Talk:Quarian

Do you think the Migrant Fleet will be in Mass Effect 2 or 3? If you do, tell me! I think that you might get to meet Tali's father.

Probably. Mass Effect: Ascension is set to flesh out the quarians and will help set the scene for ME2.--Hawki 09:23, 22 June 2008 (UTC)

Thanks man. You're a big help. And I'm not even a member of any gaming wiki. Can you relay this info to Tullis for me?

Does anyone have a definite source for the claim that "the quarian immune system treats the [levo-amino acid] proteins as germs"? It's possible, but unlikely unless someone has proof. -GenericMinion

It should be understood that the Quarians and their subsequent creation of the Geth is not as cut and dry as it seems, while the paragon and to a point the renegade Shephard in conversations with Tali will remark on how the "Geth defended themselves" and were therefore not at that fault, the Quarians themselves as well as Tali, most likely due to childhood teaching and subliminal messages, do not believe they made any mistakes in their treatment of the Geth, only in their creation, which is illogical as creating robotic servants is something all races are bound to do at some point (especially Humanity as we've already proven) and thus it was not the creation of the Geth that was the mistake, it was their subsequent treatment of them once they became sentient and also their desire to destroy them instead of simply let them live on their own as a new race or to communicate with them for peace.

As such the Quarians and the Geth should not be referred to as "The Geth rebelled and exiled them" as it wasn't rebellion as much as proper defense and thus they were not at fault.

Due to the actions of the initial Quarians it is understandable that the Geth would be suspicious and very aggressive towards any sentient due to the only known treatment they've received from sentients, which nearly resulted in their destruction, as well as a prior life of thralldom.

It should also be noted that the Geth have not completely forgotten about the Quarians as seen in the music and Quarian singing of their melancholy in the Armstrong Region with the independently working Geth missions. --Delsana 20:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Has Anybody played Galactic Civilizations II? Because, the Iconians built a Machine Race and it became Sentient. Then the Machines ALMOST wiped out most of the Iconians, and I think that Sounds a LOT like the quarians to me. Or am I just going insane?--Eustas P. Vanderbanger III 15:56, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

There is concept art for a male quarian from the August issue of GamePro. Image: http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/File:Male_Quarian.jpg Rodyn 14:39, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Enviro-suit helmet differences
I thought it was worth mentioning that female quarians tend to have flatter helmets, but those of male quarians are longer and more snout-like. I put it in trivia, since there didn't seem to be a suitable section.
 * Nice! I was going to start a section on this, but there already is one. Differences in male and female garb are not trivia. Those are examples of cultural norms and differences. As such, doesn't the 'Culture' section seem a more appropriate location for info on quarian culture? Certainly more appropriate than the trivia section. SpartHawg948 18:45, July 7, 2010 (UTC)

Quarians are Geth?
Does anyone else think it possible that the quarians are geth? Maybe the quarian race was totally wiped out, but seeing the opportunity, they molded themselves to look like quarians and made up the tale about their immune system to avoid suspicion. This way, they could stay hidden and safe beyond the veil while still exploring the rest of the galaxy and seizing valuable technology from the other races. My evidence: Their suits share a mild resemblance to the geth. Why would they want to look like the things that had nearly wiped them out? The suits were made after the geth because there would have been no need for them previously. Also, the independent geth send a message to the veil using quarians singing sadly. Perhaps there is some significance to this. Finally, in Mass Effect: Ascension they seemed very interested about the Reapers. This may go beyond their stated goal of using it to control the geth. Just a theory. What do you think?


 * It's not conclusive, but Vigil still states "you are not Prothean, but you are not machine either" if you take Tali along. --Tullis 21:26, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Forgot that part. That kind of throws a wrench into the theory. Still, they might have evolved to the point where an ancient VI couldn't tell the difference.

Additionally, you can see Tali's face (including her eyes) through her visor on occasion. Rodyn 21:38, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

Also based on the brutal torture which Pel dished out to a very organic quarian in Ascension I think it is safe to say that the quarians are not geth. --Jax Montag 08:37, December 11, 2009 (UTC)


 * You could also attribute the suit similarity to that simply being a feature of quarian design, which we've yet to actually see much of (aside from Tali's suit). --Tullis 22:49, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

I think the similarities between the geth and quarians astheticly is more to do with quarian physiology rather than their suits. When we create walking robots, their structure is similar to ours. It is logical that this would be the same for the quarian-created geth. Sir Jcd 21:50, April 12, 2010 (UTC)

I believe they're more of a cat-like species. Just look at Tali. She has slanted, cat-like eyes, digitigrade legs, and very paw looking feet. Plus we've yet to see a cat-like species, and one, the Cathar, was present in KOTOR. Makes sense to me anyway. -Proconix 02:43, 11 August 2009 (UTC)Proconix


 * Ok, well, given that the quarians created the geth, I think it's safe to assume that the quarians are not geth. Also, on a side note to the previous post, there were also Wookiees and a race of fish-people in KOTOR. Does that mean they appear in ME? No. Frankly, pointing out what was and wasn't in KOTOR as supporting evidence for what may be in ME2 is like me citing Jade Empire for a theory that a giant, magical dragon that supplies endless water will appear in ME2. SpartHawg948 03:12, September 4, 2009 (UTC)


 * Haha! Yeah, SpartHawg948 is right. For some reason, I just can't see them sitting in a conference meeting saying "Okay, so when are we gonna bring the Cat-People in?" That makes no sense to me. Besides, Bioware wouldn't want to redo something they've already done in a previous game. They might even face some legal issues by copying that. The Cathar were around before KotOR. I, personally, am going to take the Quarian's backstory at face value. Why in the world would the Geth pretend to be a distrusted, inferior, suspicious member of galactic society? That'd be redundant.--Effectofthemassvariety 03:45, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * You know, that is an excellent point I hadn't even thought of... the Cathar have, in fact been around for quite some time prior to Juhani's appearance in KOTOR. In fact, pretty much everything in KOTOR was created by Lucas' people, as opposed to Mass Effect, which is a BioWare original. Good call! SpartHawg948 11:32, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * IMHO, I think finding out the Quarians are a race of cat-people would be awesome. All this time, Tali was a catgirl...
 * It always seemed like the quarians were closely related to turians, who I believe are described as having avian-like features or biology? I know I read that somewhere.--Matt 2108 01:59, December 25, 2009 (UTC)


 * No evidence of any relation between the quarians and the turians has ever been presented. The only observed similarity, other than that they are both bipedal, is the fact that both are dextro-protein species, the only two known sentient dextro-protein species. This of course, does not make them any more related than it makes the humans and asari, or humans and salarians, as they are all levo-protein races. SpartHawg948 06:15, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * What the hell is a Dextro/Levo-Protein race?
 * ...sigh. Read the article. It's right there, as it has been for quite some time. SpartHawg948 20:57, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Basically, within chemistry molecules with a chiral centre (a carbon molecule surrounded by four different types of molecule groups) are said to have enantiomers. One enantiomer is levo, and the other is dextro. Organic life forms from this planet use levo amino acids. Quarians and turians, according to the ME Lore use dextro amino acids. Sugars have the same kind of thing going on. D-Glucose and L-Glucose, however, both types are perfectly edible I believe. In fact, my chemistry teacher used an example (I think it was the chemical limonene). Oranges have one form (dextro I think) that makes a sweet taste, but lemons have levo, which makes a bitter taste! Hope I helped clear it up for you anonymous poster :) Jake200493- I cba to sign in :)

Well...
I doubt it. The Quarians modeled the Geth after their own physiology. We do the same to our robots when we model them, why would we make them any different?

Quarian Accent
Does anyone know what the Quarian accent is based off of? It sounds familiar, but I can't quite place it, and it's bothering me unreasonably.
 * Liz Szroka is from Eastern Europe, if that helps. --Tullis 23:00, December 4, 2009 (UTC)

The Quarians have always reminded me of the Jewish people for some reason, but I cant pinpoint what it is that does so..


 * Which Jewish people? Do you mean Hebrews? People seem to forget that Jewish is not a nationality, it's a religion. There is no such thing as a Jewish accent, any more than there is a Catholic accent or a Sikh accent. SpartHawg948 04:44, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Both wrong. Hebrew is merely a language. Jewish is of or relating to the largest of the three extant tribes. Israelite may refer to entire people; Israeli to modern state. Jewish accent would be synonymous with Yiddish accent: exists, but inappropriate here. Could say more on subject, but more to point: superficial similarities (i.e. nar and vas--born of, crew of vs. bar and bas--son of, daughter of; exiled from home on account of own mistakes; &c.) planted the suggestion of similarity. Suggestion confirmed at Tali's trial. Opening prayer, "Blessed are the Ancestors who kept us alive, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season. Keelah se'lai." Compare to comparable Jewish blessing, "Blessed are You, Lord, God, King of the Universe, who gave us life, sustained us, and enabled us to reach this season." QED


 * Accent? What about the accent? Sproino 20:27, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Want to do everyone a favor and not inject a long partially incorrect statement into the middle of a conversation, as it happens hebrew is not just a language but a race, think really hard, there are languages named after the people who use it (english cometh from englend). ralok 20:37, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Incorrect sir. Hebrew is also an ethnic group. People who belong to this group are, of course, known as Hebrews, and they most certianly are a group of people (not 'merely a language') that many modern scholars believe to have been descended from the Habiru. And the Hebrews are generally considered to be either the ancestors of, or the same people as, the 'Israelites' you mentioned. Maybe it'd be a good idea to do some fact-checking before calling other people wrong? SpartHawg948 20:41, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * It's also worth pointing out that the claim that 'Jewish is of or relating to the largest of the three extant tribes' is also false. Jew, or Jewish, refers to one who practices Judaism, regardless of ethnic grouping. Converts to Judaism, regardless of ethnicity, are Jewish. And the original 'Jews'? Hebrews. Again, a very simple and cursory fact-check would have determined this. It's always nice when people can be bothered to do this research before calling other users (who have done this research) wrong. SpartHawg948 20:57, April 19, 2010 (UTC)


 * You can call your sources, I can call mine, and we would get nowhere. At this point, we are just about hopelessly removed from the subject. I stand by what I said, but know this is a disagreement that belongs elsewhere, and would be happy to continue it with you elsewhere. I would like to call attention back to the latter portion of what I wrote before, specifically the similarity between the opening prayer at Tali's trial and the Shehekhianu. At that point I had no doubt that the whatever-you-want-to-call-my-people was an inspiration for the Quarians, one of three I can see at this point. Sproino 20:45, April 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I stand corrected. 'Hebrew' is a historically accepted biblical term. I do have a few friends, Levites, though, who comment sourly on being grouped in with Judah. Many many years ago, in school, we wasted nearly a week of time in Nevi'im class arguing about Hebrews, Jews, Israelites, &c. A whole week and consulting with half the teachers later, we still didn't get a satisfactory answer. Sproino 21:03, April 20, 2010 (UTC)

Quarians always reminded me of middle-eastern people.--Kamikaz 23:29, December 25, 2009 (UTC)
 * Middle-Eastern is a better way to describe them, yes something about the Quarians do remind me of them.


 * I guess their nomadic ways are somewhat like some of the North African and Middle Eastern tribes (the Bedouin, Tuareg and other such groups), although their accents sound much more Eastern European, and when you get right down to it, their accents and their culture remind the me the most of the Romani, also known as Gypsies. They definitely sound more Eastern European than Middle-Eastern. (Also, please remember that unless it's the first word in the sentance, quarian is not capitalized. so it sould be "something about the quarians", not "something about the Quarians") SpartHawg948 21:04, December 26, 2009 (UTC)
 * Correction; FUTURISTIC Gypsies.


