Talk:Morality Guide (Mass Effect 2)/Archive1

This article is under construction and will take a while to be finished. It is intended to be precise, so please don't add assumed or unconfirmed triggers.--Karstedt 05:53, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Class Talent Bonuses
Just wondering... are these scores taking into account the bonus your class talent gives you? Matt 2108 03:48, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Class bonuses give bonuses to your overall paragon and renegade scores. The effects are noticeable when allocating ranks. They do not affect the rate at which they're acquired. I've played the game across multiple classes, and the paragon and renegade points are always the same, as in the screen always shows a +2 Paragon or whatever, whether as a soldier or as infiltrator. &mdash;Seburo 08:15, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup, the number of points shown is always the same regardless of if your bonus is 0% or 100%. In reality, I imagine you are actually getting (stated number)*(100+bonus)% points. Nialia 03:49, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Morality points before load screen
There's quite a few places where you have a conversation with someone that gives morality points right before a load screen, and you never get to see how many points you got (except that your Paragon or Renegade bar in the Squad screen goes up slightly). Any idea how to get info for these situations? Nialia 10:13, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm no expert, but perhaps there's a utility to examine savegames for the paragon/renegade levels (in numbers?), in which case we could compare the levels from a savegame before and after the load screen. It would be time-consuming work, but possible. Apart from this, and again I'm no expert, but surely there is a place in the ME2 game files that contains the coding for renegade or paragon points, although it may be difficult to access. If all this fails, manual examination of the bar and an estimation based on the usual points given (i.e. 2 or 5 points) is probably our best chance. Bronzey 08:08, February 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * You have to edit the Coalesced.ini file and add keybinds to "setparagon 0" and "setrenegade 0". Then you can save before the conversation, use the keybind and after the conversation you can use the keybind again and it will show how many points were deducted to set you to 0. There are two editor out there that can modify this file without making it cause a crash. You can get them here and here. You can also just go for the pre-made cheat ready file here.--Karstedt 10:40, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's fantastic! I don't have the PC version myself, but perhaps somebody could do this for the occasions where loading screens disrupt normal viewing of Paragon/Renegade points earned. It would be very time consuming, though extremely useful. Bronzey 12:02, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Thanks, that's good to know. Just got it working in game, so I might look at adding info for those conversations at some point in the future. Nialia 12:15, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Drink Kiosk near Conrad Verner
When buying drinks from the Drink Kiosk near Conrad, the notification icon shows a paragon or renegade symbol, which seems to depend on how you treated Conrad. I'm not sure if there are any side effects as a result of this. Nialia 23:48, February 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I notest this too, but I think it's a joke from Bioware. The renegade symbol is when you choose a shot of liquor, implying that this's the drink of the badass; the paragon appears when you order a wine, implying this is the drink of the sensitive and soft. :D Brfritos 04:24, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Simultaneous Paragon/Renegade points; and 'undeclared points'
I'm just curious about something I noticed in my first game, where I aimed to be solely paragon where at all possible. I was going along fine until about mid-game (on the second tier of Dossiers), where I noticed my renegade bar had climbed to approximately 10% even though I'd had no notification of receiving any Renegade points. I'm sure I didn't miss the notifications, so my only thought is that I was receiving points behind the scenes without any declaration. Also, in some situations after a long conversation or mission I would receive a large number of paragon points (say 11) and a smaller number of Renegade points (say 2 or 5), even though I hadn't chosen any renegade options in dialogue. My only conclusion is that either some options are bugged and give both paragon or renegade points; or some dialogue choices deliberately give both paragon and renegade points. Has anybody else noticed this, or am I going crazy? Bronzey 12:09, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * If you look at the guide, you'll see several places where Paragon / Renegade points are unavoidable. For example, when completing Mordin or Samara's Dossier missions you can't avoid getting 5 paragon and 5 renegade points. Also note you will only see those points if you choose to "Stay behind" instead of going directly to the Normady and not seeing the notification due to the load screen. In fact, its quite likely that all Dossier missions reward a base 5 paragon and 5 renegade points, but you don't see most of the updates because of the load screen. Additionally, a lot of side missions give you base paragon or renegade points (that are only avoidable by not completing the mission), depending on the type of quest... This annoys me a bit too, but oh well. I guess they just wanted to ensure everyone had a decent pool of Paragon and Renegade points by default. Nialia 12:20, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for the reply. I assumed something like this was the case; where renegade/paragon points were 'unavoidable' in a completed game. Still, with this handy morality guide I can attempt to minimise my depravity and evilness :) Bronzey 12:30, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Redundancy
I think most of us noticed that Paragon options is usually the one on the top half of the choices, and Renegade on the bottom half. The only time it isn't is if all the choices are just asking questions rather than choosing a reply. Having said that, the points allocated to a certain reply is always the same. For example if you take a look at the replies in "Omega: The Professor: Missing Assistant" part of this article, the points are the same for the same replies regardless of which branch you take. --Lord0din69 22:21, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Better to be complete than to omit information and have confusion or doubt about what might happen. The morality guide could be shortened a lot by just saying pick the top response in all conversations to get paragon points and the bottom response to get renegade points, but I think people would find that a lot less useful. &mdash;Seburo 23:21, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * While ME1 could be a lot more obscure about which option would lead to paragon.renegade points. ME is definitely more streamlined in respect of "top answer gives you pp, bottom answer gives you rp'. There are still plenty of situations that may or may not give you anything. So like Seburo said, better to be complete.--Karstedt 22:47, February 24, 2010 (UTC)

I think you misunderstood. I didn't say to omit the points or branch, I said to omit the redundant information. Again, giving the example from "Omega: The Professor: Missing Assistant" the choice of "Nobody needs to die." gives you +5 no matter which branch of the conversation you pick. If you pick it first or later doesn't matter, it'll give you +5 points still. Simply the points should be listed separately from the possible conversation branches. --Lord0din69 00:04, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is done because choosing certain conversation paths can result in being unable to choose others. I can't tell by looking at that one, but there may be a conversation option that will lead to you not having the choice to say "Nobody needs to die" or bypass the the options that come before it. So it's important to list some things redundantly because they may only be reachable through certain conversation paths. Generally though, if a conversation point is unavoidable, it would be listed separated with a "+" and come after any conversation options it would otherwise skip.--Karstedt 03:34, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

Again, I did not say to remove the conversation branches. I was referring to the points that is listed next to the same choices. I thought I made this clear on the second reply. For example "Nobody needs to die." is listed 3 times and they all have +5 points. Lets say hypothetically that someone found out it was not +5 points but instead +2 points. They would have to edit all three quotes. What if they only edit 1 out of the 3 redundant data listed. Not only would it be a hassle to correct errors but also leads to inconsistency. It's not that big of an issue, but you can imagine it can scale up to something worst. --Lord0din69 00:31, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think there's every more than 3 lines of redundancy, and its rare that someone would enter the wrong value as long as they've run through the conversation options enough times, so I don't think that's much of an issue. On the other hand, I have to admit there are some areas which could be (and probably should be) written a little more succinctly. The "Missing Assistant" section (which I wrote a bit lazily), for example, could become:
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * Saying "He's not my friend.", or 2 Paragon for saying "Everybody stay calm."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Let's talk this out."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]" Nialia 07:58, March 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Condensing it throws off the reader expected pattern from this bulleted list. Because each bullet represents a single choice, and the spacing is just a matter of OR and AND conditions.

Such as the OR statements are all listed on the same list or or
 * Choice 1
 * Choice 2
 * Choice 3
 * Then the indented bullets are AND statements read as

and
 * Choice 1
 * Choice 2

and
 * Choice 4

or
 * Choice 5

or
 * Choice 3

and
 * Choice 6

or
 * Choice 7

And yes, it is rather gruesome to read when the list gets long like Example 2. This is why I suggested a better way of doing it like tables.

