Talk:Commander Shepard/Archive2

Shepard as a biotic
Since you can get a few biotic powers as a non-biotic class, does that mean Shepard is always a biotic regardless of his class?
 * It's most likely he WAS exposed to Eezo in-utero. Just because he was exposed doesn't mean he has to utilize it, and without a Bio-Amp, you'd never really see anything from a Human biotic. --96.54.228.29 19:59, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, since you can take any available skill you like regardless of what your own class is, I class it as just being one of those gameplay things. Personally I prefer to take skills which are "in line" with the Shepard I'm playing as, but I know a lot of people wouldn't. A friend played ME1 as a Soldier with Barrier, purely so they could take more damage.
 * However, it seems very unlikely that an untrained soldier without a bioamp could chuck around nasty mass effect fields as well as- for example- Jacob. (Unloyal Jacob only has one biotic power, and generally speaking, recharge times are WAY higher for teammates than for Shep.) So that would put Shep as potentially having more biotic power than Jacob- who is biotically trained, and has an amp. (Or so we assume, which seems to be realistic considering the other biotic teammates.)
 * So, my personal take is that people who want to have a none-biotic class with a biotic talent are making a highly unlikely (if not impossible) character- but if they're more interested in gameplay and combat than roleplay and story, then that's their call.
 * 86.24.177.168 11:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)Ren
 * 86.24.177.168 11:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)Ren

Limping?
When you walk slowly in ME2 do you notice that Shepard walks with a limp?Just a question?
 * The new walking animation is totally wonky. It's like the only thing that is worse in the sequel than it was in ME1. Matt 2108 23:34, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well it looked like he was limping due to the Destruction of the Normandy.

he might be limping in the destruction because his ship is being blown up at the time? or he got injured of screen? Sonic0chick0ames 22:23, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed. When you slow Shepard's movement to a walking pace, he definately favors one side in a movement typical of someone with a leg injury. It might be due to an error in his reconstruction, or the fact that he wasn't completely reconstructed upon him waking up -- much like the scars he starts out with. MerrellJ 12:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

"conspiracy theory brewing" Maybe it is a subtle indicator that we are going to play as Joker in the next game if Shepard died(any other replacement? Old Captain Anderson?), and it will be a space combat game where you pilot the Normandy SR-3(cruiser this time? or a frigate-cruiser?) against the Reapers and if Shepard did not die then we play a normal RPG......uh maybe not, it's probably just Shepard breaking his leg somewhere along the way(falling down) and not getting treatment for a while, he is still fast when he needs to be CsAtlantis 04:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC) 0441, February 11, 2010 (GMT)


 * That SR-3, space combat game concept sounds awful!! :P I thought that I was the first to notice the limp... :/ oh well. I doubt the developers would let something like that slide by, although there was the lack of weapons on the SR-1 in ME... I digress. I think it's just an injury that hadn't had time to heal, like the scars. --Effectofthemassvariety 06:55, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, SR-2's still there, and she's quite a good ship. Secondly, this is a crazy idea hinted by some changes from ME 1: a mission as Joker, Normandy's weapon and armor upgrades... At this rate, we'll have a mix of flight sim/RPG/TPS at around what, ME 10? Some space combat scenes wouldn't have hurt, with Shepard giving general orders - like he did during the Battle of Citadel.95.165.199.42 15:55, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

You guys are ignoring the fact that Shepard doesn't limp whatsoever in any cutscenes. It has to be some weird dev oversight. Matt 2108 07:26, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

I actually took a look at some of the cutscenes, and in Thane's loyalty mission he very noticiably limps just as he is about to interrogate that man. I forget his name.MEffect Fan 03:33, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Facial Scarring
How do the scars influence charm/intimidate options during the game. Do we know about the mechanics? Is this even a fact? L3zl13 08:02, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Facial scars are influenced by your Paragon/Renegade scores, and whether or not you got facial reconstruction. Facial scars don't influence Charm/Intimidate at all. --96.54.228.29 03:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Updating Images?
Probably no need, but I thought I'd throw this out here - if someone has the time, would it be a good idea to update the two images at the top of the page with ones from ME2? The Default Male face is mostly unchanged apart for the graphical update, but the hair of the Default Female looks different in ME2. As I said - it's not neccesary, but perhaps something for someone to do if they have the time, just to keep the page fresh.
 * Yes and no. It would be something that might be nice to have done, but it wouldn't be to replace the images at the top of the page. If either of the defaults look different in ME2, the new version pics need to be placed in the ME2 section, not at the top of the page. SpartHawg948 13:54, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Assumed ME1 actions for new ME2 players?
Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere. I couldn't find it. This question pertains to the fact that, if you don't import a save from ME1, ME2 assumes your character did the following in ME1:
 * Let the council die
 * Sacrificed Wrex
 * Did not pursue a romantic relationship with anyone
 * There may be other assumptions built in as well that I'm not aware of

I remember reading in a pre-release forum thread that new ME2 players were supposed to be able to decide how these events unfolded through the questioning that takes place with Miranda and Jacob on the shuttle way to Freedom's Progress. This is false, you cannot choose what happened, you can only comment on how the game's predetermined actions made you feel.

Now, at the same time, it seems like the game should be different for people who played through ME1 and made different choices. If that's true, then why does the game make those assumptions for new ME2 players rather than provide them away to decide about ME1 romances, who (if anyone) died, what happened to the Council, etc.?

So, the question: Is there any way for new ME2 characters to change the predetermined assumptions the game makes about what your toon did in ME1? Servius 23:19, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. Play ME 1 and import the save game. Since anyone who didn't play ME 1 won't have any connection to the outcomes, what is the point of allowing new players to choose this, since they wouldn't know wtf it meant anyway? Apart from not seeing a character you didn't see before, what difference does it make to the game? I'm sure that someone will come up with an editor to change these settings, (for the PC at least). I've played through with import and without, and there is no real difference that I can discern, (EXCEPT - the game is easier if you import since you get a fair amount of startup resources and cash).


 * So then the answer is actually no, since I was looking for a way for people who don't have an ME1 file to import. If there's no difference then it's a moot point. I just thought your decision regarding the council might have changed what you could do at the Presidium. Your decision about Wrex might could have affected Grunt's loyalty mission. If those are just aesthetic changes (like how a ME1 relationship just means there's a photo in the frame on your desk) then it's no big deal. Servius 02:50, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can download a ME1 save file from various places... I'm sure there are options for all possible outcomes.