 * No, that isn't a correction, as the Romani are not futuristic. I was likening the quarians to the Romani, but the only use of the word gypsies was to identify the Romani, since most people don't know the proper name for their people. The quarians could be likened to futuristic gypsies, but as the word gypsy was not used to refer to the quarians, "FUTURISTIC Gypsies" is in no way, shape or form a correction to what I said. SpartHawg94 08:07, December 27, 2009 (UTC)


 * Some of the quarians, such as Reeger on Haelstrom and Liz on the Citadel, have American accents.
 * Define "American accent". There are, of course, many, many 'American accents', which all sound very different. There is one generally accepted (by the media anyways) standard, which is the flat 'Midwestern' accent spoken in the Midwest and Great Plains states from approx Western Ohio out to Iowa, but 'American accent' could mean a Southern accent, a Deep Southern accent, a Creole accent, a Boston accent, an upper New England accent, a Yooper accent, a Minnesotan (aka Southern Canadian) accent, or many, many more. Please be more specific. SpartHawg948 22:14, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum- for an excellent (and pretty damn interesting) look at this subject, I'd recommend watching the PBS documentary Do You Speak American?. The official PBS site can be found here. Again, saying 'American accent' is meaningless, as there are so many incredibly distinct American accents and dialects. SpartHawg948 22:19, April 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Branching off the point of the middle-eastern accent - the person who voices Shala'Raan vas Tonbay is called Shohreh Aghdashloo, who's from Iran. 86.4.179.218 01:35, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * And as we now know, there are multiple quarian accents, as we've now seen quarians who have British and Midwesten-American accents. So... yeah. I don't think we can really say there is one quarian accent anymore. SpartHawg948 01:41, August 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * We never find out what ships Kal'Reegar and Veetor are from, or anyone else besides Tali (Shala'Raan lives on the Tonbay, but we never find out her birth ship - I don't think it would be the Rayya, but it's possible). But you can hear a similar accent (or maybe it's me) from Rael'Zorah in his recording, so perhaps those from different ships have different accents? It would make sense - just like every part of a country has its own differences in accent from on region to another, quarians from each ship in the Fleet may have different accents, and as they move between ships their accent changes. --175.38.241.123 11:50, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

I thought that Rael'Zorah had a sort of German accent. Quite a strong one in fact. Tali sounds like she's from Eastern Europe. Owlbread 15:59, August 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * People if we are going to discuss what accents are, then please take it to the appropriate places, like a blog or a forum please. Lancer1289 18:27, August 6, 2011 (UTC)

Reproduction
Theres been a rumor going around that the Quarians reproduce sortof like sea horses or through oviposition. Its been a mix of popularity and irony for any fans who are even slightly attracted to the character Tali. The joke in the matter is that is you could find a way to get past the whole immune system problem, you probably wouldn't want to.

idk, what those big words mean, but I'd still hit that.DanteShepard 13:26, January 26, 2010 (UTC)


 * Basically the rumor/joke is that the females lay the eggs/have them fertilized, then stick them into the guys to take care of till they hatch, and usually after as well. It's a bit more complicated than that, but that's the general idea of it.  That's why male seahorses are on some father's day cards. ~ no account 4:33, Feb 22, 2011

I can't remember where I heard/read it but to mate on the flotilla the room has to be sterilized and the Quarians have to pump themselves full of anti-biotics. So no, no sea horse thingy. 86.4.179.218 01:37, August 3, 2010 (UTC)

Skin tone?
I notice that the biology section has no mention of the skin tone of the quarians. I understand there may not be much (or any) information to go on regarding this, but I think we should address it if possible. Mass Effect 2 comes out today (in the US) so I'm hoping that while playing it Bioware gives us something in the codex.DanteShepard 13:25, January 26, 2010 (UTC) I swore somewhere in ME1 there was a quarian armour that showed Tali's skin.It was green.

I doubt that there was a quarian armor that showed Tali's skin since quarians' immune system are extremely weak and sensitive therefore any kind of contact with the outside world (this includes holes in their suit) can be lethal for them.

*spoiler warning*
In reply to that, I just finished pursuing the relationship with Tali and I'm quite dissapointed that you do not get to see her face...

--- There are a few scenes where her mask is not as clouded as usual. One example is on her Loyalty mission, when you find her father's body. If you choose the paragon option when she is crying, you will see a lot of her facial structure. They dont look that much different from humans. Aside from the glowing eyes.

I'm not sure if I want to see what they look like really. Im kind of indifferent about the whole conspicuous thing.--24.215.89.14 20:40, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

If you look very carefully, have the gamma up, and have a HD TV or monitor, you can sort of see the outline of Tali's nose, or at least what appears to be a more-or-less human-like nose, and at some points if you look closely you can see cheekbones and eyebrows (though no actual hair, although I don't know that you'd see that through the visor anyway) at some points. It's often quite hard to spot though, unless you can record a cutscene and go through it st a slower speed (or get it from Youtube). --175.38.241.123 11:56, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance
From what I've read and seen, they seem to be a mixture of Human and Turian traits. They have the Turian's dextro-protein and possess roughly similar hand and feet structure. But they also have the Human features mentioned in the second paragraph of the biology section. For me at least this seems to throw what I thought they looked like into question. Krono &#39;Zulamee 13:59, January 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Adding onto this, and for future editors, I'll note that one apparent deviation from human facial features is in the ears. Mass Effect: Ascension, (the infamous) page 235: "The other cheek gaped wide, as if someone had slit it lengthwise from lip to what passed for the quarian version of an ear." - Delphinus 09:23, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just pointing out though that the phrase "what passed for" (and "what passes for", etc) don't necessarily mean that whatever it is isn't recognizable. What I mean by that is that it can also be used (often, but not always, derisively or condescendingly) to simply highlight some sort of difference, ie a difference in size, shape, color, or what have you, from the norm. So the phrase "what passed for the quarian version of an ear" doesn't necessarily mean "They do not possess ears as humans might recognize them"... that statement would be taking it a bit too far. You have to figure, even if they look somewhat different, the "quarian version of an ear" is still similar enough for humans to recognize that it is "the quarian version of an ear." SpartHawg948 09:31, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a valid point. Feel free to reword it, of course, but I feel that it still warrants inclusion in some form. To me, the actual wording is evocative of a sort of earlike structure (turian membranes, asari head-holes) where the ear should be. But of course, everything related to the topic is necessarily vague. Scooting around the subject rather than simply saying "quarian ear," however, does suggest that it's only vaguely recognizable to a human as serving that function; positioning would be the giveaway, given the context. - Delphinus 09:37, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Why Quarians are categorized as non-Citadel race?
Because in Mass Effect 2 there appears to be Quarians in Citadel. See:

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Citadel:_Crime_in_Progress

It's very much their style to be with themselves far away from others but they're not totally separated. What do you think?


 * I think you misunderstand what it means to be a Citadel race. Whether a race is a Citadel race or a non-Citadel race has nothing to do with whether or not members of that race can be found on the Citadel. It has to do with whether or not the race is a member of the Citadel Council (either as a Council race or an Associate race) and has an embassy on the Citadel. If a race has an embassy on the Citadel and is either an Associate Member or Council Member of the Citadel Council, they are considered a Citadel Race. If they do not have an embassy or representation in the Council (such as the batarians and the quarians) they are considered to be a Non-Citadel Race. As the history section of this article clearly states, the quarians used to be a Citadel race, but were expelled from the Citadel Council as punishment for creating the geth, which is why they are now a Non-Citadel Race. SpartHawg948 09:49, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Grunt's Comment
Grunt, in your first conversation with him after awakening him from his pod, says something along the lines of "Humans, asari, salarians, you're all soft. Quarians...not so much." Should this be made note of in the trivia section? DanteShepard 22:04, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * This may just be in reference to the fact that they always wear suits and helmets, which, for Quarians, can be considered akin to their skin. I don't think it warrants any mentioning. I think there's enough information from Tali and other sources to assume that they're soft-skinned, like us. Vund223 22:27, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I took it as referring to their mental state - hard, tough, and independent. I don't think it has anything to do with their physiology. Ech0six 04:32, February 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, if I recall correctly, the comment is made while talking about how difficult things are to kill with a knife. He's talking about humans, asari, salarians all being fairly easy to stab (specifically in the spine, I believe it was) and is presumably referring to the fact that quarians are never without their enviro-suits and as such are rather more difficult to get a blade into. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. As to whether or not quarians have soft skin, I've not gathered anything from Tali'Zorah or Ascension that would lead me to believe they've anything but. Zaya&#39;Kol nar Sienna 08:18, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, it might have to do with there physiology. Scence we do not see Quarian skin and the convesation was about stabbing, the quarians might have a tougher skin than humans, asari, etc. but have weaker skin than kogans. 67.190.232.247 01:43, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

As much as it pains me to say it, i always assumed Grunt was Referring to Quarian Biology, if you think about it, from what we can see quarian bio-suits are rather snug and body fitting, looking more like a wetsuit than a iron-man-esq suit of armor (this is not to say they are not tough, just a comparison) and if were factoring in a korgans strength i'd say that a suit that can be punchured by pistol rounds could be stabbed through with relative ease by a being of such considerable strength, so as much as I'd love Quarians to have sfot skin ala Asari ans Human, i think Bioware has got somwhat of a nasty surprise in store for us if a quarian is revealed without its suit come ME3 121.219.246.140 14:54, June 12, 2010 (UTC)

I'm having to agree that Grunt's referring to quarian biology. He's talking about stabbing a human before, and talking about stabbing a turian after, and how easy or hard it is to sever a spinal cord like that. Heck, if anything, if he's thinking about the suit, he might think them even softer; just shatter the visor, right? No, he's probably talking about something else, maybe something about the structure of the spine or skeleton that makes it harder to kill a quarian that way.174.98.151.28 16:30, July 16, 2010 (UTC)

But would Grunt know anything about Quarian biology? Krogan are not typically known as scientists, and not a lot of people even see quarians without their suits. Would Okeer have been able to imprint this information? Also, the suits must be tough if Tali can sustain even one or two gunshots after her shields break and not even sick. I think he's talking about the suits. 69.66.133.237 22:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Okeer was ancient, well over a thousand years old, and would have been around before quarians were always stuck in their suits. The Quarian suits are fairly sturdy, but not so much that basic combat does not damage them (i.e. Kal'Reegar's suit is damaged when you first encounter him). Grunt is almost certainly referring to a biological factor, though it may not be skin. It could be muscle density or skeletal structure as well.

Difference between Dextro- and Levo-
On Medicine.Net, I found these definitions:

"Dextro-: Prefix derived from the Latin dexter meaning 'on the right side.' A molecule that shows dextrorotation is turning or twisting to the right. The opposition of dextro- is levo-."

"Levo-: Prefix derived from the Latin 'laevus' meaning on the left side. A molecule that shows levorotation is turning or twisting to the left. The opposite of levo- is dextro- which is derived from the Latin dexter meaning on the right side."

Wikipedia has an article on protein. Throwback 07:08, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

How long do quarians live?
I can't find any info on this. Humans live 150 years, salarians live 40 years, asari 1000. What about quarians?