There should be a better way to do this rather than using bullets. A state diagram would be ideal to map out the conversation paths to full detail. Another approach is just a table read top down. It'll be easier to read and maintain but won't display the dead end paths. --Lord0din69 22:04, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Example 1
For example instead of this *5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Everybody stay calm."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Let's talk this out."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * Saying "He's not my friend."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Let's talk this out."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Everybody stay calm."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Let's talk this out."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"
 * Saying "He's not my friend."
 * 5 Paragon for Charming "Nobody needs to die."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Let's talk this out."
 * 5 Renegade for Intimidating "Kill him, and you're next."
 * 5 Renegade for selecting "[Signal henchman.]"

It would look like this as a table format. You would pick one choice per row. Like I said before it wouldn't look pretty if it listed the dead end paths such as "Nobody needs to die." and "Kill him, and you're next." on the first row. If you really wanted it in, you can add it on top of the first row, and add another row saying OR. It isn't really doing the best job, but highlights the most productive paths.

It also isn't as flexible as just listing the bullet list. If lets say picking "He's not my friend." choice from row 1, would lead to a different set of choices than "Everybody stay calm.", then you'll have to do some color coding which may appear a bit more confusing to readers.

Example 2
Reaching Nassana
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Interesting idea."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "You still think it's me?"
 * If saying "No, we can't."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I met some of your workers."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're pathetic."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're delusional."
 * If saying "No, we can't."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I met some of your workers."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're pathetic."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "Is that what you think?"
 * 2 Paragon for saying "You still think it's me?"
 * If saying "No, we can't."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I met some of your workers."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're pathetic."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're delusional."
 * If saying "No, we can't."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I met some of your workers."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're pathetic."
 * (3 questions with no points)
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Bastard."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "Saving lives."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "Killing bad guys."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "We'll find a way."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "So I've heard."
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I'm sorry."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're worried about humans?"
 * 2 Paragon for saying "I'm sorry."
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're worried about humans?"
 * 2 Renegade for saying "You're worried about humans?"

Ignoring special actions in cutscenes
You know those heroic/ruthless mouse actions during cutscenes? Well for some of them if you just skip them they will open up a path to more dialog and possible points, usually for the opposite action that appeared up in the cutscene. For example the one where you encounter Mouse on the Citadel the first time. If you avoid beating him up you are allowed more Paragon dialog later. However, this is not always the case for all special actions. For example, the scene at Tuchanka while on the mission Mordin: Old Blood, skipping the ruthless action of blowing up a gas tank when a Blood Pact Krogan is yapping away will not open up any extra dialog.

tldr; So in short, don't always be too hasty in using those special actions.--Lord0din69 22:31, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes, that's why the guide lists what happens when interrupts are not used. &mdash;Seburo 23:21, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Some Missing Numbers
Really appreciate this guide and the work done on it so far so I decided to add my two cents

Dossier: The Professor


 * Convincing the Guard to let you in gives 5 of either depending on the choice

Doctor Chakwas


 * After sharing the Ice Brandy and returning you get 2 Paragon for saying you'll save humanity and 2 Renegade for saying you'll get revenge. Didnt check what you get for saying your thoughts are your own.

Etarn Tiron (Vendor on the Citadel)


 * Similar to Deleia so perhaps that is why it was left out (5 Par for endorsment, 5 Renegade for Intimidating)

Al-Jilani Interview


 * 2 Paragon for either of the top two and 2 Renegade for the bottome one. 5 Renegade for interrupt and intimidate option if interrupt not used, 5 Paragon for Charm option if interrupt not used

The debrief with TIM after freedoms progress i believe gives 5 points for 3 further responses and 2 points for another beyond what is listed so far. I picked the listed paragon option, then told TIM its good to play nice, asked him what he wasnt telling me, if it was and order and agreed with him and i recieved a total of 17 paragon points and 2 renegade points. I believe the renegade points is for saying agreed as that was in the lower part of the wheel.

Also noticed a mystery renegade bonus on the Archangel mission somewhere between zapping cathka and returning to the Normandy.

Anyways hope this helps. Im using Gibbeds save editor to check my Paragon/Renegade scores along with following the Morality guide.

-Cheers

DaGawdfadda 05:07, February 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can check your paragon/renegade points in game if you want. You have to map "setparagon 0" and "setrenegade 0" using one of the methods I described higher up in this discussion under "Morality points before load screen". Using either of those commands will display the number of points it took to reduce you to 0, giving you the number you had. Just make sure to save before using it, because lack of a proper console won't let you reverse it. Much easier than going back and forth between programs though.--Karstedt 22:55, February 24, 2010 (UTC):


 * Thanks for the tip. I've avoided messing around with the "console" in ME2 exactly because there isnt a proper one. As mentioned in a past post there are post mission paragon/renegade points. Its confirmed for all missions up to Horizon so I think its safe to assume it applies to the rest as well. Speaking of Horizon. Your discussion with Kaiden has points associated with it. I went with a Paragon route saying "Its good to see you" "I've moved on" "Cerberus is not the enemy" "I'm not a traitor" "You're too emotional" "Join me". After this when you talk to Kelly she will ask how the meeting went. Saying "Fine" ends the the topic. Saying either "It went well" or "I miss him" leads Kelly to ask if you have strong feelings for Kaiden. If you say "Are you jeleouse" ends the topic, "No" you get 2 Renegade points, if you say "That is history" or "Yes" leads Kelly to say its hard to get over people at which points saying "Thank You" gets 2 Paragon or "No It's easy" gets 2 Renegade. I assume this only applies to a female or if its Williams who is encountered on Horizon if its a male. Also on Warlord you get 2 Paragon points for saying "Will he help" upon returning to find Okeer dead right before you depart on the shuttle. I suppose you get 2 Renegade points for saying "Is he worth the trouble?". Zaeeds Loyalty mission at the end after Zaeed is hit by debris. 2 Paragon each for "Are you hurt?" "I Dont want you on my ship" or 2 Renegade each for "You deserved that" "How can I trust you". Now if you use the Charm option you pick up an additional 7 Paragon points whereas if you say "On one condtion" you only get 2 Paragon points. The third conversation with Jack is confirmed for female as well except after asking any two of tattoos, relationships, or friends and then saying talk to you later Jack asks you why and you get 2 Paragon for saying "I find you fascinating". I supposed you get 2 Renegade for the alternate. On the Citadel there are 5 Paragon/Renegade points up for grabs when doing the Krogan Sushi quest. 5 Para for "There are no fish" 5 Renegade for lying. The merchant points are also available from Marab and Kian. Crime in progress you get 5 Paragon for completing the quest and 5 Paragon for the Interrupt. --DaGawdfadda 09:10, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

ME Bonus
By my calculations an imported ME character gets a bonus of 56% of their final Paragon/Renegade bars, where the bars are rounded up to their nearest milestone. For example: 19 points for 10%, 48 for 25%, 95 for 50%, 136 for 75%, and 190 for 100%. I haven't fully tested this theory, but I can confirm that I received 136 points of Paragon for a bar that was between 50% and 75% full. --ArmeniusLOD 21:03, February 25, 2010 (UTC)\

I had 629 Paragon and got 190 on import. That's how I figure 190 is the max. You'd have to check actual numbers and not percentages to find out the exact formula, as 100% is only 324/440 and you can get more than 600. Although, if 19/48/95/136/190 are the only possible import values, then it probably is based on the bar and not number.--Karstedt 12:49, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Dossier Missions Layout
The dossier missions should probably be changed so their layout is consistent with the Loyalty Missions, etc, unless there is some good reason for them being the way they are atm?

ie:

5. Dossier Missions

____5.1 The Professor

________5.1.1 Omega : The Professor: Missing Assistant

____5.2 Archangel

________5.2.1 Omega: Archangel: Datapad Recovered

____5.3 The Convict

...

