User talk:Lancer1289

Welcome to My Talk Page. If you don't find an issue that you have brought up with me in the past, then please check my archives because I have moved a lot of it to there. However I ask you to NOT edit there, just drop me a new message to bring up the discussion again. To leave me a message, please click on the "Leave message" button above, rather than just editing the whole page. That way I know what to look for. Thanks.

Please do leave me a new message unless there is a conversation that is already in progress that you wish to comment on. If you have a question that has no bearing on a conversation that is under a heading, then please don't edit there. Just leave me a new message. For example, if you see a section called Help, but your question doesn't relate to what the conversation was about, then PLEASE don't edit in that section, just leave me a new message. The comments will be moved to the end and I'll create a new section for it.

Email
Lancer, check your email. I'm heading out, so I won't be able to reply (if necessary) until later. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:53, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * What a coincidence, I was just about to email you. I'll just reply then. Lancer1289 (talk) 20:55, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

I suspect a sock puppet.
I don't want to go make baseless accusations and throw people under the bus, but this Gavin Hossel guy has some strikingly similar qualities to that of User:Charles Saracino, not to mention he showed up the day after Charles ban.--Legionwrex (talk) 21:10, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * We are watching. Lancer1289 (talk) 21:12, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Who is "we", you're the only one I alerted.--Legionwrex (talk) 21:13, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * We are watching. That is all you need to know. Lancer1289 (talk) 22:28, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * Okay???--Legionwrex (talk) 22:32, September 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * We are watching. That is all. Lancer1289 (talk) 22:34, September 4, 2012 (UTC)

I might be over-reacting...
But if not, we might well receive another warning from the Wikia Central. On the MC vs. Shepard blog, Mr. Mittens has brought up the matter of the fanfiction blog (one you ended up comment-locking). While the discussion didn't contain any death threats, it had certain responses that might warrant a warning to certain users.

I sincerely hope that this is false alarm and whatever you do, please don't close commenting on that blog. Best regards, 4Ferelden (talk) 00:47, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * No death threats have occurred. The only way that this goes any further is if TW takes it there. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 00:53, September 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Please when leaving messages, please look at the situation that came up before and if it isn't that serious then please don't open with that line.
 * I will still look however. Lancer1289 (talk) 03:33, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Please Help.
User Ardent Clerk Bosker Apologist has started a political debate on my talk page (for no apparent reason) and has been insulting and hostile towards me ever since, even after I informed him that he was breaking site policy and asked him to stop. Please take a look, it is under the politics section of my talk page.--Legionwrex (talk) 03:42, September 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * The user has been blocked for harassment. -- Commdor (Talk) 03:43, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you Commdor, for whatever reason I seem to have an admin-sized target for hostility these days.--Legionwrex (talk) 03:47, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Apologies for not taking care of this sooner but I hope you can indulge me. One thing I learned from my recent match is what is worse than four Shadows with Cerberus Harriers? Lancer1289 (talk) 03:59, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's all good. I haven't played ME3 in so long I've actually forgotten what a "Shadow" is.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:11, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was kind of hoping for a response based on two big BioWare games, or just a simple "What?" Well what is worse than four Shadows with Harriers, is four Shadows with lightsabers and Force abilities. Lancer1289 (talk) 04:20, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Get this, Ardent just sent me a message via X-box live further harassing me.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:36, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * How does he have your gamertag? If hit continues, then just report him and block communications. Lancer1289 (talk) 04:40, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * It's on my user page, anyways, it turns out it wasn't him, but rather TW6464 pretending to be him for whatever reason.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:42, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * What? Ok this is getting out of hand. I'd still report that and block communications. This is why I never have and never will put my gamertag on my user page. Lancer1289 (talk) 04:42, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah I don't know what the H*ll is going on, TW6464 is sending some pretty creepy messages.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:46, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you share? --Mr. Mittens (talk) 04:48, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Just block communications and be done with it. Lancer1289 (talk) 04:50, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

I have to cut in here. I'm friends with Ardent Clerk Bosker Apologist, and I helped him set up his account here (What he chose to do with it was of his own accord). I'm communicating with him via Skype right now and he says he is NOT responsible for these Xbox messages. It must be someone else. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 04:45, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

These are the messages from TW6464 in order.


