Talk:Timeline

Timeline-worthy?
I have to wonder about whether some of the new additions to the timeline really belong here. The ones I'm looking at in particular are the ones concerning Cerberus' forays into the media. Do we really need to know that "Cerberus infiltrates several human media corporations, including the Constant Times, the Scott Examiner, and the Galactic Broadcasting Organization." or "The Cerberus-owned Scott Examiner news media company destroys the credibility of Vera Safin, up until then the front-runner for the office of Prime Minister of the Systems Alliance."? Or "Cerberus' Project Doorway enables the forgery of medicards and identitags standard throughout Citadel space, allowing Cerberus operatives unrestricted movement."? I mean, we see in ME2 that it apparently isn't a huge deal for Cerberus to move around in Citadel space. The Normandy SR2, a known Cerberus vessel with Cerberus markings, is allowed complete freedom of movement. I'm just not sure some of the new additions fit the notability standard here. SpartHawg948 03:04, September 10, 2010 (UTC)


 * My justification is that Cerberus' activities have ramifications on a galactic level, and are thus notable. Several of their acts of sabotage have secretly affected history. Although that was a busy day when I added this all. Would you rather all of the Cerberus dossier timeline events be removed, or are there any you think have merit? -- Commdor (Talk) 03:11, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Lemme go back and take a look. If their activities 'secretly affecting history' have any discernible ramifications in-game, they might have merit. But, at least in the ones cited above, I can't see any impact in-game. SpartHawg948 03:14, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict x2) Yeah I'd have to say some of that doesn't belong here either. Most of that Cerberus stuff should proabably stay in the Dossiers, and maybe some of it could go onto the Cerberus page, but not a lot of it. Also I thought the timeline was for major events, not to list every detail that can be easily read, or put elsewhere. The only piece of Cerberus info I can see is the publishing of the manifesto. I'd have to say, given events in the universe, that was a significant event. The rest can be easily covered/read elsewhere. Lancer1289 03:15, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

The following are the ones I don't think have any merit, as they have no impact, and concern people, places, events, etc mentioned nowhere else other than the dossier:


 * Cerberus infiltrates several human media corporations, including the Constant Times, the Scott Examiner, and the Galactic Broadcasting Organization.
 * Cerberus' Project Doorway enables the forgery of medicards and identitags standard throughout Citadel space, allowing Cerberus operatives unrestricted movement.
 * The Cerberus-owned Scott Examiner news media company destroys the credibility of Vera Safin, up until then the front-runner for the office of Prime Minister of the Systems Alliance.
 * Cerberus' Project Trapdoor develops the biotic-suppressing drug omega-enkaphalin, and begins experimenting on asari captives.
 * Asari matriarch Tilia Eraza is targeted with the drug omega-enkaphalin by Cerberus, causing her biotic powers to diminish. Her claims that biotics are superior to non-biotics are subsequently deflated, and the matriarch fades into the political background.
 * Cerberus operatives sabotage the MSV Anixara, a ship carrying the turian war hawk politician Raherix Ursivus. The ship breaks apart during FTL, killing everyone aboard. The incident is publicly attributed to faulty engineering.

I can't really see a reason to include these. SpartHawg948 03:19, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * After looking through them myself, I'd have to agree. The rest are good additions to the timeline, but those should have probably stayed in the Dossiers. Lancer1289 03:25, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And dates removed. Or, as my edit summary says, "Reomved". -- Commdor (Talk) 03:26, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

The manifesto publication, killing the pope and anything relating to game/novel characters is notable enough for me, anything else, not so much.JakePT 04:52, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Those are still up there, along with a few others. I'd fight for the Pope mention if it wasn't considered significant enough. Although since I'm Catholic, I might a little biased on that one. Lancer1289 04:57, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I left the Pope one alone because it was already there prior to the DLC, it just got more info added to it afterward. SpartHawg948 05:08, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good to know. I didn't realize it was there before and info got added. I figured it got added along with the rest of the Cerberus stuff. Lancer1289 05:12, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * NVM. Looks like I was wrong. It was added two days ago, fleshed out later that day. Still, that one has carried over a little into other stuff, as the new Pope, Leo XIV, has been mentioned in CDN. SpartHawg948 05:14, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Just to be sure, you're alright with the mention of how Cerberus funded the guy who killed two leaders on Earth (2175 CE) too? I kind of want it up there since Kasumi's Codex entries also discuss that event, but I'll remove it if necessary. -- Commdor (Talk) 05:18, September 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah. That's (in my mind, anyways) undoubtedly the most major event that was added, and I wouldn't dream of removing it. SpartHawg948 05:21, September 10, 2010 (UTC)

