User talk:SpartHawg948

Pluto/Ganymede
While I found it slightly difficult to find a map that includes the surface of Pluto shown in the picture on the Pluto article. I did manage to find one. If you look in the picture of Pluto on the article on the Mass Effect wiki, the top half on the right, closer to the dark side of the body shows a pretty distinctive white "burst" looking coloration. Another distinctive feature, a large brown coloration in the lower left hand corner of the body is also visible. Both of these features are visible from this |this link. This is a full-body map of Jupiter's moon Ganymede. About a third of the way across the map on the left, the "burst" formation can be seen diagonally across from a white "eye" looking structure. The brown coloration can also be seen just below and to the left of that. Obviously in the map, it shows that Ganymede is actually mostly whites and greys but this does not change the map. Here is your link proving that images of Ganymede were used for the surface of Pluto. Vanguard15 15:49, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I don't know how many times that Spart and myself have said it by now, visual comparisons are not enough to justify trivia or anything else. Especially with something like this, we need an official source that it is Ganymede before we can call it trivia, not just a visual comparison and nothing more. We get an official source then I'm sure Spart will agree that is fine, but since the entire thing is based on a visual comparison, then no. 16:25, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't ask for an image of the surface of Ganymede. I can find that myself. I asked for a source to support your claim that BioWare used images of Ganymede to depict Pluto. This means a source (a legitimate one) that states explicitly that BioWare used images of Ganymede to depict Pluto. The image you provided isn't even the same one purportedly used to depict Pluto. A visual comparison is what is known as 'original research', and original research is not admissible as solid fact. Find a source, and the info can go back on the page. SpartHawg948 16:37, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Apologies
Hello. I'm writing to apologise for our little edit war which you blocked me for two weeks ago, don't know if you remember. The fact was, I didn't realise you and Lancer1289 were sending me those messages explaining why what I was doing was wrong and so I just got worked up, which I shouldn't have, so I do apologise; I wasn't trying to cause trouble. I was also tired and moody at the time because of a sore throat which only further impaired my will to stop editing and think for a minute. So anyway, sorry about that and if you wouldn't mind, pass on the message to Lancer1289.

Please respond to this so I know we can be on good terms with each other.

P.S. I would like to make a suggestion that alterations be made to the way messages are delivered so they become more noticeable whilst on site, perhaps an audio cue?

92.12.93.144 19:26, July 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oooohhh... coming from someone who gets all sorts of messages on a daily basis, I in no way can support an audio cue. That would drive me mad. The black bar at the top of the screen seems to suffice, and as far as I know, we don't change those in-house, as I'm pretty sure we weren't involved when it changed from an orange to a black bar. I'm not honestly sure what edit war is referred to here, as the IP used to leave the message has no messages, and the first contribution by it appears to be leaving this message. So, since I'm not sure what is being referred to, I can't really hold a grudge, can I? :P I'm not one for grudges anyways. Barring personal attacks or other such behavior (such as the time a user said they would kill me, or the time a user called me an intolerant 'fag' because they dislike my political beliefs... now there's an oxymoron, being called intolerant by someone who uses homophobic language towards someone who has different opinions), we should be good to go! :) SpartHawg948 22:01, July 28, 2010 (UTC)

Retribution Summary
Hey, sorry if I made some mistakes in typing out that summary. But you may have noticed that I just typed out almost an entire article summary in a short time and therefore would appreciate cuting back on the whole "THIS ARTICLE IS IN DESPERATE NEED OF CLEANUP ASAP" type of remarks because thats pretty much borderline rude...and yes I did recognize my mistakes in capitalizing alien species names, but it was a very swift effort to get all of it typed out, so again I apologize, but I don't see the need to get on my back about helping get the storyline out there.McDarkness 22:49, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. Really? You accuse me of getting 'on [your] back' by simply trying to prevent errors of this sort in the future, and I'm the one being borderline rude? You must be joking. I used all caps to call attention to the article, because it does need a cleanup very soon, and as noted, I can't really do it, as I haven't read the book yet. You didn't make 'some' mistakes. You made a lot of mistakes. Obvious ones. That's why I left the message I did, and why I left the edit summary I did. And please, don't attempt to justify it by saying you were just trying to get it up fast. You're talking to a Non-Commissioned Officer in the USAF here. Our mantra is "Don't do it fast, do it right". At best, doing it fast means you have to go back and do it twice. At worst (in my line of work, anyways) doing it fast gets people killed. Please don't come onto my talk page using such language to accuse me of being rude. On your back indeed. SpartHawg948 22:58, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well in all fairness, wikipedia edits don't usually cause casualties, so I don't think anyone will be killed (haha). But look, that summary does need edits, alot of them, and I only typed that last part in because when you did that initial edit it somehow made that part get deleted, so I simply retyped it back in. Besides, borderline rude is not technically meant as an insult, just in reaction to your reaction which seemed alittle over the top in my opinion. You seem to take little things really personally, which isn't a bad thing, just I don't really understand why your impling that I'm being rude to you. Only trying to say that I appreciate your help in correcting this summary, but it did seem alittle over the top during the "Desperate need" (not really sure why you had to point out my mistakes in that manner). And I guess I'll simply stop editing that right where I left off since I don't feel welcome anymore, since apparently editing is rude on my part, even though I could just be misinterpreting your latest edit summary. But in the very least I hope we get this cleared up.McDarkness 23:25, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm a Noncom. It's in the blood. If you don't point out the mistakes, the person who made them will not learn from them. It's quite simple, really. And how is being called rude not an insult? My statement that you were the one who was being rude is due to the fact that you responded to my genuine attempts to help you grow and develop as an editor by coming onto my talk page and accusing me of getting on your back and being rude. How is it not rude to go off on someone who is simply trying to help you become better at what you are doing? It was no more over the top than hanging a brightly colored sign on something you wish to attract attention to. That was my sole intent. To draw attention to an article that needed work. Finally, my last edit summary did not state that you editing was rude. You made an edit that contained the same mistakes that I had attempted to advise you about in the message that you subsequently called me rude for leaving. Since it appeared to be a deliberate and willful disregarding of my attempt to help you (after you had already called me rude for doing so), I took it as a slight, as you ignoring what I had told you. If you had even acknowledged what I had told you the first time rather than just calling me rude, accusing me of being on your back, and so forth, I wouldn't have taken it as such. It wasn't aimed at getting you to stop editing, just at trying to instill in you the mindset of "Don't do it fast, do it right", as again, those were two obvious mistakes. SpartHawg948 23:36, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * "And how is being called rude not an insult?"...I believe the phrase borderline rude was used and not rude by itelf, so rude is an insult, yet borderline rude really isn't unless you have a very broad meaning for insult (and also used pretty much to top that off, so citing something like that on multiple occasions just seems rather unneeded). I have no problem what you pointed out on my talk page, I really don't. Thats because you made a legimate point there, however I was merely refering to what was on the edit summary at the time (had not read the talk page comment). I honestly thought you were merely dismissing my summary with hazard warnings and calling in a professional to help minimize the damage. That, assuming that is what was implied, would and should be under the borderline rude category, wouldn't you agree? And I'll make sure to just not capitalize the race names anymore, as your Noncom blood must contain its own linguistic skills to pick up on something like this by itself (haha).McDarkness 00:04, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it should not be in the borderline rude category. It should be in the 'concerned admin trying to make sure an article in need of help gets it' category. Your interpretation of it may have been that it was borderline rude, but if that is the case, your interpretation was flawed. At no point was it my intent to be rude, borderline or otherwise. I don't do 'borderline'. If I wanted to be rude at all, you'd know, because I don't do anything half-cocked. It's either not intended to be rude, or it's definitely intended to be rude. Not my fault you (as you admitted) rushed to judgment. The point remains, borderline rude is still rude. I could call someone a borderline idiot. If that person is insulted, am I in the right to say 'well I said borderline, so it wasn't really an insult'? Of course not. Borderline doesn't in any way change the nature of the word it precedes. SpartHawg948 00:37, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well might as well just throw in the towel on this one eh? Since I guess throwing out words saying that they dont change the nature of the word they precede is now in play. Oh, and btw borderline idiot still falls under insult category because that actually still would be meant as one, while rudeness is more situational and does not really describe a person. merely their attitude (although I understand your logic, I guess). And besides most of your replies are almost predictable, you had limited options to shift the fault in my direction. Stating that my views are beyond a doubt flawed, and also claiming that my words also have no meaning. Judge's ruling, "Your words are as empty as your future, this conversation is over." Should have known you where secretly Sovereign.
 * So... let me get this straight: Calling someone an idiot (an insult) is still an insult if you call them a borderline idiot. Calling someone rude, however (also an insult) is not an insult if you only call them borderline rude? What a whimsical world you live in! That argument, that borderline negates the insulting nature of calling someone rude, is borderline idiotic. It's not an insult, I said borderline! On another note: You do realize who would be the judge here, right? (Here's a hint... not you) Seeing as this is my talk page, the page on which I am the arbiter (or judge, if you will) of what goes on, the judge would be... that's right, me. And what's with me 'secretly where Sovereign'? Are you implying Sovereign is real, and that somehow I alone possess knowledge of where it is located? I know no such thing. So, in the real Judge's ruling: Insults are insults. Plain and simple. Try to dress them up all you like, with 'no offense', or 'all due respect' (and we know how at least one of Shep's pals feels about that one), or 'borderline', but it's still an insult. As the old and now entirely too well known saying goes, 'You can put lipstick on a pig...' SpartHawg948 01:44, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * So we are in agreement my world is more whimsical than yours? Great I'll take it. Seriously, that one ups your world were words can magically vanish and have no meaning...almost like you have a void in there somewhere. Judges Ruling: (SpartHawg): did you just burn me? and impersonate me? Its ok I let you answer that one. But just so you know what I was saying: Rude -> situational, less of an insult;Idiot -> characteristic, more offensive. But whatever you consider an insult (on your talk page, apparently) is your decision. I mean I could easily say weapons are weapons, but one being a rocket launcher and the other a sling shot, so if you don't believe in magnitude then thats ok with me. (forgot to sign the last one)McDarkness 02:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't 'burn' you. My point was that you aren't the judge on another persons user page. On this user talk page, there is one Judge. Me. I actually expressed that quite clearly. You have absolutely no control over this page. I could delete all your posts right now on a whim, and it would be A-Ok. Were you to change anything other than the posts you've left, however, it would be vandalism. So, to repeat myself, someone who is not a judge cannot make a judge's ruling. You can't (not here, anyways), and I can (pretty much everywhere, as I am a bureaucrat, aka the senior-most admin on this site). Now, back to semantics. Rude is not a characteristic, but is situational? Not so. People often describe others as rude, completely devoid of a certain situation being referred to. Rude is a characteristic. For example, Kanye West is rude. I was not describing a situation, I was describing a characteristic of that person. Likewise, idiot/idiotic can be a characteristic, but it can also be situational. A friend does something stupid. You call them an idiot, or their act idiotic. Are you describing a characteristic of that person? No. You are responding to a situation. Funny how words work multiple ways like that. And no, as an admin, I don't believe in magnitude or degrees. It's black and white, all or nothing. SpartHawg948 02:48, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well at least now I understand that you are too power drunk and determined to see things in such a narrow light that you missed the whole joke. Lets go over it again shall we? (Instant Replay) Judges Ruling: (nothing yet) SpartHawg: (Now I'm impersonating you) did you just burn me? (thats you saying that the void part burned you) and Impersonate me? (See now your asking if I just impersonated you). Funny how words can work in a humorous way? well not to you apparently...(P.S. Kanye West is an exception to the Rude Clause I went over earlier)McDarkness 03:09, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not power drunk. Just not able to comprehend 'jokes' of that nature. I mean, if there had been some context, some way of indicating that it had the meaning you now claim it had, maybe. I suppose in hindsight I can see how you were using it to make baseless assumptions about what I would and wouldn't think of your comments. Always appreciated, that is. Nice to know that a complete stranger thinks he (or she) knows you well enough to assume your thoughts, however laughably wrong they may be. I notice though that you completely dodged the issue of rude and idiot being both characteristic and situational. Hmmm... wonder what that means? And if you insist that Kanye West is an exception, which as I have already expressed is a word not found in my admittedly black and white, all or nothing admins lexicon, I could start naming other people about whom rude is used as a characteristic, not in a situational context. It'd be a pretty long list though. SpartHawg948 03:21, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it is very apparent that is not what you would have said, in fact you typed your reaction up there remember? And it really was not any way similar, so I guess those generic statements are indeed deemed laughable (but remember laughing is part of jokes). And now on to the whole (most likely pointless, but still ongoing apparently) debate over idiot/rude. I believe you were wondering what that means? Let me just tell you that you only proved my point. I said what you did was (borderline) rude, yet you seem to have the notion that you, as a person, are being considered entirely rude. You said calling someone an idiot was equally rude, regardless of borderline status (which apparently is considered void anyway); yet you said yourself that calling someone an idiot is characteristic, but only through saying idiotic is it situational. So therefore, situational comments have less of a (magnitude intended but non-existent as of late) impact? than characteristic. (but you can go ahead and tell me I'm wrong, and just say end or something, because I really hate this argument.) In fact I'm done.(So make go ahead and wrap it up for me.)McDarkness 03:42, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * When did I says such a thing? Not once did I claim that idiot is a characteristic, while only idiotic is situational. Nothing could be further from the truth. You mean to tell me you've never seen someone (a friend, perhaps, or classmate, or whatever) do something silly or absurd, causing you to jokingly say "you're such an idiot", or something to that effect? What could be more situational? Idiot and idiotic can both be characteristic and situational, just like rude. However, both idiot and rude can still be insults when used in a situational manner, and 'mitigation' doesn't really work. Not sure if this was me 'make go ahead' and wrapping it up for you, as I have no idea how to 'make go ahead', but whatever. Maybe it has to do with me and 'where secretly Sovereign'. Seriously though, I've been trying to bring this to a close for a while, as it really isn't going anywhere, and there are only so many of these circular arguments and twisting of my words that I can take. So if you seriously want to drop it, then do so. After all, no one is compelling you to continue posting on my talk page. SpartHawg948 04:02, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * As an addendum, I should probably point out that (as an NCO) I'm not that prone to heart disease. Physical conditioning and all that. Plus, no history of heart disease in the family. And heart attacks don't really result in 'blood everywhere', either. :P But hey, whatev. You want to talk to an automated message to score some kind of silly points or whatnot, be my guest. If it keeps you from making edits that need to be gone over with a fine-tooth comb later, or from making inane arguments on my talk page, then so much the better. Maybe we should get you some more automated messages to talk to... SpartHawg948 04:06, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

No points were involved, and that automated message was alot nicer than you, I'll give it points for that. Wish at least the closing you did would have been nicer, in fact it wasn't nice at all. So have fun with your important matters then. Cheers--McDarkness 04:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * So much for just letting it go, and for being done (I believe the exact quote was "In fact I'm done.") I'll admit, my last comment was a bit acerbic, but it seems pretty uncalled for to post disingenuous comments like the one you did after an auto-message, giving the impression that you are the innocent victim of some sort of monster. After all, let's not forget how this started. You were having difficulties editing, I offered advice, trying to be helpful, and you jumped all over me for it, calling my actions 'borderline rude' and accusing me of being all on your back and whatnot. Sorry if I felt compelled to defend myself. I guess I should have known. I mean, no good deed goes unpunished, right? As for being not nice, keep in mind that the entire time this nonsense has been going on, I have been carrying out a friendly and good-natured discussion with several other users in the very next section. What is the one variable present here that is not present there? You wish my closing had been nicer, and I wish the same about your first post. I was only trying to help, and look what it got me. SpartHawg948 04:41, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, actually I think I just figured out why you were pissed. "Just so you know that advice was bad" was refering to me going to your homepage, not the editing advice you gave, which only pointed out standard protocol. Unless you knew that, in which case this changes nothing I suppose.--McDarkness 05:13, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * But how can you call the advice bad? You didn't follow it. It says to leave me a message on my talk page if I can help with anything. Not to go to my home page. Your first post was to criticize me for trying to help you out. At no point did you seek help of any sort. So again, how can you say that advice was bad when you never followed it? SpartHawg948 05:35, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

Lol, I see whats going on...you thought I was being serious...you could not be more wrong about that comment. It was an attempt at humor. On a side note, having re-read this entire thing, I honestly think you may have misinterpreted my tone, as you clearly seem far more offended than one would expect. But the whole inane argument thing? Ouch. But writing an entire summary only for it to be discarded as junk does seem to put one on edge. So basically if your sole intention was to discard me, then burn in hell lol. But trying to justify yourself is something completely understandable, and in that case we got off on the wrong foot. Innocent victim of some sort of monster? Interesting take. But in all honesty, I was never trying to say anything truly offensive, so if apologies are in order, I will glady provide them.--McDarkness 19:14, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * When did I ever, and I mean ever try to 'discard' your summary as junk? Never. All I did was attempt to help both you and the site by informing you of site policy, then reminding you of site policy when you again (knowingly or not) violated it despite my express written comment (i.e. changing Reaper to reaper even after I informed you quite specifically that it was Reaper), and asked you to use spell check, as there were a great many painfully obvious spelling errors (for example, 'frigrates'). At no point did I attempt to discard anything of yours. Not once. As for the last bit, how was I not supposed to take you calling advice you never followed 'bad' any way other than seriously? You say I could not be more wrong, but you gave no indication in your comment that it was in jest. You said in full "Tried that, did not work out, pretty sure you had a heart attack. Blood everywhere. Was not a good idea. Just so you know that advice was bad." No indication that it was not serious. In fact, you stated that you had 'tried that' (not true), and that 'that advice was bad'. It just seemed that you were A) Blowing my comments all out of proportion (the 'heart attack' bit, which was also annoying as heart attacks of course don't result in blood everywhere), and B) Disingenuous, as to a newcomer who is unaware of the automated nature of those messages, it may seem like a two-sided conversation, when it was, in fact, npt. Throwing hyperbolic fuel onto an already smoldering flame generally isn't wise. So basically, it seems like, while I may have misinterpreted some of your comments, you in turn totally misinterpreted mine. I never once attempted to, or stated a desire to, 'discard' your contributions. I was coming at this from a genuine desire to help, and your initial response floored me with the seeming rudeness and ingratitude (which appears not to have been the intent, in hindsight). So if you do, as you say, wish to apologize, feel free to, though at the same time don't feel compelled to. And if not, let's just let this one go. SpartHawg948 20:22, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I suppose all of my comments after the initial one could have sounded badly, but in actuality I was just trying to figure out why you got so seemingly ticked off. I mean I guess I can see purpose in your reaction now. And as a side note, the way I took the Reaper caps problem was that Reaper would be capitalized, but not Reapers, so I changed the ones with the 's'. But your right about there being no blood in a heart attack, unless of course the heart is exposed I guess, then there may be blood at that point. So sorry about the "hyberbolic" flames, and I guess everything else that is not considered hyperbolic flames. Oh, and don't have spellcheck on my Ipad, so that advice was not ignored, simply not possible. Anyway, letting this one go seems reasonable enough to me.--McDarkness 22:04, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome. You will get absolutely no arguments from me on that one. SpartHawg948 22:06, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

The Grissom Discrepancy
^Sounds like a cheesy novel title. You got ME: Revelation? I need to know when Jon Grissom was born. The article says 2113, but that doesn't jive with a bunch of other things (or maybe those other things don't jive with it). The problem is thus:


 * 2113 - Jon Grissom is born.
 * 2183 - Mass Effect: Ascension occurs.
 * 2186 - Mass Effect: Retribution occurs, three years after Ascension.
 * 2188 - Jon Grissom dies at age 75, and his funeral is held six months before Retribution.

See what I mean? A date there is wrong, but I don't know which one. I don't have Revelation or Ascension, and I won't get Retribution for at least another day; all I've got to go on is what this wiki says. I'm hoping an editor here made a typo, because that's obviously easier to resolve than the books' author making a mistake. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:07, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I actually have Revelation right here next to me. Let me take a look, and see what I can see. SpartHawg948 23:09, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Take your time, I've got dinner. It's crab cake night! -- Commdor (Talk) 23:14, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yay! :) SpartHawg948 23:15, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, I didn't recall Grissom's birth year being mentioned in Revelation, and it wasn't in the first chapter with all the other biographical info on him, so on a hunch I checked the history of the Jon Grissom article. Apparently, per the person who first added the info, 2113 was reached via extrapolation. He is stated as being 70 when Ascension occurs (purportedly, I'm not quite sure where my copy of Ascension is to verify that), and 2183-70 = 2113. Of course, that doesn't necessarily make him born in 2113, as I'm currently 25, and 2010-25 = 1985, but I wasn't born in 1985. So basically, it's speculation. Can't say how that factors in with the other dates. SpartHawg948 23:21, July 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Looks like it comes down to what Ascension says about him. If you ever find your copy of Ascension and can figure out what's what, let me know. This little problem has been a nuisance for my planned update to the Timeline. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:46, July 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nevermind, FridgeRaider got it off audio book. It didn't really help. I'm of the opinion that since the only exact thing about Grissom's age is he died at age 75, we go with Retribution happening in 2186 and that being his death year until some later ME book or game corrects this, if ever. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:30, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... well how does that jive at all with him being 70 at some point in time during 2183? SpartHawg948 00:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure I like the idea of a definitive canon. It sidelines all Shepards except those who follow a certain path, and takes away from the whole role-playing idea. -- Commdor (Talk) 02:04, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * He has to be dead in 2186 for Retribution to be in 2186, which is three years after the events of Ascension in 2183. If Grissom really died in 2188 and was 70 in 2183, then that means the first chapter of Retribution is incorrect. We've got two conflicting statements, all I think we can do without more info is to pick one and stick with it. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which statement, though? Maybe we can get some clarification from the author? This is kind of maddening, as both books are authored by the same guy. So much for continuity... SpartHawg948 00:53, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm all for accepting Retribution's statement. Not only is it precise (we know exactly how old Grissom was when he died), but since Retribution is the latest event in the ME universe thus far, we can think of it as a retcon. There's always the chance Mass Effect 3 might straighten things out. And yeah, I've heard of at least one other continuity problem: Anderson is referred to as an admiral, and Udina as a councilor. One guy said it could still fit all ME storylines if you say Anderson retired from the Council and Udina got his position, but that's a stretch. -- Commdor (Talk) 01:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes that is a stretch, but I throught he wasn't trying to set canon, and that seems to be setting it. Lancer1289 01:44, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Who knows though? This could be BioWare's first attempt at establishing canon. B/c remember, in the 'default' ME2 playthrough, Anderson is an Admiral, and Udina is a Councilor. SpartHawg948 01:46, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or who knows and I really don't want ot open up that agrument again. Personally I do think we some clarification on this from both Drew Karpyshyn and BioWare on whether it is a mistake/oversight, or it is set in stone canon. Personlaly I really don't like Udina as humanity's councilor, bnut that's just me. Lancer1289 01:50, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. It really must just be me then. My roommate is the same way. He finally finished his first Mass Effect playthrough a few days ago and picked Anderson too. I told him I picked Udina, and he said pretty much the same thing you did. Am I really the only one who thinks Udina would be a better Councilor? On another note... this page is really overdue for an archiving, but I don't wanna... But I also don't wanna scroll all the way to the bottom. Even the ToC is too long... I blame Anderson and his lousy Councilor-ing. Go Udina!!! SpartHawg948 01:55, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Anderson isn't a politician, that's why some people (like me) want him to be in a leading position. Udina comes off as untrustworthy, even if he may be a more capable Councilor than Anderson. It's like choosing between Eisenhower and Nixon.
 * Nixon was all kinds of trustworthy! It was his underlings that weren't. He was solid as a rock when it came to running the country. And I'd take experience over a novice any day. Eisenhower was much more qualified to be President than Anderson is to be Councilor. Anderson was a Captain. Middle management. Eisenhower, on the other hand, was a General of the Army, the very tippity top rank, who commanded the most massive allied force in history, dealing with all sorts of complex management, budgetary, and logistical issues that would provided ample training to the duties of the Presidency. Comparing Anderson and Ike is like comparing the manager of a Kinkos to the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. There's being not a politician, and there's being not a politician, but having comparable experience. Anderson is the former, Eisenhower the latter.