While there are no large gameplay changes in ME2 due to your previous actions, I suspect that they will affect ME3 extensively. Given the situation at the end of ME2, Shepard is going to need all the allies he can get, and I think in this respect your actions across both previous games will come into play. Bronzey 08:56, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Dossier?
I know this page needs to be a tad abnormal due to the variabilities, but the focus on this page has so far been on the impact of various choices on Shepherd's Dossier with next-to-no focus on some key common elements of Shepherd's background. Of note:
 * Graduated from N7
 * First human Spectre
 * Missions on Eden Prime (retrieval of beacon, saving of the economy), hunting Saren (including notable subset of Noveria with the Rachni Queen and killing Matriarch Benezia, Feros with saving the colony from both Geth and the Thorian, Virmire with blowing up the Krogan lab and encountering Sovereign and Ilos including being the first to discover the Mu Relay and set foot on Ilos and meeting with the VI's who name escapes me. I'd actually leave off or minimize Therum since its relevance wasn't significant to a general biography)
 * Battle of the Citadel (including the decision re: Council)
 * Death, revival by Cerberus, operations on Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the Collector Ship, the derelict Reaper and the Omega 4 Relay. Possible side notes about certain activities with notable impact such as the quarantine zone and the prison ship. The others I'd say are even more optional and probably could be minimized.
 * (When applicable) The Council's own opinion on Shepherd in ME2, particularly towards the Reapers (I believe the Turian used the word "delusional")

In general, it would have a similar look to a plot overview of the individual games, but with more general focus on Shepherd the character and his/her impact on the Galaxy rather than the player and the elements that are meaningful to the plot of the game.... if that makes any sense.

--forgottenlord 18:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Achievements
Do you think we could put up an achievement section for all that Shepard accomplished?


 * First sign your posts and there is already an Achievements page that contains all the achievements in the game. There is no need for an achievements page here. Lancer1289 21:55 March 15, 2010 (UTC)

No, I mean like he/she accomplished in the game(e.g. Stopping Saren and the Geth from taking over the Citidal). MEffect Fan 22:08, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's all pretty well covered elsewhere, and it also gets into gray areas. Sure there are some things that happen regardless (ie stopping Saren and saving the Citadel) but there are a lot more things where there isn't a definite outcome, as there are multiple options, and then it becomes a canon issue. And even things Shepard does do, like stopping Saren, have variables. For example, how did Shepard stop Saren? B/c even there, there are options. You can either fight Saren in the Council chamber, or convince him to shoot himself in the head. So no, I think the canonicity issues would preclude any achievements section. SpartHawg948 00:43, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Change the quote
It might be too humorous, but I think I'm not alone in thinking that the quote should be: "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store on the Citadel"
 * What relevance does that quote have to anything? SpartHawg948 21:35, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * His humor, maybe? Captain Pakundo 09:16, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... and the current ME2 quote doesn't demonstrate that? SpartHawg948 17:29, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Default John Shepard vs Custom
Is there any gameplay difference in the Default Shepard than in a Custom or Quick-start (when you choose to put ur own identity). I'm a little confused. (Talking of ME1 ofc)

--Anon 17:19, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

No, not at all. The custom and default have no gameplay diffs. MEffect Fan 23:40, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard on Earth
I seem to recall something about Shepard having gone to Earth at least once after enlisting with the Alliance as one of the two non-Earthborn pre-service histories. Does anyone know the specific quote in which this was said (and when it was said)? 85.147.165.48 02:26, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't recall anything of that nature coming up in conversations. SpartHawg948 03:07, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) After checking this I was checking this, and I can't find anything like this. The only mention of Earth really is in the Earthborn background. There is no mention in the Spacer and Colonist background. So no there is no mention. Lancer1289 03:10, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure there was something like it. Looks like I'll have to replay some parts... 85.147.165.48 03:42, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can find it then just let us know, because that would be interesting. Again I didn't, though I only went though about 35 saved games, at certain points, and spent about 45 minutes so I probably missed something. If you find it, then post a video and link it so we can see it. Lancer1289 03:44, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

God, I dunno where exactly to look. My guts say it was somewhere on the Dark Star-level of the Zakera Ward, but that doesn't make any sense since there's nothing there. A conversation with Miri or Jacob would make more sense, but everyone would know about it if it was one of those. Then again, I'm not really sure on it being Earth that was mentioned and not Jump Zero or Arcturus... I really need to start paying attention. Oh well, let's leave this one open incase I or someone else comes across the quote I could have been referring too. 85.147.165.48 06:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I've been asking around on the BioWare forums and it turns out I sent you guys looking in the wrong direction: remember in Mass Effect, after either becoming a Spectre or completing one planet, you can have a conversation with Ashley. In this conversation you can find out that both Shepard and Ash once had "Gunny" Ellison as a drill instructor, at Macapá Boot Camp - on Earth. As Udina would say: "You wanted proof? There it is!" 85.147.165.48 04:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have to point out, though, that there really isn't any indication that this Macapá is the one in Brazil, and not one on another planet. People do, after all, have a tendency to name things like settlements or military installations after other things, like settlements that already exist. It's likely the one on Earth, but unless they say specifically that it's on Earth (which they might, my memory is a little fuzzy), we can't just assume it is. SpartHawg948 05:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

True enough, though it might be worth noting that Ashley's article says "Following her family tradition, Ashley enlisted in the Alliance Marines after high school and was assigned to the Recruit Training Depot in Macapá, Brazil." 85.147.165.48 05:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... that may have to get fixed then. If there's no source for Brazil, then it's speculation. SpartHawg948 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Looked at the revision history of Ashley's article, turns out it has been there from the beginning, along with that personnel file that disappeared on March 28th. Her talk page has a comment, apparently from the one who made that edit, that says since it looked out of place but still was official info, he added everything that was in the personnel file to the article itself. So, to confirm my suspicions, as the personnel file looked somewhat familiar, I went to the original Mass Effect site and came across this: http://masseffect.com/me1/galacticcodex/ashley_part1.html 85.147.165.48 06:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That looks pretty convincing to me.--Effectofthemassvariety 06:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Roger that! I officially stand corrected! :) SpartHawg948 07:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her personnel file didn't go "missing"; I rewrote the official Bioware information so her article is concise and has continuous train-of-thought. So yeah, the Macapa Boot Camp is indeed in Brazil. Perhaps add a source linking it to the galactic codex to clarify. Teugene 10:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Woah, didn't expect you to show up here. In any case, that's what I said, sort of. So... I'll leave the task of actually implementing this into the article to you guys, because I'm lazy and unsure as to how would bethe best way. Cheers! 85.147.165.48 21:46, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see a problem after replaying the game and doing that conversation, Shepard and Ashley only had Gunny Ellison in common and we don't know where Shepard trained. Ellison we only know has been on Titan, Saturn's moon, so I see adding it to Ashley's article, but we have no concrete information that Shepard on Earth for training. For all we know it was Mars. Lancer1289 21:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, while it's interesting, I don't really see a way to work it in. After all, we don't go into detail on any of the backgrounds and service histories, as Shepard is pretty much a blank slate for players to do with as they see fit. The only way we could work this info in is if we also added all the similar details of the other backgrounds and service histories. SpartHawg948 21:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I guess Shepard not deconfirming (nor confirming) that after Ashley asking if he/she went to Macapa boot camp as well, followed by saying that Gunny Ellison's still kicking ass down there could be taken either way. To me, it seems like a confirmation. Oh well, seems like I can't officially add anything unless I have a dev on my side... 85.147.165.48 04:42, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Surgery for scarring
I'm going to check this out myself, but I thought that you recieve the email about the scars, from Dr. Chakwas, only after you recruit Mordin. It seems to make sense that you would only recieve such an email when you can actually do something about the scars. I could be wrong. Like I said, I'll check it out, but if anyone else knows about the timing, please say so. --Effectofthemassvariety 04:44, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

It always came across to me as if you wouldn't get that certain mail until your Renegade bar reached a certain point, I always assumed one "20% mark" mark higher than your Paragon bar... I do have a have somewhere in the Omega Slums, so I'll go and check out if I get the mail afterwards. 85.147.165.48 04:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I got a game that's at the beginning of Mordin's mission, so I'll play it through, and see if it happens to me. Then, if it happens to both of us, then we'll know.

