Talk:Mass Effect 2 Guide

Keeping everyone alive
Can somebody verify the conditions for losing squadmates on the Suicide Mission? After playing this mission once, it seems to me that all loyal squadmates lives and everybody else dies (e.g. non-loyal Legion and Assassin are killed before landing at the Collector base). 95.144.16.131 11:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's much more too it to that. It depends on who you select to do the different roles, and it appears that how long you take to do the final battle affects who dies as well. For example, I choose the "We'd better hurry." option and I guess I took too long, because Mordin died holding the line. He was alive before I left, so the only explanation is that he died while I was fighting the Reaper. However, this is only an assumption, and I too would like to see someone explain the conditions on how people will live or die.

The exact condition for the abduction of the Normandy crew would be interesting for those who don't want to lose squadmates or Normandy crew. 95.144.16.131 11:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * All I can say on that at this moment (having only completed one playthrough thus far) is that it is possible to lose loyal squadmates. I had all my squad members loyal, but Zaeed was killed. When it came time to divide the people up again (the second time, I think, when you needed to pick one biotic to do the shield, one squadmember to lead the diversion team through the halls of the ship, and one to lead the survivors back to the Normandy) I picked Zaeed to lead the diversion group, and when I got to the door to let him in after crossing the room under the biotic shield, he was killed. SpartHawg948 11:57, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * This will happen with anyone that is not consider leader status, AKA only Miranda/Jacob/Garrus will live by leading the Fire Team. Lotier 04:11, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it requires more than loyalty. Zaeed may not be tagged as a good character to lead a squad (which is surprising, given his experience as a merc). A loyal Garrus will die if you send him into the vents, and a loyal Jacob will cause a death if you have him create the biotic barrier. Also, I think the guide should include information on saving Kelly Chambers. I'm not 100% sure about the conditions necessary. I know from my two playthroughs that: If you don't chat up Kelly, and you don't go into the relay immediately after the attack, she dies. If you do chat up Kelly, and you do go into the relay immediately after the attack, she survives. I'm pretty sure chatting up Kelly doesn't make a difference, and all that matters is that you stage the rescue ASAP, but can someone confirm? -Ocdscale 16:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I also found in my game that a loyal Thane will also die if you send him into the vents. I'm really not sure how to prevent this. A loyal Zaeed will die if you tell him to lead the second group while you're under the biotic bubble. A loyal Jack will make it through the seeker swarm cave but I noticed that she was struggling by the end so I think you can't stay still at the breaks too long. I had dinner with Kelly and immediately went through the gate and she survived. A loyal Grunt will survive and arrive at the Normandy with no casualties if you send him back with the Normandy crew. Shepard also survived. Steviesteveo 22:49, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

