Talk:Tali'Zorah nar Rayya

It says quite clearly in the ME forum that Tali is a party member in ME2. We should add this to the article.


 * No, it does not say anything of the sort. Please read the section on this page entitled "No confirmation for ME2...yet". SpartHawg948 22:44, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * it says that tali is a recruitable squad member for the suicide mission on the developer posts


 * Please provide the link for the developer post in question. The only link that has been thus far provided states nothing about Tali being a squad member, as I address in the "No confirmation for ME2...yet" section. SpartHawg948 11:54, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's Tali too, based on interpretation of that one forum post (the "can't pretend it's not her in the screenshots" one), the problem is there's no total concrete evidence yet. Do you have a link to this developer post so we can put this to rest?--TheWilsonator 11:49, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Jarrett Lee lists the confirmed party members which includes Tali: http://meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=695694&forum=144&sp=75


 * Patrick Weekes said he worked a few followers for ME2 (Tali, Miranda and 2 unannounced ones): http://meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=696810&forum=144   98.194.244.255 17:45, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Finally, solid confirmation, you're a godsend! i'll put down Tali in the squad member section on the ME2 page.--TheWilsonator 19:00, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I wonder what the other ships in the Flotilla are called. I already know of one, the Rayya. I bet one of the ships is called Abaran or Keelah. Hmmm... "Tali'Zorah vas Keelah..." the Keelah must be the ship Tali will join when she brings the geth info back to the Flotilla. And yet, I wonder where the Flotilla is now... Tullis, do you know? (I AM NOT SPAMMING THIS!!!)

New Name
Wouldn't her new name be Tali'Zorah nar Normandy? Thunderstream328 19:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * vas Normandy, if she's completed her Pilgrimage, but she says she wants to go back to her people after the mission, so she'll likely be joining a quarian ship. --Tullis 19:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if Tali decides to stay aboard the Normandy, she will most likely loose any title that associate her to the Migrant Fleet - but she might earn a different title that honor her in some way (the fleet will most likely see her action of defending the galaxy with the forces of the citadel, as a restoration of their lost honor). --silverstrike 20:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think what he means is that we should change the article name to vas Normandy as per the new character announcement trailer, in which, upon Tali's exile from the fleet, another Quarian says "Go in peace, Tali'Zorah vas Normany,"


 * I don't think so, Steve, for two reasons. 1) If you will note, these posts are from LONG before that quote or any info on a name change was released. These people were merely commenting on whether her name would change or not. And 2) The conversation on the possibility of a name change for the article takes place much farther down on the talk page (oddly enough, under the heading Name Change... what a coink-of a-dink, eh?). Spoiler alert: As of now it looks like it's not gonna happen. Read the aforementioned section to find out why. SpartHawg948 21:26, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * it's offical Vas Normandy is in during ME2 good job guys figuring it out...10 months earlier then announced -76.21.106.232 08:18, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

A Rumour
Yesterday this article was edited, as someone added "rumours" about ME2 plot. I'm naturally not sure if any of them is true, though they were called by name - *rumours*. If this site's purpose is to provide actual information about ME universe, it should involve also unconfirmed news as long as it's clearly written that they're unofficial. We must remember that all the idea of this site's existence is about bringing entertainment and not lifeless data only. I kindly ask for permission to restore deleted paragraph for the greater joy of people visiting ME Wiki. --Twinker 09:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a place in the wiki for unofficial explanations, events, or otherwise that will occur in Mass Effect 2 - But, those bits of information need to have some ground. The comment that was deleted relates more to someones imagination, rather then something that was hinted, noted or relates to something official that was said. Mentioning speculations and wild imaginations will cause the wiki to stop being useful - you can search for the term garol that explains this problem. --silverstrike 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Forums are for speculation, wikis are for information. If we open the door to unfounded speculation, the wiki quickly degenerates into a place where anyone can post whatever ideas they come up with. That means genuine facts and information get lost. Cutting down hard on speculation also makes the wiki a trustworthy source. Besides, that rumour did not have a link to any discussion thread or posted article, and appeared to be an individual's idea rather than an actual 'rumour'.
 * As Silverstrike says above, we have had this discussion before on other topics. Last year around the time the PC version was going to be released, someone created their own race and star systems in the Mass Effect universe, and started incorporating them into articles as fact. It caused a lot of problems and the best route we've found after that, I'm afraid, is to say, "unless it's confirmed, it belongs on a forum, and if posted here speculation will be removed." Sorry. --Tullis 15:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Your argumentation makes sense. I'm kind of new here, and thought there's enough space for interesting speculations on Wikia. Now I'm beginning to understand how irritating it can be to search for a concrete piece of information and find an article full of doubtful content. By the way, I wonder is there a forum dedicated especially to speculations about ME. --Twinker 18:00, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's the official forum, and there's a list of other fansites on the useful links page. --Tullis 18:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Apperance in ME2 or this a new girl?
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-mass-effect/49798

