Talk:Kasumi Goto

Raloi?
Cerberus Daily News keeps putting up that the Raloi were discovered and are now a new species of citadel space. People on this talk page keep saying she doesn't look exactly human. Is there anyway kasumi could be one of the new Raloi? Dtemps123 16:14, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * Cerberus news says a lot of things. Doesn't mean they will actually appear in game. It had a clear Super Bowl reference the day of the Super Bowl, but I don't expect to have a football mini-game added as DLC. Beyond that, if the Raloi were *just* discovered, the fact that Kasumi has a history of stealing from Cerberus would preclude her from being of that species. ShadowRanger 16:48, February 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * That, and the fact that one of the news reports about Kasumi on Illium specifically identifies her as human. -- Commdor (Talk) 16:56, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * That, and the fact that the raloi are an avian species, and there is no indication of Kasumi being a bird. :P SpartHawg948 21:42, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I only read the Raloi article after I had already written thatDtemps123 18:56, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Now, I'm no scientist, but aren't you supposed to do the research before constructing the hypothesis? :P SpartHawg948 20:18, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

yay
Good job to Sp8cemonkey83 for getting us those screens! DM Khalas 18:02, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah. It was just something random I came across while messing with the Coalesced.ini file. The really weird part was when I tried to load the character and it gave me the error about the missing DLC. The Zaeed DLC is named VERY SIMILARLY which led me to the conclusion that Kasumi will possibly be DLC as well. Sp8cemonkey83 19:05, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Quite probably a human, from what I see. Her left hand's shape in the image's position imply that she has more than 3 fingers, which bars most alien species. She does have that sort of Tali-like veil, but even for Tali, it's only a style matter when you look at the other quarians. DM Khalas 18:18, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

At least one of those screens is a Photoshop. That isn't a picture of Kasumi; look at her reflection. It doesn't line up with the character. Please remove it until something guaranteed by Bioware is released.

My problem with Kasumi is that she's extremely out of place in a ME universe, or so she looks. If looking at art of her so far, she looks like she belongs in an anime, the name even makes it seem like that, I've heard some claims around the bioware forums that Kasumi is a joke, she won't really be a character, then there's people claiming she will be, because she's got a file there, and it looks like she'll be a DLC, but that could also be a trick played by the people at bioware to continue the joke. Also as mentioned by someone else is that she's got an extremely quarian look about her clothing, but she's human, so it's just weird, and I don't think she should be treated as an official character until there's actually a known DLC release.. Also I have no idea what "part" she would play in the team, she's got that sort of melee assassin style look about her, which we already have Thane as an assassin, and she's a "Thief" but we don't have any sort of decription/electronics this time in ME2 like in ME, so what's her skillset? She doesn't look like she'd use biotics, nor is it mentioned in her dossier that's shown, and she's certainly not a soldier type, or an engineer type, so what would she do? I'd assume SMG/Pistol would be her weapons since they're small and compact, but there's already plenty of characters with those weapons available in ME2, Zaeed's addition makes some sense, since there was still some soldier skills they could hook him up with that wouldn't overlap too badly with the rest... To me, she still looks like a fake character, a joke from the makers, because she just looks so different than any other character in the ME universe, and if you even look closely at her face, the black area of the hood, looks just like how the male quarian's helmets are, combined with the veil that looks a lot like Tali's hood, her looking *much* closer to the body structure of a quarian than a human, but is obviously not a quarian, and she just doesn't fit... Also the addition of loudspeaker announcements about her could be similarly classed the way Blasto the Hanar Spectre is. Jaline 18:38, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Are you saying Blasto won't be DLC!? Oh noes :( DM Khalas 18:51, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Images were not Photoshopped. Here is a link to the Coalesced.ini that will prove this. Replace the one that's in your Mass Effect 2 directory. Sp8cemonkey83 19:03, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Kasumi Coalesced.ini

I don't think that the reflection issue was photoshop, I think it was actually a side effect of 1. Kasumi not being a real character. 2. Kasumi was obviously in the place where Miranda was before in that picture, this means that the file that was used simply overwrote Miranda, I don't believe Kasumi has her reflection properly move forward, because she wasn't meant to be real, or if she IS real, then obviously the files that are available of her so far, are certainly not complete. Also sad to say, that yeah likely Blasto won't be a DLC, if you pay attention to when Thane talks about the Hanar, outside of the water, they're fairly weak, the most they can do is choke people according to Zaeed. Jaline 19:10, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

This is all speculation. Like how Jaline said, Kasumi has no place in the ME Universe. She could of been a squadmate, but she could of been cut by Bioware. Also, having a thief as a squadmate? What good is a thief? Weak, useless, able to raid the cargo hold. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  21:36, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

- Geez, all this talk about a "Kasumi" makes me mixed up with the redhead one from the DOA series. Not that it's gonna happen, but I'm hoping she bears at least a fleeting resemblance to the aforementioned DOA character. If there's a paramour achievement for her, I'm pretty sure the romance will get crazy somehow, because the craziest & wackiest love antics always happen with anime inspired characters anyway. Ploxis 00:27, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Read 'em and weep. If BioWare's going to reveal more about Kasumi at a later date, she can't be just a cutting floor scrap.164.107.237.68

Where on that site does it say any kind of confirmation about Kasumi? All I see is a link to a thread from 11 days ago where Bioware locked a thread saying "spoiler (whether this is true or false)" which completely has no confirmation that it's true from Bioware by saying that, spoilers can be present elsewhere in that thread, and could be why it was locked, because it's in a "No spoilers allowed" forum, which in my mind can be in reference to Garrus, Grunt, and Morinth being on that screenshot list, because it'd be a spoiler that Arcangel is Garrus, and that Morinth is an obtainable character, not so much Grunt, but your dossier never sent you to get Grunt, it was sending you for Okeer, who also doesn't show on the list, meaning it'd be spoiler that you can't get Okeer. So, no, I don't see that thread being proof of Kasumi at all, if anything since they said "if true or false" that means that 1. That Bioware employee doesn't even know if Kasumi will be real. 2. Kasumi is not really planned to be a character, and it's a Bioware hoax. Also was the mentioned redhead from DOA Leliana that you mean? If so, maybe it's good to add her since it may open up a bi option for Female Shepard, but I doubt it, since they took away Jack who really seems to be a romance option for Female Shepard through chatting, till she shoots you down. Jaline 03:21, February 5, 2010 (UTC)


 * *Update* Apparently some time during the night (I’m U.K based by the way) the team running the Bioware feed during last nights NFC Championship mentioned that more information will be coming eventually if one of the more prominent members of the Bioware forums is to be believed. "Well just now in the Live Chat the guy with Chris said that info on Kasumi will be revealed at a later date." From that article, at the bottom. I had thought you would see that. I never said Kasumi was a confirmed character, just that if BioWare is going to reveal more about her at a later date, then she can't be only cut content.164.107.236.22 21:47, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even with BioWare revealing more later, she could still be cut content, or that could be her in "original" concept. Names, looks and the like all have the potential to change. Also, BioWare revealing cut content can still be considered a spoiler if her existence is false, because it is still info about the game.--Xaero Dumort 02:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

