Talk:Citadel

Interstellar Language
How is it that all of these various species from all over the galaxy all speak English? Was that ever explained in-game or in the codex? Dtemps123 02:57, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * It already has been explained in the Codex. Please refer to the Codex entry on translation. SpartHawg948 01:13, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

In Works
I'm working on the article now, will be done (or as done as it gets till the 20th!) tomorrow. I'm gonna do a layout section (w/ station design + locations), defenses (self-explanatory), and more than likely a residents section focusing on the Keepers and residents of the Wards. Any input would be welcome. SpartHawg948 13:42, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Citadel picture
Since the screen shots in this article are rather small I have made a few that could eventually replace them or complement them, in 720p resolution. Have no fear or copyrights, I assure you these are made by me from the in-game cut scenes played with a Bink video player and captured with "Print Screen". Anyone could have done the same :) I have posted across a few articles, so be sure to check them out as well (Sovereign, Destiny Ascension, FTL, M35 Mako, Mass Relay and Citadel). Here are the HD screen shots for the Citadel. As I have no idea how to upload images here I will let you do it.

http://c.imagehost.org/0411/NormandyCitadel.png http://c.imagehost.org/0328/NormandyCitadel2.png

These two are almost the same but I was unsure if it was better with or without the sun flare. It shows the whole Citadel, which is a big plus considering there is no image like that right now. :)

69.159.102.144 17:34, 24 July 2008 (UTC)Darkdrium

Linguistic Inquiry
To what extent is the use of more advanced vocabulary permitted on this page ( I refer mainly to the removal of "zenithal" in the opening paragraph)?

Heliossoileh 21:33, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * My rule is: if a casual user might have to use a dictionary to look up what a word means, it doesn't belong in a wiki article. Nice work on the article apart from that. --Tullis 22:04, 14 November 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks. Heliossoileh 22:40, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

Linguistic amendment- "coveniently/strategically"
Tullis, I refer you to the definition of "conveniently" found at www.dictionary.com:

"suitable or agreeable to the needs or purpose; well-suited with respect to facility or ease in use; favorable, easy, or comfortable for use."

"Strategically", while an acceptable synonym, intimates the notion of purpose, as opposed to good fortune. Though we ultimately know that it was a strategic arrangement created by the Reapers, it would be poor practice to foreshadow this before the relevant section of the page; as far as the nascent council races were concerned, it was fortunate that they should find such a usefully situated station. Hence, "conveniently" would be far more apt. Heliossoileh 23:09, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * That apparently suggests that its discovery was not convenient, its placement is. 'Convenience' in the vernacular suggests that it happened by chance. The Citadel was placed there at the nexus of the relays and is necessary to their operation. It doesn't imply the Reapers necessarily put it there, as the Protheans were presumably not ignorant of strategy either. --Tullis 23:17, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think 'strategically' works. As far as anyone is concerned, the Protheans built the Citadel in the nexus of their Mass Relay system. The fact the Reapers did it is is irrelevant. - Skarmory The PG 23:45, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Having thought about both responses, I would now like to clarify and amend the argument I propounded above:

When speaking of an arrangement between various entities in such a context ( in this instance, the Citadel and the complex of mass relays) we logically first describe the facility/usefulness/convenience of the arrangement. The arrangement above could be described as useful/convenient. We then talk about the reason(s) why the arrangement is as it is (or, "What caused this to happen?"); this is usually expressed via a dichotomy of purposeful(strategic)/accidental(sometimes "random").

I believe an analogy is helpful: regarding the arrangement of rooms within a building, I might describe the proximity of a fire exit to a bedroom as useful/convenient and not imply whether this was purposeful of the builders or not; indeed, it may have been a clever architectural feature, or merely a constructive blunder.