Those are all ballpark ranges; any species can live less or longer. If I recall, quarians have livespans comparible to humans, so around 100-150, with venerability kicking in around 65ish. Ech0six 15:23, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Picture
Can we get a new picture for the quarians? The current just looks....bleh. It looks like a cropped photo that doesn't do any justice to the quarian appearance imo. --Joshtopher27 07:01, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * But it does do a good job of showing both Male and Female quarians, and since they are the only species other than Humans which we have seen both genders, I think we should keep it that way. 69.66.133.237 22:30, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Quarian homeworld
Is there a source for the name of the quarian homeworld being a planet named Rannoch? I don't think I've come across any mention of it. &mdash;Seburo 04:52, February 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm curious about this as well. Matt 2108 04:53, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

It was stated by Legion during one of his conversations. Hawka 12:07, February 22, 2010 (UTC)

Alternate Keelah se'lai meaning
I never feel like the edit summary box gives enough room to adequately explain the reasoning behind edits of this nature, so I end up leaving messages on talk pages, like this one... So it struck me while playing through ME2 again, that while none of the proposed meanings for "keelah se'lai" was unreasonable, and all seem fairly plausible, what it reminded me of the most, especially in the myriad ways it is used (as a battle cry, as a somber intonation at the beginning of Tali's trial, and so on) was the old Crusader cry/saying deus vult, which is Latin for "God wills it". The phrase was first used by Pope Urban II at the Council of Cleremont in his speech urging the nations of Western Europe to launch what would come to be known as the First Crusade in an attempt to relieve the beleaguered Byzantine Empire, which was being overrun by the Seljuk Turks. The phrase was then repeated (as a cry of enthusiasm) by the crowd, and went on to serve a multitude of uses, including most notably serving as a battle cry, just like keelah se'lai is used by the quarians. And that's my reasoning. See? No way that would have fit in an edit summary! :P SpartHawg948 11:06, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * (Strictly speaking, Deus vult translates literally as "God wishes it." Idiomatically this makes no difference of course.) --DRY 16:54, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * "Vult" actually means wills or wishes. So Deus Vult can mean God wills it or God wishes it, and His Holiness was quite clear in which meaning he was using. :) SpartHawg948 21:40, February 25, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not going to lie though, I was pleasantly surprised to see that the first comment was concerning the proper translation of "vult" from Latin to English! If anything, I'd expected any comments to be angry remarks about my characterization of the First Crusade. Too many people (for reasons I'll not get into b/c it'll turn into a political rant! :P) these days operate under the mistaken assumption that the Crusades (including the First Crusade) were wars of aggression launched by the Europeans against the Middle East, not realizing that the First Crusade was actually a counter-attack, launched in response to a plea for aid from the Byzantines. I blame MTV and Rock-em Sock-em Robots for the historical ignorance on the part of the kids! Oh, and Pac-Man video games! :P SpartHawg948 04:20, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Having double checked, I find that I was mistaken. I had thought the use post-Classical, but the OLD does list it &mdash; as, anyway more to the point, does Latham; I don't have du Cange to hand. My apologies: my memory is no longer what it used to be. (That being said, the sense of volo here is that of an authoritative wish.) And one can argue endlessly over the causes of wars: there is seldom a single clear cut answer. --DRY 03:58, February 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I should have pointed out that deus vult is classical Latin. In the medieval Vulgar Latin in use by most people at the time, "God wills it" would be deus lo vult. However, as the Catholic Church used Classical Latin, this is the form the Pope used, which was subsequently echoed by the assembled people and later by the Crusaders. SpartHawg948 04:03, February 27, 2010 (UTC)

Pathogenic microbes
"Quarian immune systems have always been comparatively weak, as pathogenic microbes were comparatively rare in their homeworld's biosphere."

I'm having a discussion on quarian biology, and I would like to have a source for this. What is meant by 'comparatively rare', as the only in game quote I found when Shepard is talking to Tali is "Most viruses on our homeworld were partially beneficial."

I only ask because I'm wondering if this is speculation in the article or whether it is an actual "canon" basis.

Actually in mass effect 1 tali told garrus in the elevator when he asked why she didnt take her helmet off so she could use more armours, she said when the quarians fled the geth and lived on the flotilla for so long, their immune systems gradually weakened (because of the decontaminations on ships blah blag blah) and had to wear full body suits to stop from getting sick and even dieing. It got so bad that they even had to wear suits on the flotilla around other quarians. 76.119.172.59 15:42, April 24, 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a definite contradiction there. If the flotilla is kept decontaminated, they would only need suits when they left. It feels like Bioware didn't put much thought into the whole thing (which is okay--it's not a textbook, I can accept oversights).
 * How is a contradiction that they can't keep extremely dirty ships, with traffic going in and out, being patched up every other week, that are typically active long past their intended life cycle, and plenty of other things constantly clean? Because that seems like a very hard thing to do. There is no way you can keep ships that are either old, in some cases 300+ years, or patched up clean. The waste products from the quarians themselves aren't clean, nor are a lot of the things they have to use to keep their ships running. Everything they have to use gives off byproducts and even the plants they grow on the Lifeships give off byproducts. There is no way to keep something like that perfectly clean, so they have to wear the suits even on the fleet. If everything was super clean, then they wouldn't have to wear the suits. As such I can't see how this is even remotely an oversight, or even remotely coming close to a contradiction, more like there are plenty of valid reasons why it is much more accurate to what would actually be happening. Lancer1289 01:00, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Duplicated info on the Geth War page
Much of the information in the History section of this page is duplicated on the Geth War page. Should it be? I was planning on adding a link to that page here, but it really doesn't say anything that isn't already said in the history section. What should be done about this? I'd move for moving most of the info about the war to the Geth War page itself, then summarizing it here, as happens on the Timeline page. I'm reluctant to do that, though. Thoughts? Dammej 02:26, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Actually the history section was created long before the Geth War article, so the information that is here should stay because it is relevant to the quarians. Their history is an essencial part of the people and the history section should stay here. Lancer1289 02:28, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendium: Most of the other species have a history section as well and the history section is vital to the articles. So remving it is a no go. Lancer1289 02:32, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Oh, I don't dispute that the history section should exist. My suggestion was that the info about the war should be moved to that article, then summarized here, linking to the war article for full detail about it. Dammej 02:41, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also no becuase the last time I checked, the war was a crutial part of their history. If you want to add a see also link at the top, then that would be ok, but removing that information is a no go. The Geth War article should be much more detalied and is. Also it is sumerized here, because there is much more information on the other article. Again the removal would not be good, but a see tag would be fine. The Geth War is a crutial part of their history, and it is summerized here. Lancer1289 02:45, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * For a good example, see the Human and First Contact War articles, and why we don't do that. The Human history section is just a brief description of the article and the war article is much more detalied. If we get any more information, then the Geth War article is where it should go. Lancer1289 02:48, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. Added link. Dammej 02:54, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just modified it a little bit. Lancer1289 02:57, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

And how is Quarians being the only species with male and female characters not trivia?
It fits in with the Manual of Style. It's information that players may not have been aware of and is interesting, where does it not fit in? CAW4 21:19, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it isn't strictly true, for starters. The bit said that quarians (again, small q quarian, not Quarian) were the only race other than humans to have both males and females shown in-game. So, what about that female krogan? And they're the only species with known females shown, as we don't really know the genders of most of the aliens in the game (the hanar, elcor, volus, etc.) SpartHawg948 21:38, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also there were supposed to be female turians in ME, but the developers ran out of time or money, so they didn't make it in. That is the reason this removed this a few times now. Lancer1289 21:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC)

Migrant Fleet and BSG
Since I don't want to start an edit war over this, I personally think that the connection between the Quarian Migrant Fleet, and that of the reimagined Battlestart Galactica have way too many parrallels to not be considered trivia. Considering this is also the first time it's been removed since it was put there, a long time ago, I'll get the date later. Anyway the trivia said that both were outed by their own creations, while not unique, the way it was done, ending up in a fleet in space, isn't, or at least from my knowledge. Also the fact that the two fleets are completly dependent on what resources they can scavenge and mine in order to survive. IMHO, there are just way to many similarities to dismiss outright. The other tiriva I have no objection on becuase there isn't enough there. So thoughs opinions. Lancer1289 22:30, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * I wholeheartedly agree. There do seem to be quite a number of parallels. Being ousted from their worlds by synthetics which they themselves created, forced to flee on whatever ships they could scrounge up, and survive on whatever they can find in space. Seems fairly similar, at the same time, not a terribly common thing in sci-fi. SpartHawg948 22:35, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * The reason I removed it was simply because they really share two things, Turned Against Their Masters and nomads (Recycled IN SPACE) neither of which are particularly unique tropes. Also on second thought they don't even really share Turned Against Their Masters because the quarians Shot First. And yes I just spent a while stuck on TV Tropes looking that up (I won't give you links because I'm not that mean). Bastian964 23:35, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again though, I wouldn't say that it was 'turned against their masters'. Neither myself nor Lancer said anything of the sort, and neither did the article. We all said that both the quarians and the Colonials were ousted (or outed, in Lancer's case) from their worlds by synthetics of their own creation. That bit is true in both cases regardless of who shot first. Also, you're overlooking some other things. They have the following in common: In both cases the civilizations created advanced synthetics as tools. Granted, this is a common sci-fi theme, but still. Both were then ousted from their worlds by said synthetics (again, this is true no matter who shot first). This is not so common. Synthetic revolt, yes. Being booted from their worlds entirely? No. They were both forced to survive by living on any spaceship they could find, with the collected fleet moving from place to place and such. Both feature a combination of military and civilian rule, with the civilian government being nominally superior, but ultimate power resting with the military. Both have strong factions pushing for a return to the home worlds, and another strong faction pushing for resettlement elsewhere, as well as pro-war factions and pro-cohabitation factions. Both feature the fleet surviving by scrounging whatever they can find in space. That's at least six major thematic similarities, similarities which, far from being trivial surface matters, are the underpinnings of the entire society. A far cry from the 'two things' you mentioned that are not particularly unique, one of which was a mischaracterization of what was actually said by myself, Lancer, and the article. SpartHawg948 23:53, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, sorry. I ddin't mean to mischaracterize what was said. Anyways, I don't feel that strongly about it, if you want it to go in it can go in. Bastian964 22:53, July 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll throw it back in, but I'll also reword it a little to make it more relevent. Just give me a few minutes. Lancer1289 22:59, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

Wait a minute...
Is there any reason why Quarians can't/don't have transparent visors? Tali&#39;s no.1 fan 16:17, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. For plot purposes. Beyond that it could be any number of things. Cultural norms that value hiding ones face, sensitive eyes which necessitate tinted visors, use of some sort of advanced optics or HUD that would necessitate tinted visors, limited industrial capacity that necessitates that all transparent materials of that sort be used for repairing ships, causing quarian enviro-suits to get the darker material, so on and so forth. So yes, there's one obvious real-world reason - plot purposes, for giving quarians, and specifically Tali, that air of mystique, and all sorts of plausible in-universe reasons one could come up with, SpartHawg948 19:28, August 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * They are comparable in several ways to middle eastern cultures, so it could be something about hiding their face. It looks to me, however, that it's not that the visors aren't transparent, but that there is a purple gas inside the visor, hence why it looks all hazy and smokey. 69.66.133.237 22:34, August 15, 2010 (UTC)

Arent uarians oxygen reathers, purple gas didnt come out of tali when shephard took the mask off. Is oxyen pruple, not all the quarians are purple. I am not an expert but i beleive it is the same reason astronaut helmets are not transparent. Whatever reason that may beralok 01:33, August 16, 2010 (UTC)

I think that their visor is colored because the first exosuits were space suits used on ships to make repairs outside the ship. The visors were colored to defend the eyes of the user from direct sunlight. After the immune system of the quarian people degenerated, they used these suits everyday, and modifided it to everyday use. The visor color became a cultural thing.


 * Actually, I always figured it was a combination of two things. First, as stated above, to protect the eyes from direct sunlight when making spacewalks to repair the ship's hull.  And second, Tali says in ME2 that privacy is very difficult to find on the flotilla, so it might have started as protection, and then was retained as a sort of privacy feature.