- Nah, I didn't mean that. You're thinking DAO (Dragon Age: Origins). I meant Kasumi, the redhead from the DOA (Dead or Alive) series. Ploxis 05:08, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I think someone, Kasumi or not, is going to be coming. Port (or is it starboard? :p) Observation is always vacant. Matt 2108 02:55, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, okay, I read wrong Ploxis, thanks for clearing that up. Also yeah Matt 2108, I certainly believe there will be another DLC character, as to the right of Jack is completely empty, the same way the left side is if you don't have Zaeed DLC, however, my problem with Kasumi is that she doesn't FIT in the ME Universe at all, and it seems that anyone wanting her in, is wanting her in because she looks cool or reminds them of anime, I see no good reason to have Kasumi in the game yet, I'd rather have Blasto (I say that in a way where I know Blasto won't be playable, but that Blasto makes MUCH more sense in the universe than Kasumi does, Kasumi doesn't even have a confirmed race because you barely see her face at all, and looks like a crazy combination of human and quarian.) Give me a good reason to believe that Kasumi would be a useful addition to the ME Universe, and I may change my mind, but she has no place in the universe, which means to me, that it'd be a bad choice to add her, it's a good chance she's cut material, to the person below, who claims they saw it, it wouldn't matter if that list of names was in August if Kasumi was cut sometime between August and January right? Jaline 03:25, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how you can say she doesn't fit in the universe when we know really nothing about her. People were saying the same thing about Jack after her first video. and I think she turned out to be one of BioWare's best characters. I just wouldn't jump to conclusions, that's all. Matt 2108 03:57, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm going by what we do "know" about Kasumi, and by that, I mean the dossier in the picture that was put up, the ingame mention of Kasumi on the news, and her look. What we "know" about Kasumi, is that she's a thief, and her clothing matches that, in such a way that she looks familiar to fantasy style thief/rogue type characters by the way she dresses. My biggest problem with this, is that melee obviously doesn't work in ME universe very well, there's close up combat, and physical things like smashing into enemies, or smacking them, but we don't have weapons like daggers or short swords that would reflect the type of character she looks like, and fits with the "thief" classification. The problem also is, in ME2, *everyone* is a thief, there is no electronics type skills, there is instead bypass and hack mini-games, how would a "thief" squadmate help out a soldier Shepard who knows how to bypass every electronic lock anyways, even though they're soldiers, not engineers or tech people? Also there are enough tech characters already in the game, Mordin has cryo/incinerate, Miranda/Garrus both have Overload, Tali/Legion both have AI hack/combat drone already, the issue is, what skills would Kasumi even have? Does she look like a sniper? Do we really need another character who is a sniper when we have Garrus, Legion, Thane, and Zaeed already? Does she look biotic, to me she doesn't, but in that respect we have Jack, Samara, and Morinth as pure biotics, and plenty of hybrid biotics already.. Does she look like she'd use an assault rifle? Not to me, so she's left with SMG/Pistol as her weapons, perhaps maybe Shotgun, but I'd think they'd be too cumbersome for her... So if she's using SMG/Pistol, what type of skills is she using? Is she a freak hybrid who has things such as Charge and Tactical Cloak, allowing her to be "stealthed" and "get into close up fighting"? You look comparatively at other characters in ME, and you can kinda tell what they're about... I look at Kasumi, and I see a lame attempt to make a mass effect ninja.. (Which Thane already fits more than well enough!) Jaline 04:16, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well, to me, how she fits in from a combat perspective is irrelavant. If BioWare feels the character fits the universe, then it probably does. Matt 2108 05:02, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to make a quick note that out-right denials tend to come back and bite people in the butt, just saying. :p

On a more serious note, since she's actually mentioned ingame then the article should stay. And with evidence being placed within the files, that should stay as well. Outright deleting the page wouldn't accomplish anything other than deleting a page for a(so far minor) Mass Effect character. Maybe the files mention should just be placed in a seperate section and marked as possible cut content, but a delete is unnesscary.CloudT 18:11, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it should be deleted, since she is mentioned on news reports in game, but it shouldn't be treated as if it's a certainty that she'll be a future DLC, there's a dossier listing down there on the article page, and it also talks about what is essentially editing game files, which could lead to people breaking their game if they edited files without knowing what they were doing, I don't see why a wiki would state something like: "Editing the coalesced.ini file for Mass Effect 2 has revealed that she will most likely be included as a future DLC." in the article. I'm also wondering where someone came up with this: "She appears to be an engineer type class with AI Hacking and Overload as her primary abilities." The screenshots only show Jacob's ability screen, and in there it shows Jacob's skills, not AI Hacking/Overload. I'm removing these mentions until someone has a credible source stating her class and abilities. Jaline 18:22, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Kasumi's data files POINT TO THE DLC FOLDER! The picture with the Kasumi error proves this. I see no warrant for deletion as the foundation for her as DLC is clearly evident. Sp8cemonkey83 19:19, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

As mentioned a few times, the factor of finding files that relate to Kasumi don't really stand as clear evidence that she *will* be a DLC, there's high chances that she was cut, and simply her files were not removed, there's no "word" for Bioware as to if she actually will be a DLC, if there was, we'd likely see a trailer for her, some heavier and clearer information, etc, as it is now, Bioware won't confirm or deny if Kasumi is meant to be a future DLC, or was a previous idea that they scrapped. We know that the hammerhead is meant to be a future DLC, we know this because they've said this. They have not said that Kasumi is to be a future DLC. Consider this, they have room for one last ally on the squad selection screen, unless they completely overhaul that screen, they'll only be able to add one more squad member through DLC. This means they will likely be careful upon their choice of what character they would like to add, and it may even be *many* months until they actually add a new DLC character, as a means of spreading out content. If it is months away that we'll even hear a word about who the DLC character will be, speculation is not fact. "Clear Evidence" Is actual officially supported word from Bioware saying "Yes, Kasumi will be future DLC content, here's a little bit of information for you to know about her before we release her in 2 months from now" Something like that comes around, and I'll say yeah, she's certainly a future Squad member, however without that it's all rumors, bad images, and fuzzy details. I don't see a reason for the page to be deleted, since it is a character mentioned on the radio, there's a page for Blasto afterall. Jaline 19:42, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

"there's high chances that she was cut" --- I disagree with the fact that she was cut from the MAIN GAME. BioWare may decide to scrap Kasumi at any point... but from the error message photo, it's clear that her content is DESIGNED to be loaded from the DLC folder. Also, I've been decoding the .afc audio files from the game and Kasumi does have quite a bit more audio clips then what I was expecting to find. Still not proof that she WON'T be scrapped but wasting all of her audio commentary is a bit costly don't you think? They had to pay money for the VA to recite those lines, waste of money if she gets cut. Sp8cemonkey83 20:22, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

I see absolutely no reason to delete this wiki page as her files are not only already in-game, but she is referenced in audio. What is the deletion rationale here? Phfor 21:57, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Because AFAIK, there is no confirmation on whether this 'Kasumi' will be in the game. She could be a deleted character or if not, undergo a name change. Until Bioware says; "Yes, there a 'Kasumi' and she will be DLC sometime in the future" then a page on her should not exist. I think it's silly to have a page where the only details we have are a name and speculation. Vegnas 22:11, February 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * But she's still mentioned ingame, thus the article should stay. If she was just in the files only, I could understand this being deleted, but news reports mention her.CloudT 23:16, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, well, that's a bit different and in my opinion is far more valuable than all than all the circumstantial evidence. In fact, if the article creator had mentioned that then I wouldn't have been so quick to put it up for deletion. In regards to Kasumi herself, I immediately thought of Yuffie from Final Fantasy 7. ME2 seems less realistic than ME anyhow, what with Jack fighting practically topless, at least they wore armor in ME. So the 'fitting in' issue doesn't phase me. Vegnas 23:30, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Don't know if this is true, but this guy has apparently got sound clips of this Kasumi, a few of it anyways.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNumDS_jHb0 Shadowhawk27 01:30, February 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * I can confirm these sound clips are in the game. They exist in compressed .AFC files in the CookedPC folder. Sp8cemonkey83 02:03, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I have an issue with that voice, and that is... well, it totally doesn't sound quite right, true, we have no proper idea of what Kasumi should sound like, however for most characters in game settings, you can look at the character, and try to picture a voice, like with Zaeed for example, without ever hearing him, you could look at a picture of him, and think, hrmm, he looks like a battle hardened older guy, probably a rough deeper voice, but he doesn't look as if he'll be 100% serious sounding ALL the time either. And that's a kinda proper description.. Tali, you can imagine her having an accent, perhaps a mechanical tone of some sort to it, and yeah that fits. Thane you can look at and think, well perhaps he has a bit of a fishy voice, he looks kinda like a fish, oh, he's a lizard? Interesting, looks more like a fish.. and well, his voice does have a watery, gargling tone to it... My point is, that those files don't even seem... well, they don't seem complete, they could simply be a woman who works for Bioware, who, if they came up with Kasumi as a joke, they just had her do a few lines.

ALSO Explain to me, why would a DLC character be using audio files that were added during regular installation? It would make more sense for a DLC character to be using audio files that were downloaded during that character's DLC download process, no? Those files also seem to only be "idle chatter" type audio files, meaning the things she would say if she were on the Citadel, or Illium, or Tuchanka, or Omega, you know how there's the "Talk to Garrus" type thing that pops up in the hub worlds, those are what I'm talking about. It's not as if you've got audio files that would play when you meet her, talking about her story, and how she joins you etc...

