User talk:Lancer1289

Welcome to My Talk Page. If you don't find an issue that you have brought up with me in the past, then please check my archives because I have moved a lot of it to there. However I ask you to NOT edit there, just drop me a new message to bring up the discussion again. To leave me a message, please click on the "Leave message" button above, rather than just editing the whole page. That way I know what to look for. Thanks.

Please do leave me a new message unless there is a conversation that is already in progress that you wish to comment on. If you have a question that has no bearing on a conversation that is under a heading, then please don't edit there. Just leave me a new message. For example, if you see a section called Help, but your question doesn't relate to what the conversation was about, then PLEASE don't edit in that section, just leave me a new message. The comments will be moved to the end and I'll create a new section for it.

About darn time...
Hey Lancer,

Been nearly two weeks since you last logged in. You feel you're behind the spat between yourself and Dammej? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 21:04, July 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * No offense intended, but that is something that personal and I'd rather not discuss it. Lancer1289 21:38, July 5, 2011 (UTC)

Spelling
Sorry about that. I won't do it again, I promise!

D^=

CoffeeShopFrank 05:04, July 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Please read the top of my talk page as I don't like cross page conversations. I do ask people to respond to any message I leave on their talk page to make things not only easy to follow, but reduce clutter. Lancer1289 05:10, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

C'mon
Dude, c'mon. That was a legit picture and I was working on the size. please leave it alone
 * No it wasn't as it is quite small, low quality, and a grainy image. Also see your talk page as you haven't answered a question I left. Lancer1289 21:02, July 6, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry to bother you again...
I was just wondering about what I needed to do to delete my signature page since I plan to use a standard signature and therefore no longer need a custom signature page. I had left you a message on your talk page earlier on Saturday asking about having my signature page deleted, but since I haven't received a reply, I was just wondering if I need to do anything in order to have the page deleted. Again, I'm sorry to bother you about this, but I didn't know who else to ask since I'm still new to the Mass Effect Wiki. If you could please help me with this problem, it would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time. BicycleCat ( talk ) 23:38, July 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well you could have asked any of the other admins as I've been off for a week, but I can take care of that now. Lancer1289 02:53, July 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * He could have if he'd been aware that you were "off for a week". However, given that he's a brand new editor, and that none of us knew why you were gone, for how long, etc, (see User talk:SpartHawg948), perhaps cutting BicycleCat some slack is in order? SpartHawg948 06:02, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Missing Title #1
Hi,

I'm Wikia staff and just editing blogs written by other Wikia staff with their permission.

Thanks for your inquiry.

Bchwood 20:29, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Edits
Hey I was just wondering if edits in the "Trivia" section can be deleted for speculation, as some of mine have. And they are substantial. Thanks!
 * (edit conflict) Trivia items can be deleted on that premise if it can't be supported with what they have listed. However you state that many of your edits have been reverted, yet this is your only edit here, so which edits in particular are you talking about? Lancer1289 06:41, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I've been a regular Mass Effect Wikia visitor for about a year now. I've never felt the need to create an account, so that's the reason for having only one edit. I just edited the Conrad Verner page in the trivia section. I thought it was pretty clever. I realise I mistakenly left out part of the title. I was just wondering why the rest of the post was deleted.
 * The Conrad Verner page hasn't been edited in about two days now, so I'm guessing you are referring to the edit to the Citadel: The Fan page. The post was removed for a good reason, it was name trivia, which by our standards, isn't trivia without support, and like visual comparisons, generally more than most trivia. The support cited was a stretch at best as it only takes part of the title, and is about a "crazed" fan. There are plenty of things about "crazed" fans of anything, and the plot of the movie also don't lend much, if any, support to it. This is just another case of name trivia, where something has the same name, but the connection is merely a coincidence. If you want to prove it, then I recommend going to the BioWare forums and getting devconfirmation on it as that is the more than likely only way it is going to get in. Lancer1289 07:01, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Ok thank you for taking the time to respond to my question. Only one more thing, how will I know who to ask for confirmation?
 * You can ask directly for a dev to comment, sometimes it works, but in order for it to go in, you need a dev, someone who has a "BioWare" tag on their profile which shows up below their Avatar when they comment in the forums. Anyone else, and that isn't enough. Also note that this has to be independently verifiable, meaning that you get an email/private message and saying that you did means nothing as we can't see that and that isn't a source. It needs to be something we can see and that we can verify so a forum page is the only way in this case. Lancer1289 15:52, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

