Talk:Tali'Zorah nar Rayya

It says quite clearly in the ME forum that Tali is a party member in ME2. We should add this to the article.


 * No, it does not say anything of the sort. Please read the section on this page entitled "No confirmation for ME2...yet". SpartHawg948 22:44, October 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * it says that tali is a recruitable squad member for the suicide mission on the developer posts


 * Please provide the link for the developer post in question. The only link that has been thus far provided states nothing about Tali being a squad member, as I address in the "No confirmation for ME2...yet" section. SpartHawg948 11:54, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think it's Tali too, based on interpretation of that one forum post (the "can't pretend it's not her in the screenshots" one), the problem is there's no total concrete evidence yet. Do you have a link to this developer post so we can put this to rest?--TheWilsonator 11:49, October 21, 2009 (UTC)
 * Jarrett Lee lists the confirmed party members which includes Tali: http://meforums.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=695694&forum=144&sp=75


 * Patrick Weekes said he worked a few followers for ME2 (Tali, Miranda and 2 unannounced ones): http://meforums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=696810&forum=144 98.194.244.255 17:45, October 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * Finally, solid confirmation, you're a godsend! i'll put down Tali in the squad member section on the ME2 page.--TheWilsonator 19:00, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

I wonder what the other ships in the Flotilla are called. I already know of one, the Rayya. I bet one of the ships is called Abaran or Keelah. Hmmm... "Tali'Zorah vas Keelah..." the Keelah must be the ship Tali will join when she brings the geth info back to the Flotilla. And yet, I wonder where the Flotilla is now... Tullis, do you know? (I AM NOT SPAMMING THIS!!!)

Tali'Zorah vas Qwib-Qwib! JohnEdwa 10:08, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

someone help me get rid of that new qoute for the ME2 section of Tali

New quote under 'Romance' section
I noticed that this quote was recently added to the 'Romance' section: 'What could I possibly be suggesting? I mean, a young woman gets saved by a dashing commander who lets her join his crew and then goes off to save the galaxy? How could she possibly develop any kind of interest in him?' Out of curiosity, who says this ?

play the game. she says it to shepard. no problem
 * Very well. Thank you for the information. TheCzechDuck 03:09, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

New Name
Wouldn't her new name be Tali'Zorah nar Normandy? Thunderstream328 19:39, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
 * vas Normandy, if she's completed her Pilgrimage, but she says she wants to go back to her people after the mission, so she'll likely be joining a quarian ship. --Tullis 19:51, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Even if Tali decides to stay aboard the Normandy, she will most likely loose any title that associate her to the Migrant Fleet - but she might earn a different title that honor her in some way (the fleet will most likely see her action of defending the galaxy with the forces of the citadel, as a restoration of their lost honor). --silverstrike 20:57, 5 February 2009 (UTC)


 * I think what he means is that we should change the article name to vas Normandy as per the new character announcement trailer, in which, upon Tali's exile from the fleet, another Quarian says "Go in peace, Tali'Zorah vas Normany,"


 * I don't think so, Steve, for two reasons. 1) If you will note, these posts are from LONG before that quote or any info on a name change was released. These people were merely commenting on whether her name would change or not. And 2) The conversation on the possibility of a name change for the article takes place much farther down on the talk page (oddly enough, under the heading Name Change... what a coink-of a-dink, eh?). Spoiler alert: As of now it looks like it's not gonna happen. Read the aforementioned section to find out why. SpartHawg948 21:26, December 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * it's offical Vas Normandy is in during ME2 good job guys figuring it out...10 months earlier then announced -76.21.106.232 08:18, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

Tali was born on the Rayya, nar means in Quarian as the birthplace or child of, in this case it is the Rayya adding a vas means the vessel she is serving on thus having being called Tali vas Normandy. 173.32.109.154 17:57, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

A Rumour
Yesterday this article was edited, as someone added "rumours" about ME2 plot. I'm naturally not sure if any of them is true, though they were called by name - *rumours*. If this site's purpose is to provide actual information about ME universe, it should involve also unconfirmed news as long as it's clearly written that they're unofficial. We must remember that all the idea of this site's existence is about bringing entertainment and not lifeless data only. I kindly ask for permission to restore deleted paragraph for the greater joy of people visiting ME Wiki. --Twinker 09:08, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There is a place in the wiki for unofficial explanations, events, or otherwise that will occur in Mass Effect 2 - But, those bits of information need to have some ground. The comment that was deleted relates more to someones imagination, rather then something that was hinted, noted or relates to something official that was said. Mentioning speculations and wild imaginations will cause the wiki to stop being useful - you can search for the term garol that explains this problem. --silverstrike 11:49, 21 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Forums are for speculation, wikis are for information. If we open the door to unfounded speculation, the wiki quickly degenerates into a place where anyone can post whatever ideas they come up with. That means genuine facts and information get lost. Cutting down hard on speculation also makes the wiki a trustworthy source. Besides, that rumour did not have a link to any discussion thread or posted article, and appeared to be an individual's idea rather than an actual 'rumour'.
 * As Silverstrike says above, we have had this discussion before on other topics. Last year around the time the PC version was going to be released, someone created their own race and star systems in the Mass Effect universe, and started incorporating them into articles as fact. It caused a lot of problems and the best route we've found after that, I'm afraid, is to say, "unless it's confirmed, it belongs on a forum, and if posted here speculation will be removed." Sorry. --Tullis 15:07, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