Criteria for Inclusion?
Not that I mind terrably that my additions were removed, but could we get a firm consensus on what constitutes relevant data, worth including in this article? Personally with these things I'm usually in favour of an all inclusive policy, so events can be placed in context of whatever else is taking place at the time (that's what a timeline is for, no?) but I understand that can lead to either very lengthy subsections or the necessity of breaking the timeline up into several smaller, more manageable articles (not that I'm proposing that, of course.) Perhaps a better option would be to include a mini-timeline with the individual species articles, with dates and events relevant only that given species? Either way it doesn't seam a good idea to scatter some of this information across dozens of articles. To me a timeline should act as a sort of reference index, hence my aforementioned preference for all inclusiveness. Blind Wolf 00:01, September 21, 2010 (UTC)

Binthu and Teltin
First, my mistake for not checking every detail of items already removed from the history. I based the decision (to add) partly on the fact that neither were mentioned in the recent discussion section. That said, I fail to see why these are removed, especially without any discussion on the talk page first. When multiple, obviously irrelevant items were added, Sparthawg himself discussed their (ir)relevance before jumping right to removal. His is a model that, in my opinion at least, is worthy of imitation.

The reasons these two items seem relevant (to game and galaxy) are: 1st and most obviously, they are in and affect the games, and in no small ways. This has several branches (a few examples: the research on Binthu influences the news, Miranda, Tali, Garrus, and Vesir. Teltin: Jack and everything that entails). 2nd, they are of galactic significance (Teltin was forerunner to Cerberus' Ascension plans; Teltin produced Jack in most of her power, and it is possible for Jack, e.g., to be of enormous importance in the fate of the galaxy, by being a member of Shepard's squad. Binthu is the home of research into the development of "shock troopers" to engage the Reapers, and anyone else in humanity's way; not to mention the death of an Alliance Admiral). 3rd, there is precedent ("the BAaT program is set up on Gagarin Station to train potential candidates and develop biotic implants" for humans only, with Kaiden being the most important to the galaxy [as far as I know]. Pragia's Teltin is the same kind of program, but backed by Cerberus instead of the Alliance, with Jack being etc.  Also, Teltin is mentioned already in the timeline: it would be fitting if its origin were mentioned). These are a few reasons that suggest themselves to me regarding the relevance of Binthu and Teltin, unlike much other Cerberus history, to the Timeline. --AnotherRho 21:09, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * Those facilities may factor somewhat into galactic history, but the dates they were built are ultimately unimportant. Same reason we took out all the colony dates, they take up space without adding anything notable or useful. I believe the only exception for colonies at present is the founding of human colonies on Demeter, Terra Nova, and Eden Prime in 2152, as they are humanity's first extrasolar colonies and thus represent a significant milestone in humanity's advancement into the galaxy; if we had the dates when other races made their first colonies, we'd add those too. Now, as for the dates when other facilities were constructed, such as Arcturus Station and Gagarin Station, those are in the timeline because they were included in the Codex timeline of major events in humanity's recent history. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:50, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I see. Thank you Commdor for responding. - The reason for exclusion that you just gave wasn't in the preceding discussion (unless I missed it). And the exception you mentioned, I called a "precedent"; and Binthu/Teltin seem to be exceptions if your exception were a rule, since Binthu and Teltin facilities are not colonies.  For the record, the criteria of significance were drawn from reason and from these speeches:
 * "Cerberus' activities have ramifications on a galactic level" (yourself) - Binthu/Teltin: (arguments already given)
 * "The manifesto publication, killing the pope and anything relating to game/novel characters is notable enough for me," (Jake) - B/T: (obvious)
 * "that one [i.e. the Pope's assassination] has carried over a little into other stuff, as the new Pope, Leo XIV, has been mentioned in CDN." (Spart) -- B/T carry over much more in comparison with this assassination, since the consequences are many and in-game.
 * "If their activities 'secretly affecting history' have any discernible ramifications in-game, they might have merit." (Spart) - B/T: all that pertains to these has clear and distinct ramifications in-game.
 * "the ones I don't think have any merit, as they have no impact, and concern people, places, events, etc mentioned nowhere else other than the dossier" (Spart) -- B/T: have much impact, and concern people, places, events, etc., mentioned elsewhere than the dossier.

