Talk:Biotics

Shepard is a L3 because Kaidan says something like "I spike higher than L3s except for you, Commander."

Shepard would have to be an L3-R. L3's, according to the article, are 25 or younger. Shepard is around the age of 29 during the game, according to other articles. 76.15.134.106 03:17, 30 June 2008 (UTC)
 * This was originally mentioned under L2s: see |article history. --Tullis 06:49, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Adept Class feature video for ME2 shows the character creation screen for Adepts, which specifically states that (as an Adept at least) Shepard is running L5x implants. It also implies that a non adept biotic would be running lower level implants, since only adepts can use singularity without a bonus talent.

Why are L3s 25 or younger? L3s were created 13 years ago. If L3s are 25 or younger, it means everyone gets an implant before they are 12 years old. But Kaidan was at least 16 when he got his implants. Then there is Shepard who seems can be a 29 year old L3. 98.197.189.78 15:36, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * cracks open Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183* "The optimal age of implantation is with the onset of puberty (around 12 years of age)." Same source says that L3s are all 25 or younger. I don't know, it seems odd to me. Humans were still figuring out biotics when the L2s were implanted, and the L1s had been implanted much too late to be useful. Maybe they were still experimenting and it wasn't until the L3s that they found the right implant and right age to use them at. As for Shepard being an L3... according to the GCEE there was another accidental exposure incident in 2154 which fits Shepard's birth date, but that still doesn't explain why Shepard (who is only a few years younger than Kaidan) wasn't at BAaT as well and (if biotic) doesn't have an L2 implant. Like I say - odd. --Tullis 15:47, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * "Optimal" doesn't necessarily mean that everyone gets their implants at puberty. Also keep in mind that the printed Galactic Codex was written by Microsoft based on our internal docs. While we did have a chance to edit it, we had only a couple of days while we were all working crunch to get the game finished. In the event of a discrepency between the print codex and the in-game dialogue and codex, defer to what's said in-game. *cracks open the dev team's timeline doc*
 * 2151 - A shipping accident at Singapore International Spaceport exposes downwind communities to containers of dust-form element zero. [Kaidan exposed in utero to element zero] Alliance begins construction of Arcturus Station.
 * 2152 - Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths. 70% seem normal.
 * 2154 - Shepard is born; apparently was exposed in utero to element zero.
 * 2156 - Some children of Singapore exhibit minor telekinetic abilities.
 * 2158 - Humans learn potential of biotics. Original exposures now actively tracked. Roughly 10% of the initial exposed children show some level of biotic ability. Kaidan and Shepard not detected.
 * 2160 - Conatix Ind. contracted to develop biotics program. BAaT training established on Jump Zero.
 * 2163 - Earliest human-compatible biotic implants attempted. L1 implants yield minimal results due to late implantation. Accidental exposures too infrequent to contribute to research in a meaningful way. Second generation exposures "arranged" in a number of drive system failures over populated areas.
 * 2166 - Turian "expert" brought in to Jump Zero to oversee biotic program.
 * 2167 - L2 implants created. Kaidan among first to get the new implants. His potential increases dramatically but with discomfort. Others yield "unfortunate" results.
 * 2168 - Shepard, 14 years old, received secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests.
 * 2169 - Kaidan, 17 years old, accidentally kills trainer after being provoked. Diplomatic incident forces closure of BAaT training. Kaidan refuses further training.
 * 2170 - Biotic training assumed by military and select private R&D companies, renamed divisions of original Conatix Industries. L3 implants created.
 * 2171 - Shepard officially detected as a biotic and fitted with L3 implants at 17.
 * 2173 - Kaidan returns to military on his own terms. One of the few original biotics from the BAaT program that remains "stable." Refuses retrofit.
 * Stormwaltz 16:54, 7 July 2008 (UTC)


 * There we go, mystery solved. : ) I'll put another comment under the implant section. Thanks! --Tullis 18:31, 7 July 2008 (UTC)

== Quarian Biotics? ==

Exactly when did Tali say there were Quarian biotics at all? In all my playthroughs I've heard her say anything about that or much at all, despite her being one of my allies several playthroughs. --Delsana 22:21, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