Your argumentation makes sense. I'm kind of new here, and thought there's enough space for interesting speculations on Wikia. Now I'm beginning to understand how irritating it can be to search for a concrete piece of information and find an article full of doubtful content. By the way, I wonder is there a forum dedicated especially to speculations about ME. --Twinker 18:00, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There's the official forum, and there's a list of other fansites on the useful links page. --Tullis 18:19, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Apperance in ME2 or this a new girl?
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-mass-effect/49798

Naming Conventions
This article states that Rayya is the ship Tali was born on, but the page on quarian's says that "nar" means "child of", making Rayya the name of one of her parents, or possibly her family. Clarification, please? --HighTime 10:25, 23 June 2009 (UTC)
 * That's how quarian names work; the latter half of their name is that of the ship they were born on (hence 'child of') or have joined after their Pilgrimage. 'Zorah' is her clan name, which may possibly be her family name. See the bottom of the Pilgrimage article, or the Trivia section of Tali's article. --Tullis 12:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Tali's face
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNzUwrYSyCc This is a clip of Tali's face underneath the helmet

That's not her face, that's what Bioware used as a placeholder in the game. The Yoshiman 97 04:11, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

No confirmation for ME2... yet
Ok, wanna clear this up again- it has NOT yet been established that Tali will be a squad member in ME2. All the forum post people keep liking to says is that she will appear in ME2, but does not state that she will be a squad member. Ok, so what? We know that most, if not all, ME squad members will appear in ME2. In the paragraph above the one mentioning that Tali will appear (but not stating that she will be a squad member), it is clearly stated, "Don't assume too much from the *tiny* amount of video, screens and info we have released." And of course, our policy on this wiki is also one of not making assumptions. If new info comes out confirming that Tali will be a squad member, fine. Until then, any edits to that effect will be considered speculation, and treated accordingly. SpartHawg948 11:06, September 3, 2009 (UTC)

Protected Page
As some of you may have noticed, this article is now protected. I will lay out the rational for this, short and sweet-like. Over the last few days, we have had several editors insert demonstrably false and speculative content to the article. If you do not know to what I am referring, allow me to enlighten you. This has been cited as evidence that Tali will appear as a squad member, when in fact, it says nothing of the sort. It states that she will appear in the game, but does not specify in what capacity. Further, before Mr. Lee confirms that the quarian in the screenshots is Tali, he advises viewers, "Don't assume too much from the *tiny* amount of video, screens and info we have released.". We at this wiki also have a policy against assumptions, and for that reason the page has been temporarily protected. If you are aware of a source that has gone unnoticed, please advise me, and if the source does confirm that Tali will be a squad member, the info (and source) will be added and the protection will be lifted. Thanks. SpartHawg948 06:58, September 9, 2009 (UTC)


 * I think in light of the links provided at the top of the page, the protection on the page can be lifted.--TheWilsonator 20:24, October 21, 2009 (UTC)

"Go in peace, Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy."
http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/rpg/masseffect2workingtitle/video/6241256?hd=1&tag=topslot;thumb;3#toggle_video

Someone needs to change the article. -Proconix 18:16, November 25, 2009 (UTC)Proconix

Eh, I went ahead and did it. So never mind. -Proconix 19:15, November 25, 2009 (UTC)proconix


 * Removed for now as the link was incorrect and the paragraph had spelling /capitalisation errors. Please check your edits. --Tullis 19:33, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Redid it, sans errors and with the link provided and all that good stuff, as well as some more background info. SpartHawg948 23:31, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I really hate getting spoilers just for checking edits. : ( --Tullis 23:34, November 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed... oh well. We did kinda sign up for the gig, spoilers and all. :( But hey, give it about 2 more months and then we won't have to worry about spoilers anymore! SpartHawg948 23:38, November 25, 2009 (UTC)

The Quarian lady at the end said "Keelah sava" or something like that. I think the "Keelah" phrase isn't more of an expletive as more like somebody yelling out "Jesus Christ!" when they are in a like situation. 24.87.4.53 14:10, December 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Or, it could still be an expletive. Remember that Tali was just found guilty of treason, and people don't usually have nice things to say to traitors. Keelah sava or whatever it was could be the quarian way of saying "F you!" for all we know! :P Personally, I think it's more likely to be a reference to a deity, but we have no info to back it up, and given the nature of the situation in which it was uttered, this instance isn't really proof either way. SpartHawg948 23:00, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

When I first wrote "keelah se'lai," I'd intended it to be the equivalent of "blessed be." It may have been subsequently used in ways that don't fit that usage. -- Stormwaltz 21:29, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

ME2 quote
Ideally, quotes on squad member pages should be something said by that squad member, if there's one in the vid. I'd try to avoid Shepard quotes for the same reason we don't use Shepard pictures; everyone says different things. Took me ages to pick out the one for Shepard's main page... ; ) --Tullis 21:01, November 26, 2009 (UTC)

Quote Spacing
What's with the insistence on having a useless space above the top page quote? It's unnecessary and just looks messy since the top doesn't align with the character box. I say either delete the space or have the quote a line above everything else centred in the very centre of the page. Evidently it's not my call though. Personally I think having the quote above the character box looks much nicer. JakePT 04:56, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

Article name
Shouldn't it be Tali'Zorah, and just that? JAF1970 07:44, November 30, 2009 (UTC)