Finished the mission, got the mail. Seems like you were right. 85.147.165.48 05:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I received it too. Don't you just love detective work? I mean, if you could call it that. :P --Effectofthemassvariety 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I guess there's nothing quite like it. ^^ 85.147.165.48 06:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated question, if you undergo the surgery, will Shepard's eyes continue to glow red or will the glow go away like the scars?Betrayer...In Truth, It was I who was Betrayed... 10:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The glow will go away. Understand, the surgery is just a short-cut to looking normal. It will make you look completly paragon, even when you're renegade. --Effectofthemassvariety 18:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Just before using the Omega-4 Relay, I did the upgrade and had the surgery. In the Squad menu, my female Shepard's face did appear clear. However, upon initiating the Omega-4 jump, in the shower scene prior to the romance culmination, she clearly had nasty glowing facial scars on her cheek. When she got out of the shower her face was clear again. Glitch? LeonKowalski 17:57, August 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Not sure if that's a glitch, for that part it always shows a little bit of scarring even if Shepard's face is clear (or completely renegade-scarred). Don't know why Bioware didn't make it so the right amount of scarring shows, hmm...maybe they got lazy? :| PikaShepard 18:11, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard and Cerberus
Does anybody else think that with the Survivor backstory and a completed quest when you track down that Cerberus base and find your friend and find out that the tresher maw attack that killed your unit was set up by Cerberus, Sheppard should be much much more unhappy to be working with Cerberus? It just bugs me a bit 86.18.187.100 10:36, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

No the backstories do not affect the the current games, and I am sure Shepard's encounter as a survivor was just concidence.MEffect Fan 14:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

What I meant was the mission where you meet Toombs, http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Dead_Scientists, clearly we're meant to think that Cerberus is responsible for Shepard's squad being killed on Akuze, yet he never mentions it. It really bugs me when I play MS2 as a Sole Survivor. 86.18.187.100 01:04, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

A weak article. Please read.
Considering the fact that Commander Shepard is THE main character of the Mass Effect series, I have to say that this is a pretty weak article and doesn't do the character much justice. I will give it that it does a good job of explaining the ins and outs of Shepard's personality, based on any given psychological profile, but in terms of how he is affecting the story there seems to be very little. While I understand that the Mass Effect games have so many ways of ending it would be difficult to follow a directly canonical path, there are still ways of making this article more robust.

For example, if you start a new playthrough on Mass Effect 2, without having imported either a ME1 or ME2 character, then you'll find that the default Shepard Bioware has supplied has the Earthborn/Sole Survivor history and psychological profile, and who put Udina on the council, and who, I think, eliminated the council at the end of the first game. You can also bet that when Mass Effect 3 comes out there will be a similar set-up, in that you can begin a default character, without having played the first two games, and Bioware will have already pre-determined a path for the game to take. Following these default characters, you could effectively set up a canonical route for this article and the overarching story of Mass Effect.

If you want a more direct example of how the article could be improved, just look at the bit on Mass Effect 2: it starts out well, talking about what happened to the commander, and how Cerberus rebuilt him, but then it just ends with Shepard investigating the Collectors. Well, we all know he kills the Collectors, one way or another, and since Bioware SAID you can't continue a ME2 Shepard into Mass Effect 3, if he died, I think it's safe to assume he survived the suicide mission. There's not even anything on how he killed Sovereign at the end of Mass Effect 1, which seems to be a pretty key plot point to me. I also feel that, given his Renegade nature, as determined by Bioware's default settings in both ME1 and ME2, we could even go so far as to say he saved the Collector Base at the end of the second game, as that does represent the Renegade choice.

Something else I noticed about this article is that it's very careful not to say, explicitly, that a MALE Commander Shepard did this, or a FEMALE Commander Shepard did that. We need to choose one gender and stick with it, and call it sexist if you want, it should be the male character. Afterall, the male character is always used in the promotional art, and whenever you hear Bioware talk about Shepard they always use pronouns like he and him. Of course, we should still include information about how you can play as a female character, and what this does to the story here and there, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

In fact, we could break this article down such that there are multiple sections: you could have one overall section for a male Shepard, which breaks down even further to discuss how each psychological profile and history affects the game, and we could do this for both genders. Or, we could talk strictly from the perspective of making Renegade and Paragon decisions throughout the game, which might be more logical as the games only follow one or the other, or we could go with what I said originally about following a more canonical path, which frankly wouldn't be as interesting as some of the options we have. And we have A LOT of options.

The point is, this article can be much better than what it is, we just have to explore new ways of representing Shepard's character and story.

(Oh yeah, I can feel the hate mail coming my way already.)
 * The "canonal", if you insist on calling it that, Shepard provided in ME2 is for those who havn't played ME, and by no means should we use that as canon. We keep this article like this, because until BioWare sets canon, the Mass Effect universe doesn't have one. Just because the male Shepard is used in the promotional art, doesn't mean that we should start saying he in every article. Because of the way BioWare set up the game, Shepard is non-gender specific for specific reason is that everybody can make their own story with the Commander. Breaking up the article into seperate setions for ecah and avery combination of phychological profile and backgound would make this article too long. You are basically asking us to set canon, which isn't our job here, that's BioWare's. Our job here is to catalogue the universe and provide a reference to players and fans of ME. We don't set canon and again that is what you are asking us to do. BioWare made the game so people could personalize their own Shepard(s), if multiple playthoughs, and that is how we keep it here. Yes we know that you can't continue into ME3 with a dead Shepard, but mentioning it is in line with what we do here. We don't set canon and until BioWare does, we keep things as is. Basically, there is no canon until something official from BioWare, see our style guide, for more on what we do and don't do. If you don't like it, then leave. Lancer1289 17:28, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Just becuase a developer provides a default character, which is common in most games that you can customize characters in, doesn't mean that is canon. Some people don't like to customize, or don't want to take the time to do so. So this article is kept like it is, again, because it is BioWare's job to set what gender, background, profile, and appearance, of a canon Shepard. Until they do, and ads and promotional art don't count, we don't set it here either. The game has many possible outcomes, as you stated, and setting a "canon" Shepard would be bias on our part, and BioWare didn't set one. They did that to give each player the opportunity to experience something different each time around. So fixing the article to your "canon" standards is out of the question until we have a canon to go on, which we DON'T Lancer1289 17:35, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Just a quick question- why do we need to pick one gender of Shepard and stick with it? Because you want it to happen? Even BioWare has refused to do that! Drew Karpyshyn (the head writer for the series as well as the author of the novels) has stated that at no point in the novels will Shepard appear or be referenced to by gender because it's up to each and every individual to come up with their own canonical Shepard, and BioWare doesn't want to interfere with that. People from BioWare use pronouns like he and him out of convenience, but when the issue of Shepard's canonical gender is brought up, it's a different matter entirely. And remember, they also referred to Legion as 'he' in interviews. As BioWare doesn't want to arbitrarily impose notions of canon, I don't see why we should be so quick to either.

