Talk:Upgrade Guide

Duplicate article
Isn't this article a bit redundant, given the other page on the same subject? I do admit to this one having a better title though. It would also provide justification for the ship upgrades to be included. Twilsemail 20:14, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Dang, I don't know how I missed the other page.Nhindman 20:29, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

--- Looking through the page, it doesn't have the costs (which are mostly missing here) and the formatting is not as good in my opinion. I'll try to find time later today to merge the data between pages, and then figure out whether to move/merge the pages.Nhindman 20:37, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

If it is an upgrade guide, isn't it better to reorganize by Location, not type? Kasugurami 04:35, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Depends what you want to do with it. The two uses I'm looking for are at the end of the game, trying to figure out what I missed when I have 4/5 of something, or which missions I should take first if I want to max out assault rifles. Nhindman 06:17, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

--Comparing the two pages again, the format for the other page works better for a location based list, while the tables here work better for an upgrade type list. I'd suggest the other page be converted into a list of missions and which upgrades can be found on a mission, cross linked so you can find both formats depending on what you want to do. Nhindman 17:55, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

One thing that the other page doesn't have, which is why I found this pagein the first place, is the associated cost of each upgrade. Also, the other page doesn't even mention upgrades that are unlocked, but not found. That being said, I think it makes sense to include ship upgrades as well. Blindman25 18:43, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

I think this page is pretty much done for now, though minor formatting things can still be debated and changed (ship upgrades do exist at the bottom, and I feel grunt's shotgun research under "misc upgrades" is enough). Alphabetizing/reordering the catagories... maybe. I feel that the first half of the Mass Effect 2: Upgrade Locations page should be deleted for being redundant having worse formatting, but the second part sorted by location should be kept. However, since I've put a lot of effort into this page I don't feel I'm an impartial observer. I'll let someone else do the changes. Nhindman 22:24, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

I think we should merge them both (probably to the Upgrade Guide) and have two sections in it. The first is by location so people can read it as they play through the game and the second is with the tables listing everything. Bioevil087 03:53, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Since it's been 4 days, I'll go ahead and be that "impartial observer" who will move the "By Locations" section on the other page to here, and then redirect people from that page to this page. Dch2404 17:19, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

M-300 Claymore Heavy Shotgun
I just thought I should point out that this weapon can actually be learned from and built for Grunt before the Collector ship. True, Shepard can't use it unless you specialize with it, but it is available beforehand. Vund223 18:08, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Costs
A strictly aesthetics issue - we need to reformat the costs field. Turn it into numbers (not the k notation) and justify it. It's beyond my skills, though. -DarkJeff 16:50, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tech Upgrades...
Forgive me if this has been answered elsewhere. I did a search for "Tech Upgrade" and nothing specific came up. I'm playing as an Infiltrator. All of their powers (Tactical Cloak, AI Hacking, Incinerate) are Tech powers. If I get a Tech damage upgrade, it seems pretty obvious that the damage of my Incinerate will increase, but what about Tactical Cloak and AI Hacking? Tactical Cloak eventually has a damage boost. Will the tech damage upgrade increase the bonus damage? AI Hacking does no damage at all. Will the tech damage upgrade do anything for AI Hacking? Servius 06:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Tactical Cloak doesn't get a bonus from anything, I believe. It was stated in a post by Eric Fagnan on Bioware, but I don't have the link handy. The only thing that'll help AI Hacking is the duration boost. As far as I know, anyways. --DarkJeff 07:05, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Proposal: table the information
I played around with the content of this page, to make it somewhat easier to find. I made a partial version of this page (not all the information is moved, yet) here: User:Silverstrike/Sandbox/Upgrade Guide.