 * No, as that would constitute a spoiler for ME2, and it is of course improper to refer to someone by first name only unless you know them personally. As this is an encyclopedia, we tend not to do that kind of stuff. :) SpartHawg948 09:16, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * And as for the inevitable "but her name is no longer nar Rayya as of sometime in ME2", as Tullis stated somewhere else recently (the exact page escapes me at the moment), we'll most likely end up treating it the same way we did Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya, who towards the end of ME:Ascension became Lemm'Shal vas Idenna. If you consult that page, you will see it begins with "Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya (later Lemm'Shal vas Idenna)". Dollars to doughnuts this will be what happens to the Tali page too, after ME2 releases of course, to avoid the spoiler issue. SpartHawg948 09:21, November 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't go around saying "I'm Jonah Falcon of New York" to anyone, then say "I'm Jonah Falcon of LA" when I stay there. JAF1970 02:30, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well... that's kind of what the quarians do, when they change their home ship. Tophvision 02:39, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * But your actual name isn't Jonah Falcon of New York, so it's not a valid comparison. If you came from a society that operated the same way the quarian society does, it would be another matter entirely. It's all spelled out in the quarian article in the section on language. SpartHawg948 02:42, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's more closely comparable to this. When a female celebrity becomes famous, they are associated with that name. If they get married and change their last name, they are still well known by their first name; it's common trivia that their new name is "Smith", but everyone knows her as "Jones" (for example). If they only got famous after marriage, then any article (including Wikipedia) would refer to them by their married name, but if we know them before they're married, it's their maiden name. Same thing here - Tali is well known to everyone as nar Rayya. It'll be common knowledge when she changes her name, but as she was originally famous with her original name, that's the way that the article should stay. Hope that rationalization works :D Boter 23:41, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

If it means anything, the official ME2 website is now listing Tali as simply Tali'Zorah. http://masseffect.bioware.com/universe/characters/tali/ JakePT 00:51, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Handling the article name

 * A thought occurs. On TLJWiki, after the sequel Dreamfall came out, we had a lot of issues with characters, what their articles should be called and how we should handle their information. We generally kept the article as the same name and put their Dreamfall information underneath it. This might help us when ME2 comes out; some examples are here.::* April Ryan::* Brian Westhouse::* White Dragon, and how we handled a complex disambiguation page / search issue.
 * --Tullis 13:35, December 7, 2009 (UTC)


 * I still think we should just handle it the same way we did Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya. That way, we keep the article name the same as when the character was first introduced while acknowledging the name change right there in the very first sentence. It seems like a very good system to me. SpartHawg948 01:32, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, that pretty much is the same system. I was just talking about how we divide information. Just... trying to helpful. --Tullis 15:21, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm not saying you aren't being helpful. To the contrary, in fact! I will be completely honest though, I followed the links, didn't see anything right away about name changes and realized that in order to find it I may have to wade through articles full of stuff I had no knowledge of or context for, which, given my state of alertness at the time, seemed a rather daunting task, so I decided to just come back here and restate my position, for repetitions sake. :) SpartHawg948 21:48, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

If we handle Tali the same we handled Lemm'Shal nar Tesleya then Tali's page would have to look something like this: Tali'Zorah nar Rayya (later Tali'Zorah vas Neema, Tali'Zorah vas Normandy), or something like that. --Revan&#39;s Exile 21:30, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * It sure would! That's why I said exactly the same thing 5 days ago! There's even a section of this talk page dedicated to it! Please see "Further name complication (and yes, there are spoilers)", where this topic is discussed, and has been for nearly a week now! :P SpartHawg948 21:40, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Age & Time Between Games
The new profile for Tali on the official Mass Effect website states that her age is 24. It was my understanding that Tali was a teenager during the events of ME 1. Could this be a sign of the time that passed between the games? Tophvision 00:57, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Two things... first, Mass Effect is Mass Effect, not Mass Effect 1. Secondly, no, not really a sign of the time that has passed between the games. If you will refer to the Timeline article you will see that approx 2 years separate Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2. This would, of course, mean that Tali was not a teenager in the first game, but was in fact 22. While she was referred to as young and going through a rite of passage, you have to also factor in that she is not human. Her people may live longer than humans, and it would seem that their timeframe as far as when someone enters adulthood differs a bit from our own. Also, I don't believe it was ever stated how long she had been away on her pilgrimage. It's possible (however unnlikely) that she was a teenager when she departed the fleet to begin her pilgrimage. SpartHawg948 01:23, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Further name complication (and yes, there are spoilers)
Something just occurred to me while doing some edits for another newly-revealed ME2 character. Tali actually now appears to have a total of 3 names at various times. She was, of course, Tali'Zorah nar Rayya in Mass Effect, then, as we have now learned she becomes Tali'Zorah vas Neema when she returns to the fleet, as it has been stated that she joined the crew of the Neema. Then the whole treason brouhaha, which results in her becoming Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. So we're gonna have to list that accordingly. Do we want to do it "Tali'Zorah nar Rayya (later Tali'Zorah vas Neema, later Tali'Zorah vas Normandy)"? SpartHawg948 06:13, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * We could just follow the official site's example and for simplicity's sake rename the article "Tali'Zorah". I'd think that would be preferable to a very long article title or multiple articles or having to pick one name over the others (which would likely be an argument between "nar Rayya", her original name, and "vas Normandy", her most recent name). -- Commdor (Talk) 06:39, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm gonna try and keep that as an option of last resort. It is always preferable to have full names rather than half names, and as nar Rayya is the original name she is introduced as, that'd be the most likely winner for article name. We'll mull it over I guess and try to work something out. SpartHawg948 06:45, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * If her name is only vas Neema for a brief time when we meet her again, and she spends the rest of the game as vas Normandy, I don't have a problem with keeping 'vas Neema' to her Mass Effect 2 section and just having "nar Rayya, later vas Normandy" at the top. And I don't have an issue with this article being "nar Rayya", either. It's not inaccurate, any more than a person's maiden name is inaccurate after they get married. "vas Normandy" redirects to the correct section for that name, so what the article is called overall shouldn't be a problem. We can always create a "Tali'Zorah" redirect if people have issues. Which would not surprise me.
 * Bloody quarians. : ) --Tullis 13:41, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough! SpartHawg948 21:59, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ife the name is changed doesnt that count as a spoiler. ralok 23:57, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yes. That's why, if you read the entirety of the discussion, both here and in the other section, the change will not be made till after ME2 releases. It's not going to happen till then, since it's only a spoiler for ME. Once ME2 comes out and it becomes common knowledge, we can let it slide. SpartHawg948 01:27, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Tali Pic
Can we get a different one? The drive core behind her is distracting and makes it hard to see Tali. And it is just a cropped version of a pic found later in the article.--Xaero Dumort 17:55, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Experimented with another one. --Tullis 18:26, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Much better.--Xaero Dumort 18:51, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Don't like the new one at all... I'd go with the pic from ME2, personally. Only a week away. Matt 2108 19:08, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * No way! The current one looks awesome! If you want to add pics from ME2, put them in the ME2 section. I'm a big fan of this new one! SpartHawg948 21:05, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I updated the image twice today, so he may have been referring to the previous one in the Council Chambers, which wasn't very action-y. --Tullis 21:10, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough! Huzzah for action shots! SpartHawg948 21:13, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