I had chatted up Kelly enough to have the option to ask her to dinner (though I didn't) and did a bit of exploration before I did the final jump into the relay. I ended up saving her. I had Legion and Tali in my party at the time. KefkaticFanatic 17:42, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Saving Kelly involves going through the Omega 4 Mass Relay Immediately after your crew is abducted. If you do side missions after they get taken, at least half the crew, including Kelly, will die. Elamdri 07:14, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sorry, but I have to refute the theory that you have to go into the Omega 4 Relay right after the abduction in order to save the crew. In my playthrough, I took the time to visit all the major shopping areas (Ilium, The Citadel and Omega station), in order to get all the upgrades I had not yet purchased and could afford, and I still was able to rescue the whole crew... Maybe, it is only "Missions" you cannot engage before going into the Relay (I do not think "Assignments" would be a problem as most only involve traveling and interacting with NPC, which is very similar to the shopping activity I had, but as I have not tried either, I cannot be sure). Could someone having finished an assignment after the abduction and before going into the Relay confirm? Celorilm 09:34, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Someone put that having Legion escort the survivors causes them to die, but it didn't for me (they were Loyal). So who knows, man. I know that leading the fire teams seems to be awfully goddamned dangerous. 24.5.77.34 01:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I've been looking through things trying to figure it out, I messed up and deleted my save right before the Omega jump, but here is what I've put together so far. Mordin will die if left in Session 3. I believe it set up based on have enough leaders at the door. If you have 2 of the 3 leaders (Garrus/Miranda/Jacob) in your final group Mordin(/someone else?) will die. Any member will die if not loyal. Lotier 04:33, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Examine the table and conditions at this link. Also, possible spoilers. http://www.giantbomb.com/mass-effect-2/61-21590/how-to-survive-the-suicide-mission-no-plot-spoilers/35-385092/ --Balsa 04:57, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Good link. Useful data. Still need more data.
 * All links are pointing to the crew member not needing to be loyal in order to survive the suicide mission, but using them in any key position will get someone killed. Still can't figure out why Mordin will sometimes die in the "defend the door" position. I thought it had to do with keeping leader teammates in the position, but that didn't work (Garrus/Miranda final team, Mordin on escort, killed no one; while Garrus/Miranda final team, Grunt escort, kills Mordin)
 * Saving all squadmates and crew members seems like it would be the ultimate choice. And I think it's possible. Complete all missions/assignments up till getting the Reaper IFF. Going straight to the Collector's ship after completing the Reaper IFF, using S1:Tali/(Garrus/Miranda/Jacob) S2:Samara/Jack(with L5 upgrade???)/(Garrus/Miranda/Jacob)/Any Loyal S3:If Mordin still around, must be on final squad team, otherwise any squad combination will work.Lotier 09:10, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Section 2 - Legion
(Legion will die if sent with the survivors, so will zaeed.) (I sent Legion and he lived, so someone may want to check this)(This editior choose Legion to escort all three times he replayed this mission, and each time all the crew survived.) (I'm almost certain that a non-loyal team member will die if sent back as the escort.)


 * I cannot tell for Legion, I have not tried, but Zaeed can successfully perform the escort. I sent him in my playthrough and everybody survived. Was Zaeed loyal when you sent him (mine was)? Celorilm 09:41, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Abduction
If you have unexplored systems and open assignments at the time of the crew abduction, can you do them after the main story line (e.g don't want to loose anybody so head to Omega 4 instantly) or these should be done before the IFF mission? Kd82 10:29, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Assuming you survive the main storyline, you can complete any missions you have left (assuming any related squadmates also survived). Shihchiun 14:51, February 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * For Further Clarification... after the main story, it doesn't immediately go to credits and endgame like it did in ME1, it, like the game 'freelancer', after the campaign ends, it becomes an open universe-ish game to finish the sidelines? I think I did see something talked about to this... ahem... effect, but only talk, nothing I can 'source'. [minor edit: forgot to sign my comment] --AlexMcpherson 01:38, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I can confirm from experience that, after the Credits screen (which you can even skip), you are given the option to either end the game or return to the Normandy to finish any business you might have set aside, provided that no related squadmate was killed (everybody survived in my case) . One thing I cannot confirm is whether any leftout loyalty mission can successfully be performed afterwards or not, as I had completed all before entering the Omega-4 Relay...


 * Maybe should you consider posting such questions in the Forum section or your Talk page, as they are not really relevant to the purpose of this Talk page, which is (anyone, correct me if I am wrong) dicussing, before implementation, sensitive content changes for the Mass Effect 2 Guide page. Celorilm 14:52, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Legion loyal + Kelly survives possible?
I'm wondering at the moment, is it possible to do Legion's loyalty mission and still be able to rescue Kelly?TUNG84 10:59, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes it is possible, there is some limit of missions that can be done after the crew was "collected" and still be allowed to save them. One post I read listed it as one crew member dies for every mission done after the "collection".Lotier 11:15, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I did Legion's loyalty mission and saved Kelly, so it's definitely possible. --Imperialles 11:46, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is definitely possible. At least the way I did: I activated Legion alsmost immediately after recovering it from the derelict Reaper and, talking to it, managed to trigger its loyalty mission before the IFF was completely installed and therefore my crew abducted. So when the abduction occured. I have not tested doing the mission after the abduction occured though. Celorilm 14:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Restructuring Guide.
I'm wondering if the Guide should be restructured to better follow the path the player takes in accomplishing the mission's story. For starters, the recruit missions are completely jumbled and give no credence to which order they should be recruited and even what order they CAN be recruited. It's not possible to recruit Legion, Samara, Tali, or Thane before the player has recruited Garrus, Grunt, Mordin, and Jack; and completes the mission on Horizon, nor does the guide even really mention the Horizon mission or the Collector ship misson. I know that this game isn't as clearly deliniated into chapters as the first game was, but this current guide has no respect for the natural flow of the story.

