Talk:Commander Shepard/Archive1

Shepard's Death
How does Shepard die at the end of mass effect 2 in the collector base? I just finished my first playthrough and everyone survived. I didn't even see a place where his death could have occurred.Dtemps123 02:12, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've heard it's right at the end, when diving for the shuttle. If enough people have already died, there's no one to help Shep get aboard. Matt 2108 02:14, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, the asari known as Morinth can engage in a sexual encounter with Shepard at the end of the suicide mission, resulting in the untimely death of Shepard.

Shepard's Name
"has the same name as the Stargate Atlantis[1] character of the same name" is that even a proper sentence?


 * Just wanted to point out too, since someone else decided to post this tidbit on the page recently. John Shepard does, in fact, NOT share a name with a character from Stargate Atlantis. He has a similar name. The character from SG:A is named John Sheppard. Two P's. So please, no more of this "they have the same name" nonsense. SpartHawg948 21:07, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Just trying to add perspective, but fans of the Stargate series may rebut the "Two P's" argument by comparing it to the [|O'Neil/O'Neill O'Neil/O'Neill thing SG-1 had]. The similarities between the settings of Mass Effect and Stargate (the series) are numerous enough to not discount the idea that Mass Effect may have had a little inspiration from Stargate. SiY28 02:10, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not really a valid comparison, is it? The O'Neil/O'Neill thing is an example of retcon within one fictional universe. It was originally O'Neil until the series aired, at which point it became O'Neill. And of course nothing of the sort has happened with Colonel Sheppard. The Shepard/Sheppard thing, far from being an in-universe retcon, is an attempt to compare individuals from entirely different fictional universes. Now, were the wonderful powers that be to retcon Colonel Sheppard into Colonel John Shepard, I'd agree with you. Until that happens, though, there really isn't a leg for this 'Two P's' argument to stand on. It's similar (but not identical) names, and some similarities between the settings of ME and SGA, but no more than you find between ME and most other sci-fi. SpartHawg948 02:37, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm not saying ME should acknowledge any kind of inspiration from SG, but I would like to debate that the idea isn't so unfounded. Of course it's not an exact comparison between Sheppard and Shepard, as they're not even in the same universe. Calling Shepard Jack O'Neil would be too obvious. It would be more of a subtle nod to SG if they grabbed another character, and changed the name by simply adding another letter like Shepard/Sheppard turned out. It's kind of like saying apples are like oranges despite being different because they are sweet fruit people like to eat; as opposed to saying apples and oranges are completely different, because apples aren't oranges. It would be hard to implement a complete 1:1 replication of the O'Neil/O'Neill scene. I agree, on its own, the Shepard/Sheppard thing just looks like coincidence; but considering it is only one among other things that can be compared to SG makes it look more like a nod to it. I can't speak for others, but personally when I first played ME1, I found the idea of people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy a huge similarity between SG and ME; the notion being one of the main foundations of both universe's settings. Also to clarify, the "Two P's" argument was a name I gave for yours, being quoted from your original post; mine would be more like the two l's. SiY28 06:24, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have to take issue with the idea that an influence isn't unfounded. And frankly, the 'Two Ps/Two Ls' thing isn't really a solid foundation, or even a weak one. So lets take a look at this. I'll also have to take issue with how you characterized both ME and the Stargate series (especially SGA) when you said you "found the idea of people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy a huge similarity between SG and ME". The problem here is that the description you gave doesn't match either ME or SG. In neither case has the ancient dead race 'vanished without a trace', it's debatable whether either race is actually 'dead' (the Ancients ascended, and the Protheans [who didn't actually create the Mass Relays but are popularly credited with having done so] aren't exactly dead either, and the ACTUAL creators of the Mass Relays are most certainly alive), Mass Relays aren't what I'd call gates, being more like the catapults found on aircraft carriers, and that should about cover it. So yeah, none of the similarities you pointed out are really that similar. Were there any others you had in mind? SpartHawg948 06:50, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * A few more, but none of them count for anything from your perspective if you hold on to saying apples and oranges are completely different, because apples aren't oranges. In the world of fictional writing, if ME wrote apples, and SG wrote apples, it kinda conflicts with certain copyright laws. Take Battlestar Galactica/Star Wars, and Family Guy/Simpsons: completely different stories, very similar show elements. It would be very hard to deny that the former wasnt inspired by the latter on both accounts (respectively), especially considering Seth MacFarlane admit inspiration from the Simpsons. I'm saying I see these strong similarities present in Stargate and Mass Effect, but it looks like you're refuting this because Mass Effect isn't a Stargate clone. As I said, I could expand more on these simliarities, but I will refrain if you insist on denying these similarities because they arent identical. SiY28 22:00, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that apples and oranges are completely different. I'm saying that in order to have a comparison, you need something specific that is similar. Not something vague (like saying they're both fruit) or something that is purely subjective (i.e. that they are sweet fruit people like to eat). I'm not refusing to listen because they aren't identical. I'm pointing out that the items you bring up aren't similar, and that your characterization of the situations and comparisons is inaccurate. That was, after all, the gist of my last comment, that your statement that both SG and ME feature "people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy" was inaccurate on so many levels. About the only parts that ring true there are 'people', 'an ancient race's... technology', 'to travel the galaxy'. All the more specific parts were incorrect, pretty blatantly so. And the idea of people using the technology of an ancient race to travel the galaxy is pretty common in sci-fi. So again, if you have more support for your idea, please present it. Refusing to do so and painting me as "insist[ing] on denying these similarities because they arent[sic] identical" is disingenuous, to say the least. SpartHawg948 22:08, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the general impression I got from all your posts have been saying that because they aren't identical, they're not similar; you've tried to refute both my posts by saying as much. Starting with the last point, If mass relays were actual gates, that would hit the copyright laws pretty hard. But the gates and relays themselves function and appear very similarly: point to point FTL and near instantaneous in connection, capable of making connections to multiple gates/relays in a network, used extensively in the galaxy by people other than the creators, scalable to make smaller unit transfers. Onto the Protheans and Ancients: they're both ancient (not pyramid ancient, mammoth ancient), both vanished mysteriously and relatively abruptly without a trace and presumed dead, both credited with the creation of the relays/gates, and many technological advances credited to recovered artifacts, though use of the original gates and inability to replicate them fully is prevalent. These are the similarities in the background (and is still fact about the Protheans for many of the resident of the ME galaxy); you dont learn about the original creators and the ultimate fate of the Protheans until much later in the game, same goes for the Ancients. By then the story arc