Talk:Mass Effect 2 Guide

Template Box
This is peripherally related to this particular article, but I didn't find anywhere else to put it.

There are a bunch of really good/in-progress guides for ME2 on the wiki already, including class-specific guides, weapons and equipment guides, and plot-related guides. Right now, the only way they're accessible is by parsing through the list of articles in the Guides category.

What do people think of a template box for ME2 guide pages, similar to the one at the bottom of the squad members page for ME and ME2 squad members? If there's no real opposition/people don't think it's a terrible idea, I or someone else could whip up something for further discussion. UERD 23:24, March 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I've put together a potential template box just for kicks. I've reproduced it below. We certainly don't have to use this one at all, it was just made as an example of something which could be used to facilitate navigation between the various guides on the wiki:


 * UERD 00:20, March 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and made the template, and added it into a few pages. If this was improper, let me know and I'll remove them. UERD 03:03, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * FWIW I think it looks pretty useful. --DRY 07:23, March 4, 2010 (UTC)

Endgame
In the endgame, what are the requirements to keep Shepard alive? Do you have to buy a specific upgrade?

116.48.225.127 15:32, March 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just keeping Shepard alive is pretty easy, just take a loyal crew member with you to fight the human-reaper larva thing - Then they'll survive that fight and be able to pull shep on board the Normandy at the end. Raphaeldisanto 16:43, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Well, here's how I played the suicide mission.

I sent Legion to be the hacker, Samara for the biotic field part, Garrus for the fire team the first time, Grunt for the second time, and I always had Miranda with me. Jack, Tali, and Thane were killed during the journey through to the Collector's base, and for the last part I brought Mordin and Miranda to fight the Human-Reaper, leaving Samara behind. Everybody died except Miranda (including Shepard), and I had Thane, Tali, Jack, and Miranda loyal to me.

Ideas, anyone?

116.48.225.127 09:30, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

First off, your assignments should be loyal team members. If not, someone will die on their watch (even themselves). Second, Grunt is not good as a team-leader. But, heck, check the Suicide Mission article, it's all nicely written down there. Prismvg 09:35, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Now that Kasumi Goto has been released, is anyone going to test if she's useful as the tech specialist? HitokiriAkins 01:26, April 8, 2010 (UTC)

Just saw that last edit. The last editor does have a point, Jack actually doesn't say anything but "hey" or.. well, "f off". Prismvg 20:42, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Really because I could have sworn she said something if you destroyed the base or saved it. Lancer1289 20:48, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I can't guarantee it for every one of my playthroughs, but I am certain that she didn't say anything when I played it last time. Maybe it's dependant on how far you went with her dialogue? Prismvg 20:53, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps, but I know I've gotten comments from her before. Lancer1289 21:00, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I prove myself wrong after all and my faith in YouTube is restored. Ladies and Gentlemen, I present Jack's Post Suicide Mission Dialogue. Go to about 1:25, this one shows destroyed Collector Base. Yes this a copy paste from my talk page and no I don't care that it is. Lancer1289 21:15, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hm, now that I see it, I'm experiencing some flashes from way back in Jan/Feb :P. Prismvg 21:21, October 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Good times, good times. :) Lancer1289 21:24, October 3, 2010 (UTC)

Get Shepard killed
Seriously, how do you get Shepard killed at the end of the mission ? I tried many but never got this ending and the conditions are not clearly explained in the article. Do you need to get every team member and the crew killed to get the death ending ?

