Talk:Reaper

I think someone has been vandalising this page...


 * Don't worry it's fixed. Bioevil087  14:11, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

Does it seem like the first portion of this article, before the spoiler warning, is a bit over dramatic? It does not seem to fit with the rest of the wiki, in that it provides information that seems assumed, rather than backed up by knowledge from the game. I cite especially where the editor(s) speak about the funding and work hours spent to find out about the reapers, highlighted right after explaining that there were very few who were interested... my point being, is all this information accurate, and is it currently presented in the most clean and (video game based) factual way possible? Just curious for input. Also, it should at the very least be moved to the section after that spoiler tag.

Everything's after the tag, now, and I've rewritten the most flagrant bits of melodrama. Also, it seems like the concept of indoctrination should have its own section, at least-possibly an article.

Is it correct to refer to the Reapers as AI, if they were not created by anyone? AI has a creator. --84.69.214.28 22:27, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * The salarian councillor describes Sovereign as an AI. Sovereign claimed no one created the Reapers, but it also claimed to be invincible. If the Reapers are machines, they had to be built by somebody originally, and I'm guessing they either don't want to remember that, or don't want to admit it to organic races. -- Tullis 23:08, 5 January 2008 (UTC)


 * Point taken, it would be interesting if it was found out that the machines have no creator, I think this is a grey area deliberately created by the writers to avoid awkward questions, paradoxes and the sort.
 * It's also logically impossible. Molecules really can't fall together and become self determining robots made from liquifed sentient beings by chance, it's different for organic life because that's fundamentally a set of complex chemical reactions but natural processes simply can't program. Given that Reapers have been around for least 37 million years ago (you visit a reaper disabled that long ago in the second game), and Liara thinks that someone (the Reapers) have been removing evidence of previous civilisation I think it's simply because only the Reapers actually know at this point who invented this and they're not telling anyone.

Speculation
Moved from main article:

It should also be noted that the Reapers may not just be a race of vessel machines as we are led to believe. In the vision that Commander Shepard experienced from the Prothean Beacon there were glimpses of what looked like half machine, half organic beings harvesting the Protheans. You also catch a glimpse of one these beings mouths screaming in the vision. This would also explain why Sovereign actually has an interior and the infrastructure to carry passengers. If they were merely a race of synthetic vessels they would have no need to have the ability to transport organics, unless it is to disperse their indoctrinated slaves across the galaxy. What is also seen in this vision is what looks to be synthetic matter "growing" onto an organic surface. This hints that the dragon's teeth are in fact Reaper technology that turns organic material to synthetic, and it could hint at one of two things or both: the harvesting processes might include turning the advanced species of the galaxy to artificial life and enslaving them, or that new Reapers are "grown" out of the harvested races. If the mecha-organic Reaper theory is used, it can be postulated that, given the "billion year old genetically-engineered starship" (the 'leviathan of Dis') found on Jartar, the Reapers have existed in their present state for at least a billion years.


 * if know one created the reapers maybe they are like a galatic god of some sort?-electrobolt


 * They want you to believe they were not created and that they are invincible. However at the end of the game it is proved that they are not invincible, and so I have my doubts regarding the fact that they are "eternal" and that they have no creator. ;) We will see in the sequel. Darkdrium 03:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Agreed. They're machines. They have to have been built by someone-a machine can't simply evolve. Sovereign was probably just playing psychological warfare games-he seems to think very poorly of organics, and might think we'd buy that.Freemanhasaposse 03:44, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Speaking of speculation, what about that bit at the end of the first section about reverse-engineering of mass relays possibly being the trigger for the Reaper's return? I don't think there is enough substantial proof for this to be included. The dialogue of the game suggests that Sovereign has been trying to activate the Citadel relay for some time by the time Shepard becomes involved, and the Citadel races appear to have no idea of how to reverse engineer a relay. Maybe that line should go until there is more conclusive evidence. SpartHawg948 17:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Also, (just thought of this) how would the Reapers know about the reverse engineered relay? They had no knowledge of Ilos, as Vigil clearly states, because the Protheans wisely kept Ilos "of the grid" (ie no records or data on file, extremely compartmentalized, need-to-know, etc..) It's obvious that sometime later Sovereign (or Saren) learned about the relay, but it also seems obvious to me that the Reapers would have had no knowledge of the relay before they attacked. SpartHawg948 17:55, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