should have changed enough to avoid plaigarism, which it did. Anyways, drawing back to people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy. You have acknowledged 'people', 'an ancient race's... technology', 'to travel the galaxy', which was already most of the sentence, though I don't know why you removed "using". I have elaborated on the " dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace)". As for the "(gates in particular)", though I admit relays arent exactly (star)gates, they are more so than catapults which have no recieveing end, nor a means of returning to the point of origin. SiY28 22:42, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I've never said that it isn't valid because it isn't identical. That's putting words in my mouth. There have to be similarities though, and there aren't. And it would be possible to make things much more similar than ME and SG are currently. You say that mass relays couldn't be actual gates because that could possibly violate copyright laws. This is, of course, not the case at all. If it were, the creators of Stargate and Babylon 5 would be at each others throats (compare stargates, and particularly SGA's spacegates to B5s jumpgates), and neither franchise would likely have existed in the first place, as either George Lucas' or Gene Roddenberry's people would have been after them, as futuristic gates left by advanced civilizations used to travel long distances are concepts that have been in Star Wars and Star Trek since the '70s. SO clearly, they could have made mass relays gates if they had wanted to, without fear of copyright issues. As for similarities between the backgrounds of Protheans and Ancients, I can't think of any. Can you please elaborate? Also, bear in mind that if we use the 'well you don't learn what happened to the Protheans or that they didn't create the mass relays till late in the game/into ME2' theory, shouldn't the same apply to Stargate? After all, for quite some time, the gates were thought to be the work of the Goa'uld. And they and the Protheans are quite dissimilar. And again, the without a trace bit does not apply to the Protheans. Traces of them abound. Entire planets (like Feros) where their cities still stand. Sites like the one on Mars which allowed humans to finally leave the solar system. Prothean beacons, like the one on Eden Prime. Trinkets, like the one the Consort gives Shep. Pyramids on all sorts of planets. These are all common knowledge to the people of the galaxy, so the Protheans most certainly did not vanish without a trace. Far from it. They vanished in a manner more akin to the residents of Easter Island, or the ancient Egyptians or Mycenaeans. They aren't around, but traces of them are everywhere. Finally, as to the catapult bit, I was referring more to the launching principle. SpartHawg948 23:03, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not saying that apples and oranges are completely different. I'm saying that in order to have a comparison, you need something specific that is similar. Not something vague (like saying they're both fruit) or something that is purely subjective (i.e. that they are sweet fruit people like to eat). I'm not refusing to listen because they aren't identical. I'm pointing out that the items you bring up aren't similar, and that your characterization of the situations and comparisons is inaccurate. That was, after all, the gist of my last comment, that your statement that both SG and ME feature "people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy" was inaccurate on so many levels. About the only parts that ring true there are 'people', 'an ancient race's... technology', 'to travel the galaxy'. All the more specific parts were incorrect, pretty blatantly so. And the idea of people using the technology of an ancient race to travel the galaxy is pretty common in sci-fi. So again, if you have more support for your idea, please present it. Refusing to do so and painting me as "insist[ing] on denying these similarities because they arent[sic] identical" is disingenuous, to say the least. SpartHawg948 22:08, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, the general impression I got from all your posts have been saying that because they aren't identical, they're not similar; you've tried to refute both my posts by saying as much. Starting with the last point, If mass relays were actual gates, that would hit the copyright laws pretty hard. But the gates and relays themselves function and appear very similarly: point to point FTL and near instantaneous in connection, capable of making connections to multiple gates/relays in a network, used extensively in the galaxy by people other than the creators, scalable to make smaller unit transfers. Onto the Protheans and Ancients: they're both ancient (not pyramid ancient, mammoth ancient), both vanished mysteriously and relatively abruptly without a trace and presumed dead, both credited with the creation of the relays/gates, and many technological advances credited to recovered artifacts, though use of the original gates and inability to replicate them fully is prevalent. These are the similarities in the background (and is still fact about the Protheans for many of the resident of the ME galaxy); you dont learn about the original creators and the ultimate fate of the Protheans until much later in the game, same goes for the Ancients. By then the story arc should have changed enough to avoid plaigarism, which it did. Anyways, drawing back to people using an ancient dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace) race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy. You have acknowledged 'people', 'an ancient race's... technology', 'to travel the galaxy', which was already most of the sentence, though I don't know why you removed "using". I have elaborated on the " dead (and mysteriously vanished without a trace)". As for the "(gates in particular)", though I admit relays arent exactly (star)gates, they are more so than catapults which have no recieveing end, nor a means of returning to the point of origin. SiY28 22:42, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) I've never said that it isn't valid because it isn't identical. That's putting words in my mouth. There have to be similarities though, and there aren't. And it would be possible to make things much more similar than ME and SG are currently. You say that mass relays couldn't be actual gates because that could possibly violate copyright laws. This is, of course, not the case at all. If it were, the creators of Stargate and Babylon 5 would be at each others throats (compare stargates, and particularly SGA's spacegates to B5s jumpgates), and neither franchise would likely have existed in the first place, as either George Lucas' or Gene Roddenberry's people would have been after them, as futuristic gates left by advanced civilizations used to travel long distances are concepts that have been in Star Wars and Star Trek since the '70s. SO clearly, they could have made mass relays gates if they had wanted to, without fear of copyright issues. As for similarities between the backgrounds of Protheans and Ancients, I can't think of any. Can you please elaborate? Also, bear in mind that if we use the 'well you don't learn what happened to the Protheans or that they didn't create the mass relays till late in the game/into ME2' theory, shouldn't the same apply to Stargate? After all, for quite some time, the gates were thought to be the work of the Goa'uld. And they and the Protheans are quite dissimilar. And again, the without a trace bit does not apply to the Protheans. Traces of them abound. Entire planets (like Feros) where their cities still stand. Sites like the one on Mars which allowed humans to finally leave the solar system. Prothean beacons, like the one on Eden Prime. Trinkets, like the one the Consort gives Shep. Pyramids on all sorts of planets. These are all common knowledge to the people of the galaxy, so the Protheans most certainly did not vanish without a trace. Far from it. They vanished in a manner more akin to the residents of Easter Island, or the ancient Egyptians or Mycenaeans. They aren't around, but traces of them are everywhere. Finally, as to the catapult bit, I was referring more to the launching principle. SpartHawg948 23:03, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Age
I put "probably" 29 because we don't know Commander Shepard's birthday or the month in which Mass Effect begins. He could technically be thirty.