Also, one big consideration that just came to my mind when listening to those... How do we know she'd really be a character that would join you? For all we know, she could simply be a character who is involved in a line of city missions that is involved in a future DLC. Example: It starts in the Citadel, Captain Bailey mentions to you that there has been a bit of a problem lately with a thief (Kasumi) who has been stealing things (he'll list a number of things), and Shepard takes it upon themselves to go find out who's responsible, within that, they end up finding Kasumi, who they end up having to chase, from the Citadel, say she goes to Illium, and the audio files that have been found, they can simply be a small thing like if you chat to her before that part of the mission is active, she'll give you some flavor chat. Anyways, you then go to Illium, chase her more, she escapes and makes her way to Omega. There's no necessity that Kasumi would join you at the end of this mission line, it could simply be a mission such as this... True that it could be considered a bit of a stretch saying all of this, however, it's no more of a stretch than people saying she's ABSOLUTELY a future DLC character that joins your squad. Jaline 17:16, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

The answer to your question why DLC files would be part of the base installation. Is because they budgeted their DLC audio budget during normal production. Because the Voice actor(ess) in question may have had timing issues if it was done later do to other commitments. And its rather routine to include functionality to be used later in the base game. Saves on download sizes and such. That is just for starters. Shadowhawk27 14:08, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

No answer to the thoughts that she could simply be part of a mission line added through the dlc eh? She HAS to be a squad member in your mind? Also yea, I've seen the pictures of Kasumi supposedly on the squad window, however they place her dossier in any spot they wish to, which means you could just as easily take a picture of Blasto, write up a dossier, and place him in whatever spot you want, use Blasto instead of Jacob. And really, there's always files in games that they intended to use, but never ended up making it to the final cut. If she's called a squad member by Bioware in the future, there's no problem here, but until Bioware says so, I don't see why people hang on as if she is one. If you're so badly wanting Kasumi as a squad member, and she ends up not being one, you may be disappointed, I don't really care for her to be a squad member, but if Bioware says she will be, I won't be disappointed. Just feels like setting yourself up for disappointment, and trying to push Kasumi as if she was already set in stone, which she's not. Jaline 19:14, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Well i found some more interesting future DLC on this site. http://www.xbox360achievements.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2767218&postcount=1|source Shadowhawk27 13:07, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

@Jaline

I was there in Germany when I saw that list of names LAST August. Check the article it links from for more details.

Why the Delete Tag?
I would like to ask the editor who attached the delete tag to identify any individual named in any news report that does not have a page somewhere in this Wiki. If unable then the editor should explain why Kasumi, mentioned more than once and in 2 locations, deserves to be the first discarded accordingly. Many thanks to those who shed some early light on what could become an intriguing new character. --Phiont 06:21, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I did. It just seems very probable that she was cut content or will be scrapped by BioWare. Why would you need a theif as a squadmate? What could she do in the final mission? What good can a theif do? Also, on the page she was on, it was locked with: spoilers (wether true or false), which is probable that it is a joke by BioWare. THIS IS ALL A BIG JOKE MADE BY THEM. And above, the video with her 'audio files' could of been just anybody. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  06:44, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, in answer to Phiont, RE the challenge "to identify any individual named in any news report that does not have a page somewhere in this Wiki", here's an answer. Francis Kitt. I answered it! Can we delete this page now? Because according to your post, all I had to do was answer that and then I wouldn't need to explain why this page deserves to be deleted! Yay! :P SpartHawg948 06:54, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Although I couldn't think of anyone myself, I thought it would be useful to come up with at least one example of someone mentioned in the news who didn't get their own page. Thank you for the answering, albeit on behalf of the editor who attached the delete tag. --Phiont 11:44, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I was the original editor who attached the delete tag. My reasons are listed above but also: Having a dossier and character box for a person briefly mentioned and never seen in game is a bit much. For the record, I'm not saying she doesn't exist or whatnot, I'm just thinking all of this seems a little premature. As for why we need a thief; its the same reason why Jack doesn't need a shirt and why Miranda's ass is the way it is, why Garrus never fixes his armor, etc. It's just neat. Vegnas 07:10, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whether or not she's cut content or future DLC is kind of irrelevant, which is good since it's impossible to know one way or another at present. There's no good reason not to have an article, provided the body of the article is restricted to actual currently-in-game information (i.e. the news bulletins). Everything else from the game files should be noted without editorializing: altering the game files reveals a picture, a dossier, and some sound files. That's it. We can't really draw any conclusions one way or another from that alone. However, there are *lots* of people searching for information on her. It would be kind of irresponsible to either delete the article (leaving nothing) or make unsupported claims as to whether she's cut content or future DLC. Let's present what we have and let people draw their own conclusions.--Hardvice 09:00, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Can't really argue with that! :) SpartHawg948 10:52, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree with Hardvice. I only found this article because I heard the name mentioned ingame a few times. It seemed conspicuous, especially given that the person is a notorious criminal and not just the director of some play. Perhaps the article should be cleaned up so that speculative info and details pulled out of game files (codex image included) should appear under a Notes or Trivia heading until officially announced. Oh, and if anyone ever manages to find a codex image for Francis Kitt then he should get his own page too. ;) --Phiont 11:44, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

By the way, Kasumi's codex image is very much how I imagine Tali may appear unmasked. Food for thought. --Phiont 14:35, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * So, since you admit I found someone who met the requirements of your challenge, can we delete the page now? :P SpartHawg948 23:40, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It wasn't a challenge as I've already tried to explain above. It was a request. Thanks again for the help. --Phiont 01:30, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, in as much as it was "a demand to explain, justify," in that you "requested" information to explain/justify the request to delete, it was a challenge. ("a demand to explain, justify," being a definition of the word 'challenge', and being the definition intended by myself when I used it). Also, must have missed the explanation "above", as the one immediately preceding this was the only time I saw you say it wasn't a challenge (even though, as demonstrated, it was. Challenge, of course, has multiple meanings). Also, no problem! Happy to help! It is, after all, my job! SpartHawg948 01:47, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * SpartHawg948, please stop pretending to quote statements that I did not make. Nowhere did I "demand" anything. I'm sorry if you read my request to the relevant editor as a challenge. As I've already explained, it was not intended as such. Thank you again for responding and sorry if this has upset you. --Phiont 02:24, February 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * It hasn't upset me, although I would like to see an example of one of these times where I "quote statements that I did not make" (I here of course referring to you). I quoted the definition of challenge, and showed how your request was (by the very definition of the word) a challenge. I also pointed out that I hadn't seen the explanation you claimed to have previously made that it wasn't a challenge. So while you are supplying an example of me putting words in your mouth, maybe also supply that quote? Please and Thanks, SpartHawg948 23:34, February 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, without seeing an outside source referenced I did not realise you were quoting a dictionary definition. Perhaps it would have been more helpful to provide some definition relating the words request and challenge instead of the words demand and challenge if that's what you were actually trying to show. By the way, in your first reply to me you said "...according to your post, all I had to do was answer that and then I wouldn't need to explain why this page deserves to be deleted!" According to which post did I say anything like that? Or was that just a case of putting words in my mouth? --Phiont 05:13, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you definitely said it, and in the very first post of this (ie 'Why the Delete Tag?') thread. "I would like to ask the editor who attached the delete tag to identify any individual named in any news report that does not have a page somewhere in this Wiki. If unable then the editor should explain why Kasumi, mentioned more than once and in 2 locations, deserves to be the first discarded accordingly." You asked the editor in question (who, in all fairness, was not me) to identify an individual named in a news report who didn't have a page. If unable to do so, said user was to explain why Kasumi deserved to be deleted. I provided the name of an individual named in a news report, thereby, according to your post, negating the need for any explanation of why this needs to be deleted. Exactly like I said. It's all right there in your post. And while I didn't state specifically that I was using a dictionary definition of "challenge", I did state ""a demand to explain, justify," being a definition of the word 'challenge'", making it obvious I was using the definition of the word challenge. Again, it's all right there. SpartHawg948 05:51, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * You're logic escapes me. I requested that deletion be explained if a particular precedent can't be found. How is that the same thing as claiming deletion requires no explanation if precedent can be found? You even went a step further by claiming that my request meant finding precedent is "all" you'd have to do to delete the page without explanation. You can't be serious, but just in case you are perhaps this will help. Like many others, I came to this page to raise an issue that I believed was worth considering in the greater deletion question. Replying with a good example precedent as you did was what we might expect from consciencious Wikia admin. Absurdly twisting someone's comment inside out just to throw back in their face was not. --Phiont 09:26, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * There wasn't much logic involved at first, seeing as it was a joke, and clearly meant in jest. You stated that no reason need be given for the deletion if precedent wasn't found. I found said precedent, and said (again, in jest, hence the playful tone, the 'Yay!', and the :P) that now it looked like no explanation was needed for deletion, as that is what you yourself had stated. Of course I'm not going to delete an article over something that frivolous. Maybe if you had taken a minute or two to peruse my commentary on pages up for deletion, instead of questioning my conscientiousness, you'd have known I do not take deleting pages lightly. You then asked me to back up my claim that "according to your post, all I had to do was answer that and then I wouldn't need to explain why this page deserves to be deleted!", which I did by producing your quote, " identify any individual named in any news report that does not have a page somewhere in this Wiki. If unable then the editor should explain why Kasumi, mentioned more than once and in 2 locations, deserves to be the first discarded accordingly." Ask and ye shall receive! Now, confronted with a comment you made that's practically a verbatim copy of my interpretation, you take something I said in jest and try to make my look like an un'consciencious[sic]' admin. Nice. Lighten up. SpartHawg948 09:40, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * In your 2nd last post you tried to defend a remark that you now claim was a joke, but before I get a chance to laugh you turn around again and defend that same remark all over again. And now I was now expected to judge your replies in this thread on the basis of your actions elsewhere? "Jane! Stop this crazy thing!!" :p --Phiont 21:09, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, I stated that my first comment was a joke. It was clearly intended as such, there was no "claiming" about it. I mean, isn't that the entire point of emotes (such as :P)? To indicate emotion and context so as to allow other readers to judge how the comment is meant to be interpreted? It's not my fault if you missed these blatantly obvious indicators. In my 2nd to last post, I defended a comment I made later, in response to you asking "According to which post did I say anything like that? Or was that just a case of putting words in my mouth?" I defended my remark when you asked my to defend my remark. What can I say? It's what I do. As for whether or not you are "expected to judge your replies in this thread on the basis of your actions elsewhere?", no, you're expected to do nothing of the sort, but it would be nice if you actually look around and attempt to learn a little more before summarily dismissing me as un-conscientious. I never make assumptions like that about people without doing at least a little bit of research, and it would be nice to be shown the same courtesy. SpartHawg948 21:23, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lighten up already! Unless your name really just happens to be Jane. lol --Phiont 21:32, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was just answering some comments you made in your last post that I felt needed to be answered. And, as a quick consult of my user page will show, my name is, in fact, not Jane. It's Will. As for the 'stop this crazy thing', I had no idea what that meant, so I could hardly be expected to know it meant you wanted to stop discussing this. I would have settled for a "sorry for implying you aren't a conscientious admin' (since it's plainly evident I work my you-know-what off trying to improve this site) 'so let's just call this settled'. But whatever. As the philosopher Jagger once said, "You can't always get what you want." SpartHawg948 21:37, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Damn, I feel so old. --Phiont 22:11, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey now, in all fairness, the band I referenced precedes the cartoon you referenced by a year! (and the particular individual I referenced precedes The Jetsons by two decades! Talk about decrepit...) :P SpartHawg948 22:25, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

