User talk:SpartHawg948/archive7

We have been acknowledged.... by the ME lead writer!
Hey Spart,

This is a brand new interview with Mac Walters:

http://www.craveonline.com/entertainment/comics/article/nycc-2010-mac-walters-talks-mass-effect-114245

There is something... interesting that is waiting to be read on the second page of the interview. ;) Fiery Phoenix 20:09, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Darn! I'm just about to step out for a few minutes too! And now I'm so tantalized! Well, I'll have to wait till I get back... SpartHawg948 20:14, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I wonder how heavily they rely on us. Hopefully not too much. I'd hate to think an error here could snowball into a continuity break in an actual branch of the franchise. Also, I wonder if we can deduce the main character in that upcoming 8-page comic Walters mentioned (what I assume to be Mass Effect: Inquisition). -- Commdor (Talk) 20:29, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well that is just plain awesome! Thanks User:Fiery Phoenix for bringing this to my attention! You, sir, are the man! :) SpartHawg948 20:42, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

No problem. The interview was posted on the official BioWare forums literally an hour ago, so not many know about it just yet. Walters' acknowledgment makes me proud of myself and all of you who have contributed to the Wiki. Fiery Phoenix 20:47, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed! This is pretty epic. Finding out that they use us as a source from time to time! And that, in the opinion of the Lead Writer of ME2, we are one of the best sources of ME info out there! Talk about awesome! SpartHawg948 20:50, October 13, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wow I step out for all afternoon and look what I miss. Great interview and to know that they even come here more often than I thought is something great. Nice find. Lancer1289 23:02, October 13, 2010 (UTC)

When Dragon Age 2 was announced, the Dragon Age wiki got interviews with a couple of the head guys on the DA2 team. Since we know that Walters has read us and Christina Norman (lead gameplay) apparently has an account here, perhaps when Mass Effect 3 is officially announced or revealed in some way it would be worth asking BioWare/EA to let us ask some of the leads some questions sourced from the wiki's users. I'd already planned on bringing up this possibility later on, but hearing that the lead writer has looked us up I suspect our chances of getting their attention are considerably higher than I originally thought. JakePT 07:16, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be pretty cool! SpartHawg948 07:21, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah that sounds like a good idea. Lancer1289 12:38, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Apologies for invading your Talk Page, but this reference is pretty cool, and Jake's idea above for closer contact with some Bioware people is awesome. As for the character Walters mentioned, given the name (Inquisition) and the fact that the character was thought to be dead (but is still alive), can I suggest Executor Pallin? I know Walters said 'assassinated' instead of 'killed by the geth', but I'm having trouble recalling other notable characters that would fit an action comic and have a slightly ambiguous status (given that Pallin was meant to be 'killed' in cut ME2 content and then was included in Retribution). Bronzey 13:48, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm trying to puzzle through this one too. Pallin isn't a bad idea, but I'm leaning more towards Barla Von at the moment. SpartHawg948 18:28, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Barla Von was my first thought too. It's conceivable that they knew he was alive (I doubt their 'bible' includes cut content), wrote a comic about him, someone remember the VO they recorded about him dying and a quick look at the wiki simply served as a reminder that the content was cut. However, Barla Von being the star of a comic seems a bit odd, though maybe he's not the 'star'. On the other hand it could be a character who had a news report recorded about their death but was cut earlier and wasn't even on the disk.JakePT 02:27, October 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Walters doesn't specify in what role this character will be appearing though, whether it's the star of the comic or a supporting character He just mentions that it's a "specific character". I can't really think of anyone else that fits the bill, but that's just going off the top of my head... I haven't really done any research or anything. SpartHawg948 02:35, October 16, 2010 (UTC)

Confirming voice with VA themselves
In trying to figure out who voiced the Shadow Broker I looked at the credits and noticed Steve Blum. I suspected he might have voiced the Shadow Broker so I sent him an email (address is on his website) asking who he voiced, since we like to note who voices who here and the actors aren't credited for their roles in the DLC.

I got a response back today, he said he couldn't remember, and that he checked his booking sheets because he usually writes the character names on them, but for some reason he didn't this time. He's graciously offered to look at some videos for me to see if he recognises the character. So I've sent him videos of each of LotSB's male characters.

What I want to know is how to make this an acceptable source for the information. I wouldn't necessarily be comfortable publishing the email chain on the wiki as a reference, and I doubt he'd like that either, so I was wondering if it would be enough to just forward you the reply I get (I asked permission to do this if need be).JakePT 07:06, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with that. After all, it's still not what I'd call independently verifiable. Anyone should be able to determine for themselves whether he provides the voice, which can be best accomplished by using a verifiable website or something similar as a post. I'd be no more comfortable accepting an email that only you and I can verify than I would be using an email that only I had (as I made clear when discussing my email correspondence with Drew Karpyshyn, seen here). SpartHawg948 07:19, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why does all the intersting things in the last few days seem to happen when I sleep. Anyway I'd have to agree and I think I stated it myself somewhere as well, but we do need something that is independently verifiable. Lancer1289 12:41, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Writing
Hey, Spart. I know this may be kind of an odd request, but I need you to read something. I'm kind of getting into writing a sci-fi story, and I need some feedback on it. The only people who have read it are my family, and I need someone who will give their honest opinion. I respect your opinion a lot, so I figured I'd give it a shot. If you have the time, the story is located here. If you can, just leave a comment on the site, or on my talk page here, whichever one is easier. Anyone else who sees this and wants to read it, I'd really appreciate some feedback. Thanks. :) --Effectofthemassvariety 08:42, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here's the deal: I will be more than happy to read and comment, but it's not going to be tonight. I can more than likely manage it this weekend though. So yeah, if you don't mind possibly having to wait a few days (though not more than a week) to hear back from me, I'll be more than happy to take a looksee! :) SpartHawg948 08:48, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Really, that would be great. I didn't expect it to be tonight anyways. It's just that I'm going to be getting my wisdom teeth out tomorrow morning, and I guess I'm gonna be loopy for a couple days, so I thought I'd put the requests out now before I forget. :P Whenever you get the chance, that's fine. --Effectofthemassvariety 09:00, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh! Fun fun, that'll be! I had mine out... I guess it was about ten years ago or so now. (Wow... now I feel old!) Good times, that was. I had all four removed, so my mouth was all kinds of bloody and sore and stuffed full of cotton and all that good stuff. And then the swishing with salt water, which is horrible for me since I have a super-aversion to the taste of salt water, and no food but broth for the first day or so, and then cold mashed potatoes for the next few days... good times. I don't envy you, but I hope it goes well! SpartHawg948 09:32, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm not lovin life right now. It's painful, and I hate having gauze in my mouth. Having my entire lower jaw and tongue entirely numb was not a very fun experience either. I guess it went better than I thought it would. In fact, I got the first season of the awesome Lie to Me on DVD as a pity gift, so I guess it's not all bad. :) --Effectofthemassvariety 22:16, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Huzzah! So at least you get some entertainment for your recuperation. Pity gifts are always nice! Well, here's wishing you a speedy recovery! :) SpartHawg948 22:18, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm healing up fine now. Though there is still some minor bruising, it's getting better. Anyways, I just thought that I'd thank you again for your input, and suggestions on my story. After correcting the few grammatical errors I had, I took the advice of both you and Lancer about adding more character development and dialogue. I just finished an updated version of the chapter which included a bunch more of each suggested addition. I also clarified some minor parts that may have been confusing. All in all I think it's a lot better now than it was yesterday. Thanks for taking the time to read it, and I'm glad that you think it has potential! :)--Effectofthemassvariety 22:37, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not a problem! Always happy to help out! And the best part is, you know me... I'll call a spade a spade. Or, to borrow a line from one of my favorite radio hosts, I'll be the one who calls the baby ugly. If I say something has potential, it's not because I'm trying to be nice or anything, it's because I mean it. And your story has potential. SpartHawg948 04:30, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Exactly! That's one of the reasons I came to you, aside from the fact that you know the genre. I wanted honest criticism from someone who knew what he was talking about. All I kept getting were comments by my family, and then there was this one girl who commented on the story who said it wasn't good, but she wasn't a fan of the genre, and she didn't even bother reading the whole thing. Needless to say, her comment didn't carry much weight with me. Now I know, and I've even made it better. --Effectofthemassvariety 20:28, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

FAs
Since I know I missed something here, but I have a quick question and I hope you can indulge me in my curiousity. On the talk page where the FAs are kept, you said that the templates for FA 28 and FA 29 were created by non admin types, but even then I can't seem to find them. So I have to ask, what where those articles since they were deleted? Lancer1289 12:46, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * FA 28 was first created as an FA on the Normandy SR-2 (which later became FA# 39). Since proper procedure had not been followed during its creation and since the article itself did not meet the standards at the time (still being rather heavily edited and in need of some cleanup), it was deleted. Several days later, another editor, again circumventing the process, used the template to create an FA on the Cerberus Network, which in addition to the issues surrounding its creation, isn't really that visually appealing. It does meet the bare minimum image requirement, but I tend to go for articles that meet and exceed the bare minimum. So it was deleted a second time.
 * Now, as for FA 29. The same user who made the Cerberus Network FA created this one using the Collectors article (which later became FA# 36). In addition to circumventing proper procedure, this article at the time was being heavily edited, and as such had issues with spelling, grammar, and tidiness. As such, it was also deleted. Now, the cool thing is that, after deleting the second FA 28 and FA 29, I had a nice and extremely constructive conversation with the guy who created them that actually led to the establishment of the new FA policy. So some good definitely came out of all that. SpartHawg948 18:27, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So it did. Thanks for indulging me an interesting story to say the least. Lancer1289 18:36, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Happy to oblige! :) SpartHawg948 18:38, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Timeline event
Okay, keyboard-coordination problems aside... I wanted to add this event recently explained by the Cerberus Daily News to the Timeline, but I'm unable to improve upon the wording. I think this is an important event because it almost prevented the Alliance from getting an embassy, but however I write it, the only anchor for the date of the event is how long Johnstagg was incarcerated. The assassination attempt itself, the event I want in the Timeline, really could have happened at any time between 2157 and 2164. So, would it be too much to assume that Johnstagg had a speedy trial after the attempt and we could reasonably say that the attempt happened in 2164?

This is the current version of what I'd add. If you're fine with adding this, let me know if you'd word anything differently. Otherwise, I'll scrap the whole scheme.

2164 CE


 * Ivor Johnstagg is sentenced to 21 years in prison for attempting to assassinate the volus ambassador to the Citadel, Venta Tox. Although Johnstagg claims to be acting on behalf of the radical human political party Eternal Earth, no connection is found and Johnstagg is diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. Backlash from the assassination attempt jeopardizes the Systems Alliance's bid for an embassy on the Citadel.

-- Commdor (Talk) 21:25, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't know about Spart, but I have to say that this should go into the timeline. I also can't see on how the wording can be improved, but given the nature of the event, even though the Alliance did get an embassy, I fell that it is worth noting. Lancer1289 21:33, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict - You'd know what I felt if I had the ability to post it) You had me right up until "assume". At that point, the alarms started going off. Let me ask you this... how often do trials for crimes of this magnitude and import reach a speedy verdict? Example: John Hinckley, Jr shot President Reagan on 20 March, 1981. He was immediately taken into custody. His trial was not concluded until June 21, 1982, over one year later. The guy who tried to kill President Bush in 2005? Not sentenced until 2006. And that was in Georgia. He is still awaiting trial in the United States, pending extradition should he be released from prison in Georgia. Two guys tried to kill President Truman in 1950. They weren't sentenced till 1952. So yes, it would be too much to assume a speedy trial, and therefor to also assume the attempt happened in 2164. I'm cool with pointing out when he was sentenced, but not with making assumptions about when the attempt actually occurred. SpartHawg948 21:36, October 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * So it's acceptable to add this event as I've written it above? I was worried someone might object because the date is about Johnstagg more than the actual assassination. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:47, October 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * So what if they object? F 'em. If we had a date for the attempt, we'd include it. We don't though. SpartHawg948 21:50, October 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Gotcha. Adding now. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:54, October 15, 2010 (UTC)