 * "Springrollio..."


 * "I am not Ardent Clerk Bosker, btw, its...TW6464. and my friends"


 * "No Im completly serious, there are 6 other frequent posters with me"


 * "We can all explain at at later date, we are Helping"


 * "keep calm, we mean you no harm, We intend to bring greatness to the wiki"

Creepy, huh?--Legionwrex (talk) 04:54, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Ok that is a really creepy, especially when it's the first thing to read in the morning. Bluegear93 (talk)

Blood Pack Punisher
I just wanted to pop in and let you know I removed a note on the Blood Pack Punisher page that another user added and you edited regarding the effects of AP ammo. After your edit, the page said that AP ammo is unnecessary with the Punisher because of its inherent armor piercing ability. I found this odd because no other weapon with armor piercing/cover penetration properties mentioned AP ammo being unnecessary.

Through some testing I've noticed a clear difference in the effectiveness of the Punisher with any ammo that does extra damage to armor or weakens armor. Using the console I removed both squadmates and went 1v1 with a Brute. There is a very noticeable difference in the number of rounds required to take him down when AP/Cryo ammo is applied. If this was inappropriate, please let me know and I'll remove it, but as I mentioned before, it's not consistent with the other weapons and I believe it is incorrect.

Sorry for the long message, I'm just trying to make things as accurate as possible here and don't want to step on anyone's toes. If this message is unnecessary or in the wrong area (Punisher talk page?), I apologize, and feel free to contact me and delete it. --M storch (talk) 16:45, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * I"m not sure what you are talking about. I've only undone edits on that page so some explaining is needed. Lancer1289 (talk) 17:00, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

The page previously stated "As the Punisher already does extra damage towards armor, adding an anti-armor ammo power will make it become overwhelming." which you reverted to "As the Punisher already does extra damage towards armor, it renders anti-armor ammo such as Armor-Piercing Ammo obsolete--unless your playstyle revolves around shooting through cover." I feel the former statement is somewhat correct, as there is a noticeable difference in anti-armor capability, and the latter statement is flat out wrong. As I said before, no other weapon with armor piercing ability has this disclaimer, so why should the Punisher, especially when it's not true? --M storch (talk) 17:11, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh that. Well at the time it seemed like removal of content as there was no edit summary given. When no edit summary is given for an edit, it makes it hard to determine whether or not someone is either correcting information, or simply doing something because they found something different, which is also why we ask users to leave them. If it is incorrect, then it does need to go or be changed, but a summary goes a long way. Lancer1289 (talk) 17:29, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

Ok, I'll keep that in mind for future edits. I'm here to help out, but I'm new and don't know the proper procedures. Thanks for all the help. --M storch (talk) 18:13, September 10, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only advice I can really offer is that you just need to feel the waters and feel your way around. Every wiki is different and therefore you just need to feel around. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:28, September 10, 2012 (UTC)

My idea
Hello. I wonder if there is any place for the idea i had in that blog of mine as you said i can't have it here (for personally, pretty silliy reasons) I know of ME fanfiction but i wonder if they do stuff like that there.

Could you give me a link to the fanfic site?

--Hello (talk) 15:33, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I unforunetly cannot help there as I don't know any links. I know there are some, but just google ME fan fiction and you should get a few. I do know of two on Wikia's network itself but again I can't remember the links. Lancer1289 (talk) 15:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Deleting blog comments
Can you delete blog comments without them being violations of the rules? If possible, I'd like the comment thread that started with TW6464 and devolved into arguments about blog spamming deleted as none of it was germane to my post. If not, then I'll just ignore it. Thanks! Trandra (talk) 17:51, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Have your tried telling us to stop? I'd rather we start dealing with problems ourselves then keep running to admins at the first sign of trouble. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 17:53, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Tranda, to be fair, I was merely stating that I had the same character builder blog. I was not trying to advertise anything TW6464 (talk) 17:58, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I was not trying to start anything TW6464 (talk) 18:01, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Since it is your blog Trandra so I can delete comments at your request. I shall delete it now.
 * However, Mittens does have a point, you could try asking them to stop before coming to one of us. At the same time Mittens, some people just won't stop even if you tell them to. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:00, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you, Lancer. As you said, "some people just won't stop even if you tell them to" so I wanted the comments deleted (and am unable to do so on my own). Lately I've been around less and less because the overall feel of the wiki has been very dismal, and I just didn't want to get involved with it on my blog post. Trandra (talk) 18:07, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I've been thinking of starting a few projects to get the focus back on content and away from the blog scene. I hope you will stick around to see what I came up with. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:10, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * It will probably take me a day or so to write everything up, get things organized, and then present it in the project forum. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:17, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