I don't know if it's just me, but even though

Real Confirmation Only Please
As the headline says, please only submit links to a REAL confirmation of Kasumi, I un-did the edit to the page that included a link to tehpwnage because it is actually an article that was put up BEFORE Mass Effect 2 was even released, and because it shows absolutely no Bioware confirmation, please leave these sort of 3rd party "Confirmations" out. Jaline 01:31, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

I also want to point out, that the site was "confirming" a 12th character of Kasumi, however the 12th character officially is Zaeed, not Kasumi, the page that was in the link was NOT counting Morinth, therefore it had BAD information. Jaline 01:41, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your argument makes no sense. No one knew about Morinth being a squad mate until the game came out. It's unsurprising that they didn't factor Morinth into their count, how could they have known ahead of time? Also, last I checked, game website preview articles aren't all written by game developers, and old articles aren't automatically irrelevant. You've got a weird definition of "real confirmation". Lastly, to be honest, capitalizing words you want to emphasize doesn't really win people over to your views, it comes off as pushy and arrogant. 164.107.236.43 21:06, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

"Real confirmation" would be something like how we know the Hammerhead will be a DLC content available in the future, and how we knew slightly in advance of the new shotgun and cerberus armor. As it is now, there is no confirmation from Bioware that Kasumi will be a DLC. Also, of course Morinth didn't factor in, that was my exact point, they said that they "knew who the 12th character was", when the game wasn't even officially released yet, do you not see the problem there? It is irrelevant, because the 12th character wasn't to be Kasumi, and when someone puts something up on a wiki saying "Here this link proves what I'm saying!" when it doesn't, is bad information. Jaline 23:11, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Jaline is not being arrogant. Jaline is just stating the facts, and I agree. We need REAL confirmation, NOT bad information. And like I stated above, I'm not believing any of this 'till I see some hard proof. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  18:03, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmation?
Is this really confirmed? It seems like the reference links to the same article that was discussed already. --Spoo12 22:52, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmation or no confirmation.... I can't advocate for either side because there is not enough info. Keep in mind that Bioware initially did NOT confirm Zaeed as DLC, so this could be the same situation. Secondly, On the 3rd floor of the Normandy, Samara is positioned on the Starboard Observation Deck, while the Port Observation Deck is inaccessible, and I don't mean a red square on the door denying you access, I mean that there is absolutely no way to get inside there. I remember I looked around the Normandy before I downloaded Zaeed and the area where he is (4th floor, Starboard Cargo) was permanently inaccessible until I got Zaeed. Lastly, this "permanently locked" door could coincide with another "easter egg" in the game. If you look at the elevator menu on the Normandy, and look at the 4th floor engineering deck menu, it CLEARLY says "Hammerhead Garage" which also is where the shuttle is stored. The hammerhead hasn't been released yet. I believe that when Bioware designed the Normandy SR-2 for the game, they designed it with the knowledge that they will have AT LEAST two DLC characters and one DLC vehicle available for download. This is the same situation as what Ubisoft did for Assassin's Creed 2 (Game has 14 memory sequences, but #12 and #13 are inaccessible unless those 2 DLC's are downloaded: they built the game with that in mind). H-Man Havoc 20:19, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

The Port Observation Deck is where Kasumi is stationed. Using the saved game editor, or editing the saved game directly, adding Kasumi to your crew will open the door. There's nothing there at the moment besides open space. --HarroSIN 18:46, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

There's no confirmation that Kasumi is even a DLC! LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  01:56, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

H-Man Havoc is correct. Most computer games these days are programmed with future DLC in mind. Mass Effect 2 is pretty modular in design, but still needs some basic framework. Direct, quotable confirmation may not have come from BioWare themselves, but all logic points towards Kasumi as a second downloadable character. Most preliminary voice acting has been completed for Kasumi and is audible in-game, and for other characters who acknowledge her existence as well, including Shepard (male and female) and Joker. Ditto for some of her GUI and HUD artwork. The game even complains when trying to include her in your party: "You are using Kasumi without DLC_HEN_MT installed." If you would like some basic visual proof, I've taken the liberty of recording a video of her placeholder model in action: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z9HM6DD7QH8 --HarroSIN 04:04, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNumDS_jHb0 > this has sound clips of her voice and shows her in the charcter menu

That's only a placeholder, for all we know, she could of been cut and they kept her files in-game. I need actual proof from Bioware, not some video. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  11:21, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

The video, aside from a cutscene, also shows Kasumi in gameplay.... not agreeing or disagreeing here, but all I know is that according to several interviews with Casey Hudson and Ray Muzika before ME2's release, that there will be more gameplay DLCs than in ME1. H-Man Havoc 14:02, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I posted this on Something Awful yesterday afternoon with some screens, the video was made by somebody else. I could not believe it actually worked, and it is definitive proof that in her current form, Kasumi is meant to be a squad member but does not have all of the files present to make her work in active capacity during gameplay. She only works in a cutscene/background role in the suicide mission. I will give you that there has been no official confirmation OR denial from Bioware yet about her status as future DLC, although the fact that the game looks for an installation with "DLC" right in the title when trying to use her is pretty interesting. So as far as the article goes, it should stay as it is until further definitive information is made available. However, I don't think you can blame people for getting excited as the evidence starts to mount that we might get another character to play with, and even if she was cut content, it could be a situation like Shale from Dragon Age where they can clean it up (obvious placeholder on selection screen, and hopefully a less "generic" in-game model) and make her usable. The fans certainly seem to want her in the game now if they weren't planning on it before. Dr. Abysmal 16:54, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I have removed the link to the OLC reference because the video in question is no longer available to be seen on Youtube. With a message: "This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by EA." In my opinion, if EA does NOT want us to see this, that means that they do NOT want us to speculate if Kasumi is a future squad member or not. The fact that EA claimed a copyright infringement due to the video being posted around could simply mean that they don't support the fans editing the files in this way, to bring something like this up. This is still not a confirmation or a denial of her existing, simply a "True or false, we're not commenting yet" so no, this isn't a confirmation, I agree, we need a REAL confirmation before calling her true, and since the video in the article that is obviously such a huge part of the article on OLC, is no longer there due to copyright infringement claim by EA, I don't think that we rightfully should have a link calling to that article. Jaline 22:20, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Seems as if my video has been shot down by Electronic Arts. Well, that's about all I can do. Jaline is right about EA not wanting the public to see the contents of the clip just yet. Whether the next downloadable squadmate will be Kasumi or Blasto (lol), time will tell. --HarroSIN 23:18, February 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I still think all of you are wrong. It isn't going to be Kasumi OR Blasto. Instead, the next downloadable squadmate will be... elcor Hamlet! Followed shortly thereafter by Barla Von (c'mon! who doesn't want a funny little volus following you around?) :P SpartHawg948 23:20, February 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Insincere endorsement: You have not experienced Mass Effect DLC until you have played it for 14 hours it in the voice of elcor. --Lilliful 23:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I would personally prefer Harrot myself, elcor with a cigar!!! And if we had a volus squadmate, I'd prefer to have Niftu Cal, c'mon who wouldn't want a biotic god! Jaline 00:33, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * But I sent him teetering off to his death on my first playthrough! Does that mean he can't be my squadmate now? Boo! :( SpartHawg948 01:02, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Not like he'd be the only squadmate in ME2 who can die right?! Think about him as the tech person going through the vents, he wouldn't be able to fit! Jaline 01:44, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is an excellent point. And while it is true that his girth would hinder him in some places, his short stature might actually work to your advantage in others. Although the thought of him firing a shotgun is... well, to quote Cleveland from Family Guy, it's "the height of just-too-muchery!" :) SpartHawg948 01:57, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Kasumi, well clearly she can fill the Tech role, so I am expecting Tech abilities. I'd think she will be similiar to Thane in contribution for the Line. I do hope she has full character dialogue on the Normandy, even if it is only 1-2 sections. I loved Zaeed's story, but his Normandy presence made him feel like he was tacked on to the game. Nice Loyalty Mission, but man he felt like scenary on the Normandy. As Dr. Chakwas puts it, "This is all just wild speculation." But i do look forward to the Hammerhead Tank. Shadowhawk27 22:25, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

