Talk:Grunt

Legality
Is it legal to copy/paste an article like that? 114.73.163.118 04:16, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Something I was wondering myself. I think because the source is provided it is ok, but not 100% and as more information is received this page will see a lot of changes.

Ascension
His wikipedia description states he appears or was at least mentioned in Ascension. Does anyone who's read the book remember in what context? --TheWilsonator 17:18, October 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure that's a load of you-know-what. Wikipedia is far from reliable, after all. If I am proven wrong, I will gladly retract the previous statements, but I do not recall Grunt being in Ascension at all. SpartHawg948 11:48, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, no, no. On Wikipedia it says "He is encountered on Omega, a space station located in the Terminus Systems and first mentioned in the novel Mass Effect: Ascension", it means Omega was first mentioned in Ascension, not Grunt. --Joshtopher27 19:48, November 17, 2009 (UTC)

Only 22!
Grunt is only 22 years old, which i find refreshing. While Wrex's age isn't really nailed down, I think it's safe to say he's pretty old. It'll be cool to see a more youthful Krogan in action. Effectofthemassvariety 03:21, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

So he is basically a krogan teenager? Nice!


 * In all likelihood that's not his actual age. As explained by one of the developers the website people may have gotten his age from casting documents and 22 represents a human age equivalent. Anyway, it's sounding like 22 isn't is age, and the cinematic trailer lists him as 300+, which isn't enough evidence to put him as 300+ either, but it shows that his age is still unknown. JakePT 03:33, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * You made that up, nothing lists his age as 300+ unless of course you count the backwards number that is after a word that cannot be read. THe official website lists it a 22 therefore that is his age. 68.61.39.252 12:03, December 20, 2009 (UTC)
 * All you have to do is take the frame from the Blur Trailer which shows grunts profile and flip it in paint, and voila, you can clearly read all the info. It clearly says Age:300, Species: Krogan, Genophage: Infertile, Gender: M and other information about grunt. Now 22, might be his age... in Tuchanka years. Since we don't know the orbital period of Tuchanka this is irrelevant. But notice on Samara's Bio it says estimated 600 human years for age, but not for other alien characters. Now, considering that Krogan can live for over 1000 years, a 300 year old Krogan might be the equivalent of a 22 year old human. Consider the following: Humans can live 150 years. A 22 year old human has lived about .15 of its life expectancy. Now, if a 300 year old Krogan is equivalent to a 22 year old human, that means the average life expectancy is about 2000 years for Krogan. Considering that Wrex has been speculated to be about 1400 years old, this isn't an unreasonable estimate.--71.234.106.119 07:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I have been over this with people and nobody can find any source for krogans being able to reach ages of over a thousand years, in fact that seems to be based on the assumption that all krogan alive were born before the genophage. Youcannot take the trailer as actual fact, it is only a trailer a promotional video that has no real weight when it comes to the mass effect universe, do you remeber the decisions tv spot for the first game, noveria was incorrect and i ont think the other planet even exsisted. The official age is 22 years, thats from the official website. Thats the stuff that the creators of the game have written, and thats how old he is. ralok 14:23, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose we'll find out won't we! And I do think that the Majority of the Krogan alive were born before the Genophage, because that's the reason there's as many as there is. The main reason their race is dying is because their breeding rates are nowhere near enough to keep up their population. As the older Krogan are dying there are none to replace them.
 * No the breeding rate is not a problem,they are capable of reproducing offspring, if they live a few centuries then it is reasonableto assume that if the krogan would sit still organize themselves and stop killing each other they couldactually have population growth, minus hte trauma of failed pregnancies. Wrex has said it, it isnt the genophage thats killing them, its themselves being idiots. ralok 16:19, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well that is a gross oversimplification of the problem. As is made clear several times, the genophage is killing the krogan, all that is affected by their behaviour is how quickly it happens. Even if Wrex gets his way and the krogan settle down and start attempting to have kids rather than killing each other, it's still going to be virtually (if not utterly) impossible for them to have any population growth. The fact that only 1 in 1000 pregnancies produces a child sees to that. All that would happen is that the decline would slow. You can't expect to see any population growth when a finite number of krogan women have to keep getting pregnant, carrying to term, and giving birth with only a 1 in 1000 chance of producing live offspring. No, it's safe to say the breeding rate is the problem. It's a numbers game, and the krogan are on the losing end. SpartHawg948 20:30, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well clearly there is a difference of opinion here. ralok 02:17, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * I suppose you can call it