Morality Points in Walkthoughs
I feel that should say that there are morality points listed in other walkthoughs. As they can be gained in the walkthroughs, listing them in the walkthroughs seems relevent. Granted they are scattered around, and not listed everywhere, but I figured I should provide a few examples. There is a listing in As you can see there are quite a few missions where morality points from decisions are listed and I do feel that listing them in walkthoughs are ok becuase people may want to know that information for a decision. The moralty guides are a full collaberation of all of the morality points in the game, but searching through that text, IMO, is sometimes hard. While using CTRL-F is a good way around that, there are other things there are also not in walkthoughs. Personally I do think that morality points in walkthroughs are ok, but I just felt that I should point out that there are plenty of places where it is already listed. Lancer1289 02:59, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Dossier: The Professor: Second paragraph of "The Slums of Omega" section
 * 2) Dossier: The Justicar: Third Paragraph of the "Starport" section
 * 3) Miranda: The Prodigal: Second paragraph of the "Dock 94" section
 * 4) Tali: Treason: 3 places
 * 5) Second Paragraph of "The Rayya" Section
 * 6) Second paragraph of "The Alarei
 * 7) The results of the Trial under the "Return to the Rayya" section)
 * 8) Samara: The Ardat-Yakshi: Second to last paragraph of the walkthrough
 * 9) Thane: Sins of the Father: 3 places.
 * 10) Bullets in the "Finding out the Target" section
 * 11) Second Paragraph of the "Following Talid" section
 * 12) In the paragraph under "The Reunion" section)
 * 13) Legion: A House Divided: Under the Mission Summary Section
 * 14) Reaper IFF: In the Paragraph of the Normandy section
 * When doing my research, I employed a simpler approach. I merely went to the bottom of the page, clicked the link to the next assignment in the series (Noveria: Peak 15, an assignment with substantial morality points), and looked. No morality points were listed anywhere. As such, for the sake of consistency, I removed the ones that were added. Why have them for one of the assignments in a chain but not the others? I disagree that we need morality points in the walkthroughs, as this (to me) seems to be getting too technical and bogged down with details. When I read a walkthrough, I don't want numbers scattered around all over the place, and some assignments have quite a few morality choices. That's my thinking, but again, my reason for removal was based simply on consistency. SpartHawg948 03:08, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm, fair point, neither do have points to they. One thing I noticed about when morality points is they get added in bursts or, like this one, one part at a time as usually the big ones get listed first, and as that is the biggest one in Noveria: Geth Interest, it was added first. Some missions and assignments don't have any at all, and some do, but I have never removed moralty points becuase, while yes I also hate getting bogged down in techinal stuff, I it as listing relevent information. Some people may want to know what they will get from a decision as they are reading it, but again that's me. There is a great inconsistency on when points are added and where they are listed, but I don't remove them. I don't see it as a problem with listing the points for the reasons I stated above, and I don't remove them when they are added as I see it as relevent information. I can see why you removed it, consistency is nice isn't it, but it appears that we disagree on this. Lancer1289 03:20, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I just don't see the reason to list the morality points in the articles and have the Mass Effect Morality Guide and Morality Guide (Mass Effect 2) pages. Nor do I see the need to add morality points piecemeal to walkthroughs. If all the morality points for that particular assignment had been listed, I may have been more reluctant to remove them. This is not the case. As walkthroughs tend to deal with the bare bones of the assignment, it isn't possible to list all the points without a substantial re-write. (Quick example - the Noveria: Geth Interest article makes no mention of Rafael Vargas or his associated morality options, while the Mass Effect Morality Guide does). As such, I'd rather list them all in one location than break them up and only list some of the totals in each walkthrough page. SpartHawg948 03:30, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm fair point, so how do you think we should proceed on this issue. Should we just undo any futher edits of adding morality points and grandfather in all current ones. Or do you have another idea because that's the best I got right now. Lancer1289 03:37, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * That'll work for now. Ultimately something more long-term will need to be devised, and as of now I'm leaning towards removing all the morality points from the walkthroughs altogether, but for now this will do. SpartHawg948 03:48, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Alright then, I guess we'll come back to this at another point. Lancer1289 03:54, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hey, question/top tip
Since you helped me recently, and are one of the more active people around here, I have a question/suggestion. I recently bought Mass Effect 2, and I activated my Cerberus Network card in-game, after installing. That should give me the right to a few free DLC packs. But where do I get them? I registerd my MF2 game with my EA online account, and logged on to the Biowere site. I couldn't find a link to a downloading location, exept a place to activate your cerberus network code. Tried that, but it said: "code used" wich would seem positive. But I still dont have the free DLC packs, and I find that frustrating.

^that was the question part. Where do I find the free DLC packs? And now for the tip part: If I can't find it, there is a good chance that others can't either. Is it an idea to add a section of the DLC page, with how to obtain these free items?

I hope you can help me,

Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 07:47, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... are you perchance using the PC version of the game? Because I have absolutely no experience whatsoever with it. I'm strictly an X-Box 360 gamer, and the DLCs are pretty darn easy to find on a 360.
 * Actually, after a little bit of research, I may, repeat may, have an answer. It appears you can download DLC here, and download the free Cerberus Network DLC here. Again though, having no experience with this, it's just a guess. I do sincerely hope it helps though. As to the tip, if you can't find it, it may indeed be worth it to add a section to the page, but we'll cross that bridge if we come to it. SpartHawg948 07:55, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I am using the PC version of ME2. And the second link you provided forces you to redeem your Cerberus network code to gain acces to the DLC. And I'll give that a try when I get home today, but I tried that already yesterday. We'll see how it goes. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 08:06, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm clueless when it comes to the PC version. I would recommend asking User:Lancer1289. I'm pretty sure he uses the PC version and the X-Box 360 version, so he should know. SpartHawg948 08:11, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * On ME2 for the Xbox and Dragon Age for PC there's a downloadable content link in the main menu. ME2's is something along the lines of 'New Content Available' if there's stuff you haven't downloaded yet. It should all be in there, with the Cerberus Network stuff showing up as free.JakePT 11:44, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I found it. If you try to activate the code at link 2, given by SpartHawg, I can't anymore, as I activated it in-game. But at that site you can vieuw your profile. There is a button there that says your registered game promotions. If you click that, you get to a download screen where you can download the freebies. And I'm downloading now. It will take a while, but I got them. Thanks! I'll leave it to you if you want to add it to the DLC page. Arnout aka The Emperors Angel 15:18, October 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just me saying that I don't think we should add it to the DLC page as we don't have a link for Xbox 360 users. I do use PC and 360 and frankly I have never had a problem getting the free or paid DLC for either. I question the need for either link, but that's me. Lancer1289 16:06, October 18, 2010 (UTC)

All's quiet
Since I know you have school during the evenings tomorrow, and while I do as well, I'll have my laptop so I'll be around. I'm thinking that I'll regret giving him the definition of edit warring, but as you also stated somewhere, if someone edits after the one day period passes, and does the exact same thing, you'd still classify that as edit warring. Persoanlly I think Sentenal01 is on extrememly thin ice as it is, given violations of the communigy guidelines on muliple ocasions, and repeated counts on some of them. Personally I think he's been given enough warnings, but I figure that I should get our opinion on how to proceed from here. Lancer1289 05:52, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

Also I'm about to log off for the night, as it is 1 am and I need to be up for class in the morning. So enjoy your night Spart, and I'll probably read your response in the morning. Lancer1289 06:06, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * (sigh... edit conflict) Yup. For most of the day tomorrow, I'll be in either Environmental Health and Justice or Introduction to Environmental Law. And then when I get out of class, it's on to Fallout: New Vegas! :D What I'm thinking is just see what happens for now. If the edit warring continues on another day, we can go from there. Maybe one last warning, but then again, maybe not. This guy does like to use some nasty language from time to time. So we'll see what happens. It was odd too because, while this whole thing was going on, I was also having a rather heated discussion with someone on my talk page on another wiki. It was equally frustrating, but for a different reason, and oddly enough, both Sentenal01 and the other user have up at around the same time. SpartHawg948 06:20, October 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the edit conflict but I figured I should tell you that I'd be off. Anyway I saw something about that other user on the Stargate wiki, and if there's more, then please do provide a link. That is no way for someone to behave and personally I think he's acting like a three-year-old. I haven’t seem most of his edits, but given that he has over 6,000, he should know better. I really can't see what grounds he has for a lawsuit, but then that's his money and time to waste.
 * Anyway because I'm in class all day, I won't get New Vegas until tomorrow, :(, so maybe you can provide a quick review. Anyway I hope you enjoy your classes as those sound interesting, however today I have Aural Skills, Game Development II, and Serious, Simulation, and Game Design today. Also today's topic in the last one is Military Games, just thought you'd find that interesting.
 * As to him, I'll just have to see if he comes around today and then I'll just have to see what he does. Also I don't think they are the same person, if that is what you were implying, considering Sentenal can actually use proper grammar, I just think that people like this usually show up later at night because they think that no one is on so they can do what they want. But that's me. Lancer1289 12:50, October 19, 2010 (UTC)

As you can probably tell from my talk page, I had a long day. So many things it was driving me crazy at a point. Needless to say that he is now on extremely thin ice. If you want to sort through that, then I wish you luck as even I had problems following it at times. I don't know what you would have done, but I think I did my best. Lancer1289 04:55, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * I tried looking at it, but got lost partway through. I did notice that charming WikiClams guy, though. SpartHawg948 04:57, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes I did notice him as well, kind of hard to miss those comments, and left him a note on his talk page about it. Personally I think it blew way out of proportion and those two who came in at the end didn't help matters. Lancer1289 05:00, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I was glad to see that Arbington popped in a time or two. He can really be a calming influence in situations like that. May I ask one thing, though? Again, I only got part-way through the morass that the thread turned into, but did I see something about you calling an abbreviation (I think it was JFC) crude or offensive language in violation of site policy? If so... well, suffice to say that I have to totally disagree. Abbreviations like that are innocuous and harmless. I can maybe see saying that about something like "STFU" or something, but not anything like JFC. If, however, that isn't what happened at all, and I am totally misinterpreting the situation, I apologize in advance. SpartHawg948 05:05, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes it was nice that he popped in. As to the abbreviation, it was FSC, and he stated clearly what it meant, multiple times, "for Christs sake". It's hard to find in that mountain of text. That is what he continutally referred to that as and given what it stood for, crude language, it was inappropiate, well to me, maybe not to you. I believe the term I kept using was something you stated about keeping things "G" rated, nad that is clearly over the "G" rated category. Lancer1289 05:11, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... I went back and re-read the relevant parts, and he never actually did say "FCS means for Christ's sake" or anything. The one time he did say what it meant, he actually gave numerous meanings, the first one having to do with fried clams. As such, I'd still have to say I agree that FCS is not in and of itself offensive, and FCS would almost certainly be allowed in a G-rated movie. But whatev... tempers were flaring and it was just one of those threads... so no harm done. SpartHawg948 05:16, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * It was more of those things that you have to be there to really get what happened. However, maybe I can shed a little more light. I kept calling him on crude language, and then he said this, "FCS (there, are you happy now?) is not a offensive term, and you haven't provided proof that it is." You really have to read what was in the previous posts, this one is time stamped "Sentenal01 22:22, October 19, 2010 (UTC)", to see what it meant, and given how he used it in subsequent posts, it really only could mean one thing. Maybe not to you, but to me I knew what it meant. Lancer1289 05:22, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, no, I read that too. Again though, it's an abbreviation. Three letters. You know what it was likely intended to mean. But the abbreviation itself was in no way a violation of site policy, nor did he ever state clearly what it meant, not even once, much less multiple times. I'm not trying to make an issue of this, which is why I tried to say "no worries, it was one of those days" before. But if you do want to keep this going, then whatever. That works too, I guess, though it really isn't what I want. FCS is not crude or offensive, not per the policies this site has operated under for the entirety of its existence. One person being offended by an otherwise innocuous statement or comment doesn't count, as then anyone could call anything they wanted offensive. I could say that you saying "You really have to read what was in the previous posts" is offensive to me, and who would be able to question it? That is why a blanket standard was adopted, the easiest and most readily available standard for everyday usage being the MPAA rating system. And again, FCS would be fine in a G-rated film. SpartHawg948 05:31, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair point and I also don't want to make an issue of this either. I do have to admit that an abbreviation could mean something to someone, while it means something completely different to someone else. Anyway I'll let this go with what you said before, it was one of those days. Lancer1289 05:37, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is why I'm leery about calling abbreviations offensive. They're so open to interpretation. Again, if it was one where the general consensus (on and off the wiki) is that it is offensive (see my earlier example), that's another matter entirely. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. I mean, Arbington (who was pretty much a textbook "neutral party" there) seemed hesitant to consider it in any way offensive. Don't get me wrong, all in all, I agree with your position in all that mess for about 95% of the discussion. The "FCS" bit is the 5% I didn't agree with. But again, no real harm done. Now, onto the humorous comment I had originally intended to use a few posts ago:
 * I don't mean to alarm you, but I think there may be a cheap knock-off version of you roaming Wikia. I was perusing the Stargate wiki and noticed a user by the name of Lance0214. Better watch your back... :P SpartHawg948 05:44, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's what I needed after this day and before I turn in for the night. I hope I don't have to start explaining myself anytime soon for any of his actions. :) Lancer1289 05:51, October 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Glad I could be of comical assistance! :D SpartHawg948 06:10, October 20, 2010 (UTC)

Something you might find interesting...
I stumbled upon a video that I think you might enjoy. Seems like it's from a game, which simulates several military aircraft... the A-10C among them. From a completely clueless civilian point of view, the simulation looks hardcore accurate, down to all the buttons and doodads in the cockpit. As a nerd for details, I think the fact that they even attempted is pretty awesome. Check it out! -- Dammej ( talk ) 02:09, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I can in fact verify that the process of starting up an A-10 is accurately depicted in that video. Now, does that mean that this is how A-10s are really started up when they're taken out on sorties? Or even when they're being run for maintenance? No. That process (i.e. the real-world process of starting up an A-10) is much longer and more involved. But, this is a sim game, where they aren't worried about real-world procedure, just getting the technical details right, and they have certainly done that. SpartHawg948 04:03, October 21, 2010 (UTC)
 * That sort of stuff is pretty fascinating. I have to imagine it's possible to do the whole checklist as it would be done in a real A-10 as well. I mean, if you go to all that trouble...
 * The game is DCS A-10C Warthog, by the way. Apparently I muffed the details before. There are only 2 games in the series so far, and each game seems to focus on just one piece of military hardware. The A-10 is just badass enough to be the second one to get the sim treatment, apparently. Really considering digging through all my junk to get a flightstick and try it out. Anyway, hope you got as much entertainment out of the video as I did. -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:39, October 21, 2010 (UTC)

Something Interesting
I'm not sure if you have been looking around, but I've noticed something that you might find interesting. Apparently WoWWiki, which has already established another site using the current Wikipedia skin, apparently got concessions from the staff for a wider content space! To me this is just a slap in the face as the staff now seems to be catering to large wikis for whatever reason. You can find that here. Personally I think that is unreasonable that one wiki, and a very large wiki at that, gets special treatment, while the rest get [error record deleted] over by the staff. I say we ask Sannse if the number is under 20% for ridiculously small monitors, then we should get that upgrade as well.