quick formatting questions

 * 1) #REDIRECT Citadel: Negotiator's Request is this how to make a redirect
 * 2) do we need voting approval on redirects for "obvious" keywords (ex. Elias Keeler -> Citadel: Negotiator's Request or Kaidan Alenko/Unique Dialogue -> Kaidan Alenko/Unique dialogue)

T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 18:25, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Answers are yes and generally no, but there are some that are just unneeded. Just use common sense when making them. There is such a thing as overload. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:29, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

alright then, i'm laying off point number 2 entirely. i am, however, adding a mugshot of keeler to the page... T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 18:36, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * That's fine. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:42, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

i lied. saw clerk bosker redirected to citadel homecoming, figured why not. haveagoodday. -TE78

having multiple pictures of enemies
Lancer, I was wondering: why do we only have one picture for enemies that have multiple forms? For example, the Blue suns soldier page has only the human and Batarian version shown, but there is a turian version, too. What I'm asking is, is it possible to have multiple pictures for enemies that have multiple forms?--TW6464 (talk) 13:06, September 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * The template wouldn't be able to handle multiple forms, and even then, there really is no need. One picture is more than enough. Even if one were to combine them into the same format, then no detail would be shown. Lancer1289 (talk) 23:48, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Ok thank you--TW6464 (talk) 13:06, September 12, 2012 (UTC)

An odd question.
This is kind of a weird question, but because I know other wikis have a policy against this, I'll ask. Is it possible for a user who was banned to become a senior editor, or even an administrator?--Legionwrex (talk) 23:44, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure. As far as I know there is no policy preventing that, but I'd recommend asking Spart that question since he'd be able to give you a definite answer. Lancer1289 (talk) 23:46, September 11, 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh, well thank you for pointing me in the right direction.--Legionwrex (talk) 23:50, September 11, 2012 (UTC)

Unjustly Banned.
Is there a place to go if you are unjustly banned and wish to report a admin, because after this run in I had with Charles Saracino, I would like to do that. Why don't you take a look here and tell me if this ban was just, --Legionwrex (talk) 03:38, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

I would contact a member of the staff over on Wikia Central, because that's pretty obtuse.

--The Milkman | I always deliver. 04:02, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Would you mind giving me a link to a good staff member to report it to.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:04, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

This might help. If that doesn't go anywhere, I'd contact a member of the staff directly on their wall.

--The Milkman | I always deliver. 04:11, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Charles and I have reached an agreement. No report will happen, although it is nice to have this just in case.--Legionwrex (talk) 04:15, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Vandalism Spotted.
This user vandalised the Citadel: Scan the Keepers page. I have since reverted the edit made by the user.

--The Milkman | I always deliver. 04:01, September 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Got it. FYI the first link in your comment goes to a blog post on the Elder Scrolls Wiki. -- Commdor (Talk) 04:09, September 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * Whoops! That's what I get for multitasking. Thanks! --The Milkman | I always deliver. 04:13, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Missing Title #1
I'd like to point something out to you, regarding the issue about Asari as a gender. I'd like to make it abudantly clear, that Liara does not in anyway state that "She's not precisely a woman". She does not say this in ME1, I can show you the exact cutscene of it. If Shepard questions the subject, she'll simply repeat the same old sentence. Just pointing it out, skipper.
 * And that is where you are incorrect, to a very large degree. Lancer1289 (talk) 13:49, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Mono-gendered means that the Asari only have 1 and only 1 gender, but through the eyes of an Asari it is of course not considered to have any real meaning. Considering they are used to it, and that's the way they are and always have been due to the way they reproduce and how they are able to do it with any species of any gender.