Toe number
I haven played mass effect in a while, but i seem to remember that male quarians have a different number of toes. I know tali and all female quariasn have two, plus the little vestigial one. But i dont think the male ones have tht vestigial toe. Can anyone confirm this? ralok 19:25, August 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I know I'm late, but I've noticed that too. Males don't seem to have the small toe. But maybe they just manage to hide them inside their boots? --Kiadony 12:36, September 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thats right. Males have 2 toes and are bigger than the female's toes. Here: Image. SoulRipper 13:33, September 20, 2010 (UTC)

One Child policy
So, for some reason this has come up a couple of times. Tali says pretty specifically that quarians are allowed to have one child, not two. She elaborates that under dire circumstances of population decline, this rule can be temporarily suspended, but the norm is one child, not two. See, 2:48 into the video. Apologies, the Shepard in the video is weird-looking, but it was the first video I could find that did the trick. SpartHawg948 22:32, September 27, 2010 (UTC)



The problem with this is that a one child policy leads to population decline by its very definition, cutting the population in half every generation. Just to achieve a stable population you'd statistically need 2.11 children per couple.--Stratomunchkin 22:24, September 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * The feasibility of a one-child policy for long-term population stability is not at issue here. What is at issue is what is stated in-game, i.e what is canon. And it is canon that the quarians have a one-child policy, which does (canonically) seem to keep their population at a sustainable level, and when there is a decline, they then temporarily suspend the policy. Talk pages like this are not intended for discussions of in-game materials and debates about what are assumed to be the real-life implications of those policies. They are for discussion of the article, particularly changes and issues of canon. SpartHawg948 22:32, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Just a little bumpitty-bump of this thread to keep it fresh in people's minds, since we seem to have had another edit disputing the 'one child policy' of the quarians. It is their policy to allow families to have one child under normal circumstances, not two. SpartHawg948 20:27, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I can see why people would get it mixed up, though...one has to wonder how capable the quarians are at basic mathematics... --Lucius Voltaic 20:39, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably not as good as they used to be, now that their fancy adding machines up and rebelled on them. SpartHawg948 20:43, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * I think I should point out that a one-child policy does not rule out the possibility of multiple childbirth (e.g. twins or triplets), and that Tali explicitly stated that they can and do suspend the one-child policy when necessary. 69.92.167.183 09:38, February 1, 2012 (UTC)

Enviro-Suit VS Burqa
In the trivia it says the Enviro-Suit the Quarians wear is culturally similar to the burqa, which is just a load of bullshit. Quarians don't want to hide anything, and they even go so far as to individualize their suits to be recognizable by others. This is even true in the game, despite the resource restrictions. Every Quarian looks at least a little bit different from the other Quarians. So yeah, I definitely disagree that there are any cultural similarities, at all.

I feel like I should edit it, but I'd rather let a respected member of the community do it, to avoid any unpleasantness.

94.224.139.171 17:21, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * First off, please note that we do have a language policy, so please be mindful of the language. Next, let's look at your claim. It cites cultural and physical similarities. Odd how you left out fully one half of the trivia. Hmmm... Now, as to your "supporting evidence". Quarians don't want to hide anything, and go as far as possible to customize suits. You have canon proof of this, I assume? And can answer why, if quarians don't want to hide anything, they wear dark tinted helmets that obscure the face? And why the women (and only the women, in a clear-cut cultural similarity) further conceal themselves with layers of fabric over the head? And you do know, don't you, that there are a plethora of different styles and makes of burqas? It's not like all burqas look the same, and all women wearing them look the same. That's just asinine. So yeah, given that quarian females wear an extra layer of cloth covering their heads (note too, and this is important - not one quarian woman has been seen without one, strongly suggesting it's mandatory, likely a cultural madate), I can see definite cultural similarities.


 * This respected member of the community doesn't see any reason to remove what appears to be a perfectly valid bit of trivia. SpartHawg948 21:43, August 29, 2010 (UTC)

With respect to both of you, the quarian girls use more of a hijab, it looks like culture thing because fabric over envirosuit is not for functional purpose, and all quarian girls use it. to explain difference between burqa and hijab wikipedia will have better writers than me, but i can tell you that definitely quarian headdress over tight not modest suit, is like many girls go with hijab and jeans pants. the burqa is made for modesty, and should never ever be tight to show shape of body, also should be without any ornaments to attract the eye. it is just for girl who is not yet married, it is functional so that the man won't marry her for the wrong reason, after wedding she will ware hijab and galabia if traditional, or hijab and modern dress (long) if not. I believe that you should not say that it's like burqa because burqa is high symbol for modesty by choice, to me it looks like quarian suit is very tight on purpose, and also one qurian in eternity acts like a prostitute. I ask you not to compare suit to burqa, but headdcover is very much like hijab. thank you.
 * Oh, I know all about the difference between a burqa and a hijab, so no need for a lecture. I merely referred to a burqa because I was answering a query referencing the burqa, not the hijab. I try and keep things on-topic, after all. Now, as to the other points, the quarian suits most likely are very tight on purpose. Most environment suits are designed to be tight, to keep the wearer from becoming stuck or trapped in confined spaces. And quarian ships, as we know are very confined. Additionally, many (if not all) quarians do serve as mechanics aboard their ships from time to time, for the simple reason that they need to keep them running. And, as a mechanic, I can tell you that bulky or loose clothing is a serious safety hazard when working on machinery. Finally, one quarian acts like a prostitute, eh? So that suddenly counterbalances all the other quarians who don't? Of course not! That one quarian is (based on what we have seen thus far) the exception. I could just as easily point to one Muslim woman who acts comparably, and go "see! this whole modesty thing is nonsense!" but that wouldn't make it true. Look at the rule, not the exception to it. SpartHawg948 05:05, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Sir, you said things from the real world that i would like to ask you about: 1) i have seen girls who are airplane mechanics while in the military, they wear the same jumpsuit like men (unisex). it is even standard wear for girls on your aircraft carriers, and i'm sorry but this is not very tight and very not attractive. if female mechanic who work with you have suit as tight like tali, you are very good avoiding distraction. 2) envirosuit is designed with thought of specific dangers. you said most suits are tight, but i know mainly of bulky suits with a lot of layer and air filters or air source. i will thank you for reference to mechanic/enviro suits you mentioned, i am sure you would not make it up just to tell me i am wrong. 3) yes, it is true that this qurian is not proof for entire race, and i admit that even it's just a game, it made me uncomfortable to listen to her behave like that while her people are enduring hardship and suffer bad publicity. but you forget that this is a game, and just by walking nearby you are forced to hear this, so developers wanted you to know that some quarians are like that. 4) i don't have the ability to lecture you in your language, and even if i did, would not have tried.
 * I too have seen many women who are aircraft mechanics. And yes, they do wear the same uniforms and coveralls (we don't wear jumpsuits, as we aren't jumping in or out of anything) that men do. And let me tell you, those suits can be mighty form-fitting, especially when ladders are involved. It's even more noticeable on female pilots with their flight suits. They aren't quite as tight as Tali's, but they also aren't the most modest suits out there. As for environment suits being tight by design, you may know of bulky suits in real-life, but we have seen many times that this is not the case in the Mass Effect universe. Just look at the opening cutscene of Mass Effect 2. Slap on a helmet, and you're good to walk through vacuum, completely exposed to space. No bulky suit requited. And yes, of course it was deliberate that the promiscuous quarian was placed where she could be heard. This was likely done to show that quarians are not all some monolithic race, all uniform and the same. It's the same reason that there are turians like Saren Arterius and Warden Kuril, who clearly are not like most members of their race, and krogan like Urdnot Wrex, and so on and so forth. They are the exceptions to the rule. Of course some quarians are like that. Most, however, aren't. And an interesting tidbit. I'm actually replaying Tali's loyalty mission right now, and noted that most (if not all) quarian females do cover up some of the more... titillating (for lack of a better term) parts of their environment suits with layers of fabric. Look at their hips. Covered with fabric of the same sort as their head-coverings. Seems to suggest that they're going for modesty despite their form-fitting suits, doesn't it? SpartHawg948 06:19, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think it was done (by the game's designers) for beauty rather than modesty. Their look is complete, balanced and harmonic with fabrics over suits, not only on their heads. --Kiadony 15:42, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I would like to point out a few things about the quarians' enviro-suits, and their allegedly similarity with the burqa. First of all, the burqa and the enviro-suit differ in terms of function. The burqa is worn by women to cover their heads - otherwise they are considered to be obscene. The enviro-suit serves as an extra layer of privacy, due to the lack of private space on the Migrant Fleet - NOT as a religious mandate. Secondly, both female AND male quarians cover their heads. The first picture in the quarian wiki page is a fine example. Simply, female quarians have an extra piece of cloth over their head in order to make them look more attractive and to distinguish themselves from male quarians (the same reason why most women have long hair in contrast with men). In addition the burqa and hijab have major physical differences with that piece of cloth that female quarians have over their head. The burqa and the hijab are tight on the wearer's head and cover the neck, whereas that piece of cloth is more loosely worn and does not cover the neck from the front. I would also like to point out that almost EVERY if not all suits in the ME universe are tight. The quarians' enviro-suits must allow them to work comfortably as mechanics AND give them some level of protection in the event of an attack (if I remember correctly in Mass Effect: Ascension when Cerberus commandos attacked the Idenna, the enviro-suits worn by the ship's crew had shields). Finally, it is important to note that there is nothing in quarian culture and society to indicate that women have an inferior place in quarian society (two of the members of the Admiralty Board are female), which is common in Muslim communities. Regarding the quarian on Eternity, she is the exception - not the rule. The fact that she is flirting on Eternity means either that she does not intend to go back to the Migrant Fleet or that she is on Pilgrimage, however she is wasting her time instead of trying to complete it. Both possible cases are the exception and not the rule.--Bill565 17:32, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
 * Please cite a source for your claim that "female quarians have an extra piece of cloth over their head in order to make them look more attractive and to distinguish themselves from male quarians". No such thing is ever stated in any game, book, or comic. It is pure speculation and assumption. Next, please note that, while it is true that we currently have no indication that quarian women occupy any kind of inferior role, this is really not relevant to the issue at hand here. No one is saying that quarian culture is akin to the cultures of various Muslim countries or societies, merely that the quarian females wear garments that bear some resemblance to those worn by women in some Mulsim nations. As for your example pointing out that there are two women on the Admiralty Board, what of it? A woman was president of Pakistan from 1993-1996, despite the fact that women in Pakistan do occupy an inferior place in society. Many women serve in the parliaments and legislatures of numerous Muslim nations, most notably Afghanistan. Does that mean that women enjoy an equal role in those societies? No. Just because there are a few women in a prominent role in government does not mean that all women enjoy equal rights and freedoms. Finally, please provide a source for your claims regarding the quarian in Eternity. You state that she either does not intend to return to the Migrant Flotilla or that she is wasting time instead of completing her Pilgrimage. I have seen no evidence to support either of these contentions, which you state as fact. Please provide some evidence to support this or any of the other unfounded claims you state as absolute fact in your comment. SpartHawg948 19:23, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

To begin with, as it was stated before, if the piece of cloth bears any resemblance to any Muslim garment, that is the hijab, not the burqa. As it is stated in wikpeidia: ''A burqa is an enveloping outer garment worn by women in some Islamic traditions to cover their bodies in public places. The burqa is usually understood to be the woman's loose body-covering (Arabic: jilbāb), plus the head-covering (Arabic: ḥijāb, taking the most usual meaning), plus the face-veil (Arabic: niqāb).'' - clearly this has nothing to do with that piece of cloth. Also, I guess that you agree that the hijab has no functional similarities with that piece of cloth (since you presented no argument against that). In case that you do not, I have the following arguments:

1.Having women wear the hijab tells a lot about the society (women have an inferior place in society, religion has a very important role in society, etc) - there are no such signs in quarian society.

2.The Admiralty Board is part of the army - very few women, if any, have ever achieved the rank of admiral in any Muslim nation.

3.That piece of cloth does not conceal the female quarians' beauty, as in Muslim societies, because under it there is just their helmets, not their head. It merely hides some tubes that are visible at the back of male quarians' heads.

Therefore it is obvious that the hijab and that piece of cloth have no functional similarities. From this point and on, everything we say about their physical similarities is just plain speculation. It depends on the viewer's point of view. I have no facts to support my claims that female quarians have an extra piece of cloth over their head in order to make them look more attractive and to distinguish themselves from male quarians, but neither do you. So to sum up, the trivia should be corrected: the enviro-suit has not functional similarities with the hijab and everything about their physical similarities is speculation.