Naming Conventions
This article states that Rayya is the ship Tali was born on, but the page on quarian's says that "nar" means "child of", making Rayya the name of one of her parents, or possibly her family. Clarification, please? --HighTime 10:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's how quarian names work; the latter half of their name is that of the ship they were born on (hence 'child of') or have joined after their Pilgrimage. 'Zorah' is her clan name, which may possibly be her family name. See the bottom of the Pilgrimage article, or the Trivia section of Tali's article. --Tullis 12:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Tali's face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNzUwrYSyCc This is a clip of Tali's face underneath the helmet

No confirmation for ME2... yet
Ok, wanna clear this up again- it has NOT yet been established that Tali will be a squad member in ME2. All the forum post people keep liking to says is that she will appear in ME2, but does not state that she will be a squad member. Ok, so what? We know that most, if not all, ME squad members will appear in ME2. In the paragraph above the one mentioning that Tali will appear (but not stating that she will be a squad member), it is clearly stated, "Don't assume too much from the *tiny* amount of video, screens and info we have released." And of course, our policy on this wiki is also one of not making assumptions. If new info comes out confirming that Tali will be a squad member, fine. Until then, any edits to that effect will be considered speculation, and treated accordingly. SpartHawg948 11:06, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Protected Page
As some of you may have noticed, this article is now protected. I will lay out the rational for this, short and sweet-like. Over the last few days, we have had several editors insert demonstrably false and speculative content to the article. If you do not know to what I am referring, allow me to enlighten you. This has been cited as evidence that Tali will appear as a squad member, when in fact, it says nothing of the sort. It states that she will appear in the game, but does not specify in what capacity. Further, before Mr. Lee confirms that the quarian in the screenshots is Tali, he advises viewers, "Don't assume too much from the *tiny* amount of video, screens and info we have released.". We at this wiki also have a policy against assumptions, and for that reason the page has been temporarily protected. If you are aware of a source that has gone unnoticed, please advise me, and if the source does confirm that Tali will be a squad member, the info (and source) will be added and the protection will be lifted. Thanks. SpartHawg948 06:58, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think in light of the links provided at the top of the page, the protection on the page can be lifted.--TheWilsonator 20:24, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

"Go in peace, Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy."
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/masseffect2workingtitle/video/6241256?hd=1&tag=topslot;thumb;3#toggle_video

Someone needs to change the article. -Proconix 18:16, November 25, 2009 (UTC)Proconix

Eh, I went ahead and did it. So never mind. -Proconix 19:15, November 25, 2009 (UTC)proconix


 * Removed for now as the link was incorrect and the paragraph had spelling /capitalisation errors. Please check your edits. --Tullis 19:33, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Redid it, sans errors and with the link provided and all that good stuff, as well as some more background info. SpartHawg948 23:31, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I really hate getting spoilers just for checking edits. : ( --Tullis 23:34, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed... oh well. We did kinda sign up for the gig, spoilers and all. :( But hey, give it about 2 more months and then we won't have to worry about spoilers anymore! SpartHawg948 23:38, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

The Quarian lady at the end said "Keelah sava" or something like that. I think the "Keelah" phrase isn't more of an expletive as more like somebody yelling out "Jesus Christ!" when they are in a like situation. 24.87.4.53 14:10, December 14, 2009 (UTC)

ME2 quote
Ideally, quotes on squad member pages should be something said by that squad member, if there's one in the vid. I'd try to avoid Shepard quotes for the same reason we don't use Shepard pictures; everyone says different things. Took me ages to pick out the one for Shepard's main page... ; ) --Tullis 21:01, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Quote Spacing
What's with the insistence on having a useless space above the top page quote? It's unnecessary and just looks messy since the top doesn't align with the character box. I say either delete the space or have the quote a line above everything else centred in the very centre of the page. Evidently it's not my call though. Personally I think having the quote above the character box looks much nicer. JakePT 04:56, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Article name
Shouldn't it be Tali'Zorah, and just that? JAF1970 07:44, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * No, as that would constitute a spoiler for ME2, and it is of course improper to refer to someone by first name only unless you know them personally. As this is an encyclopedia, we tend not to do that kind of stuff. :) SpartHawg948 09:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * And as for the inevitable "but her name is no longer nar Rayya as of sometime in ME2", as Tullis stated somewhere else recently (the exact page escapes me at the moment), we'll most likely end up treating it the same way we did Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya, who towards the end of ME:Ascension became Lemm'Shal vas Idenna. If you consult that page, you will see it begins with "Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya (later Lemm'Shal vas Idenna)". Dollars to doughnuts this will be what happens to the Tali page too, after ME2 releases of course, to avoid the spoiler issue. SpartHawg948 09:21, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't go around saying "I'm Jonah Falcon of New York" to anyone, then say "I'm Jonah Falcon of LA" when I stay there. JAF1970 02:30, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well... that's kind of what the quarians do, when they change their home ship. Tophvision 02:39, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * But your actual name isn't Jonah Falcon of New York, so it's not a valid comparison. If you came from a society that operated the same way the quarian society does, it would be another matter entirely. It's all spelled out in the quarian article in the section on language. SpartHawg948 02:42, December 1, 2009 (UTC)