Also I've noticed that ever since the new skin went live, edits have been...lax. Lancer1289 04:07, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart I just wanted to ask you if you think that asking Wikia about changing the width of our wiki might be a good idea?
 * Also sorry for the frusteration in the above message. When I read somehting like that, I sometimes have a tendency to overract when telling others about it. Lancer1289 20:01, October 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have no real opinion one way or the other. All I can say is that it couldn't hurt to ask. Other than that, no strong feelings one way or the other. SpartHawg948 20:03, October 23, 2010 (UTC)

Patch for thumbnail display on 'new skin' is needed
Hey, I think Wikia changed something dealing with thumbnails on the new skin over the past week or so. They're not quite displaying correctly for what we have. If it's not too much trouble, do you think you could apply the fix?

This section in MediaWiki:Wikia.css /* Re-skin the thumbnails */ .WikiaArticle .thumbinner { background-color: #1E1E2E; background-image: none; border: 1px solid #334; }

.WikiaArticle .thumbcaption { background: #334; padding: 2px 1px 0px; }

.WikiaArticle .picture-attribution { background: #334; position:static; /* don't cut off any magnifying glasses... */ } /* END thumbnail skin */

needs to be changed to /* Re-skin the thumbnails */ .WikiaArticle .thumbinner { background-color: #1E1E2E; background-image: none; border: 1px solid #334; }

.WikiaArticle .thumbcaption { background: #334; padding: 2px 1px 0px; }

.WikiaArticle .picture-attribution { margin-right: 0px; background: #334; position:static; /* don't cut off any magnifying glasses... */ } /* END thumbnail skin */

Note the addition of "margin-right" for the picture attribution section. Thanks in advance. -- Dammej ( talk ) 05:01, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Looks like it worked. Thanks! -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:32, October 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * You betcha! :) SpartHawg948 06:34, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Hi
Hi there, I'm new to the wiki and I'd like to know what there is to do :3 If you look at my user page maybe you could have some idea?--Technobliterator Techno's Talk 11:34, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Spoiler Tag Quote
I noticed that we needed a quote on our Mass Effect spoiler tag, so I thought that I would try and save some work for someone else and add a quote to it myself. I have six selections up. Check them out on my Sandbox, and see if you like any of them. If you have any other quotes, then just say them. I'd like to see this tag up to par with the rest of them. --Effectofthemassvariety 17:04, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * Seems like a bit of a moot point now though, doesn't it? What with another user picking one and going with it? SpartHawg948 20:14, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was confused earlier. I sincerely apologize. I initially thought that we would simply pick one, then later thought that we might want input, and that's when I messaged you. I would have picked number 9 in the first place, and I feel that most people would have, so maybe we should just let it be(?) I don't know. I feel really bad about adding to the confusion. --Effectofthemassvariety 21:20, October 27, 2010 (UTC) I guess it's just a formality now, but I began a discussion on Template talk: Spoilers (Mass Effect). I'll inform other users about it. I doubt it will change though, cause it's the best one on the list. --Effectofthemassvariety 21:54, October 27, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is the best one, but things like this, per the site policies, really should be discussed (see the recent discussion on the wordmark for an example), and it's (IMO) pointless to ask someone for their opinion/input if the matter at hand is already going to have been decided (without the appropriate discussion) by one or two users acting unilaterally. SpartHawg948 03:39, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, since I keep screwing up on this matter, I'm gonna ask that you, or someone more capable than I, take the reins. The location for the discussion area was givent to me by someone else, and I just clicked on the link, and started the discussion. I didn't realize that it was inappropriate. I know I should've known, but I didn't. Sorry. I think I'm in some sort of weird funk this week.--Effectofthemassvariety 18:11, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm actually about to run out the door and head to my last class of the week (hooray!) so I can't do it right now. If it still needs taken care of when I get back, I'll take care of it. SpartHawg948 18:31, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Enjoy it. I'll get a projects forum page up in a minute. I'll probably also put Galaxy on there as well considering we don't have a quote for that one either. Lancer1289 18:34, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Got it up, Forum:Spoiler Tag Quotes. Enjoy. I left a comment about also needing a Galaxy quote, and also asked about hte other quotes. Personally I like the current ones, but I thought it needed to be said. Lancer1289 18:45, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're lucky. I have to go to International Relations class in like 2 minutes, Then Public Opinion & Political Thought after that. Ugh! Also, thanks Lancer! Oh, and I think that Commdor did add a quote to the Galaxy tag. So maybe put the current one's quote up so everyone knows what it is. Whatever you decide. --Effectofthemassvariety 19:02, October 28, 2010 (UTC)

Those actually sound like pretty interesting classes. I'd gladly trade you Environmental Health and Justice for them! I'm tired of talking about endocrine disruptors and methylmercury and organochlorides and nonsense like that... I actually do need to take a PoliSci course though... thinking about that one for next quarter, along with another environmental law class I already know I'll have to take... ugh... SpartHawg948 21:50, October 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you don't mind my asking, why is it required of you (Spart) to take so many environmental classes? --AnotherRho 00:49, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Funny thing about an Environmental Studies degree... they make you take all kinds of environmental classes! :P (Specifically, I'm going for a degree in Environmental Compliance and Pollution Prevention.) SpartHawg948 00:53, October 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is funny that they do that! ;) I didn't know you were interested in environmental (law?) compliance and the prevention of pollution.  Of course, we don't really know one another, so no surprise there, eh? -- AnotherRho 03:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. And yeah, the compliance bit does focus mostly on compliance with the law, mostly with federal laws. The CAA, CWA, CDWPA, RCRA, TSCA, and all sorts of other fun acronyms... SpartHawg948 03:46, October 29, 2010 (UTC)

Thought of the [moment]
Just reading through your "thoughts" on your main page, and had a gander at some of the (mid-October) links. Well. Now, obviously we're no enemies of discussion, and sometimes even spirited discussions; but charity bids me to say that there is no comparison between these and those. You really have suffered through some crappers. In another note, I'd just like to offer my humble encouragement to continue supplying nice UNDO summaries, since they are very instructive (I assume you were jesting, but encouragement and praise suits nigh any occasion). Anyway, nice to read your page updates. --AnotherRho 00:38, October 31, 2010 (UTC) [EDIT]: You might add to this business about "new looks" IMDB, which also changed somewhat recently (in my opinion, to a much "fatter" look). --AnotherRho

Ralok
I understand Ralok got banned from this wiki. He's now moved to Encyclopedia Barsoomia, where I am the administrator, and has been attempting to get administrative privileges. He even deployed another user here to send me a message saying that I should give Ralok admin privileges so that he can stop some imaginary horde of irate ERB fans from vandalizing the wiki. What exactly was his reputation when he was here? -- Gnostic 18:57, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... I actually saw that request, but didn't feel it my place to butt in with my opinion. But since you asked, that's another matter entirely... Also, and this is no fault of your own, you were simply the first person to leave me a message since the "New Look" became mandatory, let me just say: I HATE THE NEW MESSAGE NOTIFICATION SYSTEM!!! ARGH!!!
 * Ok. Now on to your query. First, let me apologize for the delay in my response. As of today, my Thursdays have become a bit busier, or I would have gotten back to you sooner. Now, you may want to sound out some of the other regular users as well (I'd maybe recommend Lancer1289, Commdor, maybe Arbington... basically any long-term editors who may have had run-ins with him), but from everything I saw, his reputation was not good. He started out pretty poorly, saying some horrible things about autistic people that nearly got him banned by another admin, Tullis, who is known to be fairly easygoing. When pressed, he did remove them, but the vast majority of his comments were similarly unproductive. His edits were generally reverted as not relevant or chock full of mistakes, both factual and grammatical; he had a reputation for starting major arguments and "flame wars" on talk pages, and then there were the bans.
 * He was banned some time ago, by the aforementioned Tullis, for "Repeated combative language and unbecoming conduct to other users, despite repeated warnings from administrators." (Her reasoning) Now, once he was blocked, he kept arguing with the admins on his talk page, resulting in a new block removing his ability to do so. He responded by spamming rude and harassing emails to admins, to the point that I had to block his email address through my email provider. When these bans on his account were up, he came back and seemed to be making an effort to change, but soon fell back into his old ways. As such, after a particularly egregious incident, he was permanently banned from the wiki. In short, I would strongly recommend not making Ralok an admin. But that's just me, and I admit, I may not be the most impartial observer. I hope that this helps you in some way, shape, or form.
 * In an aside, might I ask what this "Barsoom" is? I can't say that I'm familiar with it. SpartHawg948 00:10, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum to an already too-long response: You may consider checking out this blog. While doing some research on the matter, I stumbled across it. In the blog, Ralok describes you as "that guy that i am trying to steal a wiki from". Not the most flattering description of you I've ever heard, nor does an attempt to "steal a wiki" sound that great... SpartHawg948 04:36, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I might also recommend checking the actual Request for adoption made by Ralok. I was perusing Wikia Central looking for who I need to contact to complain about the new message notification system (mentioned in my original response) and noticed this page in the recent changes. I saw Ralok's inaccurate description of his bans (past and present) from the Mass Effect Wiki, responded with my version of events, to hopefully allow the proper authorities to develop a fuller picture of what happened, and was promptly attacked by Ralok. Regardless of your decision, I would recommend that you inform the Wikia staffers via that blog. My apologies for this outlandishly long response, but I do try to be thorough when admins or bureaucrats of other wikis ask me for info. Better too much info than not enough, eh? :) SpartHawg948 08:34, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in here, but I also wouldn't recommend Ralok for an admin position. Everything Spart has said matches my interactions with him, especially the long flame wars on talk pages. A few examples, Talk:SSV Normandy, Talk:Urz, and Talk:Turian see the section linked and the two below that. His edits and everything else speak for themselves. Also look at this history of his talk page, see here for that and his contributions for some of his edits to blogs and things like that. Again I think his edits speak for themselves and given that he has a habit of causing flame wars and breaking rules, I'd again have to say that I also wouldn't recommend him for adminship. Lancer1289 15:41, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good lord, SpartHawg, you're really... thorough. Thank you for finding the blog posts, and for intervening in Ralok's attempts to steal the wiki. I'm beginning to wonder if it wouldn't be more prudent to just ban Ralok now rather than wait for him to act out. -- Gnostic 01:11, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Thorough indeed! :) You asked for info, and I wasn't going to half-@$$ my response. Whether you ban him or not is, of course, entirely up to you, but it's always better to go into these things informed. He may attempt to lash out on the Barsoom Wiki after this, but then again, he may not. I leave all decisions regarding that site in your capable hands. So yeah, sorry again for A) The tardy response to your question, and B) the ridiculous length of my response, but I do hope it helped you some, and if you have questions about anything else, please don't hesitate to ask. I'm always happy to help. SpartHawg948 01:24, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Avatar
Well I took a look at it and given what I know, it looks like one of the images from the movie We Were Soldiers or it is something from the Vietnam War. I really can't get more specific without more detail, nor can I get a larger image. However that's my guess, which is probably wrong, but you can't fault someone for trying. Lancer1289 14:31, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah... I hate to say... not even close. SpartHawg948 20:15, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Spotlight Image
Sorry for the second message Spart. Now that's out of the way, down to business.