6. Loyalty Missions

... Nialia 08:07, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Garrus Loyalty
Harkin:

2 Renegade: Ouch

+

2 Paragon: Be Reasonable

+

5 Paragon Interrupt

If Interrupt not used


 * 2 Paragon: That wasn’t necessary


 * 2 Renegade: Quit Complaining

In Cab

2 Paragon: You Okay?


 * 2 Paragon: I don’t Know




 * 2 Paragon: Give me a chance




 * 2 Paragon: Do you really believe that

2 Renegade: He’s not worth it


 * 2 Paragon: You sure about this


 * 2 Paragon: Give me a chance




 * 2 Paragon: Do you really believe that


 * 2 Renegade: You bet

Sidonis

2 Paragon: [Warn Sidonis]


 * 5 Paragon Interrupt


 * 2 Paragon: [Keep Talking]


 * 15 Paragon: Don’t do it


 * 2 Paragon: You’re Lucky


 * 2 Renegade: Leave


 * 15 Renegade: [Let Garrus Shoot]


 * 15 Renegade: I can’t help you


 * 15 Renegade: [Let Garrus Shoot]

2 Renegade: [Move to the Side]


 * 2 Paragon: [Warn Sidonss]


 * 5 Paragon Interrupt


 * 2 Paragon: [Keep Talking]


 * 15 Paragon: Don’t do it


 * 2 Paragon: You’re Lucky


 * 15 Renegade: [Let Garrus Shoot]


 * 15 Renegade: I can’t help you


 * 15 Renegade: [Let Garrus Shoot]


 * 15 Renegade: [Let Garrus Shoot]

If Sidonis is Alive

2 Paragon: It’s for the best

+

2 Paragon: I understand

+

2 Paragon: Trust Your Heart

If Sidonis is Dead

2 Renegade: You done with this

Hope this is helpful

DaGawdfadda 11:19, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thane/Jack/Grunt/Jacob Loyalty
Thane:

During the Interrogation:

If you dont hit the guy a 3rd time (after Thane pulls you aside)

5 Paragon: We'll sweeten the pot

5 Renegade: You should talk to us

When talking to Bailey afterwards

2 Paragon: Thats democracy

2 Renegade: Not my problem

In the Apartment

15 Paragon: Interrupt

15 Renegade: [Kill the Hostage]

5 Paragon/5 Renegade: [Disable Kolyat]

+

2 Paragon: Thade's Dying

2 Renegade: He did this for you

You also recieve an additonal 5 Paragon and 5 Renegade for completing the mission

Jack:

Once in the cell

2 Paragon: He was drawn here like you

+

15 Paragon: Killing him changes nothing


 * 2 Paragon: Good Work

15 Renegade: Do it


 * 2 Renegade: You're free

5 Renegade: Kill Him


 * 10 Renegade Interrupt


 * 2 Paragon: Good Work

5 Paragon: Leave him alone


 * 10 Paragon Interrupt




 * 2 Paragon: Good Work

Afterwards back on the Normandy

2 Renegade: Get over yourself

+

2 Paragon: Feel like you've changed

2 Renegade: I need you functional

+

2 Paragon: I wanted to help you

2 Paragon: Its a start

2 Renegade: Deal with it

Grunt:

Speaking to Wrex

2 Paragon: Its his call

Speaken to shaman

2 Paragon: We have permission

2 Renegade: He dares stand in Grunts way

2 Renegade: I want this crap over with

+

2 Paragon: He is part of my crew

2 Renegade: We will kill for Grunt

+

5 Renegade Interrupt


 * If Interrupt not used


 * 2 Paragon: You defy the shaman


 * 2 Renegade: Do you want to die Uvenk


 * 2 Renegade: Lets get this crap going


 * What is your problem


 * 2 Paragon: You argue like an alien


 * 2 Renegade: You're fearful


 * 2 Renegade: Do you want to die Uvenk


 * 2 Renegade: Lets get this crap going

Once the trial is over you get 15 of each (you may have to kill the Maw)

2 Paragon: He's the ultimate Krogan

????????: Why hesitate now

2 Renegade: Are you here to fight

+

2 Paragon: Your call Grunt

????????: My guess grunt says no

2 Renegade: He cant join your clan

Back on the Normandy

2 Paragon: Someday itll end

2 Paragon: No shortage there

2 Renegade: I cant have you going rogue

Jacob

Talking to the Captain Taylor

(A)2 Paragon: I'm Shepard. You know Jacob

(B)2 Renegade: Never Mind. Explain Yourself


 * (a)2 Paragon: Lets her the truth


 * (b)2 Renegae: Surprised

+

(C)2 Paragon: A dacade Taylor, why?

(D)2 Renegade: Touching, but I dont buy it

+

(E)2 Paragon: We can undo the damage

(F)2 Paragon: You'll answer for this

(G)2 Renegade: Tempting, but taken to far

+

(H)15 Paragon: He cant escape the law now

(I)5 Paragon/5 Renegade: Leave him in the hell he made

(J)15 Renegade: Id shoot him

DaGawdfadda 11:43, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Anonymus (on PC): I just did the Jacob-Loyalty-Mission and did the Dialog (see above) in two ways. (ACEH) and (BaCEH). Checking with the Gibbed-Editor I got exactly the right results. I assume that the upper Dialoginformation is correct also other dialog choices should be confirmed by other players. If my info was helpfull, I may also check other of the above dialogs. Maybe the Jacob-father-dialog could already be added to the Main (Jacob: The Gift of Greatness).


 * I tested the other options and added the info to the main page. --m.harmless 01:48, March 8, 2011 (UTC)

Finale
Somebody correct me if I'm wrong. I tried looking for the info but I couldn't find it (it may be just because I'm sleepy and tired) but it seems that the final decision to destroy the Collector base or to keep it and hand it over to Cerberus grants Paragon and Renegade points respectively, I believe, but I don't know how many. I think it should be included, if that's the case. (I'd do it myself, but as I said, I'm not entirely sure of how many points each decision awards, or if they do award any, in fact, though I seem to remember that they do). Can someone confirm? Rath101 11:39, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Missing Romance & Finale Conversation Points
Theres several romance & finale conversation branches that gives some points. I couldn't find any mention of it in this guide. Such as Mordin sex advice, and Jacob's chat about the suicide mission. --Lord0din69 03:24, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Possible correction
Miranda's Loyalty Mission, Prodigal. Acquiring the mission from Miranda, it says 2 paragon for "Of course.", which works, but then it says 2 renegade for "Get to the point.". I have not been able to get the option to say "Get to the point." via any dialogue path, nor any other way to gain 2 renegade points. It should be noted that that option DOES appear (and it does give 2 renegade) while acquiring Jacob's loyalty mission. I'm guessing there was confusion there. I would just correct it myself, but maybe it only appears if you're playing a female Shepard or something, so thought I'd give whoever put that in the opportunity to clarify matters. If no one responds within a week or two, I'll try to remember to fix it myself. EDIT: Another possible correction: Answering "I won't do this" at the start of Liara's Observer quest does not give 2 paragon points, as far as I can tell. Qwinn 16:28, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

I added the Miranda conversation. When I originally added it did not include the renegade option (I checked the article history to make sure). It was added recently in revision 96511 by an unregistered user.

I also added the Liara quest. And again, when I originally added it, it did not include the "I won't do this" line. It was also added recently in revision 95204 by a different unregistered user.