I moved the information into a table (some styling is still needed) and made it sortable for easier searching for the information. Any ideas or comments? --silverstrike 20:07, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like the current heading structure better. Easier to find the one instance of the colored big word I'm looking for. 69.165.157.88 20:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I disagree. If you sort by the column you are interested in and then use your browser's find function to jump straight to the first entry, it works just as well with less verbosity. It also reduces the risk of an entry being edited in one location but not another; maintaining only one set of data is better than two copies with different organization. The only thing I'd like to see is for the sort to allow you to not only sort by location, but by order of discovery within that location (which can be found first, second etc.). Obviously only relevant to missions, but that's where it is most critical; if you miss it you might not be able to go back. This might be solved simply by putting a number after the Location:Specific entry, so sorting by that column sorts by order of discovery within the quest, as well as location of discovery. ShadowRanger 20:30, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I like that idea, adding a number before or after the location link should be sufficient. --silverstrike 20:35, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, could you include the cost for the upgrades? Or at least a column to hold them when verified? I think most of the credit costs in the existing article are slightly erroneous; they're the price *after* you've charmed/intimidated the owner into lowering prices, or completed the price drop mini-quest. Most weapon upgrades run 60,000 credits base IIRC, and drop to 50,000 only after cajoling. ShadowRanger 20:43, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cost could be added and show either credit cost or minerals needed (the inclusion of the discount with or without the full price is still something to discuss - I have no issue with it either way). --silverstrike 20:50, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the "after" price is sufficient if it is noted up front and the charm/intimidate is easy enough. Do you know how hard it is for a first time player to get the requisite Paragon/Renegade to convince owners to drop prices? I've only played with level 60, maxed out Paragon/Renegade imports (I abuse the infinite Paragon/Renegade exploits from the first game, so I start with +190 in each), and usually wear the Inferno armor, so my charm/intimidate abilities vastly outstrip a first time player's. If a new player starting from scratch can't reasonably meet the requirements for a while, we should list the base and discounted price. ShadowRanger 20:56, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I also played with an imported character, but got to the Omega market/Citadel very soon and didn't even try to raise the paragon/renegade bar. I think that the requirement for convincing the shop keepers to give you a discount is pretty low and most will be able to achieve the discount (I think that the game count on that - even after the discount you can't buy all items). Mineral quantity, on the other hand should be before the 'discount' - I think that engineers can get a discount on level four of their class power. --silverstrike 21:06, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is silly to depend on the browser as a crutch to account for poor formatting. I understand and support the need to reduce redundancy, but the proposed version does look very poor and messy at the moment. Maybe adding horizontal lines would help; I don't recall a Derelict Reaper Disabled within the game.69.165.157.88 20:55, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The formatting is different, not better or worse. The existing page has the advantage of a good table of contents, which isn't really possible on a dynamically sorted table, thus the need for the browser assist. I believe the benefits of the dynamic sort outweigh that (on top of those mentioned above, it means a consistent format for all entries, no matter how they are sorted). ShadowRanger 20:59, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * The formatting is different, AND is worse (IMHO). When you depend on a browser asset to find things, that is worse when compared to a format where no browser asset is needed. For the current format, I don't even need to look at the TOC. The current sortable table looks messy, like a homogeneous wall of text. Just to reemphasize, horizontal table borders might alleviate this issue. 69.165.157.88 21:17, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was planning to do something quite similar once things got less hectic. Needs styling improvements, and perhaps a little CSS magic to inject into the TOC (if possible) but the basic idea is good. One useful trick with sorting by order of discovery is to have the relevant cell start with a sort key wrapped in a . With a little tweaking it may be possible to get the best of all worlds. --DRY 21:22, February 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * I know there is still some work to be done on styling (it indeed look a bit messy), there is no problem inserting a TOC to that table (it will become somewhat redundant after first sorting) - theoretically, with a minor use of JavaScript, we could set a special TOC to highlight certain rows on the table, or show only those rows and hide the rest - alas, it is not possible...
 * I don't think that we should hide the number - but I'm not against hiding it. --silverstrike 21:39, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can't seem to sort that page, possibly due to browser issues. I think it is fundamentally a bad idea to rely on javascript when it is not necessary to clearly portray the information.  I don't really see where the table format gains anything that is worth breaking it on some browsers.  --Nhindman 20:53, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's no browser issue - there is a user issue - I accidentally removed the sorting behavior, but now fixed the mistake. You can try sorting through it again - there will be no problem.
 * You can still understand the data without the JavaScript code, it just help with the sorting. You can also turn off the stylesheet for the site and the data will still be readable and clear - the stylesheet just helps a little. --silverstrike 21:10, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Order of Locations Information
The old upgrades location page had the locations listed in the order that they appeared in the game. Which seems to be a lot more useful, as if your hunting for a specific location there's the contents page, but if your playing through sorting through the whole list is a pain. (looking at each section as you play through it from the start)

Does anyone object if I re-order the locations section so that it is listed by game progression rather than alphabetically?