--AnotherRho 22:32, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't believe I ever added the Binthu and Teltin dates to begin with (for the reasons we're discussing), so they wouldn't have been brought up in that particular discussion. And yes, while Binthu and Teltin are not colonies per se, I meant founding dates in general (the bulk of which happen to be colony dates) are not worthy of inclusion, save the exceptions I pointed out. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:29, September 23, 2010 (UTC)


 * That explains their absence then. And now I see that you meant founding dates in general; of course, the Council has a founding date, the Alliance too, etc.  In any case, the Binthu and Teltin dates still appear to be exceptional (even if the timeline didn't report founding dates in general) for the reasons listed; and also since no founding dates could be reasonably added for colonies (for example), except in the cases of Eden Prime and Terra Nova--which are of course in the timeline already.  Since this discussion concerns about 15 words of text, I'd say it was overdone; unless one were to mistake these 2 small additions for precedent to (wrongly) add dozens of colony and planet discovery dates, etc., to the timeline; for which reason it's good that the discussion is here.  --AnotherRho 01:54, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

The Council's fate after ME:Retribution
Hello, not owning the novel ME:Retribution, I have to ask: what happened to the council according to ME:Retribution?

Did they survive? If they didn't, how's the composition of the Council? What did Anderson become?

Thanks for your info.

— Pepoluan 07:35, September 30, 2010 (UTC)


 * Okay. I was *sure* I was typing into Talk:Citadel Council. I'm going to post the question there. Feel free to ignore this or delete this section. — Pepoluan 07:38, September 30, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard as a Biotic
Is there a source for the entries about Shepard's biotic abilities? Does it only apply to biotic classes like the vanguard? Ninsegtari 03:27, November 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * The source is developer documents we were made privy to. You can check it out at Talk:Biotics, at the top in the big jumble of text w/out a headline. Stormwaltz is the developer in question. And yes, the info about Shepard's biotic abilities only applies if Shepard is a biotic (i.e. a class w/ biotics). SpartHawg948 03:31, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Character Birth Dates
1. Do they really need to clog the reading here, even though most of them are inaccurate (+/- a year, at least)?

2. If so, do the birth dates based on that inaccurate promo page qualify as canon, even though Grunt's, Mordin's and Zaeed's age so obviously don't, that nobody dares to put them here?

3. If so, how does Miranda's age qualify, even though it is in direct violation of the canon timeline, according to which the first natural/accidental humans with biotic abilities were infants, and therefore the Miranda's dad could not possess the understanding of biotics necessary to successfully engineer her?
 * All these answers and more can be found literally all over this wiki. Some of them are found on this very page, for some others I would recommend seeing Talk:Zaeed Massani and Talk:Mordin Solus. SpartHawg948 20:56, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Where does Arrival fit on the timeline?
I saw the issue of the CDN timeline being 1:1 with our time and DLC timeline raised somewhere else before. Arrival could occur in 2185, at any time after horizon, but it could also occur in 2186, the same thing with LotSB, if post-ME2 content is to be taken to occur then. Should it just be placed under the ME2 2185 section where Lair currently is? Arbiter099 04:29, April 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I understand I'm the better part of a year late on this, but I think someone should address this question. Frankly, it's hard to answer this question accurately. There isn't, to my knowledge, any exact date given. Two things are certain; It happened between the dates of the attack on Horizon and Commander Shepard's incarceration. We don't have these exact dates. What we have are the years of the Horizon attack and Shepard's trial. That only leaves the latter half of 2185 and the early months of 2186. The decision to place it in 2186 is probably based on educated guessing. -- Foxtrot Zero  20:03, January 15, 2012 (UTC)
 * Actually it has been stated by the devs that Arrival takes place after the Suicide mission, although the exact amount of time after it is a bit hazy. Considering that ME3 takes place about 4 months after Arrival, not the end of ME2. Allowing it to be playable during the story made it available after horizon and that’s really the only reason. Lancer1289 20:09, January 15, 2012 (UTC)