If you need to kill Shepard only, take unloyal squadmates to fight the Human-Reaper. They will die and nobody will help Shep to get on Normandy. Kiadony 14:44, March 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * This does not apply on the Casual difficulty setting (PC version). On a recent "messing around" run, I had Mordin and Miranda die after the boss to see the scene, but Zaeed popped out of nowhere to help me onto the ship.  Anyone care to test other difficulty settings to see where the cutoff is? Felinoid 17:47, April 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * It is only if you have no other squadmates alive does Shepard die. Even if you didn't have any squadmates also running for the ship, if one other squadmate survived, then they will appear to help Shepard into the ship. To say again, all squasmates need to die for Shepard to die. I think we have been over this before somewhere, but I can't remember where. Lancer1289 17:52, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Death quote
During the Long Walk, when an un-ideal Squad Member is chosen to lead the fire-fight, they could die when the doors close, and say something. I think their last words should be quoted in each characters Suicide Mission page. Objections? Stormfin 22:23, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * For example, Legion states the following:

"Barriers overwhelmed. Auto-Saving. Archival upload commencing. No carrier. No Carrier. No Carrier. No-" I'm thinking this could be a header quote for the SM. Stormfin 22:24, March 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * That is not something that should be quoted here. Probably in their individual unique dialogue pages, but not in the guide. Lancer1289 22:36, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, not the guide itself. Legion's last words would be on his article's Suicide Mission, Samara's on hers, and so on.

Starting a new Shepard in ME2 after (at least) 1 play-through
I'm at the Lazarus Project screen (again) while re-importing my Shepard back into the game (original one was Veteran level, now I'm trying out Insanity). Furthermore I'm a Vanguard. I thought perhaps we could note the following:

Lazarus Project - Your achievements give you access to the following bonus powers. Select one:

Armor-Piercing Ammo Barrier Slam Fortification Geth Shield Boost Dominate Energy Drain Reave Neural Shock Shredder Ammo Warp Ammo

I know the above list of items seem to be achievements-specific, but I was wondering is such information noted somewhere on this Wiki? The fact that you get to pick a new bonus power upon completion of the game?Ubcphysicsyangbo 05:54, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

Oh one other thing I have noticed is that I'm still wearing the same civilian or off-duty clothing I used to wear (in the previous play-through) when I woke up in the Cerebus lab.Ubcphysicsyangbo 05:58, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good luck with Vanguard Insanity. You'll need it, especially if you're fond of that Charge. Anyways, you're talking about the "New Game Plus" mechanics. After you've beaten the game, anytime you create a new file--be it an import of another ME2 character or just a new, level 1 Shepard--you gain some "Long Service" benefits: 50,000 of each mineral and a bonus power choice of any sidekick's loyalty power (i.e. Samara's Reave, Miranda's Slam). Morinth's loyalty power, Dominate, is only available as a choice if you've successfully recruited her in any of your previous playthroughs. It's for this reason that most people reccomend only playing Insanity after you've already beaten the game once; the extra toys really do help. Shepard Commander 04:40, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, one more bonus I forgot to mention--if you imported a Mass Effect 2 playthrough, your New Game+ Shepard starts out at whatever level your imported character was, and you also start out with whatever Heavy Weapons you researched in your imported character's file. However, you cannot change your previous Shepard's appearance nor his class. So, if I beat the game with a level 28 Adept and imported him into a new file, I'd start out as a level 28 Adept with 50k of each mineral, all of my heavy weps from my previous file, and an extra power to boot. Shepard Commander 04:43, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Reaper IFF Section
The article states that you can only do one mission after acquiring the reaper IFF, but I have found this to be wrong. In all of my playthroughs, after the IFF mission, I activated Legion, then I was able to do Tali's loyalty mission (I brought Legion with me and I had already completed all other assignments/missions prior to this), then I accepted and did Legion's loyalty mission, and it was only after this that the crew was abducted. This tells me that you get two missions prior to the abduction... unless Legion's loyalty mission is a trigger for it, in which case it may be possible to do even more.
 * The 'one mission' thing is if you do all main and side missions (aka recruitment and loyalty) before the IFF, then that 'one mission' left is legions' loyalty mission. It will trigger after two missions, say you left tali and grunt's missions to last... therefore you will not get to do legions' loyalty mission until after you've completed the game (If you're playing for everyone to survive) AlexMcpherson 12:42, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * It appears that Legion is the trigger for the IFF. In one ocasion I intentionaly left Jacob, Jack and Grunt loyalty missions to be completed and even talking to Legion, but not doing his mission, allowed to me complete the leftover loyalty missions. As soon I did it Legion's mission, the abduction triggered. In other ocasion I was messing with the save editor to get all squad members before Horizon and Legion was the first loyalty mission I completed. As soon I got the Reaper IFF, immediatelly the abduction mission started (EDI simply tel me that the IFF was ready in the comm room and I need it to take the shuttle). But in other occasion it was like the article said, I was able to do two more missions before Legion's loyalty, then the abduction scene started. It was my second playtrough ever in ME2, so there was a lot of missions to be done yet (needless to say, I lost the entire crew except Chakwas). I think is safe to say that you can do at least two more loyalty missions before doing Legion's loyalty, but more than that is a risk. 189.110.221.86 08:14, June 13, 2010 (UTC)