 * My reason for liking Udina is as follows - bright eyed naivete and good will won't help humanity out at the top. Experience and know-how will. Udina has it. Anderson doesn't. Simple as that. SpartHawg948 02:10, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe, but Udina still stabbed you in the back in ME. NO FORGIVENESS! -- Commdor (Talk) 02:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * And Anderson held out on you in ME2. Neither one is exactly kosher in my book. One sells you out in the interests of furthering humanity's place on the Citadel, the other lacks the basic trust and faith in you to tell you he (and the Alliance) suspect Cerberus involvement in the disappearance of humans. Udina's backstabbing was to be expected. Classic frog and the scorpion story. Anderson's was the true betrayal, IMO. SpartHawg948 02:20, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Commander Shepard for Human Councilor in ME3! But anyway, I picked Anderson, but really only because Udina rubbed me the wrong way. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if he betrays us in spades in ME3, possibly in a Saren-esque "help the Reapers" way. Anderson may not have as much experience as Udina, but at least he wants to help Shepard. And in Mass Effect, helping Shepard helps everyone. Arbington 03:31, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, except for those times that helping Shepard helps Cerberus, or helps the Shadow Broker... or the times Shepard helps him/her-self. I liked how on on some missions (I'm thinking of the one to recover the data from the dead Cerberus operative the Blue Suns killed) there were three options: Help the Alliance, Help Cerberus, or Look out for #1! I usually chose the third option. :) I hope Udina doesn't end up betraying everybody. I just don't get a good vibe from putting Anderson in charge. I see catastrophes happening when situations arise that he has no clue how to handle, and instead just wants to be all palsy-walsy. I like Udina because he gets things done, dammit! And when you say he doesn't have as much experience as Udina, you mean he has no experience, right? Because that is the case. And while I may be all for political rookies at lower levels, for super high-level stuff like that, I want someone who knows what the hell he's doing.
 * P.S. I concur! Shep for Council ME3!!! It's what the people want! SpartHawg948 03:38, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * If humanity has the quads to make Harkin our first C-Sec officer, we can handle Councilor Anderson. Plus, Udina is his "Advisor", and I have a feeling that he's running a bit more of the political part of the show, and Anderson is handling the military part. If Udina is Councilor, Anderson handles the military, and Udina the politics. It would appear that the result is the same either way. The only difference is who is in the spotlight, and frankly, Anderson makes humanity look a little less like a load of jerks in my opinion. Arbington 03:48, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * But what military part is Anderson handling? I doubt they just handed him the Citadel fleet and said 'go to town'. SpartHawg948 03:55, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps I should have been a little clearer. As a Council, they obviosly have to vote on issues, so no race has more power then the others. What Advisor Anderson/Udina would do is advise Councilor Udina/Anderson on any issues the other is unexperienced with. Thus, humanity would have the opinion of whover would handle the situation best brought to the table. The human councilor would just be the one who proposed the ideas; they wouldn't necessarily always be his. Thus, the result is essentially the same, as the same opinion would be used either way. Arbington 04:08, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is a good point. On the one hand, Anderson doesn't really care about politics, and is obviously sick of the political maneuvering after two years on the Council, so he leaves a lot of the day-to-day stuff to Udina, and he does value Udina's political instincts, so he heeds his advice. And on the other, Udina is a total pragmatist, and as such realizes that Anderson has a good head on his shoulders, and a pretty ample supply of common sense, and as such, would be inclined to keep him around for the advice, even if he had a choice in the matter (which, IIRC, Udina really doesn't in ME2. He's stuck with Anderson). So yeah, either way, you really do get the best of both in one package, don't you? SpartHawg948 04:45, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, though personally, I think the council should've rewarded the Commander with a seat on the Council, instead of two background characters. Eh, maybe in ME3, right? The people most definately do want it, after all! Or not. Depends on what your Shepard did, really. Most people would probably be okay with my Shepard... on Omega. Arbington 04:59, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed! My Shep is also one who would be more well-accepted in the Terminus. Games always work that way though. I remember all throughout Oblivion (if you've played it, you'll know what I'm talking about. If not, sorry...) I was thinking 'I bet once I beat the main quest line and save everyone, they'll make my character the Count of Kvatch!'. Did they? Nope. I got a suit of armor for my troubles. A suit of armor! Same deal here. Though at the end of the trilogy, there really isn't a reason they couldn't make Shep the Councilor. After all, you can do anything to the main character at the end of a trilogy. Just look at what happened to the Master Chief... Maybe we should start a site? 'Shepard for Councilor', and then bombard the forums with it and whatnot. SpartHawg948 05:03, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oblivion is by far one of my favorite games of all time! You may have noticed that my wikia avatar is a page from the Mysterium Xarxes, and if you haven't, well... that's what it is! There are a few mods out there for Oblivion that rectify this "not the Count of Kvatch" problem, but I usually try to mod in very small increments, as it's a good way to screw up a game (and a computer for that matter). Also, indeed, Chief totally got the short end of the stick. Er, ship. 343 Industries will probably deal with the whole Chief issue, though. And they'll do it wrong. Farewell, Bungie-made Halo! You shall be missed! Also (Or also also. I've said also a lot in this post.), I have for a while thought that Shep will become Councilor in ME3, and I always assumed that Udina's treachery would set all that off. He was always kissing up to the Council, and now, he's reached the top of that ladder. The only more powerful group is the Reapers, and I see some Reaper-joining in Udina's future. Arbington 05:24, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's right! You're the one with the awesome avatar! As for the modding, I play it on the 360, so I'm kind of out of luck there. Although The Shivering Isles did kind of make it better. I mean, a Count is a Count, but a Daedric Prince? How cool is that? I mean, you can even mess with the weather! But yeah, maybe we'll see some awesome career advancement for Shep, and maybe not. I'm not so sure about Udina, though. I think the case can be made that there is another higher rung on the ladder. Not the Council ladder, but the human ladder. He could be angling to become Prime Minister of the Alliance. That would be pretty sweet. For Udina-lovers like me, that is. Anywho, we'll see. I want Shep for Councilor, but my dark horse candidate is Zaeed. That would certainly make Council meetings... interesting. The Human Councilor gets mad and shoots the person petitioning the Council. Good times... :P SpartHawg948 05:40, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Zaeed for Shepard's Advisor or some other position of power! Let's see those krogan get fish put in the lake with a merc on their trail! Plus, objectively, relations with the Terminus Systems would improve dramaticaly. Arbington 05:51, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Awesome! I can't stop laughing after reading that. Take that, krogan! SpartHawg948 06:01, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I felt so bad crushing that krogan's dreams though. I never thought a sad krogan was possible, but there he was, with no seafood in sight. I felt like just saying "There's no Presidium fish, but I could swing by a Long-John Silver's on my way back from the Terminus.". Alas, that wasn't one of the dialogue options. Oh well. Arbington 06:19, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure how a krogan would handle hush puppies though. I personally got a kick out of crushing his dreams. But that's just me. :P SpartHawg948 06:48, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Eh, I'm just a big fan of the krogan. As for hush puppies, even I don't like those, and I'm human. Now steak, that seems more like a food that any species would appreciate, but maybe that's just the Texan in me speaking. I could even see krogan opening a steakhouse. "Wrex's Gravyphage". It should be the next hub location in ME3. There, or a theater showing "Elcor Hamlet". You could spend hours there, and that's good, because you'd have to! Nah, in all actuality, I hope they bring back the whole Citadel, or expand Omega for the hub location in ME3. Arbington 07:16, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, a new blog got started up that is a wishlist for ME3. Now I could tell you the first thing I wished for was Shepard to be Councilor. But I didn't. I wished for necromancy. (It's an inside joke, check both the deletion logs and the thread entitled 'Whoops' a little further down this page for the skinny) I mean, it'd be awesome to have Shepard be a necromancer in ME3! Then, right before I hit post, I remembered. So I also wished for Shepard to get on the Council. Sort of a 'Necromancy/Councilor in ME3' ticket! :D SpartHawg948 04:23, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Necromancy would be a cool feature too. I mean, Cerberus had to have had backup copies of the Project Lazarus data, right? I saw the blog, and it's good to see that the Shepard for Councilor idea is catching on. Arbington 04:50, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

August 7th
Hey Spart, just figured I should inform you that I'll be gone all day on August 7th, barring any last minute changes. I am going to Six Flags: Great America with some friends. Oh and about the concert on Sunday, enjoy the concert and have fun. Lancer1289 00:32, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Neat-o gang, neat-o! Super duper! We actually have one of those right here in Santa Clara. It's right across the street from where the new San Francisco 49ers stadium will be built. Have fun with that (since I probably won't remember any of this next week), and I aim to rock my face off Sunday night! \m/ SpartHawg948 01:19, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Whoops
I think I may have inadvertently raised that article from the dead by adding the delete tag too. My apologies. Good thing you had spare garlic or silver or sunlight or whatever it is those things are vulnerable to. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 03:37, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it wasn't you. At least I'm pretty sure it wasn't you. If it was, I may just have to kill you for being a necromancer. Let's hope it doesn't come to that. :P SpartHawg948 03:38, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * In fact, after reviewing the history, I'm sure it wasn't you. You added a delete tag 1 minute after the user who created the page the first time recreated it. So no worries! :) SpartHawg948 03:41, July 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * What a relief. I don't make a very good necromancer, so I'm certain I wouldn't last long in a fight. I'm more of a berserker type of guy. At least, that's how I view the Vanguard, anyway. :P -- Dammej ( talk ) 03:45, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Well, if that wishlist gets started back up, I think I just may put necromancy on it. Shepard was raised from the dead, now the Commander should be able himself (or herself) to raise the dead. Makes sense, if you try not to think about it. SpartHawg948 03:49, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not? Engineer shep is already a 'pet' class (more so in ME2 than in ME), so I'm sure it'd be a nice way to further specialize his/her skillset. Now, in-universe explanation for being able to raise the dead right there on the battlefield... uh... Nanides! Yeah! They uh... take over all functions normally performed by living tissues. Perfect. Slap it in there Christina Norman, we've got a winner. -- Dammej ( talk ) 03:55, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

If your talking about the ME3 Wishlist that was me, I accidentaly remade it. And I want to say thanks for telling me what I was doing wrong. Johncrut 03:47, July 31, 2010 (UTC)Johncrut
 * No worries. It was an honest mistake. Personally, I think an ME3 wishlist is a good idea, and I'm sure it would be popular with the community, it just needs to be in the right place. I'd recommend a blog, but that's just me. SpartHawg948 03:49, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just want to say in my defense, I got the idea from the Saints Row Wiki. It was done the same way I was trying to do it. As an Article.Johncrut 03:53, July 31, 2010 (UTC)Johncrut
 * Amateurs. :P In all seriousness though, we do try to keep anything non-encyclopedic, opinionated, and or fan-created/derived out of the articles. Keep the facts in one place, and everything else in another. So yeah, either a blog or the forum would work, but to elaborate on my earlier recommendation (as I didn't really say why I recommended a blog, not a forum), I noted that you said on the page you made that silly or racist or otherwise not legit posts (I know that's not really what it said, but I'm paraphrasing/have a bad memory) would be removed. This would be ok in a blog, as the person who starts it does so on their user page and has control over it, but it would not be ok in a forum (or an article or article talk page for that matter), as removing/editing other peoples comments is considered vandalism. SpartHawg948 03:57, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okay, Thanks. Johncrut 04:00, July 31, 2010 (UTC)Johncrut
 * (edit conflict x4) Well don't forget every wiki is different with their own rules, guidelines, styles, and ways of doing things. What is ok on one wiki, may not be on another. One think I have always found useful is if you aren't sure, ask an admin or read the manual of style for the individual wiki. The reason it is better suited to a blog or forum post is that no one can edit it as they are comments, or however it works on the SR wiki as I really don't know. I think a forum would be better suited becuase as they are comments, they can't be edited by anyone without suffering conquences. Lancer1289 04:01, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. It's what I'm here for! :) Also, an aside about something that has been bugging me. I know it was a verbatim copy (well, the name was changed) of the Saints Row 3 wishlist, but generally, if something is going to be called the 'Official Mass Effect Wiki' anything, it needs to be approved by not just the admins, but the community as a whole. These days this would be best accomplished by starting a forum post about it in the projects section. SpartHawg948 04:05, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to note that I really don't like the idea of something like that becoming an article, but rather a carefully laid out forum page. But the projects forum would be a good place to start. Lancer1289 04:08, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I still think that a blog would be better if the original 'rules' of the wishlist are tp be used, namely the one about deleting repetitive comments, or comments that don't add anything, or are stupid or silly or whatever. B/c the person who started a blog can delete comments, while this is not the case in a forum. A forum would be totally do-able, the rules of the list would just need to be tweaked a tiny bit. SpartHawg948 04:10, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea I forgot about the whole blog and deletion of duplicate posts thing. Hmm then yes a blog would be better suited for this. A forum would require rules that would alter the typical forum rules, and a clear list of what can and can't be done. 04:14, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Advice
I am seeking your counsel on a very important matter. Well, not very important, but I figure your input would be helpful.

I'd love to be able to say that I'm pulling the trigger on updating the ME2 infobox, however, only 10 votes were cast, and the selection with the most votes only has 5. While this is a plurality, it's not a majority, which would be ideal, I think. What do you think would be the best way to proceed here? Is a 50% plurality "close enough", or should there be a second vote between the top two contenders in order to make sure that there's a majority? I'm kinda torn here, so I think an outside perspective may help me make a decision. Thanks. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 04:36, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... maybe not the best guy to ask here. Sort of a conflict of interest. :P So you have one with five votes, or 50% of the vote. Well, it seems to me that you forgot that one of those five votes is mine. This automatically adds at least 3 to the total, so really, it's 8 votes for that option. See what I mean about conflict of interest?


 * Seriously though, this one could go either way. If you choose to go with the one that has the most votes, plurality or no, I'll have your back. It did get the most, and that seems to be good enough for electing presidents, so it should suffice here. However, you may be on to something with this re-vote. I'm personally leaning more towards the re-vote between the top two, but that's just my opinion, and there really isn't a bad choice here. And whatever you decide, you'll have my support. SpartHawg948 04:57, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Mostly I was looking for verification of my thinking. :P I didn't want to do a re-vote if it seemed embarrassingly stupid to someone else. :P I find the re-vote to be the more "legit" option (especially in light of the conflict of interest that you pointed out; I'm sorta on the winning side as well), so that's what I'm going to do then. Thank you kindly. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:12, July 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Any time! SpartHawg948 05:50, July 31, 2010 (UTC)

Casey Hudson and Afterlife
I'm not sure about a link, unless Prima waves the copyright, but I can confirm that it is in the Collectors' Edition of the ME2 Guide. The exact quote is: "Inside the Afterlife bar, the music and atmosphere make me wish I could go there for real and see what it would be like to spend an evening amongst turians and batarians, with Aria looking down from her VIP balcony above." The interview is part of a special feature of the guide and again I can't be sure about a link, but I can confirm it. Page 317 last paragraph of the first column and continuing into the second. Lancer1289 01:23, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The trivia states though that "Part of this interview is included" in the game guide, implying that the full interview is elsewhere. If we could find that, we should be kosher. SpartHawg948 01:26, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll look into that. Lancer1289 01:27, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok I just did some brief checking, and from just checking a few sights about the book, it appears the interview is whole in the Collectors' edition and not part of a larger one. So what about jsut rephrasing it to say "This interview is included in the Mass Effect 2 Prima Official Game Guide". Also remove the link to Amazon becuase it really isn't needed. Unless Firely Phoenix finds the whole one, I think just rephrasing it should be fine. What do you think? Lancer1289 01:41, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that sounds good. Let's give Fiery Phoenix a day or two to look/respond, and if nothing comes of it alter the trivia to state where the interview appears. SpartHawg948 01:47, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then let us see how the next few days will pass. Lancer1289 01:48, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fiery Phoenix was outstanding and got back to me a little while ago. He said he got it straight from the book. So I went back and tweaked the wording just a tad. SpartHawg948 08:29, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea I saw that when I got up earlier. Anyway it was great that this was resolved quickly. Lancer1289 18:04, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Series, Comics, and Books
Well its been a while, and since I completely forgot, the votes are currently in on the Mass Effect Series and Books deletion results. Series is 8-0 in favor of deletion, unless I'm reading votes incorrectly, and the Books page currently has, I believe 3-1 in favor of keeping it. So I was going to make a few changes but I wanted to clear them first. There are also a few other moves and redirects that have been waiting, but I want to get this out of the way first. Lancer1289 19:32, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Delete the Series article and change the menu link to go from the series article to the Category:Series.
 * 2) Merge the contents of The Art of Mass Effect into the Books article and turn it into a redirect.
 * 3) As to the comics page, move it from the Mass Effect Wiki:Sandbox/Comics into the mainspace.
 * 4) Rework the Sidebar. Under the Series tab, seperate the Novels and Comics into two seperate submenus, linking to the Books and Comics pages respectivly.
 * Yeah, that all sounds good. SpartHawg948 19:35, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, bye bye redundent article, hello to a new one, merging and redirecting another, and modding the sidebar. Lancer1289 19:38, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart, can I just get your opinion on something on my talk page please. Thanks. Lancer1289 19:58, August 1, 2010 (UTC)

Class Guide Pages
Since it has been a while since this was brought up, I was going to inform you that I should have the new class guides ready to go by the end of the week. However, with the new addition of this "Armor" section in the Vanguard and Soldier for ME2, I just wanted to say that I proabably won't be adding it to the class guide page. Personally I have found that all of the various armor components and armor combinations vary greatly depending on personal playstyle, mission/assignment, and squad combination. I have yet to use the same armor combinations in two back to back playthroughs, or for that matter from mission to mission, with the same class for my character and I just wanted to get your opinion on that first. Also to see the new guides see my sandbox. Thanks. Lancer1289 19:56, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Can't argue with sound reasoning like that. SpartHawg948 19:59, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you think I should remove it from the current guides, or leave it becuase I am really considering removing it currently becuase the information in that section is extrememly bias and way beyond what is allowed in guides for reasons stated above. Lancer1289 20:02, August 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, why not? SpartHawg948 20:05, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I figure I'll drop this now before the argument resumes about the "geth Cruisers". Anyway I have finally finished the overhaul of the class guides, see my sandbox for all 12 of them, and they are ready for posting, along with the guide page that I linked above. I just wanted to let you know that they were done and they all now follow a similar, and IMHO, better format. I also wanted to clear it with you, because I am going to overwrite the current ones and post the style guide page and link it on the style guide. Lancer1289 22:09, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wish you godspeed with posting those guides. I personally stay away from guides in general, so really I have no strong feelings one way or the other. On the dropship front, isn't it a riot how this guy will make a point, then as soon as that point is disproved, will never mention it again? "Well, it's like how the Alliance and turian cruisers weren't identified until Mass Effect 2." 'Actually, they were id'd well before ME2.' "..." And later, "Well, they match the outline of the model geth cruiser exactly." 'But Zaeed's model of a turian frigate also exactly matches the outline of a turian cruiser, so we know that there are ships of the same outline but different size and type.' "..." Funny. At least when I get soundly disproved, I concede the point. But whatever... :P SpartHawg948 22:17, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Recent Changes Auto Update
Spart, since you use the Recent Changes I wanted to run this by you. Other wikis have an AJAX feature that auto updates the RC every minute, however I don't know how to implement it. I was thinking of contacting JoePlay about it and seeing if we could get that feature added as well. What do you think? Lancer1289 19:41, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, I'm rather partial to having to manually update the recent changes. As an admin it's useful because it's a dead give-away as to where I left off, and thus where I need to start in reviewing edits for the usual nonsense like vandalism and all that. That's just my opinion, though. SpartHawg948 21:03, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well the way it is set up on the other wikis, you can turn the auto-updater on and off via a check box, so you can manually update it if you know you are going to be away. I think your reason is why it is set up with the box. Lancer1289 21:13, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Any particular examples of wikis that have this feature? SpartHawg948 21:21, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dragon Age Wiki, for one. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:27, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Dragon Age, Halo, Stargate, Star Wars, Memory Alpha, and Warcraft wikis. I know there are probably more. Lancer1289 21:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Didn't stay around to long enough to see it change yet, but I do notice the DA recent changes page doesn't match the recent changes panel. Odd... SpartHawg948 21:31, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do you mean the links to all the various logs on top? Yes a few other wikis have links like that, not all of them have the AJAX feature though. I think it's a personalization think for each wiki, I could ask JoePlay about it, pending if we want this to go through or not. I was thinking that while users are on, it would be easier than refreshing the page. Lancer1289 21:37, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * What? No. I meant that the recent changes page did not match the Latest Activity blurb. Honestly, this seems like a pointless 'bells and whistles' thing to me, but if it's what the people want, who am I to say no to the latest shiny thing? SpartHawg948 21:40, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um, I'm a little confused here, becuase they seem to line up pretty well. Do you mean when it updates the RC then the Latest Activity thing doesn't update? I think that may have to do with the page itself and the AJAX only refreshes the RC, not the Lastest Activiy thing. Lancer1289 21:46, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. When I first went over there, by clicking on the link Commdor provided, the newest recent change did not appear on the Latest Activity blurb, which showed the second most recent change. I had to refresh a couple times for this to correct itself. I wasn't sure if this had anything to do with AJAX or not. So pretty much exactly what I said was what I meant. Nothing to do with 'when it updates' or anything. SpartHawg948 21:50, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think it has anything to do with the AJAX becuase I have encoutnered this problem here as well. The MyHome and RC showed a change to a main article and then the Latest Activity failed to regester it until about 3 or 4 refreshes later. Lancer1289 21:53, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whatev. I've expressed my feelings on the matter. SpartHawg948 21:55, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I though it would be a good idea, however it appears that it might cause more harm than good, so I'll drop it. Lancer1289 21:57, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict) I think that's server lag or some individual site issue that crops up on occasion. I've experienced a similar delay on several wikis, even this one, although not for the past couple months. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:59, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry
I wasn't trying to do anything malicious or anything, it just seemed unbelieveable to me that a major choice is being canonized, and as I hadn't read the book yet I thought it was an error and simply erased it. 173.215.221.87 22:53, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * And added a whole bunch of other stuff to the article at the same time, which was the issue. Not removing Admiral. SpartHawg948 23:06, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know why that happened, it's also happened to me in the bioware forums too, it's the same text. I'd aprreciate it if you'd help me get to the bottom of it. 173.215.221.87 23:29, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I haven't the faintest idea. I don't really know computers. And if it's happened both here and at a completely unrelated website that (as far as I know) is not a wikia site and is in no way affiliated with wikia, it sounds like the issue is on your end. SpartHawg948 23:45, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the forums, I wasn't the only one. It seems to be some broken and useless HTML. 173.215.221.87 23:49, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, computers are not really my strong suit. Not at all. SpartHawg948 00:11, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

