User talk:SpartHawg948

User:SpartHawg948/archive1

New Trivia Policy
Hey man, i usually edit some of the trivia facts or add new ones, and i noticed that u removed one of them because of the "new trivia policy". Just wondering what is it exactly. Ty very much :) Acmcear 01:17, December 16, 2009 (UTC) Acmcear
 * Please refer to either my blog entry on the policy or Talk:Pressha. Basically, if it's sheer coincidence that something in real life has the same name as a planet (like Pressha, Alko, and Camaron) it isn't trivia. SpartHawg948 01:26, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Help with ME Builds page
Hi all, I've been noticing some of the more tested builds from the official forums missing from the builds page. I added one of those unique ones for the Nemesis Adept by copying the existing code used, pasting it after what was already there, and editing reflect the build i wanted to add. I do not mean to alter any of the existing builds there and have not so far. After saving, it posted fine, listed right after the two that were already there.

Yet some how, that same technique seems to not work as well in the Soldier section. I tried to add my two favorite Soldier builds and yet after saving the Vanguard section is not displaying properly after the Soldier section. I have no idea what went wrong, I've check the code several times and it is all exactly the same as what was there before. Help!

(Also, the Vanguard build you have listed as APurpleCow's is wrong i think. I believe he had Shotguns at 00. He also had Barrier at 12, Warp at 06, and Tactical Armor at 08. Of course since then many on the official forums seem to agree that the better build would have Throw at 12, Warp at 12, Barrier at 07, and Tactical Armor 07. Of course that should be listed as a different build entirely from the what should be corrected APurpleCow build.)


 * Ok, well first, before I get to the substantive issues, please remember to sign your posts, which can be done by entering four tildes (this guy ~) at the end of the post. It's nice to have some idea of who left you a message at a glance, without having to check the page history.
 * Now to the issue at hand. I'm not the best person to ask for two reasons. 1) I'm not very computer literate myself. I'm pretty good with spelling and grammar and know my way around an edit, but when something goes wrong I'm generally clueless. And 2) I don't believe in putting class builds on this wiki. I am actually the one who championed the deletion of the Gold Standard Class Builds page, as it was entirely opinion-driven and didn't have any place on a factual wiki. Forums are the place for class builds, not an encyclopedia. SpartHawg948 21:20, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Oh! It's on a forum page and not an actual article! That would've been some useful info, as it could have saved me the whole "we don't do class build pages" spiel. Well then, unfortunately, even with that confusion cleared up, I still have no idea why it didn't work. And upon further reading, I would like to point out that, contrary to the statement that "Also, the Vanguard build you have listed as APurpleCow's is wrong i think..." no, I don't have anything wrong, as I have never contributed to that forum. Please take any discrepancies up with whoever actually entered that build. Thanks, SpartHawg948 05:50, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Vorcha Codex Pic
I've cropped out and uploaded a pic of the vorcha from ME2's codex. I haven't put it in yet on either the vorcha or races page as I wasn't sure if it would qualify as a spoiler as it is lifted from the codex and if the quality was ok. http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/File:Vorchacodex.jpg Is it ok to put in?--Xaero Dumort 20:42, December 17, 2009 (UTC)


 * Ok, quality looks good, and as it's just an image of a vorcha it shouldn't be a spoiler. However, at this time I would say feel free to put it on the races page but not the vorcha page. Reason being you can't really see much detail of the vorcha's face, unlike the picture currently there. Actually, now that I think about it the new pic should be fine on the vorcha page, but placed somewhere else in the article, with the current picture left where it is, again, b/c the current pic shows you more detail. SpartHawg948 21:15, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

Ok cool beans.--Xaero Dumort 00:18, December 18, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a little wide, I'll try to get around to cropping it a bit more later. The screenshot is ok quality so I'll try and touch it up but the height of the original image makes it so I can't do a 300x300, I hafta do XXXx300. Actually, just did it, should look decent at least.--Xaero Dumort 00:28, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Hello
Thank you for the warm welcome. Obviously, I am new to Mass Effect Wiki. I like to keep myself updated on the world of Mass Effect and this wiki has done a good job at that. Any tips for a new user? --Aeon117 21:50, December 17, 2009 (UTC)

I'd like to thank you as well for the welcome. While I'd joined at least several months ago, I've not been too active on this wiki. In fact, I think the Mako talk page the only page I've edited here, and that only twice (the first time with the glitch that became the origin for my name). But anyway, thanks for the welcome (your the first, lol) Zero-G Mako 12:12, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * No problem! Welcome aboard, we're always happy to have enthusiastic new editors! :) SpartHawg948 12:15, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Just want to say hi to a fellow Arizonan, and that my dad and I are big fans of the A-10! Delta1138


 * Me too! It's such a great airplane, so elegant and deadly. SpartHawg948 00:30, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

Elegant? It's not in the least bit elegant. Straight-wing, above-fuselage engines, and a square tail aren't that elegant. But it is a good-looking plane, and tough as hell. It is the best Attack-role aircraft out there, with high weapons capacity and the biggest nose gun ever put on an aircraft. But it isn't elegant. The F-22 is elegant, with its conformal engines, V tail, triangular wings, and fluid canopy. It even looks like a bird in sillhouette. Both are wonderful planes-probably the best at their roles-but are completely different in visual style. Sorry to argue semantics Zero-G Mako 03:41, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I would beg to differ. The A-10 is a beautiful plane in it's simplicity, and it is pretty much the most maneuverable jet aircraft out there that does not require thrust vectoring. Pretty elegant. And there is definitely something to be said about reliability. Why, there are F-22s out in Guam right now grounded because every time it rains, their electrical systems short out. That's just pathetic. The A-10 is simple, reliable, graceful, quiet, in a word, elegant. Also, please check your facts. The GAU-8 Avenger is not the "biggest nose gun ever put on an aircraft", not by a long shot. The North American B-25H Mitchell mounted a 75mm cannon in it's nose, which was a good deal bigger than a GAU-8 30mm.
 * Long story short, as someone who is intimately familiar with the A-10, it sure as hell is elegant, and I dare say more so than that visually pleasing but immensely flawed product known as the F-22. Elegant means "graceful in form or movement", and the A-10 certianly qualifies. And at the end of the day, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so, semantics or no, you can't tell me it isn't elegant. It may not be to you, but it sure is to me! SpartHawg948 04:01, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

The nose gun comment was an exageration, I'll admit, but I suppose that if I didn't include the WWII bombers then it would be a lot closer to accurate, if not completely accurate. But I can tell you - its not anywhere near being the most maneuverable jet out there, even when discounting thrust vectoring. Hell, the Tornado GR4 is more maneuverable, and it's only Attack role. Almost all of the MiG-s and Su-s Fishbed and beyond that made it into production are more maneuverable and none of them has thrust vectoring that I know of. The F-14, -15, -18, -4, -5, F/A-18, Typhoon, Rafale, and any of the Mirage series are all more maneuverable than the Warthog. The -22's flight characteristics give it such a forgiving stall envelope that it's hard to stall it even when you're trying, and then it's hard to keep it in a stall. The -22 has supersonic cruise, and it's stealth. That's hard to beat, even if they have maintainence problems. Pair it with an E-3C and it's nigh undefeatable. The A-10 is the best non-stealth attack aircraft out there, but Attack aircraft are not meant for maneuverability. Zero-G Mako 12:39, January 8, 2010 (UTC)


 * I take it you've never seen the USAF's ACC West Coast Demo Team then? The A-10 IS built for maneuverability, for one important reason. It can't outrun SAMS, (even the slow ones like the old Sea Slugs) so it has to outmaneuver them if it comes down to it. Look at the ginormous flight controls, the simple aerodynamics of it, the fact that it is imminently flyable without computer assistance, unlike the barely (or not at all) aerodynamic planes like the F-16, F-117, F-22, etc, which need fly-by-wire systems. After all, one of the Air Force's top requirements for the A-X program (which the A-10 won) was extreme low-speed low-level maneuverability. And no, the F-14 and F-4 are NOT more maneuverable, nor are many of the others mentioned. Big, fast supersonic birds like that are meant for fast flight in a straight line, not dogfighting. Want proof? The F-4 (known to it's pilots as the "Lead Sled", that should tell you how it handles) was originally fielded with no gun, as it was not envisioned that it would need to turn tightly and dogfight MiGs. And actually, the pre-MiG-21 Fishbed MiGs are far more maneuverable (especially the -17) than any post -21 or Su-anything prior to the 37. I've seen Tornados try to turn with A-10s, and they couldn't. As for the F/A-18, Rafale, Typhoon, etc... those are all fly-by-wire, the A-10 isn't, so it's hardly a fair comparison. In those planes you have a computer helping the pilot keep an inherently unmanageable plane airborne. Finally, it's not that the A-10 is the best non-stealth attack aircraft out there, it's the best ATTACK AIRCRAFT OUT THERE, PERIOD. And yes, attack aircraft are, and have to be, meant to be maneuverable. For slow planes like them, maneuverable=survivable. It's just common sense. SpartHawg948 21:44, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

No problem
If the vandals want a fight, I'll give it to 'em. There are few things I can't stand more than irritating people with too much time on their hands and a mischievous bent. Glad to be of help. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:59, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Party Members Footer
Hey there! I was wondering if the Party Members Footer for Mass Effect 2 should be changed to include Legion. There are a multitude of sources that verify this. Lazarusadamus 22:26, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Please provide sources, then we can talk. Thus far the only source that has been provided is the NowGamer source, even though it has been repeatedly stated that this is not valid, as they are known to print false or blatantly speculative materials. SpartHawg948 22:35, December 20, 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2 achievements leaked
I figure you might want the heads up: List here. There's so much stuff here that I'd rather not act on it myself; not only are certain plot events named, but there's several details for the squadmates. Your judgment on how to use this or not is probably best. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:58, December 21, 2009 (UTC)


 * I really don't want to look too much at it! It's like the Ark of the Covenant from Raiders of the Lost Ark! Well, I guess if someone wants to post this info, fine with me, as it appears to be properly sourced, and I'm sure JakePT will be thrilled with what it says about Garrus, but I'm sure not gonna be the one to look at/post it all! Plus, I'm lousy with images, and it'd be nice to get the achievement icons in the article too. SpartHawg948 21:02, December 21, 2009 (UTC)

Powers - Sentinel
It's clear that you know more of all this of Mass Effect than I (Mathius17) 02:10, December 22, 2009 (UTC)), but if you look at the sentinel video, you can actually see this "Slam" power on the power's tree
 * Hmmm... I've been steering clear of that kind of stuff, but I'll take a looksee and see what it says. SpartHawg948 02:15, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Slam is a Bonus Talent, it receives no attention in the video or interview, and on the class select screen at the beginning of the video there is no mention of slam at all. Add that to the fact every class has 6 powers, then it's pretty obvious Slam isn't a Sentinel ability and is far more likely something learnt later through other means. JakePT 02:23, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, upon review of the video that's the way it appears to me, as well. SpartHawg948 02:55, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * I might be late to the party, but that checks out with what was in CD-Action's review of ME2. Completing a teammate's loyalty subquest lets you pick a bonus talent at next playthrough. - 149.156.96.15 12:15, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why thank you for that spoiler. Although I admit I probably could've guessed the trend from Mass Effect 1 to continue :P Phylarion 12:18, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. Even when I try my very hardest to avoid spoilers, people bring them to me. How is that fair? I'm a good man. I pay my taxes, I serve my country, I do my best to make this an awesome wiki. I just wanted one little thing- to not be exposed to the deluge of spoilers that started coming out today till I had a chance to play the game myself. I guess that one little thing was too much... :( SpartHawg948 12:21, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

News blogs
Have you guys thought of using the blog functionality for news, like we do at The Vault? It's working out pretty well for us (see: The Vault:News. I've just added it to the Dragon Age Wiki as well. Ausir(talk) 23:32, December 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, Tullis does a monthly news blog. I personally have no real interest in starting or maintaining something of that nature, but that's because I tend to focus on content more than anything else as far as admin-type stuff. SpartHawg948 23:41, December 22, 2009 (UTC)