 * Or she, don't forget. : ) I suppose FTL and mass relay travel makes Earth dates sort of obsolete, but - Damn, my curiosity got the better of me... let's see. During Mass Effect, it's Armistice Day (Ash mentions that it's unlucky for them to be fighting on Feros because of the anniversary, and Terra Firma is having their little flag waving protest to mark it). Taking a look at my copy of Revelation, the initial attack on Shanxi coincided with Grissom going to meet the graduating class from the Arcturus Academy. Given the Alliance's adherence to tradition, they probably have their recruits graduate according to the schedule of the older military academies back on Earth. West Point graduates in May, Sandhurst in September. As Bioware is over the Atlantic they'd likely take West Point's schedule. The First Contact War lasted two months, so Armistice Day would likely be some time in... July or September. --All speculation of course, but still, fun to try and work it out. : ) -- Tullis 13:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Shepard's 30th birthday wouldn't happen until 2184. Shepard could still be 28, though, especially if this "4.11.2154" business refers to November 4th. ShepardWhyThisJubilee 22:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's also possible that the date of Armistice Day is still carried over from the Great War (as in WWI) in much the same way that it's become a general remembrance of war veterans whenever they fought. As for when he graduated, it's impossible to say since the Arcturus Academy could be influenced by any of the older academies or simply do its own thing. As mentioned in the Shep's Birthday section, his date of birth would appear to be (deliberately?) ambiguous... --vom 10:53, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I could have sworn that there was a timeline somewhere in the Codex in ME1. If i remember correctly "Shepard born" and "current date" may be on there somewhere? Correct me if I"m wrong. 68.7.244.233 09:35, July 12, 2010 (UTC)samuraichikx
 * Codex/Humanity and the Systems Alliance. You are most certainly not mistaken. However, it just specifies the year Shepard was born, not the month and day. SpartHawg948 09:47, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Shaperd's birth date is given in the first ME2 trailer.