I think it's obvious that the reapers where inspired by the saberhagen bezerkers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_(Saberhagen)

I personaly believe that the droid things in the pre E3 trailer were Reapers. Drsdino 04:55, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Who’s to say that machines can't evolve? There is much in common with robots and organic life. Wires are simply metal nerves, the creatures could have metal skin, and the creatures could use something similar to the geth’s synthetic rubber muscle. The turains already have a metal faceplate growing on their head and the synthetic muscle has already been developed in the real world. On a faraway bizarre world in another galaxy these sorts of creatures could evolve. All that makes us organic is our carbon base but what if a species is, say, titanium based? These creatures would look very robotic. After all, all we are is a cloud of atoms animated by chemical reactions, is that so much different than a robot? By the way, I think that the reapers are a human sized species too, and that sovereign was simply starship shaped because the races of the galaxy would take notice if they saw the reapers in their true form running around the stars. Well that’s my theory; say what you like about it.

I've got a theory thats particularly interesting but requires some knowledge in quantum physics and some creativity to understand. I believe that the Reapers were originally energy beings that existed in the chaotic aftermath of the Big Bang. In the 300,000 years it took for the Universe to cool down, they learned all about they the Universe can and does work, as energy beings should last forever (so long as the circumstances remain constant). However, as the Universe cooled and matter and energy decoupled (in the early Universe, matter and energy were the same, and existed as one, allowing energy beings to exist, but when it cooled down, energy seperated fom matter), energy beings couldn't exist, so they pulled together warship bodies of "Reaper alloy", becoming the Reapers we know and hate (or love, depending on who you are). The reason they destroy organic life is either one of the following:

1. They're really ticked that we evolved when they couldn't, and add insult to injury by destroying us at our apex

or (As I believe)

2.They aren't really "destroying" or "killing" as much as "cleansing". I am addressing the "synthetic material growing on organic material". This might actually be the Reapers "cleansing" the Protheans, turning them into geth-like beings, so that they can (as a Reaper would say)"progress to absolute perfection, as we have". This would explain the prupose and origins of the Dragon's Teeth: To "purify" organics.

Thats my theroy, point out any flaws I may have.


 * Ok, a few thoughts:


 * 1) If they are energy beings, why would it matter if energy and matter began seperating b/c the universe cooled? They're energy beings, after all, not energy and matter beings (if I am understanding you correctly).
 * 2) If they were unable to exist in their prior state b/c of this cooling, how would cobbling together starship hull bodies help them in the least bit? Wouldn't they still be energy beings inside starship hulls? Energy beings still susceptible to the cooling that was threatening them from the get-go?
 * 3) They state that they aim to bring about the extinction of their targets. Pretty straightforward, that part. Extinction.
 * 4) From what we've seen, based on the statements of Sovereign, the Reapers feel nothing but contempt for organic beings, and for that matter, they feel pretty much the same way about the geth (viewing them as nothing but tools to be discarded when their usefulness is at an end). You generally don't elevate those you hold in contempt to anywhere near your level by helping them "progress to absolute perfection".
 * Those are my basic thoughts regarding potential flaws. Also as an aside, I don't see anything in there that requires any real knowledge in quantum mechanics (as quantum physics is more properly known). I have no real knowledge of it other than that obtained in passing, mostly from SciFi, and I think I followed the theory pretty well. Also, please remember to sign your edit, which can be done by using four tildes (this guy ~) SpartHawg948 12:32, October 27, 2009 (UTC)