The long and short of it is this- unlike previous BioWare games like KOTOR (and the non-BioWare sequal, KOTOR II), they haven't come out with a 'canonical' version of events (i.e. Revan was a male, he did this, this, and this, in this order, and was light-side. THe Exile was a female, and did this, this, and this, in this order, and chose to do this at the end). Given that they have not established canon, we can't just make it up or 'assume' anything. After all, when dealing with this stuff, there are no safe assumptions, just assumptions, aka speculation. I get what you're saying, it's just not right or practical to arbitrarily impose your own impressions of what the canon Shepard should be (in actions or gender) on others when BioWare has thus far left it purposely ambiguous. SpartHawg948 19:45, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * And this is why I really don't leaving long responces, someone always comes along and says everything better than I do. I completely agree Spart. Lancer1289 19:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Called it.
Well, I called it right on the hate mail! Hey Lancer, next time you write a message, check your spelling please. It's late and I'm tired so I'll keep this brief:

I strongly suggested canon but I made a variety of other recommendations as well, many of which simply consist of telling the story of Commander Shepard through varying degrees. Also, I never said I WANTED Shepard to be male, but if we ever followed a canonical route then it would seem to make sense at this point in time. Another thing, I never said anything about just hopping on Mass Effect wiki and writing a whole bunch of stuff about Shepard doing this and that without doing some serious follow-up, especially with Bioware. Once again these are suggestions, don't take them so personally.

The one thing I truly picked out of these comments was the one stating that you wouldn't want to talk about all the different ways Shepard's character could evolve because it would make the article too long. There is some truth to this, and I could see why it would be kinda awkward reading about Shepard's character here, and what he/SHE did, and then read it all over again from a different psychological profile. However, I've been to quite a few wikis and read a fair amount of articles, and I could tell you that even if we did incorporate all those things this article would still be dwarfed in comparison to others. Simply put: just because it would make the article long, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Let me just say one more time, for all who presume otherwise, that I SUGGESTED following some form of canon, and varying ways in which we could do this. Never did I say we should "arbitrarily impose notions of canon."

I stand by my opinion: this is a weak article.
 * I'd hardly call the responses to your prior message "hate mail". At no point did either of the respondents show an extreme or visceral dislike for you, which rules out hate, and they were posts left on a talk page, so that rules out mail. There were messages left in response to your post that disagreed with you, but that's hardly "hate mail".


 * Again, going back to your points about canon, i.e. "Also, I never said I WANTED Shepard to be male, but if we ever followed a canonical route then it would seem to make sense at this point in time", it would make sense if there was a canonical route, but as I pointed out in my (apparently) hate-filled missive, there is no canonical route, and BioWare has taken great pains to stress this. Some off-hand references to Shepard as he in interviews and the fact that the default male Shepard is used in advertising hardly outweighs the head writer for the series stating repeatedly that Shepard's gender will not be set by BioWare canonically in order to allow players to set their own canon.


 * Finally, let mke stress that by SUGGESTING that the site follow "some form of canon" where no canon exists, you are indeed attempting to arbitrarily impose notions of canon. After all, we can't follow non-existent canon, so what canon were you hoping we would follow? I'm trying to sound you out for ideas and trying to see your point of view while getting mine across, and it would be easier to do so without having responses dismissed out of hand as "hate mail". SpartHawg948 10:34, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah the ever present, since you can't spell then your argument is invalid. Both Spart and myself have scene this before where someone who doesn't like a response, picks apart errors that come with fast typing to "strengthen" their argument. As to canon, what you are asking, in no uncertain terms, is for us to impose your canon on this article, and by extension, the whole wiki. As Spart has already states, BioWare has taken great pains to not impose canon on Shepard, and using the default profile as "canon", is still a violation of canon. Because there isn't any canon. You also point out other wikis have more info on their main characters, well that is because they have an established canon, to which Mass Effect doesn't. Those articles on other wikis can go into a lot more detail here because they have that established canon, and we keep the article like it is to avoid canon related issues. All of your suggestions were to make the article say Shepard is this, with this background, with this psych profile, did these things, etc., and you base it all off the default profiles, which are provided for those who do not want to customize their characters, or who didn't buy ME and just got into the series. You are trying to set canon where none exists, if you want canon then take your own advice and contact BioWare or Drew Karpyshyn and ask them to set canon for you. We aren't going to set canon here, and that is exactly what you asked us to do. Lancer1289 18:39, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I refuse to continue reading your comments if I am going to continuously be met with the charge that I am trying to "impose notions of canon." That is nonsense, and the whole point behind the word SUGGESTION, Sparthawg, is that you are not IMPOSING anything. I read both your comments, and they both said essentially the same thing; that I am trying to set canon where there is none. As for you Lancer, your argument is perfectly valid, but the constant misspelling represents the manner in which you choose to represent yourself. It detracts from your argument entirely when someone is having a difficult time even reading what you are trying to say. Now, you two are still choosing to focus on what I said about canon. If you don't like it, that's fine. Once again I never said we absolutely need to do this because it would be great and it's the only way we can go. And as you two have pointed out excessively, Bioware does not wish to follow any sort of canon, which is fine and it makes sense to me, just as much as actually following any sort of canon would have made sense to me. But besides the canon route I've talked about, I have also suggested (oh there it is again, SUGGESTED) various ways we could add to this article, many of which I don't think would upset Bioware too much, if at all. People show videos on Youtube all the time about all the things that could happen to the commander, I don't understand why we can't write about it. I don't understand why we can't have a section saying, "if you don't do enough things here, then the commander will die in the suicide mission." Finally, Sparthawg, because your little comment about me "imposing notions of canon" bothers that much, I think you should know that if I wanted to actually impose these notions I would have just bypassed the talk page altogether and started writing whatever I wanted on the article.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.
 * I refuse to continue reading your comments if I am going to continuously be met with the charge that I am trying to "impose notions of canon." That is nonsense, and the whole point behind the word SUGGESTION, Sparthawg, is that you are not IMPOSING anything. I read both your comments, and they both said essentially the same thing; that I am trying to set canon where there is none. As for you Lancer, your argument is perfectly valid, but the constant misspelling represents the manner in which you choose to represent yourself. It detracts from your argument entirely when someone is having a difficult time even reading what you are trying to say. Now, you two are still choosing to focus on what I said about canon. If you don't like it, that's fine. Once again I never said we absolutely need to do this because it would be great and it's the only way we can go. And as you two have pointed out excessively, Bioware does not wish to follow any sort of canon, which is fine and it makes sense to me, just as much as actually following any sort of canon would have made sense to me. But besides the canon route I've talked about, I have also suggested (oh there it is again, SUGGESTED) various ways we could add to this article, many of which I don't think would upset Bioware too much, if at all. People show videos on Youtube all the time about all the things that could happen to the commander, I don't understand why we can't write about it. I don't understand why we can't have a section saying, "if you don't do enough things here, then the commander will die in the suicide mission." Finally, Sparthawg, because your little comment about me "imposing notions of canon" bothers that much, I think you should know that if I wanted to actually impose these notions I would have just bypassed the talk page altogether and started writing whatever I wanted on the article.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.