When to place the Inactive User category?
Hey Lancer,

Just wondering what the criteria is for categorizing a user as an inactive user? If the time since the last post is 60 days or more, for example, does that warrant me or any other user to edit a profile page with the inactive user category (and ONLY that), or are Admins the only ones authorized to do this? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 00:33, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, there is no established policy, probably because the category doesn’t exist, but there is a policy about categorizing user pages, as in we don't permit categories on user pages. The only circumstances anyone is permitted to edit the user page of another is to remove vandalism, or an admin can if they have left a message asking the user to remove something and they wait a week. So the answer to your question is no, you are not permitted to do that. If you wish to make a proposal about creating categories like this, then you know where to go. Lancer1289 00:56, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Auto-refresh 2
I've heard you know how to add an auto-refresh feature to special wiki activity page. If true, would you please tell me how to do so? I would love to enable it on the answers wiki. Mitranim 16:40, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Apologies for the delayed response, but I was working on something and wanted to finish it, I had to eat lunch, and finally I had to look up what you were looking for. What you need to do is copy the text below, don't hit edit, on the page or this section, just copy the code, and place it into your "MediWiki:Common.js" page. Just don't include the quotes when you are putting it in the search bar. If you do hit edit, don't include the and  tags.

/* * ADVANCED AJAX AUTO-REFRESHING ARTICLES */ var indicator = 'http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/dev/images/8/82/Facebook_throbber.gif'; if (!window.ajaxPages) ajaxPages = new Array("Special:RecentChanges","Special:WikiActivity"); if (!window.ajaxCallAgain) ajaxCallAgain = []; var ajaxTimer; var ajaxRefresh = 60000; var refreshText = 'Auto-Refresh'; if( typeof AjaxRCRefreshText == "string" ) { refreshText = AjaxRCRefreshText ; } var refreshHover = 'Click the box to enable auto-refreshing of the page'; if( typeof AjaxRCRefreshHoverText == "string" ) { refreshHover = AjaxRCRefreshHoverText; } var doRefresh = true; function setCookie(c_name,value,expiredays) { var exdate=new Date exdate.setDate(exdate.getDate+expiredays) document.cookie=c_name+ "=" +escape(value) + ((expiredays==null) ? "" : ";expires="+exdate.toGMTString) } function getCookie(c_name) { if (document.cookie.length>0) { c_start=document.cookie.indexOf(c_name + "=") if (c_start!=-1) { c_start=c_start + c_name.length+1 c_end=document.cookie.indexOf(";",c_start) if (c_end==-1) c_end=document.cookie.length return unescape(document.cookie.substring(c_start,c_end)) } } return "" } function preloadAJAXRL { ajaxRLCookie = (getCookie("ajaxload-"+wgPageName)=="on") ? true:false; appTo = ($("#WikiaPageHeader").length)?$("#WikiaPageHeader"):$(".firstHeading"); appTo.append(' ' + refreshText + ':   '); $("#ajaxLoadProgress").ajaxSend(function (event, xhr, settings){ if (location.href == settings.url) $(this).show; }).ajaxComplete (function (event, xhr, settings){ if (location.href == settings.url) {$(this).hide; for(i in ajaxCallAgain){ajaxCallAgain[i]};} }); $("#ajaxToggle").click(toggleAjaxReload); $("#ajaxToggle").attr("checked", ajaxRLCookie); if (getCookie("ajaxload-"+wgPageName)=="on") loadPageData; } function toggleAjaxReload { if ($("#ajaxToggle").attr("checked") == true) { setCookie("ajaxload-"+wgPageName, "on", 30); doRefresh = true; loadPageData; } else { setCookie("ajaxload-"+wgPageName, "off", 30); doRefresh = false; clearTimeout(ajaxTimer); } } function loadPageData { var cC = ($("#WikiaArticle").length)?"#WikiaArticle":"#bodyContent"; $(cC).load(location.href + " " + cC + " > *", function (data) { if (doRefresh) ajaxTimer = setTimeout("loadPageData;", ajaxRefresh); }); } $(function { for (x in ajaxPages) { if (wgPageName == ajaxPages[x] && $("#ajaxToggle").length==0) preloadAJAXRL; } });