Regarding the quarian on Eternity, based on what she said and what she was doing, I speculated that she either does not intend to return to the Migrant Fleet or that she is wasting time instead of completing her Pilgrimage, based on the fact that Tali and Kenn (who were on their Pilgrimage when you first met them in ME1 and ME2 accordingly), were in a bit of a rush - they did not spend their time at bars flirting - and that most quarians do return to the Migrant Fleet

PS. I ended up talking about that piece of cloth and not about the whole enviro-suit, because the enviro-suit is just a suit that all quarians wear and almost never take off in order to have an extra layer of privacy - certainly it is incorrect to state that their whole enviro-suit resembles the burqa, because then everyone wearing an enviro-suit would be considered to wear some type of burqa. That piece of cloth is the whole point of this discussion, which according to some members of the community, resembles a type of Muslim garment. If anyone is claiming that the whole enviro-suit that quarians wear bears any resemblance to the burqa, that is a whole different story.--Bill565 22:12, January 31, 2011 (UTC)


 * So, no sources for those claims? Got it.
 * But, as I pointed out, quarian females wear several pieces of garment that quarian men do not. No one has yet addressed this. Nor has anyone addressed the fact that quarian women all are seen dressed like this. As for the Admiralty Board, yes, it is true that very few, if any, women have achieved the rank of Admiral in Muslim nations. However, as I pointed out previously, many have attained high positions in civilian governments to which the military of their nation is subordinate. And the Admiralty Board, while part of the military (though not, as you state, part of the army), is also a governmental body. And plenty of women in Muslim nations have attained similar positions. Last I checked, even in Pakistan, President outranks Admiral. There's a reason Musharraf named himself President after his takeover.
 * Now, as to your points about the hijab: Point 1) From what we see, and from what this very article will tell you, religion has a very important role in quarian society, and we do see clear differentiation between males and females. Point 2) Addressed above. Point 3) Based on arbitrary cultural standards which you are imposing upon quarians. When your people have spent 300 years in environment suits, and all you see of women is their suits, your standard of beauty and what is physically attractive may change, true? You are arbitrarily imposing your own standards and attempting to use them to disprove this.
 * As for the quarian in Eternity, I'm fairly certain that even quarians on Pilgrimage must take some time for themselves. We've met exactly three quarians known to be on Pilgrimage, which is hardly enough to determine norms. You also assume that she must be wasting her time by being in a bar flirting. Tali, when we first met her, was running around contacting criminals and attempting to sell information. Later, when we learned the whole story, it made sense. But until then, it could easily have been construed as wasting time. SpartHawg948 04:41, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

To begin with, female quarians do not wear several pieces of garment that quarian men do not (look at embedded picture). Also, there is nothing to indicate that religion plays an very important role in quarian society, as in Muslim nations.If you disagree please present specific examples. To conclude, I have my own theories about the purpose of that piece of cloth (for me it serves as an ornament - maybe it even resembles hair), and so do you. But that is not the point of this discussion. The point of this discussion is whether or not the trivia should be changed. And I believe it should be changed - the whole sentence about the burqa should be erased - because what is stated is simply wrong. The burqa and the envriro-suit have no similarities whatsoever.

PS. I did not address the issue of the quarian in Eternity, because as I said before, that is not the point of this discussion. However, I guess you are right. Besides this, I still believe that she is the exception and not the rule based on the quarians' behavior in general.--Bill565 12:41, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Remember the reverent opening prayer at the Admiralty Board? Where they thanked their ancestors? (Quarian religion, of course, being based on ancestor worship) The frequent utterances of "keelah" by Tali? (Keelah, now that we know more about the quarians, appearing to be a religious term) As for the image, female quarians wear several pieces that are distinct from those of men. I could have been clearer, as I originally intended to note that quarian women wear several pieces that men do not, with the pieces either being unique to women, or stylistically different, with the female versions uniformly covering more of the body than their male equivalents. The picture you provide demonstrates my point superbly. The women wear a garment on their shoulders that men do not, and the pieces over the heads, chests, and hips of the women are all more concealing than those worn by men. It's right there in your embedded image.
 * Again, given the clear cultural similarities (no one is saying they are identical, or that the role is identical, merely that similarities exist, which they do), I believe that the trivia is fine just the way it is. If you want to add something about how the "shawl" quarian women wear bears particular resemblance to a hijab, or something along those lines, feel free. But I see no reason to remove the trivia item. SpartHawg948 17:35, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Regarding the opening prayer: It is not a sign that religion has as an important role in quarian society as in Muslim nations. It is only a prayer. And I believe the form of ancestor worship that quarians practice is a borderline religion. It is a form of religion, yes, but it definitely is not as definitive as any human religion. Regarding the exclamation of "keelah": Like the prayer, it is not a sign that religion has as an important role in quarian society as in Muslim nations. It is not uncommon even for people who are atheists to exclaim in unusual situations phrases like: Oh my God! Regarding the differences between the female quarians' attire and the male quarians' attire: If you believe that a few minor stylistic differences between the attires of the two sexes make the female quarians' attire resemble the burqa, then that means that most female clothing in the world resembles the burqa in some way. These differences between the attire of the two sexes are similar to the differences between the attire of males and females even in the western world.

So, to conclude: Since you believe that the whole female quarians' enviro-suit resembles the burqa, then please present all your arguments.--Bill565 18:52, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Did I ever claim that religion was as significant in quarian culture as it is in Muslim nations? No. Nor did you ever as this. You said, "there is nothing to indicate that religion plays an very important role in quarian society, as in Muslim nations." You did not say that "there is nothing to indicate that religion plays as important a role in quarian society as it does in Muslim nations". Those are two totally different statements. However, we do have indications that religion is important to quarians in general, and to quarian culture as a whole. As for your belief that the ancestor worship practiced by quarians is "a borderline religion", this is explicitly disproved by the Codex, specifically the entry on quarian religion. And once again, you fall back on the red herring that "it is not a sign that religion has as an important role in quarian society as in Muslim nations.", despite the fact that this had never even been raised during the discussion until your last post, when you began stating it as if it had been one of my contentions all along! As for your next bit, again, you completely ignore parts of my comment that don't fit your preconceptions. As pointed out, quarian women wear garments over their environment suits that men do not, and the ones they both wear are much more concealing on women, contrary to your assertion of mere "minor stylistic differences".
 * You conclude by putting words in my mouth, summing up my position quite inaccurately by stating that I "believe that the whole female quarians' enviro-suit resembles the burqa". This is not the case. I never said that the "whole female quarians' enviro-suit resembles the burqa", merely maintained that the trivia item alleging "cultural and physical similarities" between the garb female quarians wear and the burqa has merit. Again, like your comments regarding religion and society, these are two very different statements. As for my arguments, they are already presented here, and have been for some time. Quite a few of them have gone unanswered by multiple challengers, including yourself. Feel free to peruse them at your leisure, though I don't see the need to repost what is already present on this very page and in this very thread. SpartHawg948 00:16, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

This discussion is not going anywhere - it is obvious that we agree that we disagree. So, I have a suggestion to make: ask for the opinion of the other three admins. Let them read our discussion and make up their minds on the matter at hand. If the majority of them take your side, I will accept their decision and never speak about the matter again. If the majority of them take my side instead, you will erase the trivia item.--Bill565 17:24, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Two of the other three admins have been absent for quite some time, including being unresponsive to emails when I have tried to contact them. It is for this reason that, when someone asks about site admins, we refer to the active admins, as there are actually several inactive admins (three, I believe, for a total of five admins). I'd be more than happy to ask Lancer1289 for his opinion, if you'd like. SpartHawg948 19:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like you to ask Lancer1289 for his opinion, but I definitely cant't ask you to erase the trivia item if he takes my side. After all, you are an admin. It's different when it is three admins vs two and when it is one admin vs one. So ask Lancer1289 for his opinion, discuss the matter with him and try to reach a decision. I will accept whatever you decide.--Bill565 20:11, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Well I have read, reread, and reread this conversation and I have come to a conclusion. What I see is points being presented on both sides, lack of providing what was asked, imposing personal opinions, presenting speculation, not challenging points presented, and ignoring information. I cannot see one reason from this conversation to remove the trivia item in question based on the comments I have read and the information I have presented above. The trivia has merit in its current form and from what I have read, not one thing has been presented to validate it’s removal. So to conclude, while I do agree that the similarities aren’t identical, there are similarities and I also believe the trivia has merit. I would also like to state that I have no desire to continue this conversation and since I was asked for my opinion, I have presented it. Lancer1289 00:06, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

I know I’m late to the party, but I do have some problems with this bit of trivia, if for no other reason than that by SpartHawg’s standards volus also wear what would be considered burqas. The general comparison is completely irrelevant as the primary garment (the enviro suit) is a necessity for quarrian survival – which can be substantiated by just about every in-game conversation about them. In particular the Tali-Shepard relationship conversation goes into this in some detail. Below I've attempted to address most of the core claims made, but I may have missed some and would be happy to address them if pointed out. Also I hope I'm doing this correctly on my first attempt to edit anything here, and I apologize for any mistakes I may have made, or will make.

The enviro-suit is simply a necessary, functional item, especially for a people living on 300 year old ships that have to be constantly maintained just to keep functioning and where a leak or malfunction could occur at any time. The suits are by the quarians considered to be a second skin (Source: Conversations with Tali). This makes any garments or cloth covering the suit akin to simple clothing or adornment, and certainly nothing approximating a burqa in its social or religious meaning.

SH: And can answer why, if quarians don't want to hide anything, they wear dark tinted >helmets that obscure the face?

Several possibilities: Tinted visors keep unwanted light or rather unwanted wavelengths of light out, which is potentially a critical survival issue in a space environment (blinding etc.). It could also be to protect quarrian eyes that evolved for the light on their homeworld, which would be particular to their atmospheric conditions and star. (Relevant science found several places, but on hand I had: Carl Sagan’s Demon Haunted World) Additionally, coatings which give a purple tint keep certain kinds of reflections from occurring, which is useful when using optics or equipment when having to view it through a piece of otherwise reflective material (source: Astronomy Cast Ep: 33 Choosing and Using a Telescope) Obviously these are all supposition, but they are much more in line with the functionality of the suit than any claim to modesty, which is also a complete supposition.

SH:”And why the women (and only the women, in a clear-cut cultural similarity) further conceal themselves with layers of fabric over the head?”

I agree with Kiadony who said: ''“I think it was done (by the game's designers) for beauty rather than modesty. Their look is complete, balanced and harmonic with fabrics over suits, not only on their heads. --Kiadony 15:42, September 3, 2010 (UTC)”''

This is simply a way to visually distinguish genders in a way that is familiar to the players - a visual gender cue, and reading more into is looking for patterns where none exist. Also, why do only women wear fancy hats to the Kentucky derby? Is that not also a clear cut cultural similarity?

SH:“No one is saying that quarian culture is akin to the cultures of various Muslim countries or societies, merely that the quarian females wear garments that bear some resemblance to those worn by women in some Mulsim nations.”

No more so than say the volus pressure suit does, or to use a classic, non-ME example, the Fremen stillsuit. As for the cloth layers see below. I think we at this point can safely agree that the suits in and of themselves can be dismissed as part of the argument.

SH:''”You conclude by putting words in my mouth, summing up my position quite inaccurately by stating that I "believe that the whole female quarians' enviro-suit resembles the burqa". This is not the case. I never said that the "whole female quarians' enviro-suit resembles the burqa", merely maintained that the trivia item alleging "cultural and physical similarities" between the garb female quarians wear and the burqa has merit. Again, like your comments regarding religion and society, these are two very different statements.”''

I have no opinion on the religious issue, I think it is at best tangential, as the enviro-suit bears no resemblance to the burqa, and the garment layers added to the enviro-suit at best can be said to resemble any number of different clothing styles. For example the visual/cultural similarity could be, due to the headscarf/covering resembling, with some degree of faithfulness, the following: a Russian peasant dress, traditional Roma clothing, a belly dancer outfit, numerous outfits from the Caucasus region and so on and so forth. It is in essence a purely subjective assessment. Personally I see the headdress as resembling a cowl, hood or just plain headscarf, and none of those options carry any kind of comparison with the burqa or hijab, they are merely aesthetic garments used to adorn oneself common in many cultures.

Additionally, Tali in her Shepard relationship conversations clearly states that the intimacy/privacy dichotomy is caused by them being forced to wear the suits, not that the suits and/or clothing are a choice because of cultural modesty concerns.