Long term IP blocks
As you know, I always defer to Tullis and yourself on administrative issues. Realizing that you may have already discussed this and arrived at a policy, I though I'd nevertheless check what the stance is for long term blocks on IP addresses. Right now, I see several one year blocks and even a number of infinite blocks. I would hope that the nature of vandalism being what it is, that the perpetrators lose interest in a couple of days for the most part. (Again, I have little operational experience here, and defer to your collective judgment.) I mention this since blocks on NAT addresses are going to constitute collective punishment for anyone who happens to be under the same umbrella. Perhaps a uniform policy of a zero-tolerance three day block, with progressively stronger penalties might be in order? --DRY 04:39, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ok, as for all that- the one year blocks is a recent thing that was discussed by Tullis and myself, primarily over email, as a response to a wave of vandalism we had a while back. The "official notification" can be found here. We pretty much decided on a blanket policy of one year blocks for vandals, although Tullis has amended this a couple times to 6 months. No real end date was set for this policy, but we pretty much decided on only a couple months, so probably no later than February we'll be back to business as usual. As for the infinite blocks, please see your email. :) SpartHawg948 04:57, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * All good &mdash; just wanted to make sure that the impact on NATs had been duly considered. As an aside, I wonder if a watch on a user page will trigger on a blog posting? I don't recall seeing any in the past, which is probably how I missed the announcement. (That being said, I also don't follow the forum.) --DRY 05:23, December 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it wasn't something that was done lightly. Coming down harder on vandals isn't something I enjoy doing, but we've been seeing unusual amounts of vandalism lately. Hopefully once ME2 releases it'll cool down and we can go back to normal. As for the blog watch thing, I also have no clue on that one. SpartHawg948 05:30, December 23, 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2 Achievements
I don't know who the admins are but you, so I just wanted to ask you that now that the achievements of Mass Effect 2 has been revealed, shouldn't we create a new article for this achievements? And when the game is released, we could update the info and images (sorry if there is something wrong with my english). Mathius17


 * I already addressed this issue above, under the heading "Mass Effect 2 Achievements Leaked". SpartHawg948 03:16, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Archangel
With all the info that we have about Mass Effect 2, we can certainly say that Archangel is Garrus... Any problem with the article I created about Archangel? I made it redirect to Garrus Vakarian. --Mathius17 03:37, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

RE: RE: me fanfic wiki
Actually, we could definately still use your help but what are the changes that you had in mind?--Kamikaz 04:20, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

I cannot believe that 144-Patient Appelant would act in such a manner, especially since he was the one who came up with half of those rules. I'll talk to him about that, unblock ralok, and then deal with the canonical stuff. Thanks for letting me know about those issues and I apoligize on behalf of my.....aquintance. By the way, Happy Holidays!--Kamikaz 04:54, December 24, 2009 (UTC)

Proposed addendum
Concerning a recent entry on your user page, an addendum would be nice. Also a formal appology from myself that situation was sort of embarassing. ralok 05:02, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not going to lie, I am really tired and stuffed at the moment, so my thought processes aren't really up to snuff right now. I think I may have just figured out what you're talking about, but if not, bear with me here. SpartHawg948 06:03, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, no apologies necessary for any of that. SpartHawg948 06:09, December 25, 2009 (UTC)

SuccessFull Website
I see several people citing an achievements list on this website as the source for posting confirmed information on Mass Effect 2, specifically characters that are recruitable as squad-mates. While my French is not that great, I understand that the purpose of the site is to post accomplishments for the Xbox 360 games, so it would list achievements for Mass Effect 2. What I don't understand is what sources the website used to confirm and list them for a game that has not been released yet. I cannot find anywhere in the SuccessFull website that posts the basis for confirming and listing the achievements so what makes it a reliable source to confirm squad-mates for Mass Effect 2? Is it employees or beta testers violating their NDA? --Dagmar H 04:58, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would assume that it is sourced from someone inside BioWare and/or the beta testers, although I don't think it necessarily involves violation of an NDA. It could be an intentional "leak". Achievement lists frequently get "leaked" for highly anticipated games a month or so before they release. SpartHawg948 05:19, December 26, 2009 (UTC)

Oh, my bad.
Sorry 'bout that, I thought that was the guy's talk page that I had posted to; just trying to help out a fellow Mass Effectee, Staff Sergeant. Griever0311 06:50, December 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries. Yup, it was an article. If it was a talk page, it would have said User talk:___ (insert name here) at the top of the page. No harm done though. Again, sorry about mistakenly posting that on your talk page. SpartHawg948 06:52, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Eh, poor situational awareness on my part. :p Griever0311 06:54, December 29, 2009 (UTC)


 * No worries, happens to us all from time to time. :) SpartHawg948 06:55, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Pretty cool glitch...
I loaded up a saved game on my 360 a few minutes ago and experienced a glitch I'd never seen before: my Shepard is wearing his BDUs (no armor) and is missing his assault rifle, and all my weapons except the pistol disappear when I switch away from them, and the assault rifle fails to show in the radial menu. I had Wrex and Garrus as my away team; they still had their armor, unlike me, but like me, their assault rifles were missing. The specific location is right outside Lorik Quinn's office, prior to the encounter with ERCS Sergeant Kaira Sterling in Port Hanshan. Loadout was unmodified Specter X gear across the board, with unmodified Predator H X, Mercenary X Medium, and Agent X Light for myself, Wrex, and Garrus, respectively. During the encounter and all subsequent cinematics, Shepard remained unarmored, including when I had him mount and dismount the Mako where your party usually activates the environmental seals on their helmets. It was pretty cool walking around looking like a C-Sec officer for a while, but when I went to the inventory screen to try to select my armor or assault rifle, the game became unresponsive. Not to say it locked up, but it seemed like there was a null value for the rifle, and it wouldn't let me navigate away until the non-existant thing loaded. Subsequent saves and reloads contiguous to the original file propagate the glitch, with the sole change of my other weapons staying on my back with subsequent reloads (excepting the assault rifle). I looked on the wiki and couldn't find a glitch like this, and figured I'd toss it to a featured user to see if you guys had ever encountered it. Thanks in advance. MarinesNeverDie 06:17, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I've never heard of any such thing. Very interesting... SpartHawg948 06:19, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

Question?
Mr. Hawgg according to the history of the miranda lawson age you posted something concerning commies, i am sure it was an accident. I think you undid the incorrect edit, it appears taht 72.235.11.235 actually undid his comment and you somehow undid the undo that he did. I want to beleive this was a mistake, please tell me that it was sir. Otherwise i will be dissapointed in you for calling the users of this wiki commies. ralok 00:55, December 31, 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed. As I posted on your talk page, and as my edit summary made clear, I was intending to undo the speculation, as I had done several times previously today. Please do not lecture me unless you have your facts straight. Even a cursory examination of the situation would have told you it was a mistake, and I SAID AS MUCH MYSELF on YOUR talk page. Also, one G. SpartHawg, not SpartHawgg. SpartHawg948 00:58, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * I didnt even read my talk page until after I had wrote this, soooooooooo sorry about spelling you name wrong (thats like the 50th time ive done that) sorry about the mini lecutre i gave, i sorta panicked when I idnt know what was going on. My big fear was that your account was hacked and that the SpartHawg that everyone on this wiki knows and loves would have been gone forever. But that didnt happen. ralok 01:26, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well I don't know about "loves", not really sure if there's a Spart fan club out there or anything. No worries. Sorry about being a little abrasive, I just wasn't in the mood for a lecture at the moment, this whole Miranda Lawson thing is getting pretty annoying. SpartHawg948 01:43, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome SpartHawg. But I have a question. Have you read anywhere at all that that ECRS makes their tempest sub machine gun for the Eclipse mercs? I can't find any relevant information on that topic. I'm thinking it might be speculative. Thanks. --TDuncan 06:11, December 31, 2009 (UTC)TDuncan


 * Not sure... all I can suggest at the moment is to check the issue of Game Informer magazine that is used as a reference. I don't have a copy handle, or I'd do it to verify. SpartHawg948 07:27, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * The text is copied directly from the official ME2 website, Arsenal section. JakePT 08:49, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

Confusion Re: Armours and Pre-order on ME2
Sorry, I think I got my wikis crossed here. I meant you could add the fact under the 'Trivia' header (several other wikis I read use the 'Behind the scenes' heading for same).

I'm fully in agreement a separate page would be a waste of time for what little info it gets across. I just thought that a note on the page for the armour itself under that 'misc crap people like to know' kind of header (that'd be 'Trivia', right?) that 'This armour was available immediately to customers who pre-ordered via blah blah blah' would be worth leaving on the armour page for the sake of historical posterity. I dunno about anyone else but I like knowing all these facts years after the game was released, I think it ought to exist *somewhere* after release. :) --LeathamGrant 07:33, December 31, 2009 (UTC)


 * Fair enough... we'll see how it pans out when the game releases and go from there as far as placing trivia sections for the relevant armors. SpartHawg948 09:11, December 31, 2009 (UTC)

cool. You're right JakeHT. Thanks for clarifying. --TDuncan 16:48, December 31, 2009 (UTC)TDuncan

RE: Speculation Policy
On the talk page you said there was a possibility for Adams to be in Mass Effect 2, so I... forget it. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  04:49, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... didn't know that comments I make on talk pages are now considered approved sources for speculation on this site. Must have missed that memo... :P SpartHawg948 04:55, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

No. I'm not saying what you said is a source. I SAID that what you said there was a POSSIBILITY. So I put: THERE IS A POSSIBILITY THAT ADAMS WOULD REAPPEAR IN MASS EFFECT 2 on the Engineer Adams page. I didn't put down: ADAMS WOULD DEFIDENTLY REAPPEAR IN MASS EFFECT 2. Prove me if I am wrong. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  05:01, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, didn't know that my comments on talk pages are sources for ME2! As I said on your talk page, speculation needs a source. Your response was that I had said on a talk page that he might reappear. This made it look like you were citing my comment on the talk page as a valid source, which it clearly is not. I think I just proved you wrong. SpartHawg948 05:05, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Above I didn't say what you said is a source. I'm not going to keep going on about this crap anymore. Look at the time, I need to play the downloadable content on Assassin's Creed 2. Good day. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  05:08, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * And a good day to you sir. In the future, when I inform you that you need a source for speculation, don't respond that "On the talk page you said there was a possibility for Adams to be in Mass Effect 2" unless you are citing me as a source. Because that sure looks like what that statement is saying. And when I refute the claim, don't do the whole "look at the time..." thing. While the comedic value of it was GREAT! (honestly, it sounded like it came straight out of a movie!) it doesn't help your case. Again though, good day, or more accurately (for me anyways) good evening, and enjoy Assassins Creed 2! I have it, but have yet to pop it in and try it out, although I am looking forward to it! SpartHawg948 05:15, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Assassins creed 2 is a great game, beats the original by a thousand miles. IT deals with alot of our fears in the modenr era, it makes consiracies seem plausible. IT is overall just awesome. They way they work in 2012 prohpecies, science fiction and all the conspirac theories that seemed to exsist ever is brilliant. And when you leave the animus before the credits there is a line that is sooooo perfect. IT sums up all of my feelings of everything that happened directly preceeding that moment, brilliantly crafted game. Also leonardo Da vinci is your homeboy. ralok 11:50, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Very nice! The original was fun, but the ending was a huge letdown. I was looking forward to it before, and now after your comments I'm even more stoked... I think I may know what I'm doing tomorrow! Also, I'm psyched about hanging out with Da Vinci! I have the little Da Vinci flyer accessory downloaded for my XBL avatar. SpartHawg948 11:52, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I am not going to lie, it may have one of the best endings in a video game ever, it has a perfectly executed line. It sets up the sequal perfectly. And you continue playing into the credits, the credits are on the screen and you are still playing the game. . . . if that isnt art i ddont know what is. I have been pplaying games my entire life an it must have been the most satisfying ending ever, and even the beginning, it rolls right from the first game into the second. It doesnt skip a beat. And altair isnt forgotten, they actually wrap up his story in the game. ralok 12:21, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I was breifly afrai that i might have spoiled something, if i somehow spoiled the awesomness of the game for you, feel free to get really mad at me. ralok 12:26, January 2, 2010 (UTC)

Where I Stand
First up, I just wanted to apologise for any misunderstandings earlier, I didn't mean to cause any offence, I feel like I felt my ideas were being being rejected too readily, and let that get to me, and didn't give your comments the respect they deserved, so I apologise for that, and will take things more slowly in the future.