She says it in an elevator conversation with Kaidan. --Tullis 23:57, 17 May 2009 (UTC)



Oh well that makes sense, no wonder I've never seen it, I haven't used Kaiden and Tali together before. --Delsana 00:28, 18 May 2009 (UTC)



How would that make sense, though? With the Quarian's immune systems being so weak, and all the precautions they take (especially during childbirth), how would there be any way for accidental eezo exposure? And they'd almost definitely not expose them on purpose. (EDIT: I'm not trying to say that what you're saying isn't true, it just wouldn't make sense in the context of the game) CAW4 00:08, March 5, 2010 (UTC)



Fetal exposure to dust-form Eezo means two things in the Flotilla: First, a drive system or other large mass effect-reliant piece of technology has catastrophically failed. Second, such exposure would involve a serious breach in the expectant mother's environmental suit so that she could inhale the dust eezo. So therefore, if there is a Quarian biotic, their mother survived both a catastrophe on their ship AND a major suit breach. --MadCat221 04:54, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

It might be worth considering a few things. First of all, Quarians are on ships which are ready to fall apart most of the time. Second, Quarians mate without their suits, and are known to take off their suits for any number of reasons - intimate acts, at least. While Quarians are very good at decontamination, eezo is not a typical allergen, bacterium, or virus, so methods of decontamination may not be as effective for containing eezo. At times there would likely be need to replace a drive core before it malfunctions, or replace some part of an old drive core to prevent an unnecessary loss of lives, regardless of the potential risk of eezo exposure. Additionally, Quarians go on pilgrimage and might get exposed then. Finally, what's to say Quarians are affected the same way as humans, and consider how close-quarters the living conditions for Quarians are, and that humans themselves are not frequently exposed to eezo, either? (Nightinerr 22:10, April 10, 2010 (UTC))

Calorie requirements
This line from the Codex has always stuck me as a bit odd:

"The standard Alliance combat ration for a soldier is 3000 calories per day; biotics are given 4500."

My brother is a soldier, and the standard calorie ration for him and his regiment is closer to 6000 calories a day, even when they're just on exercise. Either the Alliance is pumping some very nutritious air through its ships, or the human metabolism has got a lot more efficient. : ) --Tullis 17:03, 21 June 2009 (UTC) 6k calories? Sounds a little excessive to me. Maybe they do a lot of physical work, but the standard in the Australian Army is one ration pack per day (CR1M). It is however, associated with weight loss and we felt like shit when only eating them! 4-4.5k would seem more appropriate to me if performing a lot of physical work. For interest: http://dspace.dsto.defence.gov.au/dspace/handle/1947/3332 118.208.59.90 15:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC) Vyapada

The codex does say alliance soldiers receive a standardized package of genetic enhancements, and while complete re purposing is illegal making the metabolism more efficient would be well within legal bounds. That and it may be referring to a single ration, who knows how many rations per day they eat;) -Belial

Besides the possibility of genetically enhanced metabolisms, it's possible that Alliance soldiers simply don't do much. There are at least four marines on the Normandy whose only physical activity seems to be saluting Sheppard. There doesn't appear to be room for exercise equipment on the Normandy, and most marines on an Alliance vessel would probably only see action in the event of hostile boarding parties making it aboard the ship. Blueshield925 21:50, 9 July 2009 (UTC)


 * All good points. I guess it was too much to hope that someone in the future would invent chocolate air. --Tullis 03:02, 10 July 2009 (UTC)


 * Another point will be that most of the time, the Alliance Marines are in space and are subjected to different conditions. Also important to note is the effect of the mass effect fields in ships, armor, and so on. --silverstrike 16:02, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

What confuses me about this is that biotics such a large ration. The Codex says that biotics takes a toll on metabolism, but I can't figure out why it would. Biotics use their abilities by manipulaing the eezo nodules in their nervous systems. The last time I checked, the energy required to fire neurons was miniscule: a lot lower than a single calorie. So why would a biotic need half again the caloric intake of another soldier when all they're doing is thinking really hard? Blueshield925 06:19, 12 July 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's because they have to generate enough current in order to generate a noticable effect from eezo nodules. All the implant does is sync everything up, and allow the user to turn it into something. It would probably require firing the neuron alot more often than normal, and with greater effect.