A quick once over
Hey Spart, since I'm pretty sure we have all forgotten, but the Policy Forum is ready to go. Can I just get a quick once over of the various templates and pages, located here. What do you think? Lancer1289 00:43, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry I forgot I need to make a few changes, small ones, to the main page. I will also set up an example page in the forum itself to hopefully eliminate all confusion. Lancer1289 00:49, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I completed the changes and the red links are only there for the templates once they get moved into the mainspace. So they are all ready for review and hopefully we can get this going. Lancer1289 01:32, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have to ask... most everything looks good, but voting with buttons? Why? I can tell you right now, if we have to use the little support, oppose, or neutral buttons, I'm either going to vote wrong, or not vote. I personally prefer the way we've been doing it, just making sections for options and voting by signing. SpartHawg948 01:41, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I just don't have to move those into the mainspace and I'll just remove the mentino of the the templates from the Policy Main Page. The only reason I put them in was to follow what other wikis were doing with their templates. To be honest I really don't care about them, but if you are against the idea, I guess they don't have to be moved. How about the rest? Lancer1289 01:44, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah? I hadn't seen that before, at least not on the wikis I frequent. The one I'm most familiar with is Wookieepedia, which does their votes in the manner I described (example). Personally, I think the less frills the better. We want more people to vote, and using templates would actually seem to discourage that. I mean, I'm all for voting, and the thought of having to do that every time instead of just signing even turned me off to the idea of voting. SpartHawg948 01:48, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * The rest of the stuff looks good though. Nice and visually appealing while not overly complicated. SpartHawg948 01:53, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikis like Dragon Age and Halo have templates like that and use them in their voting process. However since we have been using the system you described above, I guess that sets a good president and we continue what we are doing. So, ok to move the rest into the mainspace while leaving the support, neutral, and oppose templates in my sandbox? Lancer1289 01:56, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. SpartHawg948 02:02, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just looked at the Dragon Age wiki's procedure, and I have to say that it seems at best redundant, and at worst overly complicated and counterproductive. After all, they essentially do the exact same thing we do but with the addition of a template at the front. Why add an extra step that adds nothing of substance, and takes time? (In addition to possibly dissuading new people unfamiliar with templates and such from expressing their opinions) I can see maybe using the template if it somehow totally changed the procedure, but at the bare minimum, you still need to both use a template, and sign. It seems like an extra step for the sake of having an extra step. And you know how I feel about that stuff. It's all about the KISS principle. And if it can work for Wookieepedia, with its 78,830 articles, it can work for us. SpartHawg948 02:09, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well apart from one major typo, again curse by router for acting up. I've move everything and am going to create the example for the forum. And to your comment, I seem to forget the KISS principle every now and then, and if it works at Wookieepedia, then it'll work here as well. Lancer1289 02:27, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Ok found a few more things wrong, mainly in my coding of the templates, but they have been fixed and the new forum is up and running. Curse typos. Lancer1289 02:44, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Firepower Pack trivia
Hey SpartHawg, just wanted to get a "go/no go" about adding a piece of trivia about each of the weapons included in the Firepower Pack. Christina Norman tweeted a blog post that has some neat info about the thinking that went into each of the weapons included in the Firepower Pack. The blog is hosted on Giant Bomb (never heard of the site before), but given that we've established that truffle is Christina Norman, and she tweeted the blog post containing the info, I'm assuming that the blog is hers, or at the very least contains accurate information. I wanted to confirm with you if that's an acceptable source first, however. -- Dammej ( talk ) 01:23, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Were it presented by itself, I'd be inclined to say no. Since it's brought to us courtesy of Ms Norman though, go right ahead! :) SpartHawg948 01:25, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy we're in agreement. :) I'm hoping this will be a trend. Info straight from the devs about design goals fascinate me. A holdover from my dream of making video games, I suppose. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 02:54, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which I'm currenlty in college studying for. Anyway I am also hopeful that this will start a trend that gives us an inside view into the developement of the packs, the game itself, and what the goals were. Lancer1289 02:56, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it occurs to me that the blog might make a good "news" item on the main page. We haven't seen that sort of communication from the devs of late, but I'd say this would be a worthy mention. Thoughts? -- Dammej ( talk ) 03:00, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. It has been a bit of a dry spell. SpartHawg948 03:01, August 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dry Spell indeed, I also think it would be a great idea. Lancer1289 03:04, August 4, 2010 (UTC)

Cross-page ambush!
Didn't even see that notice. Lancer should realize that it needs to have massive, 128-font size magenta-colored flashing letters (this tremendous lag also isn't helping). And I prefer cross-page discussions. So there. As for the the asari trivia thing, I don't think the squaddies being purebloods is important in relation to the asari as a whole. It would definitely fit in the trivia sections on Liara's and Samara's pages, but like I said, it feels very extraneous on a page about the whole race. -- Commdor (Talk) 03:35, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have now bolded it and centered it at the top, I felt the red letters would be overkill however. :) However I also see why the asari squadmates should be mentioned. The fact that such a "rare and stigmatized" sect of their race so far have been the only squadmates should be mentioned. As they aren't very common in 2183/5, that should be mentioned. Lancer1289 03:42, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * And that's why I left a note in the edit summary rather than act. If most everyone else thinks the trivia's fine, fine by me. I just had to make sure it wasn't something that had been missed (although I do question the "rarity" of purebloods; "uncommon" or "minority" might be better words. But I digress...). -- Commdor (Talk) 03:54, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * And what are minorities if not comparatively rare? SpartHawg948 06:13, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, minorities are usually rare, especially in certain parts. And I'd have to say purbloods are probably rare anywhere in the galaxy, unless they have a colony for themselves. Lancer1289 06:19, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I remeber it being mentioned somewhere that ther's an Ardat-Yakshi colony, and since only purebloods can be Ardat-Yakshi, I guess that means they do have a colony for themselves. Arbington 06:26, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Table Changes
Spart, I was under the impression that major changes needed to be discussed before implementation, first. Especially when a lot of content will be removed/added. While I am all for consistency, JakePT changed all the tables for the weapons overnight, removing information and adding others, with no discussion what so ever. I don't doubt the intentions, and again while I like consistency, I'm pretty sure that people would have wanted to weigh in on this first before a massive change was implememnted. I have been debating whether ot not to revert it becuase personally I really don't like it for a few reasons, it was done without discussion with people giving input, and the tables, while having the same information, some of it was removed, and IMHO, the tables look more crowded than they did before. I really would like a second opinion here. Lancer1289 15:54, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just noticed something, Tullis has asked Jake to not do things like this before just because he like it that way, the message is in his archive, and I believe this is now the 4th time he has done something like this. Moving pages, asked by you and myself (pre-admin), to not do, and making large changes without consulting anyone, (Tullis, yourself, and myself(today)). As both you and Tullis stated under the Consensus message, he has made large changes before with little or no discussion at all, and that really jerks my chain. Lancer1289 16:19, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

I apologize if I'm going over your head Spart, but after mulling it over lunch, I decided that this kind of change requires discussion, and since no one discussed it, I have revered all the pages. I also apologize if it seems like I'm impatient, but the one thing that really makes me mad is when people do things like this without discussion. I'm guilty of this as well with the whole series article thing, but we had discussion, just a serious lack of communication, which is again my fault. However I really couldn't sit around and look at those changes any longer. Lancer1289 17:36, August 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize. You're doing what you think needs to be done. And, coming in to this after the fact (and without having reviewed the relevant changes myself yet), I'm in no position to judge. In the past, JakePT has been allowed a fair bit of lee-way, but just based off your description of events, it does sound like there did need to be some discussion of the changes first. At least a few courtesy messages. I trust in JakePT to not act recklessly or willy-nilly (which is why he has rollback rights), but even for us admin types, the proper procedures do need to be followed. Us military types do love us some procedures! :) SpartHawg948 18:36, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Thank You. :)
Thanks. :) MistressIlona 8-5-2010
 * You are most certainly welcome! :) SpartHawg948 22:26, August 5, 2010 (UTC)

Geth Dropships and Cruisers
Hey Spart is there any way you can get the image of said geth cruiser upload becuase Councilor 'Rumilee is still insisting that they are cruisers. I do not have the limited edition or the platinum hits edition of ME, curses getting it at the wrong time, so I have no idea what it looks like, and from the description on the Geth Dropship page, that really doesn't give me a clue. Lancer1289 15:01, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also with this advertisement that has been brought up. While it is from an ingame source, I question its bias. Because the Sovereign Model description says "A small ship model of the geth flagship destroyed at the Battle of the Citadel." Now that is inaccurate so I question this claim as a cruiser to bias. Lancer1289 16:38, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Find me a way to take screenshots off my 360 and sure... if not, I'll need to find a camera, and either way I'll need to find that disc. I;d really hoped this argument was over and done with too... I thought it died a year or so ago... SpartHawg948 17:39, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunatly as we have seen with arguments recently, they just never seem to die. Lancer1289 17:41, August 6, 2010 (UTC)

Main Page Update implementation
We are t-minus 10 minutes or so from implementation of the main page update, Lancer wanted me to let you know. And I only just realized that you haven't responded on the project page; I take it I've still got your support for it? Being an admin and all you just need to say the word and I'll put the brakes on this in case you've got any reservations. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:54, August 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry... I meant to reply, then I got distracted by something. Perils of a short attention span. Indeed I am still onboard. SpartHawg948 00:22, August 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Better late than never. :P At least now I don't have to worry about wiki-assassins hunting me at night for jumping the gun. Or do I... Eh, back to my book. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:42, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Featured Articles
I was wondering, how are Featured Articles picked on this wiki? Does everyone vote somewhere, do you and the other admins pick them out, or what? Arbington 22:56, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * People can nominate articles, but ultimately it is up to the admins which articles are FAs and which aren't, as we do have a (somewhat) rigorous set of standards for FAs. You can check it out at Mass Effect Wiki talk:Featured content/Full. Right now, I have pretty much the rest of the year planned out, but honestly, there's no real method to which ones I pick when, so if there are other articles you'd like to see included, feel free to nominate them. The requirements for consideration are in the very first section of the talk page listed above. SpartHawg948 23:06, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks! I read the last part, and if those are the articles you're planning on using, then I guess I'm in luck! The article I wished to nominate was Zaeed Massani, as he's been mentioned a lot lately, and though the artcle may need to be "beefed up" a bit towards the beginning, it looks like you already planned on using it. All in all, I think the lineup looks good. Arbington 23:32, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * You actually got me thinking... and now I'm looking at getting ready for next year. I figure we need at least enough to last until maybe March of 2012, as that's about the same amount of time that elapsed between ME and ME2. So, on another tab I'm working on a partial list, but am also making sure to ask for other suggestions too. And we may end up needing more (or less) before ME3 and even more new material. SpartHawg948 23:35, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll look around and see what I can find that looks like a good FA. Arbington 23:42, August 7, 2010 (UTC)

Have I got an offer for you!
I'm wanting to implement the updated infobox for ME2 (finally) I was hoping you'd be willing to help me out. I can offer nothing in return, unfortunately. I can give you my gratitude, I guess! :)

Anyway, the way I want to do the infobox is to use some CSS code to put the whole "health bar" image on the page. The way I have it in my sandbox uses tables at the moment, but that's not the best way of doing it. Using CSS and divs looks cleaner (and, so far, renders exactly the same in all the browsers I've tested. This doesn't hold true with the current table setup I have).

So if you'd like to help me out, if you could copy the CSS code from my monaco.css to MediaWiki:Common.css, I'd be eternally grateful. The code could safely be placed at the bottom of that file, after everything else. Let me know if you have reservations/questions. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 00:21, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * No deal! I want money. Cold hard cash. Gratitude won't pay the bills! :P SpartHawg948 00:23, August 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, I could certainly set something up. Perhaps all the cash that Shepard and Conrad get from poking through crates could be... audited? I'm sure they could spare the money. I hear that Conrad's wife is even very supportive of his obsession with Shepard! Maybe she'll extend some of her kindness to you as well? :)
 * Project looks to be implemented without a hitch (at least on my computer. Let me know if anything looks off on any ME2 enemy pages.) Thanks a bunch for the input and the help with implementing it. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 00:46, August 8, 2010 (UTC)

Proper Capitalizations
As I have just been enlightend by Teugene and your archives about a mistake I have been constantly making, not capitalizing class names, Sentinel, Vanguard, etc. Also Teugene found out that the various talents and powers, on which capitalization is already inconsistent beyond belief, are caplitalized as well on the BioWare site. Since the talents/powers have horrible capitalization as it is, everyone has their own taste, I was thinking we could put a new subsection in the Style Guide about it. However I do want to know what you think about that first, on talent/power capitalization, before I make any changes. Also can I get an opinion on a sidebar suggest that Teugene proposed on my talk page. Thanks. Lancer1289 18:26, August 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sounds good, and sure, I'll opine here in a few. SpartHawg948 20:10, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry for the delay, doing other things today, but in the blockquote below is what I plan to stick into the Sytle Guide. Just wanted a quick once over by someone else. Also if you feel anything needs to be changed, feel free. The nowikis are for a link that will apply once it is put into the guide itself. Lancer1289 03:31, August 10, 2010 (UTC) "Capitalizations While we don't capitalize the names of alien races, there are other things that need to be capitalized because they are proper nouns. When Shepard is referred to by rank, Commander needs to be capitalized because that is what 'the Commander' is referring to.

The names of the various classes, Sentinel, Vanguard, Infiltrator, Soldier, Engineer, and Adept, are also to be capitalized. This is because they are referencing a specific thing, in this case the player's class, they should be capitalized.

The various Talents and Powers, like Throw, Lift, and Singularity, should also be capitalized. As they are also referencing specific items, in this case the Talents and Powers, which are proper nouns, they need to be capitalized."
 * Looks pretty good. SpartHawg948 03:32, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then, copy paste right into the guide. Lancer1289 03:34, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Curious
I thought I'd drop by and check out your debate about using a new news system, and I noticed your mention of the dragon Age Wiki not finding "it necessary to give major characters from the Dragon Age novels and expansions more than a sentence or two of info in their articles". This is not a design decision, and if you're willing, I would be interested in knowing what articles you had in mind so they can improved. Loleil 06:48, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Namely the Utha article. I just dropped by again and was pretty shocked by the paucity of info. Two sentences apiece covering her involvement in The Calling and Awakening. We have almost as much info (quantitatively at least) about Utha here as either of those sections does. I also am aware that it isn't a design decision, I'm just not a fan of 'well they do it at the ___ wiki' or 'they do it at wikipedia' being held up as the sole justification for something as (in my opinion) asinine as news blog posts containing one sentence. I didn't mean to malign your wiki, as I'm a big fan of it, I was just trying to make my case. No offense intended. SpartHawg948 06:54, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I was aware of that one, but have still yet to find an international bookseller without exorbitant postage fees so I can fix it myself. I also understand wanting to find solutions that work for each individual wiki. I often wish the Dragon Age wiki was closer to the Mass Effect wiki in terms of exclusion. All those "X is a character who appears in this quest. The end", are not my favourites ;-). Loleil 07:13, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I hear ya on that one. It's amazing though how adamant some people are about keeping those articles around. The most minute stuff and suddenly "That's gotta have an article". Oh well. Comes with the territory, I guess. I only skimmed your policy forum, so I may have missed it, but have you tried bringing that issue up for discussion? If you do, and need an extra vote to swing it your way, I could always stop on by. :) SpartHawg948 07:16, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hehe thanks. I brought it up last year, and the general consensus was that we should be as comprehensive as possible. I was able to get that characters with less than three lines of dialogue would be considered for deletion, but the community has spoken on this one. Loleil 07:32, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah well. Can't win 'em all. SpartHawg948 07:35, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but at least I know I tried ;). Hope you come to a satisfactory resolution for your news. Loleil 08:03, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * You and me both! We're slowly inching towards a compromise, now it's just a matter of seeing if we can get everyone to sign on to a plan. No one is going to get 100% of what they want, but hopefully everyone will get at least some of what they want. And we're not even to the voting yet... Isn't negotiation grand? :P SpartHawg948 08:05, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Thermal cl... er... thumbs!
The discussion a while back about thumbs with/without captions got me thinking. I really hate how thumbs look right now. To try and fix this, I coded up some styling that would make them look less jarring, and more like they actually belong in an article. I used the Jeff "Joker" Moreau article to test them. If you agree that they could use a bit of work, check out the styling I have in my monaco.css and see how it looks in your own. What do you think? -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:11, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, first let me start off by saying AAAARRRRRGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!! That conversation (the thermal clips one) is getting so damn frustrating! (Pardon the language). Now, on to the matter at hand. I very much like the new thumbnails. They look splendid! SpartHawg948 23:18, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just someone else's perspective here. I personally don't like thumb images what so ever, so my bias is out of the way first, as i do think they look less professional than the other images. However this does clean them up nicely, could do with some color work IMO, but I still don't like them. Lancer1289 23:21, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Re: Thermal Clips: I hear ya. Sorry I had to drop out for dinner in there. By the time I got back it looked like it'd pretty much reached the point of no return. Glad you were able to survive. :P
 * Re: Lancer: *shrug* I tend to like no captions either, but Spart seemed to demonstrate a preference to having them. My problem with thumbs mainly had to do with the ugly white borders and no distinguishing background for the captian, so if we can make thumbs look less obnoxious, I'll have a harder time arguing against them. I'm satisfied with the colors it has right now, but if others want to make the background different, I have no qualms. -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:31, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like 'em. Definitely less jarring (excellent word choice by the way, it fits to a T). -- Commdor (Talk) 23:39, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thermal Clips argument: I really didn't pay attention to it, but after reading it, I can see how it would be frusterating, and get so very quickly.
 * Thumbs: Well yes I do have to admit that the changes makes them much more appealing to the eyes, but I still don't like thumb images. It may be me, but I really don't like having pictures with borders and a caption in an article, unless it is absoltuly necessary. Everyone has their personal preference, and I don't like thumbs, no matter how appealing. I'll have no objections to adding this to the CSS code, as anything is better than what we have currently, but you still won't be seeing me anytime soon putting images into articles using thumbs, or fixing them. Lancer1289 23:42, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * I like captions on occasion, but if the prevailing opinion is that captions and thumbnails suck, I wouldn't be too sad to see them go. SpartHawg948 23:43, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * At the moment I'm less concerned with the debate on whether or not to use thumbs. The whole reason I brought this up is to make thumbs in general look better for those times that we do use them. Is there anyone against using these colors? -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:46, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Not I. The colors seem pretty consistent with other similar set-ups, such as character info-boxes. SpartHawg948 23:51, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I have no objections, they will certinaly look much better. I'll past the code into the CSS if Spart has no objections. Lancer1289 23:55, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well hold on. There's a bit of a niggle about how and where it should be inserted. Rules already exist in Common.css regarding thumbs, so those would have to be deleted. Let me provide which lines should be replaced... -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:58, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, just post that on my talk page and I'll take care of it. Lancer1289 23:59, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

The new thumbs are definitely better. Just one thing, does that little icon at the bottom right has to be there? I'd think that it will look better not having in there. Teugene 10:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * This is sorta related, so I figured I'd respond here rather than on Teugene's talk page. We can most certainly cause the picture info button not to show, but I'm hesitant to do so. If people want to check out what it looks like, they just have to add

div.magnify { display:none; }
 * to their monaco.css. I've got no strong feelings about it, but if people want to do it, there's how. -- Dammej ( talk ) 01:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no problem inserting that into the main CSS. Spart? Lancer1289 02:00, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. (No objections, that is) SpartHawg948 02:02, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, one copy paste, order up. Lancer1289 02:07, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Enjoy. :) Lancer1289 02:09, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

A question
Spart, currenlty I am up in the air about this one. 69.140.35.147 has repeatly violated the spelling policy and I have left him three nice messages about not doing it, and as my last one was the last warning, I figured he would stop, but alas I am proven wrong. However becuase this is something minor I am unsure what to do, leave another message or block him. I could use some advice on this one. Thanks. Lancer1289 23:24, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... maybe try a two week ban, leaving the option to edit their talk page open. See if that gets a response. SpartHawg948 23:31, August 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * 10-4 thanks. Lancer1289 23:34, August 10, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the YouTube link
This is stuff that is found in in-game files, and ME1 had a number of transfer bugs with the import. Dibol 00:03, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is stuff found in in-game files. But not stuff in the game. Hmmm... unused content. And unused content is not considered canon. After all, if it were, Shep would have rescued a bunch of miners on Caleston, instead of just running there to escape the Collectors. Also, in articles, it's Mass Effect or ME, not Mass Effect 1/ME1. SpartHawg948 00:06, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Creating additional pages for personal use
I have been wanting to make an additional page for my use. It would be a second user page of sorts. I have been wanting to chronicle my adventures in Mass Effect 2 (Mass Effect notwithstanding) and was wondering how the policy on something like this would work. I have never created a new page and feel that this would also help me to become more familiar with the the way the wiki is coded. What are your thoughts? GrandMoffVixen 01:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * My thoughts? I'm thinking that I really don't know jack about how the wiki is coded! So for that stuff, you'd need to speak to someone else. However, as to the "legality" of creating this 'second user page', I really don't see any reason you couldn't. It's your user page, after all. And if I'm understanding the mechanics of it correctly, it really wouldn't be all that different from creating an archive for a user talk page. Yeah, I don't see any policy reasons you couldn't do what you're asking. SpartHawg948 01:07, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks! I will be playing around with this over the next few days. Keep an eye out for it and tell me your thoughts on it as it progresses. GrandMoffVixen 01:19, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, what do you think so far of my new User:GrandMoffVixen/chronicles page? I have been keeping an eye out for new ways to improve on the page code wise. Today I learned how to place an image on the page in the place I want it and also how to resize it without having to upload a new version. I am really getting the hang of this. I will be adding more content soon. GrandMoffVixen 08:26, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I rather like it. Pages like that really aren't my style (and I don't have the PC version, so getting shots of my Sheps would be difficult), so don't expect to see me doing one any time soon, but it looks nice. You've put some work into it, and it shows. The page has some serious potential, and you do seem to be making the most of it. Keep up the good work! :) SpartHawg948 08:31, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Foiled!
I was all ready to continue the discussion, but wikia decided that it wouldn't allow the latest image I uploaded to display properly. Enough time for you to amend the discussion and point out my, er, asinine campaign. I do still see teeth there, but I'll relent from attempting to prove it to you. It's part of the reason I like to bow out of discussions early, as I tend to take things a bit far.