I'm certain I checked both of these conversations thoroughly before I added them, so go ahead and remove those lines. Nialia 09:52, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

New formatting, specifically the spelling out of "plus"
I appreciate the new coloring of Paragon and Renegade, but in my opinion having "plus" spelled makes the map harder to read. Seeing the whole word with a bunch of phrases around it makes it hard to focus in a particular chunk of conversation. Simply having the symbol there makes it easier for your mind to separate the branches. I think it should be changed back to "+" and I would like to get an idea of what everyone else thinks. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 05:28, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

I agree that + is better than "plus", although I don't think it makes too much difference - "plus" is a short enough word. Personally, I strongly dislike the colors (the old ones weren't great either, but I do think they were better than the current ones), especially the new "pale" red. Nialia 09:31, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't mind so much the pale red, but I really don't like the green for Paragon. If the color was a paler blue, like the color of links, I think it would look better. Specifically, the code 66CCFF, like this . Also, the more I look at it, the less the spelling of "plus" makes my eyes unable to focus. I guess it's because I'm getting used to it. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 20:48, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not wedded to any particular colour but I'd have to strongly discourage using the same colour as the default for links: that's a recipe for confusion and frustration. (I also don't think that a plain html "blue" is a good idea because it does not show up well. FWIW, The colours used were taken from the Commander Shepard page. I don't know who chose them originally, but I assume that they match some in-game colours.) I also don't really mind whether plus is spelled out in full or not; my main goal was to move the indicator out of the first column (where it tended to blend visually with the bullets glyphs themselves). I felt that once moved, they lost visual impact since they are relatively small, light glyphs, so I spelled "plus" out in full. --DRY 21:35, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * That makes sense. The colors are more of an aesthetic choice, and they are definitely easier to read than the darker ones used previously. Looking back at previous revisions actually makes me realize that having plus spelled out makes it quicker to recognize, even though my eyes are still floating around a bit. I guess it was just the shock of seeing sweeping changes to a page I look at all the time. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 22:14, March 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Do feel free to make improvements to the colours and formatting; as I intimated, my choices were fairly arbitrary. (I would stay away from low contrast colours and any colours which might be mistaken for active elements like links, though.) --DRY 22:50, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Future additions to article
Just wondering what can be done to improve this article, or if it's still a work in progress. The only additions I can think of are totals of paragon/renegade for the game (as in the ME Morality Guide) and perhaps a total of 'forced' paragon and renegade points as well (i.e. there are some situations where you get both no matter what your actions). Other than that it's a great resource to have and kudos to all the people who've spent so much time researching the trigger points. Bronzey 11:03, April 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are still points missing, like at the end of some missions and the romance conversation with Garrus as a female. The points you get at the end of a mission are a pain to test because you need to note how many points you have before the final conversation, how many points you get from any conversation after the mission is over, and then subtract your morality to calculate the difference.  This is all done one PC, of course.  --ArmeniusLOD 09:02, July 2, 2010 (UTC)

Kasumi
Ending: All I know so far is the following conversation branches:
 * "Keep the graybox."
 * "It's what he wants."
 * "Let me do it."
 * "Do it."
 * "Destroy the graybox."

"Keep the graybox." results in zero paragon or renegade points, and of course she keeps the box. The latest savable point before this conversation is before a very lengthy battle, making it a pain to research all the branches. So basically this is missing the point results for the middle and lower options.

BuddyPharaoh 08:47, April 11, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty: Miranda error?
The very end of the section says you get 2 Paragon for "It's nice to see you smile." I got no such option on my playthrough - I asked about Oriana, asked about Niket, and tried 1-2 of the "investigate" options after Oriana, then "I'm glad I could help", and it's over. This playthrough I was female; is it possible that this is a male-only option? BuddyPharaoh 01:12, April 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * That looks likely, I saw the smiling option with a male playthrough. Did you encourage her to contact Oriana? It may be that this is required for the dialogue Bronzey 07:26, April 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yep; I was doing this playthrough with maximizing both paragon and renegade scores in mind, and at this point, I was a bit behind in paragon. I'm going to edit that section. BuddyPharaoh 22:45, April 15, 2010 (UTC)

Full paragon and renegade
Does anyone know if one can fill both faders with Paragon and Renegade?

I tried my best, importing a character that had full both, gave me 192 each, basically starting me at one full bar. I tried to play Paragon for the first part, but once it reached about 90% I started pumping Renegade. I also tried to not kill gameplay, such as leavig Legion out. Also, I had to pick Morinth because my Paragon was already pegged at 100 percent.

Best I could manage was 100% paragon and about 80 plus change Renegade. Also, I maxed Paragon so some points went to waste. I'm assuming it's doable with no cheating. Can anyone confirm? Is it already listed somewhere? If not, maybe this should get added?

Mordin's loyalty-Paragon points in Renegade Interrupt?
I checked the guide to see if this was mentioned, or if there is another explanation, but while the ever long Renegade interrupt with the Clanspeaker, I noticed, thanks to another site, that if you use it in the last sentence he says before "Attack!", you get Paragon Points. Is this normal in this case, or did the Paragon points come from other place that isn't mentioned? Lloydsd 02:36, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably came from earlier in the conversation. If you say "No one else has to die" and "Why not try diplomacy?" you will get Paragon.  &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 05:40, June 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * It may be one of those cases where you get both Paragon points (for your dialogue) and Renegade points (for your interrupt). Sometimes you get the Paragon points first, and sometimes you get the Renegade points first.  It's weird. Dracosummoner 02:00, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

How exactly does the charm and intimidate system work?
I know it's about percentages, or something along those lines, but how exactly does it work?

Say I have 100 points total if I add both sides, out of which 80 are paragon and 20 are renegade. Let's also say I only made four decisions that gave paragon points, but that each gave 20 points. Also, I made six choices that gave renegade points, which gave a total of 20 points. Now, if I were to use a blue charm reply, would I have an 80% paragon "score", from the 80 out of 100 points? Or would I have a 40% paragon "score", since I got paragon points four times out of the total ten times I got either kind of points, regardless of how many points I actually got?

I know the blue/red charm/intimidation replies become available based on some sort of percentage, but which one is it? I'd really for someone to explain this in detail. Mehbah 00:36, August 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm no expert, but I'm 90% certain that it's the percentage of the Paragon/Renegade meter filled, as in, if you have both Paragon and Renegade maxed out, than every blue and red choice will be unlocked. On the flip side, if you have 2 Paragon and 0 Renegade (impossible through normal play, just giving a low number example), I'm fairly sure that none of the red or blue options would be available, as while you have 100% Paragon by comparison, you have effectively 0% of the Paragon meter filled, and literally 0% of the Renegade meter filled.98.110.54.74 02:12, August 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, that's not how it works. Bioware has said it has to do with percentages. I don't have a link to the forum post where they said it, so it would be nice if someone could post that. What I'm asking is what percentages the game uses. Mehbah 14:25, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm fairly certain that it only judges percentage of a given bar filled, Paragon points wont increase the required Renegade points for a choice and vice versa. Various parts of the wiki refer to needing a high number of Paragon or Renegade points in order to select a choice, such as breaking up the fight between Miranda and Jack. DuskOfTwilight 06:09, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * To clarify, I don't think it's percentage of total points (80 Paragon out of 100 points total = 80% Paragon), I think it's percentage of the bar filled (100 Paragon out of 1000 max = 10% Paragon).DuskOfTwilight 07:01, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found a link to a thread that proves it's about percentages. Not only that, but it clarifies that it's about points, and not even about one side's points compared to your total points; it's about one side's points compared to the total amount of points you could have gotten for that side from every area you've visited. Now, ignoring that this is a horrible system that punishes you for not sticking to one side like glue, this seems like something that should be noted somewhere in the article. Or am I wrong? Mehbah 12:24, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It should be mentioned on the main Morality page for sure, but this page is just a guide for what conversations give how many morality points. DuskOfTwilight 16:00, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Same playthrough, different morality amount?
I had this yesterday - I was replaying Tali's loyalty mission (loaded a save), and replayed it exactly the same way as before. I was going for the Rally the crowd option, because I didn't have enough Paragon for a Charm option during the actual playthrough. I talked to everyone, explored all options, then, later, used the same options as always, plus Paragon interrupt - like I always do. Then, when I returned to the trial, the Charm option was somehow available! I was sure there was no way I'd get enough Paragon for the option, because on that playthrough, I was doing the mission quite early. But the weird thing is, it happened when I reloaded the save and replayed. What could it be? --Kiadony 06:49, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The mechanics of charm/intimidate are complicated, but I had heard somewhere it has more to do with the ratio of paragon points you've actually gained versus the amount of available points so far in that playthrough - it doesn't necessarily rely on the total number of acquired points. This is necessary so that you can access charm/intimidate options at pretty much any point in the game (if you're following a certain path, obviously). I'm probably wrong, but that's what I've been led to believe. Bronzey 02:34, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Normandy Conversations \ Tali \ Fourth Conversation
What is this supposed to mean:

"If male or female (confirmed)"

(a) If male, unconfirmed; if female, confirmed... or (b) If either male or female, confirmed...

?