It turns out that this Kasumi can be killed in the final mission abord the Collector base and here's the proof at 6:00. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSREnz_MOqg Shadowhawk27 01:32, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I feel like I have to point out a very important factor here... One video shows Kasumi dying, another video shows Kasumi living, both in the tech job spot. However there is NO Loyalty mission for Kasumi, and there would be no way to do it before bringing her along. So I have the feeling there's some editing going on around here that isn't right. If you have a tech expert who is loyal, they can do the mission, so how does Kasumi do the mission without being loyal and stay alive in one video? And then in another video she's killed off on the same job? This doesn't sit right, I don't know if it's just me, but I need a second opinion on this from someone like SpartHawg948. It feels to me, like people are just editing files around and throwing Kasumi into a slot of someone else in the party and we're seeing what would instead happen to that character and not Kasumi. It smells super fishy, and I don't like that the only things we're seeing is user-edited videos by people who want Kasumi so badly (I don't even understand WHY people want her so badly, it's like they are dreamin over her. And the d in dreamin wasn't the first letter I wanted to put there.) I also want to point out, that even though she's got some supposed lines and such during these videos, that it's NOT confirmation of her becoming a character, it could, again, be a scrapped character, also the fact that Kasumi's supposed character model and her in-game model are so wildly different is not helping the "Kasumi exists!" argument. Jaline 02:40, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, her dying in one vid and living in another is perfectly plausible. Remember that the survival of the specialist depends on both him/her and the fire team leader. So, if she lived in one vid that means she's good for the job, and that in this one Garrus was (presumably) not loyal and got her killed. Prismvg 21:55, February 28, 2010 (UTC)

There quite possibly is a loyalty mission for Kasumi should she exist, because that scene has 2 endings, a death and a living ending. One thing that troubles me though, if Kasumi was a cut character, then why would Bioware have gone through all the trouble to design and animate her, get a voice actor for her, and put her into the game only to be dropped from the final release version? It would be more reasonable to drop a character if he/she was just a concept drawing or a prototype for another eventual character in the game, but it makes no sense to drop a fully-developed character. H-Man Havoc 15:41, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

H-Man Havoc, my point is: There is no CURRENTLY AVAILABLE (key phrase) Loyalty mission for Kasumi, if Tali or Legion aren't loyal, they'll die at the door the same way Kasumi did here, so *how* could Kasumi on one person's play actually have lived if she has *no* loyalty mission currently available?! The loyalty mission if she will be a character would be involved with the DLC, and reportedly people have only been able to add Kasumi to their group directly before the suicide mission, meaning they'd have 0 time to do any sort of missions aside from the suicide with Kasumi. I wouldn't have an issue here if Kasumi stayed alive in all videos about it, but to die in a video and live in the other, that doesn't make ANY sense. Jaline 00:56, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Jaline: Kasumi's loyalty status can be toggled on and off by editing a saved game file, regardless if you actually complete the mission or not. This also goes for any squad member. --HarroSIN 05:41, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Makes more sense, however I still don't like how people treat editing files to how they see fit, as backing their views 100% There is a lot being found out that makes it sound as if Kasumi will be a future DLC, but it amazes me that most people are not only accepting it so easily, but in fact attempting to *push* it upon a page that is supposed to have good and confirmed information, as it is there's only a few people it seems who actually agree that Bioware needs to say "yes she is, or no she isn't" before any information is considered 100% guaranteed, and simply want to say "She is, because I SAY SHE IS!!" and feel the need to continually edit her page to add her under characters in the game or as a DLC without anything backing them up from Bioware. Jaline 07:56, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

This interview has the top dogs at Bioware confirming that they're prepping another character as future DLC. Whether or not this character is Kasumi is a completely different story. Note that the pertinent segment of the show takes place in Chapter 4 and is mostly about the Hammerhead. Also, I had to watch it in IE since Firefox choked on the stream. Derint 04:58, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

First time for everything...
This may be the first time in the history of this wiki (and I've been here for the duration, so I'd remember!) that someone has taken a statement by someone at BioWare along the lines of "this rumor is either true or false" to mean "This is true, my statement should be taken as confirmation". So I guess now any time that someone says something may or may not be true, we should just opt for the former? Disregard completely the latter? If you want to state in the article that BioWare has confirmed this as the second DLC, get a source that actually says "BioWare has confirmed this as the second DLC", not one based off "well she said 'spoiler (whether true or false' and when has a spoiler ever been false?". Ummm, I can think of a few times, guys. SpartHawg948 23:09, February 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Shouldn't this article contain a notice that the page contain information not approved or supported by BioWare (or something along this line)? --silverstrike 15:30, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

That is actually a very very good suggestion, and perhaps SpartHawg948 could comment about possibly putting something like that in. However on another side, I think it may hurt, as some people will be trying to add *every* little bad information bit about Kasumi, since there is that disclaimer there, they could try saying "But it's just gathering info!" I don't mind gathering info here in the talk area, but the Article area isn't a place for bad information like what keeps being added to her page. Jaline 02:46, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the agreement on this issue, personally I would have liked the reference link, and speculation on her article about her "possibly being a dlc" removed, but since you made some changes just recently, and kept them in there, I won't change your edits. That sort of stuff is more for the talk area we have here, not the article page in my opinion, but you know what they say about opinions I guess. Jaline 23:14, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

I reckon this page shouldn't be deleted
I think it's fairly obvious that Bioware intends to release another DLC squadmember by just looking at the Squad Selection scene. When Zaeed was added, they slotted him in on the left, leaving a sizeable and empty space on the right. If Bioware didn't intend to add any more squadmembers, why didn't they just re-center the squad selection choices, and make the screen 'symetrical' again? They wouldn't have just left that space blank because they were lazy, or for the hell of it.

Plus, Kasumi is the only character (that I know of) not seen in the game who still has files that refer to her, and were intended to be for her character to use. While that doesn't explicitly mean that she WILL be a character, it certainly makes it more likely than not. Half of the work is already there, so it's easier than recording and programming an entirely new character from scratch.

Personally, I think she was intended to be in the original game, but time constraints meant that they were unable to finish her in time for the release date. Rather than scrapping the work they already had, they left it in there so they could complete it later, as DLC, hence the reference to the DLC folder. This has happened before with other games, in particular the Left 4 Dead series (I know that the developers are different, but the principle is the same). The first game was supposed to have an extra campaign between two that were in the game. Eventually, they finished off the campaign as DLC and released it later. In number two, there was a specific enemy refered to as the 'Fallen Survivor', which didn't appear once throughout the game. The enemy has now been revealed as an enemy in an upcoming DLC.