To show there is no ill-will, here's Miranda romancing a scion. -- Dammej ( talk ) 07:54, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Boo! I don't wanna see that! Miranda is my favorite LI, in addition to being one of my favorite ME2 characters! Yeah, I just really did not want to get into another one of those never-ending arguments where neither side is willing to concede because it's ultimately as much a matter of opinion as fact. I was hoping it'd blow over, then I saw those new images being uploaded and the frustration just got to be too much. Any day other than today, and I'd have been more willing to go on. But after that heat sink vs thermal clip BS, I need a break. SpartHawg948 07:58, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can appreciate the need for relaxation. For what it's worth, I'm glad you defended your viewpoint as much as you did. Finding good screenshots of that guy is tough.

If not Miranda and a Scion... how about... Legion's twin? -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:04, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll see your Legion's twin and raise you a How Flux should have gone down. SpartHawg948 08:11, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, last one. I give you CSI Terminus. Oh Garrus. -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:18, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but seeing that one made me have to post this one. Have you seen the new Law and Order? If not, here's Law and Order: Citadel Security. SpartHawg948 08:24, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fantastic. Looks like it got great ratings too! Back to feeding those krogan some fish, I guess. Oh, and did you want to delete all those ridiculous images I uploaded? Perhaps leave just the one that finally convinced you, perhaps? I can delete them from the talk page if there's a desire for that. Up to you. -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:30, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, it's up to you. If you want 'em, keep 'em. If not, nominate them for deletion. I'm playing the neutral card on this one. SpartHawg948 08:34, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok ok, I know I wasn't involved in this but after seeing those videos late at night and laughing my face off I feel the need to post the ugly chinese sole survivor.GrandMoffVixen 08:41, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * That poor bastard. :P SpartHawg948 08:47, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Ongoing Vandalism
I'm sorry, Spart, but we're having serious problems with continuous vandalism. Just take a look at history of Teugene's talk page. We need someone to deal with it. Thanks in advance.Harbinger265 11:47, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a juvenile who can't handle a simple correction and throws a tantrum after that. Teugene 11:57, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to fill you in on who's the culprit User:Subatomique (his prior IP was 99.7.252.200, and subsequently using anonymous IPs 173.233.72.34, 109.123.80.69 and 173.236.37.90 to vandal mine user page as well as other user's pages. Teugene 15:25, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

To give you a gist on how and where it all began, take a look at the history of this page. Anonymous user 99.7.252.200 made a spelling edit which was unnecessary, so I proceed to revert. He subsequently registered as User:Subatomique and left me a message claiming the pre-edit was wrong but was proven otherwise by me (and in the same time, nearly starting an edit war). Reasoning with him did not help and he proceed to deride me. Subsequent actions includes removing the whole discussion from my talk page, continuing to insults, and vandalism of my user page (as well as others using different IPs). What a tool he was. Teugene 15:41, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Since I woke up before you Spart I think I have dealt with the fallout. I have blocked Subatomique and the 5 vandel IPs for 3 months. I felt with the evidence presented that the ban was warrented. Lancer1289 17:10, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Only three months? Rampant vandalism like that calls for a year, IMO. Hmmm... maybe I should consider giving more users rollback power. If only there was also a way to give non-admins banning power... Seems like this loser wanted people to think he's one of those Anonymous jackasses. Given the inane and childish nature of the edits, I very much doubt it. Some spoiled little kid who couldn't take being corrected, like Teugene said. SpartHawg948 18:49, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's back by the way. Teugene 18:51, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Slammed him already. And I'll up the blocks for the now 7 users for a year to concur with your argument. Which seems better. Lancer1289 18:52, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Curse haveing to reset my rounter twice in 24 hours. Lancer1289 18:54, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * No offense guys, but I highly doubt this will stop him forever. MEffect Fan 18:56, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm... I've actually got to step out and take care of some business, but hopefully this kid will tire of this quickly, what with the limited attention spans these people usually have, and will stop the childish nonsense. If not, I'll be back later and will help deal with junior, if needs be. SpartHawg948 18:58, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably not, but one can hold out some hope that we eventually shut down all of his IPs. We just need to be on the lookout. Lancer1289 18:59, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hate to admit but I kinda agree with MEffect Fan. Dynamic IPs or proxies are hardest to block. Just have to remain vigilant whenever these things occur. I just happen to be looking around when he threw one of his tantrums again. Teugene 19:01, August 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * As to I, I have just finished reblocking the user name and IPs for a year, so hopefully he will learn his lesson, but I am not hopeful on that point. Lancer1289 19:04, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

As to another user for rollback, may I nominate Teugene. His edits and reputation speek for themselves. I beleive he has more then met the quialificaitons, at least in my opinion. Lancer1289 19:21, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, this isn't over yet. I saw what he or somebody else did to Spart's user page several minutes ago. Harbinger265 00:48, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think these people realize that I take my page being vandalized as a point of pride. Every time they do it, my ego gets a little bigger. So they can keep right on at it. I'll just get even more arrogant and full of myself! :P SpartHawg948 00:52, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really find it annoying that people insist on doing this. Oh well, as we have learned today, some people have no sense of common sense, decency, and respect for others. I always hold out some hope, but I am proven wrong time and time again. Lancer1289 01:00, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh. Interesting point, Spart. I hope I could say the same about myself, but I got nearly nothing on my user page to make it worth vandalizing. However, I believe I would fix it in the nearest future. :) Harbinger265 01:10, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Lock Down
Hey Spart there is something I think you should give your views on my talk page. Even though I believe your views will match mine. Lancer1289 20:11, August 11, 2010 (UTC)

sorry
Sorry I vandalised your page. I felt bad affter words but I have know idea how to redo it.Please ban me as punishment. I await your response.Deaply sorry 207.200.116.10 22:30, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Semi-Protection again
Wanted to bring up the topic started about Semi-Protection again. It's been a while, but I feel like I'd be remiss if I didn't at least follow up with you and see if you'd come to a decision about it. Thanks in advance. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:27, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, don't know if you saw it, but there was a similar discussion on Lancer's talk page, which can be found by following the link in the 'Lock Down' section a few threads up from this one. Long story short, I'm still opposed to any sort of protections or restrictions. I personally don't want the wiki becoming to small and insular and being stifled by a lack of new contributors, which I think would likely happen if we imposed protections against unregistered users and all that. Restrictions and protections seem to me to be capable of more harm than good, especially in light of the fact that they won't really be incredibly effective. After all, the last major instance of vandalism we had (several offensive images being uploaded and then placed in a new and similarly offensice page) was committed by a registered user. SpartHawg948 06:36, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really I guess I missed that one. Even so regestered users, while not as often, still vandalize and I can provide a few examples of that. I am also against protection in this case for reasons that I stated two months ago, very few URs even konw what a template is, much less where it is located. Protections have benefits and curses, and in this case I believe the curses would outweigh the benefits. There's my two cents. Lancer1289 06:40, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it's a good philosophy overall, I agree. Your answer doesn't come as a shock to me, but I wanted to close off that discussion just the same. It is puzzling that a registered user was able to upload those images immediately too. I was under the impression that you had to both be registered for 3 days, and have made 10 previous edits. Shows you what I know. :) -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:45, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, no worries. I'm just happy I was able to delete the more offensive of the two images before he was able to create the page that would have showcased it. As Garrus (I believe it was) said, 'Sometimes you get lucky'. SpartHawg948 06:46, August 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Lancer1289 06:47, August 14, 2010 (UTC)

Rachni Envoy
Still don't think it's Claudia Black? This clip proves it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27P6X-xxqYE Shadowhawk27 22:14, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Read my edit summary. When did I ever say the the Rachni Envoy wasn't voiced by Claudia Black? When? What does my edit summary say? I'll make you a deal. Find the statement where I said Claudia Black didn't provide the voice of the Rachni Envoy, and I will immediately transfer all the funds at my disposal to an account of your choosing, make you the sole administrator of this wiki, and give you my truck as a bonus. SpartHawg948 22:18, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tempting as it sounds, but im not even sure if that's what the charictor was called, but it's Claudia Black alright no mistake Shadowhawk27 22:23, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart was just limiting the trivia to major characters, he didn't say that it wasn't Claudia Black. I am also not sure of the name, I think it is either in the subtitles or she says it, but I think it's the former. Lancer1289 22:26, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Again, though, as you appear to be dodging the intent of my question: What did I say in my edit summary? Did I ever once, even once, say that I was removing it because Claudia Black didn't voice the Rachni Envoy? NO! My edit summary said

"to keep these getting out of hand, how 'bout we limit them to at least semi-prominent characters? 'Rachni Envoy' is not one. Aethyta barely is, but Racnhi Envoy? No way."
 * See the part in there where I even questioned if Claudia Black provided the voice of the Envoy? Nope, because it isn't there. My reason was simple. Since VAs typically provide voices for many characters in each game, some major and some minor, in order to keep VA trivia from getting ridiculously long and out of hand, we should limit it to noting major or prominent characters that the VAs voice. And a character we don't even have a name or title for is not prominent. Next time, please re-read the summary and learn its intent before jumping to conclusions. SpartHawg948 22:28, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, I just wanted to prove something, that's all. I go through all this trouble just to get the evidence to back up my claim and what i get in return is nothing but Grievance Shadowhawk27 22:30, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * But you wanted to prove something that was never in question! I never once doubted that Claudia Black voices that character. But I hate, hate, hate having my words twisted around and misinterpreted, and having words put in my mouth that I never said. And, knowingly or not, you did this when you claimed that I made the edit I did out of some belief that Claudia Black didn't voice the Racnhi Envoy. Simply take my words at face value, and all this can be avoided. All the time, the wasted effort and trouble on your part collecting evidence for an issue that was never in doubt, and all this frustration on everyone part. SpartHawg948 22:42, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * You think you've got problems with users on this wiki page? I've been at war with this user named Thailog over on DCAU wiki where he and I were Feuding over Killer Croc's real name where he says it's Morgan and i tell him it's Waylon Jones. Shadowhawk27 20:41, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * As long as both of you were staying on topic and not going after each other for things that the other person never said, it can't have been more frustrating than this was. Nothing is more frustrating than clearly giving a reason for an edit, then having the other person come at you totally out of left field over something you never said. SpartHawg948 20:47, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah well im almost banned from that site over Killer Croc's real Name which really grinds my gears.... Shadowhawk27 20:52, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... sorry if this sounds rude, but I do have to ask, what does any of this have to do with me? At all? Or this wiki? At all? In other words, why was it felt that this should go on my talk page? B/c in all honesty, I have no idea what you're talking about, so all this is doing, near as I can tell, is bringing up an old argument and getting me ticked off again by reminding me about it while at the same time adding a bunch of stuff that means nothing to me to my user talk page, which I like to keep on topic (i.e. about things concerning me or the wiki, not arguments with people I don't know on wikis I've never heard of about things I'm not familiar with). SpartHawg948 21:01, August 20, 2010 (UTC)\
 * If you want to see the link to it, i can show you, if not oh well. And again im sorry that i misunderstood you :( Shadowhawk27 22:18, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. No desire whatsoever to see (to quote my last post) "arguments with people I don't know on wikis I've never heard of about things I'm not familiar with". SpartHawg948 22:21, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Two things
One: Since it is grinding on my nerves, and if I am not mistaken you agree with me that visual comparisons are not enough to justify trivia. I have removed several things today that use it as a basis for trivia, and I was wondering if an addition to the Style Guide Trivia Section about how visual comparisons aren't enough to justify trivia would be a good idea? Something along the lines of: "Please do note that visual comparisons are not enough to justify trivia, as visual comparisons are usually opinion based. Saying that two things look alike is a matter of opinion and others may not share you views."

Two: I saw the recent vandalsim again on the Forum:Character builds page, which you got to just before I did, and I saw you blocked the user for 3 months. There was a vandalsim earlier in the day that had the exact same edit and summary line so I was thinking of upping the block to match. Thoughts?

Oh and about the Mako edit, I tried to find a six wheeled variant and failed. The eight wheeled, which was all I could find, to me, wasn't enough, shows what I know. Lancer1289 05:15, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Straight visual comparisons in things that really are otherwise unrelated, yes. Visual comparisons in things such as a fictional armored personnel carrier and two very common real-life APCs (such as the BTR and the MOWAG), that one you can argue on the basis of design influence. And removing one tidbit on the basis of 'visuals aren't enough' but leaving three other visual comparisons in the article smacks of inconsistency. As for upping the ban, sure. I picked three months because it appears to have been the same person, so repeat offense. SpartHawg948 05:20, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok on the block, but I also just found an image of the 6-wheeled variant and I do agree that it was too similar to eliminate. Again, I looked and couldn't find one until about 3 minutes ago. So a quick mod of what I have above for the visual comparison bit, fell free to modify inside the blockquote if you feel it necessary.

"Please do note that straight visual comparisons in things that really are otherwise unrelated are not enough to justify trivia. If making a visual comparison then a connection must be made to the function of the item to back up the claim and in order to justify it."
 * Oh as to the BigTrak trivia in the Mako article, after looking at several images, I really don't think that one fits with the other two, which are actual APCs. Lancer1289 05:37, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I see some similarity between the Big Trak and the Mako, but not as much as between the Mako and the BTR, or the MOWAG 6x6. The Ford M-20 I'm slightly more ambivalent about, as the wheel configuration is the main point used to justify it, and the wheel configurations really are about as dissimilar as they can be and still be 6x6s. The style guide bit (the second one) looks all right. SpartHawg948 05:42, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I see the connection between the M-20 and the Mako is really just the wheel config, which isn't as good as the APCs. Also isn't the M-20 just a mod of the M-8 Greyhound because that is what it looks like? So how about removing the M-20 and the Big Trak, or would like to keep the latter one? I'll up the block and add the bit to the style guide in the meantime. Lancer1289 05:47, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Did a little more looking, and it turns out that the Canadian military uses four different variants of the MOWAG Piranha, including one (the AVGP) which is a modified 6x6, so it seems safe to say it may have been an influence. When a Canadian company needs design ideas for an APC, why not look at the APCs their own military uses? In fact, in the wikipedia image of the AVGP, change the color, remove the ghillie-type camo, and flatten it a bit, and you've practically got a Mako. SpartHawg948 05:48, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Indeed, they appear very similar, especially once you remove the paint and other things, and they are both APCs so yes I'd have to agree with that one. What better place to look for influences than in your own backyard, as is the case with many game designers, like Shigeru Miyamoto. Sorry about that, I did a report on him for summer classes, Intro to the Game Industry. As to the Big Trak and M-20, remove or keep? Personally I do thing the M-20 should go as well. Lancer1289 05:56, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Already removed them both. SpartHawg948 05:57, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah I see. Also since you probably would know, is the M-20 a modification of the M-8 Greyhound Armored Car or not? Or is it the same thing? Lancer1289 06:01, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. It's simply a turret-less variant of the M8. SpartHawg948 06:12, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the info. Lancer1289 06:15, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Rollback
Since I don't know if you saw my post earlier, it was near the middle of the "Ongoing Vandalism" section, but since you suggested it, I was wondering if you are still looking additional users for rollback privilages? Lancer1289 20:33, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm thinking of a few names. Maybe Dammej, maybe Teugene, maybe Arbington. Still mulling it over, slowly but surely. SpartHawg948 20:35, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well you pulled the three names I was going to suggest anyway. If you need a second opinion, then fell free to drop me a line. Email or talk page, I really don't care which as I'll get to both quickly. Lancer1289 20:37, August 17, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks; question about humor
Sparthawg, thanks for the welcome.

I noticed that another admin was altering some captions I gave to screenshots. E.g., I had written, "so-and-so [a scientist] bears arms instead of a beaker" for a screenshot I added of the character bearing arms (in which both weapons were visible). This was changed to the more colorless statement that "so-and-so bears such-and-such gun". My question: are humorous (if not inaccurate) captions unacceptable for this game? I didn't find anything speaking about this in the guidelines.

Thanks, and thanks for all your work on this site. AnotherRho 02:57, August 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I really don't see why they would be. I'm all for a bit of levity. SpartHawg948 03:01, August 18, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Sorry if its personal but what does sparthawg948 stand for.Legionwrex 00:19, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart is a Halo reference (to the SPARTAN-II program) as I originally created the username over at Halopedia. Hawg is a nickname used in the Air Force for the plane I worked on, the Fairchild Republic A-10 Thunderbolt II, also known as the 'warthog' (A-10 maintainers call it the Hawg), and 948 is the last three digits of the serial number of the plane I was last assigned to, tail # 81-948. SpartHawg948 00:23, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Anybody who likes halo is a friend in my book :) Oh and thanks for banning that guy Legionwrex 01:10, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * No worries. While on this wiki, I've got your back! :) And yes, Halo is pretty outstanding. Less than a month now till Halo: Reach comes out! I'm stoked! SpartHawg948 01:58, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I Pre-ordered legendary edition. Looks awsomeLegionwrex 02:19, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

A fellow Halo player! And one who worked on my favorite aircraft of the USAF! Thanks for sharing with us, Sparthawg948. And while I'm on here, thanks for running a tight ship at this wiki. It took me a while to appreciate your way of doing things, but you are an impartial admin, and I can't really ask for much more in one. Thanks again. (I guess you can tell what my sig refers to, then). John117XL 02:41, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, what does it refer to? :P And thanks for the appreciation for the A-10! It's a great plane, but a lot of the kids today (not saying any of you are necessarily children, I just like saying 'the kids today...') don't appreciate it. They want fast and flashy. Lousy kids! :P And thank you for the nice appraisal of my admin-ship. I try to be fair to everybody, and though it doesn't always show, I do also try and be as nice as possible. I'm very rarely a jerk just because I can be, and the few times I am, it's to people who do genuinely deserve it, like vandals and people who start flame wars and such. SpartHawg948 03:06, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

It referse to Master chief aka John 177. See I know halo stuff to (not that anyone doubted that I did)Legionwrex 03:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean Master Chief (it's a rank, actually the shortened form of Master Chief Petty Officer, so both words should be caps), aka John 117? I knew what it was referring to, and said 'no, what?' in jest, as indicated by the :P emote. SpartHawg948 03:38, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

I like to call him Master Chief whithout petty officer at the end makes it shoter. Just like how I call Thel vaddamee(without the ee post war) Arbiter

Forgot to sign my post Legionwrex 03:48, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Though I'm not from the U.S., I've always admired the A-10 the first time I've seen it while I was still in school. It gave me the impression of a rough-tough-bad-ass plane who will tear all foes to shreds! It's "Warthog" nickname have stuck in my mind ever since then too (I'm trying to recall if there's anything to do with Pumbaa the warthog :P). Teugene 03:54, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * There's actually a pretty good reason it's nicknamed the Warthog. Well, a couple, actually. Fairchild Republic planes had a history of 'hog' nicknames (similar to Grumman's 'cats', such as the Wildcat, Hellcat, Bearcat, and Tomcat). The F-84 Thunderjet was called the 'Hog', the F-84F Thundersteak was the 'Thunder Hog', and the F-105 Thunderchief was the 'Ultra Hog'. So some sort of hog name was pretty much a given. And, if you look at the plane (and the first pic in the wikipedia article is good for this), you'll note it's a plane with lots of bumps and protuberances. Lots of little intakes and exhausts for fans and such all over the place, especially just aft of the cockpit. And, as aerodynamic performance wasn't a huge issue, they also didn't use flush rivets, so especially aft and under the engines, you have lots and lots of bumpy little rivet heads all over the place. So they decided to call it the Warthog. And there you have it. SpartHawg948 04:04, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Welp, if I recall correctly, wildlife guides advise against antagonizing a warthog more than any other animal its size due to its sheer tenacity. The A-10 does a great job of representing that feature! Aside from the impressive weapons loadout (30 mm depleted U vulcan gun and maverick missiles - correct me if I'm wrong), that dang thing has an amazing turning radius and can take some unbelievable levels of damage, comparable to the Soviet Mi- gunship series such as the Hind (which are my favorite helis of all time). I'd like to see an F-22 or Eurofighter take that sort of damage and keep flying/be mission capable. What systems were you on, Sparthawg? I understand if that's classified, but boy, I'd give a lot to see one in action, let alone fly it. John117XL 04:12, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Welp, if I recall correctly, wildlife guides advise against antagonizing a warthog more than any other animal its size due to its sheer tenacity. The A-10 does a great job of representing that feature! Aside from the impressive weapons loadout (30 mm depleted U vulcan gun and maverick missiles - correct me if I'm wrong), that dang thing has an amazing turning radius and can take some unbelievable levels of damage, comparable to the Soviet Mi- gunship series such as the Hind (which are my favorite helis of all time). I'd like to see an F-22 or Eurofighter take that sort of damage and keep flying/be mission capable. What systems were you on, Sparthawg? I understand if that's classified, but boy, I'd give a lot to see one in action, let alone fly it. John117XL 04:12, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm sorry.. I wasn't actually wondering about how it got its nickname, rather, why the nickname got stuck in my memory. Heh. Nevertheless, your explanation is factually interesting as well. :D Teugene 04:15, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was a crew chief, meaning I worked on the aircraft itself, as opposed to any specific system. Launching and recovering the aircraft, refueling it, servicing oil, liquid oxygen, etc, changing tires, that sort of general maintenance. We did sort of specialize in the hydraulic systems though, which are pretty interesting, what with all the redundancy. As for classified, not much on that plane actually is. It's built to be simple and rugged, so there isn't too much fancy equipment in it. And your weapons info was pretty much spot-on, just one thing that needs correcting. It's a 30mm cannon all right, but not a Vulcan. The Vulcan cannon is the 20mm used on F-15s and F-16s, and I believe it's also mounted in the tail turret of B-52s. The A-10 uses a 30mm Avenger cannon. SpartHawg948 04:50, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Headquotes for enemies.
Your edit summaries confused me, since there are definitely headquotes for Blue Suns Trooper, YMIR Mech, and LOKI Mech. I don't have a strong opinion about whether they should be there or not, but they're certainly not without precedent, otherwise I'd have removed them as well. Also, I sent you an email earlier today, (technically yesterday at this point), and I wanted to confirm that you'd received it. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:07, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hadn't noticed those. Well, three with, all the rest without. Hmmm... which of these is not like the others? Also, no, last I checked, I hadn't received any emails. I'll check again. SpartHawg948 06:09, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, no email. Hmmm... I've been having some issues with that lately, people sending me emails and me not receiving them. I'll look into it, but for now if you'd like I can send you an email, just so you get the address, and you can reply to it with whatever the original one was about. Would that work? SpartHawg948 06:16, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really odd. Wonder if there's something going on with wikia. Anyway, yeah, that'd work. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:18, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