that, if you must, although the facts seem pretty clear. To quote the Codex, "The genophage makes only one in 1,000 pregnancies viable, and today the krogan are a slowly dying breed." Hmmm... slowly dying, eh? And note how the genophage is the sole reason listed as to why the krogan are dying. Again, you can't sustain a population with ever dwindling numbers, and a 1 in 1000 chance of having a child assures dwindling numbers. SpartHawg948 02:29, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * But you dont know how many pregnancies a krogan female is capable of a year, and they can live to be at least three hundred years (according to what info I have dug up)so there isnt enough information to say the genophage is the sole reason their race is dying, it sounds traumatic (999 failures for every succes) but that is human standards. ralok 02:36, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * No I don't know how many pregnancies a krogan female is capable of. What I do know is that, according to the OFFICIAL BioWare sources, "The genophage makes only one in 1,000 pregnancies viable, and today the krogan are a slowly dying breed." Slowly dying. Dying as in extinct. And it doesn't say anything in any entry about the krogan being able to do anything about it, even by doing what Wrex wants. In fact, Wrex is the only one who states that there may be a cultural aspect, and he's hardly unbiased. Official sources say the genophage is driving the krogan to extinction, not their culture. As someone said recently on another talk page, you did not create Mass Effect, ralok, BioWare did. BioWare says the genophage is killing the krogan, not their culture. Simple as that. SpartHawg948 02:42, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * But that was the ingame codex, i would think the testimony of a member of the species would overide what is written in the history book. I have stated my case, it is probably wrong but there it is thats what i have to say, also please do not revert that edit on the main page though, i wouldnt mind if it was in the trivia that his youth is a rarity amonngst krogan, but saying he is one of hte few alive born after the genophage is on outwardly an innocent peice of trivia, but beneath the surface is a brooding world of arguements speculation and confusion ralok
 * It is in the in-game codex. So? The in-game codex is basically considered the ultimate canon source for ME. Dialogue is often unreliable and biased. Wrex is providing support for a radical (for the krogans anyways) political/social philosophy he is espousing, which again, means that his word is hardly unbiased. The codex, on the other hand, is considered the best source aside from actually having it depicted in front of you during gameplay. Additionally, several sources support the theory that regardless of social practices, the genophage is killing the krogan. Only Wrex says anything different, and even he admits that the only way to assure the survival of his people is with Saren's cure. So again, the official sources say that yes, it is the birthrate that is killing the krogan, not the social practices of the krogan, which is demonstrated multiple times to be pure speculation. SpartHawg948 03:07, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * I argue different, only because it is generally confirmed in ascension that the codex is in fact an in universe tool, most likely written by humans. I expect that this is actually a prelude to explain the differences in the mass effect 2 codec, but for now I feel that a very neutral position should be taken on this subject, such as writing that the krogans problems are only worsened by their society and culture. but this is actually a large divergence from the orginal topic sentence of this talk, so I suggest that this conversation be postponed until a future time in which new information that conflict with either of our previous statements is presented, i am now going back to playing Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland. ralok 03:20, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * Of course the codex is an in-universe tool. That in no way, shape or form invalidates it's information. It's an in-game encyclopedia. That's why we have the policy that Codex articles are copied verbatim, and that the Codex is always right, unless directly contradicted by the game (ie the rachni). SpartHawg948 03:27, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * What i mean is that the codex actually exsists in the universe, rather than exsisting as a tool for the player to understand the universe better (i am sure thats what you mean aswell) however that does mean "human" error is possible (as it has been shown by the game) so basically, we have no idea until more information is presented. ralok 03:39, December 28, 2009 (UTC)

I'm guessing they lay eggs like a turtle, have like 500 eggs and forget about them, that or like a crocodile, lay a bunch of eggs and protect and go bereserk on whoever is near them, if they're alive, if they're dead, eat them and try again

err, Mordin clearly states that the genophage isn't as horrible as everyone thinks, it just keeps the krogan population normal. Sooo, is the codex incorrect? (as Mordin created a genophage) X0 RG 0x 22:13, February 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. The codex seems to represent a 'general consensus' type of knowledge within the Mass Effect galaxy. For example, it lists the reapers as a myth and the Rachni as extinct. In mass effect 2 it describes the battle of the citadel according to the way teh council sees it (Saren was in command and Sovereign was just a big Geth ship.) It is an encyclopedia, not the actual factual knowledge as gained by Shepard.