Glitch
there is a glitch where if you reload a save when you meet up with Jacob, he gets his shotgun, (Xbox 360) Paladin cross 17:03, May 9, 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure about the validity of this glitch, nor do I know what you mean by "his shotgun," since Jacob already starts with the ability to use shotguns. Either way, I don't think we're including glitches and tweaks here, since, especially in the PC version of the game, there's just far too many. Shepard Commander 04:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Upgrades and hold the line score.
I was playing through on Normal in Mass Effect 2 the other day, and one of the loading screens said "Some upgrades affect Shepard, some affect the entire squad, the choice is yours. "

This just stuck out at me. Given the overall theme of these games, should we be reading in between the lines here? Is it possible that some of the variables for the Hold-the-line section of the suicide mission include individual party member's weapon damage and health bonuses? It would make sense to me because this (in terms of gameplay) explains how Grunt would be a good defender.

It's just a thought but it would take a while to experiment and verify. If anything, I'd have to fully upgrade everyone then have the squishiest people hold the door. Knight56 15:38, May 11, 2010 (UTC)

(Minor edit, forgot sig)

That is just to say that the choice is yours wether you spend your resources on them or on yourself etc. Grunt has some unique upgrades as an example. Only the combat related ship-upgrades do a difference in the suicidemission, the characters survivability is based on a lineup of your companions intermingled with wether or not they are loyal, mordin is the softest and grunt is the hardest, unloyal party members are moved up in line and might die before someone who's loyal but otherwise squishier.Nizzemancer 21:16, May 25, 2010 (UTC)

Final Desicion
What do you think of the last desicion. Should you save the base or destroy it. I was playing pure paragon, but thought the benefits of studying the ship would make saving it logical. Why then is it portrayed as a renegade desicion by all the crew?74.240.8.192 18:44, May 23, 2010 (UTC) James Smith

Several reasons:

1. You're giving TIM who is erratic and has proven himself highly unethical in the past a resource to gain more power.

2. Reaper technology has proven to be uncontainable severable times before, and very hard to reverse-engineer, any tech you gain will be to late if you lose and only advantageous to TIM if you win against the reapers.

3. The collectors where subjugated by the reapers, there's really nothing that can defeat them there that's worth the risk of indoctrinating more people.

Renegade = Does anything to win (extort kidnapped people before rescuing them, sacrificing people for an advantage etc.)

Paragon = Will do the honorable/naive thing (not shooting someone in the back, saving lives at the price of technology, telling the truth even when it hurts your cause)

Nizzemancer 20:12, May 26, 2010 (UTC)

Remember. EDI was engineered from Sovereign. The collector base MIGHT not indoctrinate anyone. Three reasons why...or rather why it wouldn't make sense to put indoctrinating technology into the Collector Base:

1. The Collectors who inhabit the base no longer need direct indoctrination since they have been too far gone to make any sort of difference.