I hope this helps. Lancer1289 18:07, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Worked like a charm, it did the thing instantly, both for wiki activity and recent changes. You have my gratitude, this will save a freakload of F5s. Thanks! ^_^ Mitranim 18:16, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Your welcome. It was something that you will find easier as now you can just leave your computer open and work on something else, and just glace over every now and then. I do like the system because of that, no more button mashing. Lancer1289 18:19, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * That's the whole reason for me. When you have a need to keep track of every edit, it's pretty much a necessity. Thanks again! Mitranim 18:24, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * No problem. Perhaps I might stop by the answers site again and see what can be done. I did a while ago, but I haven't in a while. It's something to think about for me. Lancer1289 18:27, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

Quick note
Just a quick note: headers in forums and talk pages do not, strictly speaking, constitute "comments". For example, if I leave a comment on a talk page, under a headline I create, the comment is mine, but the headline isn't. If there is a spelling error or some such, it can be edited by someone else. I can cite precedent, if you like, most notably one from a while back on my talk page. So, for example, IP 74.240.16.119 did not violate cite policy by changing the improperly spelled headline reading "Heritics Revision" on Talk:Geth to the correctly spelled "Heretics Revision". Thanks, SpartHawg948 19:42, July 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I thought they did, but I guess not. I'll remove the comment then. Lancer1289 20:41, July 11, 2011 (UTC)