About possible romance
I mailing to CD-Action (first review of ME 2 in Poland ) with question about possible romance with Tali'Zorah, and i receive the answer.

If you don't know polish language from the screen, I do simply translation for you:

Me: I asking about romance with Tali, or Garrus, because one of them (or both) are potential love partner in ME 2.I expected some explanations on this question. (in review)

Answer: You can sleep with her if you asking for :)

I know they can lying me... so I put this information only on discussion page.

You can choose and public this information or not. Your choices. SelvanPL 17:06, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yeah, that's not really what we consider a source. I'm not suggesting it but it's always possible such screenshots can be photoshopped. Officially released material or in-game verification is usually more what we go for. And with less than a week to release... --Tullis 18:24, January 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good point, but I know the truth. Would you like get copy of this e-mail? No problem for me. Leave an address, I can send it ;) And that copy can't be photoshopped, screens can be, e-mail not. Of course they can still lying me whit this answer, so it's still unofficial source, but it's happy times for me. (True fan of Tali'Zorah )SelvanPL 10:20, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Another thing we have to consider here is that it's a personal document from a reviewer, not something that was published in an official source or magazine or something. If it was published, that means that we can have a reasonable expectation that it was fact-checked before going to print. We can't say the same about an off-the-record statement from a reviewer. SpartHawg948 10:37, January 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's the reason why I public this information only in discussion page. This is unofficial spoiler. Only for fan of Tali'Zorah.SelvanPL 11:56, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Spoilers cannot be 'unofficial'. If they are not official, then they are not really part of the game. An email from a staff member of a magazine who has no involvement at all with the development of the game isn't exactly verifiable. And a reply as casual as the one you received seems more like a 'lie' than a 'spoiler' or 'official confirmation'. Phylarion 14:39, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Consider this: the reason why we can't recruit former squaddies like Ashley or Liara is because of their love interest status; they need to be alive for Mass Effect 3. Now if Tali is a love interest, she wouldn't be a teammate in Mass Effect 3 if she even appears in it. I'd rather have her on my team.
 * Not necessarily. Casey Hudson said that you can't recruit your former love interest squadmember. As it was impossible for Tali to be a love interest in ME, this excludes her, making it possible that she will be a romance option. And the reason you can't recruit them is because they want the ME love interest (ie Ashley, Kaidan, or Liara) to be alive in ME3. You can't apply this rule to ME2 romances for one obvious reason: It would mean that there would be a possibility Miranda wouldn't be in your squad, as she is a love interest, which we know isn't the case since she is one of the first two members (along with Jacob) whom you recruit. Also, stating (with no evidence to support this claim) that since you can't have ME love interests in your ME2 squad, this means that you can't have ME2 love interests in your ME3 squad is speculation, plain and simple. SpartHawg948 04:19, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Yes I know it's only speculation, I mean, there's nothing to stop BioWare from allowing you to recruit ME2 love interests into your ME3 squad. All I tried to do was scare Tali daydreamers that a possible romance with Tali could mean that she wouldn't be in your squad in ME3.
 * For what purpose? There really seems to be no point to wanting to "scare Tali daydreamers that a possible romance with Tali could mean that she wouldn't be in your squad in ME3." At least no constructive purpose. SpartHawg948 04:41, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Well, no. Just for my own nefarious purposes.
 * Outstanding. Just what we need right now. Please bear in mind though that there are quiet a few people here who see things like that speculative nonsense and take it at face value, and then start inserting it into articles, and keep re-adding it when it gets removed as speculative. So could we please keep the speculation for the sake of messing with people to a minimum? SpartHawg948 04:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sure.