 * And it isn't just Mordin who thinks the Genophage will not kill of the Krogan. Okeer has the same opinion and seems to think that quality instead of quantity is what the Krogan should be aiming for. 134.58.253.57 09:29, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

---SPOILER---

In the last Sci Fi Video about ME2, we can see Grunt in a Cryo Tub and Shepard "waking him up"... I think that Grunt is in fact young, but come from the "past", may be from the period of the war between the council and the Krogan Cyphius 05:12, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

--SPOILER END---

---SPOILER---

By the by, you're all wrong. If anything his age is measured in weeks if not days if you take into consideration that the flawed Krogans determine their age by the time they where released from their tubes. Born fully grown and ready to kill.

--SPOILER END---

Grunt on Tuchanka
New trailer says Grunt is recruited on Tuchanka http://kotaku.com/5425151/the-mass-effect-2-cinematic-trailer-at-the-vga. If this gets taken down, this is from the VGA that just aired tonight on Spike. Illusive Man voices over Shepard recruiting by talking to Miranda about locations he goes to and recruits, Illium and shows Thane, Purgatory and shows a shadowy bionic. Looked rather manish to me, but probably SuZe. Finally "sunny" Tuchanka where it shows Grunt fighting a Thresher Maw. I will back all this up by reminding that it has been stated Grunt is MET on Omega but Shepard is there for a salarian operative.--Xaero Dumort 02:47, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Class
Grunt is a Vanguard, correct? I saw the intro video, but on his wiki page there was no mention, so I'm a bit confused. H-Man Havoc 17:35, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I dont think so, I ont think he has biotic abilities of any type, he might have once but if hhe id that means there would be five biotic teammates in Mass Effect 2, thats alot . . . wait vangaurd are biotic right. I dont know im horribly confused. ralok 14:27, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Vanguards are biotic warriors. I haven't seen much of his biotic powers, but he is classified as a battlemaster due to those traits. In the cinematic trailer released on Xbox LIVE, then subsequently on other sites, he gets shot at but then its shown that he has a barrier ability. Additionally, Vanguards are particularly skilled with shotguns, and that so happens to be the weapon he's using.

H-Man Havoc 20:29, December 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes he gets shot and his kinetic barrier briefly shows, thats all that i can see in the cinematic. If you recall all characters have shields, in fact there is a specific moment in bring down the sky where you get shot and your shield saves you. ralok 21:58, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I'm not discrediting this, but when Shepard gets shot, the Kinetic barrier appears to be more faint, while Grunt's is more purple. I believe this is the barrier ability at work.

H-Man Havoc 01:47, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

No, simply no. You are over analyzing somehting very minor. He is not biotic, there is four biotics on the team already. Plus that would make him to similiar to wrex. ralok 01:54, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * There's actually 5 biotics (Miranda, Jacob, SuZe, Thane, and Samara). So yeah, Grunt is definitely not biotic. As for a class, I'm sure he's some sort of soldier variant.--Matt 2108 01:59, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

Who's SuZE? Besides, I guess he's not. H-Man Havoc 02:26, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