hi from Technobliterator
Hiya, it's Technobliterator. You may remember me, as the one who proposed templates adding. Well I just popped in to say that I haven't forgotten about the wiki or the proposal. I think as a way to put the idea forward, I'll go about it in a different way; would a Special:Chat meeting be any good? Also, I'd still like to improve the articles any way I can, I feel bad for yet editing the wiki much.--Technobliterator 17:36, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * I personally think the problem was the topic wasn't focused enough, or specific enough, to get people interested. For an example, there is currently a discussion to overhaul the Cluster Templates, and that is quite specific. If you have a proposal, then don't get us wrong, we're all ears, but again I do personally think the problem was it was just a general topic, one that didn't have a lot of focus. What you need to identify is something specific, and then work on it as that seems to be how things generally get done. Broad topics usually die out as there really isn't anything specific, which I can point to another two examples, the Forum:Updating the ME2 Enemy info box, a forum used to update the infoboxes you see on the enemies from Mass Effect 2, and Forum:Infobox for Mass Effect enemies, which was used to create the current infobox for Mass Effect enemies. Don't feel bad about not editing, we all have days where we don't, but again, if you find something specific then make a proposal, which again I think was the problem last time, not specific enough. Lancer1289 18:48, July 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm. Well my issue is that to be specific, I'd have to create the infoboxes in the first place to show exactly what I meant. Without access to MediaWiki pages, I'm not able to create them on this wiki to show. Do you have any alternatives? And well, I've just achieved sysop rights on SporeWiki, which is the reason I haven't yet been able to properly contribute to the wiki, although with this idea I'm hoping to do that.-Technobliterator 21:52, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Maybe create a box on that site, and then just link it here. It's just again, you need to be specific as the previous attempt was way to broad and tried to do to many things at once, not to mention the lack of visual examples probably didn't help. Again I can suggest that you perhaps create them at the spore wiki, or maybe even set up a test wiki, I think asking the staff about that wouldn't be a bad idea, and then just provide the links. Lancer1289 23:16, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see, I'd be better off doing that. Should I make an entirely new forum containing the new visual example? I think first I'll just stick with doing a character infobox, and with that in place we'd already have the meta-templates, with the next step being where to go from there with the meta-template. After that, I'd go on to one for the navbox. Does that sound like a good way of doing things, with more specification?--Technobliterator 23:20, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * You might encounter problems with the words "meta-template". That caused a lot of confusion last time, I still believe it does, I don't remotely understand it, and the same goes to a lot of other people as well. That really needs to be explained better and perhaps you can get more support for it because again, it is a very confusing topic. If you want to overhaul the Character template, then my recommendation is to just expand on what is already there, and avoid the meta-template, because it probably was one of the main reason that interest was lost because it wasn't explained very well, and the system you proposed for changing every template on the wiki didn't go over very well either for that reason. If you can find a way to explain it better, then that can only help you case, but people generally don't go for things if they don't know what is going on, and especially when something is proposed to replace something, and it can't be explained very well.
 * You keep trying to push the meta-templates, without explaining them well, or giving a good example of it. If you can again find a good way of expalining it, or finding a good example, or at least one abotu ten times better than the ones you previously linked and demonstrated, would be a good idea because as soon as you start talking about it, you might lose a lot of people right there as the concept isn't explained. Again I would just recommend expanding on the current template as you will probably get a lot less fuss over it.
 * As to a new forum, that would probably be best, but wait on creating it until you have something to propose. And some helpful advice on that front, don't put the forum, and then start working on it, as that is generally how things die around here, and quickly I might add. I would also recommend making a sandbox page for the example, then linking that for two reasons; one, that is how things have worked in the past; and two, because that way it falls under the user space protection policy, which means that no one but you can edit it, unless you give others permission to do so, which is probably a good thing. Lancer1289 23:38, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well I don't really know how to explain meta-template besides that it's a template for a template. So if I have Template:Infobox, and I make Template:Infobox character, then Template:Infobox character will be using the contents of Template:Infobox. Some examples: w:c:spore:Template:Infobox & w:c:spore:Template:Infobox creature. This allows for consistency & ease in creating new templates. If I implemented it here, I could overhaul the existing infoboxes to use the meta-templates, if even agreed it proved better than the original system. I'm not sure how better to explain it. Sadly, the meta-templates we use on SporeWiki make it so easy I actually struggle with editing templates which don't use a meta-templates. :P
 * I'll get something to propose as soon as I can, and I'll await your reply here. If you say that it's good, then I'll put it forward in a new forum.--Technobliterator 09:58, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * I must have overlooked this earlier, apologies. Anyway I do again think that trying to propose Mega-Templates again will cause a lot of hang-ups, especially when you are proposing overhauling everything, which would require a separate proposal altogether. Whether intentional or not, that implies a time consuming process and not everyone was for that, and I doubt they will be this time around. We have templates that do work, and work well, and the thought of replacing them, with something that may not work as well, is something of a catching issue. Right now I would again advice you to just work with what is already in the template and expand on it and don't bring in a meta-template as it will more than likely again cause problems as it again can't be explained very well. I'm not trying to make this difficult, I'm just rereading everything in the previous forum, and there wasn't a lot of support because it couldn't be explained very well, and right now, just working with the current system is probably the bets thing as it will prevent problems and people not supporting it because it will overall imply a new standard, that in all honesty may not work well here. Not to mention infobox is a very broad term and not specific enough for people here. So just to say it again, just stick with what is there, expand on that, and unless you can explain the meta-templates better, just leave it out. Actually, it probably would be best to leave it out all together for now as you are proposing overhauling every template, which would require a lot of work, and a completely separate proposal. Just work on and expand on the character template and leave out the meta-template as it could cause you more problems than it would solve. Lancer1289 00:06, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Ok, so I'll work on a new version of the character template with what we currently have. I see what you're getting at; it was probably much too soon to propose overhauling every template. Hmm... if I later propose usage of the meta-template afterwards, shall I call it a Base Template, and not claim to overhaul everything so soon? I think that'd be better. Anyway, I'll propose it on a forum soon as I get round to it, using a link to a sub page of my userpage for a sandbox of it, as a new character infobox. I'll then introduce the base template. Does that sound good with you?--Technobliterator 19:00, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think changing the name will do anything as you again have to explain what you are doing and it won't take long for people to draw the connection. If you propose anywhere in that forum to overhaul every template, or even more than the character one, then you will not get any support. Overhauling every template will require a separate proposal and, more than likely, a lot of separate proposals. Just working with what we have is a good idea, and it will more than likely get you more support, and if you really want to keep pushing the meta-templates, then that is up to you, but I don't think you get very far. Lancer1289 16:06, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Redlink Guideline Clarification
I looked for our guideline regarding removal of red-links in pages but could not find anything in the Mass Effect Wiki:Community Guidelines or Mass Effect Wiki:Manual of Style (although the latter should not mention it) and could not find anything regarding this issue. The policy forum post only apply to pages in user space - so what is the guideline regarding red-links in the Main namespace talk pages? --silverstrike 12:41, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * It actually applies to anywhere on the site, "Administrators of the wiki will be allowed to remove all red links (wanted links: categories, files, pages, templates) from user pages, talk pages, and wherever else any red link may appear across the wiki." However as the policy says, only admins, meaning Spart, myself, Commdor, and JakePT, may actually remove the links. You cannot remove the links as you are not an admin. If there are any further questions, I'll try to answer them. Lancer1289 15:50, July 13, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I understood the part about the admin status from the forum post, but wasn't sure to what the rules apply - someone should update the guideline page to include this. --silverstrike 16:18, July 13, 2011 (UTC)