Secondly, I have created a page just to get my position across more clearly and more accurately. I have taken the Garrus page and edited it to reflect my ideas for how I would have the page look were I in charge (I'm well aware I'm not). Just to give an idea of the kind of style I'm advocating. Don't pay too much attention to images, since they're just placeholders, I don't actually want that info box picture for example, it was just the rough aspect ratio I wanted. I've also incorporated the Spoiler placement/size I advocated a while back (the actual design would need to be a bit different, maybe an image or something, different colour etc.) and moved images to where I think they look best. Generally speaking I've done what I thought would be necessary to make the wiki look the best it can, at least the best I can make it look.

Basically, if you want to see where I stand on the many design aspects of the wiki, there you go. I just thought it would be clearer where I was coming from If I showed you the 'complete package', so to speak.

PS: Yes, I do have too much time on my hands at the moment.

EDIT: I've added rationalisations behind the things I did to the Talk Page for the example, and I think any discussion related to it directly should be had there. JakePT 12:37, January 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ok, that's all I ask is that my opinions be shown the same respect I showed yours. Personally I do think it pretty ridiculous that we're having to go through all this because one editor doesn't really like the current boxes, but never once did I take your ideas any less seriously because of my personal feelings, nor did I let it bleed over into the commentary until you had done so first.
 * As for the Garrus page: 1) I still (if you will recall I opposed this when it was first brought up) do not like the little arrows in the spoiler box, as they look silly are are, quite frankly, redundant. If people can't figure out that "spoilers follow" means the spoilers come after the tag, that's their own damn fault. Spoilers FOLLOW is pretty damn clear in it's meaning. I am also more favorably disposed to the current spoiler tags. I like that yours extend nearly across the entire article, but I like the current tags with the quotes (well, all but the ME one have quotes) and without the pandering arrows (no offense meant to you, it's just that the arrows make it seem like we have to pander to the lowest commom denominator... I really dislike the arrows, if you haven't noticed!) And I am still more partial to having the tag ABOVE the heading. It just seems kind of silly having it below the heading. It seems like something Captain Obvious would do, putting a tag saying "Mass Effect 2 Spoilers Follow" right under a great big headline that says MASS EFFECT 2. (and no, I wasn't calling you Captain Obvious, I just love using that turn of phrase!)
 * Other than that it looks ok, with one exception... if implemented, the article isn't going to be written partially in Latin like the example, is it? (my Latin is pretty rusty, so I hope not!)
 * That's my take on the character page demo. Haven't looked at the others yet, was dealing with other stuff while mulling over what to put here( some of that other stuff, btw, is on your userpage. Sorry for the unpleasant sounding post, but I don't make exceptions for people I know and trust with this rule). Summary: Sorta like the spoiler tags, but lose the arrows (if they were smart enough to find the site, they should be smart enough to discern the meaning of the phrase Spoilers Follow), keep them above the headline, and maybe merge it with the current tag, and lose the Latin. SpartHawg948 20:11, January 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've implemented your suggestions to the spoiler warnings if you want to check the page out again, I moved them above the headings, added quotes back and removed the arrows.
 * The latin text is just standard placeholder text, to demonstrate the layout with more content, if I were to implement any of this I'd remove the Powers section, the latin stuff and the extra images.
 * If I were to do this I'd also need to make the spoiler warnings into templates, I've already made the Talents changes I made into a template where the editor just needs to enter the images and power names and the template takes care of the layout.
 * I wouldn't be doing any of that anyway until I hear from Tullis also though.
 * JakePT 05:39, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. I saw the tags and they look very nice. As for the Latin, I was fairly certain it wasn't going to be staying, but just had to make sure. :) And yes, I do really like the talents sections now, very visually appealing. So, if Tullis has no objections, I don't really have any either! SpartHawg948 07:02, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * One more question though... what's the standard you are using for location? I know originally I said pre-recruitment location, but that could be somewhat problematic for some characters like Garrus who move around. Honestly, I don't really like the idea of having all the squadmembers locations designated as on the Normandy (especially since two of them aren't necessarily squad members depending on choices you make) but it is probably the best bet. SpartHawg948 07:37, January 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * In this case I left it as-is when compared to the existing page, mainly because I honestly have no idea how any alternatives would work. The place you first meet them would be kinda pointless info and can vary with some characters, or place where they're recruited, but that too can vary or not make sense (Tali, Ambassador's Office, would seem kinda odd), and you'd have a different standard for non recruitable characters. ME2 Characters appear to have much more clear cut locations (where they're recruited), but they'll also spend most of their time on the Normandy, which complicates things. For example Mordin is on wherever he is (I'm thinking Omega now) before you recruit him, but will spend the vast majority of the game in the Research Labs. I'm leaning towards the location where they spend most of their time, simply because it is the easiest to apply across characters, and is also (at least in ME1's case), the most useful. Having multiple locations with (after recruitment) or something would make things clearer, but also clog up the info box, and possibly get very large, depending on the character (Garrus would have 4, for example), so that's not the most ideal choice.


 * Looking forward to ME2 it looks like the current standard will be relatively easy to apply as well, though could constitute a spoiler for some characters (like if Legion ends up being a squadmember*). You have things like Mordin being in the research labs, Jacob being in the Armory, Miranda in her office, Illusive Man Unknown etc. Though for characters like Mordin, Omega would be useful info also.


 * That could be solved by having Legion's, and only Legion's, location as whatever other location he is (looks like his own ship, judging by enemies trailer), and only mentioning where he goes on the Normandy later in a spoiler warning section.


 * That brings up another issue, if Legion is recruitable, and this could apply to Garrus as well, that means he'll have a Powers section, making the TOC a hard to miss spoiler. Not sure how to work around that one.JakePT 11:53, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh, and there's also the issue of multiple-game characters. Like for Garrus, do we put his ME2 location in the info box? Do we have another info box under the ME2 section? Do we just not have ME2 info in the info box? One solution is
 * {| width: 300px


 * width="200px" |Location:
 * align="right" | Normandy SR1 Garage ME
 * colspan="2" align="right" |Normandy SR2 Engineering ME2
 * }
 * But that's hardly the most elegant solution, and is it a spoiler? Probably, it is well above any ME2 section/spoiler warning, and not very fair to someone new to ME1 who wants to play ME2 spoiler-free.
 * A solution to that, and to the naming issue with Tali, would be to have a second Info Box under the ME2 Dossier section, which would have their ME2 name (vas Normandy for Tali, possibly Archangel for Garrus), their ME2 affiliation and their ME2 location.
 * I'm really open to any ideas here. JakePT 12:06, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm really open to any ideas here. JakePT 12:06, January 4, 2010 (UTC)


 * Allrighty... hopefully some of this makes as much sense when I write it out as it does in my head! For squadmates it does seem like the best option is to put where they can be found post-recruitment. I'm not the biggest fan of it, but it seems to be the only viable option. Allies can be listed by where they are, obviously and adversaries probably leave unknown except for some special cases like the Thorian (not many places for it to go!) I'll get to Legion at the end of the comments.
 * Multi-game characters... I think that it may work all right to have a somewhat abbreviated second info-box for ME2, with just the location (and maybe affiliation if it has changed). It may not be the most ideal solution, but it would work.
 * Now, as for Legion... not sure if you played it or not, but in the game Dragon Age:Origins there is a character generally referred to as a "secret" companion, because you can (but don't have to) acquire them later in the game and there is absolutely no indication before hand that they will be able to join you. The DA:O wiki handles this nicely, I think. They don't make any indication in the format of the article that this individual is recruitable. It is stated in the text of the article, but there are sections of article that are included in articles in companions that are not included in this one, as then, as you had said, the TOC would be a dead give-away. I think we may want to consider that route, if needs be. SpartHawg948 20:36, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I brought up the Legion issue on the Characters talk page and suggested something similar, it's probably the best option, however the situation isn't quite as clear cut as Dragon Age. I never followed the build up to that game (though I ended up buying it and playing it), so I don't know if the secret companion notion was BioWare's or entirely an invention of the wiki folks. However, in this case BioWare has said 10 Squadmembers and he's clearly one of them (if it ends up being him, which is highly likely), so it's not like we have 10 confirmed squadmembers and then a secret squadmember, it seems like he fits in with the rest of the companions, having his own loyalty and special mission achievements, unlike DA's Secret Companion who was more of a special thing towards the end of the game. I suppose we'll have to wait until we play the game to see how things unfold, but until then I say Legion stays in adversaries and any references to him being a squadmember be kept securely behind spoiler warnings.
 * On another note I just want to see if you'd be ok with me implementing the Talents table with pictures into the existing ME1 character articles. It'd be a relatively simple job, I'd just have to move the Template out of my Sandbox, probably to something like SquadmemberTalents and fill in the info on the relevant pages (only 4 of them, Tali and Garrus are ready to go).
 * Ideally I'd like to move the other stuff over too (Info box, spoiler warnings, squadmember boxes, general layout+), but I'll understand if you're not too eager to go ahead with any of that just yet.
 * +By general layout I mean I'd like to keep the idea of 230px wide screenshots, all aligned to the right, at the top of the sections they're under.
 * JakePT 07:35, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, and I don't know what to do about Garrus' rank/title. The current info box has Agent, but I think that's only taken from the Class (I can't find any other source), so I don't know if it's really correct as a rank/title, let alone calling him 'Agent Garrus Vakarian'. He's also called 'Officer' and 'Investigator' interchangeably. JakePT 07:40, January 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * That is an excellent point regarding Legion and DA:O's companion... I hadn't factored in thw whole 10th squad member thing... good call! I suppose we would probably have to treat it as a squad member, although maybe if you recruit Legion partway through like the "Secret Companion" we could have a pre-recruitment section, then below that a section on Legion as squad member, complete with info box, ans yes, locate that all securely below the lovely new spoiler tags.
 * Officer would be my preferred title for Garrus, as he is a C-Sec Officer. And about making the changes to the ME1 characters... I have no objection to those being added in now, but I'd prefer it to be an all-or-nothing thing, as opposed to piecemeal. So as long as they can all get the talents section added in, I have absolutely no objection. SpartHawg948 08:28, January 5, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'm waiting to hear back from Tullis (I found the email thing, turns out I hadn't confirmed my email, didn't show up until I did), but in the meantime I was fiddling with the Charge page to try out different ways of displaying the Power Ranks and, well, I got a bit carried away, so I moved what I'd done to the Sandbox to get your thoughts.

User:JakePT/Sandbox/Charge

All the data, except the description of the two evolved versions, is complete junk, I just made it up to fill in the blanks.

The way I see it, advantages are that it can be added to Powers that are also ME1 talents, without adding a whole bunch of new subheadings, which are running out once you add a 'Mass Effect 2' heading above them. It's also shorter, taking up less vertical space. It's also less dull than a plain old list, and has a teensy bit more colour. Disadvantages are that it's harder to edit, which isn't a huge problem since the data isn't going to change after it's all put in once. It's also got some readability issues, meaning that it looks a bit cluttered, so I'm looking into ways of improving it in that area.