I think he means subject zero given she is the only one unaccounted for. Dtemps123 01:40, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Back thing
is it my imagination or is his back alot smaller than that of an average krogan. ralok 14:50, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * No, his "back thing" (or hump, as it is referred to in the game and by... well, by pretty much everyone) does appear to be smaller. Probably due to age, if I had to guess, but maybe we'll find out in ME2. SpartHawg948 19:44, December 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would have used the word hump, but i was traumatized by the usage of that word during my youth (dont ask to long of a story) so i just avoid using that word ralok 03:01, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
 * The 'hump' is likely smaller due to genetics and such, a smaller hump on a Krogan is like a smaller hump on a camel, the programers probably just loaded one simple template in ME and now we might see greater variation, in the main characters atleast.Kre &#39;Nunumee 04:07, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence that the size of the hump is genetic. Nor is the size of a camel's hump a genetic matter, at least not purely one of genetics. The hump of a camel is, of course, full of fat, which provides the camel with energy/sustenance when necessary. When the fatty stores start to get used up, the hump gets smaller. It is also theorized that the hump minimizes the amount of heat trapped by the rest of their bodies, as the insulating fat is contained in one area, as opposed to being all over the camels body, which would be an advantageous feature for an animal that lives in the desert. Likewise, we know exactly what the krogan hump is for, as the codex entry on krogan biology makes it pretty clear: "The hump on krogan's back stores water and fats that help the krogan survive lean times. Large humps are a point of pride; being well-fed implies the krogan is a superior predator." Note the absence of references to genetics. SpartHawg948 06:04, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Bony Ridge
There has been no indication yet as to why Grunt's "forehead ridge" looks different than those seen on other krogans. It could possibly be an age thing (although as you will note above, the age issue is somewhat contentious), it could be due to Grunt belonging to some krogan offshoot, or it could be any of a number of other things- malnutrition (which could also be responsible for his smaller than normal back hump), genetic abnormality and/or birth defect, some sort of deficiency within his system, prior injury, purposeful cosmetic alteration, etc. So please people, let's avoid the speculation. There is a blanket statement in place that says the reason for the difference is not yet known. Once we do know more, that can be updated. Till then though, any guesswork is... SPECULATION!!! (bet nobody saw that coming! :P ) SpartHawg948 22:43, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * It'd be pretty interesting to see Bioware push it as a cosmetic body alteration practiced by the krogan, in the same vein of human reconstructive modification; we'd have a lot more cool-looking krogan. MarinesNeverDie 01:24, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Perhaps they've just upped the resolution and detailing of alien features this time so you can see even the minutest of minute details? Phylarion 11:39, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That could be, but the only other krogan we've really seen from ME2 so far (the supposed Gatatog Uvenk from the Stars of Mass Effect Video, who is shown while Michael Dorn is talking) appears to have the same type of forehead ridge that Wrex and all the other non-Grunt krogans we've seen thus far have. If this is the case, it does suggest that something is different about Grunt. SpartHawg948 11:50, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * What I'm seeing in the Trivia section is suggesting that his appearance and genetic engineering are directly related, though I'm not seeing any official information. If they are related, I find it odd then that no one on Tuchanka seems to think anything of his appearance. Everyone is able to correctly ascertain his age (usually refers to him as a "whelp") and the Shaman calls him "lifelike" which would suggest that he at least looks like he should (though the latter is obviously semantics). It's possible that these plates, like human bones, fuse together as the krogan ages (the ridges are similar in shape to a grown krogan's). I assume this because Grunt also doesn't have a pronounced hump, evidenced by the shape of his suit, possibly due to him being tank-bred and not having a natural krogan upbringing (he'd have no need for the hump at this point anyway). Might just be an age thing. Of course, the krogan envoy to the female clans is also of a young age but looks "normal," though we don't know what the exact age is to begin with. CipherCero 05:21, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * My personal theory is that, assuming he is in fact a "young" krogan, the boniness of the crest is a result of the genetic alterations caused by the genophage. Pax.ephemeral 16:14, January 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Its most likely that he is a tank-bred krogan. Im sure the Krogan Comandeer who bred him (Okeer, was it?) didn't make a perfect replica. Kit-Kat-Kun 03:16, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Ibeeis I'm pretty sure it's because of his age. If you wander around Tuchanka a bit and have conversations with local Krogan (Uvenk and Shaman in particular) while Grunt is in your party they'll often mention "growing plates" in the same fashion you'd use any other "go grow up" metaphor. "Plates" here obviously being their forehead armor. It might be better to ask around at ME2 official forums so that we have a definite source to quote before adding anything though. 19:48, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Protected Page
Ok, here's the deal. I hate protecting pages (this is only the 9th time a page has been protected here in over two years), but for some reason unregistered users seem to want to A) Delete content for no reason (use edit summaries people, PLEASE!!!) and B) Add in pointless speculation (there are all kinds of reasons the ridge could be different, which is why the catch-all "the reason is unknown" statement... why then add one speculative reason and not others?), so for the time being the page is being protected, which will prevent new and unregistered users from editing the page. Hopefully soon some new info will come up that will allow this to be lifted. Worst case, I don't really see this protection being necessary past 26 Jan, when ME2 releases. SpartHawg948 04:12, December 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Honestly I doubt that they will explain it, personally i think it is his age, or malnutrition. I wouldnt bother protecting the page. Since i dont have a job and am essentially worthless to the proffeessional world in my current state of being i will help out whenever i can, i think i have already reverted it like three times (maybe only once). So the fact is that you might have to protect the page after ME2 is released, because they probably wont explain it, But wait until then. ralok 04:26, December 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, it's been popping up at least five times a day lately, and I've pretty much been the only one having to clean up the mess, although one or two other users have also helped once or twice. As for waiting, I think you misunderstood. I wasn't asking for opinions on something I was considering, I was explaining an action I had already done. It's kind of hard to wait to do something you've already done! :P And while it may not be explained, it seems likely that there will be at least some indication of why he is different, as BioWare is fairly good at tying up loose ends. We'll just have to wait and see. SpartHawg948 05:25, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * I was thinking about this earlier when I saw that someone yet again edited the section about the bony ridge... it's like some weird conspiracy was going on. Matt 2108 06:54, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed... I don't normally like talking about conspiracies (I always feel like I need to wear a tin-foil hat when I do :P) but it does at least appear a little odd, so many anon users inserting pretty much the exact same thing multiple times a day, or deleting the same section time after time. Oh well, it's probably nothing. SpartHawg948 07:39, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Voice Actor
Okay, does anyone know who is the voice behind Grunt. I heard plenty of suggestions, and right now I think it's Clancy Brown (aka the Kurgan and DCAU Lex Luthor). This is particularly obvious in the "Meet Grunt" trailer. Someone please put me out of my misery and tell me.--88.107.173.106 16:35, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure if it's legit, but I found this on Steve Blum's website: "Also pick up Mass Effect 2. Beautiful game! I’m Grunt in that one. Love that guy! He has issues, just like me!"--Morlan 23:11, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems pretty legit if it's his official site... Damn, his credits list on wikipedia is insane.--Matt 2108 23:18, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see a few people on the BW forums have speculated that Blum is Grunt's VA as well. It just seems strange to have him voice similar (violent berserker-types) companions in back-to-back BW games (Oghren in DA:O).--Morlan 23:55, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Clancy Brown would have been a huge get... you think he would have been in the voice actor trailer.--Matt 2108 16:37, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Mercenary?
how is he a mercenary if he joins you right as he's born..? krogan super-soldier is what i'd put instead