~ Anonymous Contributor
 * Thanks for assuming that I am completely ignorant of what the term means and merely repeat what I already know. You have yet to present anything to justify either of your edits so either present it or stop because you are incorrect. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen. Lancer1289 (talk) 13:54, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Commander Shepard: You wanna relationship with me? Even though we are both women? Liara T'Soni: We Asari are mono-gendered, Commander. "Male and female do not have any meaning for us". We do however have maternal instincts, so perhaps we would fill what you consider a female role.

In the above sentence she doesn't specifically say that the Asari aren't exactly women, what she really does is simply repeating the same phrase again. To humans and other races, an Asari is considered female certainly. Since the Asari don't have experience with dealing with males, because they only have 1 gender they consider it invalid. It's not the same as saying they aren't women at all.

There you have it

~ Anonymous User
 * Did you ever consider what happens if Shepard is male? Clearly not. And the fact you keep capitalizing asari, despite it is never capitalized in canon, tells me even more. Lancer1289 (talk) 13:58, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, and please do not resort to anger as I'm not trying to provoke you and it really is unecessary. We are both intelligent people, I never assumed you were ignorant. We aren't people from the BioWare Social Network after all. We can discuss it gently. I'm simply pointing something out, that I personally think is a misleading interpretation of what Liara states. No need to be defensive about that.

~ Anonymous User
 * Read my previous comment. Lancer1289 (talk) 14:02, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Yes, very nice. Insulting my own intelligence simply because I mistakenly capitalized the term "asari" despite the fact I never insulted you. What specific conversation with Male Shepard are you referring to though? I wanna believe you are right here, believe me, but I need to know. After I've watched it, and if Liara specifically states that she doesn't consider herself a woman, then I'll take my statement back and apologize. Sounds fair, skipper? ;)

~ Anonymous User
 * I've seen and heard that line if you pursue a relationship with Liara as a male Shepard. You completely and utterly removed a male Shepard from this situation because you clearly never experienced it. You can't do that just because you have experienced it from only one gender. It is not a misrepresentation, it is accurate. Just look on YouTube and you will find it. Lancer1289 (talk) 14:11, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

I admit I didn't consider that, because I thought the information relayed to male Shep would be relatively the same. Pretty much all of the dialogue is, between both gender which isn't something new for recent BioWare games, so it is odd why Liara wouldn't relate this information too. But there was honestly no need to act so condescending towards me. I apologize for my assumptions and bid you a good day, Lancer.

~ Anonymous User

What is going on?!
Something is weird with the help page. All headlins text is like doubled and it stands stuff like "MoreHelpMoreHelp" Is this just a problem for me or is something wrong?--Hello (talk) 17:34, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * I have really no idea what you are talking about really. Clarification needed. Lancer1289 (talk) 17:54, September 13, 2012 (UTC)


 * It's hard to explain right here with text and everything but whatever. First: Did you check the help page about changing text? The problem was there. Secondly: The problem was that headlines are all screawd up. As already mentioned, The headline text is doubled so it dosen't just say "More Help" it says "More HelpMore Help"


 * You get it now?--Hello (talk) 18:01, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * No I don't see anything wrong with the help pages and I really don't understand what you are saying. Lancer1289 (talk) 18:05, September 13, 2012 (UTC)
 * Guess it was just temporary. Anyway what's up?--Hello (talk) 18:11, September 13, 2012 (UTC)

Triginta Petra fuss
This Wiki has a page on Triginta Petra which has a note at the end to the effect that the name means "30 Stones" in Greek. It does not, of course. Triginta is a Latin word for 30, not Greek. The Greek word "Petra" means (large boulder) rock rather than stone. So this is a case of the developers having fun. It's a chimeric combination of two dead languages, but more, it's a sidelong reference to Tina Fey's "30 Rock" TV comedy, which lasted (so far) six seasons. Bear in mind the planet's description - that "if you last five seasons, you officially know what you're doing". There appears to be a user who objects to this and persistently reverts the note to say that it's Greek, which is simply wrong. SDoradus (talk) 09:57, September 14, 2012 (UTC)
 * After reviewing the article history, your first edit, and subsequent edits can be taken as vandalism. We do not under any circumstances permit signatures in articles, and repeated attempts to put it in will result in a ban. On top of that, you were edit warring, another bannable offense. There were far more appropriate places for you to take up your point than come close to being banned for your actions. There are talk pages, or the other user's talk page before it got to this level. Now to the point, there is no reason for me to take your word over the article and, given your actions, I have even less reason to. Get a source and then it can be discussed. Lancer1289 (talk) 15:18, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