That's my thought. I receive emails from everyone else just fine, but for some reason, even though they used to work fine, I no longer get Mass Effect emails. Odd. Well, I'll shoot you a line here in a sec. SpartHawg948 06:22, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * And sent. SpartHawg948 06:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now that I think about it though, if there's an issue with me receiving email, I wonder if there's an issue with me sending it as well. Let's hope not. SpartHawg948 06:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've sent a reply, so we'll see if there's an issue with your email or something. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:33, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

And I sent you a reply! So maybe it is something wikia related. I contacted them, so we'll see if they can figure it out. SpartHawg948 06:39, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Figured it out. Well, Wikia figured it out. It's an issue with my current email providers for some reason labeling Wikia emails as spam. Luckily, I have another email address I set up for reasons I no longer remember, so now if anyone tries to email me, it'll go there, and I should receive it just fine! SpartHawg948 20:46, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow that was interesting. Anyway now hopefully that will clear up the whole not receving emails issue. Lancer1289 20:49, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh since you did switch your email, I just sent you one so I can have that email just in case. Also there's something in that email as well. Lancer1289 01:41, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Rumours
I have a little question-are rumours from random persons not acceptable even with the warning of speculation possibility?Ref92 10:36, August 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Nope. The speculation policy pretty clearly states that speculation about upcoming games and DLCs needs to have at least some legitimate sourcing. Forum posts from anyone other than BioWare staff members is invalid source material. This applies both for the rumored release date and the edit to the Eastern Europe info, which also was unsourced. SpartHawg948 10:38, August 19, 2010 (UTC)




 * Thank you for your reply and apologies for mistakes, will take more care next time. Ref92 10:43, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a problem, happy to help. If there is something to this rumor, it will likely get picked up by a legitimate source like IGN or GameSpy or something, or maybe someone at BioWare will decide to confirm it since the cat is out of the bag. If that happens, it'll be good to go back in the article, and it'll also be pretty awesome, since I can't wait for Lair of the Shadow Broker! :) If there's anything else I can do to help, let me know! SpartHawg948 10:45, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Tense?
Hi! Thank you for welcoming me.

I do have a small question: in which tense should I write? Past or present? I'm having difficulties with some articles on Revelation, because most (not all) are written in the past tense, which is sometimes (or feels like) a spoiler.Deeeee 12:30, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * My thinking is that it should be written in the present tence for the opening paragraph/sentence, then switching to past tence under the spoiler tag. That's my thinking anyway. Lancer1289 15:47, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that sounds pretty good. Obviously, though, some articles will be written pretty much exclusively in the past tense, intro and all, for things that happened well before the novels and games and all that (the Protheans, the Rachni War, Krogan Rebellions, Geth War, First Contact War, etc). SpartHawg948 19:24, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd have to agree with that. Some do have to be written in the past tense, mainly those that provide the backstory. Apart from that, I think present above spoiler tag, and past after. Lancer1289 19:27, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, i'll do it like you said in the future. thx Deeeee 20:54, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Blurred image of Shepard
Since the policy is not to have images of Shepard, and since "Shepard" is modifiable above all in his/her face, would it be acceptable to post a pic that includes Shep in it, on these rare conditions: if the body (skin) isn't visible and the face is blurred out; and serving these two purposes: one, humor; two, variety (I mean, if Shep's inclusion is necessary to make for variety)? I ask with a view to this picture which I wish to insert in the EDI article (which is flagged as requiring more images of the otherwise always-the-same-looking EDI). I insert it here, to be deleted at your discretion, for the sake of my question. Thanks. AnotherRho 19:42, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd have to say no for that image. First off, the blurring is very disconcerting. But anywho, the no-Shep images thing really only has two exceptions: Armor pics, and Romance section pics, and in both cases, it needs to be the default male or female Shep, no alterations to anything like hair color, style, etc. This doesn't seem to fit either of those categories, and I can't be sure, but that also doesn't appear to be the default female Shep. SpartHawg948 19:45, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * The blurred image really doesn't sit well with me, and I also don't like putting it in to begin with. If that is all that people need to do get an image with Shepard in, then we are on a very slippery slope. Also I don't believe that is the default either. Lancer1289 19:47, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * All right, I suspected it was too amiss. Removing image; can you guys delete it from the uploads altogether? (is that something I'm able to do, too?) AnotherRho 19:53, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * As to deletions, no you can't only admins and bureaucrats can do that. As to the image, I don't see a problem deleting as it is author's request. Spart? Lancer1289 20:00, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it is one of the choices for reason for deletion, isn't it? SpartHawg948 20:01, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Right one deletion coming up. Lancer1289 20:05, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks guys. AnotherRho 20:06, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Melee
I'll be adding more to it as I have time, right now I am mostly playing Fallout 3 as a way to take the edge off while waiting on New Vegas. Mictlantecuhtli 21:06, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * You too, eh? I started replaying Fallout 3 just the other day. I can't wait for New Vegas! SpartHawg948 21:08, August 19, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Film
Hi!!!

I found this:

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni1941704/

SoulRipper 00:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Except that is not confirmed. The article states and I quote "Matthew Fox is in the latter stages of talks for the role of Commander Shepard in a Mass Effect feature film." That doesn't mean he is confirmed, just in talks. As such it shouldn't be mentioned because it isn't confirmed yet. Lancer1289 00:39, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

IMDB is not a valid source. We have confirmation that they will run material that is demonstrably false. They do not screen info submitted to them for veracity, they simply take it at face value and run it. To test this, some time ago one of our editors submitted info about Mass Effect that could easily be disproved without any effort, and without extensive knowledge of the game. A short time later, this inaccurate information appeared on their Mass Effect page. As such, IMDB can be used to corroborate a valid source, but not as a primary source itself. SpartHawg948 00:40, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? That's fascinating. I don't know how IMDB works... do people submit things that get approved by an editor or something? Also of note: The date of the linked article is April 1st. If IMDB wasn't already a suspect source, the date of the article makes it even more suspect. -- Dammej ( talk ) 00:43, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really? I didn't even notice that, April 1st? Wow that just proves how unreliable IMDb is. An article that is over 4 months old and they finally get their hands on it. Wow, I don't know what else to say to that. Lancer1289 00:49, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Yeah, I'm not too involved in it, but I know that registered users can submit info, changes, additions, stuff like that, and then it gets approved and added by... somebody, just not quite sure who. I'm fairly certain that they do have at least some people on staff, likely paid, as IMDB is owned by Amazon.com. As for the details of what I was talking about, you can see the original discussion at Talk:David Al Talaqani. Among the gems that made it past whatever 'screening' process they may have in place (assuming they have one at all) was that Wrex's name was misspelled, and is actually Urdnott Wrex. SpartHawg948 00:51, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Absolutely incredible. That's hilarious. Go IMDB! -- Dammej ( talk ) 00:56, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Made for quite an interesting conversation. And that's why IMDB is no bueno. At least, not as a primary source. SpartHawg948 00:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Sitenotice
Since you couldn't think of anything for the Anonnotice, I thought I would look around and see if there was anything. However some wikis have similar things to us about logging in and joining. Also I think it is short and to the point. However I really wanted to talk about the Sitenotice. The sitenotice is that thing that sometimes pops down for registered users, and always for Unregistered Users. It can be dismissed, but will come down again when something new is posted. Since Unregistered Users only get the links to the Style Guide and Community Guidelines after they edit, this may help cut down on unnecessary edits, I can hope please don't kill that. However some sites use it as a way for some sites to alert users for debates, new features, or requests for general help, not something specific like we would use the Projects Forum for. I have five wikis that I found some examples. Halopedia, The Vault, Gearspedia, Stargate Wiki, and the World of Warcraft Wiki. Thoughts about our own? Yes I know that this was a wall of text. Lancer1289 04:16, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * What do you mean it 'sometimes pops down for registered users'? I don't much like the sound of that. SpartHawg948 04:25, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess I didn't explain that well did I, fail. Once it's dismissed the first time, it has been my experience from other wikis that it doesn't come back up until it is updated again. Again that is my exeperience. Also since it is a MediaWiki page, only admins and staff can edit it, so we don't have to worry anyone editing it at random. If you give the go ahead, then I can do a sandbox of it first, but that will probably be up tomorrow. Or do you have more questions? Lancer1289 04:35, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Um... yeah, I have plenty more questions, which is why not once have I mentioned going ahead with this. It had been my impression that all the site notice did was sit at the top of the page looking pretty. Maybe I'm mistaken, but I can't recall seeing one of these ever 'pop up' even once, whether as a registered or unregistered user. If it sits unobtrusively on the sidelines (metaphorically) I'm cool with it. If it doesn't, and anything that needs to be dismissed even once qualifies as "doesn't", then I'm not so cool with it. Like Commander Shepard, I also hate pop-ups. Additionally, what would go in it? This seems like something that would need to be figured out well before any sandboxing takes place. Do we want long-term, or short-term? How specific? Weighted more towards registered or unregistered users? Pointing out events like new games and books, or site activities? Stuff like that. SpartHawg948 04:41, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you may not be cool with it because I believe that every time it is updated, it has to be dismissed again. However once it is dismissed, it doens't come back until it is updated. I think it is a tool that wikia provides for site admins to let users know about things that are happening, like the RTE debate. From my experience most gear it towards unregestered users and new users to help them integrate into the community. Other announcements appear to be for seasoned users to let them know about events or new things like a new admin or something like that. Or even general announcements about betas for games, I know they did that on the StarCraft wiki. The content we could put into there would be like links to the MoS and community guidelines. And for a debate in the policy forum, we could put something there and link people to the appropiate place.
 * About the updating thing, I can ask JoePlay about it to get confirmation if you like. Actually I'm going to do that anyway before I turn in for the night because I am unsure about it. Lancer1289 04:57, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I've never seen one of these pop up for me. On any wiki. And I peruse many wikis, frequently. Again, if it sits unobtrusively somewhere on the edge of the page, like at the top or something, I'm cool with it. But I'm not cool with pop-ups. SpartHawg948 05:00, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh now I know what you ment, facepalm for not gettting it. It's that thing that sometimes pops up at the top of the page above the page's title bar. Lancer1289 05:03, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That thing doesn't pop up at all. I didn't even know that they could be dismissed till now, as I've never noticed that option. I honestly don't see any point to making it oriented towards new users, as if the auto-welcome message doesn't get to them, I don't see what will. I suppose that using it for things like pointing out policy discussions could work, although personally (this may not translate right into text) I'm not too keen on advertising that stuff to unregistered users, lest some enterprising vandals decide they can create more havoc vandalizing policy discussions than they can with regular articles. And DLC and game and comic announcements can be kind of sporadic. So, where it stands now is: I'm not opposed to using the site notice, I'm just not sure what to put there. Maybe we should bring this up in a forum discussion, either of the policy or the project nature? SpartHawg948 05:10, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well at least we know what we are talking about now, no thanks to me on any level. However I can see that about policy forums being a bad idea, as most users notice it themselves. As to getting input, I think I can do that on the Projects Forum, as this falls more into that category. I'll start that up so we can get some input about what can go there. That sound good? Lancer1289 05:15, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that sounds good. Sorry if I seem a bit short right now. I'm feeling rather agitated all of a sudden as the result of a recent blog entry that manages to be poorly-informed, in poor taste, and totally unsuitable for the wiki all at the same time. But yeah, the project forum sounds good. I'll try and think of something too, though at the moment I'm drawing a blank, likely because of all the red I'm seeing. :P SpartHawg948 05:17, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I figured since you commented on that blog, that didn't put you in a good mood, it certainly didn't for me. I hate political debates, as they never go anywhere, especially on this wiki, and he was very misinformed. Since when does 50,000 troops still in Iraq mean that we had pulled out? Not in your book, nor mine. Their mission may have changed from combat to non-combat roles, and please do forgive the civilian here if I'm misinterpreting it, but they are still there, which means we haven't pulled out. Combat troops, according to the news, yes, but we are still there. Again please correct me if I am wrong because I like to stay informed and have the correct information. Lancer1289 05:27, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the troops who are there are most definitely combat troops. You don't leave 50,000 noncombat troops in a country. Combat troops and aircraft are still there, in a combat role, and will be for quite some time. The only thing different is that there are no longer 'combat' brigades in Iraq. Now they're advise and assist brigades. Literally all this does is change the name of the units there. That's all. Remember, the U.S. troops fighting in Vietnam were also there to 'advise and assist' for most of the war. Today's 'changes' really change nothing. It was all political BS, and anyone who holds it up as some big new thing does nothing other than display their alarming ignorance of the military situation. Not that you did, as you are actively seeking knowledge. But the ignorant... person who started that blog making it sound like all of a sudden no Americans are in Iraq and the war is suddenly over is alarmingly ignorant. Sorry, but this kind of ignorance in the civilian populace disgusts me, quite frankly. We're willing to fight and die for these people, the least they could do is take a few minutes to get informed, instead of buying the spin from self-serving politicians. SpartHawg948 05:54, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S. Apologies for the delay in response, got held up talking to the roommates in the living room. SpartHawg948 06:08, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed I hold anyone who serves and/or served in the military in the highest respect for reasons that you have already stated to more than one person. So just a name change and I see the history connection to Vietnam.
 * I also like to be accuratly informed about things as the news, and espeically politicians twist things to their advantage, which is both annoying the case here. Oh and don't worry about the time, althrough I am going to turn in soon. So I fell much more informed about the situation now so thank you for that, but I do have a question, ok two:
 * Wouldn't it be better to have one full brigade deployed rather than two half ones, or parts from three or four brigades? In my mind that doesn't make much sense. Or is this a result of political pressure? I have a felling that I already know the answer to that one. 06:12, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Resetting all these indents. Yeah, it's all politics. Nothing but. Change the names, rename the 'combat' brigades, so that even though they do the exact same thing, now they're called 'advise and assist' brigades. That way Obama can claim to have kind-of, sort-of met his promise to pull troops out. It doesn't matter that they're still there, still fighting, and still dying. Now he can spin it. Now his cronies can tell the media and the ill-informed masses, the great unwashed, that they can rest easy, since the war is over. It's all about the spin. They're sitting there hoping the people will buy it, and from what we've seen here on this very site, it's working at least a little bit. SpartHawg948 06:20, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * And you are correct. Full brigades that work together and fall under one command do fight better and more effectively than do ad hoc groupings. SpartHawg948 06:22, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, and apologies if this causes edit conflict, this is a perfect example of why people need to keep these contentious political issues off the wiki. It only causes trouble. Someone is going to take offense, no matter what. I occasionally post minor matters, like the whole NASA-Muslim outreach thing, but discussion of contentious political issues has no place in the community we're trying to foster here. Some people just don't get that. SpartHawg948 06:26, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope, missed the conflict this time around. And yes, I would have to agree that stuff needs to stay off the wiki. It never turns out good and always results in an argument because everyone has an opinion, and takes offence when someone doesn’t share it. It is really counterproductive to what we are trying to do here, and I also wish people would get that. Political discussions never end well as we have seen in the past. As to Iraq, I fell even more informed about this situation, and about military units, so again thanks Spart. Lancer1289 06:33, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Cool! At least some good came out of this. Any time knowledge springs forth from ignorance, it's a good thing. It's funny too, because in that blog post the guy talks about celebrating the end of this war, but in the article I linked to (which literally took me 10 seconds to find), a spokesman for the Pentagon says "I don't think anybody has declared the end of the war as far as I know". Well, one person has. But yeah, knowledge springs forth! Always a good thing! :) SpartHawg948 06:36, August 20, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding the Alliance Navy cruiser deletion
Sources of deleted cruiser info placed under Alliance Navy cruiser

Found under carriers in the codex "Cruisers fit a handful in the space between the interior pressure hulls and exterior armor." Clearly states they at least have and deploy them therefore some sort of "bay"/launch and recovery method is needed and would have to be present.

Under Javelin in the codex “Javelin mounts are most often fitted on swift frigates, which expect to enter "knife fight" torpedo ranges as a matter of course. Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults.” A cruiser would qualify as a “heavier ship” as it even points out they are even used on dreadnoughts.NightsKnight 02:24, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, the Codex entry you cite demonstrates that cruisers do not have a bay for fighters. Rather, they have a space between hulls to place them, similar to the manner in which Recusant class destroyers do. Spaces between hulls and bays are not synonymous. As such, the Codex entry you cite (which was actually the one I was prepared to cite as rebuttal), actually disproves the presence of fighter bays. Additionally, interpreting 'cruisers' from 'heavier ships', while likely true, is extrapolation, i.e. speculation. SpartHawg948 02:27, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Especially in light of the fact that, upon further examination, the 'even used on dreadnoughts' bit you state is in the entries is... not. It says that they are particularly useful for dreadnoughts. It makes no statements about heavier ships, even dreadnoughts using them. SpartHawg948 02:32, August 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults. They are particularly useful in this role for dreadnoughts, which are unable to lay their main guns on targets at close range.", so these lines are just speculation on part of the writers’, who are just saying “yeah they could do it and it would be particularly useful but were not saying they do”? not buying it. and random ship to compare it to whose fighters are droids and that article still implies they are used not just stored there with no means of launch or recovery. I mean think, what kind of warship would leave room for and carry a group of fighters if it did not intend to use them, that’s poor strategy if I’ve ever seen it. NightsKnight 03:01, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I'm not buying that "Javelins may also be fitted on heavier ships during short range engagements, such as trans-relay assaults. They are particularly useful in this role for dreadnoughts, which are unable to lay their main guns on targets at close range." has anything to do with cruisers. Notice how many times cruisers were brought up there. None. So no, the only speculation would be inserting cruisers into that sentence. And once again, a space between the hulls used to store fighters is not the same as dedicated fighter bays. Cruisers carry fighters, but as the Codex specifically notes, do not have sufficient space for dedicated hangers (aka bays) for them, and as such store them in the ships baffles. You seem to not get that fighters do not need specialized bays or hangers to operate from warships, either in the real world, or in the fictional world of Mass Effect, as is demonstrated by the Codex. Your interpretation of strategy matters not at all here. It never said they don't use the fighters, just that they don't have dedicated facilities for them, and as such have to make do with what they have. SpartHawg948 03:08, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * It turns out that we were actually talking about different Codex entries for how cruisers carry fighters. You mentioned the Carriers entry, while I was referring to the Ablative Armor entry, which gives more detail about how cruisers store their fighters when it says: "Cruisers, which lack the internal space to fit dedicated fighter hangers, store the shipboard fighter complement in the baffles", with baffles being defined as empty space between layers of armor. Pretty cut-and-dry, that. This is where I was coming from. The Codex explicitly states that cruisers do not have dedicated hangers or bays for fighters. SpartHawg948 04:19, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Three days later and it's all quiet. Looks like we can chalk this one up as a victory for canonicity, speculation-busting, and good old common sense! Huzzah! SpartHawg948 01:26, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Two Things
Hi Hawg! How is it going? Everything good?

I'm just curious about something. These two  articles here; I was going through their edit history and noticed a lot of people had added how these asari were hinted on in ME2 (that they were killed during the Battle of the Citadel). However, every single one of those edits was removed/undone. My question is: Is there any particular reason for this? I know it's speculation, but really, isn't it pretty much obvious -- since that one asari explicitly says one worked as a secretary for the Consort and the other as a receptionist at the Embassies? Why don't we include those notes under a Speculation block at least?

Another thing I'd like to ask you about: I have noticed that Thane's wife, Irikah Krios, has no article on her. I think there is sufficient info to create an article about her. What do you think? Fiery Phoenix 09:03, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, let's see here. First off, I'm well, and everything is going pretty good, thanks for asking! The only problem is that I'm currently dying of boredom waiting for all the awesome games that are coming out soon. Other than that though, no complaints.


 * Now, as to the issues at hand. In regards to Erinya and her daughters, the issue is that it is possible but not definite that her daughters were Nelyna and Saphyria. After all, there were several asari seen working at the Consort's chambers, any one of whom could be Erinya's daughter, and while Saphyria is the only asari we see working at the embassy, she is far from the only one who actually works there, given that the asari themselves also likely maintain an embassy. Basically, there's no proof that they are Erinya's daughters. No matter how obvious it may seem to some, it's still speculation. She explicitly says what her daughters did, but never actually names them. And starting up 'Speculation' sections only invites trouble. I know we do currently have one article with such a section (the Rachni article), but even that one seems like too much to me, and it has a lot more to support it than does the theory that Nelyna and Saphyria are Erinya's daughters, which is based on nothing more than those two being the right race (a very common race on the Citadel, btw), and working in the right locations.


 * As for Irikah, I'm not really sure that there would be enough info for an article. However, if you feel otherwise, feel free to create one, or at the very least draw one up as a sandbox article. If it does have enough info, it'll be fine, and even if it doesn't, the worst case scenario would be deletion or possibly a merger into the Thane Krios article. SpartHawg948 09:20, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Wow! You totally didn't have to write all that. A simple two-liners would have been more than enough. Thanks, though! :)

It now makes sense to me why those edits were undone. So no worries there anymore. As far as Irikah goes, I'll see what I can do. Even if I do end up creating an article about her, it will hardly be anything past three or four lines. But I think she should be added just for the sake of adding her, since she's a major part of Thane's backstory and is mentioned more than once by him (even more so if you romance him).