This clip should be sufficient confirmation of a Tali romance: Click Here Inverness 06:05, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not quite. It's close to sufficient, but all she says is she'll try to find a way to make it possible. Don't get me wrong, after seeing that I'm pretty much sold on the idea, but the speculation-buster side of me says this is 99% of the way to confirmed, but 99% and 100% are two totally different things. Also, I don't believe it was intentional, but please make sure to not change other people's previous comments in any way. Thanks, SpartHawg948 06:19, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whether or not it is possible in the end does not change the fact that Shepard was romancing Tali. Inverness 06:26, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, but whether or not Tali reciprocates, or is physically capable of reciprocating does change whether or not she is romanceable, does it not? And the question wasn't "is Shepard romancing Tali", it was "is this or is this not confirmation that Tali is a romance option?" SpartHawg948 07:12, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I say it's pretty clear. There's a Part 2 link where she bascially tells Shepard she wants to sleep with him. She definately reciprocates. Even if it turns out they can't sleep togeather without her dying, that doesn't change the fact there's something going between the two of them in those two videos. We don't need a Shepard/Tali sex scene to confirm she's romancable. These two videos are it. RedViking 01:29, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Basically, all I'm trying to say here is this- For pretty much all the others save Miranda, we have statements that say (absolutely, with no need for interpretation) this person is a CONFIRMED romance option, and the video concerning Miranda speaks for itself. This one is more ambiguous. I'd say based on these videos we could say in the articles that it is likely Tali will be a romance option (as the video will suffice as evidence for speculation) but it is not iron-clad, set-in-stone confirmation. Pretty clear and definite are two totally different things. SpartHawg948 08:01, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * http://www.justin.tv/clip/484ea1edf445ff4d Here's your confirmation. It unlocks the Paramour achievement, which is a pretty good indication it's a romance. --147.143.241.136 09:29, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the confirmation, which came about an hour after I edited this article and the Romance article to state that Tali is a romance option. :P Maybe check the page first next time? If I say in my last comment that it's good to go into the article, and then stop commenting on it and then make an edit to the article itself, that should probably tell you something... Better luck next time! :P SpartHawg948 09:33, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I added it as concrete proof, because I did read the page and your last message was "This one is more ambiguous. I'd say based on these videos we could say in the articles that it is likely Tali will be a romance option (as the video will suffice as evidence for speculation) but it is not iron-clad, set-in-stone confirmation. Pretty clear and definite are two totally different things." and on the romance page "it is likely".

Is the wiki always this friendly? --147.143.241.136 09:44, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup! It sure is! After all, I did make clear that my statements were meant to be taken in jest, which was indicated by the use not once, but twice, of the emote :P. Regardless, if you insist on being technical, we can't really say it is concrete till release date. Could be another Caleston. (note- I don't think it is another Caleston, but if people want to get snippy and technical then I'm going to get technical too) SpartHawg948 09:49, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * YAY but damn it all at the same time but there's always ME3-76.21.106.232 05:58, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Some truth to Romance between games.
I'm afraid you might be right about a romancable character being unplayable in the following game. I know from playing the Origional neverwinter Nights between act 2 and three where you encounter previous party members for a time, none of them have any recollection of a bond (not that it really matters because you can only have them in party for 20 minutes of play. In Neverwinter Nights 2 Bioware leaves said party members' fate unknown, largely suggesting they died. In ME2 sofar its confirmed the romanceable characters will not be in party.

Largely judging from previous games Bioware has made, its highly likely that the trend will continue. Whether from lack of voice talent avialability or they plainy do not want to spend the recources on adding additional options/content.

In concerns to the 3rd video, I like how they pulled a "Master Chef" (IE, clever use of camera angles if you have not played Halo) in not showing her face. [[User:Raist474|Raist474 17:28, January 23, 2010 (UTC)]]


 * I rather enjoyed that one myself, got a good chuckle, after I stopped shaking my fist in the general direction of Bioware's HQ. On one notation, it is worth mentioning that if indeed Tali was some freak of nature underneath that mask, I think it's safe to say Shepard would've been like "HOLY SH!T NO," but instead he develops this sort of mini-smile before she practically pounces him. I can only say it's speculation, but I believe Shepard's reaction confirms: Tali is a babe. :D 72.66.34.127 12:56, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Tali (and all quarians, of course) definitely have lips, because when Tali pounces on Shepard, you can hear them kissing and they have their faces pressed together. Tali could very likely be a party member in ME3 as well, so how do people think the romance will continue? It seems a lot more intimate than the romances in ME1; Liara basically just found Shepard interesting and wanted to bonk like mad despite hardly knowing him, but Tali and Shepard have a strong bond in ME2 after she's exiled/exonerated by the quarians, because Shepard was the only one willing to step foward and help her. I think this is a sign of a possible romance that continues right through ME3. Arjac 01:00, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I hope you are right, indeed. I personally like Tali the best out of all possible 'paramours', for her relationship with Shepard does seem much more believable. I mean, the others just surrender to Shepard because he said nice things to them between missions. Tali, on the other hand, gives herself to him because, as you said, he sacrificed much to clear her name. In concerning Bioware's decision not to allow the player to see her face: I personally think this to be a good idea. It leaves the player to envision her face for himself; Tali would not go round and show her face haphazardly to everyone, rather only to someone very special, like Shephard. Such refusal to reveal Tali's face does indeed suggest a continued love in ME3, although I may just be thinking wishfully. TheCzechDuck 21:28, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well judging just by the fact that she (and Garrus for that matter) where party members in the frist two they should be partty members in the thrid. I think they'll take the best characters from the the last two games (Ie Garrus, Tali, Legion, ect) provided they live. Though this is all speculation on my part. (Bio ware tends to keep there most popular characters, Wrex excluded). And mabye since it is the last game They'll finally show a quarians face!