Big Game Hunters
A big game hunter is a hunter who hunts large animals. The thresher maw is quite large. So I doubt this is a reference to anything aside from the term. It is a very vague similarity between the achievement and a map in Starcraft. Therefore I will delete this "reference". If you disagree feel free to revert my edit.99.145.176.205 05:06, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Killing Grunt
The article says, "It is possible to fail to persuade Grunt to join the party if Shepard is not careful with dialogue options after waking him up, resulting in Shepard killing the krogan." So which dialogue options do that? I've explored all of them, and while some lead to Shepard shooting Grunt, none lead to his death. First set is Grunt wanting a name: "You'll get more than that," and "Of course." Second set is "Why 'Grunt'?" and "You want to die?" Third set is "Join my crew. We'll find it," "You feel nothing for Okeer," "My command is your reason," "Stand down or else" and "I released you. You owe me." The last two will lead to a Renegade interrupt, "You leave me no choice," and "I was being generous"; all of which result in Shepard shooting Grunt, but not fatally. So what am I missing? &mdash;Seburo 18:03, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Try leaving him in the tank for a mission or two - maybe it changes how he acts upon release. - AdoWit

I haven't bee able to kill him either, but I'm 90% sure that its dependant on when you open the tank. See my note on leaving Zaeed to die in the flames (Zaeed's loyalty mission talk page), as its likely the conditions are the same. Nialia 11:31, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

When I updated his recruitment article I tried a few ways to see what would happen. Killing Grunt is completely dependent on your converstion options when you open the tank, not how much time has past. When he is in the tank it is like he is in stasis so nothing really happens while he is in there. You need to use the Paragon or Renegade Persuasion options to get him to stay and not and up killing him, just retried it last night to be sure. If you don't use the persuasions then it is a little more difficult. Lancer1289 15:47 February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Could you give step-by-step instructions on how to kill grunt, please.Darthmaul12332 00:48, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

I've tried really hard to get him killed now. I've used all different conversation options, and at various times during the game, including after the collector mission. I'm almost certain you can't kill him, though I don't know why Lancer thinks you can (shooting him does not mean he dies). Nialia 21:30, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