 * Do the article justice people.

We're trying to do the article justice by presenting it as BioWare has presented it. BioWare has taken great pains to not set Shepard as either male or female, or to pick one of the backgrounds as canon. Again, you are suggesting that the article refer to Shepard as either male or female. These are your words. "We need to choose one gender and stick with it". This is the very definition of arbitrarily imposing canon where none exists. You can attempt to say it isn't by saying it was just a suggestion, but the suggestion was to arbitrarily fix Shepard's gender when BioWare has steadfastly refused to do so. So yes, your suggestion was to impose this notion on the article. SpartHawg948 23:49, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah except for the part where we haven't chosen one gender and stuck with it, which clearly shows I haven't imposed anything. I think you need to change your wording because impose is a strong word here. If I was "imposing" such a thing then, like I said, I would have just written down without waiting for you approval, or that of the community. Also, you are once again choosing to focus on what I said about canon. To me, that whole topic is now irrelevant at this point because you've told me for the 4th or 5th time now that Bioware doesn't want to set canon. I GET IT NOW. And yes I said we need to pick a gender and stick with it, but that was in light of me wanting to set canon. Now that I am painfully aware that Bioware doesn't want to set canon, it kinda makes setting a gender irrelevant, too, now doesn't it? Sparthawg I am not imposing anything. I made suggestions, strong ones to be sure, but I never set an ultimatum or forced anybody to do anything.

I hope you step away from this one-set mind track against me, and at least consider some of the other recommendations I made. You know, the ones that don't say anything about canon. Also, if you're just going to write back to me about how I am imposing canon don't write at all, because I am getting a little bit tired of hearing it.
 * "To establish or apply as compulsory". That is the definition of impose. That is why I used the word impose. Because arbitrarily selecting one gender or the other (which is what you recommended. You didn't specify one or the other, but again, you said "We need to choose one gender and stick with it") and then applying it as standard across the article would be imposing this standard on the article. You recommended selecting a gender and then implementing that throughout the article. This would be, per the definition of the word impose, imposing a standard on the article which BioWare has not established. I did not choose the word impose (or any of its derivatives) to make you out to be a bad guy, or to come across as hostile. I chose it because it was the word that means what I wanted to say. As you said yourself, you were "wanting to set canon", which would (again, using the dictionary definition) be imposing canon, as it would be applying your desired standard as compulsory throughout the article. Please stop thinking of this in terms of me vs you. Again, my words were not chosen to belittle or demean you, or to aggravate you or make you seem like the bad guy. I chose the word that had the meaning I intended to convey. It's as simple as that. SpartHawg948 02:23, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sparthawg NO. Just no. To everything. This argument has long since been over. You are so far past actually listening to me that frankly I am a little more than amazed I'm still here trying to make you understand. This is a weak article, and could be vastly improved. Good luck improving it.
 * Sparthawg NO. Just no. To everything. This argument has long since been over. You are so far past actually listening to me that frankly I am a little more than amazed I'm still here trying to make you understand. This is a weak article, and could be vastly improved. Good luck improving it.

Who is so far past actually listening to whom here? I addressed your concerns and attempted to reassure you that I meant nothing personal, that I was just attempting to convey my opinion as best I could in response to yours in the hope that we could have a civil discourse. To which you respond "No. Just no." Who is it who is refusing to listen? You haven't even been able to get my username right, yet you harp on others about spelling. You go on and on about how people are twisting or misinterpreting your words, but then when an explanation is forthcoming you refuse to even acknowledge it. You dismiss the comments of others as hate mail, thereby tainting any comments they make in the future in a classic example of poisoning the well. You attempt to stifle further comment by stating repeatedly that the conversation is over because you say so. Have a modicum of civility, please. It'll work wonders for you. SpartHawg948 03:21, June 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll offer some improvements for you, since you're SO obsessed with CANON (on a side note, don't play World of Warcraft... Blizzard Entertainment is notorious for retcons).. Anyways... Here you go:




 * The topic header can be something that fits... Like... "Canon Shepherd".
 * The actual canon Commander Shepherd in the official canon lore is a varied person. The canon gender actually varies... Some are dudes, some are chicks, some are butt ugly hideous (don't tell me you haven't see any insanely ugly Shepherds in your time... The magic you can work with the face editor can produce some pretty crazy things). Some canon Shepherds were born on Earth, some were born in colonies, and other canon Shepherds lived their life following his or her parents from one military assignment to another. In the canon, Shepherd did some amazing thing, that differs all over the place. Some canon Shepherds blew up a lot of Batarian pirates saving the colony of Elysium. Other Canon Shepherds survived a vicious thresher maw attack, while some canon Shepherds blew up some other Batarian pirates at the sacrifice of 3/4 said canon Shepherd's squad. Later, all canon Shepherds rose to the rank of Lieutenant Commander and became the XO of the SSV Normandy and were placed under the tutelage of Nihlus Kryik, a turian Specter who was assigned to assess the canon Shepherds' worth as a Specter. Unfortunately, this poor sap was offed by Saren Arterius, who would become the arch nemesis of every canon Shepherd in existence for the duration of the first game. On Eden Prime, one of the teammates of the canon Shepherds, one Corporal Jenkins might as well of been wearing a red shirt when he got mowed down by geth drones. Later, all of the canon Shepherds met some chick named Ashley. After finding some beacon on Eden Prime, one of the canon Shepherds' squadmates, either Ashely or Kaiden started fidgeting with the Prothean beacon. The one that did so was whichever one was the opposite gender of canon Shepherd (Kaiden fidgeted with it if canon Shepherd is a chick and Ashley fidgeted with it if canon Shepherd is a dude.) Canon Shepherd then pulled said squad mate away and then began hallucinating because of the Prothean beacon. This teammate then began to develop the hots for canon Shepherd. Some canon Shepherds pursued this relation, others didn't.
 * Later canon Shepherd went to the Citadel and did some stuff. Some chose to kill a crook named Fist, some chose to sleep with some crazy asari chick, some accepted the help of a bad ass turian named Garrus and some didn't (why would you EVER do such a thing?!), in the end all of the canon Shepherds became the first Human Specter.
 * After that, the canon Shepherds did different things. Some went to Faros. Others went to Noveria. Some went and got an Asari babe named Liara to join his or her squad. Canon shepherd actually did all of these things, but in different order. Some saved a human colony from an asteroid hijacked by Batarian terrorists. Some even gave the vicious rachni a second chance at life!
 * Eventually, canon Shepherd went to Virmire, but each did a different thing. Some killed their Krogan teammate, Wrex (why would you even consider doing such a thing?!). All canon shepherds then had to make a choice: either leave the chick Ashley to die, or the dude Kaiden to die. Some canon Shepherds left the chick, other canon Shepherds left the dude.
 * Later, the arch nemesis guy Saren attacked the citadel. The canon Shepherds were left with another choice: some sacrificed part of the Alliance fleet to save the Citadel Council, other canon Shepherds had the Alliance fleet wait to take out Sovereign, the evil machine thing bent on killing everyone in the galaxy, sacrificing the Citadel Council. When facing down Saren, some canon Shepherds managed to talk enough sense into him to cause him to commit suicide, making Sovereign's life a little harder. Others had to fight him.
 * After this, the canon Shepherds that saved the council had to choose somebody to sit on the council and represent humanity. The canon Shepherds that didn't save the council appointed someone to either lead an all-human council (if the canon Shepherds in question were renegade), or to lead a multi-racial council (if the canon Shepherds in question were paragon).
 * Later, all canon Shepherds got blown up by a collector ship.