This is where the quantum mechanics comes in: In order for a normal being to exist, it must exist as matter, taking up space. The reason for this being that if a being is not matter, they are just random energy flucuations, incapable of thought. If matter and energy are one, as in a young universe, then energy beings can exist. As the universe cooled, The Reapers put together bodies of thier choice, like creating a custom baby. This protects them in the way that they become matter, with super-complex "brains" put together for thought. A cooling universe means matter becomes predominant, meaning the reapers can only survive as matter, or synthetics, in this case. As to the contempt, I didn't say that they were doing that, only that it addressed the dragon's teeth and the images of the Protheans being "cleansed". They could just be angry because the organics thrive were they cannot. Another thought: What if the crtical level of advancement the Vanguard (Sovereign, in this case) was waiting for a level of technology that could mean the Reapers could, once again, be freed of thier physical bodies, and once again become energy. And they "purify" organics that could help them achieve this goal? And they wish the organics to progress down thier path (Citadel and mass relays) so that they are easy targets? If this is all true, the Reapers likely wait steadily longer and longer, waiting for a higher amount of advancement every time the cycle has failed. It is likely a fusion of both jealosy/fury towards the thriving organics, and a desire to be free. In the end, however, thier purpose (until we know for sure) is truly unknowable, and likely incomprehensible for the average organic. Any other points I left out? --Nra &#39;Vadumee 21:10, November 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Please keep speculation from getting out of hand on talk pages. See the Style Guide: Talk Pages section; talk pages are ideally meant to discuss the article itself, not post exceptionally long theories. They take up too much space and make it difficult to keep track of discussions about the page. Again: we are not a forum. --Tullis 21:45, November 3, 2009 (UTC)

Based on my personal knowledge of writing stories, I can strongly say that the "Reapers" are somehow the future incarnations of the "Geth". I point towards the sentient Geth named "Legion", and the phrase the "Reaper" Vanguard (The one Reaper we were fighting in the first game) used to refer to itself, possibly meaning that it originated from "Legion". And to me it seems that the "Reaper's" cycle of death is a way to harvest parts to create more of them. In essense, they are amassing corpses and using the natural minerals and such within the bodies to create a Reaper ship. The new types of Husks can be evidence to this. How the "Reapers" being futuristic "Geth" I believe is by some sort of conclusion in the final game where they are somehow sent back in time. Though this is all speculation.


 * Based on my personal experience with... well, I don't think personal experience really factors into this at all, I'd have to say I'm skeptical of that claim. I mean, the Reapers feel nothing but contempt for the geth, as is stated more than once. The phrase "We are Legion" is of course a Biblical reference, and one that fit the Reapers to a T. The connection between this statement and the geth named Legion (please remember that, with only a couple of exceptions, race names are not capitalized) has yet to be fleshed out, but I sincerely hope it has nothing to do with a lame Star Trek style time travel cop-out. Also, if they are simply obtaining minerals to build more Reapers, why go after organics? As the codex entry on Husks states, the amount of resources recoverable from a body are minuscule, and you have to factor in the fact that each time, the yield is going to vary greatly, what with the differing numbers of and physiology of sentient life they harvest on various go-arounds. If it's about materiel, why not just strip-mine the hell out of the planets with materials they need and be done with it? Sorry, but I for one have to file that theory securely under the heading of "Highly Improbable". SpartHawg948 21:11, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Fair Enough. Now that you mention it, that would suck if it did turn out to be the Star Trek time travel angle. 24.87.4.53

ALTHOUGH...Now after finishing my 5th playthrough of ME after I stupidly deleted my maxed out save file, I redid a quest where a bunch of Scientist find a bunch of ancient Dragon teeth or whatever the hell they're called. Those spike things that make husks. Might be something to think about... 24.87.4.53 22:38, December 1, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not gonna lie... don't see what that has to do with anything... it certainly doesn't seem to relate at all to your last post! :P I mean, it's never stated that the geth created dragon's teeth, just that they use them. They worship the Reapers, so in all likelihood they uncovered some caches of Reaper dragon's teeth and are using them themselves. SpartHawg948 23:09, December 1, 2009 (UTC)
 * O I always assumed the Geth invented the Dragon Teeth stuff. So much for my theory. 24.87.4.53 08:48, December 2, 2009 (UTC)
 * Remember Vigil? How he said that the Reapers indocrinated some of the protheans and used them to harvest the planets? Also, Saren was implanted by Sovereign, and Sovereign was able to use thes implants to control Saren. Perhaps the Reapers implanted a few of the Protheans so they could take control of their bodies and oversee the harvesting. Also, it is possible that the Reapers have the space inside for carrying indocrinated organics, and for storing the harvested technologies. Effectofthemassvariety 19:49, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