I belive the strategy guide even says he can be killed, but it doesn't say how. 69.129.164.205 16:15, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty Bug?
Right, who else has had this? After gaining Grunt's loyalty - his Fortification power doesn't unlock, as it says he's not loyal. In the squad line-up he shows as loyal, his appearance can be changed, yet his "special power" remains inaccessible. This seems a random occurrence: happened on my second playthrough but not my first. I'm on X360 but I've also read elsewhere on the extranet of it happening to PC players. Thoughts? ComaDivine 05:45, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * That happened to me on my second playthrough. Second costume unlocked, sqauad status shows loyal, but no Fortification. The completion screen after the mission said his loyalty power was unlocked, but in the level-up screen it says it is locked due to character not being loyal. Talking to him after the mission triggered the post-mission dialogue, about being proud to be Urdnot and having purpose and such, but after that he never refers to my character as Battlemaster. Vund223 15:33, February 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I can confirm the same. I'm not sure what caused the bug exactly since at first I was able to upgrade the skill. It's also available amongst the ones Sheppard can train. It may have nothing to do with this but I recently installed the Zaeed add-on and noticed his power was greyed out after doing a planet mission with Grunt after finishing the Loyalty quest. Grunt still counts as loyal in the crew status screen but like you say his power is greyed out.
 * This is due to doing Mordin and Grunt loyalty at the same time (or bringing both on the Krogan homeworld on each other's mission). Loading before and coming back to Normandy between missions fixes it. I have tested this to happen with missions one after the other (the end of mission leaves you on the planet) and then immediately taking on the next. Moreover, once Grunt is loyal, one can see the Fortification unlocked and spend points. Once Mordin's is done, Fortification is locked again and points returned to unspent. I have also tested that returning to Normandy and doing another mission in between will NOT trigger the bug. I haven't tried doing missions in sequence with only returning to Normandy, but it makes sense for the game to update stats upon return, as it updates gained research and other bonuses like experience.
 * This is due to doing Mordin and Grunt loyalty at the same time (or bringing both on the Krogan homeworld on each other's mission). Loading before and coming back to Normandy between missions fixes it. I have tested this to happen with missions one after the other (the end of mission leaves you on the planet) and then immediately taking on the next. Moreover, once Grunt is loyal, one can see the Fortification unlocked and spend points. Once Mordin's is done, Fortification is locked again and points returned to unspent. I have also tested that returning to Normandy and doing another mission in between will NOT trigger the bug. I haven't tried doing missions in sequence with only returning to Normandy, but it makes sense for the game to update stats upon return, as it updates gained research and other bonuses like experience.

Grunt's opinion on the Collector base
So in the article, it states that if you choose not to destroy the Collector base, Grunt will approve, saying that if an enemy gives you a weapon, you use it. However, when I did just that, Grunt didn't approve at all. He said that Cerberus and the Illusive Man were weak, depending on Shepard for everything, and that therefor it was foolish to turn the base over to them. Anyone else get that? SpartHawg948 07:30, March 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just chiming in - I got the same. -- 12:18, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember him saying that we should keep the base, but I don't remember him saying anything about how Cerberus was weak. Might have to do with who else is on your team (so you always have one team member saying to go one way and another saying to go another).Namfuak 21:42, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * But this wasn't right as it happened, it was when I was back on the Normandy. And it wasn't just Grunt. Nobody on the squad spoke very favorably of Cerberus getting the station. Grunt called Cerberus weak, and most everybody else said something along the lines of "I don't like this idea. I hope you know what you're doing." So I don't think it has anything to do with squad member composition. SpartHawg948 21:55, March 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's just what the game does. In order to "balance" the situation, the game assigns opinions to each squad member, providing the player two sides with which to view the situation. ME1 did this as well--there's a video on YouTube that somehow wound up with Tali being the only squad member, and the game compensated by having her fill in both sides of the dialogue. CipherCero 05:25, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