For the sin of including my signature, I unreservedly apologize. Having come to that article from a different ME wiki where the signature is in fact encouraged, I simply did not know the rule. As regards edit warring, I reverted twice, the other user reverted three times. Neither of us updated the other's talk page, in my case because from the edit comments left I judged it better to bring the issue here. If this is not the appropriate forum I also apologize. I note that some kind person has since edited the text to include the provable element of my edit. SDoradus (talk) 04:01, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

SDoradus, I was the one who originally put the trivia about the name meaning there. Translating it directly resulted in "Thirty Stone". I immediately made the connection to 30 Rock, but I didn't put it on the page because things like that usually require a source. So I left it as is. I wouldn't have an issue with anyone changing it from "Thirty Stones" to "Thirty Rock", since it translates the same way, but we can't put it as a show reference without developer confirmation. Also, you had that trivia written in a way that wasn't anywhere close to the accepted format, so know wonder it was taken down. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 15:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

That's fair. I'd observe that "petra" is a greek singular noun, so at the very least "stones" should be "stone". Which is another pointer to the TV show, I'd be inclined to think. Someone mentioned there is an MoS (Manual of Style?). I will look for it. I'd say since you made the connection at once others might too, but it's less likely twenty years from now that such an obscure pop culture reference will be noticed. Not that it's unreasonable to require a word-of-god developer source, but I'd tend to think it a weakness in a reference work. SDoradus (talk) 04:09, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