I got a response from JoePlay and you can read his response on my talk page. He also agreed that the images look like nothing that is seen in ME what so ever. So he asked if there is an image we'd like to use, and I'm thinking that we could have an image with the SSV Normandy in it and a planet much like the original logo before this new skin. No I'm not a fan either. That's really what I've got, but I wanted to get your opinion first. Lancer1289 17:10, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why not a shot of the default male Shepard? It's literally the single most recognizable image from Mass Effect. Or maybe the First Contact War codex pic? SpartHawg948 20:18, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm also good ideas. I'd really be somewhat hesitant to use the default Male Shepard, but the First Contact War pic does sound like a much better idea. Given the options I'd say the First Contact War pic would probably be the best thing, at least from my perspective. Lancer1289 20:21, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that was really an iconic image early on, and it's still a pretty good looking pic. That does sound like it might be our best bet. Better than the robots from Terminator, anyways! :P SpartHawg948 20:25, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * The only other thing I had was a shot of the Illusive Man's office from the Cinematic trailer, but when put next to the First Contact War pic, I think the latter wins. Also I couldn't really find a good image of the former. So if you have no objections, then I'll forward that to JoePlay. Lancer1289 20:41, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. No objections. But then, what do I know? Apparently I'm just an idiot who doesn't realize that the definitions of words clearly supersede canon info! :P SpartHawg948 20:44, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'll pass that along then. And I'm still trying to figure out what you said. I get that it was in jest, but I'm still trying to figure it out. Lancer1289 20:47, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * A recent blog entry where... well, you can find that out for yourself. Look for the part regarding the Leviathan of Dis on RayShepp645's "How to defeat the Reapers Theories" blog. Makes for some good reading. :) SpartHawg948 20:49, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I get it now. I really don't know what else to say but that was some good reading. I needed a bit of humor. So thanks again for providing it. Lancer1289 20:56, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hey, completely random request that has nothing to do with the above info (or anything on the wiki): Pick a number between 1 and 10. (Also, I can now say that, if this is possible, I hate the new edit conflict notification even more than the old one.) SpartHawg948 20:57, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then...9. That was probably the most random thing today for me btw. What do you need a number for anyway if you don't mind me asking?
 * Also I haven't gotten edit conflicted yet, so I guess I'll have to wait until that happens so what this new edit conflict notification is. Lancer1289 21:07, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Niklas Bäckström it is then. All three of my NHL fantasy team goalies are playing today, and I was torn on which two to play. Cam Ward (Carolina) has been doing great lately, and the 'Canes are playing Florida, so he's a no-brainer. But the other spot is giving me some trouble. Henrik Lundqvist (NY Rangers) has been extremely inconsistent lately, going from a shutout one game to allowing four goals in 19 shots the next. And he's playing New Jersey, and they're not doing too bad right now, even though Brodeur is playing like crap. On the other hand, Niklas Bäckström (Minnesota) has been doing really good, but is playing Calgary, which gives me some concern. So, 1-5 was Lundqvist, 6-10 was Bäckström. Honestly, I'd been leaning toward Bäckström anyways, and now the old "pick a number" method (which can't possibly fail!) backs it up! :P SpartHawg948 21:13, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed it never fails. Well, good luck with your game then. :) Lancer1289 21:15, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

The Slave Ship
Your new avatar is a portion of British seascape painter J. M. W. Turner's The Slave Ship. I can't attribute this to any preexisting knowledge of art, unfortunately. Rather, Google and the use of four choice search terms blazed a trail to the answer. -- Commdor (Talk) 04:44, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * It is indeed The Slave Ship, by the British Romantic landscape painter Joseph Mallord William Turner. Turner is considered to be the master of landscape painting, and The Slave Ship is one of his best. (I'd also recommend The Fighting Temeraire) It's a striking piece that depicts a truly horrid event in British history (the Zong Massacre), and you can see this if you look closely at the bottom portion of the painting, but the artist depicts it in a manner that can only be described as sublime (used in its artistic definition). The painting also helped call increased attention to the massacre, greatly aiding the abolitionist movement in Great Britain. SpartHawg948 04:54, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Four terms, eh? I'm impressed. Mind if I ask what four terms? I'm sure they're probably pretty obvious (at least some of them), but still... I can't say I'd have managed the same. Now, I know I said this was part of the reward, but I should ask first. Do you want me to extol your awesomeness on your talk page as well as mine? If so, say the word and I'll whip something up that will hopefully do you justice while at the same time trying not to repeat what I put in the other two messages. Don't want to repeat myself on something of this magnitude. :) SpartHawg948 05:09, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure, I'll take the talk page gold star since you're feeling charitable. Far be it from me to turn down a free compliment. :) As for the search terms, I used "famous military paintings sunsets" in Google image search. The Slave Ship was on page 2 of results, second row down, third from the left (at least for me). Now, while that result (someone's blog) did not provide the name of the painting, it provided the name of the artist, and from there Wikipedia filled in the details. The reasoning behind the terms I chose was you have a background in the military, you're a history buff, and the painting has a ship in it and a sunset. Pretty obvious stuff, all told. I figured you'd choose a fairly important painting with some relation to military history (i.e. a battle or well-known warship). I may have missed the mark with the military assumption, but it still got me to the answer, didn't it? Also, I noticed you recommended a few shows to watch (Terriers and Sons of Anarchy), and had a thought: did you see last week's premiere of The Walking Dead on AMC? A little random, but it's something special. I strongly recommend watching it. Anyway, see you tomorrow. Got to turn in a little early (for a weekend) because I've got a project to do and midterm to study for. And now I'm sad. :( -- Commdor (Talk) 05:50, November 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Famous military paintings sunset, eh? Not too shabby. And it certainly did get you the right answer. Funny story... you used google to locate this painting, and fairly recently google did their whole revamp thing (their own "New Look) which allows you to set your own background for their home page. My google background? The Slave Ship. So, I use the painting as my background on the search engine you used to find it. I really like Turner's work. It has such intensity to it. My favorite blurb about him involves his ability to paint images depicting ships at sea in bad weather. He wanted to experience storms at sea firsthand, to better understand them and to actually see them so he could paint them better. So he went to sea on a ship and had the crew lash him to the mast while the ship sailed through a nasty storm. He stayed out on deck lashed to the mast for four hours! He spent the four hours studying the storm, and expecting not to make it out alive, which of course he did.
 * Now, I must confess that I haven't even heard of The Walking Dead. I may have to look into it. And remind me tomorrow about paying you my respects on your page. I'm too tired to think right now. I hardly got any sleep last night, and then spent all day today at a local Watersheds and Creeks conference with speakers talking about topics such as "Stanford's Searsville Dam - A Unique Dam Removal Opportunity", "Vision for the Stanford Watershed", and "Water District Dams and Reservoirs: Their Purpose, Their Safety, Their Future". I very nearly fell asleep during the "Calaveras Dam Project" presentation! (Not that it was all bad. It was actually pretty enjoyable, if you're into that stuff, and there were some very interesting presentations, most notably "Affects of beaver on an Urban Stream".) So I'm pretty bushed, and am turning in as well. Before the latest standings for my fantasy hockey league came out, if that tells you anything! :P
 * But I'm not backing out on the promised reward. I'll tackle another laudatory message praising your awesomeness tomorrow, when I'm good and refreshed and actually thinking clearly! :) SpartHawg948 06:15, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

You're welcome! Good to see another convert (I couldn't get my roommates to watch it for the life of me. Kids these days, with their Halo: Reach marathons and physics/math double majors. No time to appreciate shows more involving than Family Guy). Only 10 (grueling) months until season 2! Also, did you hear Terriers got canceled? Sad to see great shows cut down because of ratings. Same thing happened to another AMC show, Rubicon. It was one of those acquired-taste shows, but I liked it and it's a pity it's gone. Terriers looked like it would reach a wider audience and easily get renewed, but no. Oh well. What can you do, you know? -- Commdor (Talk) 05:46, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I heard about Terriers. Rest assured, I've already sent an email to FX letting them know how I feel about the cancellation. They just had the season (and apparently series) finale last week! And such a great cliffhanger! Boo! But yeah, The Walking Dead is pretty good. And it's got Norman Reedus! I must say, it's quite a shock seeing him as a redneck hick (given that I'm most used to him as an Irishman in The Boondock Saints). I'm impressed. One of the few things getting me through a grueling day of schoolwork is the zombie-killing awesomeness. SpartHawg948 05:52, December 7, 2010 (UTC)

Announcement
All right folks, listen up! I just figured I'd take this opportunity to let it be known that Commdor is quite possibly the greatest editor in the history of editors. Not only has he shown his skill and dare I say, grace, at editing time and time again, as well as his wise judgment as exhibited by talk page comments, he has now also demonstrated his resourcefulness. It doesn't matter how he arrived at his answer. What matters is that he arrived at the correct answer, and did so in a way that I for one more than likely cannot replicate. So yeah... just throwing that out there. If you want to see what the epitome of awesomeness is, you need look no farther than this guy. SpartHawg948 05:05, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

BioWare Blog points to us
Hey, not sure how cool/interesting or whatever the wiki/you/moderators would find this, but in the latest update at BioWare Blog they have as of Nov. 5th Christina Norman's interview, in which she mentions hanar and the blog (as written by Chris Priestly) oh so humbly directs people to the hanar page, so just nice to see some more recognition and appreciation from those awesome supporters at BioWare and on the Mass Effect team.--Xaero Dumort 05:29, November 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Holy (words I can't say because of the site language policy)!!! That is (word I can't say because of the site language policy) awesome! And you, sir, are just as (word I can't say because of the site language policy) awesome for bringing this to my attention! I'm not sure if we can really integrate this into anything like the Wiki News, like we did with Mac Walters' acknowledgment, but it's still pretty awesome! :D SpartHawg948 06:46, November 8, 2010 (UTC)

ACTUALLY Spart....
You WERE rude, right at the beginning, I just didn't bother to mention it. "how did anyone capture her? At all? EVER? " Seriously, do you get off on mocking people? On sarcasm? Or do you really not see just how you come across?
 * I was merely emphasizing a point. At first, I didn't even realize I was echoing your words. I had typed "how did anyone capture her? At all?" Then, realizing that this sounded somewhat familiar, I reread your post and noticed the identical wording, so I added the "EVER?" as well. Using your own words to state my point is not rude or sarcastic, nor was it intended as such. I can see how it could be misconstrued as being rude, but I assure you, no derision or scorn was meant. Again, I was merely using your own words to drive home a point. Taking your previous assertion to its logical conclusion and using your language to make clear that this was what I was doing. You have completely misinterpreted my intent and what I was saying, which, given that your perception of me is clouded by previous encounters, is understandable.
 * However, I must point out that, even if I had been rude or sarcastic towards you anywhere other than in your own mind, there are better ways to resolve it, and you know that. You now say that "I just didn't bother to mention it." Why? Why did you not mention it? So you could hold it in reserve to score "cheap points" later? If you had mentioned it right away ("Spart, I have to tell you, your last comment seemed mighty rude and made you sound like a total jerk" or something like that), I'd have done my best right then and there to resolve the situation. Instead, you decided to wait till much later and to knowingly violate site policies, at least the second time you've done so. Two wrongs do not make a right. The fact that you knowingly violated site policy (AGAIN!!!) gives me instant grounds to ban you, and for quite some time, but for some reason I can't even begin to fathom, I won't. Know though that if you betray my trust again, the consequences will be much more dire. SpartHawg948 20:01, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I didn't mention it because I was just going to let it go, because I know you don;t realise it. Not for "cheap points". I called you two trolls because of YOUR refusal to see my point, and your constant insstence of bringing up the limitations of real prisons, which had nothing to do with anything in a world of psychics and force feilds. And then Lancer brought out those quotes in an attemopt to make it look like I said Jack was never raped. I never once said that. And none of those quotes reflected that. A pretty trollie move, to me. I also called YOU a troll because, well, there's no exageration what I said about most of your posts on this site.NickTyrong 20:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * And your refusal to see the points Lancer and I were making was somehow different? You refuse to see my point. Should I therefor call you names? No. It's petty and juvenile and not called for in mature conversation. I can't speak for Lancer, but I was using real-world prisons as examples, not as the crux of my argument. You actually seemed to be avoiding the main points I was making, which was extremely frustrating, but somehow I was able to avoid lashing out with name-calling. And yes, real world prison examples do have a place, as pretty much everything we see as far as social institutions in Mass Effect correlates to real-world examples, merely with more advanced technology. You, on the other hand, were insisting that, since they knew she was a biotic, they'd have taken precautions, and these precautions, taken in ignorance of the tremendous power she has, would still suffice to contain her. Nevermind that, as I pointed out numerous times, and you failed to respond to numerous times, this is not a conventional prison subsidized by a government where trained professionals make use of the best technology available, regardless of cost. It's a for-profit mercenary enterprise, and corners will be cut to save money. Also nevermind the fact that, as was pointed out to you multiple times, the guards had their options limited from the start because Warden Kuril did not want Jack killed under any circumstances! This, of course, (and especially when combined with their mercenary, cost-saving nature) makes taking any adequate precautions very difficult. If the person you are incarcerating already knows you aren't willing to take any means necessary to stop them, they really have no incentive to not lash out and get away with whatever they can.
 * Additionally, you claim to have refused to point out my supposed rudeness because "I know you don;t realise it", yet later you claim to have called me a troll because "there's no exageration what I said about most of your posts on this site". Do you see the disconnect here? If I am engaging in these activities without realizing it, I can't stop unless others make me aware of it! Assuming your perception of these events is true, that literally makes you an accessory to my "trolling", since you were aware of it, yet did nothing to stop it! And please know that no amount of "justification" (i.e. "Well Lancer said this and did this, and you had said and done this elsewhere") justifies breaking the site rules. If you want a problem resolved, handle it like an adult, and talk to the person. I would say or talk to one of the admins, but it seems that most of your issues are with the admins, so in this case the two different methods are one and the same. Don't immediately resort to breaking site policies and engaging in boorish behavior without trying to handle things like a mature adult first. It'll only get you banned. SpartHawg948 20:36, November 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I'll speak for myself then. It appears there was a little miscommunication and I never said that you denied Jack was raped. You have to read more than just two sentences that you quoted to get it. This is what I actually said and those quotes, taken out of context mean something completely different.
 * "See my comments about looking up how prisons really work, not in your fantasy world. All prisoners, and given this is a super max prison, would get similar treatment. Then because Jack is a biotic, she would have gotten additional ones on top of that, and yet she was still in the general population. However then she was raped and then hunted down her attackers. WE NEVER CONTESTED THIS, UNLIKE WHAT YOU CLAIM. However, clearly their precautions were inadequate because they didn't know the extent of Jack's biotic powers. Therefore, they felt that their precautions were adequate."
 * Basically you (NickTyrong) were saying that the precautions that Purgatory took should have been adequate, and it was based on your, incorrect, knowledge of how real prisons work. I thought you meant something completely different than what you said. You can't take two sentences out of context and expect me to understand exactly what you were saying. I never said that you denied being raped, so you are taking my words out of context and spinning them. Remember that context always matters. What that whole quote, in context means, that we never contested that Jack would have had security measures, but we do contest that there was incompetence on the part of the staff, which stems from the lack of proper information on Jack's full biotic powers, which was one of your two main theories.
 * I was also using real world examples, and then you dismissed those as they couldn't possibly have any relation to a prison of the future. Which as both Spart and myself, to a much lesser extent, pointed out that they do, and Spart's comments above say pretty much everything. You accuse us, and then insulted us, of ignoring your points, when you also didn't address any of ours, a.k.a. ignoring them. We addressed your points, many times, I might add, and demonstrated that most of your points are not supported by evidence, while ours were. Also again you can't take two sentences out of context and quote them, and then expect me to know exactly what you are saying, so that was a miscommunication, which you then failed to point out until now. Lancer1289 21:22, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Get Ready for Rumor Control
Latest buzz is a Multiplayer Mass Effect to be announced December 11th during Spike TV's VGAs. So we will probably have a flux until then in people trying to add speculation as fact. I think it would be cool if this ends up true, but I would like ME3 before this. MASSively Multiplayer EFFECT--Xaero Dumort 04:24, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * JakePT just found the same thing. But yeah i have to agree, we will get those people who think that this one source, which in itself is speculation, although there are some facts there in this case, we won't know anything until the 11th. However this in of itself could be a teaser trailer for ME3. But I still think we'll get those people, however I don't think it will be as bad as you might think Xaero. But I wasn't around the last time. Lancer1289 04:35, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Oh don't get me wrong Lancer, I don't think it'll be terrible, just wanted to give a heads up.--Xaero Dumort 05:26, November 18, 2010 (UTC)