I had the same thing happen on my first run through (XBOX 360),


 * I'm guessing this was an oversight in the character dialogue. In spite of whatever opinion your squadmates (including Grunt) voiced prior to your destroying the Collector Base, they all (if memory serves) approve wholeheartedly. I haven't saved the base to date, so I can't comment on that eventuality. Incrognito 04:43, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Biotics
I was just reading a bit about krogan and i started to get the idea that battlemasters are the epitome of the krogan soldier (see Urdnot Wrex ;-)). This said, battlemasters need to have biotics. Okeer would have known this so when engineering the perfect krogan would it not make sense to give him biotic potential? When i learned how loyalty powers worked i figured his loyalty would involve his discovery of his biotics (and something he can work for). His actual loyalty is something i am more than happy with but i just was wondering if anyone was thinking the same thing? About wether or not grunt has biotics or not and if not why? Rheyzer 01:21, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, you have to figure that nowhere is it stated that a krogan battlemaster has to be a biotic. Grunt will still refer to a non-biotic Shepard as his battlemaster, with none of the other krogan batting an eye at this. A battlemaster would seem to be the epitome of the krogan soldier, but biotics don't seem to be a must. Battlemasters seem to be somewhat common, given what we learn in ME2, with probably at least one for each clan, as a krogan who has just finished the right of passage has to then serve under a battlemaster, whereas krogan biotics are stated to be rare. And nowhere in the Codex descriptions of Battle Masters (as the Codex calls them) does the subject of biotics come up. So no, I hadn't really figured that his loyalty assignment would involve biotics, especially since we don't know whether any of the krogan whose genes were used to create him were biotic or not. Given the fact that krogan biotics are rare and are viewed with suspicion and fear by other krogan, plus the fact that he's been shown thus far not to be biotic, no, I don't think Grunt is a biotic. SpartHawg948 01:31, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * A well thought out argument on the internet. Its refreshing. Anyway i want to say that the bit about loyalty was just me shooting the breeze and letting my imagination get away from myself. I knew i read about biotics and battlemasters being connected somewhere and i found this on the "Krogan Battlemaster" page of this wiki. "As the Codex details, the Battle Masters were officers of the krogan military. Tough, disciplined, well-armed, and biotically gifted, a single Battle Master is said to be an equal match to ten soldiers of any other species." I do not know if this is in the game's codex or not as i do not have the game in front of me atm but this is what the article says. I also find it uncanny that all krogan battlemasters you fight in-game have barriers, and thus are biotically endowed, where all other krogan do not have barriers and are called something else, lost of troopers and warriors, a few berserkers and one bounty hunter (in ME2 anyway). EDIT: also if you look at the known battlemasters they are all biotic with the exception of a non-biotic Shepard which is more symbolic than anything i feel (it was cool though cuz i was playing a vanguard which is comparable to a battlemaster (shotguns and biotics and whatnot)) Rheyzer 20:06, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that line doesn't appear anywhere in the Codex. There is a line that resembles it: "Since the genophage, the krogan can no longer afford the casualties of the old horde attacks. The Battle Masters are a match for any ten soldiers of another species. To a Battle Master, killing is a science. They focus on developing clean, brute-force economy of motion that exploits their brutal strength to incapacitate enemies with a swift single blow of overwhelming power." (I quoted the entire paragraph so there could be no doubt as to whether it was taken out of context or not.) As for Shepard, that hardly seemed symbolic to me. It was "Shepard is my battlemaster" and then "Ok". (paraphrasing there) No wrangling over "Well, you need a real battlemaster, no having to go to Wrex to have it decided that yes, Shepard can symbolically be the battlemaster. The Urdnot Shaman, whose job is enforcing clan tradition and all that, has no problem with a non-biotic battlemaster. And while all battlemasters seen in-game have been biotic, it is implied that there are many more (as we've only seen a few, and krogan biotics are rare. But anyways, those are my thoughts on the subject. SpartHawg948 20:18, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also most of the Krogan biotics we see are mercenaries, and therefore probably considered outsiders amongst clan Krogan (note that Garm isn't introduced with a clan name). Gatatog Uvenk is an exception, but even he wasn't well-liked or trusted by clan Urdnot. Vund223 21:19, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I suppose my view may be skewed a bit but when Grunt says "Shepard is my battlemaster; he has no match.", and I had Wrex here, the way things seemed to play out i get a vibe like Wrex understands A) How strong Sheppard is and B) How important Grunt is (i.e. Okeer's vison for Grunt) and therefore makes an exception to how tradition usually runs. Also as strict as Shaman Urdnot is he admits to shepard in an e-mail that out of necessity he cannot be as strict or formal as he once was. As for wether or not shepard's battlemaster status is symbolic or not is something we will have to dsagree upon. On the note of Wrex being a bounty hunter, this is common. The codex (under "The Genophage") says that... "But, faced with the certainty of their extinction as a species, most krogan have become individualistic and completely self-interested. They typically serve as mercernaries for hire to the highest bidder..." Also Skarr from the book Revelation was a battlemaster and also a biotic. When it is discovered that he is a biotic it is taken into particular note that he is both a battlemaster and biotic. Even if biotic ability is not imperative to becoming a battlemaster wouldn't it make sense for him to be biotic? Okeer was very old and very smart and would have known that, even if biotics are not entirely undersood or respected in culture, they could only make his perfect krogan better and stronger. As side note about Uvenk, he was not trusted by clan Urdnot more by kogan nature than the fact that he was biotic. Wrex is shown to have respect or biotic users (he remarks in me1 that with how strong Kaiden is he is suprised the humans stopped using L2s) and he still distrusts Uvenk. Rheyzer 00:04, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Don't forget, Wrex fought alonside Shepard. Wreav, on the other hand, had no prior association with Shepard, and actually got along with Uvenk, since Wreav did not believe in Wrex's ideals. With that said, Wreav also has no problem with Shepard being Grunt's Battlemaster. Also, Wreav does not like Grunt, and believes Okeer was an embarrasment to Krogans. He only accepts him into the clan because he completed the Rite, and he is therefore bound by tradition. Vund223 03:27, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well really thats my point with Wrex and it annoys me that there is virtually no difference as to wether or not he is still alive. But Wreav trusts Uvenk even though he is biotic. Also, no matter how you cut it Shepard is not an officer in the krogan military. Really the only way he takes command from any krogan is when Urdnot Shaman sends him an e-mail requesting that he not let grunt die and therefore he understands Grunt's importance in spite of Wreav. Rheyzer 11:48, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shepard isn't an officer in the krogan military. And? Most (if not all) the battlemasters you run into in-game (the ones you mentioned above) weren't officers in the krogan military, they were mercenaries and bounty hunters. SpartHawg948 19:52, March 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats the purpose of my quoting the codex as to the fact that many krogan have split from their clans and gone merc much like everyone's favorite krogan, Wrex. Look this is not the point of this discussion. If you want to have this discussion then move to the krogan battlemaster discussion page. my point is that i don't understand why a perfect krogan doesn't have biotics. 69.116.121.3 04:39, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it could have something to do with the fact that, according to the Codex, krogan biotics "are viewed with suspicion and fear". Or, it could simply be that none of the krogan whose genetic material was used to make Grunt were biotic. SpartHawg948 04:47, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Article Title
If it's common practice to title a article using the whole (known) name of the character, shouldn't this article be titled "Urdnot Grunt" rather than "Grunt"? Sure it's his adopted clan name, but that doesn't make it any less valid. He is reffered to as such by other krogan, and calls himself by the name. Just putting it out there--Effectofthemassvariety 08:39, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because it's only his full name if you complete the loyalty assignment. If not, his full name is Grunt. Since his name is always going to be Grunt, with the Urdnot being conditional (and, btw, a spoiler), it'd be inappropriate, to say the least, to rename this article Urdnot Grunt. SpartHawg948 09:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, yeah. I hadn't considered that. I supposee it would be inappropriate.--Effectofthemassvariety 21:04, March 9, 2010 (UTC)