2. Any other being taken there is being taken for processing. If they somehow escape, they have the swarms anyways.

3. No one else can invade the base because they don't have the Reaper IFF.

And Sovereign was DEAD dead, which we got EDI from. If EDI isn't indoctrinating the Normandy then I don't think anything from Sovreign will. (Interesting ME3 plot point though.) The Reaper on Legion's recruitment mission wasn't completely "dead" since it was still somewhat functional. That could easily be false but this is from the Illusive Man's point of view. Even if he is on a power trip, salvaging the collector base would be the best possible decision.

Though the original poster does make some sense. If the Illusive Man was out of the picture, saving the base would be a viable tactical option.

And remember, Renegade isn't necessarily WRONG, it's just more cynical then idealistic.

Though, to close it off. The Citadel was Reaper tech and we saw how well that did against a Reaper. Knight56 10:09, June 2, 2010 (UTC)

I blew it up on all my files except for my pure Renegade one. I'm guessing that, since pretty much everyone besides TIM thinks destroying the base is the best idea (play a file where you save the base and go talk to all your squadmates in post-game, they'll all tell you that you made a dangerous choice), destroying the base really is the best idea. Besides, don't forget who you're working with--Cerberus was one of the antagonist groups in ME1. Even in ME2, we repeatedly find evidence of Cerberus's reputation as a radical and destructive splinter group: consider Jack and all of her backstory as well as Project Overlord in the DLC. Point being, whether or not the Collector base can indoctrinate anyone doesn't seem relevant to me; the real decision is whether or not to entrust it in the hands of a terrorist, and that question I can answer in a heartbeat. Shepard Commander 05:03, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

It's Paragon because TIM wants to use the tech to create an apartheid. He hates all non-humans. I was gonna keep it until Thane said I ought not to and TIM just threw his racism at him

Legion's Loyalty and the Suicide Mission
Somewhere I read that if you have Legion's loyalty mission in your journal (BUT NOT COMPLETED), he will be considered "loyal" for the suicide mission, in terms of survivability. Any confirmation if this is true or not? Tanooki1432 14:23, August 9, 2010 (UTC)

I would highly doubt it. If it's true then it's definitely a bug, since story-wise that wouldn't make a bit of sense. I'll test it out if I get the time. Shepard Commander 05:07, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Archive
This page needs to be archived, badly. Anyone with wiki experience, please archive at least the first half of this page (if at all possible). The entries on this page date back almost to when the game was released, and we've definitely made great strides in grasping the game mechanics since then. We now understand that loyalty of squadmates doesn't ensure a no-death final mission. Doing so requires adequate decision-making both before (in purchasing ship upgrades) and during (in selecting squadmembers best suited for particular roles) the mission itself. We now understand that immediately jumping through the Omega 4 after your crew is abducted will save Kelly, or else she'll die by being turned into goop.

Admittedly, there are some things we still don't know for sure--exactly how many missions can you do after obtaining the Reaper IFF prior to the abduction of your crew? Exactly how many missions can you do before the attack on Freedom's Progress? Before the distress call from the Collector Ship?

However, questions like "WTF all my guys were loyal and they still died?" and "Are ship upgrades really necessary?", i.e. the questions that fill up 4/5 of the entries on this page, are definitely no longer helpful. I'd also reccomend putting a disclaimer on the new, shorter talk page that discourages people from asking "Why did my people die?" questions unless they're positive that they followed all the instructions listed in the Suicide Mission section of this guide. I get the feeling that somebody's not going to do their reading and then come straight here to ask about why Tali died when Zaeed was the fire team leader even though we figured it out months ago. Shepard Commander 05:46, August 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd have to beg to differ there. This page isn't that bad compared to some others (see Talk:Mass Effect 2). Sure, it'll need archived eventually, but I don't think that 46 sections and a not too terribly long page are 'badly' in need of archiving. As for comments not being helpful, personally I favor archiving based on objective standards such as length of the page, as opposed to subjective things such as 'helpfulness'. After all, some people just coming into this might still find the above comments helpful. Just because we figured something out months ago doesn't mean everyone figured it out months ago. We do gave to cater to everybody, not just the 'pros'. SpartHawg948 06:32, August 12, 2010 (UTC)