This pertains to the current discussion in that we are explaining why the Citadel became the galactic capital ("a hub of activity...political and cultural heart of Citadel space") that it did; a description of the usefulness/convenience of its arrangement with the complex of mass relays is sufficient to achieve this. However, in light of the introductory paragraph of this page, especially the reference to the "Prothean creation", I would propose a compromise: both the usefulness/convenience and why (causally, not descriptively) it is useful/convenient ( viz. purposefulness/strategy of the Protheans) is expressed e.g. "The design(implying purposefulness) of the Citadel, with its convenient(useful) proximity to various mass relays leading to different galactic locations, led to it becoming a hub of activity..." I hope this meets with your approval. Heliossoileh 00:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I write for a living, and I agree with Stephen King and Hemingway -- the simplest word is often the strongest one and an overdressed vocabulary trips over itself. Wikis have to be accessible, concise, and explanatory for everyone, without the word choices within the articles needing to be explained. I had to read the above a few times to realise you were proposing a couple of word changes to this article. I'd rather go for a simple word that may only be 90% accurate, rather than an 100% accurate sentence that's thirty words long. I realise you may disagree with this word change and I respect that. But I genuinely think 'strategically' should stay. That is all. --Tullis 03:07, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * So be it, though, in the words of my advocate Voltaire: "History should be written as philosophy." Heliossoileh 03:47, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

"Enigma"
According to Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary:

"An action, mode of action, or thing, which cannot be satisfactorily explained; a puzzle; as, his conduct is an enigma."

The enigma needn't be an exhaustive puzzle; in the above definition, information is probably known about him, and his conduct. The key is that his conduct cannot be satisfactorily explained. Similarly, the Citadel remains a puzzle, in that, while many things are known about it, the locations of its key components are not known, nor what those those components consist of, etc. I suggest that this is the prima facie reading of the word in the relevant context. Heliossoileh 14:05, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Enough, please.

 * The prima facie reading of that sentence to the casual reader is that the Citadel itself is an enigma as a whole and has never had any of its 'elements' solved, which as I said, is misleading. But to be honest, I really don't want to keep cluttering up this Talk page by dissecting every single word change to this article. This is the bottom line.
 * As the disclaimer says at the bottom of every edit, writing on wikis gets mercilessly revised. A wiki article has to be fundamentally accessible to everyone. If you cannot accept changes made to your writing that are intended to make it more readable and user-friendly, this may not be the place for your work. Wiki writing has to strike a balance. Kirkburn's ME Manual of Style has some (admittedly brief) pointers to clarify what wiki writing should be (which I should have pointed out sooner, mea culpa). I hope they're useful for you. I really don't want to keep rehashing this. --Tullis 14:48, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Missing Pieces?
On my first playthrough several pieces of the Citadel were missing: the Keeper in the Elcor Diplomat's office and the help desk downstairs. The Keeper returned after getting every other Keeper in the Citadel, but the help desk was MIA until a subsequent visit. Believe me, I would've noticed if there was a giant help desk in that room. This was on the Xbox.

Has anyone else had this happen to them?
 * The missing keeper is a known bug, but the help desk? Never had that go missing. That's odd. Anyone? --Tullis 03:43, 2 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Help desk has always been there for me,but the Hanar that owns the shop in the financial district hasn't appeared for me,and i've finished feros,noveria and virmire. Flying Ninja Burger 16:05, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

Brief Inquiry Regarding the "day-night cyle"
I've recently started another save of Mass Effect, in which Garrus informed me that the lights are never dimmed in the Presidium. Would it be correct to assume that the contrary information in the Codex is authoritative?
 * I think it's also mentioned in ME: Revelation (though I'm not certain) that the Presidium goes through a day-night cycle. --Tullis 12:55, 3 August 2009 (UTC)

KOTOR II
OK, this seems to have been an issue a couple of times now, so I would like to reiterate the point another admin has made in regards to people claiming that Citadel Station could be a reference to Citadel Station from the game Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic II, which editors claim is a BioWare game. It isn't. It's an Obsidian game. BioWare did not develop it, as they were busy w/ Jade Empire at the time. As such, they recommended another developer, Obsidian. That recommendation was about the full extent of their involvement w/ KOTOR II, so please let's lay off the KOTOR II "BioWare" speculation. Thanks. SpartHawg948 21:51, September 11, 2009 (UTC)