Red-links in talk pages
Hey Lancer, I was just going through Special:WantedPages and Special:WantedFiles and noticed that most of the red-links listed are from talk pages or user space. I wanted to notify the users, but the issue is that after the week has passed, I still don't have the right permission to remove the links.

So, I thought about listing the relevant pages that have red-links in them in a somewhat orginized way to help track them. Now, I didn't know if I should open a new topic on the projects forum or just leave them on a random admin talk page.

The table list the pages where the red-link is found and the link itself. If you think that such a table is a good idea, then I'll continue to update it (currently it only lists the wanted files) and add a column for date when the user was notified (when applicable).

So, What do you think? And should I move this to another more appropriate place? --silverstrike 17:58, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Well first I would like this table off my talk page, as I really don't need this here. As to a page in the projects forum, considering only four people can do this, I personally think that is inappropriate and wouldn't accomplish much as it could give people the wrong impression. As to who to contact instead, I would suggest Commdor as he is the one who initially opened the forum on the issue, has pushed for this issue in the past, and has been more proactive with this in the past. I really don't care about this issue as there are so few wanted anything, in terms of red links, that it is a low priority for me. Again, I would suggest contacting Commdor about this given his experience in this issue and the fact he is the one who pushed for it. Lancer1289 18:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC)
 * Sorry for not replying sooner, I just didn't really know how to take your response - it seemed a little harsh (to put it lightly) and uncalled for, but I'll take it as me reading too much into it. I commented out the table and will remove it shortly after (and if) I find a better location for it. --silverstrike 20:03, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * You are reading too much into it. I had a list on my talk page, that I didn't even know what I was supposed to do with. Not to mention, I really didn't want it here as it would have no doubt just gotten larger and smaller over time, and I would have had to be dealing with it on a constant basis, until eventually, I would have said to take it somewhere else. That is not something I remotely wanted to deal with, the annoying "You have a new message" popup every 10 minutes with this. I would suggest a sandbox for making the list, and then talk to Commdor about it since he is the one who was proposed the policy. Lancer1289 16:12, July 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I moved the table to the wiki sandbox and I'll talk with Commdor about dealing with it. --silverstrike 17:10, July 17, 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect how exactly?
RE: Arc Projector