Point Calculation Link
I had to remove the most recent edit adding a link to a forum where it listed the point values for various squadmates and stated it as fact. However the problem I had with it is that there were no devs on that forum saying "yes that is how it works", and so it appears to be an interpretation of game data, which is speculation no matter how you cut it. As such we can't take it because it may be correct, but it may be incorrect as well. The information we have in the guide currently comes directly from Gameinformer Magazine which in turn came from the Developers themselves. The main issue is that since we can't say with absolute certainty that is how it works, no devs to confirm it, then it is unsourced speculation. Interesting yes, but based on the standards we have, and considering how the information was presented, it is speculation on how it works. Lancer1289 14:13, October 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Surely http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2933016/1 should be added somewhere? I mean across 20 pages no one that I have yet spotted has complained about the statistics, even if it is stated as a rough estimation? Its far more detailed than what we have. Ilovetelephones 21:23, October 8, 2010 (UTC)

Tech Specialist Death
I am continually puzzled why this keeps happening with people adding notes asking if Kasumi, Tali, or Legion are loyal then why do they die. First, this isn't how we do this, if you have a question about the article, or something specific like this, then put it on the talk page, or in the Forums.

As the point itself: Kasumi, Legion, or Tali will die if they are not loyal, and/or your second squad leader is not both loyal and ideal. These squad members are Miranda Lawson, Jacob Taylor, and Garrus Vakarian. These squad members must be loyal for this to succeed, if any of these three are not loyal, then they are considered not ideal. In addition, if your tech specialist isn't loyal, then they are also considered not ideal.

So just to recap this, your tech specialist must be Kasumi, Legion, or Tali, and they must be loyal. AND your second squad leader must be Miranda, Jacob, or Garrus, and they must also be loyal. Any other combination will get your specialist killed. I do hope this clarifies things and hopefully, fingers crossed, this will prevent this from happening in the future. Lancer1289 04:17, January 22, 2011 (UTC)

Mordin isn't bugged.
There is no bug with Mordin, he's just first in the priority list of who dies during Hold the Line. Someone in this topic on GameFAQs posted the math behind Hold the Line: http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/605239-mass-effect-2/57889357