First Human Spectre?
Commander Shepard is the first human given the opportunity to join the Spectres

actually,you later find out in the stroy that Cpt. Anderson also had an opportunity to join them...so it should be change to something like "the first human to actually join the spectres",not just the opportunity

Anderson was never really a Spectre he was just petitioned to be one by Ambassador Goyle. That mission he went on with Saren was like Shepard's mission on Eden Prime with Nihlus, Saren was ment to evaluate Anderson's performance to see if he was worthy of being a Spectre. Sorry but your argument is flawed. Jedted 20:18, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Rank
Where'd the LTC rank come from? Granted, Lieutenant Commanders are generally just called Commander, but I never saw any evidence that Shepard was a Lt. Commander and not a full Commander. Didn't edit it in case there's something I missed-just wanted to point that out.
 * In the Codex entry about the Prothean Beacon after Eden Prime, the sentence states that it affected 'Lt. Commander Shepard'. And I think the first Journal entry that gives you some background says you are Lt. Commander Shepard, XO aboard the Normandy. --Tullis 08:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Image Issues
So there have been some issues with images on this page. Someone keeps putting a picture up and myself and one other editor keep removing it. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's my belief that since Commander Shepard's gender is not set in stone, we either need images of the default male AND female Shepard, or no pictures at all. SpartHawg948 19:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Images of Shepard
As I mention in the Talk:Screenshots page, I feel that we should avoid having specific images of Shepard where possible. There is no canon for Shepard being male or female, and the commander's appearance and backstory are uniquely customised for each player - having a 'default' Shepard for players to jump right in doesn't change that. That's why I've removed the image from this page. --Tullis 19:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more! SpartHawg948 19:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

"Sorry about that, at first I thought it was not updated properly. Still I am not agreeing with your comment on ‘default’ Shepard. After all it is the standard Shepard for this game and Mass Effect 2."- Snfonseka


 * We don't know that this is the Shepard for Mass Effect 2. And this is not the 'standard' Shepard either, just a representative one. --Tullis 20:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And for that matter this Shepard is only the "current" standard. The origional "standard Shepard" (the one pictured in the Wiki logo on the top left of the page) looked a good deal different from the current "standard". SpartHawg948 20:45, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of, I'd really like to get that changed. Maybe something like the Mass Relay image or the Earth shot from the opening screen, or even that 'uncharted worlds' picture with the Mass Effect logo on. Volunteers? --Tullis 21:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Yea. I agree with Tullis. That logo should be change to something new. - Snfonseka

I disagree about the "no pictures" policy. The default male Shepard is, after all, on the cover of the box! And in all the official screenshots that have Shepard in them. Thus, a picture of the default male and female Shepards is a good idea, IMO. I have a good picture of the default male—I'll see if I can get one of the female. As long as the caption for the image says that it is the default appearance of Shepard rather than the only appearance of him/her, that should be more than adequate. RobertM525 18:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I would still prefer not to have a picture at all rather than have to have a long caption explaining this. --Tullis 18:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The caption isn't long. I've just added it. I do not understand what would be objectionable about it. Especially since the article takes a considerable amount of time explaining the fact that Shepard's appearance can be changed. And, look, I don't use the default Shepard, either. I don't like what he looks like. But that's still the Shepard that's depicted by Bioware as what the player character looks like in the game. You can change it, but that's the semi-canon appearance of Shepard. Thus, it's worth having in the article. RobertM525 18:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Reopening this discussion
I know this was discussed a while back, but given the recent overhauls and looking at those images, I'd like to go over it again.

It seems strange to have a wiki-wide policy of not having images of Shepard, constantly emphasise that we don't have canon Shepards or a canon critical path for good reasons laid out in the Style Guide, and then stick two pictures of Shepard on this page when we could use the N7 logo. I keep coming back to the statement above: "that's still the Shepard that's depicted by Bioware as what the player character looks like in the game. You can change it, but that's the semi-canon appearance of Shepard."

But there is no "canon version" of Shepard, semi or otherwise. Just a representative one for promo material. Shepard can look like anyone the player wishes, and be of either gender and any ethnicity. Otherwise what's the point of having character creation in the first place? Having default images says to me: "sure, you can mess around with Shepard as much as you want, but your choices don't matter, here's what the commander REALLY looks like." If we're going to have a wiki-wide policy and come down hard on images of Shepard, we need to be consistent.

On the other hand. We do have to put something here, and it will look strange if this is the one instance where we don't have an image of a person for their character page, though Shepard is certainly a special case. Shepard's the main character; we should make the effort to find an image that works.

I'd love to hear people's opinion on this.

One last thing (I promise). If we do decide to keep the images of the default Shepards, I propose we get two new shots to match our shiny new character pages; I think we can improve on these. : ) --Tullis 01:52, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it seems to me that we have three choices... Accept the usage of the semi-canonical Shepard from the promos (aka the "default" Mark Meer male Shepard); if this isn't acceptable b/c it automatically assumes the Commander's gender and ethnicity and whatnot, continue to use the male and female defaults here; or remove the Shepard images altogether and use a placeholder (like the N7 logo). My personal preference would be to use the promo (Mark Meer) Shepard, as this is the face most commonly associated with Shepard b/c it's the Shepard depicted on TV, the cover of the game, magazines, etc. That's my take on it, but as has been demonstrated many times over now, I'm pretty willing to accept the consensus and go with the flow on this one. SpartHawg948 02:11, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but we can't just have the Mark Meer Shepard, we'd have to have the Jennifer Hale Shepard as well. Otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of not referring to Shepard by gender and not using any images, 'cause just having his picture says "Shepard is male and looks like this". Also, if Mass Effect allows for character customisation, and we at MEWiki strive for as much accuracy as possible, then it's kind of inaccurate to give Shepard one concrete image.
 * If it's too much of a pain we may as well just stick to the images we have. I was just curious as to what people thought. --Tullis 02:19, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think we need to go too overboard with the no Shepard images policy. I think images of the defaults on this page is fine, and I'd go as far as saying images of the default Shepard are perfectly fine on non-story pages like Armor and Weapons, just as long as he/she's not in a story situation. I don't think that will take away from people's own story experiences, certainly no more than the box-art or marketing would. We don't have to refer to it as 'canon', 'semi canon' or anything, just 'default'.


