Talk:Legion

Is There a Confirmation That He Will Be a Squadmember?
Where is it confirmed that he is a squadmember?


 * The NowGamer article linked in the article confirms that the geth shown in the first teaser trailer could become a member of your team, and the trailer in question was named the 'Legion' Trailer on the Bioware site prior to the revamp. --TheWilsonator 04:29, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * it doesn't confirm it, it says that "apparently". Also kinda strange that Legion is shown in "enemies" video. And there is no official confirmation from Bioware devs that he is a squadmember.


 * While the 'apparently' wording makes it somewhat less solid, (I think he was just covering his arse because Bioware was still keeping a lot of info under wraps, including Legion), the article in OXM also mentions that players will "really connect" with the character, hinting that he will be around for the haul. They also gush about his emotive expressions etc. He appears in the 'enemies' trailer, but it doesn't necessarily mean he won't join you. It wouldn't be the first time Bioware let an former foe join your squad. They could also be throwing people off with his geth connection. In fact, the whole character seems exist at least partly to subvert the 'every geth is mindless and hostile' trope. Now if only they'd show us a nice batarian... --TheWilsonator 05:13, November 6, 2009 (UTC)


 * 'Nice' and 'Batarian' do not go together :P I'd rather be able to satisfactorily smash that one from BDTS between all four eyes with the butt of a rifle. I have a grudge against those guys in particular, mainly because of the DLC. Phylarion 10:28, November 6, 2009 (UTC)

Legion as a He
They refer to him several times as a 'he' in the recent trailer. --TheWilsonator 09:14, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, but Legion refers to itself as we. If it doesn't consider itself male, and it is a synthetic, asexual being, how can it be classed a he? SpartHawg948 09:15, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * True, but his voice and build are masculine- and bioware refer to him as male. Many fictional bots and AIs are classed as masculine and feminine based on their general personality, voice and appearance, such as HK and Avina on this very wiki. I think we can safely assume it's a dude geth. --TheWilsonator 09:19, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * So, all geth are males? He has the same build as the standard geth trooper. As for the voice, it's synthetic, and most likely programmed in, not something Legion changed on a whim. Seeing as it has a cookie-cutter build standard for it's race, has a synthesized voice that as far as we know was not of it's own choosing, and has (as yet) no demonstrated male personality (even contradicting this theory by calling itself "we"), then by your own logic, I think we should keep referring to it as "it". Remember, we're not in the business of making assumptions in the articles here, safe or not. SpartHawg948 09:24, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough, but what about the Bioware referral? --TheWilsonator 09:29, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Plenty of people refer to the asari as "She", including BioWare people, but they too are genderless (or monogendered, rather) beings. It was probably just something that came naturally. It's not natural to refer to a sentient being as "it" in conversation, and that tends to kinda leap out as unusual. It was most likely a slip of the tongue, and at the end of the day, the ultimate canon source is the game, and so far it points towards a gender neutral Legion. Now, as with everything where I take a strict speculation-busting, better safe than sorry approach, if it does turn out that Legion is acknowledged as being w/ male programming/personality, I'll happily step aside. Till then, if an asexual synthetic being calls itself "we", I'm gonna go ahead and not make gender assumptions. SpartHawg948 09:37, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, I was just wondering since you hadn't addressed that point yet. No need for the barbs. --TheWilsonator 09:38, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, not sure what you're referring to. I don't see any "barbs" in my post, I was merely addressing the point, which I had thought was already covered. After all, Legion's use of the "we" to refer to itself WAS written by the BioWare people, likely with much more forethought than went into the casual use of "he" by someone in an interview. Again, though, not really sure what "barbs" are being referred to, I was merely answering your query to the best of my ability. SpartHawg948 09:44, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries, I was probably just being paranoid. Let's just wait for future interviews or the game to shed some light on all this. --TheWilsonator 09:45, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Legion isn't referring to himself as "we", he's referring to the geth as "we", both his spoken lines are clearly talking about the geth (or maybe more broadly, synthetics) in general, not himself: "We do not experience fear, but we understand how it affects you" and "Organics do not choose to fear us is is a function of your hardware". I think "he" is fine, or instead follow the standard set by Sovereign and just refer to hi..th..he... it as Legion. JakePT 08:02, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Do you have sourcing supporting the claim that Legion is referring to the collective and not itself? Because that is far from obvious in the videos released so far. It doesn't really seem to add up that the first geth to think as an individual would speak in terms of the collective. Again, as I hypothesized below, it could be referring to itself but saying we and us as a holdover from it's time in the collective. Honestly, I don't see why it's such a contentious idea to refer to a genderless synthetic being as it. SpartHawg948 08:30, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * There's no reason to think that it isn't. The idea that a geth, individual or not, would refer to themselves as "we" and "us" has been completely pulled out of thin air, not to mention that the two occasions he refers to "we" and "us" the traits he is referring to are not specific to Legion, and are better understood as referring to all geth or synthetics. Also, referring to oneself as "me" instead of "we" would, if I had to guess, be the first thing that such a being would start doing. Anyway, if a crazy person referred to themselves as "we" no one would call them "they" so it's not really relevent to the he/it discussion anyway. I propose we just go with shklee. :P


 * Anyway, this isn't a debate that's going to be settled by the Mass Effect wiki, since it hasn't been settled anywhere else.