If (a), why isn't is worded better; if (b), why is it even there? Rtl42 03:10, November 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it means that you get this conversation if you are a male, then it was unsure if you get it as a female Shepard as well. So someone checked it and confirmed you do get it as a female Shepard as well becuase unless the person is a romance option, you usually only get three conversations, I think. Lancer1289 04:00, November 21, 2010 (UTC)

Question/Suggestion about the ordering of the sections
I was just curious: why is the guide ordered the way it is? I know that there's a degree of non-linearity to the way the player is allowed to complete assignments and dossier missions, but unless we are assuming that everyone uses the "Early Recruitment" mod (which we shouldn't, imho), I think it makes more sense to move certain sections of the morality guide to correspond with the overall layout of the Mass Effect 2 Guide (which, in turn, follows the layout of the game plot). For example, even though "Stop the Collectors" is the overarching game "mission", it makes more sense to put the first four dossier missions (Archangel, The Professor, The Convict, The Warlord) right after Freedom's Progress, then make something like "Stop the Collectors: Horizon", then continue with the remaining dossiers, etc. I actually wouldn't think it a bad idea to have the Omega stuff between Freedom's Progress and the first 4 dossiers, and perhaps some of the Normandy Conversations stuff can be shuffled around accordingly, but that's a lower priority compared to my main question/suggestion, for the moment. I would personally like to change the guide's flow, but since I'm quite new around here, I wanted to ask first and see why it was made the way it is. Rtl42 14:30, November 24, 2010 (UTC)

I also am fairly new, but this sounds like a good solid idea. DeloreanFanatic 08:42, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Thane: Sins of the Father \ Thane on the Normandy
How do you trigger this conversation? I completed the quest and gained Thane's loyalty (following a strictly Paragon path), but when I went back to the Normandy and talked to Thane in Life Support, I got his 2nd conversation (from the Normandy Conversations section), instead. In case it's relevant, I'm playing a male Shephard. Rtl42 16:27, December 1, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect 1 morality guide?
Is it possible for a Mass Effect 1 Morality guide to be made? This guide for Mass Effect 2 is wonderful and it would be great if we could do the same for the first game.

Thanks!!DeloreanFanatic 08:40, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * One already exists for Mass Effect: Mass Effect Morality Guide. I don't know about this game called Mass Effect 1 though. I've never heard of it. Lancer1289 08:46, February 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Don't be so stuck up with this "oh i've never heard of this mass effect 1 game". if there's a game called "mass effect 2", there are gonna be people who call the first iteration "mass effect 1", whether it's officially called that or not. just let it be, you're not impressing anyone. Rtl42 09:03, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * And outbursts like that are? I can tell you, I'm never impressed by little fits or insulting jabs like "Don't be so stuck up". Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one should be belittled for expressing themselves constructively. Lancer was expressing a valid concern (as it would be unfortunate if someone were to see this and create an article entitled 'Mass Effect 1 Morality Guide' or 'Morality Guide (Mass Effect 1)' in the mistaken belief that Mass Effect 1 is an acceptable term for use in articles. It's happened before.) so there was really no reason to go off on him. SpartHawg948 10:40, February 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Who's having an outburst? If anything, I'm being constructive by calling him out.  I mean really, look at what he wrote -- it stopped being helpful after, "One already exists for Mass Effect: (link)."  But if there's a valid concern about nomenclature, then just say it nicely: "BTW, we avoid saying 'Mass Effect 1', for consistency's sake / because it's not the official name, when referring to the first game."  Rtl42 10:54, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * And being extremely rude in the process and insulting me as well, which is against the Community Guidelines. There was no need for that and frankly your conduct responding to something was inappropriate and uncalled for. Lancer1289 17:57, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I termed it an outburst because there really was nothing helpful in your comment. Not one thing. You may deem it constructive, but I'd disagree, as anything worded so antagonistically can only serve to escalate a situation, not deescalate it. If there was a valid concern about behavior, the right way to go about it would be to just say it nicely: "I'm sure that the previous user was unaware that there have been issues before with people referring to the game as Mass Effect 1. Perhaps in the future simply pointing out the reasons we don't use the term would suffice?" But instead, the comment you left was deliberately goading and antagonistic, calling another user "stuck up". This is not constructive or helpful. If your desire is to further constructive discussion, a great way to start would be to engage in constructive discussion yourself. And insulting other users and using inflammatory language is not constructive. SpartHawg948 19:25, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Wow...I didn't know that I would cause such a ruckus. Thanks Lancer for answering my question! DeloreanFanatic 20:12, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's all good. You didn't really cause it, so don't worry about anyone blaming you or anything. All you did was ask a question. And your question was answered, which is the important thing. Oh, and in an aside... love the user name. I'm assuming that you're a fanatic about the car though, and not about the nose-candy loving designer of the car! :P SpartHawg948 20:24, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Uh...yeah XD I have always loved the car and I WILL own one someday! DeloreanFanatic 20:32, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Awesome. Awesome to the max. I actually have the same goal. They are pretty darn sweet, with the stainless steel and the gull wing doors. SpartHawg948 20:39, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Catching up with Jack on Purgatory
I noticed that there was no information on the morality point awards during the conversation with Jack before leaving Purgatory. As it is not possible to save right before the conversation, retrying different dialogue options is quite tedious (you have to fight the boss battle again and again). Also, since the conversation leads directly to a loading screen, there is no in game information on how many Paragon/Renegade points are received.

However, using Gibbeds Save Game Editor, I was able to determine that the following dialogue options lead to a total of 9 and 13  Points:


 * "You're welcome." (presumably )
 * "To rescue you." (presumably )
 * "Being my enemy is unhealthy." (presumably )
 * "Yes." (presumably )
 * "Maybe we should." (presumably )
 * "You don't have to bargain" (presumably )
 * "Yes." (presumably )

Maybe together with other player's experiences this can help to figure out the exact numbers for the different diaglogue options?

--M.harmless 01:58, February 20, 2011 (UTC)

Further thoughts:


 * I assume that the usual +5 Paragon and +5 Renegade points are awarded for mission completion (as it is the case with all the other dossier missions).


 * It's also likely that all dialogue choices give either +2P or +2R or no morality points.

Based on these assumptions, this is my hypothesis:

There are six times during the conversation where you can make dialogue choices, I called these A, B, C, D, E and F. At each instance I assigned the letters a, b and c to the three choices on the left side of the wheel (a being the top choice and c the bottom choice) and the numbers 1, 2 and 3 to the three choices on the right (1 being the topmost choice and 3 the one on the bottom).

A.

(c) You're welcome. (does not move the conversation forward) => presumably +2R

(1) To rescue you. => presumably +2P

(2) I'm Commander Shepard. => presumably no morality points

B.

(b) So what? => ?

(c) Being my enemy is unhealthy. (moves the conversation forward) => presumably +2R

(1) I'm not your enemy. => presumably +2P

(2) I don't work for them. => ?

C.

(2) Look at your options. => ?

(3) Yes. => presumably +2R

D.

(2) No. => presumably +2P

(3) Maybe we should. => presumably +2R

E.

(1) You don't have to bargain. => presumably +2P

(2) What do you want. => ?

F.

(2) Yes. => presumably no morality points

(3) [BLUFF] Ok. => presumably +2R

I have not confirmed any of these assumptions yet, they are based on all the information I have gathered so far and the data from other similar conversations (i.e. end mission dialogue scenes). I'm planing to play to the boss battle again a couple of times to hopefully get confirmation soon, but if anyone can help to confirm or deny anything or can fill the gaps, please post it here, thanks! --m.harmless 12:54, March 8, 2011 (UTC)

Dossier: The Warlord - inaccurate information?
In the Dossier: The Warlord section of the guide it says: "Note: When accessing the terminal after the fight, if you bring Mordin, either response to him nets you +5 Renegade, as well."