How exactly is listing Cerberus as a manufacturer incorrect? when it states in the E-mail from the Illusive Man that: "Our operatives waged a highly successful battle against a geth scouting party and credited their success to a new advanced electrical attack device that we finally let them take out of the lab." (which is enough evidence that it was Cerberus that developed and manufactured the weapon)
 * No it isn't as that indicates that they did research on it, but it doesn't say they developed and manufacture the weapon. They could have gotten the plans from elsewhere and then adapted it, but that still doesn't remotely mean they are the manufacturer. Bottom line, there is no concrete proof that Cerberus designed and built the weapon. Lancer1289 06:04, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * I see, thanks for clearing that up. :)
 * Yes, it does mean that Cerberus is the manufacturer. Weapons that are one-of-a-kind, which it is HEAVILY IMPLIED that the Arc Projector is unique, are not built in factories; they're built in R&D labs. Such labs are what the Illusive Man is referring to.SlayerEGO1342 14:32, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * And once again you show up. I'm beyond now thinking this is a coincidence as this has happened way too many times. I think you regularly patrol my edits, then voice your opinions against me for whatever reason. You always show up in instances like this, and like I said, this has happened too often to be a coincidence or random acts of chance. I really think you have it out for me for whatever reason and until you are right, you won't give up, which you aren't in this case, yet again. I was acutally thinking as I went to bed last night, will he show up, and low and behold, you are here.
 * As to the issue again, "heavily implied" doesn't mean manufactured. Where's your beyond a reasonable doubt that Cerberus manufactures the weapon, developed the weapon, or anything else? Again, bottom line, there is no concrete proof, and you saying what you are, will not change that. If you want it to say Cerberus, then go and get some proof, because you don't have it. And no amount of leaving messages saying "heavily implied" will change that. Either get proof, or stop arguing it because site policy is that it has to be stated beyond a reasonable doubt, and there is still doubt in this case. Lancer1289 18:41, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * "...has to be stated beyond a reasonable doubt." In all honesty, the point I'm trying to make here is that your doubt is unreasonable. SlayerEGO1342 19:14, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * No your proof is not beyond a reasonable doubt. I will not argue this any further, you don't have proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and until you get that, this will go nowhere as there is no proof beyond a reasonable doubt. So either go and get that proof, or stop leaving message which just continue to point out you don't have proof. Lancer1289 19:17, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Why doesn't reasonable doubt count as proof? SlayerEGO1342 19:22, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There are portions of the email which imply that the Arc Projector may be unique, but there are other portions implying production on some scale, which would mean it isn't unique. And while you are correct that unique weapons are often built in the R&D labs, once production on any sort of scale takes place, it's usually done somewhere other than the lab. And from what we've seen, Cerberus seems to favor outsourcing its weapons. Anywho, there is, to be sure, absolutely nothing in the in-game material confirming that Cerberus is the manufacturer of the Arc Projector. For all we know, the R&D lab that produced it could be a lab at Cord-Hislop Aerospace or some other Cerberus-affiliated corporation, as opposed to Cerberus itself. SpartHawg948 19:23, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * As for why reasonable doubt doesn't count as proof, that should be a no-brainer. If there is reasonable cause to doubt the truthfulness of something, it isn't proof. It's pretty much the entire basis of trial-by-jury. SpartHawg948 19:25, July 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thank you, SpartHawg, that was very helpful. I only doubted that Cerberus wasn't the manufacturer because it DID, seemingly as a prototype/one-of-a-kind weapon, come from Cerberus. I say it's on its own in this world because the Illusive Man never uses plurals in describing it. SlayerEGO1342 19:28, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

Missing Title #2
Noveria: Peak 15 Article

Sorry about that I was trying to make a link for Alestia Iallis for Noveria: Peak 15, but i didn't already see that there was a link for her and i forgot to take that one off.
 * Yet again, my simple request at the top of the page, where the edit button and the "leave message" button are, gets ignored again. Lancer1289 02:50, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just a suggestion: you can create a clearly seen link (or a button) on top of the page that will function as the "leave message" button. something like: . --silverstrike 20:43, July 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * You could have just left the code and I could have looked at it in preview to see if I liked it. I don't need an example of something when the code is here. As to the suggestion, maybe, but I don't even like how it looks and I removed the example as again, I could have just looked at it in preview and decide if I liked it or not. Lancer1289 15:59, July 17, 2011 (UTC)