There's also something like this with 'Archangel's' recruitment mission. Legion, Samara, Tali and Thane all have specific dialogue in response, despite them not even being possible squadmates at that point in the game (pretty ironically, Miranda doesn't have any dialogue at all)

As for the 'suspicious' picture for her Dossier entry, they could have just used concept art as a placeholder. It wouldn't be normally accessible, so why worry about how it looks? Admittedly that works both ways: Why would they need to have a placeholder in the first place if it wasn't supposed to be accessible.

Still, what does it hurt to have the information here? Does this wiki have a 'No cut content' policy? That's the only justified reason I've seen for the page to be considered for deletion.


 * Ummm... okayyyy... This page was removed from consideration for deletion two weeks ago! :P SpartHawg948 15:19, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Be that as it may, i'm just trying to give hope that Kasumi is NOT just cut content SuicidalSkydiver (talk) 15:53, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's all fine and good, but if that's all you want to say, say it! Don't phrase it like an appeal to save the page from deletion... when no such discussion about deletion is ongoing! :P SpartHawg948 22:17, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * OK FINE I ADMIT IT. I THOUGHT THE PAGE WAS STILL UP FOR DELETION, PLEASE FORGIVE ME :( SuicidalSkydiver (talk) 22:18, February 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * No worries. I just ask that people check this stuff before posting big long spiels on talk pages. It took all of 2 seconds to figure out the page wasn't up for deletion, although it did take me slightly longer to determine it hadn't been on the chopping blovk for two weeks. SpartHawg948 20:16, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Free or Not?
Someone added that "if" Kasumi is a DLC character then it will not be free. Is there a source for this? If not, how about we remove that. To me its just speculation. Omni-Tool 17:49, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Nah, no source on that, zaeed was free, so why should we have to pay for this, it's just a rumor, this s a wiki and a wiki should be based on facts, we should delete that sentence that implies that we may have to pay for it since it's just a rumor Freekkiller7 18:33, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup. The site rules concerning speculation are clear. If it concerns something unreleased (like, for example, Kasumi), any speculation needs a source. SpartHawg948 20:17, February 22, 2010 (UTC)


 * and if Zaeed was free, as well as the fact that the DLCs are exclusive to those who have the Cerberus Network, then it means that Kasumi, should be be a DLC, will almost be guaranteed free. H-Man Havoc 13:55, February 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Kasumi isn't speculation, we have her Coalesced.ini file. Which was in game. So we have proven her existence. It's not a rumor because we have visual confirmation and a .ini file. Bioware hasn't announced it but that dosent make it speculation BECAUSE WE HAVE THE FILES! --- Anonymous Coward
 * Well, we certainly don't have confirmation! There are files in the game for dialogue for Legion, back when it was not involved in the Reaper IFF mission, and was able to be recruited earlier. Game files don't really mean anything. Not until they are actually implemented. SpartHawg948 21:45, February 25, 2010 (UTC)

True,no actual confirmanation and since this is a wiki,it can't be put on unless it is a face. however given that zaeed was free kasumi will vary likely be free as well, IF she comes out.71.36.215.161 05:37, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Now that it's been confirmed that Kasumi and her DLC costs around 560 MSP, this makes it the most expensive DLC Bioware released for ME2 (barring the 1500 MSP to buy membership to Cerberus Network if a used game is purchased, and not nearly as expensive as the new Dragon Age: Awakening DLC). Bring Down the Sky and Pinnacle Station both cost 400 MSP and they were just decent, so hopefully I and others get more than our money's worth for this DLC. It better not be like Zaeed's mission, where it was so short (5 mins and the mission was done) or not too repetitive (Pinnacle Station had players do the same time trial missions 3 times each, not including the final "boss set"). It should also have its own individual loyalty mission, as Zaeed's "recruitment" mission was also the loyalty mission. Another thing, they also should release avatar items for purchase like they did with ME1. I'm thinking a Miranda, Samara, or Jack costume for the girls, as well as a Legion suit or Illusive Man suit for the guys. --H-Man Havoc 16:45, March 18, 2010 (UTC)

References in her article
Is it really right to keep putting up references that have been removed once or twice already in her article for being... Misleading? http://www.tehpwnage.com/xbox-360/news/78-mass-effect-2-kasumi-confirmed-squadmate.html was removed a couple times already, and it's made it's way back there, I don't see a reason at all to keep a completely out-dated and un-founded article still in the references. It's fine to have them linked and talked about here in the discussion page, but I don't think that articles that have no clue what they're talking about should really stay on the article page, and it's been said a number of times by a number of other people here in discussion as well that we want to keep Article pages having as little speculation as possible. As is noted too, is that articles like that, cause people to then re-edit the Article to say she's DLC as a fact, when it's not, and then people add her to DLC category and then they add any crazy pictures and assumptions they feel like.. Removing it again, and I think I've made an obvious point as to why, and hoping that people stop relying upon such misleading and bad information articles. Jaline 04:36, March 1, 2010 (UTC)

Unimportant Detail
But interesting none the less. Cut or not, she does have dialog, and in thisvideo you can see she has dialog in recruiting Samara, something a party member would obviously have. Doesn't confirm if she's cut or not, but does atleast confirm she was/is supposed to be a party member. Hopefully we'll get some confirmation from Bioware soon. CloudT 21:33, March 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * According to BioWare's heads there's going to be another DLC character eventually. See here, they mention is at some point during segment 4. Kasumi is the most likely candidate to be this new character given that most of her files are already in the game, but BioWare could surprise us with someone completely unexpected. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:21, March 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * (Crap joke about Blasto goes here)SuicidalSkydiver (talk) 23:23, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

Possible dev confirmation
Here. Proof that Kasumi is a DLC character, or too ambiguous to tell? Who knows? But I will lean on the side of cautious optimism for now. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:25, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm on the fence about this one, honestly. It is somewhat ambiguous, but at the same time, while they don't say Kasumi will be DLC, it is strongly implied. Hmmm... SpartHawg948 02:12, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed
Check it. Finally. CloudT 21:52, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

And IGN has some more details. Apparently the loyalty mission in some way involves Michelangelo's David, and occurs in a mansion surrounded by fields, a lake, and a city in the distance. I wonder if this mansion is on Earth. Makes sense, unless the David was moved off Earth at some point for some strange reason. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:24, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe a lot of players are putting in feedback on how they miss the grenades from Mass Effect, both the DLC characters have a grenade power as their loyalty power (apparently Kasumi has Flash-Bang grenades as her loyalty power). Kasumi probably has SMGs as one of her weapon proficiencies as her DLC pack gives a new SMG, I hope she does not have heavy pistol as her second weapon (I am personally hoping for assault rifle/shotgun). Poor infiltrators are so going to get the stick, their cloaking power is not unique/exclusive for them now :D CsAtlantis 01:35, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Well this pic says she's equipped with assault rifles and Sniper Rifles, http://www.tehpwnage.com/xbox-360/news/78-mass-effect-2-kasumi-confirmed-squadmate.html Shadowhawk27 03:15, March 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * That pic was posted before ME2 even came out, I doubt that's really what her weapon-set is.
 * I'm glad to get a new SMG, but I really wish a squadmate could specialize in the Revenant. I mean, Grunt has the Claymore and Legion the Widow and Kasumi might be able to get the Locust, but still only Soldier can get the Revenant? Zaeed should have had that as an upgrade.--Xaero Dumort 03:49, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

If you hack her in on the PC version, her squad selection screen information has her down for heavy pistols and submachine guns in her current form, the same loadout as Miranda and Mordin. She also does have Overload, but I'm not sure about AI Hacking since you can't spend points on her skills yet (it sounds like her second, non-loyalty power involves the infiltrator cloak). Dr. Abysmal 06:12, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Just found out the mission doesn't take place on Earth (and first images of Kasumi in-game). Interestingly, the mansion has a vault that has statues like the David and the Statue of Liberty. Must be a very big vault, unless Lady Liberty is a replica of some sort. If it's the real thing, how did it get moved off Earth? Was it disassembled and rebuilt? How did this rich guy obtain it? I must have this DLC. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:15, March 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Hmmm, Kasumi Goto?216.221.95.60 14:51, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Yay and nay. The more the merrier, I guess. Too bad she'll cost us, which is BS, so she better have more to say than Zaeed. Oh yeah, on an off-topic note, does anyone else have problems with the text editor? I can't see the bloody cursor. 80.222.44.24 17:12, March 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just want to point out, in regards to the "trivia" about GO-TO from KOTOR II, as well as the comment above, there really isn't any indication of a link. Unlike the first game, KOTOR II isn't a BioWare game, so that link doesn't exist, and there doesn't seem to be anything else to suggest any similarities between the droid GO-TO and Kasumi Goto. SpartHawg948 21:17, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Check out Kasumi's trailer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4HsvEOlNAo&feature=related Shadowhawk27 21:00, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