 * One option for this page would be to simply swap the positions of the N7 image and the default faces, since planting the faces under 'Profile Reconstruction' pretty clearly removes them from any real story context, if you're really worried about that. JakePT 02:20, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * But if it's inaccurate to give Shepard one concrete image, how is it any less inaccurate to give Shepard just two concrete images? (playing Devil's Advocate here) SpartHawg948 02:21, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * SpartHawg: it's less inaccurate because it says that Shepard can at least be both male and female and that the commander's appearance is malleable (she says, apparently playing stupid advocate here :) ).
 * JakePT: we're looking at recapturing the armour images and we use the squaddies for weapon pictures, but I actually like that idea, especially if we took fresh shots from the actual customisation screens. That way we get the images but also a sense that they're malleable. (And shiny new pictures.) Another concern I had was that, with the new character infobox, it looks clumsy to have the "these are default images" caption; that could be easily fixed if we have them in the body of the article.
 * I dunno. Maybe I'm nitpicking but I feel strongly about people feeling their choices are "wrong" because they're not canon according to some mystical decision they have no say in. I just want to give the sense that we accommodate everyone, and their Shepards. I think that's worth the effort. --Tullis 02:28, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we'd be making people feel their choices were "wrong", certainly no more so than BioWare itself does by picking one image for Shepard to use in all their marketing, videos, dev diaries, commercials, print ads and interviews, etc... There's no way we can acoomodate everybody, however nice that may be, so I think we just need to go with the most practical/practicable solution. SpartHawg948 02:33, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * All good points. And if that means leaving it as is, that's OK. --Tullis 02:44, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

I totally get the not wanting to make people feel like their Shepard is 'wrong', but I do feel we have some freedom to use the default Shepard before that becomes a problem. I do think though that with the new character box we'd be better off with the N7 image in it, and having the default faces under the Profile Reconstruction section, with subtitles. So my position is: Move default faces to Profile Reconstruction, use Shepard images in non-story contexts (armor, weapons etc. which may be unavoidable in ME2) and completely avoid using images/gender in story articles. JakePT 03:40, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I forgot to address the 'N7 in infobox, default pictures in profile reconstruction area' idea. It's a pretty good idea. I'm trying to think of reasons to oppose it and I'm coming up with... nada. :) SpartHawg948 03:47, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll make someone a superb "no-man" one day, SpartHawg. : )
 * That seems like a good solution to me. I guess I'm overreacting on this, it's just something I feel strongly about and, since we're spiffing up the pages right now it seemed like a good time to address it again. If we want to do this, could someone look at getting the profile reconstruction shots, while I'll see about finding a nice N7 pic and we'll see how it looks. For all we know it might end up looking better the way it is now, and render all my blathering entirely moot. : ) --Tullis 04:09, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * No-man... I like that! For now I prefer to think of myself playing "bad cop" to your "good cop", administratively speaking (would that make DRY the plainclothes detective?) :P SpartHawg948 04:45, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, DRY is more like our Lucius Fox. : ) --Tullis 04:56, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hey I've got a what if. What if we made like a huge collage of ~1500 (rounded to the nearest decimal point) user-made Commander Shepards and use visual editing to hue them in such a way that they create an image of the Mark Meer Commander Shepard's face. Then, we embed that image into a screenshot of Shepard clocking Khalisah Bint Sinan Al-Jilani in the face with a caption "Time to shut you up!". Then, that image replaces this page, content and all. What do you think, good plan? Incrognito 07:27, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we change this?
I think since Mass Effect has it's own story we should make this article about the default main character: Commander John Shepard, he is on the cover of the game and is (as previously mentioned) the default leading character. Jon-117 03:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The hero of Mass Effect is Commander Shepard. Whether Shepard is male or female, what Shepard looks like and how Shepard acts is up to the individual player. Default is not the same as canon. Locking Shepard or the story down to an absolute canon defeats the object of having so much player choice in-game in the first place. And, as everyone's Shepard is different, saying the main character is John Shepard will be inaccurate for the vast majority of players. If nothing else, a wiki should be as accurate as possible. That's why the guideline for this wiki is to write Shepard as gender-neutral. --Tullis 05:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * So what if a book comes out based on the game and John Shepard is the main character, what happens then? Jon-117 00:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Drew Karpyshyn says: "I’ve done my best to manage expectations and make sure everyone understands that the adventures of Commander Shepard will NEVER be in one of my novels… YOU get to choose Shepard’s  course in the game – that’s YOUR story. The novels are meant to expand and broaden the Mass Effect universe by telling a different story, so they will never simply recount events in the game." He's currently the only person who's writing ME novels. -- |D Karpyshyn blog, August 18 2008. --Tullis 00:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Title of the article.
Is it really appropriate that the title of this article be "Commander Shepard"? Article titles typically use only a person's actual name, and don't include military ranks. I think that the title should be changed to just "Shepard". Thoughts? --Randy1012 09:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Shepard' redirects here already. Interesting question. I don't know - Shepard is referred to both by military rank and surname throughout the game. Being a commander seems to be quite a large part of Shepard's identity, I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to use that rank. Besides Shepard's in a unique position so far as first names are concerned. : )
 * True, people use the term "Commander" to occasionally identify Shepard, but it's not his name. The article for Anderson isn't titled "Captain David Anderson," for example. --Randy1012 14:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess if Shepard ever gets promoted, this article should switch to just 'Shepard' for accuracy, but I don't have a problem with it being 'Commander Shepard'. I could be in the minority though. Hmm. What do others think? --Tullis 13:37, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's really not a huge deal (this is a video game wiki, after all), but my main reasoning for the question is just that: accuracy. Including a character's military rank isn't appropriate. It's the same with, for example, Admiral Hackett--his name is Steven, so his article title should simply be "Steven Hackett." --Randy1012 14:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, then it becomes a problem with the search bar. Most players only know him as 'Admiral Hackett', so if we switch it to 'Steven Hackett' they won't find the article if they search for him as 'Admiral Hackett' unless we create a redirect, which seems unnecessary. Although, I suppose we do have Donnel Udina as an article, and he's only named on the ME 'movie poster'. : ) What do other users think? Do we want to create redirects and give people their full names, or are we happy to use rank in the case of characters whose first names are never or very rarely used? --Tullis 15:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You beat me to it :)...