Its also worth mentioning biotics do more than think really hard- somewhere in the codex (and I know that's very vague, but I've been up for like a day and a half, don't judge me xD) it mentions each biotic ability is powered by activating different neurons, as was already said. But they do that by manipulating different muscles in their body; flexing very specific muscles while you're also running around popping Batarians would certainly require more energy.

It makes sense that these are the standard rations. Within the US military MRE and other military rations aren't even providing 3000 calories a day, not to meantion it isn't pleasing to eat so they don't exactly finish it all. 6000 calories a day seems way too much for any normal military soldier under combat situations.


 * No way! MREs are awesome! I can't recall anyone ever NOT eating all of theirs. In particular, the beef stew, beef enchiladas, and just about any of the pasta ones were always crowd pleasers. And yes, I am speaking from personal experience here. SpartHawg948 12:40, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know I'm jumping on the bandwagon late, but given personal experience I thought I'd share this: the average pristine (ie. 'fresh') British army ration pack is designed to deliver around 3000+ calories per 24 hours (which with the amount of exercise and work you're doing, combined with the constant adrenaline, is VERY useful). Perhaps the usually space-borne marines consume less whilst not on deployment but when doing so require a lot more. 6000 calories may sound a lot, but bear in mind there are many factors which could raise caloric needs of biotics. Given that such abilities are fictional, we cannot reliably speculate unless the writers actually release something substantial around the topic, although I doubt it. All good works need a bit of artistic license. My personal take? Eeezo manipulation requires such a constant and heavy blast of complex neuronal co-ordination and activity, and the energy to excite it to levels that manifest biotic powers requires a large dose of the body's own energy. Phylarion 03:18, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * The principle behind the higher number was conservation of energy. It requires just as much force (newtons) to move a 100kg mass with biotics as it does to move it by muscle power, and it requires just as much energy (joules). Biotic abilities are hitting the easy button -- you're expending the same metabolic energy, but from a distance and in one instant burst rather than over seconds or minutes of pushing/pulling. Stormwaltz 04:19, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

biotics without bio-amps
is a bio-amp absolutly essential to the use of biotic powers? or is a bio-amp exactly that its name sounds like, an amplifier. can they be naturally accessed at all? prehaps the asari became the dominant species on their planet because of their mastery of biotics over the other native animals.


 * A bio amp is necessary. Without one, the neurons and eezo nodules don't fire in proper alignment. It seems like bad things could happen if you had a bunch of randomly shifting mass effect fields going off in your body. The bio amp lines up the fields and shit.
 * Although it might just be for gameplay purposes, if you give a Soldier or other non-biotic class a Biotic as a bonus talent, they are unable to equip bio-amps, but can still use their powers- albeit at a greatly decreased level than their peers using X level amps. Besides, biotics were originally detected because kids started showing telekenetic ability, so obviously they can do SOME stuff without the implants.

I thought the first game mentioned something about asari who are so powerful they don't need amps. Can anyone confirm this? Magflare 22:09, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

The implants are a permanant implant in the brain that acts as an interface for a Bio-Amp to be plugged into boosting ones biotic abilitys, simply put the implant is a usb slot and the amp is the usb stick with MPC on it, sure you can play most movies with the default windows media player, but MPC does it better, is more or less the same with biotics, you could move small objects but wouldnt be able to use the biotic abilitys in a combat situation to any great effect without a bio-amp. 219.90.155.12 23:15, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well if the implant is just the interface rather than an amplifier, why do they come in grades? And why are L4 and L5 implants better than L3s? If they're just interfaces, what does the on-board VI on an L4 do? And, again, if the implants just bridge the gap between the nervous system and the amp, why do L2s "spike higher" than L3s? It seems to me that everything points the implants doing the work and amplifiers modifying how the implants work. 82.11.249.195 21:28, May 1, 2010 (UTC)

Calorie in take
The average farmer mostly eats between 4000 and 4500 calories if not more, it could be suggested or compared to the idea of general fitness that whatever they did to the soldiers or whatever they do. Has a lot less impact on them in space, considering that gravity with in a spaceship even as far foward in time as Mass Effect one might warrant the possibility that the gravity is not true earth, and the general calorie intake might also have a lot to do with calcium and a number of other things to maintain body density. Plus not every planet they go to will have earth gravity or moon or whatever far off space landing they make. So in truth, all thou they suggest 3k to 4.5k in calories depending on gravity and enviroment chances are they take in much more to support general life support, of there bodies.- WW

Ps. I figured I would add this for consideration. If anyone is able to edit this stuff to make it read better please feel free to do so.