JakePT 09:02, January 6, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, just wanted to try and bring your attention to the power ranks table I made on User:JakePT/Sandbox/Charge again. I've improved it quite a bit since I first posted it and I wanted to see what you thought. JakePT 11:48, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Reaper edits
You are assuming that I expect some sort of privilege. Please do not take something you believe I said out of context. And, I did not ask for an explanation as to why my edits were reverted, you've appeared to inadvertently wasted approximately five to ten minutes of both our time doing so. I quite simply stated that if i am to be treated as so, I will simply not bring myself to this wiki. Do not take this post in a hostile manner either, if you would. I am not here to argue pleasantries over a matter as simple as this. Thank you. P  i   r   a   t   e   h   u   n   t   e   r   (Talk&bull;Contribs) 03:25, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...sigh. Shouldn't you place the bit about not taking it in a hostile manner before the part in which you state I have wasted your time? (And how can you state I wasted my time? Do you have more knowledge of my activities and the value of said activities than I do? I find that hard to believe) All I asked was that you familiarize yourself with this site before making further edits, as so far you have contributed literally nothing to the articles here, and speaking of wasted time, there was all that time it took you to make those edits, then the time it took the others to revert them... SpartHawg948 03:29, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * And as for taking anything out of context, what other way is there to take someone saying "I know a couple of things about how to work a wikia." (a direct quote) followed by a link to a page stating they are an admin on another wiki? SpartHawg948 03:31, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Either way I am and did ask you to leave this alone. Apparently that is a problem? P   i   r   a   t   e   h   u   n   t   e   r   (Talk&bull;Contribs) 04:44, January 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't really have a problem with anything, although I also don't recall asking me to leave anything alone. If you could supply a quote that would be very helpful. More than likely I would be willing to leave whatever it is alone (assuming you had asked, although I did just re-read the original post and don't see any such request) but as an admin of the site, if whatever I am being asked to leave alone is something I can't reasonably leave alone and still do my admin duties the answer would obviously be no. So yeah, a quote showing where you asked me to leave "this" (whatever "this" is) alone would really help. Thanks, SpartHawg948 07:16, January 4, 2010 (UTC)

Miranda Lawson
hey I'm new to just this wiki, but I was searching BioWare's main website, and they released a new video on Miranda Lawson, as well as a little info on her on the characters page of BioWare's website. I put the link of the video on Miranda's talk page. Thanks! --Masqueradebunny14 01:40, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Jaroth image
SpartHawg, you know that Jaroth article I just made? I don't have a high quality camera to take a pic, but here's how I could of taken the pic. Make sure you have a high quality camera, watch the youtube video on the Jaroth page, pause it right at 7:58, before it zooms in on him, put it HD. And take the pic. Can you do that, because like I said up there I can't. LordDeathRay  (Comm Chatter)  13:39, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ummm... no. No I can't. Thanks for assuming I can and instructing me to do so though. I don't have a camera period. So no, I will not "take the pic". Also, no, not familiar with the Jaroth article at all. Not like I went behind you and did a major overhaul on it or anything. Not familiar with it at all... SpartHawg948 21:34, January 8, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sorry but what's wrong with taking a screenshot? JakePT 11:45, January 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Besides, if you're capturing from a YouTube vid, something like Fraps or even PrintScreen would be better than a camera; they pick up screen texture and it always shows. See our M29 Grizzly pic -- it took a lot of cleanup to make it viable. --Tullis 12:53, January 10, 2010 (UTC)

Finding Liara T'Soni hallucination
I've found something new about this quest and I think this information could be in the alternate scenario of that page.

I always knew that if you left this assignment to be the very last you get the hallucination conversation between Liara and Shepard. But I like to play as a female Shepard and have Liara as my love interest, so I usually do this quest after Feros or after I leave the Citadel for the first time.

You don't need to wait until the last mission to get this very funny conversation, just doing this assignment after completing Feros and Noveria will do the trick. The difference is that she will not became frightned by the krogan battlemaster and the conversation in the Normandy is equal as if you do this quest in the normal way (first time leaving the Citadel or after Feros).

Also, I discovered that if you do the quest this way, do not choose Kaidan as your love interest and after the crew debriefing go talk to him, you get the same line as if you were playing as a male Shepard! If you don't remember, when you're a male Shepard and complete Therum, you have the option to ask Kaidan if he's interested in Liara and tell him that you saw her first.

Doing the mission this way as a female Shepard you got the same line and Kaindan will reply "well, I know the Asari are very open to this". :D LOL

And excuse any errors or inconsistencies, english is not my primary language. Brfritos 02:25, January 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, I've never seen it, so I can't put it in the article as I have no idea what happens, nor was I able to clean it up, as the bit you added didn't make sense (no offense or anything, I understand English can be tricky to people unfamiliar with it) so I wasn't able to make heads or tails of it. SpartHawg948 02:47, January 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * What do you think now, it's better?

"However, if you do the Feros and Noveria assignments and then rescue her before Virmire you'll still get the hallucination dialog. The main difference is that she will not be affraid of the Krogan Battlemaster and the conversation on the Normandy is the same as if you rescue her in the beggining of the game". Brfritos 17:57, January 12, 2010 (UTC)


 * Ummm... let's see... "affraid" should be afraid, "beggining" should be beginning, and it could still use a rewrite. I think I may get the gist of it. "if you complete the assignments on Feros and Noveria prior to rescuing Dr T'Soni, you will still receive the hallucination dialogue, however she will not react fearfully to the Krogan Battlemaster." Something like that? It doesn't seem necessary to point out that the conversation is the same, unless this is in some way unusual. SpartHawg948 19:22, January 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ops, sorry for the "affraid" and I always change the two "n" for the two "g" in the beginning LOL. But yes, that's what I've wanted to write all this time! You saying that the conversation on the Normandy doesn't matter makes sense, since nothing changes on it. And thanks for the help, BTW. Brfritos 04:16, January 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * No problem! Always happy to help! :) SpartHawg948 04:19, January 13, 2010 (UTC)

Awww thankies :) if you could add friends on here i'd add you :P

Re: Giveaway
Hi SpartHawg. First allow me to thank you for taking the high road during that ridiculous flame war that the comments devolved into. The good news is that it's been fixed (comments are gone). Please see the message I just left on Tullis's talk page for the full explanation. Cheers. JoePlay ( talk ) 22:33, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough! Yeah, my first comment on that post was clearly in jest but may not have been the best note to take, but afterwords I tried to keep it as civil and on-topic as possible. Well, that's one headache resolved! Huzzah! SpartHawg948 22:36, January 14, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2
There is a video on Bioware about Mass Effect 2, I think its Sci vs Fi. If you already seen it I apologize for bothering you. Just wanted to let you know.

A heads up
What's with that Revan's Exile chap anyway? I'm seeing some serious childish angst issues. 'Don't be stupid, listing it twice does nothing', a simple, 'corrected name' would've done. Apparently he also doesn't like the fact you or Tullis have been posting things on his Talk Page either, not that no-one can easily flip back and see what has been removed. Phylarion 17:56, January 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Dealt with. He'd been warned, and he finally crossed the line. The first thing I noticed was that he erased my entry asking him to not use non-existent sources to back speculation, with an edit summary of "Don't put garbage here." Lovely, but I was willing to overlook it. When I say, however, the edit summary you listed above, that was the last straw. We won't be seeing him editing articles for about a month. SpartHawg948 20:51, January 16, 2010 (UTC)

did I miss something?
I notice you deleted my redirect from The Citadel to Citadel... I thought it was standard practice on most wikis to redirect commonly-used terms to their appropriate article page to avoid users having to navigate the search results page. Given that Citadel is often referred to as 'The Citadel' in-game, this seemed like a fairly obvious edit. If there's a usage guide that specifies when to (and when not to) use redirects, could you let me know? I'm not convinced that 'we never had it before so we don't need it now' is a particularly good justification for deleting a single redirect, but if I've missed an important rule or guidelin or whatever then I'd appreciate knowing... thanks in advance. --Careless hx 04:08, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Refer to the Style Guide's section on redirects. "However, please refrain from creating large numbers of aliases which are not likely to ever be needed." That quote, from the aforementioned section, pretty much says the same thing as "we never needed it before so we don't need it now", doesn't it? Also, I'd appreciate it if you could remove that nasty redlink from my talk page. I'd do it myself, but I always prefer to ask the person who actually made the comment first rather than going back and editing their comment for them. Thanks, SpartHawg948 04:14, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not convinced that one fairly obvious redirect constitutes 'a large number' of aliases, but thanks for the pointer to the style guide at least. Redlink removed. --Careless hx 07:40, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. You're not convinced one "fairly obvious" redirect constitutes 'a large numer' of aliases (which I never said it did, the section cautions against creating aliases that are not likely to be needed, it just happens that when you do it several times you get a large number of them) and I'm not convinced that the redirect was either necessary or "fairly obvious". You asked if you missed something, and I showed you the section of the guidelines I was going off of. Also, thanks for removing the redlink. SpartHawg948 07:49, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

Miranda as a love interest
Hi, I made the change to miranda being a love interest. I was about to post the youtube video as a refernece when you deleted it.

I'll post it here just in case: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jobEsi7iU40

It's a small clip, at about 30 seconds in.


 * Yup. I've seen it. It's not a valid reference, as we see Miranda, and we see what could be part of Shepard's forehead, but that's it. Not enough for confirmation, not by a long shot. SpartHawg948 05:48, January 17, 2010 (UTC)

alright, sorry about that

Personal Timeline
I have created a personal timeline for my needs on my user page. I think and hope this will keep you and the others quiet and out of my way. I have no intention of contributing to the public side of the website anymore in the future. End of Line.Throwback 23:53, January 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Keep me quiet and out of your way? Wow! Tell me how you really feel! All we were asking was that you not post speculation as fact. There were multiple instances where you posted things I didn't object to from a factual standpoint, so they stayed! Simple as that. My only problem is when patently false and/or speculative material is posted as fact (as you did several times on the Timeline and Earth pages.) Please be mindful of your tone when addressing other users. You've been cautioned by other admins for this in the past, and it is wearing thin. If you don't want to have to interact with other users, don't wish to contribute to the site, and just want a personal timeline to play with, might I suggest the Mass Effect Fan Fiction Wiki? There you can speculate to your heart's content and put whatever you want into your timeline, free from having to deal with comments from others. Thanks, SpartHawg948 00:03, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you wish people to "remain quiet and out of your way", contributing to a wiki may not be for you. Every edit has the caveat at the bottom "If you don't want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, then don't submit it here." Storing the timeline on your hard drive would also keep it free from interference, without the need to be publicly hostile about it.
 * However, if you wish to cease contributing: sorry to see you go and I wish you luck. --Tullis 01:06, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Personal Opinions
If you look at my personal timeline, you may discern my thinking. My approach is not speculative; it's conservative. When we have conflicting statements, of which there are many, the best approach is the conservative one. Instead of tying the events to years, I place them in centuries. This doesn't take away from the flow of the narrative. Secondly, I list my sources. This leads to some complaints I have about this website. For instance, in the timeline, there are events which I don't know the source of - for instance, the discovery of the elcor. Unlike you and Tullis, I don't remove this from the website. I assume there is a basis for this statement and that the reason I don't recognize it is that I haven't come upon the source yet. This leads to another issue. Other than the codex entries, there is no reference to source material. Let's talk about the President Huerta of Earth from the game. I am told by you that because another person heard from another person that this fact is spurious that I should come to accept this. This is ridiculous. Unless that statement can be traced to its origin, it's hearsay. (And the statement that is present on the Earth entry that Huerta is a president of a country is speculative. There's no evidence for this. If Tokyo is removed, then this should be removed.) I suppose in the end that we will never be able to communicate successfully, and as you are an administrator - one who sets out what is permissible - that we will always be at loggerheads. Throwback 04:45, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is NOT speculative to state Huerta is president of a country. Know why? Because Chris L'Etoile, the writer who wrote that bit of dialogue, says it is accurate to state Huerta is president of one country (he intended Huerta to be president of the US). The writers seem like pretty good sources, no? Regardless, it isn't stated as FACT that Huerta is president of just one nation, just that it is likely so. LIKELY SO. Why is it likely so? For the same reason Tokyo IS NOT capital of Earth- the Codex specifically states Earth is still divided into independent nations. And yes, your approach is speculative in certain regards, such as making up finite start and stop times for the Geth War based off of dialogue which states nothing of the sort! Finally, no idea what this "I am told by you that because another person heard from another person that this fact is spurious that I should come to accept this" line is about. You are right, it is ridiculous, which is why I never said it! SpartHawg948 04:50, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * The timeline has all its sources given at the bottom of the page. Also, as a side note we know that the data given in Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183 was from design docs that may have been altered later and contain some out of date information.
 * As for removing items: I think I removed the red sand reference, which having seen in GC:EE 2183 I'll now put back in (it seemed spurious to tie down the initial use of a drug to one year; did the users keep records? but never mind) and I've asked for sources regarding all the first contact stuff in 200 BCE-1 CE. So yes, maybe I occasionally remove things that are sourced. But if I do, unless I'm contacted and told that they are properly sourced and where to find it, I can't admit that I'm wrong and fix it. --Tullis 05:25, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Delete tags
Oops. I mess things up sometimes. hehehehe. LordDeathRay (Comm Chatter)  20:57, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I just made an edit to the Drell Page, but I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to putting information in a Wiki. It looked pretty self-explanitory to me, but I guess it was harder than I thought. All the info is there, and it's legit. Sorry!
 * Hi, don't worry, I cleaned it up, the main thing thing you did wrong was have a space before the start of each paragraph, that causes

this to happen.
 * Check out the Help page for all the info on how to properly edit the wiki. Also, when you make comments on Talk pages please sign your comment by adding this to the end of your message: ~
 * Cheers. JakePT 17:44, January 19, 2010 (UTC)

Armor Table Credit
Heyo. I was wondering who put together the current Armor table... it's been really helpful for me. I'm putting together a tabletop RPG mod and needed armor stats, so I used most of the ones on there and used the table code as well (as my wiki code skills aren't that great). I wanted to give a shout-out if there was a particular user (I already credit MEWiki as a whole for it).