 * There... You now have an excellent start to a section on the CANON SHEPHERD. I'll let you fill in any blanks and do the ME2 part.
 * In all seriousness, what the HELL is your obsession with CANON? The character import feature lets you make your own canon! In Neverwinter Nights 2, you're given the option to backstab your entire group and slaughter them all in the name of the King of Shadows, the big bad guy, provided your character's alignment is Evil. But guess what? When you play Mask of the Betrayer, the game's first expansion, it ASSUMES that you kill the King of Shadows, even if you continue playing with the same character that joined the big bad guy, which is kind of awkward. Let me draw an analogy to Mass Effect for you: I save the Citadel Council, I let the Rachni queen go, and I spare Urdnot Wrex on Virmire. When I bring said Commander Shepherd into Mass Effect 2, because canon MUST be satisfied, the Citadel Council died in Saren's attack, I was an asshole and killed the Rachni queen, and I shot Wrex on Virmire. Alright... Yay canon. Now, why the hell did I play ME1 again? To hell with official canon! We'll carve our own, just like Bioware intended! Tanooki1432 19:17, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Expanding on that point, I also want to point out that John Shepard (or Jane Shepard) is not "canon" Shepard. He is the default Shepard and is meant to allow players to jump right into the game without spending the time to customize their character.  I'm sure there were a lot of FPS/TPS gamers who picked up ME2 this time, and those kinds of gamers typically don't want to spend the time to personalize their characters.  They just want to jump in and play the game for the action and not worry to much about the RPG aspects.  &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 12:55, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

In my experience, video games are never canon. Star Wars and Star Trek video games spring immediately to mind, as movies and TV shows are their only sources of canon. Ed Greenwood mentions that for AD&D's Forgotten Realms, only printed products are canon (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Realms_Wiki:Canon). As something of a n00b to this wiki, I don't know what the developers or producers of ME have said, but I'd shy away from trying to include anything more than absolutely necessary under the "canon" umbrella. PhoenixBlue 19:42, June 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Free-standing video game series tend to carve their own Canon as they run. Starcraft and Warcraft are two examples that I can think of: two individual IPs (Intellectual Properties) owned by a single company (Blizzard Entertainment). As Blizzard makes new games in those IPs and the IP's individual universe, "canon" is established: Sarah Kerrigan is a royal b**** and the current big bad guy of the series. Arthas is an evil bastard and players kill him. Lore and canon are established stating that he has been killed by adventurers (players). When it comes to video games of IPs that didn't originally start out as video games (again, Star Wars and Star Trek for example), whether or not the game is considered "canon" depends entirely on the original owner to the rights. I believe that in the case of Star Trek for example, video games are NOT considered "canon". Sometimes, if something is considered "canon" or not can vary. For example, in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, the Blood Ravens Space Marine chapter is considered a "canon" Space Marines chapter. The chapter originated from a book, but got its fame in a video game (Dawn of War). I don't know how "canon" something like the Neverwinter Nights games are, but I think the designers could do just about anything they wanted to as long as they didn't drastically change the existing lore or "canon" of Forgotten Realms. A specific example with the NWN series is in MotB, the designers wanted to give the player the option to bring down the Wall of the Faithless, but it was deemed too drastic of an impact to the lore, so it was scaled down (Ironically, I think the wall came down in 4th Edition Forgotten Realms). Tanooki1432 19:56, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S here: Blizzard does not generally use the term "canon" with their games, as they have a tendency to Retcon things significantly. In the case of Mass Effect, and Bioware leaving it up to the player, I don't really think the term "canon" can ever really apply to the series. Tanooki1432 19:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Calling for canon in a game that is inherently canon-less (and even more so than most, as this time, unlike in KOTOR and KOTOR II, there's no Lucas network behind you setting canon for an RPG) is pretty much pointless. I mean, when the lead writer comes out and says there is no canon Shepard (no, not even the one in the ads!) you should probably listen to him. But some people don't seem to take too kindly to that approach. It borders on anarchy, I guess. SpartHawg948 20:09, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chimming in :) Cannon Wars can be pretty nasty among fans of great series. And it seems that conflicts over "what's cannon" almost always (if not "always") arise over things that the producers of the series don't want to have any cannon. There are various reasons for them leaving blank spaces like this: to provide replay value and longevity (for video games), or to provide a breathing space for tie-ins and sequels (or reboots or retcons, for that matter). Bioware clearly don't want to make a canon out of the gender of Shepard. They even advertise it in-game: "play with different gender or class to get a totally different experience." (Something like that, I can't remember the verbatim quote.) Of course they had to pick something for advertising purposes: a male soldier Shepard. But RPG veterans everywhere understand that the ad-boy may not even represent the most enjoyable experience for many of us. So far, Sentinels are for me. Should Bioware make a PvP, or Shep vs Shep online shoot-out, I think I can defeat most of the Soldier Sheps out there. To conclude: the only canon for RPG game series is that everything customizable in the character customization screens CAN NOT be made canon. Braveangel 11:00, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think this person speaks true. But for some reason, some people just HAVE to have canon in everything. Hence the reason I suggested that the original poster to this crazy argument not play World of Warcraft, since Blizzard tends to avoid the word "canon" like the plague. Personally, I like Bioware's attitude towards this allowing each individual player to carve their own "canon" how they see fit and not being constrained with some pre-determined set of events (like what I described above with Neverwinter Nights 2). I noticed in the first issue of the comic thing that came with my Collector's Edition of ME2 (with the Collector's weapon and armor. Get it? COLLECTOR'S weapon and armor in the Collector's edition? ba-dum-tsh! Yeah... I know that's bad, but it's 0900 here, cut me some slack) they went out of their way to avoid using a gender and first name when referring to Shepherd, using either just "Shepherd" or "the commander" or "Commander Shepherd", allowing the reader to place their own individual Shepherd(s) in the story. Tanooki1432 13:01, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Me too! I find games where the player sets the canon to be rather refreshing. Of course, no game is entirely free-form (at least none I've played), as you still blow up Sovereign, or stop the Collectors, or defeat Darth Malak, or defeat Jack of Blades or Lord Lucian, or stop Mehrunes Dagon (to cite just a few of my favorites!), but all the other details such as how, and with whom, and the repercussions, are left up to you! Gotta love it! :) SpartHawg948 18:45, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Quote
This quote doesn't really provide a good telling of Shepard's character. It emphasizes his "action hero, kick some ass" side, but not the side that most of the series focuses on. I think a new quote should be selected. 70.109.163.193 08:44, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Two questions: Which quote are you referring to, and do you have any alternate suggestions? I'm assuming you are referring to the quote at the top of the article, and not the ME2 section quote, as the former is more 'action here, kick some ass' than the latter, but best to be sure. SpartHawg948 08:46, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why, yes, yes I am. Maybe something like him telling the counsel about the Reapers or something. You know, badass, but not too charged up and brutal. YEAH! 70.109.163.193 08:50, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. I was hoping for a little more specific, though. Something that could be implemented quick-like, as opposed to having to go and root around for one. Still, it's a start. SpartHawg948 08:50, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * How's 'bout: "I tried to warn you about Saren, and you refused to face the truth. Don't make the same mistake again." Dammej 08:59, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good, but I am thinking something that relates to his entire persona. Dammej's one is more specific towards plot, as is the current one. One that relates to his whole character would be better as a head quote. His interactions with the council can show his personality comin' out, so that is why I suggested that. 70.109.163.193 09:02, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, Dammej's quote does present some spoiler issues. Not big ones, to be sure, but still... The current quote also toes that line, which would be another reason to axe it, but at the same time, doesn't state explicitly who is being referred to, and by the time it could spoil something for you, you'd likely have learned it on your own. So yeah, any new quote would have to be spoiler-free. SpartHawg948 09:06, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aw, really? That was about the closest you could get to being spoiler free (and not utterly boring) in my brief search of council interations on youtube. I don't really think it's any more spoilerific than the current one, anyway. Finding a quote that "brings out his personality" is going to be tough. Is shepard the tree-hugging paragon or the don't-take-crap-from nobody renegade? Another thought: Perhaps he's bipolar? Anyway, I can't do a thorough search at the momemnt, perhaps another time. Dammej 09:13, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are lots of places in the game where all three options result in the same response, quite lamely. One of those would be could. If not, a neutral one would be the best fit. 70.109.163.193 09:21, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Without proper context, the present quote is completely ambiguous. Said context is a pretty big spoiler, so a change is quite warrented. 70.109.163.193 09:10, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd... I thought I just got done saying just that. :P SpartHawg948 09:13, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Err, I guess I didn't fully voice what I meant to say. Been up like 20 hours now. Chased my damn dog for like 30 minutes through the woods earlier. Pretty worn out. Feel like salarian. What I meant to say in my previous post, was that to someone who did not know to whom the present quote refers, it is completely meaningless. So another should be picked. 70.109.163.193 09:18, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