Since this was added before the information about Paragon/Renagade point gain during the conversation after activating the console next to Grunt's tank was included in the guide, I have a feeling this might be inaccurate. I didn't bring Mordin, so I cannot say for sure. I can confirm that either dialogue option results in at least 5 Renegade points, when you have Jack and Kasumi in your squad (either +5R/+7P or +7R/+5P). I assume it will be the same, when you bring Mordin. Can anyone confirm or deny this? --M.harmless 16:58, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Anonymus (on PC): I had Miranda and Mordin with me. The Dialog with "He's hard to pass up." NEVER showed up for me when activating the console near Grunt, only the Dialog with Mordin, with two Options. Must be confirmed by other players.
 * Judging from your experiences and from a youtube video I found, it seems that when you bring Mordin, the dialogue options are different. The questions is whether or not the morality point rewards are also different. If anyone is playing on PC and has a save game with Mordin near that point in the game, maybe he or she could try this out. (since they morality points don't show up on screen, you'll need Gibbed's Save Game Editor to compare the Paragon/Rengade values)
 * --M.harmless 18:50, February 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * P.S. @Anonymus: It has been brought to my attention, that my putting of indentations in your comment is not considered appropriate behaviour. It was not my intention to alter your comment in any way but to establish better readability. No offence intended! --M.harmless 22:47, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Anonymus (on PC): Hello, I downloaded the Gibbed-Editor you mentioned, loading a savegame exactly before accessing the console near Grunt, having Miranda and Mordin with me. The Editor showes me having 1032/245 Paragon/Renegade-Points. I accessed the console and first Miranda was talking, then Mordin. There were two Options for me to select (Right-mid, Right-Lower). I selected the Right-mid-Option. Back on the Ship I used both Paragon-Options while talking, giving me +4 Paragon (confirmed Onscreen). I than saved normaly and loaded this savegame in the Savegame-Editor. I got 1043/250 Paragon/Renegade-Points. As mentioned above the Dialog with "He's hard to pass up." and "Is he worth the headache?" never showed up for me. Hope that helps to figure out whats up. Excuse my bad english ;)


 * Hey there and thanks for the effort! This does indeed help a great deal. It shows that while the actual dialogue with Mordin is different, the morality point awards are the same, or at least the one for the Paragon option (i.e. the middle right one) is.
 * If we deduct the +4 Paragon from the Normandy conversation from your total that leaves 1041/250 or +7P/+5R compared to the total values from before the conversation at the console, which is the same as for "He's hard to pass up."
 * I found that youtube clip again and I assume that you got the choices "Professional jealousy, Mordin?" and "That's my call." instead of "He's hard to pass up." and "Is he worth the headache?". Is this correct?
 * Maybe, if it's not too much to ask, you could try the lower right option "That's my call." too, if you have the time? If my assumptions are correct, then your Paragon/Renegade totals after the conversation on the Normandy (provided you once again select the 2 Paragon options) should be 1041/252.
 * Thanks again! :) --M.harmless 00:13, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S.: Your English actually seems quite good, at least from my non-native-speaker point of view ;)

Anonymus (on PC) again: Ok here my summary. In the German Version the two Dialog-Joices are "Beruflicher Neid, Mordin?" (Right-mid) and "Meine Entscheidung." (Right-lower) both fitting your above mentioned versions of "Professional jealousy, Mordin?" and "That's my call.". Before this Dialog I had 1032/245. Selecting "Professional jealousy, Mordin?", and back on Normandy "Relax, it's sealed." and "So we'll be careful." (+4 Paragon), then normaly saving and checking via editor I got 1043/250 (as written above). Selecting Right-lower option "That's my call." (the rest I did exactly the same) I got 1041/252 (which seems more Renegade).
 * Hope this helps to improve this great wiki;)


 * Hooray! Hypothesis proven! :)


 * As we already knew from your initial test, the middle right choice results in +11P/+5R, and if we deduct the 4P from the Normandy conversation that leaves +7P/+5R


 * And as expected and proven by your latest experiment, the lower right choice results in +9P/+7R, and if we deduct the 4P from the Normandy conversation that leaves +5P/+7R


 * (Judging from my experience with other missions, which have multiple dialogue choices in the final conversation before the mission complete screen, it's probably more like +2P or +2R for the respective dialogue options and +5P and +5R for completing the mission. But that's nit-picking, as the results are the same.)


 * So the morality point awards for the dialogue choices when Mordin is in your squad are the same as for the ones you get when he is not present. I will edit the main page accordingly. Danke für deine Hilfe! :) --M.harmless 11:26, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

Horizon: Conversation with Kaidan/Ashley
During the conversation with Kaidan/Ashley and presumably also the dialogue with the mechanic leading into it, a significant amount of morality points is awarded.

Since you can't save before it, it's tedious to play through multiple times, plus you have to check with the save game editor to see how many points were awarded because on the Normandy only the points gained through the conversation with the Illusive Man and Jacob will be displayed. But I have been given to understand that only specific point values should go into the guides, so I wanted to make an effort of finding out. I thought, I'd post my findings here on the talk page and maybe someone else has time to join in and help out, so we can get enough details for inclusion in the guide.

I replayed the dialogue sequences with the Mechanic and - in my case - Kaiden twice and found out the following:

1st playthrough +13 Paragon and +11 Renegade

2nd playthrough +11 Paragon and +13 Renegade

Since I always gave the same answers except once, I can conclude that you receive:


 * 2 for saying "I'm not a traitor."
 * 2 for saying "Get over it."

More to follow when I have the time.

Please feel free to post your findings here.

--M.harmless 03:09, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE:


 * 2 for saying "Don't go. Join Me."
 * 2 for saying "Fat Chance."

--M.harmless 23:22, February 23, 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE:

Getting closer to figuring it out. It seems like most missions give you +5 Paragon and +5 Renegade upon completion (regardless of the dialogue choices you make) and in addition to that, dialogue choices made at the end of a mission usually give either +2 Paragon (usually upper right choice) or +2 Renegade (usually bottom right choice) or no morality points (usually middle right choice, when there are 3 different options to choose from).

--M.harmless 02:43, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

FINAL UPDATE:

Well, that's a few hours of my life, I will not get back, but after testing each and every dialogue option, I posted my findings on the main page. Turns out, my assumptions were indeed correct. You geht +2P for all the top right options, +2R for all the bottom right options. The middle right option either give no points or sometimes also +2P/R when there are only 2 options to choose from.

--M.harmless 23:38, February 27, 2011 (UTC)

I haven't confirmed this, but I suspect that the second branch: ...is only available if Shepard is the opposite gender of the "Alliance rep", as I did not get this option when my male Shepard spoke with Kaidan. If we can have some confirmation on this, it may be of additional help to the guide. Rtl42 01:23, January 30, 2012 (UTC)
 * 2 for saying "Too much time has passed."
 * 2 for saying "I have important things to do."

Yeoman Chambers dinner talk
I got this dialog after the collector ship quest not even having started on recruiting Samara. Cambers said something about EDI saving the crew and that, if EDI would have a body, she would hug her. My male Shepard than answered that he is here for hugging, which lead to the dinner. Anonymus (on PC) only for your information.
 * And this is here why exactly? From what is in the comment, this belongs in a blog or forum post. Lancer1289 17:53, March 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think the OP is referring to the Yeoman Chambers section of the guide, and what he wrote suggests that there might be multiple conversations that can lead to the "Let's have dinner." dialogue option besides the one mentioned in the guide. Might be worth exploring here and then amending the guide according to the findings. --m.harmless 18:22, March 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Perhaps but as I said it was a bit confusing. Lancer1289 19:02, March 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Anonymus (on PC): Sorry for the confusion, I only wanted to add infos about how I got the dinner dialog. The Main currently says the dialog becomes available "(...after recruiting Samara for me)". I assume that addition can be deleted or further exploring is needed.
 * P.S. above I made another comment at the end of section "11 Thane/Jack/Grunt/Jacob Loyalty" about the Jacob loyalty mission, where at the end you have a dialog between Jacob, Shepard and Jacobs's father. Because the mission ends after this dialog the gained P/R-Points are not visible on screen. This dialog is NOT mentioned at all on the Main. I did some testing (see above) and the information about this dialog seems correct (at least for my paragon dialog choices). Maybe "Lancer1289" and "M.harmless" (Grüße;) should take a look at this missing dialog. Greetings to both of you, and thanks ;)
 * That will be something to look into however the "...after recruiting Samara for me" shouldn't have been in the article to being with. Usually that gets removed at the same time it is added, however this appears to have been overlooked. Any time "this happened to me" or some variant of that gets added usually it is removed with the explanation of it need to be brought up on the talk page first. I will remove that. Lancer1289 20:40, March 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * You had me little confused at first too, this time, Anonymus, but I got it after rereading and cross-checking with the guide page ;). As I said, now that the confusion has been cleared, I reckon this could help figuring out what triggers the "dinner dialogue". Unfortunately, I can't contribute much at the moment, since the dialogue option hasn't appeared for me yet.
 * As for the Jacob loyality mission. I haven't done that one yet either, but I will gladly check it out, once I'm there, in case in case it's still unresolved then. (It might take me a little while to get there because I might just be the world's slowest computer rpg player, partly because I tend to try out each and every option, take tons of screenshots and sometimes take extra time to check things out, that could be useful to add here, before I move on with the game :)).
 * BTW Anonymus: Have you considered signing up for an account? Makes communication easier and also makes it easier for you to track your own contributions. In any case, since you're playing the German version, if you ever find something out that can't be easily translated and/or that you would rather write about in German, feel free to leave a message on my talk page, if you want. --m.harmless 23:11, March 5, 2011 (UTC)