Presidium and citadel tower locations
The presidium is the long strip that begins at the edge of the inner circle and extends towards the center right? And the citadel tower is at the tip of the presidium right in the middle of the whole thing right? I don't think that this is mentioned in the article but since I don't remember where I heard this I was going to ask you guys if I was correct before I add it even though I’m pretty sure I’m right.
 * The Presidium is the actual ring at the centre of the Citadel. The Citadel tower protrudes from it at a right angle, joined to the Presidium from the "strip" in the centre, which I assume is the elevator up to it. I'm... not sure it's worth adding that here though. We already have a Citadel Tower article. --Tullis 02:13, September 21, 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2
I have a question; will the Citadel return in Mass Effect 2? I mean, it doesn't really make much sense that the Citadel Council, the governing force of the galactic community in Citadel space, would return to the Citadel, the place where Sovereign attacked and nearly killed them. On the other hand, on one of the pages of Mass Effect: Redemption, it says that the Citadel Council plans on repairing the station. What would possess them to continue to inhabit the gate to their destruction?--Through jealousy, I prevail 00:50, November 23, 2009 (UTC)


 * Minor correction here: What would possess them to continue to inhabit the former gate to their averted destruction. They now know precisely what the threat was, and surely will be taking steps to prevent it from occurring again. Realistically, where else would they go? Where else can they find a nigh-impregnable space station situated at the nexus of the mass relay network (which facilitates rapid reinforcement) shrouded in a protective nebula with an entire race of beings dedicated to keeping it running so that they can go about the business of governance? Honestly, I don't think it makes much sense to not return to the Citadel. I mean, in the wake of a crisis, it's best for the leadership to radiate an aura of confidence, and what better place to do that from than the Citadel? The so-called "gate to their destruction" has been rendered inert, leaving only the positive aspects of the station, which I listed above. And yes, from all indications the Council will still be on the Citadel in ME2. SpartHawg948 01:46, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * My thought was that the asari, on discovering a deserted though hugely helpful space station at the end of the mass relay network, should have been a little more cautious. At the point of ME2 there's simply too many people on the space station and not enough consensus that there is really a threat to move them away. They do step up security a little bit, though Steviesteveo 22:40, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Rotational gravity in the wards
The Citadel is stated to rotate at the speed of one revolution per 3.5 minutes. This gives a correct estimate for rotational gravity in the presidium ring: about .3g for the diameter of 7.2 km. For the wards, however, the situation is different. Given the stated diameter of the station is 12.8 km (in the open state!) we should have less than .6g of rotational gravity in the wards. Isn't this a little strange?

The level designers were thoughtfull enough to include warnings about Coriolis effect, to the effect that dropped objects or falling persons will fall towards the windows. In the codex it explains that the citadel rotates upon its cylindrical axis to simulate gravity. Why is this not apparent in either the cutscenes, or in any of the internal views where the Presidium is visible from the ward. No rotation is shown. To the player the nebula and stars should appear to be rotating.67.249.11.125 08:11, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Easter Egg/Possible Reference
Found a little easter egg that might refer to Mark Vanderloo: FEBO Easter Egg

Seeing as how Vanderloo is Dutch, I think it's an easter egg and a reference to Vanderloo to add FEBO walk-up fast food resturaunts in the Citadel (and I think also in Illium, during Samara's recruitment mission, but not entirely sure).

Just wanted to add that.