I'm late to this discussion, as usual, but I'm not too fond of either quote (ME or ME2), they're not very broad and don't really make much sense on their own out of context. Perhaps something a little more generic, but still cool, could be used. Perhaps something from Shepard's speeches in each game (when taking command of the Normandy, for ME, and the suicide mission in ME2). JakePT 08:52, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * We could do like someone tried to do a while back, and make it the infamous "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store on the Citadel"! It's memorable, if nothing else. (Please see also- . If that's not good for a laugh, I don't know what is!) :P SpartHawg948 09:00, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Coming from someone who saw that edit, I was laughing my head off at it before I tried to revert and Spart got to it before I did. Hm that was probably the first time we tripped over each other undoing edits perhaps? Anyway I do like the quotes for ME and ME2. The ME quote maybe could be changed, but I can't think of anything offhand right now. As to the ME2 quote, I like that because in context, you are recruting a team, and everybody has some strings attached. Again the universe constantly reminds us of that, but that quote seems to describe the game quite accuratly because not only do you have to recruit a team, but solve their problems as well. Maybe I'm biased becuase that is one of my favorite Shepard quotes, but I still think that is a good one. "Anyway that's just my opinion, no need to go spreading it around." Lancer1289 09:07, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Rank
I know what the Journal said. But when you greet Rear Admiral Mikhailovich, he introduces himself. 'Rear Admiral Mikhailovich, Fifth Fleet' 'Commander Shepard, SSV Normandy' According to military custom, if Shepard were a Lieutenant Commander, would he/she not introduce themselves as 'Lieutenant Commander Shepard, SSV Normandy' Councilor &#39;Rumilee 21:40, July 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. Speaking from professional experience, there is absolutely nothing wrong in regards to custom, protocol, or regulation with leaving out the Lieutenant bit. After all, Shepard is still a Commander. Common procedure is to leave off the Lieutenant (or any other modifier) when addressing them, as well. You call both a Second Lieutenant and a First Lieutenant 'Lieutenant', you call both a Lieutenant Colonel and a Colonel 'Colonel', and you call all four different grades of General or Admiral 'General' or 'Admiral'. Only when it's extremely formal, such as when the person in question is about to receive either a decoration or punitive/corrective action do you use the full rank. Mikhailovich just seems like a real stuffed shirt, stands on ceremony kind of guy. Shep was A-OK and totally by the books. SpartHawg948 21:49, July 17, 2010 (UTC)

A few suggestions...
As a user, I think it is obvious his name is not 'Commander Shepard', and the article should thus be moved to 'Shepard'. Not 'John Shepard', since the player can change the first name of Shepard, and his first name is never said. I also would like to say, probably a picture of the default male Shepard. Probably this picture: http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/3/30014/1229799-image2_large.jpg

Would just make it look neater, thanks.

--Kluutak 19:51, July 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. Shepard's name isn't Commander Shepard. And Admiral Hackett's name isn't Admiral Hackett. Ditto for Admiral Ahern, Admiral Kahoku, Administrator Anoleis, etc, etc. That's just four. I could keep going. Commander Shepard is most often referred to as Commander Shepard. That's why this article is called Commander Shepard. Next, we already have a picture of the default male Shepard. And the default female Shepard. After all, Shepard can be either male or female. Gotta have both or neither, and we have both. SpartHawg948 19:56, July 18, 2010 (UTC)

Issues With triva
I've got some issues with the trivia section of this page, but I didn't want to edit without running them by someone first. 1. 'Seems to speak with a hint of Canadian dialect'. Is something wrong with simply saying he 'speaks with a Canadian accent'. Don't see why we need to use the word dialect, and the 'seems' is unnecessary, I mean, it's a relatively thick accent. 2 . Why does the trivia on Shepard's rank have a point underneath it that contradicts it? 3. The note on his gift for being a leader doesn't seem like 'trivia' to me, more an essential part of the character that should be integrated in the main article. 4. The thing about Shepard being referred to has having 'almost died' doesn't seem particularly worth mentioning, even as trivia. Thoughts? JakePT 09:50, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Let's see... 1) Agree wholeheartedly, and honestly, I'm not even sure it's worth mentioning, period. I can only think of one other human character off-hand whose accent is mentioned (Donovan Hock), and in that case it's because Afrikaner accents are very distinct and relatively rare even today. 2) I can see why it's there, but I agree with you. 3) Agree it isn't trivia, but don't see it being necessarily worthy of the article. 4) It leads in to a hilarious line, the technically undead bit, so I'd argue in favor of keeping it. SpartHawg948 09:57, July 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well here are my opinions on this as well. 1) I agree with both of you, it really don't need to be mentioned. Hock's mention is notworthy becuase of its rairty, but Shepard's, not so much. 2) I can also see why it is there, but I also see your point. 3) I would also have to agree that it isn't trivia. I'd also have to agree with Spart, where could we put it in the article and is it really necessary? My opinion on that no. 4) I would also like to keep this as it does lead to a good line that always cracks me up. So there are my opinions. Lancer1289 15:41, July 24, 2010 (UTC)

Really?
Shepard, with his squad of commandos, have ONLY health and shields?