 * http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_pronoun


 * JakePT 08:49, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, it was pretty much pulled out of the same thin air as the assumption that an individual conversing with another individual would refer to itself as part of a collective it has evolved beyond. As for a crazy person, if it was a crazy GENDERLESS SYNTHETIC I'd refer to it as an it, not a he or she. Comparing a self-aware sentient genderless synthetic to an insane human is beyond apples and oranges, it's apples and watermelons. :) SpartHawg948 08:54, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * I think you are mistaken about what "we" implies. If Legion says "we" in a way that includes the Geth, it does not mean he necessarily believes himself to be a part of the Geth collective.  There are multiple layers of inclusiveness.  It could mean "we, as synthetics, do not experience fear..."  it could mean "we, as members of the Geth species,..." it could mean "we, as members of the Geth collective,..."  I think everyone agrees with you that it is unlikely that Legion intends the last meaning.  But we are saying that it is far more likely that he intends the first two (we=synthetics or we=Geth species), than it is for Legion to intend "we=itself."--69.200.247.132 20:21, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * In an aside, as stated above I am perfectly happy changing the references to him, his, he, whatev if it is shown that Legion refers to itself thusly. I'm with TheWilsonator, we should wait for more conclusive videos or the game itself before making these changes though. SpartHawg948 08:56, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Gender Neutral Referencing
It occurred to me that we have been referring to Legion as "he". No evidence has been presented that Legion considers itself male or possesses masculine personality/programming. In fact, Legion refers to itself as "we", likely as a hold-over from it's time in the geth "collective" (although that is pure speculation on my part). So, reworded the article to replace all the he with it, and his with its. Please make sure to make your edits accordingly as well. Also, please make sure one and all to avoid gender-specific references to Shepard (i.e. Shepard and his squad). Thanks, SpartHawg948 09:15, November 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Legion is a genderless "it." The developers tend to refer to it as "he" because the voice actor is male. At least that's the way I left it. Stormwaltz 02:12, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that was pretty much my take on it too. SpartHawg948 05:15, November 10, 2009 (UTC)


 * "He" refers to himself as we wouldnt it be more appropriate to refer to him as "they" (that was the most retarded thing anyone wrote ever)


 * Do what now? Near as I can tell those words were never entered here till you entered them, ralok. Or were you claiming that what you just posted was "the most retarded thing anyone wrote ever"? SpartHawg948 09:11, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ralok, I'm going to ask you for the last time: watch your language when posting. You have already been warned both by myself and by SpartHawg, and those warnings are apparently being ignored. Almost all your edits to talk pages have been combative, if not downright rude. If you're referring to another user's comment as "retarded", that is unacceptable; if you're referring to yourself, given the sentence isn't clear it could cause confusion or offence to other users. If I see this again, you face a ban. --Tullis 15:22, November 18, 2009 (UTC)


 * Now i want an apology i did nothing but make fun of myself for suggesting the article refers to legion as a "the" it might not have been entirely clear but certainly dont think its worth a ban to make fun of oneself, what should be clear though is that i wasnt referring to anybody elses comment as retarded. If i was going to insult another comment i would have done it but i didnt. ralok 04:44, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * Bah i dont need an apology, i am just very sad that my sentence was so horribly misinterpreted that it appearently almost got me banned from the webssite. ralok 04:53, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * The reason it was "misinterpreted" is because there was absolutely no precedent or context given for your statement. The first and only time you suggested that the article refer to Legion as "the" was also the sentance on which you stated that it was the most retarded thing ever written. It was hardly clear what you were trying to say. Also, it was not just this one comment that almost got you banned from the website (one s in that word, btw), it was the fact that the statement appeared to be part of a trend of insulting and offensive statements that you have posted, which have, btw, only garnered one apology from you to date (since you brought the topic of apologies up). If you want to avoid having your statements misconstrued, you really need to be more specific. Contrary to your statement, the intent of your initial comment was far from clear. SpartHawg948 07:44, November 19, 2009 (UTC)


 * i meant to say "they" no the. And i have no idea what your talking about, i wish to continue this conversation elsewhere and not interrupt the legion talk page further. ralok 08:26, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * And please stop pointing out every obvious spelling mistake i make, thats just another way of insulting me, i know those mistakes are there, i have stated that i am a poo typist please do not point out a mistake unless it compimises the entire stucture of my statement. ralok 08:30, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
 * aaaaannnnndddd i messed up thata paragraph aswell mispelling poor as poo annd using the word another instead of saying, it feels like. I should have said i feel insulted when someone points out my spelling mistake especially when they are mad at me because it feels like tehy are just trying to use every human error to turn me into the living embodiement of evil, thtats the only rational reason if you were trying to get me to be a better persoon and less omeanor rude to everyone around you could have stated the facts cleaarly and calmly, instead you chooose to pick on me for mispelling website. Pretty much doing everything you can to keep me angry without comprimising youself. ralok 08:38, November 19, 2009 (UTC)

Squad Member Confirmation
Apparantly, the NowGamer site has been known to post false or speculated information before. Perhaps we should keep the character page, move his characters icon to adversaries, but for now remove any references to him being a squad member until we get more solid confirmation? --TheWilsonator 19:17, November 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, I see why we would remove him being a squad member for now, but I don't think we should automatically call him an adversary. SpartHawg948 21:34, November 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * In hindsight, maybe the fact that he appears prominently in the Enemies of Mass Effect 2 video does qualify him for adversary... SpartHawg948 07:22, November 29, 2009 (UTC)

At least temporarily, he'll bbe an andversary; I mean, you never know with Mass Effect and BioWare.

Source
where the hell did you guys find this guy? I havent heard a thing about this dude.


 * Have you tried referring to either of the two sources clearly listed in the "references" portion of the article? That's always a good place to start if you are wondering about sources! :P SpartHawg948 19:19, November 18, 2009 (UTC)