Urdnot Grunt
Quixk question, shouldn't we rename his page Urdnot Grunt, considering he does become "part" of the Urdnot clan.
 * I believe that this has come up before. The article stays as is because Grunt: Rite of Passage is really optional and he only becomes a member of the Urdont clan after it. That is a spoiler by nature. Lancer1289 05:11, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually it is right above this question. Lancer1289 05:11, April 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. There are spoiler and canon issues with this one. SpartHawg948 05:13, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Grunt's Charge
Can anyone else comment if they have witnessed Grunt's charge doing fire damage that is seemingly indepedent of incencendiary ammo? I thought it was because of ammo at first but I've seen husks and krogan getting torched when he hits them while his gun had squad warp ammo equipped. He also has some fire related taunts he shouts before charging - "burn and die" and "now you'll fry." Dr. Abysmal 08:35, April 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * I haven't used him enough to answer that, but if you had any squad points in his ammo power, that might be the cause. Allies have a very nasty habit of equiping thier own ammo powers to override squad ammo. I have a feeling that if it does occasionally set people on fire from just the charge, that it is a glitch. I'll have to spend a few missions with him to see later. Skelethin 08:41, April 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've noticed that any NPC that's been hit with Incendiary Ammo enough to "burn," even after the flames have been extinguished, turn to ashes on a killing hit. Might just be that. CipherCero 20:28, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

New insight into Grunt's "design"
http://www.pixologic.com/interview/mass-effect2/5/ - Interview with ME2's art directors

The paragraph on Grunt provides some interesting insights. No connection is made between him being tank-bred and the plates on his head. Specifically it does mention them in relation to how a human skull fuses through growth. I'd suggested before that young krogan are born with plates that with age fuse together to form the titular krogan "crown." Thoughts on this? CipherCero 23:06, April 16, 2010 (UTC)


 * Honestly, that what I figured it was the first time I saw him in the game. Its the same reason he has smooth lips and relatively smooth jaw.  At least compared to other krogan. Skelethin 15:25, April 17, 2010 (UTC)