Misquote?
Um perhaps I misunderstood one of your comments on the Talk:Codex/Ships and Vehicles page. You state that "[i]t's also pretty easy to misread a script and say fifteen when it reads five. After all, it's not like they could have left a 1 out. It's written out (i.e. five instead of 5). I'm inclined to stick with the written version as canon, as the written version is what came straight from BioWare, as opposed to coming from BioWare and then going through an actor." Now again perhaps I'm misunderstanding you, but I thought that you were saying that the text version is more canon than the audio because of discovered discrepancies. Please correct if it is a misunderstanding. Lancer1289 23:20, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. Never said one was more or less canon. I stated my personal opinion ("I'm inclined"...) as to which one is more likely correct, but never did I state that we needed to decide for ourselves which version is canon, and which is not. That's BioWare's job. Also note that this comment was made before we had even started talking about getting audio entries presented. As such, it really can't be taken as an accurate gauge of my opinion on the matter after we began featuring audio entries. Kind of a big change in the equation, wouldn't you agree? SpartHawg948 23:24, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmm fair point I forgot we added the audio after that conversation so yes I'd agree that is a big game changer. Oh well I guess I misinterpreted something so thanks for clearing that up. Lancer1289 23:45, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Speaking of which... (perfect segue there) I've been meaning to tell you: I'll be out of town for a while next month. From 10 December to 30 December I'll be visiting the family in the great state of Florida. For most of that time, I should be able to check in once a day or so, other than an unknown period when I'll be visiting my grandparents, who have an old Mac and dial-up. But I should be around a bit... have to keep track of things here and in my fantasy league. and I'll get the Featured Article for the middle of December ready before I leave too. Just figured I'd let you know though that for about 3 weeks I won't be around much... SpartHawg948 23:50, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I'll be sure to keep a closer eye on the wiki then. I do hope you enjoy your visit to Flordia, it's getting cold very quickly here in Chicago, but then I like the cold and snow so I really have no complaints. Well as long as it doesn't go below 0, that's a little too cold. However I do hope you enjoy your visit with your family and enjoy your holidays. I'll be sure to update the FA when necessary and again enjoy your visit. Lancer1289 23:58, November 28, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Wiki translation
I would like to create a Mass Effect Wiki in Brazilian Portuguese, but it didn't seem appropriate to do so without asking an administrator. Is it OK? How can I create it so that it is linked at the bottom of the homepage?
 * I have no problem with you creating a Brazilian Portuguese-language Mass Effect Wiki. The more, the merrier! I'm not really sure how to create the link you're asking about though, sorry. SpartHawg948 23:14, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Quick Question
How do you change the profile image? I have tried and failed repeatedly. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Doctor Watson - 29 November 2010
 * I'm trying my best to remember, but may not be the best person to ask. Last time I wanted to change mine, it took me quite a while to figure it out. I think it has something to do with your preferences, but don't quote me on that. If I remember anything more, I'll be sure to post it here. SpartHawg948 23:20, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

When did I ever say that?
When did I ever say you were doing it because you didn;t like me? Inf act, I said you did it to everyone, ebcause, well, you like to. Just for the sake of it. Not because you didn;t like it. What's more, I already pointed out the contradiction in what you said, so continuing to claim that I said what you claimed doesn;t work. i pointed out the contradictions. Telling me to grow up only continues to show your inability to consider, as I have said before, any idea other than your own as being even moderately right. Again, as you have also done to others on this site. But why do I bother trying to argue this with you, i wonder. Isn't that the point I just made? If it's not what you think, no matter what, it must be wrong? So telling you that changes nothing.... And yes, it was rude.NickTyrong 20:44, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I never said that you said what I claimed. The only thing that I stated you said was that I had already mentioned the propensity to misestimate size (true), and that you claimed it could be another design of Reaper (also true). You did say both of those things. I never claimed that, in the process of claiming both those things, you also affirmed that I was right. You're making that part up. And once again, you show your inability to consider that someone may be disagreeing with you merely because they think you are wrong, not just because they want to be disagreeable. You were the one who chose to act rudely to others in that conversation. So yes, you do need to grow up. And to do so quickly. And believe me, if the best you can come up with is to be rude to someone else while claiming that "they started it", then you have quite a bit of growing to do. SpartHawg948 20:53, December 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nick, if you want others to consider your theories, which I know I do and I disagree with those theories, and I'm certain that Spart does as well, and again, he disagrees with your theories, then you have to be willing to consider someone else's theories, or anyone else's for that matter. In almost every conversation you dismiss anything that disagrees with you, then resort to juvenile attacks and actions like, call others rude, calling them names, and a whole host of other things because as you say they are disagreeing to disagree, which has been every time, extremely far from the truth. You routinely dismiss theories put forth by others and then when they have the nerve to disagree with you, you usually start ranting immediately about how they are wrong and they didn't even remotely consider theory at all. As with every time, your "opponent", for a complete lack of a better term, addresses your theories, and when they ask you to do the same, you ignore the requests and go off ranting about how they are disagreeing on principal, how they are rude, you call them names, accuse them of dismissing your theories despite the fact they addressed them, or dismiss anything that isn't your theory. You seem to get so focused on your theory that you go "tunnel vision" on it, and flat out refuse to consider any other theory, even equally valid theories, for whatever reason. And trust me "tunnel vision" isn't a good thing, I paid for doing it on more than one occasion, but those are stories for another time.
 * I disagree with your theories, and I'm not disagreeing to be disagreeable. However you do dismiss anything and everything else, then start accusing others of being rude when they start poking holes, again for lack of a better term, in your theory. You then start accusing them of being rude, throwing around accusations, calling names, and basically going off on a juvenile temper tantrum. You seem to take anyone disagreeing with you as a personal insult, which probably among the things that is furthest from the truth. From what I can tell, anyone who disagrees with you, is disagreeing with your theory and just to be disagreeable. You claim that Spart dismissed any theory that isn't his own, well I know that isn't the case, but rather it is the case with you, see my comments above on that. Spart does consider other theories and I've seen evidence of that. He doesn't just dismiss anything that doesn't agree with him, he does consider other options and theories, and sometimes he agrees, sometimes not, and other times he's neutral on the subject. However I have never, never seen him disagree for the sole and absolute reason to be disagreeable.
 * So Nick, you do need to take Spart's advice and grow up and start acing more mature than you have been in the past. You routinely resort to juvenile attacks, saying that "s/he started it", ignore other theories, and then at the end, be flat out rude. These are not the things one usually sees in mature conversations, and it always starts with you. You are the first to throw a name, call someone rude, or something else, and then it escalates. People can disagree with you without being disagreeable because maybe they disagree with your theories, which you again seem to "tunnel vision" on. If you want others to take you seriously, then you need to be mature and be willing to accept criticism on anything you put forth, and not take is as a personal attack when they disagree or have problems with it. Lancer1289 21:34, December 3, 2010 (UTC)

Explicit Permission for userpages??
I was very intrigued by what you said on my talk page, about having to explicitly give permission for others so that they can edit my userpages. That's news to me. How do I do that? -- Pepoluan 14:58, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well I don't know about Spart, but for me a simple note at the top of the page saying something like this would work for me. "I (insert user name) give ("anyone" or list specific users) permission to edit this page. (signature)". Just replace the with your user name, anyone or list specific users, and then sign it. I did something similar when I was working on my sandboxes, see here. I don't have the signature, but that would be enough for me. Again not sure about Spart. Lancer1289 18:51, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ahh... so it's not a kind of a system-enforced policy setting, but a convention... am I getting that right? -- Pepoluan 19:00, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope it is a convention. Taken from the Mass Effect Wiki:Community Guidelines. "A user's page and Talk page belong to that user, and they have control over what goes on it." A user's page is their property and they are the only ones allowed to modify them. User talk pages have a few other rules which also apply to talk pages in general, but that's another issue. Basically you are the only one allowed to modify pages in your user space, like sandboxes and your user page. Any other edits that aren't made by you usually fall into two categories: One, vandalism, or 2, someone trying to fix things thinking that the same rules on articles, letting anyone edit them, applies to user pages. It is very clear which is which and with the second, usually a warning is left saying that user pages are the sole property of that user and only they are allowed to edit it. I hope that clarifies things. Lancer1289 19:17, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, thanks for the clear explanation. Much appreciated :) -- Pepoluan 00:04, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

They call it Illium; I call it Ilium!
Hey Spart!

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for the utterly silly mistake I just made in the Lair of the Shadow Broker article. For some reason I keep thinking it's "Ilium" with just one L. Guess I'll have to do more reading on "Illium". =D

Thanks for the correction on your part. I've actually made this same mistake a few times now. Fiery Phoenix 21:25, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * It happens. No reason to be perturbed by it. I find myself often forgetting whether it's one L or two. In fact, just to be sure, I had to go back and check just a few minutes ago before leaving you that message! Everybody makes mistakes, so of us (and I'm looking at me here) a few more than most! :P SpartHawg948 21:35, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

If you say so... :D -- Fiery Phoenix 21:44, December 5, 2010 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry
Just a heads up: It seems to me that it's a pretty big coincidence for a new user, User:Jlb141, to make an account right in the middle of the discussion you're having with User:LesEnfantsTerribles, and for that new user's first (and currently only) actions to be to immediately post comments supporting LesEnfantsTerribles' side of the argument using what I would regard as similar language patterns. I strongly believe LET made a sockpuppet. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:19, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've already taken a few steps in that direction, and I'm sure Spart has as well. Unfortunatley we'll have to wait for the results. Lancer1289 23:24, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's good. I saw enough of this during my time at Wikipedia to recognize the obvious symptoms, and I really can't abide it. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:28, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Holy bejeebers! This nonsense is still ongoing?!? Yeah, I saw that guy and had my suspicions, but as I was having lunch and watching The Office, I didn't take any precautions other than to become suspicious. Honestly, I'd hoped that The Terrible Baby (or whatever his name is) would have dropped it by now. Guess not... SpartHawg948 23:57, December 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart, if you wouldn't mind checking your email for something I sent. Thanks. Lancer1289 00:28, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh, but I mind. After all, I'm just a narcissistic pedant in love with my own power! :P SpartHawg948 00:31, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I really needed that. LOL. Lancer1289 00:33, December 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * It's in the email too, but just so everyone can see it, for those wondering about how I react to sock puppetry, I do take it very seriously, but my approach is also tempered by practical considerations. For those familiar with it, I'd ask people to recall my story of the time I was banned from Wikipedia after being falsely accused of being a sock puppet. SpartHawg948 00:40, December 6, 2010 (UTC)

More needless, and frankly useless stuff from Wikia
Well Wikia decided to put something new into how wikis operate, that is, IMVHO, completely and utterly useless as it further distracts from the article content. Basically it adds pictures to Category pages, which isn't what I'm really irritated about. However if an article doesn’t have a picture, then it just pulls words and turns that into a picture. Basically I see this a completely useless feature. However that isn't what I'm really irritated about.