It does not make sense to me why they can't have armor or biotic barriers added to their resistances. Cerberus could supply them, they're probably the most technologically advanced company in the galaxy, and how could Shepard and Garrus, Jacob, etc NOT have armor?

And a bunch of s2pd Vorcha and even mercenaries, that aren't real soldiers like Shepard, have armor.

I think it should AT LEAST be some sort of upgrade? -random noob
 * Ummm... you can have biotic barriers and armor. You just have to be the right class. They're called Barrier and Tech Armor. SpartHawg948 09:16, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's not what I mean. Barrier just brings up your shields (Tech Armor I'm not sure about). I'm wondering why Shepard and his squad don't have the LAYERS of protection like armors and barriers.
 * That's not what I mean. Barrier just brings up your shields (Tech Armor I'm not sure about). I'm wondering why Shepard and his squad don't have the LAYERS of protection like armors and barriers.

Canon Shepard
Should we try and find out what the Canon Shepard is. I know it's an RPG, but I have a few Ideas. We know that the default Shepard is a male named John, War Hero, and a soldier, so in conversations the middle sentence should be chosen, and when given a paragon and renegade action, it would be switched inbetween in a pattern. For ME2 it would be the same except when there's no middle sentence/choice, and when two squad mates are fighting, it would always be the outcome of both relising their stubborness. No romance would be involved, as ME2 dosen't have him in a relationship. And when on Virmire, Ash is saved and Wrex is dead, as thats the default in ME2. You may not agree because of some outcomes, but that's how it should be. Just an idea that most of you will probably discount.

And on the pages, we would seperate them into categories. Like Canon, Paragon, Renegade, and, others like this. Sorry for spelling.--69.144.238.157 17:21, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

Oops, he's a Sole Survivor. That doesn't change anything. If he was Ruthless everything would be renegade.69.144.238.157 17:27, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Oh not this argument again, why does this keep coming up. Before this turning into yet another debate, let me summerize this for hopefully the last time. BioWare's position on this is that there is no canon Shepard. Everyone's Shepard is the canon shepard, and there is no official one. The defualt John Shepard is provided for those who don't want to customize their characters, and is not considered canon. For hopefully the final time, there is no canon Shepard becuase that is BioWare's, i.e. the ulitimate source of canon information, position. It's their game, their universe, and what they say goes. They say there is no canon Shepard, so there is no canon Shepard. And I am really getting tired of this argument. Lancer1289 17:30, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Default" != "Canon". Default is just that: a random set of parameters, variables, choices, outcomes, whatever that are designed for someone who just wants to jump into the game. Canon is something that is described, written and set by the people behind whatever it is we're talking about as being true to the intentions. It is "canon" that the Space Marines are super human badasses. It is "canon" that Horace betrayed the Emperor. It is "canon" that the Borg are a collective conciousness. It is "default" that male Shephard is male, Sole Survivor, Earthborn, offed Wrex and let the council die. If it was canon that Shep let the council die, then the council would be dead in ME2, regardless of actions taken in ME1. For further examples, see my posts above about Neverwinter Nights 2. The people who set the canon for Mass Effect have stated that there IS NO CANON. (Side note: This is one of the problems I have with the Mass Effect movie in that it almost seems like it's forcing canon on something that is canon-less. Do NOT get me started on all of my gripes with the Mass Effect movie) Tanooki1432 17:39, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * (Edit conflict again) Indeed if BioWare wanted to set canon, they would have done so by now. However they maintain that each person's story is unique and they don't want to set canon, much like how Blizzard does in WoW, which I avoid like the plague. Default =/= canon, != is computer code for "does not equal" just in case anyone was wondering, and I am also really tired of people suggesting that it is. Default is provided on almost all RPGs, I think there is an exception or two, but I can recall them of hand, for people who just want ot jump righ in or who don't like to custoimzie, which some people don't. There is no canon Lt. Commander Shepard, deafult isn't canon, Mass Effect doens't have canon. Personally I like that BioWare did it this way because each person can come up with their own story, their own Shepard, and their own experience. Lancer1289 17:51, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * To the movie comment, yes I also have a lot of misgivings about it as well. Lancer1289 17:52, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * The movie won't be "forcing canon" on anything. The games came first, they're the top of the food chain. Where the movie conflicts with the games, the games win. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:13, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was more worried about the people saying that if it comes out, how long has that Halo movie been promiced again, people might think it is canon. Then we have to correct them, then the arguments start. I'm not looking forward to that. Lancer1289 20:16, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * You never know. BioWare might pull a Lucas and release their own version of the 5 levels of canon or some such. SpartHawg948 20:18, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shows what I know about the Star Wars canon. I knew they had levels, but not 5. Maybe BioWare will do that, but who can say for sure until the situation arrises. Lancer1289 20:24, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

When I think about it some, it seems incorrect to say that Mass Effect has no canon... Otherwise, what do we label things like the Protheans or the Rachni Wars or the Krogen Rebellions or other historical things? It seems more accurate to say that there is no canon Commander Shepard, rather then Mass Effect has no canon. Just wanted to clear that up. Also, in regards to the movie, I'll only start worrying if it comes out... Even then, for all we know, it might not even focus on Shepard and if that's the case, it's all moot point. I think I read somewhere that the author of the Mass Effect novels specifically stated he will NOT write a book about Shepard, leaving that all up to the players.

Hell... I think the Warcraft movie has been sitting in pre-production purgatory for like two or three years now. I don't even think they have a director nailed down yet. So, I'm not real worried about the ME movie yet.Tanooki1432 19:54, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the 'examples' you give make no sense. The 'no-canon' thing applies to gameplay, not to events that happened long before the games. Backstory =/= canon. SpartHawg948 19:56, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed backstory =/= canon. Canon is things like in KotOR where Revan is male and the Exile is female or things like that. Backstory is just that backstory. There to tell the players what has happened. Also I really would like to know about this Second American Civil War.
 * As to the movie, the Halo film has been off and on again and again since 2004. So I am also not confident it will come out any time soon. And wayway they might not be considered canon at all. The Harry Potter movies aren't considered canon in their universe. Lancer1289 20:00, August 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * In regards to the movie, maybe it'll star Chuck Norris. Then, it won't matter what the movie is about because everyone will be too busy quoting and/or making new Chuck Norris jokes to care what the movie is about. Tanooki1432 12:30, August 18, 2010 (UTC)