 * Yeah... not really sure how to edit this to make it read better, as I really have no idea what you are trying to say. The Codex specifically states that average soldiers get rations w/ a daily caloric intake of 3000 calories, which is actually pretty consistent with modern standards (eating three US military MREs provides 3600 calories) and biotics take in 4500 calories. Nowhere does the caloric intake of a farmer come into it, that seems to have been brought up out of the blue. There was also no mention in the Codex of gravity or environment. So no, I don't really think this needs to be taken into account or considered, as it seems highly speculative, using outside information that relates not at all to the game to try and offset canon in-game material. At least that's how I read it, although again, the wording is extremely confusing. SpartHawg948 23:30, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Pushing in vacuum?
Please correctly if I am mistaken but here are three facts I believe to be true in the fiction of the ME universe and some logical assumptions based on those fact from which I have formulated a question.

Fact 1

All Biotics use/generate Mass Effect fields (via the magical element zero’s dark energy) to produce their various effects.

Thusly all biotics effects are the result of manipulating mass effect fields.

Fact 2

A mass effect field raises or lowers the mass of all objects with that field.

Fact 3

A mass effect field cannot move a ship by itself only manipulate its mass to allow for FTL travel. Consequently ships need conventional engines to move while in a mass effect field.

Assumption 1

The mass effect field itself is a simple product of dark energy and has no mass themselves it can only manipulate the mass of mater. As such mass effect fields should of themselves possess no kinetic energy nor transfer kinetic energy only object with the mass effect fields have kinetic energy.

Assumption 2

Since mass effect fields cannot have mass and thusly cannot have kinetic energy presumably powers either work via manipulating the mass of a target. IE: Lift created a negative mass effect field reducing the mass of the victims causing them float free of gravity.

Assumption 3

Throw therefore must operate by creating a positive mass effect field increasing the mass of the ambient air which is then somehow manipulated in the desired direction perhaps through some form of mass effect driven artificial gravity or bizarre magical air magnetism. Thusly when it reaches its target the air or other gasses hit with tremendous force thanks to the mass effect field and transfer that energy into the target sending them in the opposite direction.

Question

Assuming all those facts and assumptions are valid in the Mass Effect universe the questions becomes how does throw work in space where there is no air to manipulate to provide the punch for a throw mass effect field.

Possible explanation:

The blue glow that is the signature of mass effect fields is in fact element zero. When using an ability such as throw the biotic actually expels small amounts of element zero from their body to provide the needed mass. This would explain why some human biotic talents do not last, they expel all element zero from their body without a biotic amp to regulate and manipulate this process.

Follow up Question

The of course begs the question about natural biotics such as the Asarai. We must assume that in the case of these races they naturally produce element zero somehow as part of their biology, perhaps all permanent biotics do. But then given the extreme rarity of element zero and value you would think there would be a considerable black market for Asarai to extract this natural element zero no matter how small.

Yes I know I’m over thinking this but I was waiting for a hand off when someone was on a hot streak so I rather had some time to think consider the facts of the fiction as it were. -LaFreeze

They're not pushing in vaccum. They alterate the time-space continuum, which is closely linked to gravitation. The sun, for instance, curves it and attracts objects, which "roll" down towards the sun. Thus, if you change locally the curve of the time-space continuum, through the use of mass effect fields, you can attract people, push them, crush them, without the need of matter inside of it. The throw power doesn't act on air that would be transformed into a weapon, it acts on the target itself. As for the blue light... well, it could be due to ultraviolet light passing through mass effect fields, and its wavelength changing, turning to blue, and transforming the ambient "white" light into a bright blue one. -Night