The (incredibly simplified) table is here: w:c:masseffectcortex:Armor. Boter 22:42, January 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * No idea. I would suggest checking the page history to see who added it. That's exactly what I'd do to find out anyways. SpartHawg948 22:49, January 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * Oh right. Duh. *facepalm* Boter 15:13, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

FudgeSociety
Dude, you have to get this guy named FudgeSociety. He's been deleting some of this site's articles from Ashley to Mass Effect 2. He's treating it like a game. Only one guy is fixing his screw ups. Thought I let you know. - Matt xMan 14:10, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Seconded. Remove this scumbag. He's edited TophVision's user page to say some pretty obscene stuff. I've left it there FYI. Phylarion 14:13, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Got 'im. His ass is now permanently banned. Thanks guys. Though, don't leave obscenities on user pages if they've been vandalised; undo it if you can, and we can just check the history to see what's up. --Tullis 14:25, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * And oh look, he's already trying to make a new account. How sweet. If anyone sees this jerk again, let me know ASAP. --Tullis 14:28, January 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * That SOB! Sorry I wasn't around to block him myself! :( SpartHawg948 19:34, January 20, 2010 (UTC)

Miranda Lawson Romance
I have proof that she is a romance interest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NALIkW5yGBI

If you go to the Talk:Romance page, you'll know I already had it confirmed with where the video originally appears (Gametrailers.com) H-Man Havoc 02:08, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup. I've known about this proof since someone else notified me of of about... 31 hours ago now! (and confirmed when I myself saw it 26 hours ago) :P SpartHawg948 06:27, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Vandal
We have another... IP 212.219.195.8. Phylarion 11:42, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Got 'em. Good looking out! SpartHawg948 11:51, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * And another... IP 81.243.16.43 Check the past revision to Mass Effect 2 Twilsemail 15:07, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Image loading issues
Hi again. Well, JakePT and I have been having a bit of trouble with loading up images of Miranda's alternate outfits. Apparently the pictures will not load previews or thumbnails, but the actual image will. Have we got a space limit or a bandwidth limit or something that could be causing this? Phylarion 15:22, January 21, 2010 (UTC)


 * Never mind. It's worked now. Apparently 2 minutes is far too short to wait, just me getting impatient. Phylarion 15:38, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Legion
How is this for evidence?
 * Not sure... as I think I made pretty clear on the Talk:Legion page, as well as my user page, I am now trying my very best to avoid spoilers of any sort. If this is the video that purportedly shows Shepard recruiting Legion, I have no desire to see it. SpartHawg948 12:00, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Character pages
It's getting a bit ridiculous the number of unregistered people who are editing the various character pages. Whether out of good or ill, there are people (such as myself) who don't want to know, nor even care, what leaked footage shows or says, and have no intention of watching these videos. The game hasn't come out yet, Justin.tv or similar is *not* an official source, so the question is, what do we do about it? Although it sounds extreme, perhaps a warning on the main page 'Pre-release character spoilers not from official sources will be removed'?, or maybe a lockdown altogether on those pages? Phylarion 15:35, January 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * To be quite honest, I'm staying away now! I'm following the lead of JakePT and Xaero Dumort, among others and taking a leave of absence to avoid spoilers. If I get emails that there's been a change to my talk page, I'll pop in and take a look, and if it's a vandalism thing I'll handle it, as that's not something that can be done by non-admins, but I've been in talks with the other admins, and Tullis and I are pretty much agreed that we're just going to have to rely on the editors (the good, responsible ones) to keep an eye on things for a week or two till we get a chance to do some playthroughs and get back to editing. SpartHawg948 21:14, January 22, 2010 (UTC)

Sidemenu
SSgt, Since mass effect two is right around the corner, I suggest you change the main page to have a mass effect logo and mass effect two logo on it for the perspective games. Also, the sidemenu needs an overhaul. First item on it should be mass effect and second item should be mass effect 2 and then spawn the menu out on each tab for the perspective games. If the menu isn't easy to read, they will go somewhere else and edit. Thanks for your time. U.S. Navy Petty Officer. Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦� � Leave Message� � 15:22, January 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Very good points, and very well delivered! After some of what I've seen around here lately, your civility is a breath of fresh air, Petty Officer! Unfortunately, you just so happen to have left this message on the talk page of the most computer/format incompetent/illiterate of the three admins, but I'll make some inquiries and see if we can't make something happen here! Thanks again! SpartHawg948 20:44, January 23, 2010 (UTC)

Pre Release information
I've recently noticed that some people have gotten Mass Effect 2 a few days before its release date. That said, there have been spoilers to the character logs that are in Mass Effect 2. Should these be removed until its release date or should it be left alone? BHB


 * Indeed there have been spoilers aplenty going up. The main problem is that the admins are people too, and want to play the game spoiler-free as well, so I don't know about you, but I don't want to go through all the articles that have been edited picking out spoilers before ever playing the game. If you want to remove the spoilers, you have my blessing, but I'm steering clear of ME2 related pages till I've had a chance to play the game. SpartHawg948 03:58, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Mass Effect 2 Page
I *seriously* think it should be locked down. The editing is rampant, and every so often an unregistered contributor comes along and leaves a swath of destruction in their wake with regards to rampant formatting. Considering the pre-release hype, I just think it's a better suggestion than tossing it to pit of feeding-frenzy over-fired fanboys/girls. Phylarion 22:10, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see your point, however, give me a little bit before I take any action. Locking that page down is something I'd rather not do unilaterally... I'll talk to some people, and will have a decision shortly. SpartHawg948 22:24, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, so new idea... I did inform another admin, but have pretty much made a spur of the moment decision to protect the page, allowing registered users to edit but not anon users, for the next 3 days. Since I'm taking this action unilaterally, I did tell Tullis that if she feels I'm being rash and rushing to judgment to undo the protection. SpartHawg948 22:31, January 24, 2010 (UTC)

Help in editing
Okay, I edited the ME1 Quasar Strategy page. All I did was to insert my text after a table. Upon completion, I saved it, and the table image was replaced with html code. The table below my insert was unaffected. On further edits to try to fix the problem, somehow the lower table got messed up as well, despite my not having touched it. I know basic HTML, and I know I didn't delete anything from the table above. I don't know why the table no longer shows up as a table in my browser, despite my having refreshed the page with the refresh button. Any ideas as to how to clean this up? I didn't want to wreck the page, but it looks wrecked and I can't seem to fix it.

Thanks :)

PS: Please tell me what I did wrong, so I know how to avoid it in the future. I would like to be a respectable editor.


 * I honestly don't know that stuff at all. As an admin I focus more on content than formatting. Someone you could ask though would be another of our admins, DRY. He is much better with this sort of stuff than I am. SpartHawg948 08:29, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, I'll try that person next. I haven't got the colors and formatting back yet, but I did get the table back up. I commented out the original table, and in the copy I made, I just took out a lot of the compressed formatting the original table used (so I could simply figure it out and get it back up).

Sovereign page
Um... if someone is visiting the page shouldn't the correct information be posted as classifying Sovereign as a Reaper and not just a flagship? The distinction should be made clear from the beginning of the article and not in the details. As for being a spoiler, the only reason a individual would visit the page is to gather story elements and get understanding about the topic. They are most likely LOOKING for spoilers, not avoiding them. Could someone explain to us why the article is written to hide the fact that Sovereign is a Reaper, only to reveal it a couple of lines down? Remember Sovereign was a Reaper a long time before it became Saren's Flagship.

74.136.218.252 21:04, January 25, 2010 (UTC)

What concludes the Romance
I dont want to go into mass effect 2 with a romance.

I ignored both romantic options pretty much through out, I should have killed Ashley on Virmire

But on the way to stop Saren, in comes Ashley looking for Sex. I turned her down and we didnt have sex.

Did the relationship still reach a positive conclusion? IE will I be going into mass effect 2 with her as my romantic partner?

Warp Ammo
I just fixed one or two grammar mistakes. Just a very minor edit.


 * Ummm... thanks? I never asked what you changed on the Warp Ammo page. If I had, you'd have known, as I always sign my posts (which brings me to my next point, sign your posts if you want to leave messages on my talk page, please). The user who asked what you changed was Obisean, as a quick look at the history of your talk page would reveal. SpartHawg948 11:23, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Merge Simak Cluster into Hourglass Nebula
Bioware changed the name of this cluster from Simak Cluster to Hourglass Nebula. Can we merge the two articles, please?Throwback 17:32, January 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, add a merge tag, and then we'll give it a week and see how the vote turns out. SpartHawg948 20:01, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

Blogs
Hey Sparthawg, I would to ask for your opinion on my blogs that I have posted on my page. Since your a senior member of this wiki I think your opinion would be most helpful.So, whenever you get the chance please look at one of my blogs and leave a comment(and anyone else that sees this and wants to leave a comment, feel free to do so). J Shepard 17:49, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Video Policy
Hello there.

I read your message about this wikias video policy, and I agree. On some of the points.

Of course you shouldn't put up walkthrough videos of whole missions and such.

But I really don't see why you shouldn't be allowed to upload videos in other cases.

I've for a long time (oh well, a couple of years) been capturing footage of different video

games and uploaded them to the internet. And to many different wikias. And then I've

recieved much positive feedback, from people who really finds the videos useful.

People have contacted me directly and thanked me, saying that they find videos

much easier to understand than just a wall of text. A video can give so much

more than just text. And those two combined is just a perfect match if you

ask me.

I'm not asking you to change your video policy, however I'm asking you - for your

permission to upload videos. I'm only uploading high quality videos which I spend

alot of time capturing and editing.

And by the way, thank you - and everyone else behind it - for this great Wikia.

Evilchicken1 22:42, January 28, 2010 (UTC)EvilChicken - EvilChicken MEDIA

RE: RE: Video Policy
Alright. Even tho I never use copyrighted material in my videos - I'll accept it.

Evilchicken1 02:13, January 29, 2010 (UTC)EvilChicken


 * Whatev. As I pointed out, while copyrighting is an issue, it's not the main issue. The fact that the videos violate the Shepard gender neutrality policy (especially videos depicting Shepard recruiting someone) was the main issue, as I made clear in my comments. SpartHawg948 22:29, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Normandy Crew Member Names
I understand you removing the names of those in doubt. That's fine. Why did you then remove the other fifteen names? This is the kind of crap that pisses me off. It's extreme and heavy handed. If our positions were reversed, I would have kept the 15 names where there's no question and made inquiries to the other members of this wiki to get the correct spellings. Or do it myself, if I had the time. Furthermore, I was listing the crew members who were killed - that is why Pressly is listed twice. It's a casualty list.Throwback 22:55, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's a casualty list in a section that is a list of crew members. That right there should rule it out. Add to that the fact that phrasing it as a casualty list in that particular section makes it a pretty big spoiler, now doesn't it? That's why Jenkins is listed as a former crewer, not deceased. Pressly didn't need to be listed twice, as it shouldn't be treated as a casualty list. Since it's in a section of known crewmembers, it should be treated as a furtherance of that list. As for the rest- are we sure there is "no question" of the spellings of the other crewmembers killed? I don't recall seeing their names appear in writing. If I missed something, please let me know, but if their names don't appear in writing than there are no crewmembers whose names are known beyond doubt. And please don't talk to me about being heavy-handed and extreme. If you want to see me being extreme and heavy handed, you have but to ask, and I'll deliver. As for crap that pisses you off, welcome to my world! The world where people want to take dates uttered in dialogue, dialogue which the writers of the game have stated is not to be taken as literal and encyclopedic on this matter, and use those dates to extrapolate finite start and stop points for events that weren't even described in the damn dialogue! The world where people want to take dialogue and argue against volumes of evidence that disproves them that Tokyo must be the capital of Earth! That's the kind of "crap" (although I had to restrain myself from saying something stronger) that pisses me off! So please, ask me to be extreme and heavy handed so I can show you what that really looks like. Right now I'm just being a good (albeit increasingly agitated) admin. SpartHawg948 23:07, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The names are from the game. They accompany each of the dog tags that the player picks up.Throwback 07:19, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok, well if the names are from the game, why are you unsure of some of the spellings? I know the names are from the game. I'm not an idiot. Read my post again. My question was "Do the names appear in writing", not do they appear in the game. And I also note that you failed to answer the other substantive points I made about Pressly's name repeating and the fact that posting a casualty list in that section of the article (as opposed to simply listing the crew members) is a ginormous spoiler. SpartHawg948 07:31, January 30, 2010 (UTC)::*Hmmm... at a loss for words, I see. It happens. I do tend to follow the "go big or go home" school of thought, and do like to bring overwhelming logic to bear. Still, if you are indeed at a loss for words, might I suggest 'garbled words'? Seems to have worked for you in the past when the logic was just a bit too much... :P SpartHawg948 22:30, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Grunt
Could you please unlock Grunt's page? I'd like to add some stuff about his loyalty mission. Alternatively, just paste this there (note - this is how the mission goes if Wrex survived Virmire. The mission is supposed to be very different if he didn't, but I can't acertain that right now): Ibeeis 04:01, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty Mission
EDI or Kelly alert Shepard that Grunt has become somewhat anixious, pacing down and forth in his room. Upon talking to him, Grunt reveal his emotinal state to Shepard, describing it similar to krogan blood frenzy and being confused about how to handle it. EDI suggests visiting Tuchanka and consulting the Clan Leader there. The Clan Leader explains that Grunt is simply undergoing puberty and must take part in the Rite of Passage to prove himself as a krogan and join a clan. Uvenk objects to allowing a tank-bred abomination undertake the Rite, but the Clan Shaman gives Grunt permission nonetheless. Shepard accompanies Grunt to the Rite as his Krantt.