Release
I had no idea about this, and I don't know if it's already been said, but I need to know: when does this release? Is it already out? The Yoshiman 97 03:57, March 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think the first week of April, April 6, to be more specific, if I read correctly (can't remember where I read it). But it'll still be a while, so you'll have to be patient =P. In the meantime, I'm gonna be waiting to get my copy of Awakening for Dragon Age: Origins, and then the Firewalker DLC for ME2. (Damn you Bioware, stop ruining my social life! =P) Rath101 04:11, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the info. I haven't been anywhere near Mass Effect in a while. The Yoshiman 97 04:33, March 12, 2010 (UTC)

Delete move tag?
now that the page is called Kasumi Goto, can we remove the move tag? also can we put kasumi in the characters screen now? Freekkiller7 09:14, March 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, the tag can go. As far as the characters screen, if you're asking if Kasumi can go on the Characters page, she already is. SpartHawg948 10:51, March 13, 2010 (UTC)

Placeholder model image
Could anyone upload an image of her placeholder model? I thought there was one here a while ago, but I guess not. Darkman 4 23:41, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

I'm think the placeholder model was removed because it wasn't exactly canon. The Yoshiman 97 23:57, March 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well its still interesting. It could be part of a "Behind the Scenes" section once the DLC is released. Darkman 4 01:38, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe. As of now, I think we shouldn't put it in the article, but Kasumi's real face could be revealed during the DLC. Maybe we could put this in the trivia or something if the placeholder looks completely different than what she really looks like, but no one can see the future, so I say we should wait until the DLC releases and then make something happen. The Yoshiman 97 01:43, March 17, 2010 (UTC)

I wonder what Zaeed's "placeholder" model would look like if not installed? Shadowhawk27 02:55, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

Zaeed, I don't think he had a placeholder image at all. I think he was made ground-up from the DLC. The Yoshiman 97 01:04, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I find that hard to believe, if Kasumi has a "placeholder" model when not installed then i'm so sure Zaeed has the same thing... Shadowhawk27 20:00, April 3, 2010 (UTC)

KOTOR II "Trivia" (aka Kasumi Goto vs G0-T0)
So, even though this is already covered once on this talk page, and it has been covered several times in edit summaries, I guess the need to reiterate still exists. There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing, to suggest that Kasumi Goto's last name is a reference to the droid G0-T0 from Knights of the Old Republic II other than the fact that the names look somewhat similar. Kasumi (as far as we know) isn't a droid masquerading as a human through the use of hologram technology. Kasumi (as far as we know) isn't a major criminal kingpin looking to bump off the #1 criminal organization in the galaxy. Kasumi (as far as we know) isn't driven by an insatiable desire to sustain the Citadel and Citadel space by any and all means necessary. As of this time, there appear to be no similarities whatsoever between the characters other than that they have somewhat similar names, and both seem to operate on the wrong side of the law, albeit in very different capacities. KOTOR II isn't even a BioWare game, so that can't be used as a purported link. This would seem to make the similarity in name coincidental. And of course, coincidental similarities in names does not constitute valid trivia. SpartHawg948 07:30, March 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * A character need not be exactly the same as another for their name to be a reference. They're both criminal, theyr both in a sci-fi RPG, and they're both, despite the fact the KotOR II was made by Obsidian, related to Bioware. 213.66.207.110 15:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * G0-T0 isn't related to BioWare. KOTOR II is an Obsidian/Lucasarts game. BioWare had nothing to do with it, other than (IIRC) recommending to the Lucas people that Obsidian do KOTOR II. Hardly related.SpartHawg948 19:03, March 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * And a quick note based on the latest iteration of the G0-T0 "similarity" thing- the last one stated that they both wear dark armor. This is, of course, not true. Kasumi Goto appears to wear dark armor, while G0-T0 was constructed with a black exterior. Comparing the two is like saying that Mordin Solus and a Star Destroyer both wear white armor. SpartHawg948 03:07, March 19, 2010 (UTC)

I knew the embedded text wouldn't stop it. In order for it to work, people would need to actually take a moment to read these things. Sigh... SpartHawg948 19:52, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * To read it they also need to scroll over it unless they're looking at the source page. If you disable rich text editing that might stop them.Bastian964 20:06, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think that RTE will be disabled here. The Yoshiman 97 23:24, March 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Something tells me that the community will be dealing with this for a long time coming. I also don't think that it will stop anytime soon until people get the message and look at this section first. Lancer1289 22:00, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Maybe I can to write something at the trivia to solve this. If isn't satisfactory, please go ahead and undo it. Teugene 08:47, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * There is already embedded text at the beginning and end of the trivia section, which is the proper way to address this. It may not always work as hoped, but it is the correct way to go about it. Please don't insert anything into the trivia itself. Thanks, SpartHawg948 08:55, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, I only saw this reply after editing the trivia. Anyway, like I said, if it isn't satisfactory, free free to revert. Teugene 09:01, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, while it is HIGHLY unlikely, we can't say with 100% certainty that this isn't a reference to G0-T0. It's extremely unlikely, but unless we have something from BioWare explicitly stating it isn't a reference, there's always the outside chance, which is we we need to avoid absolute statements like "Kasumi is not a reference to G0-T0" in the article. It's unlikely enough that it falls under the "coincidentally similar names are not trivia" clause, but I will admit, there is always a chance, however unlikely. SpartHawg948 09:06, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then, what about saying "Contrary to some beliefs, Kasumi's surname is most likely unrelated to the droid G0-T0 from Knights of the Old Republic II. The explanation be found here." a slight compromise between the two. Otherwise we're gonna have reverts after reverts just because people won't read. Teugene 09:11, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * No. That still wouldn't be kosher. Trivia sections are for actual nuggets of trivia, as opposed to denial of items people keep putting in there. If we have to keep reverting, so be it. It's the nature of the beast. If we did something like this every time one of these issues came up... well, we wouldn't have hundreds of articles with this type of entry, but we'd have several. For instance, if we do this one, we would also (for purposes of consistency) need to put entries on the Commander Shepard page pointing out that, contrary to some beliefs, Commander Shepard, whose default male name is John, is most likely unrelated to Colonel John Sheppard from Stargate Atlantis, or to Jack Shepard from Lost, both of which are fairly popular tidbits for people to insert. We just have to grin and bear it. This stuff comes with the wiki territory. SpartHawg948 09:16, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I guess it's true. Or alternatively, you could take a hardline approach by locking this page! *evil laugh*. Teugene 09:36, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

As to the latest thing, we don't know how far BioWare got in developing the game so we don't know if G0-T0 was even concieved by BioWare. While it is true that BioWare asked LucasArts to pass the project to Obsidian, we don't know how far they got in developing the game. Unless there is definate proof that BioWare developed the character stop adding the references. Lancer1289 21:49, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Price
Okay about the price, 560 MS Points? Lancer says multiple sources confirm the price yet the sources provided on the page DOES NOT mention the exact price. Also the Mass Effect official website (which was recently update) states the price as "Coming Soon": http://masseffect.bioware.com/info/dlc/ So where'd the 560 come from? I am not trying to start a war or anything, I was want the information on the page to be correct. --Oc ca m's  Ra  zo  r  21:53, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's been stated in several articles on the 'net, for whatever that's worth. In my opinion, however, the article should reflect what appears on the official site: that at this time the price is still to be determined. It can always be updated once Bioware gives official word. Derint 22:27, March 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I believe it was stated on an unreliable non-English site, and multiple other sites used that one as a source. It has since then been removed from most articles. JediMB 11:54, March 21, 2010 (UTC)

"Killed my partner and stole his "
Warning: Pure speculation. In this video: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/kasumi-dlc-mass-effect/63465 It sounds to me like Kasumi says "...killed my partner and stole his grey box." (My mind makes the jump from grey box to the blue box required by all AI. Most likely not the case, though.) Does anyone else hear "grey box"? Am I insane? (Wait, don't answer that last one. I already know the answer.) Bakageta-Koto 22:45, March 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, she says that in that trailer... hmm... wonder what a grey box is? AbsolutGrndZer0 00:54, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * I doubt they'll have another AI, I reckon it'll just be a tail of how she's amazingly OSSUM. (Laexio) 80.7.251.39 10:44, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

OSSUM? AbsolutGrndZer0 22:47, March 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * "Awesome" I believe. Bakageta-Koto 00:14, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

Another translation
Call me stupid if you wish, but i need a translation for the word wisteria ralok 23:09, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