 * The article naming should be according to the in-game references. I did not know (or more acuratly, didn't bother to know) that Hackett first name is Steven. If I were to search for that article, I would search for "Admiral Hackett" and not "Steven Hackett". There is also "The Asari Consort" and "Commander Rentola", and various others.
 * Fair enough, though I think that "Admiral Hackett" should redirect to "Steven Hackett," as Tullis mentioned. "The Asari Consort" redirects to Sha'ira, as it should. "Commander Rentola" should also just redirect to "Rentola," as that is the character's name (well, not including all the other parts that make up salarian names). --Randy1012 00:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if we're gonna do this thing -- volunteers to create the Rannadril Ghan Swa Fulsoom Karaten Narr Eadi Bel Anoleis page? Anyone? : ) --Tullis 00:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * To do a standardization of the article names, we could do something like: "Shepard, Commander" or "Hackett, Steven (Admiral)", or any other naming convention along those lines. Then we could reference the current names to the new pages. --silverstrike 15:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * To Randy1012 re: the General Williams article: No, I don't like the way this looks. Why on earth do 'Williams (General)' when we know exactly whom 'General Williams' refers to? Also, it creates unnecessary complication for new editors who may not know this convention. Changing.
 * I genuinely don't understand why you consider it 'inappropriate' to refer to military personnel by their rank. Coming from a military family, the opposite is usually true. --Tullis 13:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I come from a military family myself, but I was thinking more about how an entry in a real encyclopedia would be presented. If you turned to a page about, I don't know, Douglas MacArthur, it would be titled "Douglas MacArthur," not "General MacArthur" or "General Douglas MacArthur." Adding "General" in parentheses after "Williams" was only to differentiate him from any other Williams in the ME wiki (including Ashley and anyone else that might get added in the future). Not to mention that it screws up the categories--they're supposed to list articles in alphabetical order, but instead of going by the characters' names, their ranks are used instead. But, like I said on the General Williams discussion page, if that's the format you've all chosen to use here, who am I to argue? I'm just glad I was at least able to bring up some interesting discussion about the subject. :-) --Randy1012 18:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't moved the article - that was just an idea I had following Randy's complaints... I also think that the current naming is fine - you always refer to the character title and rank and not the full name (even in real life).


 * Military names and rank should be written as: "[rank] [last name] [first name]", or non military: "Dr. something someone", "Asari Consort". --silverstrike 14:11, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologise, that comment was actually not directed to you. Clarified. But then are we looking at articles for 'Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams' when we know her as 'Ashley Williams'? It seems unnecessarily complicated. Liara would be fine, as she's often referred to as 'Dr. T'Soni'. Maybe there should be an exception for squadmates. --Tullis 14:15, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that character names should be written as they are in-game. That is what visitors will look for - we could add at the top of the article the "correct" reference (Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams) to be accurate, but we should leave the article names as they are. --silverstrike 14:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There are also ranks and titles for characters that are not mentioned, for example: does Liara T'Soni's title should be "Asari Scientist Liara T'soni"? or should Tali be referenced as "Quarian Mechanist Tali'Zorah nar Rayya"?, and so on... --silverstrike 14:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * They are never, ever referred to as such in-game, and it makes no difference to their character. 'Turian Agent' is a class, not a rank. So no. The first paragraph of each squadmate's article says what class they are anyway. : )
 * But yeah, I'll add the character's rank to the first line of their pages (for Kaidan and Ashley, anyway) as it is on Liara's page. The aliens don't have ranks, except in Liara's case, and it's already established on her page as mentioned. --Tullis 15:07, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: (Whoops! Ash's is already done. I'll fix Kaidan's. : ) ) --Tullis 15:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2
As of now anything seen or speculated for the teaser trailer (which often have little connection to the plot of the game it is for) is just that... speculation. At this time it does not belong on this page as it is not a fact.