The Rite itself is a gauntlet of waves of wild fauna, namely Varren, Kirch and a Thresher Maw boss. You must eradicate the Kirch and Varren waves, but for the Thresher Maw you need only survive for five minutes to complete the Rite. Killing him in that time earns you an achievement, respect among the krogan and a breeding request for Shepard from one of the fertile females, though.

Upon completing the rite, you will be confronted by Uvenk, who now seems impressed and accepting of the tank-bred Grunt. You have the options of talking him off or fighting him (or both if you have sufficent Renegade score).


 * How 'bout this- you remove those nasty redlinks from my talk page and I'll make the necessary changes and/or unlock the Grunt page. Sound fair? SpartHawg948 06:07, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * What redlinks? I don't see any redlinks. I'll put some detail on Uvenk's page once I get there on my second playthrough, this time with Wrex "away". Gotta see how that turns out. Ibeeis 07:46, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * ...sigh. If there's one thing I hate, it's people playing cutsie. What red links indeed. Perhaps I was referring to the redlinks that were there before you edited them out and left a faux-puzzled message. Please don't take that last bit personally, I'm also dealing with a user who is a chronic headache at the moment, and again, cutsie acts are not a way to get on my good side. Still, a deal's a deal. SpartHawg948 07:51, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I'll make sure to proofread next time. Ibeeis 19:05, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Normandy KIA
If she had a thirty-man crew, and there are at least 20 confirmed KIA, plus Shepard, one can hardly say that "most" of the crew made it away before she went down. Echo Four Delta 05:45, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * But she does seem to have more than a thirty man crew, does she not? We know there were 20 KIA, plus at least eight more named individuals who made it off, plus quite a few other npcs (there appeared to be at least 8 people to an escape pod, with several pods being launched), it'd come out to more than thirty. Much more. My guess is that the thirty-man crew figure is from direct visual observation, not an official source. And regardless, I didn't edit the page to say most of the crew got away, did I? All I did was change it from saying "most of the crew" was killed, which is debatable, to numerous crewmembers were killed, which is 100% accurate. SpartHawg948 06:04, January 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Damn, airtight logic - my least favorite kind. I was going by the crew listing higher up the page. Very well. Echo Four Delta 06:14, January 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just removed that from the page, as I'm pretty sure that number was extrapolated (ie someone ran around the ship counting people) as opposed to coming from something like the Codex. I did make sure to add that I may have missed something and if that is the case to undo my edit and lemme know about my ignorance, so we'll see... SpartHawg948 06:17, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Just confirmed it on my second playthrough. Ask Jacob about the Normandy crew when you first meet him and he says "Just about everybody survived. A few servicemen from the lower decks didn't get out." I don't think he'd say "just about everybody" made it out alive, with "just a few" killed if the 20-odd KIAs were a significant portion of the crew. SpartHawg948 00:27, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Must be an error or oversight from biowares part. Even if there are 100 crewmen on the Normandy, 20 people hardly count as "a few servicemen from the lower decks". Also, by count, there are around 30-50 crewmembers on the Normandy in the first game, and there would hardly fit more than 100 if they somehow added 50 marines to the ship before the scene is taking place. Spoo12 00:38, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, given that the Normandy is a warship, it'd be logical to assume 2 to 3 times the number of crewers that are seen at the various stations, as warships are manned 24/7 (usually by either three full shifts or two full shifts and one partial shift), as it's impossible for one crew to be on station at all times. People do have to sleep, after all. As for whether or not they'd fit, they sure would! The navies of the world have been dealing with this for quite some time now. It's called Hot racking (well, that's what wikipedia calls it, generally the US military calls it "hot bunking"). Common sense and universal standard military practices suggest a crew much larger than 30-50, and the dialogue from the game fully supports this, and does not support the 30 man crew claim. As for the semantics, 20% of the crew may not seem like "a few", but 80% of the crew does seem like "just about everybody", doesn't it? And when you're talking about a ship going down (whether in the ocean, or in space) any survivors are more than is expected, which may explain why 20% casualties are brushed off as "a few servicemen from the lower decks". SpartHawg948 01:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Assignments Page
Would it be possible to create a new Assignment Page for ME2?Elamdri 03:16, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see no reason why the wikia programming would make it impossible to create a new page to be used to list ME2 assignments. However, I doubt that what you meant when you asked if it would be possibly is would it be technically possible. Assuming you meant would it be ok per site policy to do so, again, I see no reason why it wouldn't be. After all, if it were impossible, none of the new ME2 pages that were created recently would be here. Now, if you mean will I do it myself, the answer is no. I will do nothing of the sort. I would not, however, have any problems with someone else creating one. SpartHawg948 03:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's what I meant. I mean, the current assignment page has no ME2 assignments and there is just a tiny ME2 heading at the very bottom like it's an afterthought. However, I didn't want to start screwing with it because it is a part of the old ME1 format without some permission.Elamdri 03:21, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Do please try to keep the two as separated as possible, so that it remains clear which is which. If you are planning any major overhaul, do please discuss your ideas first on the relevant Talk page. We'd like to keep the ME1 material as self-contained as possible. --DRY 03:54, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well take a look at what I did and see if that meets your criteria. There doesn't seem to be a lot of concensus yet about how to transition this from a Mass Effect 1 wiki to a Mass Effect 1&2 wiki, so I tried to follow what I've seen on a lot of the other articles.Elamdri 03:59, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * We're taking a "wait and see" approach (per User talk:Tullis), so there's no real right or wrong. We just ask that there's no wholesale rewriting or movement of pages without discussion, since that may cause headaches for maintaining the consistency of the ME1 material. Thanks very much for your contributions! --DRY 04:44, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Re: Moving pages
I apologize for my action, I was unaware that discussion is required first (it wasn't on Wikipedia, stuck in habits from my time there). I'll keep this in mind for the future. Also, I regret to say that I only remembered the rule about ranks in the titles after I had done the move. Again, sorry about that, I should have remembered sooner. Thanks for the heads-up. -- Commdor (Talk) 03:20, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

General Tips Section
Where would be an appropriate place to put a general tips section for Mass Effect 2? Elamdri 03:47, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'd say the forums. That's really not something suited for the encyclopedic side of the site. SpartHawg948 04:08, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

RE:Moving Pages
I dont want it to end to that! - LordDeathRay

Picture removal
Please do not remove the picture of Kelly being processed in Kelly's page. There is no reason for it.

Thank you

-Shadowdragon00000


 * Really? It was an accident, I didn't realize it was coming out when I reverted the edits to the romance section. And actually, the case could very easily be made that the article is entirely too short to justify two images. We do have our standards, after all. See? If you'd been polite, I would have acknowledged my mistake and left it at that. But your boorish behavior has now got me examining your statement for flaws. A modicum of civility goes a long way around here. A long way. And next time, maybe sign your post properly? SpartHawg948 10:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

First off, I did ask you nicely. If I come off as boorish by saying "Please..." and "Thank you", then you seriously need to consider lightening up a bit. Second off, my signature is my own. As such, there's no right or wrong way to sign. Just because you prefer to sign your post the way you do, that does not mean that I need to. But just for the sake of humoring you... Shadowdragon00000 10:25, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * No, nice is not "Please do not remove the picture of Kelly being processed in Kelly's page. There is no reason for it." The "There is no reason for it" implies I did it intentionally. Asking nicely would be something along the lines of "I'm not sure if it was intentional, but you removed the image of Kelly being processed from the Kelly Chambers page. Your edits there and on the Romance page suggest you only meant to remove the romance bit, but you may have accidentally removed the picture as well." That's the polite way to do it. Give the person the benefit of the doubt the first time. It works for me about 99% of the time I do it. And there is a right way and a wrong way to sign on a wiki. The signature (ie the 4 tildes) clearly shows who made the edit. I could type anything I wanted at the end of the post. I could "sign" this post "Mary, Queen of Scots", but since that isn't my username, it'd be damn dishonest of me. All I'm asking is for you to show me the courtesy of properly signing a post on my talk page. Look at the top of the talk page when you make an edit. It says "This is a talk page. Please remember to sign your posts using four tildes or by using ths signature button". It doesn't say anything about "do whatever you want to do to sign". SpartHawg948 10:41, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Frankly, I'm passed the point about caring about how you interpret what's polite or not. As it stands, you're the one that's acting boorish and rude. Second off, there's a history button. It doesn't take a rocket scientist ( or in your case, a Staff Sergent ) to figure out how to use it.

Thank you

Shadowdragon00000 10:44, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * It doesn't take a Staff Sergeant or a rocket scientist to use the history button, but it does take longer than it woudl to just look at the end of the post and see it right there. SpartHawg948 10:48, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Just a minor thing
Hey there, I'm just a random wiki contributor and I noticed that your mediawiki:sitenotice is currently displaying "Mass Effect 2 is released today!". Unless I am mistaken, I believe that Mass Effect 2 is currently released in all areas of the world. I would suggest that the site notice be modified to something more updated, such as "Mass Effect has now been released!" or something along those lines. Again, if I am mistaken then my apologies. Blade bane

Starting off on the wrong foot
I just wanted to take the time and apologize as coming off as a prick earlier by getting into an edit war with you. It's fairly easy for me to act like a twat when I feel as if I'm being disrespected. I'm fairly easy to work with, so long as I'm not sporting my dukes. Shadowdragon00000 12:24, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Whatev... water under the bridge. I'm generally inclined to give people second chances, especially if they are courteous enough to apologize like you did. For my part, if I can across as combative or said anything untoward, I also apologize. I just tend to take speculation very seriously, as many users around here can tell you, and can be a bit zealous in my desire to keep this wiki both good-looking and factually accurate/consistent with sources. But hey, it's resolved now, so as far as I'm concerned, we are good to go! SpartHawg948 12:28, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Article had a wrong name
I copy-pasted the contents from Widow (sniper rifle) to X98-e Widow Anti-Material Rifle and the edited it. I'm still new to this wiki, so I don't know if it's OK to just delete stuff... Should I?
 * I don't think you can delete articles. Pretty sure that's an admin-only function. However, seeing as I was just getting ready to delete the Widow (sniper rifle) page anyways, we should be good to go. SpartHawg948 05:12, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Doctor Chakwas as an Ally
Hi i'm new to this so I didn't know if I needed permission or not sorry. I added Doctor Chakwas as an ally for Mass Effect 2 because she plays an important part as a doctor on your ship. I also give her credit for being with Shephard since the first game. I think if Kelly is on there then Chakwas should also be on there. I hope you let her stay, thank you for your time.
 * I'd have to say no. She isn't vital to the plot, and all she does is stay in the Med Bay and do nothing, same as in the first game. Sure she gives one optional quest, but that's it. If you feel Doc Chakwas is an ally, then Mess Sergeant Gardner and the two engineers (I forget their names) must also be allies. Chambers, on the other hand, is a romance option, which certainly elevates her above Chakwas, and you interact with her much more than you do with the good Doctor. So if someone else hasn't already done it, I'm afraid I'll have to remove Chakwas as an ally. SpartHawg948 08:31, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Eh aw well I tried, her voice just made me want to add her there lol. Thank you for giving the reason before deleting it, I do see your point and it is nice to tell me instead of just deleting with no explained reason. I wanted to say that she should be there because she was the only important survivor if you wait to rescue them from the collectors but I think she can die right after :/.