Thanks again. I'll let you know once I've reached a decision as to whether or not to include an Irikah article. Fiery Phoenix 09:35, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem! I aim to please. You had questions, so it was my goal to answer them to the best of my ability! As for the Irikah article, there may very well be enough info, I just honestly don't talk to Thane as much as I do to many of the other squad members. And just because it's three or four lines doesn't mean it's not enough. If the article contains sufficient info, it's pretty safe in my book. After all, we keep the Lystheni article around despite knowing next to nothing about them, so as long as the info is good, the article should be fine. SpartHawg948 09:39, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Another Screenshot question
Just when you thought it was safe to view this Wiki...

Sparthawg, since the Combat section roused concerns, I wish to get your opinion on a shot before I add it to an article (N7: Abandoned Research Station). The file is File:Jarrahe - Shepard meets VI.png, and it comes from the CGI cutscene at the assignment's end (I wish to add a shot of the VI, but they all include Shepard in some form). Clearly, Shepard is completely covered, and viewed from the back, but... it's still Shepard! Is this taboo? Thanks. --AnotherRho 17:11, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just me throwing my two cents here, but I don't think it should go in. We only allow exceptions on the armor pages, romance sections, and at the top of Shepard's article. Even though Shepard is covered, I don't think it should go into the article. Lancer1289 18:07, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks Lancer. Looking again at the article, it seems to have enough screenshots anyway.  The pic is uploaded, so I suppose someone could look for "Jarrahe" shots and find it.  --AnotherRho 18:16, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem, but the other problem I have is the "Locked by Station VI" pic. I suppose I can let that one go, but it does have Shepard in it. Ture hard to tell, but I'm not too sure. I'll leave it until Spart logs on to get his opinion. Lancer1289 18:27, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Whatever. I just woke up and am not in the mood to get all nitpicky. Shep is obscured by the 'Locked by VI' thingy. If Lancer says he can let that one slide, so can I. SpartHawg948 19:22, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very well. Lancer1289 19:24, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Blogs
While I am against regulating blogs, this blog, and blogs like it are really starting to make me think we need to have some regulation on them. Personally I don't think that blog is very appropiate and I can see it getting into a huge debate, and there has already been language on it. Thoughts? Lancer1289 19:21, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a stupid post, and at least one or two of the people who have posted have displayed their own ignorance (much like another blog that recently went up), but nothing there is blatantly over the line. At least, nothing I saw, as it's always possible my grogginess caused me to overlook something. It's just people being stupid and trying to get attention. If it does get over the line, sure, but I don't see the issue yet. If the offensive Iraq blog can stay, this one seems fine too. SpartHawg948 19:28, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, and it looks like I'm not the only person who woke up late today. Anyway I guess there hasn't been anything over the line yet. Lancer1289 19:33, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Intrusion Attempt
Hey SpartHawg, I thought I'd just let you know that (BE SURE YOU HAVE A FIREWALL BEFORE CLICKING THIS LINK!) this blog launches an intrusion attempt. My Norton Personal Firewall keeps blocking it, but I thought you might want to fix the problem/contact SoulRipper/delete the blog. Arbington 20:30, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry if I cause a edit conflict but that links leads to a dead link and a blog that SoulRipper hasn't created. I think you ment to link this. Anyway I don't get the intrusion attempt, but I have Kaspersky, which is great, but it handles a lot of things in the background, so maybe it does it there. However for viruses I to get a notification, and I don't get it. I don't know what Spart has or if he gets it, but I don't. Lancer1289 20:39, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've got AVG, and I didn't notice anything either. But, if you did, then this does need to be addressed. SpartHawg948 20:45, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found this link a ways back on the "My Home" "Activity Feed" section. It keeps doing this to me, but then again this may just be an issue with my computer, so I guess I'll run a full system check. Watch out though, just in case. In the words of the great Han Solo, "I have a bad feeling about this.". Arbington 20:48, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I asked SoulRipper about it, so for now we'll see if it happens to anyone else. If anyone else reports it, the blog is gone. SpartHawg948 20:51, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed that is how I usually get to things, however I didn't notice it from there or the RC. I do agree that if this does happen again to someone else, then the blog needs to go. I don't want to give anyone viruses from the site. Lancer1289 20:56, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

It's likely benign. I'm just guessing here (but it's an educated guess!), but I think that Norton is just detecting the characters "./" in the address "...Mass_Effect_2_playthrough./Fridge..." as being potentially dangerous. It's sorta complicated (and I lack the ability to articulate this well), but those two characters when used together have special meaning when used for directory traversal. Using these special characters, one can trick software (like a wiki) into giving an attacker access to directories that they don't normally allow public access to. I'm pretty sure that wikia is immune to this sort of attack, or it would have been hacked for years and years now. The heuristic from the firewall is probably just being oversensitive, as this is obviously not an attack, just an unfortunate coincidence. There's absolutely nothing that could harm your computer either. If you trust the webserver that the software is running on (wikia's servers), then you can safely ignore the warning. You may wish to report the false positive to Norton though. (If that's possible)-- Dammej ( talk ) 20:58, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I hate Norton. It'll tell you that just about anything is a virus. I just thought it should be brought to everyone's attention, in case this really was a virus and others were affected. Also, Lancer, by "a ways back", I meant clicking the "See More Recent Activity" button at the bottom of the RC. It's in there. The edit was made thirteen hours ago by SoulRipper, right between an edit to "Talk:Project Firewalker: Rosalie Lost" and an edit to "Tali'Zorah nar Rayya" Either way, Dammej has a good explanation, and no one else is seeing anything, so I guess it's a false alarm. As for me, I'm going back to avast!. Arbington 21:34, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * One question...How can I delete a blog? I didnt found that to the Help. SoulRipper 21:49, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, as it turns out, you don't have to delete anything. Norton was just making false assumptions about the part where it said "./". Sorry. Arbington 21:53, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, just in case. I just want to know.SoulRipper 21:59, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Well, I've never had to do so myself, but if I had to guess how, I'd say you probably just go to "Edit This Page" and delete the content of the Blog. Just a guess. Arbington 22:05, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ashely
I must disagree with lancer,my blog about ash being ugly is fine,im only viocing my option, I dont know why I was called ignorant.Legionwrex 22:24, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

and why did you have to call it a "stupid post" Legionwrex 22:25, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I have to once again inform you that Lancer was not talking about anything you said. As for why I called it a stupid post, it's because I think it is. It's a post about something that is silly, extremely subjective, and that invites people to make ignorant comments like "Ashley is a racist bigot". It's my opinion. I don't criticize you for expressing your opinion, and I would appreciate it if you don't come onto my talk page to criticize me for expressing mine. SpartHawg948 22:42, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I was not criticising you, I was ask why you called it stupid wich I took offense to. And when you say you must once again reply,you should know this was posted before you responded.Legionwrex 22:50, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it was. However, I did have to once again reply, did I not? I had to reply more than once, in more than one location. Thus, I stated that I had to 'once again' inform you. A simple look at the history of the blog, of the comments, and a look at the talk page of the offending user would have shown that you were not the target of Lancer's comments, as opposed to simply jumping to the conclusion that you were. Sorry, but I dislike it when people jump to conclusions that could easily be avoided by doing a little research. Not once did I call you stupid, just said that I thought it was a stupid post. AN intelligent person can bring up stupid topics from time to time, can they not? The fact that you took offense where clearly none was intended is no fault of my own. SpartHawg948 22:55, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

I have know idea how to look up what you just said.I have told you im new to wikia, and I only know the basics like editing and bloging. Im considering deleting the page do to all the contraversy. Legionwrex 23:02, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Then you could have simply asked Lancer on his user page or something "Hey, was that me you were referring to, or was it someone else?" Instead of calling him out as wrong and disagreeing with him without having a full understanding of the situation. Even with little or no knowledge of how the wiki works, it's easy to do research. It's also easy to avoid controversy before it even begins by not starting the blog in the first place, or to decide that it's causing controversy and try to stop it while the controversy is actually happening, instead of several hours later. Long story short, I stand by all comments I have made that you took issue with. SpartHawg948 23:06, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Ok fair enough, how do I delete it. Legionwrex 23:11, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Become an admin. As far as I know, only admins can delete blogs. SpartHawg948 23:13, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

Then premote me to admin, just kidding.Please delete it spart. Legionwrex 23:14, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

thanks for deleting it Legionwrex 23:19, August 21, 2010 (UTC)

M-920 Cain slug
Hey I managed to get a screenshot of the M-920 Cain slug. Can it be used? No HUD elements for sure. SoulRipper 23:48, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * With an image like this, it's probably a good idea that you give a link to the picture first. Considering this may be a ball of flame for all I know. I would like to see it first, but that's me. Lancer1289 23:52, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Impossible to answer without seeing the screenshot. (Please note, this is not a request to have the image placed here on my talk page. I don't want images here.) SpartHawg948 23:53, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course you have to see it. Thats what I was asking. Here it is: M-920 Cain slug SoulRipper 00:03, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sigh... why do I even bother asking when no one listens? SpartHawg948 23:58, August 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * You could have just posted a link to the image and we'd have seen it. Overall I honestly don't care if it does, just the placement will be the issue. Lancer1289 00:00, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose maybe somewhere like the top of the trivia section? SpartHawg948 00:11, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either that or the Player Notes section. Lancer1289 00:16, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I guess I'll play around and see where it fits. Lancer1289 00:59, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose maybe somewhere like the top of the trivia section? SpartHawg948 00:11, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either that or the Player Notes section. Lancer1289 00:16, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I guess I'll play around and see where it fits. Lancer1289 00:59, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Khalisah al-Jilani
I found a screenshot that I took when I first punched her in ME2.

Khalisah al-Jilani Hammer Smashed Face

(I was listening Cannibal Corpse when I took that screenshot) SoulRipper 10:12, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... So, is there a point to this? If so, I must have missed it. SpartHawg948 10:14, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Maybe put next to where the article says about punching her.SoulRipper 10:33, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see that happening. One, there are already two images there, and that's about all an article of that length can support. Two, it's a fairly poor-quality image, especially when compared with the two that are already there. SpartHawg948 10:40, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok no problem.SoulRipper 11:51, August 22, 2010 (UTC)

Archiving Article Talk Pages
Since we have all the issues of archiving article talk pages, sytle of archive box, the image, and the guidelines I sent to you in the email, which was at your old address, I was thinking of posting the information that I sent you in the email and starting to look around for talk pages to archive. What do you think, or do you think that it is still unresolved with the image?

Oh and two other things, your favorite "whilst" editor was back, and I dropped him another message about changing things. I think the next time we see it, I was thinking a three month ban would be in order. Also GrandMoffVixen did contact me about deleting his blogs, and after confirming it, deleted them. Lancer1289 23:31, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, go ahead and post it. As far as the editor, yeah, I've noticed. Some people just never get it. SpartHawg948 23:38, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very well then. However I just realized I forgot to link the template I plan to use for the header. I think you were ok with it a while ago, but I just wanted to double check. The template was designed to attact people's attention and tell them not to edit there. If you don't like the template, then we can use the current Archived template. In the mean time, I'll post the regulations in the Community Guidelines. Lancer1289 23:43, August 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Posted in the Community Guidelines, just messed up on the headline. I just wanted to get your opinion on the template first before I moved it into the mainspace. Lancer1289 00:22, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * One change I'd make. The last line reads "If an issue that is on this page that needs to be brought up again, please do it on the main talk page, NOT here. Thanks" (emphasis added) There are two 'that's in the first sentence, one of which needs removed. I'd recommend removing the second 'that', thereby changing it to "If an issue that is on this page need to be brought up again"... SpartHawg948 00:28, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whoops I guess I missed that. I'll remove the second one and them move it into the mainspace. How did I miss that. Lancer1289 00:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Simple mistake. I can easily see it going either way, either as "If an issue that is on the page needs to be brought up again", or "If there is an issue on the page that needs to be brought up again". Either way would have worked, and it was likely just a little jumble in the train of thought. Happens to me all the time. SpartHawg948 00:39, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think at the time I was trying to have my cake and eat it too. Oh well mistakes happen. Anyway I was thinking of archiving Talk:Mass Effect 2 and Talk:Mass Effect 2 Guide to get the ball rolling. I'm pretty sure those are the two largest one and the former really needs it. I might have to do two. Lancer1289 00:54, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Wow that removed a lot of content, and the pages look a lot better now. We'll just have to look around for more, but I think I got the major two. Lancer1289 01:37, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

As I am currenlty just going through long talk pages, I was just thinking I'd get your opinion on a few things. I was just wanted your opinion on these two things first. What I was thinking about doing was to archive the other sections of Kasumi's page, and leaving the KotOR II thing on the main talk page. As for Shep's page, I was thinking of archiving it anyway and fixing the link on Shepard's page for the date thing. Lancer1289 04:57, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Since the G0-T0 trivia seems to keep coming up when it's least expected, in fact by my estimate, we're due for another edit on that this week sometime, I was thinking of leaving that on the main talk page instead of archiving it. If that sounds like a bad idea, then I propose a for link at the top of the page linking to the section in the archive.
 * 2) I was thinking of archiving Sheaprd's talk page, but since we just had an edit to a section that would have been archived, I was wondering what to do in that case.
 * I don't really like the idea of archiving a talk page but snipping one section out of the middle and leaving it on the active page. Maybe it's just me, but that just seems like it could get confusing. I'd suggest just archiving it and maybe either leaving a new notice, or not and then if/when someone else posts a Kasumi/G0-T0 thing, we can maybe put something else on the talk page. After all, does the thread on the talk page really seem to be stopping anybody? As for the other one, I'd suggest maybe just waiting another day or two to see if there's any more Shep b-day posts, and if not, it should be good to archive. SpartHawg948 05:08, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I wait until Wednesday for Shepard's page then. As for Kasumi's, I can see how that would be confusing. What I was thinking of doing is putting a for tag at the top linking to the section in the archive. The for tag at the top would maybe stop it, but if it keeps happening, then a new notice will go up. How does that sound? Lancer1289 05:12, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. SpartHawg948 05:14, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks again for the consult. Lancer1289 05:15, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Relevance
Hello there. A little question about relevance, since my edit was rolled back with such note - How the relevance is tracked and how to provide relevant (from my point of view) information? Here is the story - I was confused on why squad is not following my commands - may be I'm doing something wrong. So I've opened wiki, typed 'squad' and the article 'Squad' appeared, which in fact told me nothing I was interested in, just some dry and obvious encyclopaedic excerpts. Next, I'm googling on how to control the squad and getting link back to the wiki but to the article Combat (actually I was not in combat, I was just trying to find the proper way to muster the team since they stuck somewhere in the path). Now, if direct mentioning of such irrelevant information is not allowed, probably some footnotes are allowed, like 'See also'? I'm asking because it's not the first time I faced with this, but first time I've decided to correct it %) You made a great work here, indeed, but being TES fan I've used to uespwiki style, where all related information is gathered on topic, even if it looks redundant %)

Rufferson 17:52, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't tell you why the edit was undone, you'd really need to talk to the editor who undid it. As for relevance, it's kind of a subjective matter. There are things that are obviously relevant (for instance, with Squad, the fact that squads typically consist of Shepard and two squad members) and things that obviously aren't (such as the fact that squad members will sometimes make random comments based on location). Were we to allow every little bit of info into an article, these things would be huge and unwieldy, loaded down with info that really helps the average reader not at all. We actually kind of pride ourselves on it, and have been complimented by administrators of other wikis for having set this standard. And, while I like the UESP wiki, I can definitely state with no fear of contradiction that they do not gather all information on topics in articles, even if it looks redundant. I've gone there several times looking for info to instead find threadbare articles that tell me nothing. I do agree that a "See Also" section was warranted in the Squad article, and it has since been added. If there's anything else I can help you with, please don't hesitate to ask! :) SpartHawg948 20:08, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Since I am said editor I guess I'll say why. Given the content of the article, having something about controlling squadmates in combat made no sense in the article, and especially the way it was worded. That belongs in the Combat or Combat (Mass Effect 2) articles, whichever is more appropriate. Unless we wanted to expand the Squad page to include that kind of thing, which would have been unnecessary in my eyes, considering that information should be covered in the Combat articles, where it is more relevant and where it should be, considering it is about combat. Lancer1289 20:21, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for explanation, will try to follow the line :) Rufferson 21:23, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem. Lancer1289 21:43, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

Dates
I've just got different situations where I'd use that. I prefer dates the September 7, 2010 way for almost everything under the sun, it's only with formal things (papers mostly, and my check book and letters) that I ever use 7 September 2010. That, and I want to keep date formats consistent in the news. I'm prone to splitting hairs. :) -- Commdor (Talk) 22:09, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

And while I'm here, for some reason your talk page displays weirdly. That ME Wiki logo in the upper left corner is gone, and that causes some other stuff to appear skewed. Might just be me, my laptop's on its last legs; the mouse pad quit on me last week, the only fix is a new motherboard, and some sites like IGN have trouble displaying. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:12, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I'm noticing the same thing with my talk page. No logo or anything. I suspect it's yet another issue with Wikia, as they seem to be having some issues again. And yes, I prefer the dating system I use on a daily basis, i.e. 7 September as opposed to September 7 (or 7th), and saw no need to add 2010, as that seemed blatantly obvious. SpartHawg948 22:23, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to note I am also having that problem, so also think it’s Wikia. Also is anyone else getting a lot of lag lately? As to the dates, while I'm here, I don't have a preference either way, but I think consistency would be important here. Lancer1289 22:28, August 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. Tons of lag both here and on other Wikia wikis. Gotta love it... When Wikia works, it's great. When it doesn't work, not so much... SpartHawg948 22:33, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

A few things
Well I noticed that you are staying up later, and if I'm not mistaken, until about four or five in the morning from my calculations. I was just curious is there any reason for this?

Second I was thinking of modding the DLC subsection on the sidebar. For Mass Effect 2, diving it into to categories for Mission Packs and Armor and Weapon Packs, I think the names could be better. What I was thinking was:
 * Mission Packs: Normandy Crash Site, Zaeed - The Price of Revenge, Firewalker Pack, Kasumi - Stolen Memory, and Overlord.
 * Armor and Weapon Packs: Blood Dragon Armor, Inferno Armor, Terminus Weapon and Armor, Collectors' Weapon and Armor, Cerberus Weapon and Armor, Arc Projector, Alternate Appearance Pack, Equalizer Pack, Aegis Pack, Firepower Pack.

Again just do you think about. I was planning on adding LotSB on the 7th once it comes out, or do you think it should go on the menu now?

Third: Just a small niggle with the Cerberus DLC Footer. Since it is on every page that is part of a DLC pack, like Kasumi Goto, Zaeed Massani, and Cerberus Assault Armor, I was just thinking that it should be on the pack pages themselves. Also since the Blood Dragon Armor, the M-29 Incisor, and Inferno Armor, since they were included as part of preorder bonuses or part of a special edition of the game. I was also thinking of adding the M-29 to the sidebar as well for the same reasons as the armors are there. Again can I just get some opinions about that. Thanks. Lancer1289 13:18, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * No reason. I've been staying up later because I haven't been going to sleep earlier. As for dividing DLC up into subsections, I don't see the need to. DLC is DLC, not matter if it's weapons and armor, or missions. And there are some that are mission DLCs with new weapons and armor. I don't see any reason Lair of the Shadow Broker can't go into the DLC menu now. It's not like it'll be any more DLC on 7 September than it is now, it'll just be released DLC as opposed to upcoming. Finally, sure, put the Incisor there. SpartHawg948 19:38, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then two additions coming up. However about my third point with the template, what do you think on that one? Personally I think we should add the Blood Dragon, Inferno, and Incisor rifle to the template, as I learned that they are downloaded seperatly for the PC version, and removing the template from the non-pack pages like Zaeed's and Kasumi's pages. Lancer1289 19:50, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That one is a given. It should already be on all those pages already. However, given that Kasumi and Zaeed are only available through DLC, I don't see any reason to remove the template from their pages. SpartHawg948 19:55, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll add them then, but the thing I with the template is that it currently lists the packs, and not the individual parts. The M-490 Blackstorm and the Terminus Assault Armor don't have the template because they are part of the Terminus Weapon and Armor DLC pack. I think the template was used for navigating the packs, rather than all of the individual components of the packs. Lancer1289 20:00, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno. I just figured that as without a doubt the two most prominent DLC items (they're squad members after all) it couldn't hurt to have the templates on their pages. As an added reminder that 'these two squad members are only available through DLC'. That's just my opinion though. SpartHawg948 20:03, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I can see that. In that case, I'll add it to the rest of the pages that are missing the template then. Lancer1289 20:14, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... not sure why it's being added to pages like the M-96 Mattock or M-12 Locust, but whatever, that works too I guess. SpartHawg948 20:28, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is what I was trying to get at. Pages like the weapon pages for the DLC weapons, Kausmi, and Zaeed's pages I didn't see a need for the template because they are part of a DLC pack. The template was already present on several DLC only pages, like the M-22 and Cerberus Assault Armor, so if they are on some, then consistency is nice. 20:32, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I made my case for Kasumi and Zaeed (and only Kasumi and Zaeed, as you'll note that I never mentioned weapons or brought them into the discussion at all. and I actually went to great lengths to make clear that this was only to apply to Kasumi and Zaeed for the sole reason that they are squad members) above. I could quote my entire previous post again, but I don't see the point. Even though it's in no way what I was suggesting, as is made clear by my comments, the current version works well enough. SpartHawg948 20:34, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well then I misinterperated you, which I have had a problem with recently, curse classes starting. I can see the case for Kasumi and Zaeed, so I can just remove it from the weapon and armor pages and keep it on Kasumi's and Zaeed's page. Or just leave it everywhere, you pick as my brain seems to be fuzzy lately. Lancer1289 20:39, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, for the third time, it looks fine the way it is. It's not what I intended or suggested, but it works. SpartHawg948 20:41, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I only have two left, so I'll finish it off. Oh and my sincerest apologies for the headache and aggravation that I have just caused you. Lancer1289 20:43, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I missed the collector weapons pack. And as I discovered it was never added to the Template in the first place. Probably an oversight from the DLC overhaul a few months back. I have added the template to the last of the page and again my apoligies for the headache I caused. Lancer1289 21:09, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Documentaries
Ok now I have to ask. Since you keep posting about documentaries, and about some good topics I might add, where do you find them? Lancer1289 21:55, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Netflix. They have all sorts of documentaries available for instant streaming to PCs or Xbox 360s. SpartHawg948 21:57, August 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. Maybe I'll consider that once I get gold later next month. Thanks for the info. Lancer1289 22:01, August 24, 2010 (UTC)