What really irritates me is this completely useless feature that adds three giant pictures and links to other articles at the bottom of a page. For short articles all it does is further distract from the content of the page, and on pages with a "See Also" section already, or a nice template, it is just completely useless, or deemphasizes those things. Just now I searched Miranda's page and got the links for Kaidan, Kasumi, and Sergeant Boortis. Really, Boortis? Apart from being a character, how does he relate to Miranda at all? This is just another one of those completely useless features that, also IMVHO, destroy how we present the ME Wiki, as an in-universe database.

However, unlike this skin, which I still don't think was a good idea, WE CAN TURN IT OFF. According to Sannse, we can disable the feature, and while I haven't done anything yet, I was wondering your opinion on this. Just a warning, the person who initially asked the question was someone who you perma-banned recently. And any others are welcome as well. Again I personally see this as yet another completely useless feature from Wikia that as they keep trying to turn wikis into the next Social Networking...thing. I thought a wiki was supposed to be about content, not needless features that distract from it.

So what do you think about this? Since we can turn it off, I personally think we should do so. Lancer1289 17:36, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Just noticed this in the articles. Highly intrusive. If my opinion's worth anything in this matter, I second Lancer's notion. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:08, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed those the other day actually on Wookieepedia and was trying to figure out what the (expletive deleted) they were. Horribly distracting. I dunno if you've seen what they look like when the article they link to has no images, but it isn't pretty. (For what I'm talking about, see here.) Horrible. So yeah, let's turn it the F off! RIGHT THE F NOW !!! SpartHawg948 20:15, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * One Email to Wikia coming up. Lancer1289 20:17, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Is that how you have to turn it off? Emailing Wikia and asking them to disable it? Lame. I ask, of course, for no reason in particular... no reason at all... :P SpartHawg948 20:20, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yep we have to contact Wikia to disable it. I know it was meant in jest, but you have to contact Wikia for just about anything, and to get anything done these days. Also if we blacklisted categories from the "new and great" read more sections in the main Wikia.css, we would violate the Terms of Use. That is lame. You can do it in your personal css, but not in the main. Wikia seems to be turning itself into more of a social networking site than presenting actual content. Lamer. I really wish they would, oh I don't know, actually do some research before implementing "new and improved" features. Lancer1289 20:26, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I repeat... LAME. SpartHawg948 20:30, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * It gets worse... I don't know if this one's related, but take a look at The Shadow Broker Dossiers Category... what the (expletive deleted) are those "text turned quotes" doing there??
 * (Off tangent note: I can't link to categories using the  notation?) -- Pepoluan 04:57, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * To link to a category, you need to put a : in front of the link like this, which results in this: Category:Shadow Broker Dossiers. If there is no image in the category, then it pulls the first few words, and then makes a picture out of it. I’ve already asked Wikia to remove it, and they have yet to respond. If I don’t get a response by tomorrow, then I’m sending another one. This is just completely useless and Wikia really needs to do more research before they implement things like this. Lancer1289 05:05, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, this is all pretty hideous. I emailed Wikia about the same thing, more as a general concern, and I too have yet to receive any reply. The New Look was kind of contentious, but there were definitely people who liked it. Even I am beginning to appreciate elements of it. This new nonsense though is just that, nonsense. I haven't seen anyone saying they like it. SpartHawg948 05:30, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think five people, maybe probably less, said they liked it on the blog where they initally announced it. However everyone else is just sharing our opinions, they don't like it and they are all asking the same question. "Why are you forcing this on us?" While they may not have all said that directly, given their comments, it isn't that far off. Very few like this "new and great feature". Lancer1289 05:45, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah. The auto-generated "see also" links are a bit redundant for us, when most of our pages already have a template or a "See Also" section that takes care of it. That said, I think that they do look nice when they actually have a picture to use. The auto-generated quote text is categorically ugly, though. If we had a little more control over where they show up, and what they show, I think it'd be a significantly better feature. -- Dammej ( talk ) 06:01, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * But that's the problem is we don't have control over any bit of it. The pictures, what articles it picks, or from what categories. You can blacklist categories, but only in your personal .css page, we can't do it in the main .css page. That would violate the ToS, which is just Wikia forcing features that some may not all time useful, or even nice. Thankfully we can at least disable this. Lancer1289 06:10, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

(reset indent) Oh yeah, I understand that absolutely. I'm just saying that it should be suggested that we be given more control over how the feature works. Because I definitely think it could be a good tool to use. If they can't/won't do that though, turning it off is the only recourse. -- Dammej ( talk )

Update: I haven't gotten anything back from Wikia yet, so I'm going to send another email as soon as I'm done here. Also I've leard that the image atribution feature can be disabled as well! So, and this may be redundant, are you also in favor of getting that disabled along with these other two "great and amazing features"? Lancer1289 23:25, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yup. I hate it. SpartHawg948 03:09, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Two things...again
Yes I like that headline. :) But to the matters at hand. As I was going around looking at other wikis, mainly The Vault because I'm still playing New Vegas, I noticed something that we missed. Currently we don't have categories for the Blue Suns, Eclipse, and the Blood Pack. Considering the amount of articles they have, I think they are justified in having their own categories considering the amount of information they have on them. Also considering we have categories for Drones, Turrets, Mercenaries, and I think you can see where I'm going with this.

The Second issue I have to pick with you is CDN. Currently we don't have the news for January 26 - January 28. And after checking around on the net, it seems that we are the source for all of this information. No one else has anything earlier than the first data we have, the 29th. So what I was thinking is sending an email to BioWare and see if they have the information and if we can get a copy of it, hopefully.

So, as I always ask, "[w]hat do yo think?" Lancer1289 05:43, December 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sure on both counts. I'd say first we should just try to contact BioWare through normal channels (i.e. the contact options on their site). If that fails to produce a response within a reasonable amount of time, let me know, and I'll see what I can do about it. SpartHawg948 06:29, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

The Shepard article...
Hey, this is Kluutak, and elite wiki editor from Halo Wiki and Halopedia, I'm just wondering, maybe you should redirect Commander Shepard to just Shepard, since his name is not Commander Shepard. Ashley Williams's name isn't Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams is it? Just as David Anderson's name is not Captain Anderson. These are just suggestions to make the wiki better, anyway, good luck on keeping the wiki awesome and prosperous. Over & out ;P --Kluutak 05:03, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
 * Please refer to Admiral Hackett, Admiral Kahoku, Admiral Ahern, Administrator Anoleis, Captain Enyala, Captain Wasea, Captain Vorleon, Commander Rentola, Commander Vyrnnus, Lieutenant Locke, Lieutenant Durand, Sergeant Boortis, General Williams... I could keep going, as this is but a partial list, but I don't. The standard here at this wiki is to include, not exclude, rank from article titles. David Anderson, Ashley Williams, and Kaidan Alenko are special cases, as their ranks are subject to change, and therefor have some canon issues. Depending on how you played the first game, Ashley might be an Operations Chief in ME2, and Kaidan may be a Staff Commander, and Anderson is either an Admiral or a Councilor. So yeah... the two you named are the exceptions to the rule. SpartHawg948 05:11, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Well, you should at the least include their full name. "Admiral Stephen Hackett" for example. I would be happy to help so you don't have to do it all yourself! :) --Kluutak 09:01, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah I'm going to have to say no as well. We only learn Stephen [sic] from the Shadow Broker Dossiers and every other time he is referred to as Admiral Hackett. I'm also not putting Anoleis' full name into an article title, that is just way too long. As for the rest, that is what they are actaully called in game. The naming conventions are pretty clear on this wiki and just because something is done one way on the Halo wiki, doesn't mean we do the same, or we should follow your conventions. Each wiki is free to set up its own policies and its own way of doing things. Lancer1289 15:35, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. 1) Not to be nitpicky but... it's what I do: Steven (not Stephen) Hackett is likely not his full name. It's likely Steven (insert middle name) Hackett. So we couldn't really do full names, as we don't really know anyone's full name (unless middle names have been abolished in the future). 2) Even if we put in first names where known, that would only apply to two of the names above, Steven Hackett and Tadius Ahern. We also do, I just realized, know Anoleis' full name, as Lancer points out, which is another reason we don't use full names to name articles. 3) "Administrator Rannadril Ghan Swa Fulsoom Karaten Narr Eadi Bel Anoleis" is hardly a practical name for an article, wouldn't you agree? And we need a standard we can apply across the board. If we can't use "Administrator Rannadril Ghan Swa Fulsoom Karaten Narr Eadi Bel Anoleis", we also can't use "Admiral Steven Hackett". Gotta love those salarian names... SpartHawg948 16:57, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks for pointing out the typo, got to love sic tags, but I've got another salarian name for another clear example: Ledra. Ledra's full name: "Gorot II Heranon Mal Dinest Got Inoste Ledra". As Spart said, got to love salarian names. Since we are not going to put that into a title either, we aren't going to follow suit with others. Lancer1289 17:43, December 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Apologies for the messages Spart, I know you don't like the new notification system, and neither do I. My computers aren't liking me today. :( Lancer1289 17:47, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Your opinion
Where would you stand if I was to propose moving Captain Bailey to "Commander Bailey" to reflect that character's promotion in Mass Effect: Inquisition? -- Commdor (Talk) 20:45, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Crap... that's a good question. I'd suggest we do what we do with all other characters who have rank changes and whose "full" names we know (i.e. first and last names, like David Anderson, Donnel Udina, Ashley Williams, and Kaidan Alenko), but there's an added complication with Armando/Owen Bailey. Hmmm... I think, in this case, the best option would be to move the article to Commander Bailey, as you propose, and then to make sure and leave a redirect behind. SpartHawg948 20:52, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * I have a problem with that. Since we didn't move Tali's article to vas Neema or vas Normandy, for spoiler reasons, and left is as nar Rayya, I don't see why we should move this one as it is a spoiler for Inqusition. Just like Tali's would be for ME2. I really don't like that option as granted his rank changes, which is part of his name, but so does Tali's and we didn't move her article. Lancer1289 20:55, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * But the comparison is specious. In Tali's case, it's her name that changes. It's something that happens with all quarians. Her new name does not necessarily supersede her old name, as we see in the second game. "Captain" and "Commander" are not, as you suggest, "part of his name". They are ranks, fleeting and transitory. Your spoiler concern has some validity, but the Tali comparison has no merit whatsoever. It's a bogus comparison. SpartHawg948 20:59, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Look at it this way: When referring to Tali's actions in the first game, even much later, it would be reasonable to call her Tali'Zorah nar Rayya, as that was her name at the time. When referring back to something Bailey did while a Captain, you have to preface it, such as "then-Captain Bailey", or elaborate, such as "Bailey, a captain at the time", because rank is not part of ones name. I'm beginning to reconsider based on spoilers, but poor analogies and comparisons make me dig my heels in, so I'm still, as of now, supportive of a move. SpartHawg948 21:04, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

I'll make the proposal then and we'll see what happens. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:11, December 15, 2010 (UTC)

Me a spammer?
Well I finally got a responce from Wikia, apparently I'm a spammer as my emails, until the third I sent just about an hour ago, got stuck in their spam folder. Seriouly I'm a spammer? :P Anyway I've gotten them to disable the Read More sections and the category galleries. I've tried playing with the CSS Code to get it to lock out the image attribution links, but so far no luck. Currenlty the staff can't disable it? Curious isn't it. Anyway they are working on a feature to do so, and I'm hoping that it's a catching issue. I'll keep you updated. Lancer1289 23:46, December 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank GOD! No more annoying "Read More" sections! --Swooshy 15:37, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Good riddance to bad rubbish. :) SpartHawg948 16:02, December 16, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Lancer1289 16:25, December 16, 2010 (UTC)