Mass Effect: Revelation
I just recently started rereading Revelation and the first 6 pages and top of the 7th all seem to take place before the first contact war started. Since Mass Effect 2 is split up from the point the collectors kill Shepard should this also be split up? Tivis014 17:49, April 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Done. -- Commdor (Talk) 18:04, April 15, 2011 (UTC)

First contact sources.
What's the source for the information under the 200 BCE - 1 CE section? I've gone through about every official Mass Effect source, and have never seen this. I did a google search for it, and the only thing I dug up was on a roleplaying board, which makes it wonder if someone mistook fan information for official information. This question was asked in the archive, and it went unanswered.--24.255.171.169 13:45, May 16, 2011 (UTC)


 * The source is most likely the Galactic Codex: Essentials Edition 2183. -- Commdor (Talk) 14:10, May 16, 2011 (UTC)

Question about Second American Civil War
From the Codex, it references not only the destruction of the Statue of Liberty but how that was a catalyst for the Second American Civil War. The date of the attack on the statue was November 1st 2096, but no length is given for the civil war which was the result of that action.

Should this be added to the timeline as it is a significant (yet poorly document) event in history. - (Lone Hunter 18:35, January 31, 2012 (UTC))
 * First please remove the header as it will interrupt page flow in the future. it's quote obvious what is being discussed without it. Second. The timeline is more for big impactful universe events, not small ones like this which are noted elsewhere. Lancer1289 18:44, January 31, 2012 (UTC)


 * Sorry, I don't recall the wiki automatically using my change summary as a header. Anyway, what makes Manswell Expedition a "big impactful universe" event? Or the first sightings of the Collectors. Yes the Collectors make an impact later, but that event in and of itself is not a "big impactful universe" event. I would say the same for the birthdays of characters as those events are not ""big impactful universe" events.


 * But I will focus on the Second American Civil War. Which occurs just 50 years prior to the discovery of the Mass Relays. That is impactful as it has shaped humanity's mind frame as the last known huge conflict humanity has before their conflict with the turians 60 years later. The same that Yuri Gagarin is impactful as it shows humanity's progress prior to becoming apart of the Galactic community. - (198.151.13.15 22:53, February 3, 2012 (UTC))


 * The Manswell Expedition and Yuri Gagarin represent major milestones in humanity's development of spaceflight technology and advances in space exploration. The sightings of the Collectors are equable to a first contact event. The Second American Civil War is only important in the context of human history like WWII or the Black Plague. It has nothing to do with humanity's rise on the galactic stage, and the Codex entries do not imply that the war impacted Earth significantly beyond the UNAS itself or that it somehow shaped humanity's mindset going into the First Contact War as you claim. There's also plenty of room in that period for other conflicts to have arisen on Earth that we don't know about, so the idea that this was the last war on Earth before galactic contact is very much debatable. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:16, February 3, 2012 (UTC)


 * "The Second American Civil War" says it all is an american war not World War III, and yes the time frame leaves a lot of room for some type of conflict on Mother Earth or one of it's colonies and so we can say if it was or not "The big Conflict" for now as this is still a new franchice of which is growing on other media. on a different note do you all copy & paste the date and time or do you people use some command of which I don't know of just for future refference. -Jey8000 7:29 AM Monday, February 06, 2012 (UTC)

Enlistment dates
Does anyone know the source for Shepard's enlistment date?

I know that for spacer and earth born backgrounds, it's assumed on his eighteenth birthday, but under the colonist background the official description is that he enlisted "a few years" after the attack on Mindoir.