Codex Audio
Hey, if you have the time, can you swing by Talk:Codex and take a listen to the sample codex entry I provided? I have some ideas for how to include the audio files in the article, but I don't want to devote a lot of attention to it if you don't think the sound quality is up to snuff. Thanks! -- Dammej ( talk ) 04:08, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no ability to form an opinion, as I can't get it to play. It says that I need a Quicktime update, I follow the link provided to a Wikia page informing me that every version of Firefox since version 3.5 already supports this update (which I find odd, seeing as I have version 3.6.8 and it still says I need it), then Quicktime crashes, taking Firefox with it. So yeah, I have no idea whether the quality is up to snuff. SpartHawg948 05:28, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Weird. I actually don't have quicktime installed, so I haven't attempted this option. I'll look into it some more... -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:32, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Figured it out. The way it's set up now, it was trying to run it through Quicktime, causing the above issues even though it should have worked fine (seeing as I have the latest versions of Firefox and Quicktime), but this time after it crapped out, I was able to get it to use 'Native Browser Support'. If it's just me, well, that's that. But it may be an issue with the file itself, which is making me kind of reluctant. SpartHawg948 05:46, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Yeah, as I said, I don't have quicktime. I'll install it (despite my extreme hatred of apple software on the PC), and see if it happens for me too. It would be quite unfortunate if Quicktime for some reason couldn't play the file. -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:49, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was something about how an .ogg file needed XiphQT to play. If that helps at all. It's all Greek to me, so I don't know. Quality sounded good, as I'll assert here in a minute on the appropriate page. SpartHawg948 05:55, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I got the same thing in FF, but not chrome. Shows the error message, then shortly after, stops responding. It looks like a bug common to either Firefox or Quicktime though, as this happens on at least one other page on wikipedia (for me) also: See Zombie Nation (don't ask...). Actually, now that I've been doing this for a long time, it's stopped crashing altogether, even with the sample file I uploaded. Super weird. It's not much consolation, but at least it's not the file causing the issue.
 * For what it's worth, the message about XiphQT deals with Quicktime itself, not with Firefox or the file specifically... ogg files do not yet have common usage, so they're not supported by default in quicktime (yet...?). To play them in quicktime, a plugin for quicktime is needed. But the website does point out that firefox has built-in support for ogg, so there's no need to use quicktime. If we could somehow disable quicktime from being the default option, that'd be ideal... but I doubt we have the capability to do that on our end. Another thing to ask the Wikia staff I suppose. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:27, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

Looks like all we need to do to get Quicktime demoted below the "Native Browser" support is update the "OggHandler" extension for the wiki. I've no idea how this is done, but I've just written Wikia about it. Hopefully they can get it done for us... I'll keep you posted. -- Dammej ( talk ) 03:53, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Update on the Quicktime issue: The response I got from Wikia was basically "no way jose." Apparently they can't just update the extension for only the MEWiki, as all wikis run on the same software. They did tell me that it'll be updated whenever they update their MediaWiki software "in a few months." I wrote back asking if they knew of any other way to get what I want, but I'm not hopeful. Do you think the quicktime usability issue is a show-stopper, or do you think we can roll out the Codex audio hoping that users don't use quicktime on FF? -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:33, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, if it's going to be months before they fix it, we should just proceed. At least it'll get fixed someday. Now we can move on to aesthetics and all that. SpartHawg948 23:38, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll direct you to the Project forum post I made about it a few days back: Forum:Narrated Codex entries. -- Dammej ( talk ) 23:43, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Fixing the formatting on your page
I noticed that for whatever reason, the whole page displays incorrectly on your talk page specifically. I'll spare you the details, but I've discovered the culprit: Blockquote. To fix the formatting on your page, find where you use blockquote, specifically the... to keep these getting out of hand, how 'bout we limit them to at least semi-prominent characters? 'Rachni Envoy' is not one. Aethyta barely is, but Racnhi Envoy? No way invocation in the "Rachni Envoy" section, and add a single newline immediately before the Blockquote call. Not sure why using it in-line with other text causes it to screw up this bad, but doing this should fix it. -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:02, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Add a single what? SpartHawg948 08:04, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * doh, newline (enter key). I blame the drugs... -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:06, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. Gonna do that, then it's time to write up a new featured bio. Here's a hint - he was an admiral from a landlocked country. (Although, in all fairness, it's because first he was an admiral in a country with a coastline that ceased to be, though why they kept him an admiral and not a general later on is beyond me...) SpartHawg948 08:10, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I haven't the foggiest when it comes to military history, so I couldn't begin to venture a reasonable guess. The idea of an admiral in a land-locked country is quite intriguing though. Out of ignorance, I assume that's quite rare, given the... issues that would be associated with keeping a navy without having water nearby. :) I'm much more comfortable working with HTML, C++, Java, C#, CSS... basically anything involving a computer. I will be sure to read it when you post it, though! -- Dammej ( talk ) 08:21, August 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. He was an Admiral in a country with no fleet or coastline, and Regent of a Kingdom with no King. Btw, thank you much! It worked like a charm! :) SpartHawg948 09:35, August 25, 2010 (UTC)

ME Assignment Journal Entries
Hey Spart, I have a question about the various ME assignments and their journal entries. As I am on a ME playthrough right now, new campaign and for touching up the various ME assignments, I noticed that most of the ME assignments don't have the journal entries that are from the game. While some of the official entries do have the word "you" in them, I was wondering if this an oversight or becuase of the "you"s there was some official modification. Since I am working on the walkthoughs, I figured I'd ask. Lancer1289 05:27, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Come again? I'm afraid I'm not sure what you're asking. SpartHawg948 05:35, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Like the entry at the top of the UNC: Missing Survey Team doesn't match what the journal says in game. The journal in game states: News vids indicate that a survey team in the Hades Gamma cluster recently dropped out of contact. Go to the Hades Gamma cluster and find out what happened to them. Since I know some assignments, like the example I mentioned, can be acquired from multiple sources, I was wondering which is more appropriate, the current one, or the one I have above. I dug through on my last playthrough and found very few of the assignments match journal entries, whether they be from one source or another. Does that make sense? Lancer1289 05:41, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was likely done early on out of convenience, possibly even before the MoS was drawn up. If you want to update them with the proper entries, be my guest. SpartHawg948 05:47, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very well then. I'll pull the journal entries as best I can. Since I wasn't around when this was drawn up, I figured I'd ask in case there was a reason. Thanks again. Lancer1289 05:49, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Editting Harbinger
Yea I notice that you are slightly changing my edits done to Harbinger. I can handle it but I could also use your help. I'm trying to format it similarily to Sovereign's page where it is categoried with that little box on the side that lists the contents of the page. Can you add that because everytime I try it doesn't work.Xboxannihilator 05:45, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it worked. Right up until I undid it. As I noted on your talk page, that "little box" is a table of contents. The Harbinger page does not need a table of contents, as it has only one section. That's like putting a table of contents into a 10-page book with no chapters. There's no reason to. SpartHawg948 05:49, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in here, but there is no reason to have a TOC for just one section. Sovereign's page has more detail because we know more about it than we do about Harbinger. Since we don't know that much, I also question if that headline is even necessary, given that we know little about the Reaper. Lancer1289 05:50, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * See I thought of adding more information but, like Lancer said, what little we know about him is already there and Sovereign has more because we were given more information about him in the game. That, and it's late and I'm too tired to add anything. But could we at least add a trivia section?Xboxannihilator 05:55, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * With what trivia? Like I said when I removed it, there is no reason to have a separate trivia section with nothing it it. That's as useful as creating a section on the Harbinger page for the first game. SpartHawg948 05:57, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) What is the point of a trivia section if we have no trivia, and I can't think of any for Harbinger at the moment. Creating sections with no information makes the article look sloppy and is unnecessary. Lancer1289 05:59, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * So think of some! Like what his voice actor does, or what his name means or something.Xboxannihilator 06:05, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Generally, it's considered proper to have trivia before creating a trivia section. And honestly, as the person pushing for it, the burden of proof lies with you to think of something, not myself or Lancer. SpartHawg948 06:08, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Also I don't see a need for a trivia section right now. The voice actor trivia, by our guidelines for that, there really isn't a point of mentioning it because Keith didn't do many other voice acting in other BioWare games, and Harbinger is his most prominent role in ME2, and BioWare games themselves if IMDb is the source for that. So I don't see a need for voice actor trivia. As to the name thing, I really don't see it as necessary because it is more trivial than trivia. Lancer1289 06:11, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright, alright, I'll wait until the next game comes out to try and contribute! Geez, you must have a high paragon to have convinced me to agree with you.Xboxannihilator 06:15, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I get that a lot, oddly enough. Maybe not that exact wording, but I am told that I can be very persuasive. SpartHawg948 06:21, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Obviously. At least you didn't take the renegade path.Xboxannihilator 06:25, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

What, just killing you and looting your corpse? :P SpartHawg948 09:00, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Image refreshing
Is it OK that Wikia sticks to the first version of images? SkyBon 21:06, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * No idea. Anything done at Wikia is beyond my proverbial pay-grade. You'd need to ask someone at Wikia. I'd recommend JoePlay, as he's usually pretty accessible. Also, please note that I have no idea what you're asking about, other than that it seems to involve Wikia, which is again, not an organization or entity I can speak for. SpartHawg948 21:12, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * See here. The first version of image is shown at the page although when you open the image itself, you see the current one. SkyBon 21:19, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Two things. 1) Still no idea what you're asking. What do you mean it 'sticks to the first version of the image'? It shows the first version of the image in the image history, but as you yourself note, it displays the current image. And 2) Still can't answer for Wikia. I don't work for (or speak for) them. SpartHawg948 21:22, August 28, 2010 (UTC)

Post-mission mail question
SpartHawg948, I noticed on the Dossier: Archangel page that there is included the "post-mission mail" from the wife of a former teammate. I have the post-mission mail from Mordin's assistant. Should I add it to the Professor's dossier page? --AnotherRho 21:27, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure! That would be outstanding! Or, as the Expat (IIRC) put it, "Most Excellent!" SpartHawg948 21:28, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Word. In other news, I reworded that Horizon (mission) edit from earlier today; if you wish, check to see if it's clearer (I meant 6 members in addition to the 2 [Miranda, Jacob] Shepard has from the beginning). --AnotherRho 23:57, August 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I saw. It makes so much more sense now. The "additional" with no context (in addition to whom?) was pretty confusing, and I didn't really stop and add up the squad members before removing it. SpartHawg948 00:00, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, after your edit I realized that the bare wording was less than clear. Such is one difficulty concerning writing. Anyway, I just added that "email", but then noticed that on the Daniel page the email already exists.  Does such duplication matter?  AnotherRho 00:19, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not really. And if anything, the message seems more appropriate on the mission page than on the Daniel page. SpartHawg948 00:28, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Edit Summary
Hi, I just have a question. How do you leave an edit summary?

ThanksSaltpeter1 22:07, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * When you make an edit, there is a little bar labeled 'Summary' next to the 'Save Page' and 'Preview' buttons. Leave your edit summary there, next to where it says '/*Edit Summary*/' SpartHawg948 22:10, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the help
 * Saltpeter1 22:14, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. Happy to help. :) SpartHawg948 22:16, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a problem. Happy to help. :) SpartHawg948 22:16, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

Unsure about this
Hey Spart, just something to cast your eye on, but the latest addition to the Talk:Jedore page has me a little concerned. I don't think that is appropiate, whether in the article or talk page, since that is what that section is about, and I'm debating if it is vandalsim or not. I'd like your opinion on the subject. Thanks. Lancer1289 23:11, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, to me at least, it seems like stupid juvenile commentary that, while certainly immature, is not really inappropriate, and I wouldn't really call it vandalism. Now, if more comments like this start popping up on other talk pages from this same individual, then it will merit a second look, but for now, all I'm gonna do is roll my eyes and maybe ask people to up the maturity level a bit. SpartHawg948 23:41, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very well. I was rolling my eyes when I saw it as well. Lancer1289 23:42, August 30, 2010 (UTC)

Oh I'm not trying to get on your bad side, seriously, trust me I'm not. I actually though you'd beat me to it this time, then I saw you long thing about the ET3 article. However if the geth I was fighting didn't go down when they did, then you would have most certainly beat me to it. They dropped faster than I thought they would, gotta love grenades with the High Explosive VII upgrade. Lancer1289 00:47, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I had expected to go straight from the ET3 article to deleting the 'My Sandbox' one. When I'm the one who nominates an article for deletion, and am taking a keen and involved interest in it, (such as in the cases of the 'My Sandbox' and 'Galactic' articles), I really look forward to deleting them, to the point that, even though I was doing something else, I dropped what I was doing and came here for the sole and explicit purpose of deleting the 'My Sandbox' page. The ET3 thing was just killing time till the one hour was up. Getting beat to the punch on articles I'm following that keenly is really... disappointing, to say the least. More like frustrating. SpartHawg948 00:52, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well then, I'll be sure to remember that if you nominate deletion for an article the future, my apologies for the frustration. Lancer1289 00:57, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Rachni Song
I asked also Lancer about this.

I recorded some samples from the rachni song that can be heard on Luna (while on the mission for the rogue VI) and put them togetherer. I have a audio file about 40 seconds.

This is the file:

Can it be used to the rachni article? SoulRipper 22:46, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * For now, I would say no. At least not until we figure out how we're going to incorporate audio into articles, a discussion that is currently ongoing. And even then, since this is not a Codex article, and since it's not (strictly speaking) taken directly from the game (as you state that you took samples and "put them togetherer[sic]", I'd still be inclined to say no. Talk page? Sure. Article? No. Maybe, just maybe, once the discussion on audio in articles is completed, an unaltered clip can be placed in the article, but I don't want to speculate on future eventualities at this time. SpartHawg948 22:52, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * When I say samples I mean that I recorded a video which is about 5:30 and took off the "silence" parts (where there is no rachni sounds). In those 5 and a half mintues there are about 50-60 seconds of rachni sounds and quite a bit distanced the one sound from the other. Here is the edited video (from the the 5:30 long video) that I uploaded on youtube : Rachni Song Luna.


 * Its the exact audio that I exported to .ogg.SoulRipper 23:13, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd also have to agree. Right now I'd have to say no, and since the clip is a sampling, i.e. altered, I'd have to say no on that count as well. Maybe once we get this Codex audio thing worked out, we can revisit this, but I'd also have to agree that an unaltered clip would be the only thing that would be allowed. Not an altered clip. Lancer1289 23:21, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * So again, it's not lifted straight from the game. It's snippets taken and edited by you. This is just what I said, and your explanation of how you altered it does nothing to change that. SpartHawg948 23:22, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, I understand what you mean about the altering. What you want is a rip of the exact file from the game files and not a recorded one, right? SoulRipper 23:28, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be preferable, but another issue I have is just posting an audio file (Additionally, I still don't think you do understand what I meant by altering. I didn't mean it had to be from the game files and not recorded, I just meant that, if recorded, it needed to be unaltered, i.e. no removing of portions of the audio to, for example, remove silent periods from the middle. When I said 'altered', I meant 'altered'). I'm not trying to cast aspersions on you or anything, but the rachni audio file you upload could be from anywhere. The way I'd be most comfortable with doing this would be linking to a youtube video, preferably one that shows both the location on the map where it is being heard, and shows Shep and company on the moon listening to it. This and the Codex audio, after all, are not completely analogous situations. SpartHawg948 23:31, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll see if I can find anything in the game files.SoulRipper 23:50, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Or you could take what I said and seemingly ignore it. Whatever works. I do so love having 90% of my message being ignored in favor of the 10% that works best for others. Really makes my feel my opinion matters. SpartHawg948 23:55, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

I want space
Small thing. I would like to move "Codex/The Master Thief:Kasumi's Secrets" and "Codex/The Veteran:Zaeed's Secrets" to "Codex/The Master Thief: Kasumi's Secrets" and "Codex/The Veteran: Zaeed's Secrets" respectively (notice the spaces inserted into the titles). As this is a fairly small correction (the spaces, while present in the game and used in aliases on the Codex article, were for whatever reason not factored in by the articles' creators here), can I go ahead and do the moves without the week-long debate? -- Commdor (Talk) 22:57, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seriously? Are you trying to make finding articles more difficult than it already is for me? :P Frankly, I don't care. This one seems like a clear-cut case of "the titles are wrong, so it's okay to move it without asking" to me. SpartHawg948 22:59, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Okey dokey, smokey. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:01, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... would that make you The Bandit? Not sure how I feel about that... SpartHawg948 23:03, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

And FYI, isn't it almost time for a new Featured Article? Let's see if we can't get you to post one on-time one of these days. :) -- Commdor (Talk) 23:17, August 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know what you're talking about. I nearly always post on-time. It's just a matter of perspective. All I need to do is post sometime between Midnight tonight, and midnight tomorrow night. If I post it at 11:59 pm on Wednesday night, I still meet my deadline. And I just so happen to be in California, so even though I meet my deadline, to you it will look like I didn't, since you're a few hours ahead of me. SpartHawg948 23:36, August 31, 2010 (UTC)

Armor mis-links; and related question
I've noticed on several occasions that armor links (especially [or maybe only?] purchased armor) send the viewer to the N7 Armor page, which does not contain the relevant information. For examples, Omega Market: the links for the armor inventory items. FYI. I can correct some links as I come across them (I won't correct that market for now, so it can serve as an example), but I thought you might want to know as well. p.s. why do we have the same info on N7 Armor and Armor Customization? or better yet, do we need them both? AnotherRho 04:53, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the thing is that it used to link to the correct parts of the N7 armor page, which used to contain all the relevant info. However, the armor pages were revamped some time ago, causing some links to seeming have these issues. So yeah, if you'd like to fix them, by all means. As for why we have the N7 and armor, well... we really don't. There's a section about customization on the N7 armor page, but it's just a blurb with a link to the Armor Customization page. And yes, we need both pages. We need the armor customization page to cover armor customization, and how much sense would it make if we had individual pages for all the armor sets except for N7 armor? SpartHawg948 05:01, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea the revamp was a good idea, and I've been trying to find the conversation where we did it. Unfortunatly I can't seem to find it right now. However becase so many armor pieces were being added, having them all on the N7 Page was overtaxing the page and moving away from what it was supposed to do, which is present the N7 armor. The customization page is a much better place for that as now all the armor pages match in their content and we have moved the massive amount of armor parts to their own page. Lancer1289 05:08, September 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * I see, N7 Armor, Inferno Armor, Cerberus Assault Armor, etc. That being cleared up, then the only problem is the incorrect (i.e., useless) links.  I'll fix any I find.  AnotherRho 05:15, September 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Most will be on the shop pages, I'll go around and fix them as well. Lancer1289 05:16, September 1, 2010 (UTC)

ref DO NOT REMOVE COMMENTS LEFT BY OTHER USERS
http://masseffect.wikia.com/index.php?title=Talk:Mass_Effect_2_Guide&action=history That is not another user, it's still me typing from work not logged in. Says so in my profile too. The comment I deleted is old and has no meaning there anymore. You can delete this message at your convenience. Thank you Perj 05:21, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Your profile mentions nothing about being that unregistered user, and even if it did, it would not be considered valid proof. After all, I can go onto my user page right now and edit it to claim I am any of a number of unregistered users. The fact remains that registered user Perj removed a comment left by an unregistered user, and there is simply no way to verify that this unregistered user is, in fact, you. If the comment is old and has no meaning anymore, then delete it while not logged in and while using the IP that added it. This is the only acceptable way to remove a comment from the talk page. It HAS to be removed by the user (registered account or unregistered IP) that added it. SpartHawg948 05:44, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Rachni Song INGAME files.
I found the files!!! The sound is crystal-clear BUT...the downside is that there are 4 files (UNC Sand-animal 1 ot 4). If I take those 4 files and put them the one after the other without changing anything, just import the files as they are to the audio editor and export a .ogg file, is still concidered as alteration? Also I have extracted all the codex entries from the first ME game. (Edit) Lancer I want your opinion too. SoulRipper 17:42, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Remember the other objections I had? The ones you breezed over instead of answering by announcing that "I'll get in-game files"? Please address those before I consider this, as one of my objections would render this whole thing moot. Additionally, you've got all the Codex entries, eh? Ummm... good for you? Not sure what you want me to say. Dammej is working on that currently. SpartHawg948 20:17, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Since I was asked for my opinion here it is, I'd have to side with Spart on this one that there are still may things to work out first. The thing about combining them into one file is it is still an alteration. We have absolutely no way to confirm that there wasn't anything additional added to it. Remember even space, or silence, to music, such as splicing them together, is still classified as an alteration. The things you learn in Music Theory eh. The only way I can see this working is that all four files are uploaded individually. That is the only way I can see, and I'm not sure even that would work or look good. Personally I'd like to see those other objections Spart brought up addressed before moving any futher. Lancer1289 21:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1st I know that there are problems that have to be solved before a audio file will be added to an article. What Im saying is that when and if you need those files, I have them and I can give them to you.
 * 2nd If you dont trust me, I can tell you what file is in which the rachni sounds are located and how I extracted them and do it yourself so to be sure that I didnt added a few miliseconds of silence or something.
 * 3d You know something...Just forget about it. I feel like I have done something wrong or killed somebody. I just want to help. SoulRipper 21:48, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * What? I don't understand. I think there's a language barrier issue here, because I don't think that either Lancer or SpartHawg were trying to degrade you or state their mistrust of you in any way. SpartHawg is only asking that you at least acknowledge the other issues he raised before you bring up the issue again. I can't speak for him, but it's extremely frustrating when someone continually asks "Can I do this now?" after they address one objection, but haven't looked at others. It wouldn't change the answer, because not all objections have been addressed.
 * Your contributions are most certainly welcome and appreciated. I doubt Lancer or SpartHawg will flat out refuse an addition of the Rachni song to the wiki that satisfactorily addresses their concerns. But until you do address those other concerns, they're not going to be very receptive to continued pushing for its addition. -- Dammej ( talk ) 22:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Once again, I'm not calling into question how the audio would be presented in article. We've gone over that, and I feel that we have a sufficient understanding of the issue that we don't need to re-hash it, which is why it wasn't one of the concerns I was referring to. As such, I don't see why you even brought it up.


 * Next, did I say I didn't trust you? Nope. In fact, I went out of my way to reassure you that this was not the case. Please don't try to make this a me vs you thing, as it isn't. My concern is that it's far and away more helpful, easier, and a better idea all around, to simply link to a video demonstrating the rachni songs as well as demonstrating where people can hear them. Extracted files from in-game do not do this, nor are they easily verifiable, like in-game footage (in the form of a video) would be.