 * (Partial Spoiler) I don't know about Tali not being a squad member in ME3. A previous comment said that Bioware left out Liara and Ashley because they wanted to make sure that they would be alive in ME3 (not sure if that is legit or not but hey whatever.) If that was the only reason then Tali could very well be in ME3. Bioware has said that ME will be a trilogy (can someone confirm that Bioware said that please, I can't seem to find where I read it.) If that's true then there's no reason to keep them out of ME3 because there won't be an ME4 for them to make sure they're alive in. My guess would be you end up choosing between your ME(if you had one) and ME2 interest after an interesting reunion if you had both. Then you further the romance. You'll notice that with ME and ME2 you consumate the relationship at the very end of the game and get no time to really explore the romance. Then in ME2 your previous love interests are "unavailable" for various reasons and the same thing happens with the new romance options. So it seems ME3 will have to be when Shepard's major advancement of a romance happens, and yes Tali's definatly the best, wish Jennifer Hale wasn't so awesome that I played through as female after my first male character got erased by a rogue Xbox. 68.90.188.61 02:20, February 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good points; I agree completely. I hope very much that you are right. --TheCzechDuck 16:36, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Sojourn
With Shepard and Kal'Reegar speaking on her behalf she is either exiled for her alleged crimes, disgraced by her father's experiments, or is pardoned after Shepard makes an impassioned speech on her behalf. Following her exile she rejoins Shepard and the crew of the Normandy and assists them in their mission to put an end to the Collectors' campaign of mass human abductions across the galaxy. Following their naming conventions she becomes Tali'Zorah vas Normandy in the eyes of the quarians at this point.

Does this mean that we can ONLY recruit Tali if she gets EXILED/DISGRACED? And stays with the floatilla if Shepard helps her get "pardoned"? 24.87.4.53 17:02, January 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * She will continue to be 'Tali'Zorah vas Normandy' even if she's pardoned, and will leave the flotilla to stay with your ship. 213.161.165.157 13:15, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Accent
Is Tali's accent based upon an existing real-world dialect, or more of an amalgamation of several into an original one? I've been trying to place it every time she speaks, but I've never been good with accents...

--Cyberweasel89 03:40, January 25, 2010 (UTC)


 * It seems that the quarians' accents are based upon either Eastern European (i.e. Russian) or British accents. Two of the Admirals sport British accents, one a rather Welsh bloke and the other a dignified Received Pronunciation. TheCzechDuck 21:45, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Liz Sroka is the actress who voices Tali. Her name is a Polish nickname meaning "magpie," so she might be of Polish descent. This may be where her accent comes from. My grandfather is a German immigrant and his accent sounds similar to Tali's. There is more American undertones in her voice, though, because she was born and raised in New York. --ArmeniusLOD 15:17, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Actually, no, her accent is middle-eastern. Like a gypsy.--Kluutak 12:17, March 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * So is it Middle Eastern, or like a gypsy? Because the Romani (also known as gypsies) are not Middle Eastern. They originate on the Indian subcontinent, and nowadays the majority of them reside in Eastern Europe. Neither of these places are the Middle East. And there are actually several distinct Romani accents, as there are now eight main grouping of Romani, centered in Italy (and Italian-speaking Central Europe), Spain, Finland, Wales, England, Germanic-speaking Central Europe, Romania and French-speaking Central Europe, and Sweden and Norway. Again, none of these places are the Middle East. SpartHawg948 12:38, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty Mission
When Tali was informing the Migrant Fleet who was coming she referred to herself as Tali'Zorah vas Neema nar Rayya. --193.200.150.152 18:27, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Well but after that she is called Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy Tmasterson 14:25, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Name
Okay, last I saw, Tali can join you whether she's exiled or not. If she isn't exiled and goes with you anyways, does her name stay Tali'Zorah vas Neema, or does she change to vas Normandy in that case too? If that's the case, shouldn't this be moved to Tali'Zorah vas Normandy? Tahaneira 01:39, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

It's rather Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy. I remember that well. Tmasterson 14:27, January 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, it's not. It's Tali'Zorah vas Normandy. Even if we don't use our very different conclusions from listening to the same line 30 times a month ago or so, stated Quarian custom, ME:Ascension, and Tali's own statements in ME1 indicate that after you complete your pilgrimage and are adopted by a new ship (which is never the original ship), your affiliation with your old ship disappears and is replace with your affiliation with your adopted ship (ie: nar Rayya would disappear, vas ______ (whatever her interim ship between Rayya and Normandy) would appear. No matter how you cut it, she won't have nar Rayya. Theoretically, custom would dictate that upon turning to the Normandy as her permanent home, she would adopt vas Normandy.