Blood Dragon Armor in PS3
I know that this has been known for a while, but I haven't seen it, so it's new to me. What do you think about them saying that the Blood Dragon Armor is going to be included in the PS3 edition of ME2? My first reaction was that it was a typo. I mean, I can see the Inferno Armor being included, since it's already been released as DLC, but the Blood Dragon Armor? I think I should clarify that I'm not hating on the PS3 people. I think that the series deserves a wider audience, but it just seems like they're giving all the rewards to the new purchasers rather than the loyal fans playing on the 360 and PC. --Effectofthemassvariety 02:43, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm honestly not all hot and bothered by it. Of course, I do have the Blood Dragon Armor, so there's that, but honestly, we got it a year before they did. I'm not too terribly peeved about them getting some free DLC and all that. I mean, sure, as you say, it seems like now they are giving all the rewards to new purchasers, but the loyal fans have been playing it for a year now, and the loyal fans (and not the new purchasers) are the ones who can also play the first game. Last I heard, BioWare had no plans to come out with ME for PS3. So I try and take stuff like this with a grain of salt. SpartHawg948 03:08, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just to add to the statement about ME on the PS3. Since the 360, or console version of the game was published by Microsoft Game Studios, Microsoft still holds some rights over it. Granted EA published the PC version, and BioWare is a division of EA, but since MGS published one part of the game, the first release of the series mind you, they still hold rights over certain things, and I believe one is the right over console releases. Now since Microsoft makes the 360, do you really think they will give up those rights to its major competitor? Someone explained it to me in one of my game design classes earlier this semester. Lancer1289 03:15, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but I really can't see what that has to do with the topic of the thread... SpartHawg948 03:21, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * In your second to last sentence you stated that you haven't heard any plans to release ME onto the PS3. I figured I should share what I learned about why you haven't heard any plans about it. Lancer1289 03:30, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah... that explains it. That wasn't really anything having to do with the main point of the thread though, more an example used to back up a point. Nor was why this was the case a pertinent concern of mine, being more concerned with keeping it topical. That explains the confusion... SpartHawg948 03:34, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I didn't get the Blood Dragon Armor, so maybe it's just the fact that I've been deprived of something that the new purchasers are getting flat-out. After the game was released, I never had any hopes of getting the Blood Dragon Armor because I didn't preorder DA:O. I never had any hope of getting the Terminus Armor either, because I didn't preorder at Gamestop. I think that I'm just feeling a little scorned since my own reward armor, the Inferno Armor, was put out in a DLC pack, and none of the others were, as if they only think that the Gamestop buyers should get something special. I think that you do have a point on the fact that we have ME exclusively, and will have had ME2 for a year longer then them once it's released. I don't have a total problem with them giving all the DLC to them, although it is a little annoying. It may not be a big deal, in fact I know it's not, but once I heard about it, it just aggravated me to no end. --Effectofthemassvariety 18:06, December 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * Makes sense. Like I said, my perspective may be slightly biased because I do have those armors already. Well, who knows? Maybe, since this seems to be a somewhat unpopular decision on their part, BioWare will make the Blood Dragon and Terminus armors accessible to everyone. We'll just have to wait and see... SpartHawg948 21:17, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

You give people the benefit of the doubt...
...and look what happens. Well to be fair it did look legit, at least to me as Zaeed does say that word quite often. And my first revert was supposed to be an undo, not a rollback, curse by internet right now. This time using my laptop as a bridge for my desktop so I can get some necessary updates, so as you can imagine it's running very slow right now. The second and third looked even more legit than the first one, but I couldn't remember if Zaeed actually said those things. However you aren't upstaging me, I was prepared for two weeks, maybe he'd mature, but if you feel that longer is needed, then no need to say anything. Yes even with what he said, actually I didn't even think it was insulting, I thought it was actually kind of funny actually, the eye rolling type of funny. As in you give someone a change, and look what happens. Lancer1289 02:13, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

One question
Lancer directed me to you, and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind having an IRC channel set up for this channel. Feel free to have a poll for the rest of the community, I'm not making a channel if no one is going to be there :P BlackSoulBlade 00:02, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * I won't lie - I probably wouldn't use it much (though I'd give it a try, and who knows? I might like it), but if people here want one, I won't object to it. It would be best to ask for opinions on the matter, and the Forum:Projects or Forum:Policy Forum would probably be the best place for that. So yeah, if people want it, I'll support it. SpartHawg948 03:42, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2 Recruiting Tali glitch
I previously made an edit pointing out a possible glitch when recruiting Tali in Mass Effect 2, where the Geth Armature may not fire at you (I was not logged in at the time of the edit). You then edited my insertion stating that this did not work for you. Now I'm curious. When I put that in, I had forgotten that there was both a catwalk route and a ground route on the right side of the map. Which one did/do you take? I have repeatedly taken the right path along the catwalk and always encountered this glitch. J624 07:09, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I always take the catwalk. Never encountered the glitch. SpartHawg948 16:11, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * Coming from someone who also usually takes the catwalk, I have never encountered this either. The Colossus always seems to like to fire at me, no matter which route I take. Lancer1289 17:33, December 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't see any videos of this on youtube, so I wonder if anybody else gets it? I wish I had a good way to record my experience.J624 03:49, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

language policy
is it just me or is it silly to have a language policy for the mass effect wiki even though the games are rated M ?(In the US and excluding mass effect galaxy)just want to now your opinionShadow0470 05:36, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to jump in, but Spart is on a bit of a vacation for the next few days.
 * As to the question, I do not think it is one least bit silly. I personally do not want to see people using harsh and inappropriate language when discussion something on talk pages or in blogs. I would not want to see something like this: "[w]hat the (explicative) are you talking about? Just because I said that doesn't (explicative) mean that I..." anywhere as that is just uncalled for. We do not need that type of language here and frankly just because it is an M rated game by the ESRB, doesn't mean anything when it comes to our polices here.
 * It's actually nice, more productive, and IMO easier to have discussion where people don't swear, call each other names, or throw insults. "When deciding how to respond to an editor’s comments, consider how you would speak to a stranger face-to-face in public, as that is effectively what you are doing." That is what the policy says, and I believe that is extremely accurate. The language policy can also extend to calling each other names and just blatant insults against other users. If you are discussing something on a talk page, should you have to deal with insults, or use them yourself just because someone disagrees with you? I certainly hope not because then that really gets away, and usually very quickly, from the point of what the discussion was about. We have a language policy for a reason, to keep things productive, civil, and to keep people from being offended. Remember you are reading text not talking on the phone or in person, and that can, and has, lead to misinterpretations and misunderstandings.
 * Another way of looking at it is would you talk to your parents that way? Your Teachers/Professors? Your coworkers? Your boss? Your significant other? Something tells me that for at least a few of those, you wouldn't. If we are to be welcoming as a community to new users, others, and readers alike, is there any reason for someone to read a talk page and see words that they might find offensive, rude, insulting, etc.? No because that may discourage them from editing thinking that they might be insulted for asking something, posting something about improving an article, or any number of other reasons.
 * There are quite a number of things that the policy covers, and I feel that if it were to go away, then we would be much, much less productive community and one that wouldn't be as welcoming. Lancer1289 06:04, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * As for my opinion- No, it isn't silly to have a language policy even though the games are rated M. Simple as that. SpartHawg948 16:37, December 26, 2010 (UTC)
 * yes i see thank you for responding so fast i just wanted to hear about other peoples opinion about this Shadow0470 02:20, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Hey
Well I have returned and will hopefully become a full time member of the wiki this time. Oh and one thing. This wiki has the biggest amount of nerds I have seen on a wiki and because of that I think I can finally fit in haha.(Just kidding)User:Sniperteam82308/Template:Sniperteam82308

Problem with Lancer1289
I don't know how to handle this and I think I need help from another admin. I spent 12 hours yesterday dealing with Lancer1289 over what seems to me to be an insignificant issue, and I think he's abusing his authority as an admin to bully me.

A brief summary: I'm playing ME2 and noticed that the four planet pages on which there are shops (Omega, Citadel, Illium, Tuchanka) don't have links on their pages to their shops. Thinking this merely a technical oversight, I went ahead and added them. Lancer immediately removed them, claiming doing so violated the Manual of Style for planets because shops are not notable locations. I proposed changing the MoS to allow this, as I felt shops are notable. The discussion, primarily with Lancer, is here: Mass Effect Wiki talk:Manual of Style/Planets. I know it's a lot to read, but doesn't it strike you that Lancer has gone off the deep end?

If you want to skip that, the next step is that I proposed a compromise: instead of a list of shops on the planet page, a simple link to the Merchants Guide sub-listing for that planet. Unfortunately, that page is just for ME1, so I added a nicely, if simply, formatted list with the ME2 locations. Lancer deleted this because it didn't conform to Lancer's stylistic preferences! Lancer even deleted the separate page I created, Shops in Mass Effect 2, on the grounds that this "should" be on the Merchants Guide page. The discussion there Talk:Shops in Mass Effect 2 is even more aggravating; he is demanding that I collaborate with him on his perfect ideal of a Merchants Guide in order to have a list of ME2 shop locations at all.

Is this seriously how a wiki is supposed to work? Lancer demands prior consultation on all changes because he's an admin, demands other people submit to his work routine, and takes any suggestion that he's being overly aggressive as a dire personal insult. I feel abused, and that he's giving this site a bad name.

I've cross-posted this on Tullis' and DRY's talk pages. Hythloday1 17:00, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

The thing is that Lancer sometimes advocates decisions primarily due to being an "economic" admin, in that he wishes to minimize the amount of articles to the wiki by combining two such articles. But he's a little over the top with this. As for the Merchant's Guide article, I'm equivocal in the matter myself... yes because the info contained in your article can be interpreted using the same style guide as for the merchant's guide, but no (and I'm more leaning towards this side) because shops in ME1 require licenses to purchase items while in ME2 that requirement is omitted, even though each shop has its own set of items. H-Man Havoc 19:10, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just a quick question to the first poster: Have you gone through "proper channels" on this one? Meaning: Once Lancer pointed out the Manual of Style (and this also applies for changes to the Merchants Guide, by the by), did you then begin a discussion in the Forum:Policy or Forum:Projects, where changes are proposed, discussed by the community, and voted on? That'd probably be a big step in the right direction, so that's what I'll throw out there for now, before having actually read the relevant discussions, as the lack of proper discussion in this seems pretty glaring. SpartHawg948 19:18, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Short answer is no.


 * Medium-length answer is this is the first I'm hearing of the existence of these things or the propriety of doing so; Lancer mentioned neither during yesterday's lengthy discussion.


 * Long answer is, having skimmed through the subjects on those forums, my proposed addition of a couple shop links seems way below the level of importance of everything else there, I considered (and still do) them to be pretty minor technical changes and everything else has been bending over backwards to deal with Lancer's (in my opinion) bizarre demands. Hythloday1 19:24, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * So... that means what, exactly? You did ask for my input, after all. And I (the sole active Bureaucrat, i.e. the one person who outranks Lancer, Tullis, and DRY) did say that the best course of action was to use those Forums. Trust me, if I suggested using them, there's a reason. This stuff is not "way below the level of importance of everything else there". Stuff like this is pretty much why those forums exist. Again, I would strongly advise you to go about this through proper channels. SpartHawg948 19:28, December 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Relax, I was just explaining why I had approached it that way. Seems very different from other wikis I've worked on, but as they say, when in Rome.  I guess I'll go start a post in Forum:Projects. Hythloday1 19:37, December 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Please don't tell me to relax. Intended or not, it comes across as a bit condescending. And if you really wanted me to relax, I wouldn't be dealing with this nonsense on my first day back from vacation. I was merely a bit miffed, understandably so, that nowhere in your response was any indication that my advice would be heeded, and one fairly big indication that it would not be (the whole "having skimmed through the subjects on those forums, my proposed addition of a couple shop links seems way below the level of importance of everything else there" thing). A simple "I'll do that now" or "I'll get that started" or an "Ok" would have worked, as opposed to your entire "Long answer". You can see why I might have become a little irate, I hope? I don't think I was being unreasonable in my expectations. SpartHawg948 19:45, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Would it help if I saluted? Seriously, this is the most joyless group of admins I've ever encountered. I am working on the Project proposal now, please try to treat me like a human being and not something you scraped off your shoe. Hythloday1 19:51, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Which is what I've been doing. It works both ways though. You asked me for input, then when the input seemed to be not what you'd expected, the response was rather lackluster, with no indication whatsoever of whether or not you intended to act on it. Being blown of is never fun, nor is being addressed in this manner (being told to relax, and addressed with snarky comments such as "Would it help if I saluted?"). I'm trying to help you, and am being given grief for it. I actually support your proposal to add ME2 shops to the Merchants Guide, though I must say that the manner in which I am being treated here makes me somewhat reluctant to express said support. I'm not some sort of enemy here. I'm not Lancer1289, who you have a problem with. Common courtesy works both ways. All I asked for with my last post was some hint of whether or not my advice would be heeded, and then you responded with your last comment, which was totally uncalled for. SpartHawg948 19:57, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict): I hope SpartHawg948 won't mind me jumping in here, but I keep reading your comments and it seems that you insist on having the last word in, and most of the time dismiss any claim that does not conform to your point of view and adding a redundant statement. I've been active on this wiki for about two years (on and off) and never have I encountered any of the admins being unreasonable. The issue here is that you insist on seeing them in that way and don't try to understand what their comments on your inquiries. The admins should not go out of their way to complement and/or comment in a way that suits you. --silverstrike 19:59, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * My last comment is aimed at User:Hythloday1, of course... --silverstrike 20:01, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Spart:Man oh man is this ever silly. It's the internet, folks. The overall level of snark I'm providing is pretty minimal. I think Spart and Lancer would both live longer if they'd unclench a bit. I realize being an admin on a wiki devoted to a video game is a tough, grueling job that you were drafted into at gunpoint, but can we maybe, just maybe, work on not being offended when someone doesn't behave exactly as you expect?
 * Silver: I've appreciated your voice of sanity in all this. But there's a line between honest, expressed disagreement with some levity and the kind of closed-minded ranting that you're describing, and I really believe that no objective observer would put me in the latter camp. Hythloday1 20:07, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * With responses like that to someone who is trying to help you and has actually expressed support for your ideas, I can't possibly see why you'd have issues with someone who disagrees with you. I've tried, and all I get is rude comments in return. I'm done. Thanks to Silverstrike for trying to be the voice of reason, but apparently that effort failed. Hythloday1, if you need any assistance, you know where to find me, or Lancer. Tullis and DRY haven't been active at the wiki for quite some time, so any issues you have would need to be handled by active admins, and there are only two of us. If there's nothing else, I think I've had enough of this for now. With friends like these, who needs enemies? SpartHawg948 20:16, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