 * It's not a particularly useful sort though. Too many clusters of missions (Dossier, Loyalty and N7 missions) have no required order. Even if you order them all by when they become available, you'll have giant clusters without an internal ordering, and it still won't be a simple "get everything in this order", since main quest missions will trigger and prevent you from completing them in availability order in any event. As is, you can simply click the ToC link for whichever mission you are actually playing, and it doesn't enforce a specific play order to do it either. ShadowRanger 05:41, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps material for an ME2 version of the Completionist Achievement Guide? --DRY 20:48, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Bypass and Hack Modules
Is there a reason they're not listed here? The Bypass module is at Serrice Technology on Illium and the Hack Module is at Harrot's Emporium one on Omega. They're both listed at 25000 credits after discounts. Why does the table list the discounted price for everything too? Tetracycloide 12:20, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

I think it might be useful to list the star charts on this page as well since they're upgrades of the galaxy map as much as ship upgrades are upgrades for the ship. I'm not 100% sure what this is supposed to be a list of, however, since it appears to be a mix of everything you can buy at a store other than custom armor pieces (which one could make a strong argument for including given the presence of the various weapons on the list most of which do not require any research be done) and anything that can be researched. If it's just a list of research upgrades then there are a lot of things that should be removed and if it's more than that there are a few things that should probably be added (like star charts and custom armor pieces).Tetracycloide 17:06, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

Extra Rounds
Concerning any "extra rounds" upgrades (I believe they're researchable for shotguns and SMG's?), I know they increase the ammo capacity for these guns, but not the clip size. The game says, "This bonus affects the entire squad." But would this really improve these weapons for squadmates? Don't they have unlimited ammo? Basically, would a shotgun ammo upgrade be useful for someone who does not use a shotgun, like an adept/sentinel/etc.? --Crush. 11:33, March 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm pretty sure this is simply an oversight on the part of the developer. I have never, ever seen a squadmate run out of ammo before- even those using sniper rifles or shotguns (park them behind cover and they'll fire the former for minutes on end). Having the shotgun upgrade always available always makes some sense, because any class that doesn't have them can learn to use them on the Collector ship, but the SMG upgrade is utterly useless for a Soldier character. UERD 06:41, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Credits added
I added a table of credits here. It seems like the best place for it, since they are really only used to purchase upgrades. So now you can reference how many credits are out there with how many you need. I'll keep my copy of the table for a while in case there is an uproar about it not belonging here and someone deletes it.Karstedt 21:01, March 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is a good addition becuase it provides a quick one glance reference to the amount of credits you will earn over the course of the game. Good job. Lancer1289 21:39, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Now that it's up and I'm looking at it, it might be useful to include resources in the table... They might not 'fit' though. I may compile a list and see if I can fit them in. Obviously, resources are less of an issue because those available in mission are so minimal anyway. But if I can make it look decent, I'll probably add them.--Karstedt 00:28, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see a way to fit resources in there without messing up the ascetic. So I'm going to leave it as just credits. There's only around 20k of each mineral (6500 eezo) in missions anyway, so they don't significantly impact the totals you need.--Karstedt 23:27, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Would someone be so kind as to update the credits table with the Firewalker assignments, I cannot figure out how to extend a table.

Here's a summary:

Project Firewalker: Rosalie Lost - Funding 7,500, Found 7,500

Project Firewalker: Geth Incursion - Funding 2,500, Found 2,500

Project Firewalker: Volcano Station - Funding 1,250, Found 375 (Also 1 Medi-Kit)

Project Firewalker: Survey Sites Located - Funding 1,250, Found 1,250

Project Firewalker: Prothean Site - Fund 3,750, Found 3,750 Thanks 202.89.152.105 03:50, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * Done.--Karstedt 12:47, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Level 6 upgrades?
Can anyone confirm weather or not getting a level 6 upgrade will boost damage to 60%? I've heard that using console binds, unlocking upgrades using numbers beyond their in game intention will increase the bonus. But I've not heard anything about weather or not actually buying/researching beyond level 5 in game has any effect.--Karstedt 13:06, March 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * The sixth heavy weapon upgrade clearly works (can't fire the Cain twice in a row without it); I can't imagine why the sixth damage upgrade wouldn't. ShadowRanger 15:37, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Spreadsheet to track Minerals-Needed
Just to let you guys know I've made a spreadsheet that'll tell you how much more of each minerial is required to get the remainder of the upgrades on your playthrough, you have to manually change the "N" (No) to "Y" (Yes) for each upgrade you get but aside from that its automated, I wasn't sure where to put this so I figured discussion part of the upgrade guide was the most relevant, its on my user page near the bottom if anyone wants to try it -- Ilovetelephones 20:45, May 7, 2010 (UTC)

Move
This is a small thing I want to fix. According to Category:Guides, this article is the only guide where the word "guide" in the article's title is spelled with a lowercase "g". All this move will do is capitalize that "g", so the article becomes "Upgrade Guide". Nitpicky, yes, but you can't cut corners if you want quality. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I also agree with the move proposal for naming consistency with the other guides here. All of the other Guides have that capitalized and I see no different with this one. Lancer1289 21:07, June 14, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't know where this addiction to capitalising random words comes from, but it seems to be the accepted standard here. So, sure, go ahead and move the page if you feel compelled to. --84.44.236.56 21:15, June 14, 2010 (UTC)