So for those posting that information... please do not. Zerodark9 22:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose I should leave the Mass Effect 2 heading off this page, then, as people keep deleting it along with the speculation. :) --Tullis 22:15, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I just watched the video and in the end it showed Shepard dying in first Normandy how can this be possible if he flies in another Normandy the same video and the game takes place after this?OmagaSpruz 16:30, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ummm... dream, nightmare, hallucination, simulation, maybe the fact that this could be only one of a number of possible outcomes, maybe it's an elaborate ruse to get the enemy to believe he's dead for whatever reason, could be content that doesn't even make it into the game (remember the miners on Caleston? That one even made it into the commercials! Or how about pulling a gun on the salarian bartender of Flux and then talking to the asari upstairs?). There are so many possible answers to that question. Best to just wait till it comes out and find out for sure. SpartHawg948 20:35, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, please sign your comments from now on. This can be done by pressing the tilde key (this ~) 4 times at the end of your post. SpartHawg948 20:36, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Sheps Birthday
Since I can't be bothered checking the ME codex, is there an in-game date for Sheps birthday? The only one I can recall seeing is the date in the ME2 teaser trailer which says the 4th of November (4.11.2154). Yes, I know Americans are going to scream 'but thats the 11th of April!' but since we're talking about a unified Earth military, it's pretty safe to assume they would have adopted the international date system which is day/month/year. --59.100.179.191 03:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It confused me too (I hate that backwards dating). I've reverted it back -- it's also on the timeline as being April 11th -- but for simplicity's sake I'll put it on Shepard's page in numerical form so people can interpret it as they want. :) --Tullis 12:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually If they were using the international standard, dates would be in the format of YYYY-MM-DD. Molon 17:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cause you know us Americans, we put our hamburger patties in the toaster and our beds in the living room.--Vaile 22:26, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Today is 01-JUL-09

no confusion there, how I always write my date:/

On the biotics talk page, there's a timeline (that apparently comes from the dev team's timeline doc) of when Kaidan and (biotic) Shepard had various biotic things happen to them (when Shepard was detected as a biotic, &c.) – but Kaidan's age at the time of each event seems like it should be one more:

2168 - Shepard, 14 years old, received secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests.

2169 - Kaidan, 17 years old, accidentally kills trainer after being provoked. Diplomatic incident forces closure of BAaT training. Kaidan refuses further training.

This seems to support Kaidan's birthday being in, like, December or something (so that calendar year - his birth year = his age for only a few days each year), and Shepard's being earlier in the year (since s/he *is* the "expected" age in each of those calendar years, at least according to that document, and if Shepard was born in April this has a much higher probability of working out than if s/he was born in November), making Kaidan somewhat less than three whole years older than Shepard. Do we know when Kaidan's birthday is – or anyone else's besides Shepard's (such as it is), for that matter? For one thing, we'd know what date convention they were using if some character turned out to be born on, say, the 20th of a month… ShepardWhyThisJubilee 06:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We have an exact date for Ashley's birthday, but that's about the only one we have. --Tullis 22:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To revisit this again, has anybody figured out a definitive answer as to whether it's the 4th of November or the 11th of April - or if it is indeed deliberately ambiguous? If it's unknown, maybe a note could be added to that effect. --vom 09:46, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't have a definite answer, we just have the definitive date that was given, so we're leaving it at that. --Tullis 15:18, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, at least I know now! Anybody fancy adding a footnote to that effect?  I'd volunteer, but my Wiki code is so rusty that I'd probably do something nasty to the page if I attempted it myself... --vom 21:21, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not... sure what we can add as a footnote. That's the date we were given. We left it in the format that was in the teaser to try and avoid dispute. Adding footnotes saying is could be April or November seems a little redundant. : ) --Tullis 21:28, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * How about "we don't know what format this is in"? :D I think a possible solution is to make it link to this discussion so anybody else who comes along understands that the date is rather indeterminate... --vom 10:57, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Considering the in game dating convention used on save files is DD/MM/YYYY, isn't it safe to assume that the same convention would be used for all in game dates? Won't change it myself, but if everyone agrees, then be my guest. --Zadok0 00:56, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking that myself. I'd go with the save file notation. — Milo Fett [Comlink] 05:45, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Know that I am a bit late for this, but seeing as Shepard was a member of the Systems Alliance which is essentially a multi-national military, the date would be most likely interpreted by any military calander as 4 November 2154, just as today would be 4 Feburary 2010. 69.132.216.4 02:23, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * They're still assumptions, though: we still haven't been given a definite date AFAIK, and I suspect the ambiguity may be intentional. And don't military types use ISO-format dates these days...? --vom 14:53, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late response, guys, but I just wanted to point out that I think our best bet is to go with the international system and say November 4th, 2154 -- for the reasons mentioned above. It just really seems like our best bet to me. -- Fiery Phoenix 7:23, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