Thus my conclusion would be that claiming a visual similarity essentially means that any adorned space- and enviro-suits would have to fall under the same consideration and we should also append the trivia bit to the volus entry – which is patently absurd. It would be just as relevant to claim that the symbolism on the mercenary armors resemble medieval heraldry or NHL logos, which is ultimately their origin, but would hardly fall under the category of trivia; after all the Blue Suns’ logo kind of resembles the new TBL uniforms, no? I am quite certain that cultural or religious similarities are incorrect based on in-game conversations with Tali, but I will look up quotes on my next playthrough if people think it is relevant.

And finally, I strongly suspect that if it wasn’t for the numerous discussions relating to the dress of muslim women in Europe and America that occur with some regularity that this reference would even be made, the clothing is just as similar to the traditional Roma clothing or a bellydancer outfit, and the headdress reminds me more of an Egyptian or bedouin headdress yet that isn’t identified in the trivia section and those assertions are of equal merit to the one currently claimed.--Spaced Calamari 18:47, February 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Nope. Volus suits would not be considered burqas by my standard. After all, we've seen no indication that the suits worn by volus women are significantly different than those worn by male volus. This has clearly been a cornerstone of my position all along, so I can only assume you didn't actually read all my arguments. Most of the rest of your rebuttals are based on assumptions. Let's sample a few: "This makes any garments or cloth covering the suit akin to simple clothing or adornment, and certainly nothing approximating a burqa in its social or religious meaning." So, there's a difference between "simple clothing" and a burqa? A burqa is simple clothing. You also assume the social/religious meaning of the garments quarians wear, with absolutely no source to back your assertions.


 * "The tinted visors I'll allow, as I've made similar arguments elsewhere. The argument about women's 'shawls', where you agree with Kiadony, is pure opinion, nothing but, certainly with no sources to confirm it. Now, as for "This is simply a way to visually distinguish genders in a way that is familiar to the players - a visual gender cue"... I take it that the breasts and feminine voices were not familiar visual cues to distinguish genders in a manner familiar to players? Given that they clearly are, looking for additional reasoning behind the superfluous shawls (which are not needed to distinguish between males and females) is most certainly not looking for patterns where none exist. As for the facetious assertion about volus suits, we've been over this. There are a number of factors present with quarian suits that we don't see with volus suits, so of course I wouldn't claim that volus suits are similar in any way to burqas. Not unless we see clear differentiation between male and female garb and ornamentation, with the females uniformly wearing more modest and concealing coverings.


 * Finally, if you want to add trivia regarding the similarity of quarian garb to the clothing of the Roma or ancient Egyptians, or Bedouin, feel free. No one is stopping you. If you feel there is merit, and it hasn't been identified in the trivia section, go right ahead. SpartHawg948 19:03, February 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm probably going to regret speaking up, but saw this while passing through and felt something should be pointed out. Considering the artists said that they were using imagery of the Virgin Mary, the cloth on the head is most likely meant to mirror the open veil that Mary is traditionally depicted wearing.  Any resemblance to a burqa thereafter would be a natural result of combing an open veil with an enviro-suit. -- Shoggoth1890 07:15, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... I'm gonna need to see a source for that before being willing to accept it at face value, or before using it to make any changes to the article. SpartHawg948 07:18, March 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Irony... Check out the bonus disc that came with the platinum version.  Go to the quarian concept art section and listen to the audio commentary when he is speaking about the decided upon art. -- Shoggoth1890 07:39, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

Is the bonus disc with the platinum version the same as the bonus disc for the Limited Collector's Edition? Because I don't own the platinum version, and really don't want to buy another copy of a game I already have, even if it is the cheap Platinum Hits version. SpartHawg948 07:44, March 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Unfortunately I cannot say. My version of the collector's edition was stolen before I looked over the content of that bonus disc. -- Shoggoth1890 07:53, March 7, 2011 (UTC)

It's not gonna happen tonight, but I'll take a gander at it tomorrow and see... er, hear... what I can... hear. And, now that I mention it, it won't be till kinda late tomorrow. Monday is far and away my busiest day of the week. Non-stop go-go action from 7a-8pm. Stupid obligations... SpartHawg948 07:59, March 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * If the platinum disc and LCE disk are the same, he says it on the 6th concept art image. He starts off talking about wanting a parallel between the quarian hood and geth hood, then halfway through switches to the relevant part.  He's somewhat disjointed in his speech, so I had to paraphrase.  A more accurate paraphrasing is that he "drew upon iconic images of sort of a Virgin Mary".


 * On a related note, thinking of burqas made me think of the Qur'an, at which point I noticed how similar it is to quarian. Don't worry, not claiming there's any substance to it, just found it funny that all you have to do is throw AI into the Qur'an and you get quarian... don't even have to rearrange the letters.  Even the apostrophe is in the right place to be the dot of the i. -- Shoggoth1890 18:29, March 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * Bringing matter back to attention -- Shoggoth1890 06:12, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I totally forgot to go check the disc... Mondays are my busiest days atm, and it totally slipped my mind sometime during either work or class. Commdor was right, however, with his edit summary and undo. The removal of the info was both unilateral and inappropriate. At a minimum, when an undo is based upon a more-or-less ongoing discussion, as this one was, there ideally needs to be some form of notification and then a little time to let said notification sit and for any who wish to respond to do so. Just up and removing it with no notice or anything is no bueno. That said, I'll go back and peruse that disc right now. SpartHawg948 06:56, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * So, went and checked the disc, as I said I'd do, and it appears that the Platinum Hits and LCE versions do contain the same disc. As such, I'll concede that, while there are many similarities between the quarian female outfits and various traditional Muslim female garments, these appear to have been unintentional. However, (and this is why Commdor was right, and why we ask editors not to just up and remove things unannounced) given that we know exactly what the quarian female garb is based on (the hood, at least), we can just replace the current bit with new, accurate, and best of all, dev-confirmed (!) info, instead of just deleting it. SpartHawg948 07:12, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Inappropriate no. If i had done it smack dab in the middle of the conversation yes, but 10 days after the last post is reasonable.  Figured that if it had slipped your mind my edit would bring it back to your attention, and it could be edited away as needed.  If I had simply posted here asking if I could change it after that period after an unaddressed issue, it would have only added to the fire of the opinion people have of the "Spart and Lancer Wiki".  Believe it or not, my editing the article rather than posting here was my way of showing respect. -- Shoggoth1890 07:16, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Inappropriate yes. If your intent was, as you claim, to bring it back to my attention, surely the fastest and most effective way would have been to leave me a message, wouldn't it? I mean, then I'd even get a notification telling me to check my talk page! No one is asking you to post here to ask permission of me or Lancer. It's a courtesy to everyone at the wiki, and it's standard policy, as Commdor's edit makes clear. Commdor's undo, in fact, should be quite enough proof of the impropriety of the removal. And for the record, the best way to show me respect (though, if you want to avoid adding 'to the fire of the opinion people have of the "Spart and Lancer Wiki"', I can't see why you'd want to overtly show me respect! :P) would be to respect site norms and procedures, instead of arguing with me about them. SpartHawg948 07:22, March 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I was expecting more tooth pulling during this dispute, but I am pleasantly surprised. Some faith of mine is restored -- Shoggoth1890 07:24, March 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Why would there be more tooth-pulling? I'm not omniscient or omnipotent. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. And when the proof comes straight from the horse's mouth, so much the better. I'll gladly grab a seat and chow down on some crow, and will gladly make any needed edits myself, so my detractors can see I'm not the screaming, crying, "I'm always right and everyone else is always wrong and the wiki has to be just how I say" caricature they make me out to be. That said, there are site policies and procedures that need to be followed, as a courtesy to everyone. I observe these same procedures, leaving blurbs on talk pages before removing stuff (being a big fan of practicing what I preach), and having set the example, it's nice if other people can follow it and do things the right way, not the easy way. SpartHawg948 07:31, March 17, 2011 (UTC)

Legion provides solid explanation for tinted quarian visor?
Legion says that the planetary system of the quarian home-world orbits an old orange sun. according to the wikipedia article on stars, it would make it a lot less bright. Also, i think qurians have luminescent or highly reflective eyes, which maybe adds up. Since other species seem to be comfortable with the highly illuminated environment of the citadel (kasumi said something about that also), maybe the quarians are simply a galactic minority in this matter. i think that if any of the council races were nocturnal, the had to wear sunglasses on the presidium. Note: i never got legion to use this dialogue, just read it here. if this is not in-game content, please disregard. Note2: in tali loyalty mission, maybe the quarians keep the visor tinted because they do not want to show their faces to outsiders. Sargent cathka demonstrated that visor opacity could be toggled by one click of a button. Note3: i am aware that the real world reason for tinted visor is probably development cost rather then plot, but maybe there is a place for in-game reason also if base is solid enough?
 * Solid base? I think not. This is all based on extrapolation, speculation, assumptions, and while redundant, guesswork. The first thing I have a problem with is the "i think", which is a red flag for speculation follows this. The note about the eyes is nothing but guesswork which has no backup and no support from canon sources. The note about Council races, which are humans, turians, asari, and salarians, and probably Citadel races was meant, is again guesswork. As to the note about Tali's loyalty mission, that is just another piece of speculation as it is based on a guess and there is no support apart from a helmet of completely different make, probably different manufacturer, used for a different purpose, and is worn by another species altogether. As to the final note, we don't know why quarians have tinted visors so that is more guesswork. We have no evidence of plot reasons, development costs, or maybe BioWare wanted to keep the faces hidden. Remember that they could have shown a quarian face in ME2 with Tali's romance plot, but they chose not to.
 * To conclude, there is no base for this argument as everything is based on guesswork, assumptions, opinions, and speculation. As such it doesn't belong in the article because there is no fact behind this. Lancer1289 04:55, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fun fact totally unrelated to discussion at hand: Many welding helmets today automatically darken, not unlike the visor on Cathka's helmet. -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:00, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, well I guess if something works, why change it right. Still interesting, and it puts even more kinks into the argument above. Lancer1289 05:04, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

I understand, but what about the orange star? this is the only thing that make me write this, other things were just speculation, did not think it should be in the wiki. note about cathaka was just to show that this technology exist in game universe. also, this is talk page, so i also speculate. i don't think that speculation about development should be in wiki page, just if there is quote from bioware that it is true. you sound angry to me, and you only talked about speculation not ment to be in wiki, and not about orange star which is less luminous? does it not make sense that pepole from world with less bright sun will want tinted visor when in brighter places? even on earth during relatively short time for evolution, people from Norway and Sweden has less melanin in skin and eyes, and people in Africa more melanin, because evolution is reacting to environment. I put this in talk page to listen to your opinion, not force to anything. so here, i will try to ask you this questions: 1) does legion say star is old and orange in game? 2) is it a fact that stars that glow in orange are less bright then stars that glow in yellow? is evolution influenced by the sun? i think even there is in game fact that turians look armored because they evolved in atmosphere that do not block uv radiation but his is not like what i said about orange star. just respond to this please not early speculation.
 * And that still doesn't warrant trivia based on one thing. I don't know about the dialogue, not having talked to Legion in a while, but either way it is actually still speculation. Don't forget that some orange stars are brighter than Sol so saying that Rannoch's sun is less bright is also speculation as we don't know. Class K stars, which is the most logicla cassification for Rannoch's sun, can certainly be older than Sol, which is a Class G type star, as Class K's tend to have twice or three times the life span of Sol. However they are also brighter than Sol, see the picture In the Main Sequence section of that Star article, so saying that it is dimmer is also speculation. Lancer1289 05:39, September 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for this response, it is easy for me to understand when you use external reference as base for addressing what i have written. I can't call bioware, so i called my friend who is an academician in field of biology, and asked him his opinion: He said, that he could talk for hours about how it is inane to try and develop a theory about evolutionary process in complex life form, but he would not need to, because my mistake is even before. He says that in order to evaluate surface light condition, you must have a lot more data, mainly distance of planet from star, and composition of atmosphere. also, he said that "more orange than sol" term, if used by scientist, would imply that it is not even a K star, just closer to archetypal K than G2V (sol). I thank you for the good discussion on this matter. my speculation was like tiring to suggest a solution to an equation with 4 unknown variables, with only given info being surface temperature of X lower than that of Sol.