I got this bit of pure speculation from a series of cool books I've ben reading. I don't know if any of you have heard of the Fermi Paradox but a solution these books suggest is that a species would come along that sees its only way of survival as eradicating any other civilization that emerges before it becomes a threat. Maybe this is what the reapers have done and just streamlined the process with the mass relay network. The one found in the book was a giant ship and was believed to have been originally an organic mind downloaded to electronic equipment. Who knows, but I thought it was a cool idea.

The cycle
So the Protheans disappeared 50,000 years ago, right? Pretty much all organic life was wiped out in the galaxy at that time? Would that not include early humans? How are we still around? I mean, we were just losing our hair at 200,000 years ago. We were already using tools around 75,000 years ago. Our first art appeared 50,000 years ago. Does nobody else find that little discrepancy odd? If the Reapers are so dangerous and methodical, how did they miss us? The only conclusion that I can draw is that we were not worth their time. But what about the other races? The asari discovered the Citadel when we were still evolving. That can only mean that they were at an even more advanced state of evolution 50,000 years ago. I mean, call me ignorant to the lore, but I think I see a hole in the story here. 24.5.119.163 04:48, 28 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not all organic life was wiped out 50,000 years ago. The Reapers specifically targeted the Protheans, who were the only spacefaring species at that time. It might be that they're only interested in cultures with advanced technology; if they keep repeating the cycle, it makes sense that they'd spare primitive races without anything worth harvesting yet, and come back for them later. --Tullis 13:07, 28 May 2009 (UTC)

Its been stated by the Reapers and Protheans that all "advanced" life was targeted for whatever reason. The way they did it was that the Reapers hunted down any advanced civilizations that had contact with their technology I.E. mass relays and the citadel which made it easy to find their victims. Back 50000 years ago we were spared because the reapers would have no reason to come to us and cleanse(we were still evolving). So in the previous 50000 years the Protheans were the only advanced race. There might have been others but the Protheans were most prominent. All the races today were not a space faring civilization at the time of the prothean extiction and thus were spared. In a galaxy this big there are sure to be species that would have been spared if Soveriegn had his way because they were not in the technological criteria to be exterminated.--Majordomo50y 21:31, November 9, 2009 (UTC)
 * That's pretty much exactly what I said above. : ) --Tullis 21:33, November 9, 2009 (UTC)

Dead Reaper
I didn't see any dead reaper in the enemies dev diary... Did I miss something or did someone just get something wrong here? --84.56.115.116 15:23, November 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * I believe what is being referred to can be seen 0:45 into the clip. SpartHawg948 18:10, November 22, 2009 (UTC)

Does anyone else think that that might have been Ploba? Gigantic machinery, red background... --LBCCCP 19:22, November 27, 2009 (UTC)

New theory on Reaper cycle of extinction
It is possible that the Reapers have reached the pinnicle of their evolution and are incapable of imagination or new ideas. To this end, as all technology is based off of the mass relays and they are Reaper technology, new galactic civilisations may come up with a never before imagined technology based on this. The Reapers may incorporate this into their design during the extinction cycle, thus evolving further. -- 86.161.114.51


 * I think this idea is actually really good! I wouldn't have thought of it, but it seems to make sense. Why else would the Reapers harvest the technology of races like the Protheans? Don't the Reapers have a big chip on their... um... hulls? If organic life is so inferior, then why do they even need them. I'm speaking rhetorically, of course. There are plenty of possible explainations for the way the Reapers act, and why they do what they do. I'm just saying that this theory is very compelling, and very interesting. Effectofthemassvariety 19:38, December 13, 2009 (UTC)