Linking policy
First of all, sorry if I have given you unnecessay work and thanks for letting me know of these policies I had missed. 1) Though I have read the Style Guide, I have not noticed that you required limiting links in an article. Usually, my own policy regarding editing hypertext pages is exactly the opposite: "the more links you give to the user, the richer the experience is". As I might not be the only one adhering to such a policy, if you want the opposite, you might want to make that clear in the Style Guide, or make it more obvious if it is just that I missed it.

Now that I am aware of it, I will obviously stick to it. Though, I would be interested in knowing the rationale behind, if you have time to explain. 2) Sorry that I had missed the sentence recommanding to avoid aliases in the Redirect section of the Style Guide. Even though I do not understand the reasons for this policy (I personnaly find aliases quite useful), I will do my best to follow it. And again, If you care to explain, I would be very interested in understanding your reasons.

There is at least one case where I strongly disagree on the opportunity of removing my alias

- I had written "triggering the Salarian Family Data assignment", with an alias specifically designed to improve readability of the article, by simplifying the assignment name for a clearer text flow

- you removed that alias, which made it "triggering the Illium: The Assassin: Salarian Family Data assignment", making the article harder to read in my opinion. Don't you agree my version was more readable? 3) Finally, just a small suggestion: it might be better that you avoid editing immediately, for technical reasons, an article somebody has just posted. I was still in the process of improving my first post when you edited the Illium: The Assassin: Salarian Family Data and it gave me some quite unnecessary work to understand the nature of your technical changes and avoid crushing them by posting my second, improved version. At least with me, it would have been sufficient to notify me of my mistakes and I would have tried to fix them by myself :).

--Celorilm 08:49, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * As to your point #1, yeah, you are pretty much the only one adhering to a link as much as possible policy. I've never had an issue with the same thing being linked 19 times in an article till tonight. Sometimes people will link 3 or 4 times, but never in the bouble digits.
 * Point #2- The reason for unnecessary aliases is just that- they are time consuming and unnecessary! Why type Commander Shepard|Shepard when typing Shepard accomplishes the exact same thing and looks just the same in the article. As for the subpoint about the alias for the assignment link, your version may have read a little easier, but we try not to use aliases when listing assignments and such. If you look at the other articles on this site, you'll see that when assignments are linked, we pretty much always use the full title.
 * Point #3- I'm an admin. It's my job to improve articles. I had no idea you were working on another version of the article. I can't just assume that maybe you'll fix it on your own and leave it looking like it did. Sometimes someone else changes an article while you are also editing it. Happens to me all the time. It's just the nature of the beast. Hope this answered any questions you had! Thanks, SpartHawg948 08:58, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Just a few more questions / remarks, so that we can productively work together :).

1) I might be the first one you encounter, but I doubt to be the only one. It would be safer to make your policy clear in the Style Guide, a non-written policy is no policy at all :).

Maybe it is coming from my "old school" hypertext user tendancies, having started using the web about 20 years ago... Though, I only recently started wiki contributions.

Also, may I ask your reasons for this policy? Why were these links so annoying to you? The reasons for my policy are quite clear: links are what make the usefulness of hypertext compared to normal text, the more you have, the more useful is your page (I admit though, that, sometimes, for readability reasons, you might want to limit the number of links per sentence or paragraph).

2) Time consuming from which point of view? For instance, for me it is quicker to type Liara T'Soni|Liara, than to check, for every link I want to include, if a redirect exists. I had not yet discovered the link-autofill capability of the editor though, which could help me, even though it is sometimes a bit slow. So, from a writer's point of view, I am not so sure what is more time consuming...

3) I understand that you consider it your job to fix such mistakes. Though I do not think any of my mistakes (except maybe a misspelt link I already was in the process of fixing), overlooking policies which were not very clearly stated in the Style Guide, was requiring such an immediate action that you had to edit an article I had posted just a few minutes before. To the point that it made it more difficult for me to finish my work.

I am just proposing that before doing the work by yourself, you:

- first, notify me, or the author in general, of the problem,

- then, if he has not taken any corrective actions a few hours later (you can then assume safely, he is away and missed, or worse ignored, your notification), fix it yourself.

I know concurrent editing can happen and I am not really annoyed this happened. I am just proposing a policy, relying on collaborative work, that would avoid unnecessary work on both sides, by just waiting a few hours after a change has been implemented to fix it (especially if the problem consists in minor technical errors or overlooking of an unclear style rule), if you deem necessary, depending obviously on the seriousness of the problem...

Let me remind you that we are all volunteering to create/improve contributions to this very useful wiki and most of us (at least that includes me) are trying to do it their best, including when it comes to enforce the policies we know of :).

Thanks for your time. Celorilm 10:57, February 2, 2010 (UTC)


 * I responded to the main body of this on your talk page, but I do want to re-iterate something here that seems to have become an issue lately.
 * Sorry if it sounded wrong, but my last remark was not intending what you understood (maybe a side effect of not speaking my native language, French), I was just reacting to the fact that I felt you had overlooked quite quickly the policy I proposed, which I still think is a good way to save work to everyone, in a collaborative way.


 * Be assured that I perfectly understand that wikis cannot easily take into account authoring rights and that, once I have posted it, an article becomes the community property.


 * The goal of the policy I proposed was not at all to change that, but rather to avoid unnecessary concurrent editing, as well as saving work to the administrator. But it is obviously your call ultimately :).


 * Thanks for your time. Celorilm 13:21, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Quick Policy Reminder
(Quick note- while this is attached to a thread concerning one particular individual, this advice is not directed at anyone specific, this is intended for everyone to read and heed) Starting or contributing heavily to an article (as in an actual article, not the forum or your user page) DOES NOT CONVEY OWNERSHIP OF THAT ARTICLE TO YOU. One more time, people! (Hey, I've already had to repeat this several times the past couple of months, what's one more?) STARTING AN ARTICLE DOES NOT GIVE YOU OWNERSHIP OF SAID ARTICLE. There is no such thing as "my article" or "your article". A wiki is a community site. It is the communities article. At no time is an editor obligated to notify anybody else or seek any sort of permission before editing an article. Nor is it necessary to wait "a few hours" before fixing a mistake you see, on the off chance the person who made it is currently working to fix it. As an admin, I peruse just about every change made to this site every day. I don't really have time to sit and wait and hope. I always encourage editors to fix any problems they see RIGHT AWAY!!! I don't foresee ever changing this advice, either. So if you want authorial control, post whatever you want on your user page, or over on the Mass Effect Fan Fiction Wiki. This isn't the place for it. SpartHawg948 12:07, February 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * FWIW, I would suggest that however that major changes be discussed on the relevant talk page before being carried out. Taking the time to build consensus for big changes will probably pay off in avoided reverts.  That being said, that is by no means an official policy of any kind: it is simply a courtesy to the community.  --DRY 17:19, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Neat paragraph breaks
Hi.

I'm new to contributing to Wikis. I've started teaching myself by adding and editing articles here on the site. One thing I can't figure out is how to create a single-line break between paragraphs. I either manage to get the neat single-line break by total accident, or get the jarring double-line break intentionally. Can you help?
 * Use shift-enter in the WYSIWYG-editor, or click on Source and edit the article there, where it doesn't automatically create paragraphs. (Sorry for disturbing your talk page, SpartHawg :) ) Spoo12 14:58, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Quotes Page?
I recently entered a piece of information into an article's trivia section regarding a series of conversations between two NPCs, only to have the piece removed a small while later. While I agree that it probably wasn't the best place to put the information, there seems to be no other place to put such. Throughout both ME and ME2, many of the franchise's most memorable (and most humorous!) moments are found in the conversations the player overhears throughout the game, on the Citadel, Omega, Illium, and many other locations. The game creators put that much more effort into making the game more realistic, and I believe that they should get their due. Coming to my main point: should a quotes page be created for the games? I'd have already started one, but I am relatively new, and wanted advice before making any move.Tantalus91 14:07, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Feel free to start a quotes page in the Forums, but we've been trying to keep quotes pages out of the encyclopedic side of the wiki. SpartHawg948 20:09, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Stub tags
Sorry I misplaced some tags, but I do not think it was entirely my fault: before creating or editing stubs, I first read the article defining them (the one pointed in the warning generated by the tag), and it specifically states that the tags should be added "to the end of the article"...

Maybe should you consider updating that page, if your current policy is actually the opposite way :).


 * Yeah, that's the problem with using standard wiki templates. The default wiki article says to put the tag at the end, but about 5 seconds worth of research (ie looking at how other stub articles are formatted) will reveal that the tag goes at the top of the article. SpartHawg948 08:47, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

I usually feel safer, regarding policies, to stick to what is written than to common usage, but now I know about this one :) Celorilm 09:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

ME1 and ME2
I have started a forum thread on this. Please provide your imput. I think it looks much better having it separate. Forum:ME1_and_ME2  Polexian ♦♦Talk♦♦Message♠♠ 11:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hey man sorry if I did anything wrong I just figured if I did it would be edited...

Anyway as far as I can see it's a soild connection BioWare is known for making subtle pop culture refences anywho yeah thats all I wanted to add...
 * Not gonna lie. I had no idea that you'd even made the edit till you left this message and I looked. But now that I did, I know BioWare makes some subtle pop culture references, but this one is a real stretch, based on a one-off line from an animated series, and we've learned in the past (thanks to a contributor who is a former BioWare writer who wrote for ME and ME2) that if it seems like this much of a stretch, it probably is. That and the spelling, grammar, and formatting issues... SpartHawg948 12:26, February 4, 2010 (UTC)

Changing main pictures in character profiles
Hey can I change Doctor Chakwas's main picture to a picture of her from Mass Effect 2? Do you have to ask to do stuff like that?


 * You don't need to ask for edits like that, we'd just like people to ask (on the talk pages, ask the community, not just specific users) before making big changes. Image swaps don't really qualify as that big. As for why I undid your edit changing the picture of the Doctor, like I said in the edit summary, the lighting of the picture wasn't great, and I'd really prefer a picture where you can see her entire face, not just see her in profile. SpartHawg948 07:06, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Trivia sections
I've of course been revisiting a lot pages religiously lately, and I just want to say the trivia sections are getting ridiculous. Most are just outlets for speculation, where people add whatever similarities that pop in their head. Not to mention that I've seen a lot of pages where the trivia sections are longer than the articles themselves. I suggest that unless you can prove that whatever similarity you've drawn between Mass Effect and something else, or unless it can be proved that it's a widely accepted idea, it shouldn't be added. You've said yourself many times, this wiki is about facts not speculation.

That said, I have another proposal. A lot of the trivia in the article comes from character history that doesn't happen in the games or books. Therefore it's added in to trivia, even though it's sometimes a big part of the character's personality or motives. The page layout really needs to be rethought. It should be similar to Nihlus' page, in that we give the history in chronological order. Obviously it would have to be different with main characters, but it would look something like this.

-Summary paragraph

then

-Early history

-Mass Effect 1 (If applicable)

-Mass Effect 2 (If applicable)

-Romance (If applicable)

-Trivia

And of course the books would need to be added in their time slots.

This is a much cleaner layout and will make it easier to find information about Zaeed's history rather than having to dig through his massive trivia section. Of course, since I'm not an admin the admins to OK it and of course revise it where need be. Just wanted to run this by you though Spart.

-Proconix 00:26, February 5, 2010 (UTC)Proconix

Here's an example of my proposed layout. Forgot to add the early history subheading under dossier.

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Jes-Wolf/PageExample/nihlus_page_example.bmp

-Proconix 00:58, February 5, 2010 (UTC)Proconix


 * I'm going to need some examples. Vagaries don't really work. Please provide examples of articles with trivia that "comes from character history that doesn't happen in the games or books". I can only think of a couple of tidbits of trivia that fit that description. Now, as for my stance on trivia and speculation, please don't tell me what I've said myself many times, or if you must quote me to myself get it right. I say that speculation doesn't fly for the main body of the article, but have said many times that there is much more leeway for trivia sections. I peruse the trivia sections regularly, and the vast majority of the trivia is acceptable. If we accept your standard "unless you can prove that whatever similarity you've drawn between Mass Effect and something else, or unless it can be proved that it's a widely accepted idea, it shouldn't be added.", the vast majority of the trivia would be removed, as most of it is observational and anecdotal, and I see no need for this.