Quorian Marine Salute
I'm gonna try to confirm this, but it appears that quorian marines salute the Soviet (and I mean Red Army) way, not the one accepted in Western armed forces. Add the fact that they all pronounce "Captain" almost as "Capitan" (which is, among others, the russian pronounciation)...--95.165.148.192 15:33, October 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Explanatory: "... [in] the Russian military, the right hand, palm down, is brought to the right temple, almost, but not quite, touching; the head has to be covered." - Wikipedia
 * Well, can't say for sure about the salute (which sounds pretty close to the U.S. salute, actually), but I can pretty much say no to the "Russian pronunciation" of Captain. That seems more an issue of individual accents than it does overall pronunciation of the word. After all, as we have now seen, quarians have a myriad of accents, ranging from flat "American" accents to British accents to Eastern European accents. And I have to say, I really see no link between the quarian military and the Soviet military. The quarian military seems much more like the U.S. military, out of sheer necessity. They don't have the numbers to fight a Soviet-style war of attrition, or to follow Stalin's maxim that "quantity has a quality all of its own." SpartHawg948 19:01, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Probably unrelated but I'm not sure if anyone noticed this, but the Quarians have a lot of different accents that reflect human nationality accents, The most common being British, American. And Russian, Tali and a few others have a Russian-like accent.. I'm not saying the two are related, its just interesting to note--24.215.89.14 20:34, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Wow, I read all of what Sparthawg said -after the fact- that I posted my reply, I think the most obvious "American Accent" is Kal'Reegor's, the rest are Russian with a few british accents--24.215.89.14 20:37, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not hearing any Russian accents in there. Some Eastern European accents, sure, which would make sense given that the quarians seem heavily influenced by the Roma people, most of whom reside in (and are most commonly associated with) Eastern Europe. But not every Eastern European accent is a Russian accent. In fact, most Eastern European accents aren't Russian accents. The next distinctly Russian accent I hear from a quarian will be the first. SpartHawg948 22:34, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Don't get me wrong, I'm not one of the people that says "Soviets were Russian" etc etc. I only find they sound more like a Russian accent because my family is Ukrainian, and Ukrainian to Russian is like. Portuguese to Spanish, similarities but differences aswell.

Nonetheless, Most Slavic languages have similar accents if they are speaking english, but I've actually talked to Romanians before and I found that they sound quite a bit different from Polish, Russian, etc.

I generalized it because most of the people I spoke to with that kind of accent were in fact, Russian or Ukrainian.
 * Just to point out, in the interests of accuracy: Ukrainian and Russian are actually, linguistically speaking, less closely related than Castilian Spanish and Portuguese. Not that it matters, as the spoken language really doesn't factor in that much to the accent of the speaker, which is why, for example, there are so many different accents heard throughout the United States even when the same language is in use. THe language being spoken matters not at all, really. SpartHawg948 22:44, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

I thought I was the only one who had noticed similarities between the Quarians and the Russian language. I am not saying that there are many similarities but parts of the Quarian language seems to have been taken from (or at least inspired by) the Russian language. "Nar" for instance is how you would spell the Russian word "на", which means "at" or "on". "Vas" could be "вас" meaning "your" (i.e ship). Also the "sh" in "boshtet" sounds a lot like the Russian "ш" and "щ".

Quarian Male vs Female attire
I added something on the trivia about this but it was promptly removed.. Has anyone else noticed that Female Quarians wear "hoods" over their helmets, while Males do not?--Kastrenzo 20:45, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * And what of it? Yes the females we see wear hoods while males don't. It isn't trivia and it doesn't need to be mentioned because we don't need to state the obvious. Lancer1289 20:49, December 27, 2010 (UTC)


 * Fair enough it wasnt acceptable trivia material, but It wasnt an opportunity to flash your E-Penis at me, Im new to the Mass effect series and I had just noticed that now, I didn't see anything on the subject about it and I thought it was a minor detail that was unoticed. --Kastrenzo 20:52, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow you're incredibly rude. I merely point out that there was no reason to mention it, as it has come up before and was removed every time. Lancer1289 20:56, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

I do not mean to be rude, I simply did not take kindly to the fact that you brought your "judgement" onto the talk page, and furthermore the manner in which you told me it was not "Fit for the main page" my topic was not to complain about "Baww someone else keeps removing my stuff" Rather to TALK about it. I do not wish nor intend to make this into an argument, the last time I did that was on the Call of Duty Wikia, with someone less than 14 years old. --Kastrenzo 21:02, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * My judgement? As I stated this has been brought up before and was removed before. I simply stated that putting the obvious on the main page isn't adding anything and we do have basis for this. You do realize that as an Admin I do have to tell people what we do, and do not do here. You could have just asked why it doesn't get mentioned, instead you jump down my throat about it. I stated why it doesn't need to get mentioned, then you jump down my throat, then I proceed to say again why it doesn't need to get mentioned.
 * And just for refernce I'm over the legal drinking age in the United States. And shouldn't a 13 year old not be playing M rated games? Lancer1289 21:47, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

At what point did I accuse you of being a minor, I was stating that the last time I had an argument like this, it was with a 13 year old who plays too much Xbox. I was implying that I didnt want this to degrade to the point of that.

You do realize that this is just making it worse, been completley derailed, I'm not accusing it of being anyones fault, I think this went off the wrong track from a misinterpretation, I frankly wasnt even that upset about having my things deleted. I was moreso annoyed at the fact that you treated it like a complaint rather than a comment, in your first reply to this--Kastrenzo 21:51, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

And No, a 13 year old should not be playing M rated games. But there's nothing you can do about it, That is why I look down upon minor's playing games like that, and why I loathe having arguments with the ones who think they're smart. Which is why I dont want this to turn into something like that--Kastrenzo 21:53, December 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * I did not treat it like a complaint as you stated. I merely stated that we don't put obvious things in articles. Things on talk pages are treated with respect, I wouldn't be a good leader, as an admin, of this community if I treated anything like a complaint. That usually doesn't work out well when it comes to getting new users and more contributors. This is yet another reason I don't like text, or texting as there are thousands of ways just one person can interpret it based on a whole host of things.3
 * As to the age thing, since you stated that you previously had problems with a 13 year old, I simply wanted to state that I was mature and someone who could have a civilized discussion. Lancer1289 22:00, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

*Enters Yeah, so does anyone think that males could wear the hoods if they wanted to?Or...no? Also how many kuarians (sorry my letter next to w on the left is broken) have their own unike patterns on the fabric o' their suits? Also how does Tali have her hood stay in that shape? I could see the inside of her hood when romancing her.--Dagoth11 03:12, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Latin Roots
I noticed an edit war happening on this page concerning the possible connections to Latin roots in the name of the species, so I figured this would be a good place to discuss which words are correct and which ones aren't. I haven't studied Latin at all, so some insight on this would be very much appreciated. :P  (Talk)   (Requests)   04:24, March 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yup. There is a definite edit war going on at the moment. It concerns the translation of the word "quaerens". Both yours truly and the editor who originally added it maintain that quaerens means to search. On the other hand, another user maintains that it means searching, to which I replied that, no, the Latin for searching is quaestio. When pressed, said user produced this as a purported source, and demanded that I name my source or sources. I did so, demonstrating that the University of Notre Dame agrees that the Latin for 'searching' is quaestio. Now, I don't know about you, but personally, I'll take the University of Notre Dame over Bright Hub any day, even if it is "The Hub for Bright Minds". (In an aside, GO FIGHTING IRISH!) That's my story and I'm sticking to it. SpartHawg948 04:34, March 7, 2011 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry about the edit war, but if we're still discussing this I would like to point out that the Notre Dame site actually confirms my position by stating that "quaerens" is the present participle; i.e. the "-ing" form. --Lucius Voltaic 17:17, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I, on the other hand, was under the impression that the compromise, which came after the posts here (negating the concept of "still discussing") had pretty much resolved the issue. SpartHawg948 20:10, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, did it? Sorry, I didn't see the date. --Lucius Voltaic 20:18, March 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Having gone back and reviewed the info, I'll say that, in all fairness, the aforementioned compromise was reached a mere fifteen minutes (more or less) after the last comment here prior to today, so it's not like it was a huge difference in dates or something. SpartHawg948 20:24, March 10, 2011 (UTC)

Nose
Can we add that they have a nose? Because it can be vaguely but distinctly seen through the helmet. --Lucius Voltaic 22:00, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * If they didn't have one, then maybe, but considering they do have one, along with the elcor, humans, asari, turians, salarians, krogan, and drell, and I might have missed one or two, I'm going to say no as it is not a unique feature. Lancer1289 22:16, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was just going along the lines of the Biology section. Considering elcor, humans, asari, turians, salarians, krogan, and drell apparently have endoskeletons; humans, asari, turians, salarians, krogan, drell, and possibly elcor have lips and teeth; and pretty much everyone but batarians and hanar has two eyes; I'm not sure how they warrant inclusion and a nose doesn't. --Lucius Voltaic 22:34, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Then answer this, how exactly is a nose unique to the quarians? Or are the quarians the only species with a nose? Each one of your examples is very confusing as none of them support your statement what so ever.
 * There is no mention of endoskeletons, lips, or teeth for that matter in the elcor, human, asari, turian (teeth have a seperate mention as it is relevant), salarian, krogan, or articles. There is literally no mention of this in any article.
 * The batarian eye reference is both valid and relevant. It is something unique to their species, which currently no one else has. No other known species that we've seen has more than two eyes.
 * Hanar are similar, something unique.
 * I'm extremely puzzled why you brought examples that aren't present in the articles nor should they be. Mentioning common traits between species isn't talking about anything but the obvious and doesn’t warrant a place. Every species seen with the exception of the hanar, excluding he volus as we haven't seen one without the suit, have a nose. The two exceptions you mention are because it is something unique. So please answer the two questions I have proposed above and these two: Why should we add mention of a nose to this article or any other? And why did you bring examples to this argument that have no support in the articles? Lancer1289 22:52, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid you misunderstand me. Those body parts aren't in the articles on the other races&mdash;they are in the quarian article. I quote: "Quarians have an endoskeleton, lips, teeth, and two eyes..." I would be neither surprised nor upset if that passage were to be deemed non-notable, but if it is notable, then noses are no less notable. That's all I'm saying. --Lucius Voltaic 22:56, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably because they have been mentioned in other sources, and given the quarian situation, people may not know that kind of information. I would still oppose the nose however as it isn't hard to make out as you have already stated. Mentioning it just seems pointless while the rest does ahve some relevance to the article. Lancer1289 23:07, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Okay. Not sure I see the relevance of the rest, but whatever. --Lucius Voltaic 23:35, March 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * In one mission Tali'Zorah definitely mentions being able to block out horrible smells, so there is some way to sense smells.