 * Night is correct. Einstein's general theory of relativity states that time and space is malleable and thus can be manipulated by outside forces, like the way heavenly bodies curve the space around them. Mass Effect fields are not altering the matter inside it, but altering the time-space around the matter. The documentation in Mass Effect states that the relays create a tunnel with no mass in which a ship or vehicle can be instantaneously moved to the connecting relay. The smaller eezo cores on ships used for FTL do the same thing, but they are only able to create a bubble around the ship and in front of it in which its mass is reduced and not nullified. I believe the same principle is applied to biotic powers, in which the user creates a pocket of altered space around their target in which they are either lifted or thrown. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 04:15, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Biotics Without Eezo Exposure
Although it is stated that human biotics are incredibly rare due to the complications of eezo exposure, I noticed that there seem to be quite alot of them in game. It seems that you encounter more biotic humans than nonbiotics! One example, Miranda, was "grown" by her father and therefore couldn't have been expsed to large quantities of eezo and yet developed very powerful biotic abilities. She could have been deliberately exposed, but another posibility could be that humans have developed enough of an understanding of human biotics to be able to geneticly engineer biotic nodes within human nervous systems without risking eezo exposure. Is this a reasonable possibility? Please comment. 169.204.229.74 23:27, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a reasonable hypothesis. The statement that human biotics are rare comes from Mass Effect: Revelation (if I'm not mistaken), since that time more "accidents" (with or without quotation marks) occurred. There is also a question of how does this effect the second generation of such exposures. Also keep in mind that what appears in-game is not always what the codex or the novels explain (the ME2 weapon system for example). --silverstrike 00:29, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

I, personally, believe that it could just be the humans having discovered a more efficient way of producing biotics outside of the "Accident" method, which is high-risk as it is. After all, a Biotic soldier/warrior possesses significant advantages over a standard Soldier that are indisposable. Not to mention the fact that Biotics make up the elite Spec Ops units of the Asari, Salarians, and the Turians. So, odds are, humanity is finding its own way to counter this.

You're all neglecting to take something called "sample bias" into account. It's flat-out stated that the majority of biotics can only find really good, steady work in the military or to a lesser extent as mercs. What are the majority of human biotics you see? Military or mercs. Or, barring that, you're somewhere that is specifically "a place for biotics", such as the biotic commune. The very nature of the game puts you in situations where the likelihood of running into a biotic is much, much higher than the norm. If you were just some normal guy living an everyday life? Seeing a biotic would be much more rare. You have to figure, over the course of both games, how many humans do you see? Thousands, maybe tens of thousands? And how many humans are there in the galaxy? Tens of billions? This would be like saying that office workers are more common than blue-collar laborers because you work in a high-rise office. As far as Miranda goes? I would bet that she was, indeed, deliberately exposed; as a genetically engineered baby, they could easily have forestalled or removed entirely the typical complications associated with eezo exposure, and ensured that the eezo formed nodules in the nerves the way they wanted them to. Tunoddenrub 23:59, April 21, 2010 (UTC)

Volus biotics
I have seen reference to volus biotics removed about eight hundred times, but the fact is that volus are at least capable of being biotic through artificial means, isnt that at least enough to get a small reference in thisarticle, this article makes it sound like tis impossible for volus to have biotics at all, but they can, just no none drug induced biotics have been seen. ralok 00:09, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well if you consider that Niftu was given drugs to make him biotic, like red snad does to any person who takes it, biotic or not, it really isn't relevant. I like the current version, which I helped work out, where we have no mention of biotics from the volus, hanar, elcor, or vorcha, because we haven't heard anything. If we hear something then it will be changed. However again you have to go back to the fact that Minagen X3 and Red sand can give anyone biotics, including Paul Grayson, who, as far as we know, has no natural biotic ability. In Ascension Kahlee Sanders says on page 89, about halfway down the page that "[h]e's not the first parent of a biotic child to experiment wiht red sand. It's a way for us ordinary people to understand what it's like to be biotic." That shows that anyone can be given biotics with those drugs and therefore it is not noteworthy until we have an actual reference to biotics among those cultures. Lancer1289 02:54, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