Missing paragon points with Liara after Lair of the Shadow Broker?
Anonymus (on PC): I saved in the Shadow Broker Base (after completing the mission) I checked my P/R-points with Gibbed-Editor and had 1880/426. I than talked with Liara (she was my romance in ME1; imported this character; Jack my current romance) and she went with me on the Normany 2. We had some talk in Shepard's cabin, I was friendly all the time, in the end talking about having family, growing old, having blue childs. We came close, but no (visible) sex. After she left, I saved again and rechecked this new savegame, having now 1888/426 P/R. This means, that I got +8 Paragon points.

Should be confirmed by other players ;)

Settling Disputes ->Tali vs. Legion is missing.
In the "Settling Disputes" region of the main, the dialog between Tali, Legion, Shepard is missing. At least I have not found it on the main. If its already there, forget what I said.


 * No, you're right, it's missing. I'm pretty sure, that it works the same way as the Jack/Miranda dispute, i.e. +15 P/R for every charm/intimidate option available, but I'll have to wait until I reach that point in the game to confirm this. Or maybe someone else can check it out. --m.harmless 21:17, March 12, 2011 (UTC)

Horizon: post mission talk with Kelly
Yesterday, I added information recording that when talking to Kelly after the mission, when I picked the "Fine" response to her asking how it went, I did not see the additional question allowing the morality-point bonuses. It just dropped into the usual "Investigate/Goodbye" choices only. I then made use of the post-mission auto-save, went back, and tried "It went well" instead of fine. At which point, I then got the "do you have feelings for her?" question.

Mass Effect 2 has a highly complex dialog engine. The fact that someone else saw the additional questions after answering "Fine", does not invalidate what I recorded. There are probably other hidden influences at play. Players need to know, that replying "Fine" may preclude them from getting those morality points.

more information: NEW ME2 game, not ME1 or ME2 import. Ashley was the person on planet, male shepard. I went for max paragon with ashley. then max paragon with ilusive man debrief. Said past relationships were "offlimits" to him. Jacob convo, "we can do this" (paragon +_11)

Plus I had some level of "relationship" with Kelly already. Maybe that's the key. If she feels "secure", she leaves it be.

I HATE the horizon mission. but Just For You, lancer, I played through the stupid thing again.

Kelly specifically asked for how it went with Ashley. Fine: "There's not much to say. the past is the past".

SAME THING HAPPENED. Exit from special line of conversation. only options left are

Letss chat. How is the crew? goodbye.

(maybe different conversations with ashley, yield a slightly different "fine" response, allowing for jealosy)

Philip Brown 17:17, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * This is why discussions are a better idea, especially when triggers, and other things, may not be known. Now, as to the issue, if this proves to be not an isolated case, then something could be worked in, but until it is proven otherwise, it could be an isolated bug, and isolated incidents, as I've explained to more than a few people, are not worth noting. I've seen many times where a bug happens to someone, yet with someone else, it doesn't. Bugs can be isolated to a single copy of the game and until it gets further verification, with both triggers, events, and in general someone else saying that they got it, working it in becomes tricky.
 * And just to point out, the "but Just For You, lancer" is needlessly inflammatory, insulting, and completely unnecessary. And a slap in the face honestly when I'm trying to have a mature discussion. Lancer1289 21:51, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Inflammatory and insulting, is you saying, "I dont care how many times you have seen it, if *I* dont see it, it doesnt exist". Mature, is saying, "A wiki is a *collaborative* effort; Therefore, contributors.. especially those who take the time to put in multiple edits, should be *trusted* to be reporting accurately". Most people who run into a small issue like this, are not going to bother reporting it. So your attitude of "ignore until someone else also reports it" is impractical. You talk about "not worth (the effort)". What effort? It's 30 seconds to write "Choosing the 'Fine' reply, may not trigger the dialog".  This hurts nothing, and will be potentially useful to at least SOME people. I've now spent over an hour of my time documenting and verifying this annoyance. How about showing some appreciation for community effort here.
 * And I see you failed to answer my question, if a bug is isolated to one copy of the game is it worth reporting? The answer to that is no. Bugs can be isolated to one version of the game and if they are, then they aren't worth mentioning. There are many times where people have reported bugs, but no one else can verify it. Bugs are tricky things and must be verified before they can be included. One person encountering them is not enough, and the implication that you proposed is nothing more or less than an insult. There are times where I haven't seen something yet it still goes in because it gets verified and there's little I can do about it. The stance of waiting until it is verified is sound because it prevents isolated incidents from being reported. I've seen on more occasions that I want to admit, people reporting bugs, and they never occur for many people. It's not "if I don't see it, then it doesn’t go in", it's we need verification for it to be included.
 * And here's a fact, people lie, and I've seen it. I've people who in your definition, make edits and they were undone because of something they missed or some other reason. Lancer1289 22:44, December 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Waitwhat? "if bugs are in one version of the game(..)they arent worth mentioning"?! They certainly are! and.. again.. i've seen examples of this on the wiki. There are mentions of (if you are on xbox, you may need to do this. but if you're on PC, then...). I find this valuable and worthwhile information. Even if that information never benefits ME PERSONALLY, I dont begrudge other people a sentance on the wiki helping them understand what the heck is going on. Philip Brown 00:57, December 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * And you've had two people, admins at that, now tell you the same thing. Bugs require verification and if it is isolated to one console, then they aren't worth mentioning. It is readily apparent to me that you never consider that a bug could even be isolated to a single playthrough or a single mission on that playthrough. Should we note those? No because they don't have verification, they might be a one time thing, or any number of possibilities. Verification, espeically on bugs, is very important to the wiki, and even if it doesn't happen to me, and this may shock you, if enough people say something, then it goes in. Your perception of how things work here is so incorrect, that I'd recommend taking some time to figure out how they work and don't just go off the deep end ever time an edit gets undone. Lancer1289 01:40, December 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Right I always save before the end of the Horizan mission so I've went and tested this (Had to fight the collectors and preo allover again and talk with Ashley) For me selecting fine adds no extra dialogue so no chance of Morality points.User:JediSpectre117 23:21, December 10, 2011 (UTC)

Prologue Missing Conversation Options
I have noticed that at certain times in the game, some of the conversation options are not available. I believe it has to do with your characters current morality, but I'll need someone else to confirm. There are also certain conversation options that still appear, but gain you no morality points.

For example, in the prologue of the game, while playing a character imported from ME1 and with a max paragon bonus, some of the conversation options on the top of the conversation wheel are gone, only the middle, bottom, and left options exist. The only specific example I can pin down is "Let's get you out of here" when talking to Wilson after rescuing him during Prologue: Awakening. I find this odd, as if you're playing a paragon character, shouldn't you be able to say things that would gain you paragon points? Why would you only be able to only say things that go against your pre-established character? Is it possible that waking up from a coma like that has a short-term effect on Shepard's personality? Or are there gameplay reasons for it?