The format used for other dates on the teaser site (i.e. video release dates) was the US format. So Shep is more likely an Aries than a Scorpio. 78.146.237.249 20:22, April 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * The american webdesigner who wrote those dates on the website hardly seems like a clue to go by when deciding what date format to use for the storyline. The odds of the webmaster having something do with the actual game are minimal.--88.112.218.248 23:04, July 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Canadians use all three date formats for various uses. Driver's licenses (or "licences") have year-month-day, the Prime Minister's website used day-month-year, and newspapers tend to use month-day-year. The month is either written in full or abbreviated. The question to our answer is known only by Bioware, or they're just messing with us. Pyro721 04:36, August 23, 2010 (UTC)

About Shepard being dead
http://blogs.ign.com/BW_MassEffect/2009/04/30/119240/

A Bioware dev said he "better not be dead" saracasticly. I take it as he meant he isn't dead.

Fedarated AK74-u 15:57, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Cloned
Is it possoble that if shepard were to die in M E 2 they could clone shepard at the begining of M E 3.


 * Anything's possible. Personally, though, I only care about the second right now. If it has the replay value they say it's going to have, then I'll be just fine playing it over and over and over again, to hold me over. lol. --Effectofthemassvariety 01:29, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

My guess is that you either play as Sheperd in the third game, or a totally new character.

Casey Hudson said that if you die at the end of Mass Effect 2 you WILL NOT be able to import your save. Now they could go back on thier word but he seemed pretty dead set on this.

A loading screen in ME2 advises you to keep your ME2 savegame to import into ME3 in the future.

Resemblance
Just want to make one point clear. In the past few days I have seen multiple instances of people inserting their opinions that a character resembles someone else (and actor, a character in another game, etc) as trivia. This is not trivia, it is personal opinion. For example, other than the fact that they both have short hair, I see no resemblance between Commander Shepherd and John Forge of Halo Wars, as their facial structures are substantially different. Please remember that these are factual articles. Personal opinions do not belong. Put them on your personal pages. SpartHawg948 11:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2 Class
If you were a soldier in Mass Effect, will you have to make a different Shepard in ME2 or will you be able to change your class?--TheEverAlertAndSilentStep 22:52, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure you'll be able to change your class if you so choose. SpartHawg948 02:03, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Developers have said you will have to option to change your class, since things are being changed up quite a bit and you may not want to stick with the same class. JakePT 02:52, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * yep yep, the new vanguard abilities are really making me re-think my infiltrator.--Xaero Dumort 21:33, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah! The Adept abilities are freaking awesome! I'm definately thinking about changing from soldier to that! Also, on a side note: You also have the choice of changing your physical appearance as well. I definately got sick of that huge scar across my Shepard's face by the end. lol. --Effectofthemassvariety 01:34, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

"Asleep" comment
I think some people may be taking the asleep comment a little too literally, at least at the moment, knowing what we know. My take on it was that the use of the word "asleep" by the Illusive Man was along the lines of the phrase "asleep at the wheel", as often times asleep will be used in this context on it's own w/out the rest of the saying. Of course, I could be wrong on that, but that is my take on it at this time. SpartHawg948 20:50, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well my interest was tweaked in the Illusive Man video in which Shepard asks the Illusive Man, "What are the Reapers doing that made you bring me back?" http://kotaku.com/5404715/mass-effect-2s-elusive-man-is--martin-sheen (about halfway through the trailer).Which leads me to believe the reason for implants and things like that and all the "I thought you were dead." comments is because... maybe he was? Who knows what kind of cloning technology may exist? That one is more out there, but at the least he was probably in a coma and they kept trying to revive him after picking him up after the SR-1 is destroyed.--Xaero Dumort 04:43, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I will admit, that is certainly an intriguing theory. I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out. :) SpartHawg948 04:46, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * So should that mean he is not a human anymore, a cyborg like Saren? I think he have been in a very hard coma severly damaged. What about his crew?OmagaSpruz 18:47, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah like Saren, but probably cyborg pre-Reaper enhanced level. That's my theory behind why the more renegade he gets the more apparent his enhancements are. Pretty sure in the one picture his eyes are glowing red the way that Saren's glowed blue. We are not really sure of the fate of members of the crew like Chakwas, Pressly and Joker.--Xaero Dumort 19:34, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * I just got the idea that maybe the picture where eyes are glowing are face implant, but it is still possible most of him is cyborg type also. I also noticed that his N7 armor or onyx was it, have changed or am i wrong? OmagaSpruz 16:39, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still N7, I think it is just a aesthetic change for the better graphics.--Xaero Dumort 21:31, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that "glowing eyes" picture was just something they did for halloween. You know, for fun? Maybe I'm wrong. Effectofthemassvariety 02:55, December 8, 2009 (UTC)