Well the problem with this theory is, the Reapers put up the relays to SPECIFICALLY guarantee that any sentient race goes down a certain technological path, instead of another one that might be a weakness to them. This doesnt make any sense if the Reapers have reached the pinnacle of their technology. Wouldnt you want fresh new ideas to incorporate unto your own instead of pushing for the same thing over and over again? 24.87.4.53 14:17, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well there is the one planet race where they supposedly have a weapon against Reapers but are all dead and there is some eccentric volus who had visions trying to find it. It's all hinted at, just don't remember which planet.--Xaero Dumort 18:43, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * Klencory.
 * And I can't believe I knew that without looking. --Tullis 18:49, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * lol and I just finally found it while looking. Wonder which of us is more embarrassed.--Xaero Dumort 18:59, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, no, I think it's still me. --Tullis 19:22, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * If it makes you feel any better, I also thought "Klencory" as soon as I heard 'planet' and 'eccentric volus'. However, I also remembered that there is no mention of any sort of weapon against Reapers there, just "Lost crypts of beings of light". Honestly, when I read that, an offensive weapon was one of the last thoughts that entered my mind. The first, actually, based on the fact that the crypts were created to protect organics from the synthetics was that maybe it was something along the lines of a shield world like in the Halo series. So yeah, no mention of anti-Reaper "weapons", just crypts that can supposedly protect organics from "machine devils". SpartHawg948 21:20, December 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * See, I hear beings of light that were created to protect from machine devils and I think weapon. Defensive weapon, but still.--Xaero Dumort 09:01, December 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Fair enough... seems like we're gravitating to different part of the entry. You're looking mostly at the part about beings of light "created at the dawn of time to protect organic life from synthetic 'machine devils.'" which I admit, could be construed as a weapon of some sort, while I'm looking more at the part about the crypts of the aforementioned beings of light, and crypts makes me think structures, hence defensive structures. That, and the fact that the crypts are the crypts of the beings of light is what led me more to the defensive rather than offensive theory. SpartHawg948 09:07, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

Here's a funny theory.Maybe the Reaper's way of reproduction is based on the cicle.(i don't want to spoil the game so this is the only hint i'm giving)If you don't believe me you may as well wait until the release of the game.188.27.101.111 20:56, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Call of Cthulu/Lovecraft
Is it just me that thinks that the Reaper connection with H.P Lovecraft's Cthulu deserves more attention than a single bullet point? It just seems that the design of Sovereign itself is very much based off of Cthulu what with the tentalcle/cuttlefish face, the terrifying horror that humans can't comprehend, the consumption of lesser species, the indoctrination of humans. Just seems to warrant a little more talking about.
 * If there's a documented source for these comparisons, then sure, it warrants more attention than a single bullet point. If there isn't a source and it's speculation, than one bullet point is completely consistent with site policy. SpartHawg948 00:31, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Appearance


" Theoretically, should the current extinction event have come to pass, the next cycle would have seen Reapers resembling humans, salarians, turians, asari, or any number of species the Reapers felt worthy. The current Reaper fleet resembles Protheans, as they were the last species to be harvested by the Reapers."



I have a bit of a problem with this. I agree that they do take their appearance after the organics from which they form themselves, but from what we know about how the Protheans looked, the current reapers don't look anything like them. The Protheans from what we can see were bipedal, typical alien looking creatures. SPOILER That would look quite similar to the Collectors for obvious reasons. END SPOILER. Sovereign, and the other Reapers we've seen (save one exception) look like squid like creatures. Also, the events at the end of ME 2, don't prove that this is their reproductive cycle, or that they even require one. It could have been developed as a tactical advantage for the future, as Shepard was the first (in our knowledge) to prevent plan A from occurring. Nevertheless, until it is proven why they do this, it remains purely speculation and shouldn't be presented as fact on the wiki. Berychance 05:37, January 31, 2010 (UTC)