 * And I understand and respect that you are just trying to help. I have no idea why you feel you've done something wrong. Have I accused you of any misdeeds, or addressed you in an accusatory tone? No. I've tried to help bring this idea to fruition, but (and pardon the language), I also want to ensure it isn't done half-assed. Do it right or don't do it at all is my motto on these matters. Funny thing is, I also want to help, which is what I've been trying to do. SpartHawg948 22:16, September 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK, I completely get it and sorry for the trouble. Maybe I got a little (A LOT) to "excited" and lost it. Now really the video thing is a lot better and maybe Ill go for that. Im really sorry again.SoulRipper 22:38, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I also know that you are trying to help, and I respect that, but things like this need to be done carefully. As to the video idea, that seems like a much better alternative than dealing with the files, as it can be easily recognizable and verified by just playing it. I have also been trying to help with this as it would be a great addition to the article, however there were some major complexities that needed to be worked out first. Which now they have with that video idea. Lancer1289 22:56, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

What do you mean with: however there were some major complexities that needed to be worked out first. Which now they have with that video idea.SoulRipper 23:04, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * The biggest ones were the alteration and verification thing, which is easliy solved by the video. The third one was how to incorperate it, which is still an ongoing process with the narriated Codex entires. Once that is worked out, then we can figure this out. However since we decided on linking videos, that problem is somewhat mute. That is what I ment, the video problems solves most of the issues, but there are still some, like how to link the videos. Lancer1289 23:56, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * You mean that the problem is how to add a video to the article? Does this looks OK or is something else that you want?SoulRipper 00:24, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, it doesn't look ok. If you'll note, the video you uploaded is now nominated for deletion (and will be deleted very shortly) as a clear-cut violation of site video policy as enumerated in the Community Guidelines. When I said 'link to a video', I meant link to a video, like on YouTube or something, not insert a video into the article, which is a site no-no. Additionally, an unaltered video would be nice (i.e. one without big red letters all over it). SpartHawg948 00:28, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes bye bye video indeed. Liking an unaltered video from YouTube or something like that is the only way to put it in. Also it would just have to be linked, and not embedded or displayed in the page as a video, just a link, as I think that would also violate the Community Guidelines. Lancer1289 00:32, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Have both of you lost it? Did I said that this video would be added to the article? Did I added it to the article? It was my Blog and had a "VIDEO TEST" headline above which is still there. And where did I uploaded the video, in the Wiki mainspace? I pressed the button which sas "Add a video", pasted the Youtube adress and it added the video there. Does a 152 MB video uploads in 3 seconds? I dont think so. And your General FAQ, its not clear at all. That "If you want to link to a video to prove an edit is not speculation, add a link at the bottom of the article" it talks about articles not for user pages, blogs or talk pages. Either you make it clear and say that NO videos are acceptable at all or stop mocking me with that "Yes bye bye video indeed". OK? And then you say that "I respect that you want to help". Where does this show and I dont see it?SoulRipper 08:18, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. Just calm down and take a few deep breaths. And maybe reconsider who here has "lost it". Because I seem to be doing ok. No, you didn't add a video to an article, and yes, it was your blog. However, to do so, you had to upload it, which means that it was uploaded to the mainspace, which is not permitted, as I explained to you. You could just as easily have embedded the video, which would have caused it to appear and play without having to be uploaded, and would have been perfectly acceptable. And yes, the General FAQ is pretty clear. It says if you'd like to use a video, LINK IT. Uploading a video is not linking it. This is linking a video. It's not hard. And you want to know where I showed that I respect your desire to help? Just re-read this thread. Each and every time I offered advice or suggested a better or more appropriate way to do something, I was respecting your desire to help. Did I ever, EVER refuse to answer a question? DID I EVER REJECT ANY OF YOUR REQUESTS OUT OF HAND, OR TELL YOU TO STOP EDITING? No! ALL I have done is try to help you edit constructively. Don't come onto my talk page and give me crap for it. SpartHawg948 08:27, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow the things you miss when you sleep. Anyway, I use that quote on a few pages when I delete them. It isn't meant as an insult, just me trying, and failing apparently, to lighten the mood a little. However since it was apparently taken as an insult, then I apologize for that and I add another reason to my list of times that text has been misinterpreted. I do respect anyone that wants to help and try to assist if I can, or at least point them in the right direction. As to the video it is a violation of the Guidelines, and as such needed to be deleted. Linking it is the only way to go with this, rather than embedding the video in the article. Have I also ever refused to answer a question, or tried to assist? Not as far as I can remember. I have always tried to help, and I also never told you to stop editing. I have also tried to help, and I get blasted for it. Lancer1289 12:55, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Im sorry, but that really pissed me off. I didnt even saw that nomination because I was also sleeping. I added the video, I closed my PC and the next morning I have the video deleted, a dozen of comments to the blog and accusations for violation. About the video...I couldnt embed it. I copied the embed code and it was not showing the video but the code so I pressed the "Add a video" button. It didnt asked me to point a video file in my computer to upload. It asked me to paste a link from a site like Youtube, Dailymotion etc, and so I did. I dont think that that was a upload, because it took 3 to 4 seconds to show the video after I pressed the "Preview" button and a video about 152 MB cant be uploaded in 3-4 seconds (at least with conventional speeds and I definitely dont have a T3 connection and I think that neither does wiki). It had to be a embed. But anyway, if videos are not allowed at all, that doesnt matter.
 * I know, that video is not good BUT my point was to ask about how it looked like that (not the video but how it was placed). What I got it was that I violated the policy of the site and stuff. The only thing that was needed it was just a no. One way or another I would delete the video because it was just a test not a permanent thing.
 * Anyway, I apologize for my behevior.
 * Now I want to go back to the video thing.
 * I recorded 3 videos, one for each of Luna, Altahe and Nepmos. Each video starts from the cutscene that shows the Mako get dropped from the Normandy. Then I show on the map where is the place where the rachni song can be heard and drive the Mako there. After that I show the place around and untill the end of each video there are rachni sounds that can be heard. The duration is around 3 minutes and some seconds, uncut, no edit (not even the volume) just a fade out at the end. I have default armor and weapons for every squad member.
 * The videos are 720p HD, recorded with Fraps. Here are the links: Luna, Altahe, Nepmos. Also when recording the Altahe video, Fraps did some s--t so the video has about 4-5 seconds with about 1-4 fps but the sound is OK.
 * Also on Aeia I didnt heard any rachni sound but one who is similar to the "short sound" that can be heard on the 3 planets in the first game. Its more like some animal is doing that sounds (the whole place looks tropical) rather than some rachni, all the other sounds are bird sounds and environment sounds (water, wind etc). I was listening for about 6 minutes.
 * One more thing that I want ot mention is that the rachni sounds resemble (and can be possibly influenced by) the sounds that the whales do, for example as can be heard in this video. SoulRipper 16:53, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don’t know about Spart, but I’d rather have the links over embedding the video. Because we have that no video policy, embedding is fine on a user page, like how GrandMoffVixen has his page, but I really don’t think it should be done in articles. While the videos are good, the audio, even on Nepmos it is clear. The only problem I have is the travel time, but I can easily shrug that off as in-game footage and a necessity. That is really the only gripe I have with it.
 * As to whether I prefer links or embedding, I’d prefer links over embedding, otherwise we might send the wrong message about the video policy. Also could you please tone down on what you type. I don’t know about Spart, but “bulls--t” is still swearing/inappropriate language to me. Lancer1289 18:51, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

OK, the bull thing will not be typed again. Also thats what exactly I was trying to do like GrandMoffVixen. I checked how he embeded the video and is completely different than for example embed a video to a myspace page where you just get the embed code, paste it and its done. Now about the driving time I kept it so to be uncut from the landing till the end and to show how to go there because Spart said about showing where is the place where the song can be heard. I will agree with you about linking. If embeded it cant be full size because its to big for an article. If scaled down (as a thumb) it will not show good and any user will have to go to the site where the video came from. So either way (scaled-down-embed/thumb or link) will have the same result, so I think better add a link. SoulRipper 19:08, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * The Driving thing I said I was fine with, because it also shows people where to find it for themselves. As to the embedding, I would have to say that no matter how we do it, it wouldn’t turn out well. A link is a good way here as it works out better, and eliminates a lot of hassle. Lancer1289 19:16, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now when I look the rachni article it concerns me where those links can or should be added. At the trivia where it says about the song?SoulRipper 19:41, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I just want to point out, in response to your comments, none of my messages in your video blog were accusations. Not one. I simply pointed out (as it seemed that you were unaware) that there was a site policy prohibiting what you did. There was no accusation there, and I do not appreciate your claim that I did accuse you of anything. This 'wild rant folowed by an apology' thing is getting real old, real fast. I would strongly suggest that, in the future, you take a bit to cool down and actually read what has been said thoroughly before going onto other peoples talk pages and leaving messages like the ones you've left here. Now, as Lancer said, embedding video in the articles is a no-go. They will have to be linked. No ifs, ands, or buts. SpartHawg948 19:49, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah the trivia section seems the best please for the links. And it seems that links is the only way to go. Lancer1289 20:01, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Clear enough. Also as I said earlier I didnt noticed any rachni sounds at Aeia at Jacobs mission. I think that this claim is not accurate. The only sound that can be heard is a sound which is similar to the short sound that can be heard on the 3 planets from the first game and unlike with the songs to the first game, that sound on Aeia can be heard anywhere while the rachni song can be heard only at a specific place on each planet. SoulRipper 20:19, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Erinya talk
Sorry I've moved to your talk page (shouldn't happen again), but I'd rather remove this question farther from the article. I know you exclude speculation for the reason you gave. I agree with that policy (I've removed some speculations myself). It is ironic that you were speaking in the same mode to me as I was trying to speak at first. More could be said, but rather than make this any more protracted, satisfy my curiosity: off the record, in your opinion, is it likely that we, the players, are meant to think of the (only) two named asari (who are not the Consort) from the presidium of ME1? E.g., if you were to ask me the same sort of question about Aria and Aleena, I would say that, from the point of view of the game (i.e., as a work of art), it is clear that the Aria is meant to recall Wrex's Aleena, even though no one says so in ME1 or 2. AnotherRho 07:54, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't really answer as to whether we are meant to think that these are the two being referred to, at least not (I suspect) with an answer you would find satisfactory. I know I didn't think that she must be referring to Nelyna and Saphyria. Of course, I also don't really think that Aleena and Aria are one and the same. I can see why some people would think that, but I also don't think there is anything substantive to either of those theories, just as I don't think there is anything to the related theory that Matriarch Aethyta is Liara T'Soni's other parent. SpartHawg948 08:01, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is nothing substantial to the claims about Aethyta and Liara's parent (or anyone else and her parent). But au contraire mon ami, your answer satisfied me very much.  Thank you for answering!  AnotherRho 08:04, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. And, just as you say there is nothing substantial to the claims about Aethyta and Liara, I feel there is nothing substantive about the theory that the Consort greeter has to be Nelyna, when we see several other asari working there, and when (based on Nelyna's own comments) 'greeter' doesn't appear to be a dedicated position but rather one that is likely filled by whoever is not with a client at the moment/for the day, and that the Embassy worker has to be Saphyria when there are, in all likelihood, a plethora of asari working at the embassies. Ditto for Aria and Aleena, when asari mercs seem to be very common, and with none of the 'connecting info' being very uncommon. It's all common turns of phrase and such. There is literally as much substance to those theories as to the Liara/Aethyta theory, IMO. SpartHawg948 08:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, since you responded in such detail, I'll add that the latter claim is based on the statements that Liara doesn't know her parentage, is pureblood, and that Aethyta has a pureblood daughter. But there is nothing specific to any of those (and to boot there are other purebloods in-game).  The other cases are different (although Erinya's case is the weaker and less important); but everything depends on the fundamental fact of the game.  Once one is in-game, the specifics become radically specific (e.g., no one else says "Better luck next time"). The entire story is similar. Compare Shepard and the Council: his hard evidence is actually pretty weak; the Council won't buy it; but in-game (for the player), there are sufficient hints and suggestions as to convince the player that there are meant to be giant, world-destroying sapient machines, waiting to demolish all advanced life in the galaxy (if you think about it, if ME2 didn't end with the cutscene of the reeper fleet, there would be no solid evidence [not even the derelict ship] of the reepers at all; a big ship here, a hologram there, some bad dreams, villainous races, etc.).  But so as not to tire you with this any longer... thank you for the conversation!  AnotherRho 08:40, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

And 'better luck next time' isn't a common phrase? Just saying, Liara says she never knew her other asari parent and (IIRC) postulates that this could have been due to some unpleasantness between Benezia and the other one. And Aethyta has a pureblood daughter she's never met, due to unpleasantness with the other parent. Clearly there's just as much to suggest a link here as there is to connect Aria and Aleena, especially when part of the evidence is that both have said 'better luck next time', or something to that effect. After all, there are plenty of other asari mercs in game. Certainly way more asari mercs than there are purebloods. I mean, what are the odds of meeting first an asari pureblood who never knew her other parent, and then an asari parent of a pureblood who never knew her daughter? If anything, there's a more solid 'case' here than there is for Aria and Aleena on the basis of 'better luck next time'. SpartHawg948 08:50, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea that Aria and Allena case is somewhat slippery, and so is this case and Aethyta and Liara. Overall I don' thing there is much to back up any of the three cases. As to why people think that way, it's probably because something is suggested and they immediately think that because there is no other theory presented, then that must be the case. As to whether I believe it, I honestly don't believe any of the three cases. While each has some, very minor, support, they are all based mostly on speculation rather than facts. Lancer1289 13:45, September 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree, the Aria-Aleena, etc., cases are "speculation". But tell me, what would be a fact? AnotherRho 20:21, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it would be fact when it is said explicitly in a canonical way through game, novel or comic. There is a certain amount of deduction that one can make but there is always going to be some amount of assumption within that. I personally feel that that Aria/Aleena being the same person argument holds quite a lot of weight from the dialogue with Aria, but I wouldn't argue against someone who thought otherwise because it is after all speculation. FridgeRaider88 20:33, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, a fact is something explicitly stated or shown, such as the fact that Liselle is Aria's daughter, or in rare circumstances something that is not shown per se, but can be inferred, such as the fact that when the screen fades to black during any of the romance cutscenes, Shepard and the love interest are in fact (to quote ZZ Top) doing the tube snake boogie. SpartHawg948 20:40, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. If Aria said, "I was once called Aleena", that "fact" would be no more trustworthy than her claiming to have once changed her name, been a commando, been a merc, pissed off a Krogan, preferred to disappear rather than kill someone, etc.; she is such a shady character after all. (the tube snake boogie? nothing reptilian about those hairy guys) AnotherRho 20:46, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, for starters if there was anything more solid to go on than: the fact that she was once a merc (which seems very common for young asari, as evidenced by overheard conversations throughout the game, particularly on Illium), the fact that she's used many names (extremely common for underworld figures, just ask Paul Johnson, err, Grayson), the fact that she says "better luck next time" or some form of that very common phrase, the fact that she pissed off a krogan (not hard to do, as she seems to have pissed off several, just as the Patriarch), and the fact that she makes a vague comment about preferring to disappear rather than kill someone. Maybe if she referenced a fight on a space station, or Urdnot Wrex (who is well-known enough in ME2, assuming he survives Virmire, that it could reasonably be expected for well-informed people to know who he is), or something along those lines. Now, were she to say flat-out that one of her former aliases was Aleena, that would be enough to treat it as fact unless something non-dialogue was revealed that contradicted her being the Aleena, as we have it from good authority (writers for the game) that dialogue from characters is at times inaccurate and ill-informed. SpartHawg948 20:53, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart, I know I won't persuade you, but I want to at least make sure you have more of the facts (even if for the refuting). Her preference for disappearing is told with a moment of softness in her voice (Wrex said Aleena was always a bit of a softy).  And she speaks of some salarian creditors claiming that they were more entitled to her money (a quantity of money apparently sufficient for her to begin operation coup-d'Omega); and Aleena had chosen to fight Wrex on an old salarian space station, the complete destruction of which she was a first cause (since she chose it).
 * If, however, it is true that writers have confirmed that they are not remarkably competent (as writers), then I, too, would not believe that the allusions to the two young asari in the presidium, and Aleena, were intended to be reminders of the first game. (To infer anything from a writing or story, one must have in mind (a) that it is an artificial work, and (b) that the maker has minimal competence as artisan). So, fair enough. AnotherRho 21:29, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * And I in turn feel the need to remind you that the space station may have been built by the salarians, but was no longer used by them, as it was serving as a base for pirates and mercs when the fight took place. And, since that was at least part of the reason it was chosen, I can't say I agree with Aleena being the 'first cause' of its destruction. Blame either the pirates or the salarians themselves for that. Again, there is literally as much evidence to support this theory as there is to Aethyta being Liara's other parent, and there are far fewer common occurrences cited as 'evidence' in the latter theory. End of the day, there's really only one fact that matters - there is no confirmation (veiled or otherwise) that Aria is Aleena. None. SpartHawg948 22:03, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember. But you do well to remind me that the chain of "blame" or responsibility always leads back further, ultimately to the big bang, or to the cause or causes of that.  Still, you may be right; better cautious than rash, in many cases.  Thank you SpartHawg for generously answering my questions.  AnotherRho 01:09, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's what I do! :) SpartHawg948 01:15, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

LotSB Talk Page
Since the Talk:Lair of the Shadow Broker page has gotten extrememly long, and it doens't appear to be slowing down, I was thinking of archiving the whole talk page on the 6th. The main reason was to get all of the pre-release stuff off the talk page so issues after the pack comes out can be addressed. What I was thinking of is putting a notice at the top of the page warning users that the page will be archived at 00:00 UTC September 7th. Just wondering what you think about that? Lancer1289 20:06, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I dunno. It's only 17 sections, and it's not too terribly long yet. SpartHawg948 20:11, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well its the actual size of the page, which is almost 65,000 bytes. Currently the guidelines are 50 comments or 75,000 bytes, but there is also that week waiting period after the last comment pushes it over one of those two requirements to archive the page. Since all the current stuff on the page is about pre-release material and questions about it, most if not all of them will be answered when the pack comes out. I was just thinking that we could prevent the page from getting longer with people commenting in threads that are already answered like how some people edit talk page sections that haven't seen any activity in a long time. If you are against the idea, then I'll desist but it was just something I was thinking about so that when the pack does come out, issues and questions with it can be brought up and answered without having to sift through the pre-release comments. Yes I know that is just going to the right sections, but its conversations like the weapons section, that might get additional comments about how there were no weapons and the whole conversation was incorrect, even though the conversation ended over a month ago. Lancer1289 20:21, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I'm not really a huge fan of using the size in bytes as a parameter for archiving. I'd prefer to keep it confined to actual length of the page, and I don't think the page is long enough to warrant archiving yet. It's a very new talk page, and I just don't see the need to cut off conversations that are ongoing at an arbitrary point, such as 00:00 UTC on the 7th. SpartHawg948 20:43, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, I'll drop the matter. Lancer1289 20:45, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I thought you might be interested to know
The Zaeed in ME3 thread at the BioWare forum is starting to really put some roots down. Might actually accomplish something after all, eh? Arbington 21:06, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yay! We can go kick it with Zaeed in ME3! Moment of shame- I do have to admit though, across all my playthroughs, I've only had one squad member killed, and it was Zaeed, in my very first playthrough when I sent him to lead the distraction team in the Collector Base. I thought, "who better to lead a squad then the co-founder of one of the top merc groups in the galaxy, and the one who used to lead the men, to boot!" Turns out, I was wrong... :( SpartHawg948 21:25, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Paradoxically, he can hold the line by himself while you abort the baby Reaper. What a guddamn badass. -- Dammej ( talk ) 21:30, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

There should be an update where if you pick him he doesnt die.--Legionwrex 21:27, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * You would think their should be. He's had experience in leading men, surely he can do so again. I mean Kasumi can go into the vents, why can't Zaeed be a squad leader? Lancer1289 21:31, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

If Zaeed isn't back in ME3, I'll be pissed, to say the least. It takes a big godamn hero to save the galaxy, and when you need a big godamn hero, you've really only got one choice (other than Shepard). Zaeed's your man! SpartHawg948 21:36, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

That is if he isnt hell bent on getting revenge on vido, if you took the parogon rout and didnt gain his loyalty he would probably let shepherd and his whole team die just to kill vido.--Legionwrex 21:43, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * (Edit Conflicts Abound)I know, Zaeed totally should've been able to survive! As for the thread, we aren't nearly done yet. A fifty post thread that tends to be on the front page is by no means going to attract BioWare's attention, at least not yet. I just thought you might be interested to know we're making progress. Arbington 21:44, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflicts indeed) He might let this "Shepherd" person die, but given that he can stay loyal to Commander Shepard even if you let Vido live in ME2, I doubt he'd let Shepard die. He'd probably just demand that Shepard help him kill Vido after they save the galaxy. SpartHawg948 21:45, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, Zaeed seems pretty loyal to Shepard, and either outcome for his loyalty mission leads to possibilities for his return in ME3. Arbington 21:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Are you kidding, knowing zaeed he would sell out the whole galaxy to the reapers on the condition that they find vido and bring vido to him just so he could kill him in person--Legionwrex 21:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is why he did just that in ME2? Ummm.... no. He fought loyally alongside Shepard. Zaeed isn't stupid. If he sells out the galaxy to the Reapers in exchange for Vido, he gets revenge, but then loses pretty much everything. He's too savvy a businessman to sell out the galaxy (thus undercutting his entire business) to get revenge on one person. He's a lot smarter than some people give him credit for. SpartHawg948 21:52, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * (I Absolutely Despise Edit Conflicts) Or, Zaeed could see it as Shepard owing him Vido's head. Those who choose to delve into Zaeed's character and personality would learn that he's not just loyal to cash, but that he has a whole "honor" thing going for him as well. H would most certainly not sell the galaxy to the Reapers, at the very least. Arbington 21:54, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict again) Indeed. He makes it pretty clear how he feels about Reapers and their minions, and you're right. He's not the type to make stupid deals like selling out the galaxy or betraying Shepard just to get Vido, especially after ME2, when he sees firsthand that Shepard is likely his best bet at getting to Vido and killing him in the first place. SpartHawg948 21:57, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well for the poeple that let vido get away, if there is another loyalty mission in ME 3 I hope you can do a paragon inturupt to stop zaeed from killing vido--Legionwrex 21:56, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, Vido kinda shot Zaeed in the face, left him for dead, took over his until then reasonably moral Blue Suns, and turned them into an amoral killing machine. Vido kinda deserves to die, at least in my opinion. Arbington 22:02, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

Atleast in my option that doesnt give zaeed the write to kill him, he should be brought to court where he can pay for his crimes.--Legionwrex 22:05, September 4, 2010 (UTC)