But do we know that vorcha, hanar, and elcor will get biotic abilities with red sand? i dont think so, i am saying that it should at least say something along the lines of "It is known that red sand can give biotic abilities to volus" or something abouthow the effects of the drug arent really known for someo of the races, OR SOMETHING, WAIT how did he even take the red sand, he is a volus that in itself in an accomplishment, back on topic though, i think it should be noted somewhere. ralok 07:08, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * However you have to consider that it is artifiical biotic ability, not natural. Red sand and Minagen X3 give biotic ability to anyone whether they have them or not. This article describes natural biotic ability so I don't think that its noteworthy. As to how he took it, he was most likely injected, or something along those lines. Until we have some concrete proof that those 4 cultures have a natural biotic ability, it shouldn't go into the article. Articifial biotics are not noteworthy becasue again they aren't natural and that is what the article is describing. If we had even a news report about a powerful elcor biotic then we could add that, but artifical biotic ability from the two drugs is temporary, so, it shouldn't go into the article. Lancer1289 16:02, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

it has to be noted somewhere, cant it at least be said that volus have only been observed with biotic abilities under the effects of red sand, that wouldnt be so bad would it, plus i think natural is a bit of a misnomer because i think the only race with natural biotics are the asari, everyone else was exposed, and plus it is noted in the article that krogan have artificial biotic, is that even canon btw i havent heard that whats the source on that? ralok 17:14, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yea not sure on the krogan, you might take a look at it. Anyway while yes the asari are the only natural biotics, thanks for the correction by the way, my bad, red sand can give any species, as far as we know, biotic ability. The problem is that is it again something that is temporary. Biotics are permanent ability through natural ability or exposure to element zero in utero. Adding a note to the article saying that a volus had been observed with biotic ability, while under the influence of drugs, and no way to tell if they were a natural biotic, would contradict the article in the sense that biotic ability would seem to be long lasting, which it isn't. It would alos open the door to people adding notes about how it can give abilities to the other three species, which we haven't even seen. The way it is now, which says that we don't know about any ability in those four cultures is because we don't know and adding a note about Niftu would just confuse people. Man this was hard to put into words, I like talking better. Lancer1289 17:33, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

See thats the thing do we know that it works on elcor or hanar, i seriously doubt it works on vorcha (i have a long reason why i dont think it works on them) well then shouldnt it be noted with which species red sand effects, because i dont think it ahs been seen on more than human and volus? this may be more something for the red sand article than something for the biotic article ralok 18:32, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree on the vorcha part, but in reality who knows. As to this, it is probably better in the red sand article than here. Having a something there about which species it can affect, or not, would be a good section to the article becuase currently it is short. I leave it to you to add it since it was your suggestion, unless you want me to, just let me know. Lancer1289 18:39, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

i am notoriously bad at editing articles, somehow everytime i try it comes out looking terrible, so if you did that i would not mind. ralok 18:50, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then it should be up in a few minutes. Lancer1289 18:51, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry took a little longer than expected. I has to word it where hopefully it wouldn't get reverted. I added the part about Niftu under the spoilers section to make sure that doesn't get removed, and I also added a note on the Minagen X3 page as well becaue we really don't know what he was on. Lancer1289 19:13, April 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * What is the source for all those species? i am confused i must have missed something somewhere ralok 19:27, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * The korgan, elcor, quarians, and hanar are the only ones I am unsure about. Turians: they have complete freedom on drugs and I know there is a mention somewhere; Asari: The Eclipse uses it and most of their members are asari; Salarians: use them in gangs, again with the eclipse thing; Humans: self expalnatory; Batarians: Usually if you make a durg then you use it too; Volus: Niftu;
 * On second thought I'll remove the four for now and put then under the rest of the unknowns. Lancer1289 19:34, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

well that was a productive conversation. ralok 19:47, April 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it was. It was nice that we could work this out without any problems that made us both mad, resulted in a massive argument, or an edit war. I like the conversations like this where something gets accomplished without those things. Lancer1289 19:51, April 25, 2010 (UTC)

If only that wastrue. *sigh*, Paladin cross 19:21, May 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, ralok and myself manged to relove this without an argument and without anyone getting mad. Unfortunaly some people just don't read talk pages before making edits. I added some imbedded text and hopefully it will stop it, unfortunatly like on the Kasumi page, I don't think it will. One can hope however. Lancer1289 19:25, May 10, 2010 (UTC)