 * This doesn't answer the initial question and I'm curious as to the answer because, if she does become vas Normandy, I'd propose a name change for this page (just like most wikis change page names after marriages, etc). --forgottenlord 20:53, January 28, 2010 (UTC)


 * She introduces herself to the fleet as "Tali'Zorah vas Neema nar Rayya" at the start of her loyalty mission. (Apologies for the insanely low quality of the picture, I have the 360 version and had to take a picture of my TV) So clearly the "child of" part isn't CUT after the pilgrimage, exactly, just not used informally. --OzzMan 06:43, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Still not Tali'Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy... --forgottenlord 23:47, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Vas means "Crew of", nar means "born on" or "born of." Young Quarians have a ' Nar , Tali'Zorah Nar Rayya. Completed pilgramige Quarians (that have been accepted by a ship as a crewmember) have ' Vas  Nar  "Tali'Zorah Vas Neema Nar Rayya." Social situations determine how much of the name you have to say. IE. when just hanging out on the Normandy, Shepard can just call her "Tali". In a slightly more formal setting it would be "Tali'Zorah." In a slightly more formal situation or when introducing someone "Tali'Zorah Vas Neema" and during ultra formal times (like leveling the accusation in a trial for treason) "Tali'Zorah Vas Normandy Nar Rayya." So Nar does not explicity mean child or anything like that. 68.90.188.61 02:36, February 13, 2010 (UTC)


 * Her name was changed by the Admiralty Board separate from and prior to the trial itself, so no matter how the trial is resolved, her name remains vas Normandy officially for the remainder of ME2. -- Karm1c 17:58, February 12, 2010 (UTC)

Tali's face in-game etc.
Just finished ME2. I wonder, if I managed to get Tali's face texture out from the game (TexMod) or glitch the camera inside her helmet, would that merit a small subsection on her actual appearance? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 23:42, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

I don't think so. It would have to be an unmodded apperence.But you could put that up in a glitch section.
 * Uh, TexMod is a tool, not a mod. It allows me to view all the textures currently loaded into memory and since Tali's face is rendered under the helmet, it should be there. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 23:55, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry, but i don't think it will count as a good addition.You can put it up by all means.
 * It's nothing big, actually. The skin tone is gray (I assume to keep what's under the mask dark) and there's nothing really notable there (except for confirmation that she has a human-like nose and is bald). http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 00:31, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Of course, that's only because there was no real need to render much facial detail. Quarians wouldn't look like that.
 * Since they spend their entire lives inside environment suits, it's more than likely they are pale and hairless. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 01:19, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you are right, but I think that's just speculation. TheCzechDuck 21:11, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I think BioWare didn't add much detail to Tali's face because she was ment to have the helmet over her face.
 * But the texture is there, certainly more detailed than a placeholder. I'm just glad Tali isn't some kind of monstrosity under that mask. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 09:05, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I think she me be beautiful under the helmet. But who Knows? <:l

I do not think it merits discussion in the article proper, for Bioware never intended that Tali's face be shown. It is more detailed than a placeholder because, obviously, her face is visible, just obstructed by a mask. I would argue that whatever you found is not canon. TheCzechDuck 16:13, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Speaking from an animator's point of view - the face under the helmet would have considerably more texture than just a "place-holder" - the face and mask are most likely two separate objects, with the mask having a transparency material with shaders to allow just enough of the face texture underneath to be visible. It's actually a fairly simple process, but the wireframe underneath the mask would need to have enough depth and contrast to be seen through the trans mat. So whatever you saw in the helmet would just be the face the modeler built to be visible through the mask, hence the extra detail. Like TheCzechDuck said, I would not accept it as canon, simply a technical necessity. Vund223 18:43, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's not a question of canon, it's a question of completeness. Having a subsection on Tali's face and posting the texture and the concept art from ME1 there doesn't hurt. http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/fallout/images/0/08/Personal_Sig_Image.gif Tagaziel (call!) 09:24, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, this discussion was never about concept art, it was about glitching the camera or using a tool to see the texture model underneath the mask object. If you have a piece of concept art that shows her face, and you can confirm it comes from BioWare, then by all means, post it here on the talk page and let everyone take a look and voice their opinions about whether or not it warrants being in the article. However, as stated above, I do not think it merits a section, as BioWare never intended for her face to be seen (yet). Now, if there is a piece of concept art from way back during the early dev of ME1 that comes from BioWare, then it may have a place in the trivia section as "This is what she might have looked like" or "This is what she was going to look like." But CA cannot be used to say that this is what she looks like now, as CA is exactly that - concept. Vund223 14:14, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. One might as well put in descriptions and pictures gathered via non-gameplay-related tools of the Presidium in Mass Effect 2. It's simply not canon, nor was it meant to be taken thereas. TheCzechDuck 15:15, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I believe someone remembers that there *is* actually a concept art piece downloadable from ME1 website where her face is drawn as a normal human face, she even has eyebrows (so she might have hair). Kiadony 15:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)

Uh...could you link it? The Yoshiman 97 02:06, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

It is downloadable here. There, in the 'Concept Art' folder, file 'Concept11'. I've forgotten about this fan kit myself, and only recently remembered. This image can be found on the Internets but this is the most official source anyway. Oh and also, in 'The Art of ME' there's a page with quarian concepts which shows the lower half of the face, and there are lips. 