As you can see, odds are people didn't leave behind a loyal Garrus and Grunt, thereby making the value less than the average of 2, meaning one member is going to die and Mordin is always first on that list. I've done this over half a dozen times now and never has Mordin died. However, on my first test of leaving behind less than the number required, lo and behold Mordin was killed. It happened the second time as well. So I edited out references to the now debunked bug. 66.211.73.233 05:26, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * And this is already known to us through an article with Gameinformer Magazine last year sometime, April IIRC. The article explains why Mordin is the ideal choice to leave behind, and your source about the math is interpretation of game data, which is classified here as speculation. Also where as there mention of a bug because there no mention of a bug in the article about this? Basically all this is is removal of valid and informative content. Lancer1289 05:33, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * The old edit linked to yet another "speculation" That you don't seem to mind. The difference is that the link I provided checks out while the other one is nothing more than a random conclusion based off no math at all. It's misinformation.  How is this a removal of information?  Mordin is still listed along with several other possibilities.  I ADDED information. 66.211.73.233 05:37, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Where exactly is the word "Bug" used becuase I can't seem to find it anywhere? In fact the word "bug" is only mentioned twice in the article. You did removed valid content and a good explaination of why Mordin should be sent to escort the crew back. Lancer1289 05:41, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * In the speculative link provided, which seems to say it may not be a bug but a long explanation based off nothing official that you don't seem to have an issue with. So I guess the difference between my link, that anyone can check out and verify, and yours, which says nothing that can be checked but rather "it's a job for soldiers."  How about we meet in the middle and take out your hypocritical link so it doesn't seem like you're snubbing me because I dare edit something you think is "a good explanation."  And leave all factual data to rot. 66.211.73.233 05:46, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no need for petty insults or jabs like that. That kind of language has no place here and is completely uncalled for an unnecessary. We have stated on multiple issues that interpretation of game data is speculation. I am willing to meet you and remove the link, but there was no need for that. And yes I do believe it is a good explanation because it does present not only the information we know, but information we know from a trusted source, e.g. an article in Gameinformer which was done with the developers. Lancer1289 05:50, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * You know what is a better explanation? This: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/2933016  So since this has been verified on two sites, by a multitude of people, I'm just gonna edit it back in now.  If you have a problem with this now then you don't have your objectivity glasses on and are just doing this to be difficult.  66.211.73.233 05:53, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Again no devs while we have information in the article that is from developers, which does override intperperattion of game data. I am being objective here, and not doing this to be difficult. I am keeping the standards of the article which has a lot of backing, while your edits remove information that is not only informative, but can be misleading. Lancer1289 05:58, February 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * You're being objective? You were going to leave in a link because you thought it was a "good explanation" that had no verifiable data attached to it spoken from nobody of note.  No, now you're just being difficult.  Fortunately for me all you're doing is showing the community here how petty you can be over something, so I don't lose out.  Just tried contributing facts to an article and wasn't expecting someone to wave a magazine article in my face (that hasn't actually surfaced yet so it's your word at the moment), dismiss my first link, then second, while feeling it ok to keep the old link that held no actual information beyond laughable speculation until I called you out on it, then claim objectivity on top of it all, editing back in misleading words as "high chance" w/o saying why nor given the actual odds in numbers.  I wont waste my time adding onto a wiki that has editors like you toss out info simply because you disagree with it and it isn't Word of God, even though anyone, anyone at all, can test it out for themselves with ease. You've done nothing more than make yourself look like a fool. 66.211.73.233 06:12, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit confict) Considering I removed said link, yes, and you failed to notice that it was gone. Your recent revision has also a number of problems, also starting with speculation. There are no devs on that forum, and therefore no basis for fact. While the information present already has information from an interview with developers, which is much more than a forum post that is based entirely on interpretation of game data. Which is again speculation. You are the one who is being difficult as you have removed content and added speculation. Speculation isn't allowed in articles and your link was entirely speculation. I have already removed the link which you said I haven't.

Missing Miranda?
OK, I know this is probably explained in a guide somewhere, but I didn't really want to take the time to look for it...In the very beginning of the game right after talking to the Illusive Man, I have run into two different situations, and I was wondering if anyone knows what governs which one you go through. I have come back into the room and seen both Jacob and Miranda there, but I have also come back and Miranda just isn't there at all. Is this supposed to happen and if so, can someone tell me perhaps how to avoid leaving Miranda out in the future so that I can get the extra Paragon/Renegade points? Thanks!! DeloreanFanatic 10:25, March 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * "I didn't really want to take the time to look for it..." is not the best attitude, but at least you're honest about it ;). Anyway, the same thing happened to me once. I assume it is a bug. AFAIR saving and reloading made Miranda reappear. --m.harmless 15:06, March 19, 2011 (UTC)


 * Ok thanks very much for your time. I apologize for the "attitude", but I think it was about 4am so I was pretty tired lol.  Thanks again!


 * You're welcome. Hope, I remember it correctly. :) --m.harmless 22:34, March 19, 2011 (UTC)

May or may not
I added the "may or may not have an effect in ME3" into the Legion: A House Divided, yet it was removed. But, that is also on the Tali: Treason and Mordin: Old Blood, so I removed it on those. LordDeathRay 05:59, June 30, 2011 (UTC) Sounds good, I didn't notice those or I would have as well. With ME3 on the horizon and since the ME guide doesn't do anything like that since we now know the effects I felt that they should be removed. We know they are going to have an affect, we just are waiting to see what, there is no question that these things will have *some* affect regardless of how big or small.--Xaero Dumort 07:24, June 30, 2011 (UTC)