 * I've seen no evidence of articles where you have to pore through the trivia sections for important pieces of historical information, and seeing as we just did a major overhaul of character pages, I see no need for this one which doesn't really change anything. Your outline was pretty much a verbatim copy of the general template we use for character pages right now. SpartHawg948 04:39, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

An excellent example would be Zaeed. All of his history that he tells you of is in his trivia section. His rifle Jessie, his run-in with the Blood pack leader, and his first suicide mission are important parts of his history and should be included in his "dossier." And please, don't think I'm just trying to impress my ideas upon you. I just find the trivia sections to be ridiculously long. But that's just me, and you by no means have to take my proposal seriously. It's a minor qualm of mine and isn't really affecting the state of the wiki.

As for my other proposal, you are correct in that my recommendation is based off most pages' general guidelines. I just think we should undergo the task of standardizing it. From what I've seen it's just a general template. I've seen a lot of pages where we don't use that guideline, and it may be simply because I wasn't aware of the character overhaul and there are pages that have yet to be overhauled, such as Zaeed. Can you clear this up for me?

And thanks for taking the time to respond to my message. :)

-Proconix 20:19, February 5, 2010 (UTC)Proconix


 * Can I clear what up for you? Again, if you can provide pages that don't use the guidelines described above, it'd really help. I was hoping my comment about how I needed specifics, vagaries not cutting it, would have impressed on you that anytime you make statements like "I've seen a lot of pages where we don't use that guideline" I need examples! I can tell you right off the bat that Zaeed won't fit that bill, as his only appearance is in ME2 and he isn't romancable, so there go two of the categories you proposed (and I frankly don't really see a need for a romance section for each applicable character). If you feel that the trivia info for Zaeed (and Legion, this applies to you too Matt 2108) could better be placed into the article itself, why are you talking to me about it? Just do it! As for the character overhaul I mentioned, I'm sure you must have noticed something. We did add an entirely new section to each squad memeber's page, after all (Talents/Powers). This may have happened shortly before Zaeed and Legion were confirmed, which is how they fell through the cracks. So again, if you feel something in the trivia section better belongs in the character's history section, fix it! You don't need to seek my approval for everything. We just ask that you inform the community before making big changes to articles rather than just doing it. Moving info from one place in an article to another hardly qualifies. SpartHawg948 22:32, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

There's no need to be so snappy man. I'm just trying to help out the wiki. If you don't like my suggestion, just tell me you don't want to use it. I don't have any problem with that as you're the one in charge. And adressing your claim about "vagaries" I apologize for leading you to believe it was about the layout proposal. I assumed you were talking about the trivia section when you asked for examples.

About "clearing this up" I just wanted to know if there's a set layout for all pages. I have yet to find one, and I've seen pages that don't use the "general template" or use variations of it. I would be happy to change them (and no I don't feel like getting examples.) if you would give me the absolute layout for character pages.

And as for not just moving it myself, it's been my personal experience with wikis that admins generally don't like you making big changes to sections and info from one to another. Admins usually want you to ask, despite wikis being 'a place where anyone can edit." However, I am not real familiar with this wiki yet and you guys obviously don't mind, so I apologize for not knowing.

But please, don't be so snappy with me. When I was an active admin on the J&D wiki I never felt the need to go off on someone, no matter what they were doing. Calm dipomacy works much better than agressive negotiations in my experience.

-Proconix 16:12, February 6, 2010 (UTC)Proconix
 * Sorry, I HATE repeating myself (I figure if I show the courtesy to respond to someone they can show me the courtesy of listening, so when I told you that statements such as "I've seen a lot of pages that..." was vague and I needed examples (which, btw, you acknowledged in the first part of your reply) I was understandably frustrated when you went ahead and said the same... *darn*... thing again! "I've seen a lot of pages where we don't use that guideline"! So frustrating! All I could think was 'Like I just got done saying, I need examples, not vague statements that these pages exist! If you've seen a lot of pages like this, why can't you just name two? Or three?' It would have saved so much time! And btw, this is not me being aggressive. Not by any stretch of the imagination. This is me being frustrated because it feels like I'm just banging my head against a brick wall (which should show you how much I love having to repeat myself... it's even better when it's in text format, removing any possibility the other person may simply have not heard you). SpartHawg948 22:03, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Legion's trivia section is in a similar state. People are just adding everything from the conversations you can have with it. Matt 2108 20:24, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

How to handle video posted by others
A quick question, before I try to continue my work of filling / cleaning the detailed mission pages for ME2 I had created yesterday.

I understand that the video policy, mainly based upon a gender neutrality concern, prohibits the inclusion of missions video guide.

Would it be correct though to give, as a note, a link to such a video as a possible illustration of a specific matter?

Other question: If I find again video footage embedded into mission pages, is that correct to remove it from the page?


 * In answer to your questions (although a little out of order): Yes, if you see video embedded into mission pages, or any page for that matter, it's best to remove it. As for your other question, if I understand you correctly, you're asking would it be acceptable to provide a link to the video. If this isn't what you are asking, I apologize, but the answer is yes. It is perfectly acceptable to provide a link to the video on YouTube or whatever other site it may be on, either as a link cited in the article itself, or at the end of the article in a references section. SpartHawg948 09:42, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Having some red links to inform users of some information being missing will incourage them to persue adding content maybe, just saying.
 * Fair enough. We do have a policy of keeping redlinks to a bare minimum though, bare minimum being 0. Not having redlinks encourages (encourage with an "e", not an "i") users to A) Make sure articles exist before they link to them, and B) If they don't already exist and they want to link to them, to create the articles themselves. Basically, we'd like the person actually doing the linking to add the content they want to link to. Why expect someone else to do the work for you? I for one don't like to propagate laziness! :) SpartHawg948 10:01, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the answer and confirmation I got it right regarding links.

Another question: once I have cleaned-up substantially an article marked for cleanup, can I remove the cleanup marker by myself? Celorilm 14:21, February 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure! Just know that if someone else feels it still needs cleaning, they may re-add it, but yeah, if you've cleaned it up, by all means remove the tag! SpartHawg948 21:53, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

about me laying out tubes on site.
Sorry to see you not like using tubes(video guides) what confuse me is that i finish the game 3 times allready and still there are acticle with no info...

so yes well after i playd the game for 2nd time i thinking well maybe i gonna make them since i finish them several time.

Problem was there gone 2 weeks and still no info...

Why you say you not want video in the article is strange for me...i found other tubes(actually helpfull) so the polecy about not having videos in the acticle(same time you have the tools to make it on the site) sound strange for me..

I see no reason why not using videos,(actually sometimes its easiert to get your point in a tube than read 2 sites with info,instead of watch a 10 min tube is sometimes easier.

this i think most vievers agree on,so why this policy? And yes i guess i will post the rest of the asignments on a more updated site..

funny is that my assignments have more info that this guide has on them...but i will not spend more time on this...

about gender..i think mos vievers can see the diffrent about using a man / woman as profile.(in a tube you see me using a female profile) on a text site i understand.

Also i playd the game sevral times and i would mark it in tube if there was a change with gender(diffrent solutions) so far i have to say this game does not have big diffrent resault using male or female(only the romantic part)

some of my point is ..site is so detailed on smal info,but totaly miss guides how get pagaon /renegade points.. so i guess i try think this would help alot of users..

(i have good experiance making a total guide on fallout 3-(180) tubes-

The saboteur(55) tubes,but i see no point of me use time to try help this site by people deleting the video becourse its a policy...well commond was there was NO info on the site...

but i guess a empty site is better than a site with a tube show the info you need.

for me writing text is hard i partly wordblind and english is my second language so i spell alot wrong.but you should consider your poleicy,becourse a guoie with text info same time you got a tube beside is the best solution for people like read text OR watch same info on atube(sometimes easier for people that not read english perfect(undertsand everything) well a video is same if you norvegian ,english or from uganda. So why this policy is very starnge for me,specially since i found some other tubes on the assignments,but i guess you will remove them also,(with i think is bad(actually those tubes was most info i got from this site..

I guess most vievers want info on the game when they play it..Not a lexica wich contains alot info (that have noting to do with the info you want or need.)

Dont missunderstand me.the site is good but i feel 1part is i even nee3ded upgrade the assignments on this guide (mixing mass effect 1 or 2) should be fixed.

aloww videos as a supliment should be alowed.at least till its a site with text that cover the video ..(so far its missing alot)

I added the Mission about Liara The Obsever.what was strange for me that this was a mission and still no info on the site 2 weeks after game is released.

then we talk mission and not details..Still i have no clue about the mission Illium: Giana Parasini ? is this a assignment? i never found it? Still there is NO info?

I guess with maybe this part would be more updated IF users had the opertunety to add acticles without having study your polecy or super strict guide lines.

I understand the policy about have a clean vlaer site and a mission that is well written,still i see no need to delete a tube from a site with NO info

at least this tube give the user some info til the text is there!!!

Funny is that I see all acticle i added has been made now..after i started them wrwritten but i see they added the paragon/renegade pointswhy not this before i added them? is it becourse the writer used my tube to see the best resault if ? just try tell maybe the info in this site would be more updated IF your policy was more updated.

I hoep in future the tubes will be beside the text info you want,and not only some lexica text( i feel sometimes people writing this text are more consern about how its writen,that they sometimes miss the main essent to give the info needed (like they tell about what smal types of drones that meet you notorius tell comando shepard ,so on.but you find no info about best result of dialogs (i found nothing till i started adding them on the site) AND still there is alot assignments OPEN WITH NO INFO..Maybe reason is NOONE want take the task becourse you need be a writer to post here with to many rules and to strict policy! instead of share the info they hold it back becourse they se you needd use 1hour to set themself into all your rules and hard policy. policy about not adding tubes a re just laim if you ask me.(asa sub) text first and tube below...THEN YOU HAVE A GOOD SITE!

If there is licence problems with licence from game (owner) the company that make the game.well its not a trailer(show no comercial) mean you can still add tubes skip the intro then is pure info (info i use in my tubes are directed by me,the picture i use is made by me..and i distribute NO material that will effect there sale on the game..

This is pure info for users of the game,as you now there is several way to play a game so yes there should be rules about type of tube(exaple no advertising) just pure info for the mission/ assignment that the tube(movie cover) ( you would se i cut all my intro on tubes i made its just pure info about how get max out of the dialoge and same time show everything that involve the mission i cover in the tube.) i talk on my tubes so there would be no copy of music or sound licence. So i dont see the point of you beeing afraide as long as the rules for the tubes are strict and follow the terms.

but i guess good thing i dont need spend more time try add in the missing links on this site, but its sad for the users that there is still info about the mission they came to look for on this site..and still if you now about Illium: Giana Parasini ? is this a assignment? found no info and just get fustrated having a assignment i find no info about.and not found after playing the game 3 times...?

So i guess from now on i see the info i need from youtube, then i guess i can read what i want on this site maybe in 2 -3 months..(then most gamers finsih this game i allredy on my 4 round,and i guess i will not play this game 8 weeks from now..

but i think for the sites respond it would be alot beteer respond with letting people add tubes!!

thats my oppinion,but thats it from me,i guess its time to play ME 2. stop tubing and just play the game..

but would be nice to now when a update on Assigment Illium: Giana Parasini or is this a dead link(wrong)


 * If I have correctly understood, the main issue with videos is that they do not easily allow to describe the story in a neutral way (regarding your choices that could affect the story, such as character gender), which is one of the quality standards of this wiki. That is what explains that your videos were unwanted in these mission pages. Though we coud have external links to the videos, for those who want to check on a "live example", knowing the drawbacks.


 * Regarding the Illium: Giana Parasini it is an actual assignment, though it might only be available to imported characters depending on their previous choices in ME1 on Noveria (just guessing a reason why you would not be able to get it). If nobody fills it before, I will try to do so during the next days Celorilm 14:17, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

Manual of Style
I'm gathering opinions on a tidy up over at User talk:Tullis. Your input would be most welcome. --DRY 18:17, February 6, 2010 (UTC)