If it means anything, the official ME2 website is now listing Tali as simply Tali'Zorah. http://masseffect.bioware.com/universe/characters/tali/ JakePT 00:51, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Handling the article name

 * A thought occurs. On TLJWiki, after the sequel Dreamfall came out, we had a lot of issues with characters, what their articles should be called and how we should handle their information. We generally kept the article as the same name and put their Dreamfall information underneath it. This might help us when ME2 comes out; some examples are here.
 * April Ryan
 * Brian Westhouse
 * White Dragon, and how we handled a complex disambiguation page / search issue.
 * --Tullis 13:35, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I still think we should just handle it the same way we did Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya. That way, we keep the article name the same as when the character was first introduced while acknowledging the name change right there in the very first sentence. It seems like a very good system to me. SpartHawg948 01:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that pretty much is the same system. I was just talking about how we divide information. Just... trying to helpful. --Tullis 15:21, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm not saying you aren't being helpful. To the contrary, in fact! I will be completely honest though, I followed the links, didn't see anything right away about name changes and realized that in order to find it I may have to wade through articles full of stuff I had no knowledge of or context for, which, given my state of alertness at the time, seemed a rather daunting task, so I decided to just come back here and restate my position, for repetitions sake. :) SpartHawg948 21:48, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

If we handle Tali the same we handled Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya then Tali's page would have to look something like this: Tali'Zorah nar Rayya (later Tali'Zorah vas Neema, Tali'Zorah vas Normandy), or something like that. --Revan&#39;s Exile 21:30, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * It sure would! That's why I said exactly the same thing 5 days ago! There's even a section of this talk page dedicated to it! Please see "Further name complication (and yes, there are spoilers)", where this topic is discussed, and has been for nearly a week now! :P SpartHawg948 21:40, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Age & Time Between Games
The new profile for Tali on the official Mass Effect website states that her age is 24. It was my understanding that Tali was a teenager during the events of ME 1. Could this be a sign of the time that passed between the games? Tophvision 00:57, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Two things... first, Mass Effect is Mass Effect, not Mass Effect 1. Secondly, no, not really a sign of the time that has passed between the games. If you will refer to the Timeline article you will see that approx 2 years separate Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. This would, of course, mean that Tali was not a teenager in the first game, but was in fact 22. While she was referred to as young and going through a rite of passage, you have to also factor in that she is not human. Her people may live longer than humans, and it would seem that their timeframe as far as when someone enters adulthood differs a bit from our own. Also, I don't believe it was ever stated how long she had been away on her pilgrimage. It's possible (however unnlikely) that she was a teenager when she departed the fleet to begin her pilgrimage. SpartHawg948 01:23, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Further name complication (and yes, there are spoilers)
Something just occurred to me while doing some edits for another newly-revealed ME2 character. Tali actually now appears to have a total of 3 names at various times. She was, of course, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya in Mass Effect, then, as we have now learned she becomes Tali'Zorah vas Neema when she returns to the fleet, as it has been stated that she joined the crew of the Neema. Then the whole treason brouhaha, which results in her becoming Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. So we're gonna have to list that accordingly. Do we want to do it "Tali'Zorah nar Rayya (later Tali'Zorah vas Neema, later Tali'Zorah vas Normandy)"? SpartHawg948 06:13, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * We could just follow the official site's example and for simplicity's sake rename the article "Tali'Zorah". I'd think that would be preferable to a very long article title or multiple articles or having to pick one name over the others (which would likely be an argument between "nar Rayya", her original name, and "vas Normandy", her most recent name). -- Commdor (Talk) 06:39, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna try and keep that as an option of last resort. It is always preferable to have full names rather than half names, and as nar Rayya is the original name she is introduced as, that'd be the most likely winner for article name. We'll mull it over I guess and try to work something out. SpartHawg948 06:45, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * If her name is only vas Neema for a brief time when we meet her again, and she spends the rest of the game as vas Normandy, I don't have a problem with keeping 'vas Neema' to her Mass Effect 2 section and just having "nar Rayya, later vas Normandy" at the top. And I don't have an issue with this article being "nar Rayya", either. It's not inaccurate, any more than a person's maiden name is inaccurate after they get married. "vas Normandy" redirects to the correct section for that name, so what the article is called overall shouldn't be a problem. We can always create a "Tali'Zorah" redirect if people have issues. Which would not surprise me.
 * Bloody quarians. : ) --Tullis 13:41, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough! SpartHawg948 21:59, December 12, 2009 (UTC)