116.48.248.193 15:24, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yea no not an easter egg or reference at all. It is just a random movement by Garrus and not unique as each character has generalized and unique ones. Don't add it. Lancer1289 15:27, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wrong thing however while the likeness is close, the comment was made by a user and, currently, I don't think that we have an official source for that information. Either way, don't add it mainly due to contiunility issues. Lancer1289 15:36, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

A good picture.
I found a great picture of the citadel on this link:

http://konstochvanligasaker.se/barnvagnen/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/mass-effect-2-citadel.jpg

It may will be useable.
 * Ah yes I have always liked that picture, as it is the wallpaper on my laptop. Anyway I'll see what I can do about fitting it in unless anyone objects. Lancer1289 19:10, July 21, 2010 (UTC)

Possible reference?
Is it possible that giving the Citadel its name is a reference to Citadel Station in System shock? Since a lot of games in the same vein tend to draw from it.

I can't be the only one who saw the Citadel and thought this! 99.246.116.144 08:52, July 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * If we put how many stations in scifi take the name Citadel, we'd have a list as long as my arm. Now since I have never played this game, and going of the Wikipedia article, there are way to many differences. That Citadel was a human station, ME's wasn't. The AI aboard that station went rogue, and IIRC, the Citadel has only a VI. That one is in orbit of Earth, while ME's is in a nebula. ME's Citadel is the center of galactic society, that one is a mining station. I'll stop there but there are are more differences that similarities. Also this just appears to be a name trivia reference, which as I already pointed out, if we had a list of those, then it would go on for some time. Lancer1289 09:03, July 27, 2010 (UTC)

Adding shop list
As per lengthily discussed Mass Effect Wiki:Manual of Style/Planets, adding a brief list of shop links. Hythloday1 03:38, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * So when did we agree to this? I wasn't aware the discussion was over yet. Lancer1289 03:40, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Mathematical Inconsistency
Regarding an edit to the "Galactic Standard Time" portion under the "Statistics Section":

The twenty-hour Galactic Standard Day would equal 50 x 100 x 20 = 100000 human seconds whereas: A day on earth equals 60 x 60 x 24 = 86400 human seconds.

Thus, (100000-86400)/(86400) = 15.74% longer, which would round up to 16% rather than 15%.

That being said, I understand if the edit from 16% to 15% was done to make a more "clean" number. My apologies in such a case; 'm just being nitpicky...
 * However, canon disagrees with you. Quote from Mass Effect: Revelation Page 96 Paragraph 1: "The net result was that the twenty-hour galactic standard day was about fifteen percent longer than the twenty-four-hour day as calculated by Terran Coordinated Universal Time." (Emphasis added). Canon in this case, and in every case, overrides your math. Perhaps Mr. Karpyshyn rounded down instead of up, but either way it is fifteen in canon so it is fifteen here. Lancer1289 17:47, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

I see. Well, I can't fault the writers if they went with "about", and if policy is that canon comes out first, then there is no issue.