In my opinion it should be divided into the following chapters.

Prologue


 * Save Joker


 * Awakening


 * Freedoms Progress

Chapter 1


 * Recruit The Professor


 * Recruit Archangel


 * Recruit The Warlord


 * Recruit The Convict


 * Horizon

Chapter 2


 * Recruit __________


 * Recruit __________


 * Collector Ship


 * Recruit __________


 * IFF

Chapter 3


 * Suicide Misson

Mind you that's just basic and I know there are other ways to structure it, but the point I'm trying to make is that the current format makes NO sense whatsoever.Elamdri 16:48, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I would call them Acts not Chapters. Lotier 16:54, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * The exact word is immaterial, Acts, Chapters, Episodes, whatever you wanna call it, it's just a filler term. I don't care about what it says, I'm promoting that the current STRUCTURE is sloppy and could be cleaned up quite a bit so that players looking for help would better understand the flow of the game. Elamdri 17:42, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I like collecting the loyalty missions next to the team members. However you can't immediately do the loyalty missions after recruiting someone, so it might be worth considering grouping it into recruiting missions and loyalty missions? It might also be worth explaining how to unlock the loyalty missions Steviesteveo 22:46, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

It would be useful if we also had a planet-resources guide, as I don't want to use too many probes that cost! Okay so I only did one planet then went to omega and recruited Mordin so far, but still! --AlexMcpherson 01:28, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Restructuring the guide (again).
Okay, it's me, 'alexmcpherson' again. I just split this into another section, because I thought this section of the talk was getting a bit too long. Here's what I imagine the 'contents' menu on the article should look like: Contents:
 * 1 From ME1 to ME2
 * 1.1 Character Carryover
 * 1.2 Game Mechanic Changes
 * 1.3 Notes
 * 2 Walkthrough
 * 2.1 Prologue
 * In the article, this point would detail that this section is played pretty much linearly.
 * 2.1.1 SR-1 Normandy
 * 2.1.2 Two Years Later
 * 2.1.3 Freedoms Progress
 * 2.2 Act I
 * In the article, this point would detail what sections you can play out-of-order (if any aren’t played in a specific order, that is.)
 * 2.2.1 Omega
 * 2.2.x Etcetera
 * 2.2._ Final mission of the act [something about ‘horizon’.]
 * 2.3 Act II
 * 2.3.x Etcetera
 * 2.3._ Collector Ship – How many missions/whatever before this happens.

And so forth. After the Walkthrough, ‘3’ and so on would be non-mission guides. I.e. Item-related (upgrading the ship, romance, etc.), These would be the guides to how to do the particular romances and the 'avoid this' etcetera. As I don't really know WikiCode, aside from the quad-dash-tidle thing to sign posts and colon to indent, I don't think I should be the one to do the restructure. That I haven't even started to go past recruiting Mordin too, is another point.--AlexMcpherson 01:57, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I really don't think that the Game Mechanic Changes are relevant to a walkthrough. I think it's good information, but not useful on this page. Lotier 05:31, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * By 'Game Mechanic Changes' I refer to certain differences that would screw up with an experienced ME1 players' gameplay flow. i.e. the changed combat system. And its no 'Mass Effect 2 Campaign Walkthrough' its, 'Mass Effect 2 Guide'. As the notes are there anyway, I think it just needs structuring properly.--AlexMcpherson 13:22, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I'll take a gander at it (I can do wikicode pretty well), but I'd like to know if anyone objects or if we need to build a consensus before going ahead. UERD 02:02, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Your proposed restructuration makes sense to me, especially after you have taken into account the request to keep the wording as much as possible (Acts vs. Chapters, for instance). One question though: what would you do with the loyalty missions? My proposal would be to keep them in a specific section (2.4 probably), but before the Act III (which would be section 2.5), as the effect on the final mission outcome can be dramatic if you have skipped all of them. Celorilm 14:19, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