Whatever the case, it might be worth a mention in the article if there are certain conversation options that you can't pick under certain circumstances. I found it rather confusing that I couldn't say certain things that appear in the guide, and I imagine I wouldn't be the only one. TearsOfBlood 09:46, March 3, 2012 (UTC)

Arrival DLC
I noticed the Arrival assignment morality guide was not complete (missing the conversation with the Harbinger and the debriefing on the Normandy) so I added those missing parts. One thing that struck me as odd, is that it seems you get +2 points no matter what you do. I compared the last autosave for the assignment (which is during the final escape segment) with a save right after the finishing it and noticed I only got the points after the debriefing. I ran the ending several times, to see how many points each conversation option awarded, but no matter what options are chosen, those +2 are always awarded. Can others confirm this? I tried searching for more information on other websites, but couldn't find anything.

Mordin (second meeting)
On the guide it lists 5 Paragon + 5 Renegade points on the second meeting with Mordin, but there is no explanation as to why you get these points (i.e. are they freebies or are they for interrupts, etc...)

Not sure if there was something here at one point and it got deleted, or if this was how it was originally written. However it seems like there should be something here.
 * They are automatically rewarded for completing the mission (in this case, restarting the fans and disseminating the cure). Most of the missions have points awarded like this, but they are usually given after the completion of the entire mission. Trandra 18:21, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Redundant Info : Mordin's Loyalty Mission
I just notice there is redundant information on his section. There is a bullet point "Sick Krogan" which is the same event as the Mordin: Old Blood: Missing Scout. --N7Legion 20:50, April 7, 2012 (UTC)

Could the person who truncated the contents-tree in the Mass Effect 2 Morality guide please undo those changes so that one could jump directly to the conversation one wants to view?

meaning going back from this form (linebreaks omitted):

Contents [hide] 1 Background and Psych Profile 2 Prologue: Awakening 3 Freedom's Progress 4 Stop the Collectors 5 Dossier Missions 6 Loyalty Missions 7 Normandy Conversations 8 Other Missions 9 Other Assignments 10 Other Interactions

to this one (linebreaks omitted):

Contents 1 Background and Psych Profile 2 Prologue: Awakening 3 Freedom's Progress 4 Stop the Collectors 4.1 Horizon 4.2 Collector Ship 4.3 Reaper IFF 4.4 Collector Base 5 Dossier Missions 5.1 Dossier: Archangel 5.2 Dossier: Tali 5.3 Dossier: The Assassin 5.3.1 Illium: The Assassin: Salarian Family Data 5.4 Dossier: The Convict 5.5 Dossier: The Justicar 5.5.1 Illium: The Justicar: Smuggling Evidence 5.5.2 Illium: The Justicar: Stolen Goods Found 5.6 Dossier: The Master Thief 5.7 Dossier: The Professor 5.7.1 Omega: The Professor: Missing Assistant 5.8 Dossier: The Veteran 5.9 Dossier: The Warlord → Dr. Okeer's Legacy 6 Loyalty Missions 6.1 Garrus: Eye for an Eye 6.2 Grunt: Rite of Passage 6.3 Jack: Subject Zero 6.4 Jacob: The Gift of Greatness 6.5 Kasumi: Stealing Memory 6.6 Legion: A House Divided 6.7 Miranda: The Prodigal 6.7.1 Illium: The Prodigal: Lost Locket Found 6.8 Mordin: Old Blood 6.8.1 Tuchanka: Old Blood: Missing Scout 6.9 Samara: The Ardat-Yakshi 6.10 Tali: Treason 6.11 Thane: Sins of the Father 6.12 Zaeed: The Price of Revenge 6.13 Settling Disputes 6.13.1 Jack vs. Miranda 6.13.2 Tali vs. Legion 7 Normandy Conversations 7.1 Doctor Chakwas 7.2 Engineers Donnelly and Daniels 7.3 Garrus 7.4 Grunt 7.5 Jack 7.6 Jacob 7.7 Legion 7.8 Miranda 7.9 Mordin 7.10 Samara 7.11 Tali 7.12 Thane 7.13 Yeoman Chambers → Kelly 8 Other Missions 8.1 Illium: Liara T'Soni → Illium: Liara: The Observer 8.2 Lair of the Shadow Broker 8.3 Omega: Aria T'Loak 9 Other Assignments 9.1 Arrival 9.2 Citadel: Crime in Progress 9.3 Citadel: False Positives 9.4 Citadel: Krogan Sushi 9.5 Illium: A Troublemaker → Illium: Conrad Verner 9.6 Illium: Blue Rose of Illium 9.7 Illium: Gianna Parasini 9.8 Illium: Indentured Service 9.9 Illium: Medical Scans 9.10 Normandy: Serrice Ice Brandy 9.11 Omega: Batarian Bartender 9.12 Omega: Packages for Ish 9.13 Omega: Struggling Quarian 9.14 Omega: The Patriarch 10 Other Interactions 10.1 Citadel: Deleia Sanassi 10.2 Citadel: Etarn Tiron 10.3 Citadel: Khalisah Al-Jilani 10.4 Citadel: Kian Louros 10.5 Citadel: Marab 10.6 Illium: Asari 10.7 Illium: Hermia 10.8 Omega: Aria T'Loak 10.9 Omega: Fist 10.10 Omega: Kylan 10.11 Omega: Marsh

the old one may be a little bit overflowing with information but it makes navigation a lot less of a pain in the ass (when you're going from one crewmate to another for example) and when someone doesn't like it there is always the "hide" button.

89.68.167.88 14:35, December 1, 2012 (UTC)R.A.F.

Missing Paragon points with autosave
I noticed that autosaves made during a mission lose some of the paragon points (maybe also the renegade ones, but I'm maximizing paragon) earned during the mission. I report a particular case as example: take the miranda loyalty mission, I save manually just before speaking to Lanteia but during the mission I rely only on autosave for reloading when Shepard die. At the end of the mission, I compared, using gibbed editor, the manual save and the autosave and I had earned only 15 paragon points (that coincide with pushing Miranda into speaking to her sister, but I don't know). That happened also with other missions. Anyway, if I redo the mission relying only on manual save, I get the expected number of points. I'm curious to know if this happened to somebody else. Another question: i dont get the paragon option with the asari that slaps Shepard, just the center and lower (renegade) option. I've a female paragon Shepard, maybe it have to be male? Or is there some other prerequisite? (I corrected the Conrad bug with the editor, indeed the Conrad dialog is as expected). Thanks--Littlec (talk) 19:37, February 16, 2013 (UTC)

Mordin's Assistant Daniel
When saving Daniel from the Batarians there are a Paragon and Renegade option to convince the Batarians to spare Daniel's life. I went for Renegade and received 5 Renegade Points, probably similar when going for Paragon.
 * It's not in the guide. Maybe it is left out for a reason, that's why I didn't add it right away


 * Not sure if you're an idiot or you just like to post first before actually reading pages (which does not really dispel the previous thought) but what you're seeking is already covered in the page years and years ago.

Morality_Guide_(Mass_Effect_2) 176.31.226.184 16:02, May 3, 2013 (UTC)


 * My apologies. However, there are two reasons for me not having seen that entry.
 * 1. I followed the morality guide choronolically. I went through the mission and for some reason, the entry for his assistant (which you kindly linked for me) is situated after the entries for speaking with Mordin just about that very assistant and his survival.
 * 2. I searched the page for 'Daniel', since pretty much everyone else (including NPCs who only drive you to places) are called by their names.
 * Thank you nonetheless for clearing that up for me.

Overlord
Shouldn't we add info about Overlord here? Assuming it gives points.--Mike Gilbert 21:24, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

There are no morality points available in Overlord. Jbusnengo (talk) 21:28, May 25, 2013 (UTC) Really?--Mike Gilbert 21:29, May 25, 2013 (UTC)

Feel free to check for yourself. Jbusnengo (talk) 21:30, May 25, 2013 (UTC)