The other end
So the Citadel can close its fancy arms and protect itself...but why can't enemy ships just come right on in through the other side of the ring? --Lucius Voltaic 07:49, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Because armored plates slide in place and seal that end closed. In fact, armored plates slide in place and seal both ends closed. The ward arms don't enclose either end. They form a cylinder. Both ends are covered by separate plates that slide into place. I don't believe we have it on the site (and probably can't get it... copyright issues), but pages 32-33 of the Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183 feature an outstanding illustration that show both sets of end plates. SpartHawg948 07:55, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, check out the image found here in this very article, the image depicting the SSV Normandy above the Citadel. You can clearly see three of the plates that seal the "front" (non-tower) end of the Citadel. None of the images show the ones at the other end though... :( SpartHawg948 08:07, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Addendum to the previous addendum - check out File:Citadel-sideview.jpg. It's a bit blurry, but you can make out one of the armor plates that covers the other end of the Citadel, the "other side of the ring" as you call it, up by the Citadel tower. SpartHawg948 09:01, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, okay. You'd think they'd have made that a bit more obvious... --Lucius Voltaic 17:03, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * In all fairness, it does seem pretty obvious, to me at least. I'm pretty sure it's mentioned in Mass Effect: Revelation, it's definitely mentioned in the Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183, should be mentioned in the bonus discs for both the Limited Collector's and Platinum Hits editions, is shown in the Prima Game Guide, can be seen in the game, and see that the Citadel is fully enclosed during the climactic scenes of the game, demonstrating (at the very least) that the other end isn't just open to space. About the only things they didn't do was have a Codex entry on it and have a character flat-out state it in-game. SpartHawg948 00:21, March 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * While it does seem obvious to me as well, I can also see where Lucius is coming from. Most of the depictions of the Citadel in the games and art have the other end open. Only if you look at the end of ME do you see it, and that involved looking the other direction of where you would be heading, and maybe a few glimpses during cutscenes. I can't remember anything about it Revelation, and since I don't own the Galactic Codex, I couldn't check. Lancer1289 00:51, March 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * Revelation doesn't explicitly state that there are little armored bits on the ends that fold up to enclose the two ends, but it does state pretty definitively that when the Citadel is closed up, it's fully sealed and, to quote the book, "all but impregnable." So yeah, something is stated in Revelation, and then you have all the other sources I listed, including the game itself. Again, it'd be hard to make it more obvious without them outright saying "and there are these little pieces that enclose the ends", especially after they have said several times in several sources, including the game, and even the Codex ("the station can close its arms to form a solid, impregnable shell." [emphasis added]) that when the Citadel closes, it closes completely, as opposed to partially closing but leaving one or two ends open to any and all attackers. SpartHawg948 04:38, March 8, 2011 (UTC)

Mass Effect 1 assignments
I've just done the bit on ME1 were Anderson punches Udina in the face. I've escaped the Citadel and now I'm going to do some assignments and stuff before I go to Ilos. The thing is some assignments require me to go back to the Citadel and talk to someone (I.e UNC: Dead Marines). Is there a way to contact this person, or at least go back to the Citadel at a later date? N7 09:30, March 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * First I should point out that there is no game called Mass Effect 1, it's just Mass Effect. As to the question itself, after leaving the Citadel after the lockdown, you cannot go back. Lancer1289 16:36, March 26, 2011 (UTC)

A little layout changes
Ok I've made a few edits to the layout of the page, sorry if you don't like that :/ in which case you can revert. Oh and, I was thinking, should Statistics be moved below History?--Technobliterator 22:55, June 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have since restored the original, but I am very much open to discussion on the matter. The first, and biggest problem was there were some absolutely massive spoilers, i.e. the entire game, for Mass Effect, that were located above a spoiler tag, which was the "The Last Days of the Protheans" section. That's a big no-no. The rest seems more like personal preferences, which are of course open to discussion. However, things like this, article overhauls and formatting changes, are generally discussed here before hand before changes like this take place. Lancer1289 00:57, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ahh sorry I missed out on the Spoilers template (mainly because I've never used it before). But yeah, because of that then the Last Days of the Protheans shouldn't come under History, unless History his moved to below the Layout section. Now I've always had History section come first in an article, but in this case I'll support History being moved to below Layout. As for the Inhabitants & Defences sections, should they come under Statistics? This is simply for organization & personal preferences. Also, the Dune Rats thing wasn't 100% necessary, as ; can do the job, so I changed that. I also wrote a little (but not much) about the keepers in that section, unless that should be removed? The rest of the changes yeah I'll discuss here first.--Technobliterator 18:31, June 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * I can't see a problem with the keepers being added, but ; ''' honestly, no one really cares about here. One or the other is fine and there really isn't a need to switch it, especially when more people are used to the latter. As for Inhabitants & Defences, I really don't see a pressing need to move them. Lancer1289 19:07, June 5, 2011 (UTC)

Created by Reapers?
i thought the citadel and mass relays were created by the Reapers?
 * They where. So why is this being asked? Lancer1289 20:17, January 14, 2012 (UTC)