While everyone is so interested in Tali's face, I'd rather actually see her, well, body - what colour is her skin, does she have hair/scales/stripes/spots and such. Also, I wanna know what's on her head - hair or maybe some asari-like folds or something (I hope that she isn't just bald, at least). Kiadony 12:45, March 6, 2010 (UTC)

Tali plays poker?
Waiting until Tali is onboard to speak with Engineers Donnelly and Daniels in the mission Normandy: FBA Couplings, will get some extra dialogue should you agree to play poker with them. Tali will agree to play as well, stating (should Shepard win) that she thought she had a good poker face.

Tali/Garrus Conversation on Citadel
Does anyone know where to trigger the above?John117XL 02:51, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

It happens on the way to the upper level of Zakera Ward. Matt 2108 02:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * Are there any other requirements? I tried with both non-loyal and loyal, first time and after returning multiple times but did not trigger. Perhaps you have to run up/down 50 times, like the elevator achievement in ME1? Kd82 13:47, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Its random. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0a54Vm1ww8w JohnEdwa 03:49, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Happened to me OK first time. Walking slowly up the stairs from Level 27 to Level 28. Quite amusing. ComaDivine 10:18, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Quarian/Turian/Human Tissue "consumption" effect.
Citation from the article: "Oddly, Mordin doesn't mention the issues regarding quarian dextro-DNA as he does for a female Sheperd involved with Garrus, who also has dextro-DNA. Mordin advises a risk of a deadly allergic reaction if turian tissue is consumed by a female Sheperd, and therefore it would stand to reason that the same risk would apply to a quarian consuming human tissue."

A bit wrong logic. Chemistry doesn't work like this. Though some of the levo-isomeres of dextro-compounds in our body (or dextro-variants of levo-compounds) are poisonous, this is not automatically true (and it is even mentioned in the game Codex that effects of "levo-protein food" on "dextro-DNA species" vary, if you want to bound yourself to the in-game information). It is better to look at isomeres as just different chemical compounds in this case, as we do not know exact chemical composition of Turian skin/semen and Quarian/Turian organisms. So, if turian tissue (the kind that can be consumed during sexual act) can cause dangerous allergic reaction in human, this doesn't automatically mean that human tissue (the kind that can be consumed during sexual act) is poisonous for quarians/turians. The theory that the aforementioned phrase in the article is closer to speculation is also supported by the fact that Mordin doesn't mention anything about human tissue (the kind that can be consumed during sexual act) causing allergic reaction in turians, though obviously some tissue is "consumed" as a result of any kiss.

I am sorry if my language is not highly understandable, in my defence I can say that it is not my national.

AlNahar 07:50, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your English is quite good, so do not worry about that. Although I am not a scientist, your argument is very convincing. Do you think the citation from the article should be removed ? If so, I think we should remove it now. TheCzechDuck 17:25, February 17, 2010 (UTC)


 * Moving it to trivia :) It seems like an interesting thing to note, but not important or true enough to be in the main article --Lilliful 21:30, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, I just finished the talk with Mordin. He claims the "Oral contact with tissue dangerous." Maybe not as blatant as Garrus' talk, but just something to think about.Thannisofkage 01:37, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Tali in Freedom's Progress
On the last trivia note, it says that you can kill Tali in Freedom's Progress using a grenade launcher. Is that really true or should I just remove it? The Yoshiman 97 19:49, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lol yes. That is at best an untested and unverified bug. I'd say delete it. TheCzechDuck 21:09, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * OTOH, it would probably be polite to assume good faith on the part of the original editor. --DRY 21:15, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

I'm just gonna go and delete, no matter how funny that was. The Yoshiman 97 22:20, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say that the burden of proof is on you to disprove it before deleting it, given the video clip. It may be devconsoled, but until you try it, good faith should be assumed. --DRY 00:49, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I can see how the editor would want to put that in, but I don't think that you could KILL Tali just because of that one bug, given how vital she is to the story. Right after you find Veetor, Tali comes in to try to bring him back to the Flotilla, and Shepard is then thrust into a decision that might implicate the relationship between him and Tali, which is scripted into the game and cannot be skipped. And she is a big part of the main story too, since she is a recruitable party member, complete with 2 missions strictly related to her. You can't necessarily kill her, but I think you should put that under a new topic, like Bugs or something. The Yoshiman 97 23:03, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would just reword the existing trivia to indicate that the "death" is probably the result of an oversight on the part of the developers and, as such, has no permanent consequences. --DRY 18:46, February 20, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, that's fine. The Yoshiman 97 06:11, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

The little glitch causes the sceen where Tali confronts Shepard on who gets Veetor to cut short right before she appears, also the mission journal entry will not update to finish the mission.CyanDeadEye 01:25, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, cool The Yoshiman 97 04:11, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Killing Tali results in a skipped dialog and Veetor is later considered as if he went with Tali in my PC playthrough. Kd82 08:04, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

Oh, BTW guys, Tali was my romance option. I took her along for the final mission and (SPOILER) when the base is exploding my Shepard grabbed her hand to keep her from falling off, and she was the one who helps him into the ship. --Kluutak 12:23, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

@Kluutak: this is off topic... But I've done the same. Twice. First I had this ending with my FemShep, and then I played a Male Shep just for Tali: I recruited her as soon as possible, took her with me to all missions, romanced her and took her to the final fight JUST to get the same ending with her XD Kiadony 15:22, March 5, 2010 (UTC)