Live Chat Voting Process
I'm just wondering if there's been any kind of discussion or progress among the admins regarding Live Chat guidelines. I don't really feel comfortable freezing the voting process if I don't know how things are going on your end, and I don't really think you guys want to be debating forming policies relating to things that haven't been voted on by the community yet. I'm thinking about unfreezing the voting. That way, the community can decided whether or not to have a Live! Chat, and then the admins can figure out the logistics of it and implement it when it's ready. I haven't been getting as much feedback from admins as I had hoped for, so I'd really like some input on this. It you're against me continuing the voting process, please tell me what I can do to get my project to that point. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 18:05, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I told you I'd be moving as fast as we can, and we are. These things take time, and the problem is that you didn't give us much to work with to begin with. Less than two days I might add before you opened voting. The thing is that if it is voted yes, and then nothing is done, people will complain while we try and sort everything out. You can't say yes, then say "oh the logistics are being work on, so just wait and have patience." You need to have a system in place first before people can say yes, so they can say yes with an informed opinion.
 * The reason you aren't getting feedback is because you basically opened a can of worms and didn't think about who'd be cleaning it up. I was expecting something like this sooner or later, but since none of the proposals until now have had any lasting impact, it's always gone by the wayside. You didn't even inform any admins, nor did you ask a question of any of us, when it would be appropriate to open voting or if we should comment. You just can't do that. There are a lot of things that have to be worked out first before voting was started and you just drew up the forum, drew up policies without consulting any admin about how this was to be implemented, then opened voting less than 48 hours later. You just can't do that. Things take time, and the way this went about was not in favor of you. We are moving as fast as we can but you need to realize that it takes time and you just went so fast and didn't even come to any of us first.
 * And what to I say at the top of my talk page about leaving messages? Lancer1289 (talk) 18:17, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * I abode by both of your draconian talk page rules, so don't try to drag that one out on me. Anyways, I have given admins plenty of opportunities to weigh in on the policy. Initially, I went to Sparthawg for his input before I even made the page, and you jumped in and told me that all I needed to do in order to create a proposal for Live Chat was to "justify it", which I did. After making the page, Commdor stated that the community was able to green-light the policy, but admins are responsible for hammering out the details afterwards. This led me to believe I wasn't responsible for suggesting a conceptual policy or any rules to speak of, but I did so anyways. You later came by to move the page to projects, and simply told me that that was where pages without immediate voting went. After I discussed the policy with numerous users, I felt we were ready for a vote. I had been led to believe that I was doing things that were within my appropriate level of authority. Please don't accuse me of opening up a can of worms when you were the one who said that you didn't "have an objection" when I presented it to you. Had I known that there would be so many things that needed to be worked out before I could make a policy page, I would've done so.
 * The reason I'm trying to follow your end of the process is because I want to be sure that you're not just trying to sit on the proposal until it goes away. The fact that there have been several previous unsuccessful attempts when the community seems quite willing to vote for Live Chat has caused me to consider that possibility. You're very adamant that I've made all the wrong choices when forming this policy. Just tell me something I can do right, then. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 18:51, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * You did open the forum for discussion, but you came up with guidelines and opened voting without discussion of the proposal of guidelines. I did not object to the forum being opened because that is your right, as is everyone's. Anyone can open a forum for anything really, but the proposal itself was quite rushed because of misinterpretation of comments, not reading comments, or over-eagerness.
 * Let me point something out, Commdor in fact did not state that admins were responsible for hammering out the details afterward. What he did say is "[t]o be clear, whether or not to implement chat is up to the community, but the implementation itself and the rules and procedures that will govern chat will be handled by the admins." What this means is that while the community can open the proposal and vote on it, but not before all of the details were hammered out first. That way, everyone knew what they were voting for and everyone knew what they were getting into. We are working on it as fast as we can, but patience is needed. Especially given the fact that we were rushed into this. Lancer1289 (talk) 19:05, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * If you felt that the proposal was rushed, you should've said so last Wednesday when I suggested it. I didn't need admins to tell me that I "had the right" to propose it, I needed to know if it would work out. I've asked you twice now if there's anything I can do to help. If I'm not going to get answer, then I leave this in the hands of the admins. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 19:24, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * The only thing you can do to help is give us time to discuss and hammer out the details. Again, these things take time, and you moved the proposal through so fast that we didn't eve have time to discuss the fine details, hammer anything out, let alone get past "what are we going to do". Holding the vote for now is probably the best thing until we have have everything sorted. We are exchanging emails as fast as we can, for obvious reasons, but we are still trying to get things sorted out as quickly as possible. We just need time, but as stated, we didn't get a lot of it initially. Lancer1289 (talk) 19:32, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

Check your email, Lancer. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:51, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Checked and replied to. Lancer1289 (talk) 19:58, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * And replied. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:06, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * And replied as well. Hopefully for the last time. Lancer1289 (talk) 20:22, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * Maybe not. It's a very small issue though and can wait, as you'll see. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:29, September 16, 2012 (UTC)
 * To save sending another email, I'll just say here that your latest message has been received and acknowledged. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:34, September 16, 2012 (UTC)

What the hell
Why are the images i uploaded changed back to the lower quality, crappier versions? --MSV Estevanico (talk) 03:55, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * They are of lower quality. The smaller image size is a point of that. At this point, none of the images you have uploaded are good enough for articles, and they never have been. We put .png images above .jpg or .jpeg images. I'd highly recommend at this point to stop uploading images because so far, nothing you have uploaded, or a small minority, have been acceptable. Lancer1289 (talk) 05:26, September 17, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no. His images are of decent res, are in .png, good lighting and angles. As I see it this one here is what you guys seem to fight over, and I have to say MSV's is clearly superior. Filesize really doesn't matter jack squat as long as the quality is better, which clearly is the case with the new image. Also, the old one is of smaller res, has film grain option and bad lighting in it.


 * A side note, we're using lots of MSV's enemy images in other ME pages, because he did provide superior versions of what we had. --Kainzorus Prime Walkie-talkie  05:35, September 17, 2012 (UTC)

Thanks Kainzorus, Stop saying my images are crap lancer, you are being narcissistic --MSV Estevanico (talk) 05:47, September 17, 2012 (UTC)