I like the changes Longzheng 14:37, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty, and how it affects other decisions afterwards
Okay, so I've not played beyond the first recruit (for me: mordin.) and most of the, spoilers, I've read are in the Talk sections (thankfully, I don't mind spoilers, infact, certain ones mean I'm willing to do several silmultaneous playthroughs both male and female, with a base 'this is what works' character. So it's cheating of a sort, whatever :P) But it seems to me that the, ahm, abduction, the decisions you make about who does what and the results of those decisions can differ based on if you got that persons' loyalty or not.

So would someone mind collating the data from many players to see if there is a discrepancy between those results when the character involved's loyalty is different. And did that look as tongue-twisting as I just thought it did.

Just post here who you sent, what the loyalty of those were when you did, and a yay or nay result (yay being the good one obviously)... Oh, where's my manners. Please. *puppydog eyes*. --AlexMcpherson 01:37, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Timing Error?
"during this part of the game after recruiting all characters you must go on board a collecters ship this will happen after the "illusive man" contacts you he says that a turian cruiser disabled it after you damaged it back on horizon"

I was forcibly sent to the collector's ship (could not access galaxy map) before recruiting either Thane or Samara. I'm not sure what the trigger is, but it's not recruiting all characers. Twilsemail 16:39, February 2, 2010 (UTC).


 * It's not how many you've recruited, it's how many missions you've completed. A mission is defined as any quest that ends in a Illusive man summary screen.Killswitch19 18:14, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Death in Session 2
I have gotten up to the part with the biotic shield. I had fully upgraded the Normandy and noone had died thus far. I chose Zaeed and Garrus in my crew, Tali to crawl through the tube, and Jacob to lead 1st fire team, then I chose Jack for the shield, Mordin for the escort, and Miranda to lead my team, Zaeed and Garrus again in my crew, I had got to the cutscene after the Shield part and Garrus stayed in the open and was abducted by the swarm, Is this because Jack wasn't loyal (I chose Miranda in their fight after blowing up the jail). Someone tell me why Garrus "died", because I really liked him, or is he even dead? Gerry Spring 21:59, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Adding in one-time only items in the walkthrough
There are a lot of items that are acquired in the loyalty/recruitment missions that are only available so long as you are in that mission, and lost forever once completed. If you are trying to max upgrades, complete all quests etc., this would seem like something to include. I've been working on the upgrade part (http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect_2:_Upgrade_Locations) for weapons which would make it easy to tie in, but someone would have to add in quest items as well (ie. missing locket, forged IDs, etc.) Thoughts? Killswitch19 18:13, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * The article is titled 'guide'. I would hazard a guess that in the proposed restructured format, there would be like a notice about various things like above, and those be in a section below the campaign walkthrough part. I dunno, this is the first game guide I've been suggesting the strucutre of. --AlexMcpherson 19:33, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Current Collector Ship Mission is Wrong
Currently, the Collector Ship Mission says that the Mission begins after the player collects all the party memebers except Legion. This is untrue. I was forced to do the Mission after Recruiting Tali and Thane, but I had yet to do the Justicar Mission. I'm not sure what triggers the mission, but the current iteration is false. Elamdri 21:56, February 2, 2010 (UTC)