藤�Wisteria is a flowering vine that's popular in China and Japan. Quite lovely. Bakageta-Koto 23:17, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Whoever put the Kanji there, did you remember to make it Goto Kasumi? That's proper Japanese, family name comes first.AbsolutGrndZer0 17:54, March 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * It has been corrected. I know the family/given name order perfectly well, so why didn't I do it when I put the kanji in? DX Whatever. It's correct now. My sincere apologies. Thank you for catching me. Bakageta-Koto 19:06, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Isn't it a bit presumptuous to be doing this, though? Putting it in kanji form and doing the whole Goto Kasumi thing strikes me as pretty darn speculative. For starters, how do we know her name isn't already given as family name, then given name? If this is the case, Goto Kasumi would be incorrect. And it assumes that she would even use kanji form for her name. She might not. Her name nay actually not serve at all as an indicator of her ethnic background. Fun little example- did you know Chuck Norris' first name is Carlos? Norris, of course, is not hispanic, he's 1/2 Irish, 1/2 Cherokee, but for some reason his parents decided to name him Carlos. Maybe Kasumi's folks were just on a big Japanese kick, which has happened throughout the world from time to time. SpartHawg948 20:33, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * To answer: by Japanese naming standards, Kasumi is only a given name, Goto is only a family name. (Though, I'm sure there is some individual out there somewhere whose name doesn't follow the standard.) I am 99.99% certain that Kasumi is her given name and Goto is her family name. Also, if her family just wanted to give her name a Japanese spin, then why is her last name the very Japanese "Goto"? Even if the individual isn't of an ethnicity that uses kanji, a name can still be written in it. I do concede the point that it's a bit too uncertain, however. ^^ Let's wait for an official release on the kanji, if there ever is one. Bakageta-Koto 21:04, March 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why would they give her a very Japanese name? Why would two people with not a drop of hispanic blood in them name their son Carlos? Sometimes people just give their kids names from other cultures. Whose to say that Kasumi Goto is even her real name? She is a criminal, after all. So there might not even be a family name. SpartHawg948 21:15, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

To be really pedantic about it, we don't even know if Japanese is still written using kanji in the ME universe ;) 86.158.28.199 18:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

13th Recruitable Member
To reiterate SpartHawg948's explanation:

"Miranda Lawson, Jacob Taylor, Mordin Solus, Garrus Vakarian, Zaeed Messani, Jack, Grunt, Thane Krios, Tali'Zorah vas Neema, Legion, Samara, Morinth, Kasumi Goto. 13 recruitable squad members. It may only be possible to have 12 members in your squad, as you can't have both Morinth and Samara, but there are 13 recruitable squad members, and as Kasumi is (soon to be) the most recent, she will be the '13th recruitable squadmember'."

So remember, there's currently a total of 13 squad members (as of Kasumi) whom you can recruit. Not 12. Teugene 11:06, March 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's true. I did in fact say that. One of my more auspicious moments, don't you think? (Certainly one of my more lucid!) :P SpartHawg948 15:08, March 31, 2010 (UTC)

So which one is Judas?John117XL 19:28, April 6, 2010 (UTC) :P

Mr. Bond?
I thought I heard her say Mr. Bond, but wasn't sure.
 * Regardless of whether she did or didn't, this would seem to be a reference made only to a male Shepard. As such, not really suitable for a headquote at the top of the article, and it'd be preferable to keep it out for the moment due to the resulting canon/Shepard gender issues. When this article fills out, it'll likely expand to include a dialogue subpage like the other squad members have, and this content is more suitable for that venue. SpartHawg948 02:19, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, wonder what she'll call the female Shepard? Ms. Galore? LOL Seriously though, after listening to it over and over, it sounds more like she's saying Mr. DAWN to me. AbsolutGrndZer0 02:32, April 2, 2010 (UTC)

Where is she?
It is april 6th at 9:20 am eastern standard time, and I still see no mention of her on the cerberus network. Is this just me or has the DLC not been released yet


 * Not yet. I am on Xbox Live Marketplace now and It will probably be released around Noon EST. I sure someone will say when it is out. Lancer1289 13:24, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * However this is just my guess. Lancer1289 13:31, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Aparently it's not being released at noon EST. Strange, since the last major DLC I was waiting for was released at midnight; the Return to Ostagar DLC for Dragon Age.

Maybe Bioware is trying to avoid the the "initial Return to Ostagar bug" with Kasumi? HitokiriAkins 16:22, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That bug was discovered after the fact and BioWare immediatly took it down. Kasumi Hasn't even been posted yet so I Think they are waiting to later today. Apparenlty my noon prediction was off. Lancer1289 17:38, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Depression.* I was so pumped and ready to download Kasumi when I got home. Why, Bioware, why?! *sadfaic*

Anyone on PC have it yet, or have you guys been shafted too? Christ I hope it's out sometime soon. No telling how long Borderlands will entertain before I go off and take a nap. 65.186.83.127 19:21, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I just checked the website and the date was changed from April 6 to early April. That's not good. Lancer1289 19:38, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

On the DLC page? It's always been that, as far as I can remember. 65.186.83.127 19:41, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No it said april 6 for the last few days and last night. Lancer1289 19:42, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well that is troubling, but the front page has an announcement dated yesterday saying she'd be out tomorrow. 65.186.83.127 19:44, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Unforeseen glitches can change the decision to release at the last minute. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 19:46, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

FUUUUUUUUUUU Matt 2108 19:47, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, I'll bet that they will release it tonight at some point, past 7:00 pm Eastern time. Maybe they are having problems but who knows. Well that was inappropiate. Lancer1289 19:48, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well, look at it this way- would you rather have it take a day or two more to release glitch-free, or would you rather have it release on time, be full of glitches, get pulled, and then re-released a few days later (like Broken Steel)? SpartHawg948 19:56, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

I could swear it was The Pitt that was hopelessly broken at launch. ;) 65.186.83.127 19:58, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, you're definitely correct on that one. The Pitt had major issues on the 360, which caused it to be pulled and re-released a day later, and that may have actually been what I was thinking of, but Broken Steel also had to be pulled and re-released two days late for the PC version. Poor Fallout 3... such a great game, and the DLCs are great too, but so many issues... SpartHawg948 20:02, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Also this happened with Ostagar with Dragon Age and you have a point. I'd rather wait then get something glitchy. Lancer1289 20:00, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I knew about the problem with thje Return to Ostagar DLC; I was one of the people who downloaded it within that window when it was up the first time. I honestly think that Bioware may be delaying the Kasumi DLC to avoid potential problems like that.

If that's what's happening, it sets a good precedent for Bioware remaining in control of their own company. They're saying "No, EA, we're not letting you push something out before it's ready. We did that with Dragon Age, and look what happened! No, the Kasumi DLC is being released when it's ready and bugfixed, not before!"

At least, that's what I want to think. HitokiriAkins 20:30, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

So let me get this straight, it's Return to Ostagar DLC bug crap, all over again, god i hate that.... Shadowhawk27 20:40, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Probably not perhaps BioWare caught it before or maybe because thieves work in the dark it is a night release. Just thinking out loud here. Lancer1289 20:42, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

IGN Article: Problems with DLC Babyhenchy1 21:06, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

There weren't any problems with releasing the Firewalker pack. Why this? Because everyone was highly anticipating it and the joke is on us...yep. Shadowhawk27 21:10, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Really we don't konw a lot about the pack and how large it is. Nothing is released without problems and this one isn't as bad as we all thought, judging by the comments above. Lancer1289 21:17, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * It may be because EA insists on having the content on their own servers hooked through the XBL servers. There probably wasn't a problem with Firewalker because it can only be accessed through the Cerberus network, which connects directly to EA's servers. Because Kasumi is premium content and is also available on the Marketplace, this is probably what the snag is. &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 21:19, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's what's causing the delay? EA and Microsoft duking it out over who has control of their DLC? HitokiriAkins 21:59, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Probably, and it semes likly. Still I'd rather them take the time than be in the middle of downloading it and have it crash. Lancer1289 21:20, April 6, 2010 (UTC) HitokiriAkins added after my commentLancer1289 22:01, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, we can see that by the timestamp. Mine said 21:59, yours said 21:20. HitokiriAkins 22:32, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

If this turns out to be just like Return to Ostagar, i'll scream....Shadowhawk27 22:18, April 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * The DLC Was released on Xboxc 360 (downloading right now), sjould not be long before the pc version Rookie_One 22:40, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see it on Bioware SocialNetwork O_o Shadowhawk27
 * Same here. I call BS. -.-

BS called I am on Live right now and it isn't up there will remove from article momenteraly. Lancer1289 22:53, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

If there one thing i hate more than delays, it's false claims... Shadowhawk27 22:55, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. Lancer1289 22:56, April 6, 2010 (UTC)