Forum:Additions to Characters page

Liara as a Squadmate?
Okey, now when the LotSB DLC is out I think we can all agree that this page needs something of an update; so I thought I would start a section here where it could be discussed how we should do it. Me and SpartHawg948 have already had a discussion on this, a summary of which can be seen below:

(note:SpartHawg948, if you feel I have misrepresented you in a way, forgot to include one of your responses or arguments or anything, you are free to correct me) Swedish guy 12:14, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Arguments
Argument#1: Argument#2: Argument#3: Argument#4:
 * SpartHawg948's argument: inadequate clarification of Liara's position as a temporary squadmate.
 * My response: it is perfectly adequate, it literaly spells out that she is temporary.
 * SpartHawg948's response: still inadequate.
 * SpartHawg948's argument: your note messes up the formatting.
 * My response: it certainly doesn't, it's one line which goes along fine with the rest of the section.
 * SpartHawg948's response: I'm sorry, but it does.
 * My argument: it is redundant with a 'temporary squadmates' section since, while Liara is a character of great importance to the continuity and the plot, Wilson (and by extension; Jenkins) are nothing but plot devices and no characters on their own right. It would be misleading to lump them all together.
 * SpartHawg948's response: it is more misleading to put Liara together with the permanent squadmates. She is, after all, temporary.
 * My response: it is not misleading if you make it clear that she is temporary, the section is called 'Squad members' afterall, a criteria Liara fits perfectly, not 'Permanent squad members'. It's redundant to seperate them.
 * SpartHawg948's response: you don't make it clear enough that she is temporary (see Argument#1)
 * SpartHawg948's argument:Not everyone can have Liara or LotSB (think Eastern Europe).
 * My response: you can't have Kasumi or Zaeed (if you buy second-hand) either, unless you pay up, and you can't have Morinth unless you sacrifice her mother, still this is resolved on their individual pages, adn there's no need to seperate them, why Liara?
 * SpartHawg948's response: cause' once you get them they become permanent.
 * My response: doesn't matter (see Argument#3)

Squad Members
{|align="center" style="text-align:center;" {|align="center" style="text-align:center;"
 * Kasumi_Character_Shot.png
 * Legion_Character_Shot.png
 * LoTSB.png
 * Mirandanew.png
 * Kasumi Goto
 * Legion
 * Liara T'Soni
 * Miranda Lawson
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * Legion
 * Liara T'Soni
 * Miranda Lawson
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * Miranda Lawson
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * (temporary LotSB)
 * Mordin Character Shot.png
 * Morinth Character Shot.png
 * Samara Character Shot.png
 * Mordin Solus
 * Morinth
 * Samara
 * Mordin Solus
 * Morinth
 * Samara
 * Morinth
 * Samara
 * Samara

Temporary Squad Members
So, that was pretty much our discussion, which can be seen in its full on his discussion page. I think we both have made our positions clear, at least to each other, but what about you? The rest of the community, d'you have any opinions? ideas of your own or anything on how to update this page (or whether it needs an update at all) please post it here. Swedish guy 12:14, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm with Spart on this one. The little text bit looks silly, I'm vehemently against using acronyms in any of the articles, and since the size of the roles of each of the characters compared to Liara are an order of magnitude larger than Liara's, it doesn't seem right to wedge her into the article like that. She doesn't even really have the role of a squadmember, which is a character that follows you throughout the game and you can choose to take them on missions or not. Liara shows up once, you can control her for a bit, then she leaves.JakePT 12:22, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * Liara is more than a temporary squad member. She is a SqM more time than Wilson (who is about 10-15 minutes) but also she is not a permanent member but I think Sparts idea looks a bit more accurate.SoulRipper 12:34, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * How is she more than a temporary squad member? She's in the squad temporarily. Unless your definition of temporary is 'the amount of time Wilson was in the squad or less', in why case... why is that your definition?
 * Personally if I think Liara's probably better placed under allies, and we don't bother with a temporary squadmates section.
 * Actually, honestly, I'm not even a huge fan of this page at all.JakePT 12:43, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats exactly what I said. Wilson is a temporary squad member. He is for 10-15 minutes but Liara is for more than an hour. Thats more than temporary compared to the time that Wilson is.
 * Puting Liara to allies its even better.


 * (edit conflict): I agree that the mention of Liara is better suited under allies, rather then under Squad. It's a bit misleading referring to her as a squad member (temporary or not), she is not part of the squad and never meant to be, she and Shepard just combined forces for that particular mission (and I doubt we would of had this conversation if Liara wasn't a squad member in ME).
 * As I see it, Liara became an ally of Shepard rather then part of the team, and could possibly become his/her greatest ally, and I don't think that she should be mentioned on both the squad listing and the ally listing. --silverstrike 13:01, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

Allies
That looks better. SoulRipper 13:38, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow. This is getting really long. Any chance we can move this to the projects forum? I.E. the place things like this are supposed to take place? SpartHawg948 19:20, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * BTW... the one w/ the temporary squad members section looks great. The allies one, not so much, as it's inaccurate and misleading as of four days ago. Prior to that, sure, but I don't really think it cuts it anymore. SpartHawg948 19:22, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * On the other hand Liara after the mission becomes a allie.SoulRipper 19:30, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * She does. However, that doesn't take away from the fact that during the mission, she is a squad member, albeit only temporarily. SpartHawg948 19:35, September 11, 2010 (UTC)

If we're adding Liara, could we not also add the Shadow Broker as an adversary? I think he's significant enough. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:47, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure. Sounds reasonable. Seriously, though, this does need to go to the forums if the discussion is going to continue. It's already too massive as it is to reasonably be conducted here. And please note also that the arguments presented as mine above are gross oversimplifications of what I actually said. He points out my position without providing any of my substantiation. See my talk page if you want the whole story. But again, this really needs to be taking place in the project forum. SpartHawg948 19:49, September 11, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll move it myself if you want. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:53, September 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * That'd be great. The original user who proposed it likely won't be on for a while yet today, if his activities of late are any indicator. SpartHawg948 19:55, September 11, 2010 (UTC)