Quarian naming conventions
Before I ask my question, I'll state a preamble to the aforementioned topic. In Mass Effect, Tali is known as Tali Zorah nar Rayya, but in ME2 she's known as Tali Zorah vas Normandy. So her name changes when she becomes part of another ship's crew, and if she were to leave the Normandy for another crew, the name would change accordingly. In a way, this is similar to a marriage, as a woman's surname changes (or is extended) when she weds. Assuming a quarian were only to change to another crew just the one time (acceptance from pilgrimage) wouldn't a double name be more acceptable? Say "Tali Zorah nar Rayya vas Normandy"? This would be to state that she was born on the Rayya and is part of the Normandy's crew, also similar to salarian naming conventions. I may stretch it a bit, but a good number of married women have double names (not to say that this supposed name convention only would apply to female quarian); Rebecca Romijin, when she was married to fellow actor John Stamos, she was known as Rebecca Romijin-Stamos, though that name's been reverted since her divorce, to use an example. Thoughts? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 16:03, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Tali's full name at this point would more than likely be "Tali'Zorah vas Normandy" or "Tali'Zorah vas Normandy vas Neema nar Rayya". We do know their names changes when they go from ship to ship, but to put the full name, is contrary to what we see in the books and games, where they just use their current ship name. Lancer1289 16:31, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Do Quarians have hair?
I'm really interested in how this species survives. How to they use the bathroom? What do their children/babies look like? Have they ever gone to war with major species? So many questions. --Slowrider7 19:07, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * We don't have answers to a lot of these questions. The only one we have is they went to war with the geth, but that's about it. Everything else we just don't have answers to. Lancer1289 19:10, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * The various idiosyncracies about the quarians and other races are such that it would take too much time to place the explanations in-game, though that may be rectified with in-game Codex entries. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 19:17, April 23, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, they do have hair. I just saw this interview with Derek Watts, and they mentioned how in ME1, Tali's hair was different then in ME2, where her hair is more mature. Here it is:

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/22/mass-effect-3-creating-garrus.aspx User:RevanSentinel 18:33, May 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually that is incorrect. If you listen more carefully, Derek was talking about the hood/veil she wares, which represents hair. He never stated that quarians had hair. Lancer1289 22:51, May 6, 2011 (UTC)

If quarians did have hair, wouldn't they have to periodically cut it to avoid being smothered within their own suits? I'm fairly sure they don't have hair for this reason. Tali&#39;s no.1 fan 15:19, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Reproduction
On "Mass Effect Answers" it seems to have been stated numerous times that quarians reproduce the same way humans do. I do not recall any evidence from in-game or the Codex which supports this. Am I missing something? Tali&#39;s no.1 fan 19:24, May 17, 2011 (UTC)


 * Didn't even know that wiki existed until now. All I can say is I also don't remember anything in the Codex or dialogue in either game that explains how quarians reproduce. It's possible there are some details in ME: Ascension, since it focuses on the quarians somewhat, but I haven't read that particular book so I wouldn't know. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:12, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Tali appears to have a belly button, so live births. Tali "mounts" Shepard in a recognizable sexual way, so we can assume that mechanics are similar. Just some observations I've made.Vault 815 03:05, May 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, that's about all they are: assumptions and observations. We have no way to determine if they are correct or not. Consider asari, for example: They too are observed to mount people n a recognizable sexual way. Does this mean that the mechanics of reproduction are the same there? Well, as it so happens, we know that they are not. SpartHawg948 06:18, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Well, we know Tali has a mother and a father and that the mother gave birth to her, since Shala'Raan said they linked suit environments for her birth. the actually method other than that is unknown. The only reason to say it is comparable to human reproduction is that no mention has been made of it. Species like turians, krogan and elcor reproduce in a manner comparable to humans, making their practises less interesting and not given as much mention. Differing practices like those of the asari, salarians or hanar are given focus. So there is no real proof just implication. Not enough to put in the article.--Ironreaper 08:54, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

Quarians link suits as a gesture of trust, not to reproduce. Tali says "It also signifies a willingness for ummm... intimacy..." In mass effect Ascension, it is mentioned that clean rooms are used for surgeries and reproductive activities.Vault 815 07:50, December 3, 2011 (UTC)

"Suit Wetter"
This is somewhat related to the "Do Quarians Have Hair?" topic.

Admiral Han'Gerrel describes Admiral Koris as a "whining suit-wetter". Does this imply that quarians do not have any sort of in-built waste disposal mechanism (I previously assumed they did)? If so, what does that imply about how they relieve themselves? I know this is a dodgy topic and one which relies entirely on speculation, implications, assumptions and deductions (none of which are grounds for adding anything to the article). I'm just looking for some ideas, here. Tali&#39;s no.1 fan 19:35, May 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not necessarily. Remember that while we hear Han'Gerrel say "whiny suit-wetter", that's actually a translation we're hearing. It could be that what he said doesn't translate directly, and whiny suit-wetter was the best the translation software came up with. Speculating here, I'd figured that what quarians did was more akin to what fighter pilots do. Fighter aircraft, after all, don't possess any sort of lavatory facilities. The pilots get bags ("piddle packs") into which to do their business in flight, with the contents being disposed of later. These bags work, to an extent, though it is possible to spill or wet the suit (and there's no provision at all for #2), and they only work until full, obviously. Suit-wetter could be relevant here. Zal'Koris' purported squeamishness could lead to excess urination past the capacity of the suit to support, hence suit-wetting. SpartHawg948 06:23, May 22, 2011 (UTC)


 * Actually, in Ascension it is mentioned that their suits can hold "waste" for several days, and then they empty them in any bathroom. --kiadony 10:11, May 22, 2011 (UTC)

But is that suit function that lets them last several days a permanent piece of the suit or is it one of the additions to the suits of those going on their Pilgrimage, since they are less likely to have constant access to toilets as they would on the Migrant Fleet?--Ironreaper 00:45, May 23, 2011 (UTC)


 * It doesn't say >.> However such feature exists, therefore Spart's guess might be right. --kiadony 15:38, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * To quote one of my favorite sci-fi characters ever, Bender Bending Rodriguez, aka Futurama's Bender, "Maybe I'm always right!" :P SpartHawg948 18:59, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Update: I checked it again. The quote is, "Our suits are equipped to store several days worth of waste in sealed compartments between the inner and the outer layers. The suit then can be flushed, ..." and what is noteworthy that the one saying it is Seeto, who wasn't on his pilgrimage yet. So apparently it isn't just something that those who on the pilgrimage have. --kiadony 18:46, June 12, 2011 (UTC)

Paste
Edible Paste

I suppose this is made of some veg stuff but is it edible to humans?
 * We don't know what it is made of or if it is digestible by other races. Lancer1289 22:39, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Theories...
After playing Mass Effect 2 multiple times, and watching playthroughs of ME1, I've become fairly intrigued by the quarians, and have formulated some theories about their biology, biosuits, and culture.
 * The hoods on the females are used to help differentiate gender, as males have "hoods", but they're looser, segmented, and don't cover nearly as much space. And, if the females didn't have hoods, the only other ways to tell their genders apart would be by the hips and the obvious.
 * Their luminescent eyes are likely due to HUD projectors, so that other races can tell the position of their eyes and thus appear more identifiable, and making it easier for them to relay their emotions (I remember Tali saying something about having to overdue body language to help convey emotions to non-quarians).
 * I'm fairly sure that they do have short-cut hair. Looking at some close ups of Tali in ME1, I was able to make out a ridge darker than the rest of the inside helmet, which are similar to "bangs" on a human. The ridge seems too low to be shading from her hood. And since quarians already resemble humans in many aspects besides their legs and internal and microscopic biologies, I'd say hair is most likely present in the species. More evidence for hair could be gleaned from the fact that they do have a few other mammalian aspects (live birth, mammary glands).
 * They probably do have human humanoid reproductive... procedures, judging by the hip structure on the skeletons we see in the ME2 mission where you save a stranded Quarian (I don't remember the name of the mission), and, as stated in an earlier discussion, Tali's behavior with Shepard. And Admiral Raan(? on spelling) stated that she helped deliver Tali, suggesting mammalian reproduction.
 * I do believe it is worth mentioning that quarians have the male/female shoulder/hip proportions like humans, but that they're slightly exaggerated. For instance, a male quarian has fairly wide shoulders and slenderer hips while a female quarian has slender shoulders fairly large hips.

This is all I'll post for now. They're just theories deduced from in game observations, but some could be worth mentioning. --Echo 1
 * This is not the appropriate place for something like this. Take it to the forums or a blog post as this is not the purpose of a talk page. They are not substitute forums. Lancer1289 06:01, December 29, 2011 (UTC)

quarian reproduction
there's something that's been bothering me for a while, a topic in the article that has me real fired up, i even got temporarily blocked by lancer for continually undoing his undo's. i figure that wasn't the way to get my point across as i can't help the wiki if im banned so ill follow procedures i guess

tali mentioned in mass effect 1 that quarians have to continually protect population stability, and to accomplish this they have a policy that parents are only allowed one child per couple. now before lancer or milkman come in and remove my post let me say that yes, tali said it, it's canon, i know. that's not my argument, my argument is that this must've been a mistake on the part of bioware to say that, because there's no possible way you can maintain a stable population if every two people are only replaced with one child, thats a population decrease.

i say let's change the sentence, or at the least add it in the trivia. because to me, if bioware were to have a typo in one of its codexes i would fix that. Señor action 07:46, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * First, let me set the record straight. You were banned for violating site policy on edit warring. Do not say it was that because that isn't what it was. You broke site policy and suffered the consequences for it.
 * Second, there will be no changes to the article because it does not matter what you say, the fact remains that the game and every single mention of the quarians in canon where this matters. It doesn't matter what you present because you have no proof whatsoever to back up your claims that it is a "mistake on the part of bioware [sic]". It is BioWare's universe and if they say it works, then it works. This wants us to ignore canon and impose what you want into the article. We will not do that. I am guessing that it never crossed your mind that oh I do not know, BioWare actually knew what they were doing? From you continuing to push an issue that is dead, I am guessing not.
 * I also should point out that your idea of how things work here is so off from how we actually work, that you need to figure it out. The Codex is copied VERBATIM from the game, with no alterations and no changes. If that is what the Codex says, then that is what it says. We do not correct what we think is a mistake. This is not an issue, this is telling us to ignore canon and say what you think Tali should have said. We again will not do that. Lancer1289 07:57, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * on your first sentence, i said i was blocked for continually undoing your undo's didn't i? isn't that as you call it edit warring? which according to you is breaking policy? i said what happened but you disagree that what i said but anyway.
 * you and i are never gonna agree on this it seems, but i encourage you to think the situation of population through and notice there is no possible way to maintain a population with tali's comment. and to your attitude towards staying with what bioware writes, i give you this situation, say this is a sentence in the codex "the home stra of the planet xoom has gone through many changes to its surrounding as the inhabitants try to use technology to extract energy from the star" your saying that you wouldn't change the word "stra" even thought in this context it's clearly supposed to say star?
 * again i really can't do anyhting to change the article, that is my idea of how to make it better, buuuut since you're the one in a position of power all i can do is petition. but with you blasting me the way you just did nobody will ever get to hear my idea, but tha's fine, that's just fine. Señor action 08:11, February 19, 2012 (UTC)
 * No, that is not what this is about, and the attitude is not helping your case. What this is about is you wanting us to ignore canon information, and use your information to replace it. A "petition" will not work here because if we change what you want changed, we would have to throw canon out the window. We are not going to do that. We will not ignore canon information because of what you want and because of what you say. Public opinion will not cause us to ignore canon, which is again what you want us to do. Tali's comment stands until BioWare says it was a mistake because you saying it is a mistake, is not proof in any sense of the word.
 * And as to your situation, the fact you asked that is showing that you do not know site policies. We actually would not correct that because that is what the Codex says in the game, then that is what we say here. Codex entries, SB dossiers, and planet descriptions are just a few things that we copy verbatim from the game. This is written into site policy and on individual pages. Lancer1289 08:24, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * k so that clears up the typo thing.
 * that's fine man if you disagree with math that's fine, like you said it's you guy's policy to copy things straight from the game so that settles that. like i said it pretty much up to you how this site looks since you seem to have last word on this site "im going by the number of edits you've made" so if you dont wanna add it that's cool. i just wanted to add my idea. ill just find something else to comment on. Señor action 08:31, February 19, 2012 (UTC)


 * so no one has an opinion on the tali sentence about reproduction? Señor action 20:36, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * Take "opinions" elsewhere as that doesn't belong on talk pages. Lancer1289 21:05, February 21, 2012 (UTC)
 * my man can you stop interrupting every comment i make here?! i already know you disagree with well established mathematical rules, let me hear someone else's opinion to see if i can get a better view on the subject. and it is opinion, but it's opinion about information regarding the upkeep of the article, im not here discussing wether quarians look better in yellow than purple, i'm here discussing information on the article. Señor action 21:12, February 21, 2012 (UTC)