Do we know for certain that even under the colonist background he joined precisely at eighteen?

75.1.153.47 19:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC) Jordan


 * The date was shown in the official announcement trailer for Mass Effect 2. There's currently no evidence to suggest that despite the vagueness of the Colonist background, a Colonist Shepard enlisted on a different date than in the Spacer and Earth backgrounds. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)

6000 BCE
Looking through the timeline I was intrigued by the 6000 BCE entry. It suggested that this ship appeared again around the time of Mass Effect, but it's not something I remember seeing anything about in the game. The story of these spacefarers is not picked up again later in the timeline and I'm curious about the origin of this entry and the conclusion of its story.Onlinej (talk) 15:43, September 1, 2012 (UTC)
 * See August 11th, 2185. --Mr. Mittens (talk) 15:48, September 1, 2012 (UTC)

Human contact with Vorcha
The entry for 2184 includes the line "The freighter MSV Estevanico is attacked by Blood Pack mercenaries and crashes into the planet Zanethu. The Alliance crew on board were among the first humans to encounter the vorcha race." Is it confirmed that no humans encountered the vorcha for 27 years after the First Contact War and 22 years after the establishment of the human embassy on the Citadel?

Danimals847 - 8-May-2013


 * The wording is looser than that: the Alliance crew were "among the first humans" to encounter the vorcha, not the first. The email received after completing the assignment states that the Estevanico's crew was the first Alliance crew to encounter the vorcha, and not all humans are affiliated with the Alliance, so it is possible that other humans encountered vorcha before the Estevanico. We don't know how many did (if any), however, and the email indicates that the Estevanico incident is a fairly notable event, so it is safe to say with the info we currently have that the Estevanico's crew were among the first humans to encounter the vorcha. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:17, May 8, 2013 (UTC)


 * Mass Effect: Paragon Lost: vega and company, clearly alliance grunts, battling blood pack goons composed of krogan, varren, some tanks and vorcha on fehl prime circa 2183. erm, yep. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 19:26, May 8, 2013 (UTC)

Volus and batarian embassys
Wiki: The volus were the third race to post an embassy to the Citadel after the asari and salarians, in exactly 200 BCE (according to Citadel records accessed through Avina, outside the Embassies).

2183-2348 = 200 BCE

Avina: “The volus were the first non-Council species to be granted an embassy, roughly 2,384 galactic standard years ago”.

ME Revelation: “The galactic standard year—an average of the asari, salarian, and turian years—was only 1.09 times longer than Earth’s.”

2384/1.09=2187

2183-2187= 5 BCE

Is it correct?

Wiki: The Citadel Council made first contact with the batarians in approximately 200 BCE, and granted the batarians an embassy on the Citadel a century later. (100 BCE)

Then it’s impossoble. Is Council first contact with the batarians linked to date of volus embassy or first contact with batarians was exactly in 200 BCE? What Galactic Codex Essentials said about that? Is it possible to find somewhere a «Galactic Codex Essentials 2183»? --Alexpolt (talk) 10:23, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Interresting point that you raised ! Is Avina making a mistake about it ? Or is this an error ? I will look into it --DeldiRe (talk) 09:51, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

Another moment:

Codex: «2165 - Humans establish embassy on Citadel».

Avina (2183): «The most recently added embassy belongs to your own species: humanity. It was added nineteen galactic standard years ago, despite some rather vocal opposition."»

2183-19=2164 (mistake).

19/1.09=17.4.

Now 2183-17.4=2165.6 (correct). --Alexpolt (talk) 10:25, October 8, 2013 (UTC)

In fact you catched a mistake but your calculation is wrong, If a galactic year (G) is longer than an earth year (E), then your calcul is false. Some math :

1 G = 1.09 E (1 G)/1.09 = (1.09 E)/1.09 0,917 G = 1 E

THEN,

1) Volus embassy 2384/0,917 = 2457 2183-2457 = 274 BCE

2) Human embassy 19/0,917 = 20,7 2183-20,7 = 2162 BCE

--DeldiRe (talk) 14:03, October 8, 2013 (UTC)