CDN comes to an end
Thanks to Changonauta, who was browsing through the BioWare Forums, and I've just confirmed it via my PC, it seems that CDN will come to an end on January 24. However there will be posts for one week leading up to DLC releases and two weeks leading up to the release of Mass Effect 3. I am sorry to see this feature go and you can read more on the Talk:Cerberus Daily News page. Just figured I should pass the message along. Well I guess all good things must come to an end eventually, but I am going to miss this feature. I'm not sure about you, but I did enjoy reading the stories every day. Lancer1289 19:11, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, thanks. I picked up on that from the identical sections you left on several other talk pages. :P SpartHawg948 19:12, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Hmm...I don't know why it took so long to save on your talk page. Or for that matter, why it removed the last two sentences from the post. I don't know, Wikia does weird things sometimes although the last two sentences I can explain with a bad copy paste. Just figued I should tell you, and our two people who copy it down every day. Lancer1289 19:15, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I didn't read it half the time anyways, so oh well. We'll just have to figure out something else for the front page. Maybe move the FA or something. But yeah, rest assured that once the info was posted three other places, I already knew about it. Posting it here was a bit superfluous. SpartHawg948 19:17, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I forgot about the main page. Man we had that all worked out so nicely didn't we. I guess we'll have to discuss what to do about that. Maybe move the FA into where CDN is currently, but then there will be posts. Oh I don't know, I guess we'll have a discussion about that at some point very soon. Lancer1289 19:20, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * I was thinking we (and by we, I mean Dammej) could set it up so the main page displays a random report from the pool every time someone revisits/refreshes it. The randomizer would be turned off during the three weeks we get new CDN reports, and if ME3 doesn't provide an equivalent news service, we would then discuss removal or replacement of the CDN section on the main page. But that all depends on 1) Dammej can do such a thing, and 2) y'all approve it. -- Commdor (Talk) 20:25, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Two thoughts: 1) I'm personally not a fan of that idea. I don't really like randomizers or the thought of using one to display a random CDN article on our main page. 2) Proposals like this (IMO) would be better suited for the forums in which they would be discussed and voted on, if for no other reason than to spare me constant new message alerts. SpartHawg948 20:29, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
 * Just jumping in here. Many wikis (why am I always the guy who says "well this wiki does blah blah blah") have a sort of "trivia pool" on their front page. It displays bits of trivia about the games or creator or whatnot, and you can refresh it for new trivia. Not really my favorite choice, but something has to go in CDN's vacant throne. Arbington 00:04, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

RE: Voice Actor Information
According to http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1540125/fullcredits as well as many other places I have visited, Mark Meer also provided additional voice roles for Mass Effect 2. Niftu Cal AKA the "Biotic God" sounds almost exactly like Meer. Especially when he says the line "I shall toss Wasea about like a rag doll!". This may not be in the in-game credits due to the character's minor appearance. But you can clearly tell it is Mark Meer providing the voice without proof or not. I suggest you take a listen for yourself and see if you see the resemblance. If you know a place to find proof then that would be a start to confirm this. Thank you. --81.102.228.43 09:54, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * "Additional Voices" =/= "Niftu Cal", nor do audio comparisons (which, by their very nature, are subject to opinion) constitute proof. I've listened to it several times, and it's simply not conclusive. You need a good, credible source (and no, IMDB is not credible enough on its own... we've had issues with them in the past and have confirmed that they will publish easily disprovable falsehoods as fact, with absolutely no fact-checking on their part). If you can't come up with a source, it can't go in the article. SpartHawg948 09:57, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Without the rights sites that is not an easy thing to do. But given from what I have heard. It must be the same voice actor but understand the concern. You may know a place that may offer the "proof" needed. What places would you consider a source of proof? --81.102.228.43 10:12, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Official BioWare sites and forums (bearing in mind that if a forum is used, the comment must be by a BioWare staffer, and clearly labeled as such), websites of legitimate publications that fact-check (IGN, Gamespot, any of the big game magazines), official websites of voice actors (again, official sites, not fan sites), we've even been known to accept Facebook pages and Twitter posts so long as it's verifiable that the page belongs to a valid source (i.e. someone at BioWare or one of the voice actors - basically, someone who could reasonably be expected to know). Stuff like that. No blogs, no fan sites, no forums (unless it's an official BioWare forum and the post is by a staffer), and no sites known to print false or inaccurate information as fact (which would include IMDB, unfortunately). SpartHawg948 10:20, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

That again may be hard to narrow down. I can not get the proof needed as fast as you may think I can. The internet is a big place and I do not have such contact with staff members or the voice actor himself (at this time for that matter). There may not be any proof at this time but it is indeed the same voice actor. I have also discovered a similar situation with the Turian at Zakera Cafe who also appears to be voiced by Mark Meer (refer to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9ExACjVKo&feature=related and listen closely to the conversation at 2:35 - 3-03). Perhaps you yourself could look into this for a moment to see if you can find any proof on the matter. It seems you know the right places to look where a I am not as familiar. --81.102.228.43 10:37, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * Not really. I was just throwing out examples of acceptable sources. I generally don't mess with voice actor information (other than to make sure that when someone else adds it, it's sourced), so I really wouldn't know where to begin... which is precisely why I wasn't adding the info myself. Again though, just listening to characters and saying "This turian sounds like it could be Mark Meer" doesn't mean, or prove, anything. It's certainly not permissible for an article. So no, even if I had the inclination to look for a source myself, I really wouldn't know where to begin. This is why, in cases like this, the burden of proof rests entirely with the person adding the information, not with the admins who remove it for not being sourced. SpartHawg948 10:42, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

I can not see any other way of showing it. As unlikely as it is to be false information, I respect the fact of needed sources. My own sources were from what I picked up and worked out myself as well as finding several claims from sites such as social.bioware.com and many other Bioware community sites. --81.102.228.43 10:56, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Edit on Horizon/mission page
Hello sir,

I have recently made a point of note in the forementioned article, about squadmate being ther first one to get paralized by seekers, then being found later again unharmed.

May I know why was the edit in that Trivia section removed?

Thanks in advance!

P.S. I tried making a talk page in the Forums, however I'm quite new to this whole Wikia system and I don't think I've got it right, "Forum:Squadmate on Horizon" was the name of the page, and I don't see it at all in all forum sections, however another creation attempts reveals that the page already exists.

Could I have some help with that, please? Eudaimonium 12:49, January 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Your addition to the trivia was based on speculation (which is not allowed - see the Manual of Style for more) and in my opinion not formatted as trivia.
 * If you want to discuss issues issues relating to articles, then just enter its talk page (you have a link at the top of the article), also please remember to sign your comments with four tildes (~). --silverstrike 12:42, January 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, thanks, I have gone through a very high number of articles on this Wiki, and I did not think it would break any rules since, for example the page I just backtracked from, about HW M451, makes a refference about it being a refference to a book called Fahrenheit 451, which is a speculation (I don't see any outside refferences). In any case, I have only written the facts which are there, squadmember being put into stasis then found later at the end of the mission, I did leave out all the speculations to the Forum page, where you have replied (thanks for that). Signed: Eudaimonium 12:49, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * If you see something that does not conform to the wiki guidelines, feel free to remove it or discuss it on the relevant talk page. --silverstrike 12:54, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I think you're misunderstanding the meaning of speculation. Speculation is making assumptions about actions, intents, behavior, events, etc, within the fictional Mass Effect universe. Suggesting a link between a flamethrower with the designation 451 and a book called Fahrenheit 451 where books are burned is not speculation. It's pointing out a possible correlation (and, if I may say so, a good one: a flamethrower called 451 and a book about burning books named Fahrenheit 451). On the other hand, suggesting that the Collectors intentionally paralyzed Kaidan or Ashley first is speculation.
 * In addition, your edit was undone for numerous spelling and grammar errors, and because, once the speculation had been removed, it simply did not meet the guidelines for trivia on this wiki. SpartHawg948 18:05, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually, I never said anything about "intentional", about the whole paralyzation thing, also I was very careful about grammar and spelling. I guess I've failed. Okay so, how would one point out that fact, without making speculations (oh and, I know what they are, but thanks anyway), about them? Former squadmate was seen paralized, along with many humans, who were either taken, or encountered later but still paralyzed, but squadmate was later seen unharmed? I thought I was being pretty objective in the stated point of interest (This is what Trivia section is for, correct?) but apparently it was not enough. I just gotta get that off my chest.
 * Oh. I see now. It was one of those grammar errors that made me think you said it was intentional. The part where you said "How did Collectors, having taken forementioned one third of the colony population, oversaw the very first victim of their attack, is uncertain." was very confusing, and made me think you were asking how the Collectors intentionally oversaw the paralyzing of Kaidan or Ashley. Now I realize that you were asking how the Collectors missed Kaidan/Ashley when they abducted the rest of the colonists. Very confusing indeed.


 * As for speculation, the reason I pointed out what it is, is because the "example" you provided (the M-451 Firestorm and the Fahrenheit 451 trivia) is not even close to being speculation, so I wasn't sure. Now, as to the item in question: There really isn't a way to include it. Now that I understand what you were trying to say, it's clear that what we have is not trivia, but a statement of the obvious. Basically, what you're doing is restating what happened (that Kaidan/Ashley is the first person seen paralyzed [as we don't know whether or not they were actually the first person paralyzed], and that they are still there after the ship left) and saying that the reason this happened is unknown. And that isn't trivia. The forum you posted the info in later is the perfect place for it. An article, on the other hand, is not. SpartHawg948 19:14, January 3, 2011 (UTC)


 * Oh, I'm sorry for making it confusing, yeah you understood what I meant, there are some minor imperfections in my English which result in major errors in communication, I thought that when you say "oversight" it autimatically implies some sort of mistake one did, missed or forgot something. Bear with me, non-native English speaker here :) In any case, could somebody clarify what exactly is "Trivia" section for? Also, can I view the oroginal text before editing, so I can see where I made mistakes? Thanks for having patience with me, guys :)
 * Trivia, as far as the site is concerned, is information that the average person might not have been aware of, but that could be interesting or impactful to their understanding of the story, plot, or to external (i.e. real-world) references and inspirations. The key point there, as far as your Horizon info is concerned, is that the info should be something the average person isn't really aware of. Something obvious like the fact that Kaidan/Ashley is the first person we see getting paralyzed, but that they are still on Horizon when the Collectors leave, does not qualify, because it is information that literally everyone who has completed the mission is aware of. Thus, it is not trivia.
 * As for the second part, your request to "view the oroginal text before editing, so I can see where I made mistakes", I'm not sure what it is you are asking. Is there any chance you can rephrase the request? SpartHawg948 04:20, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * I believe that he is referring to the History function by the way he is talking, but I could be wrong. Lancer1289 04:25, January 4, 2011 (UTC)


 * Indeed, the "original" is what I mean, the text I wrote before it got deleted, so I can see what I wrote (didn't save it anywhere). So that piece of information would not qualify as Trivia... Oh well. I just found it very ackward and truth to be told, I didn't realise that after first playthrough, only second, thought it would be good idea to point it somewhere out. I guess Forum discussion page will have to do. Eudaimonium 10:19, January 4, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok then. Just follow this link and you will be able to see your original text. Lancer1289 17:35, January 4, 2011 (UTC)

Hello
You invited me to become a member in the community, whether the message i got in my talk page was automatic, i don't know, but i will reply here to. I don`t really have a reason to sign up because i don't see how i could contribute to the cause, besides fixing minor errors. Thanks anyway.109.253.133.153 19:11, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Biographies
I realize we already have dossiers on characters for various games, but what about general facts about the character's past, job, stats that are part of the Mass Effect story irregardless? Is it possible to put a "Biography" section prior to listing the games? Thanks --Misterkhalil 05:19, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * We already have those kinds of things included in the articles already. Dates of birth, former jobs, their past, what we know that is are all already included in the Dossier sections. Garrus and Tali have two, one for ME and one for ME2 with updates from ME. I really don't see a need to change the way the articles are structured right now as everything we know is included already. Not to mention there will be issues about where to place the biography section and then dealing with spoiler tags. The current layout still accomplishes that and doesn't have those issues. Lancer1289 05:27, January 6, 2011 (UTC)
 * It all depends on what information we're talking about. Much of it is already covered, and a lot of it is also located in other, more appropriate, venues such as the Shadow Broker dossier pages where it can be found in its entirety. When this is the case, we provide links to it to allow people easy access. If it's information that is relevant, but is not currently present in the article (or linked to in the article), then I don't see why it can't be added. If it's already there in one form or another though, like the info on Miranda's fertility issues, then it doesn't need to be added. This is one of those things where, without more info or context, I'd have to label it a "case-by-case" issue. SpartHawg948 06:34, January 6, 2011 (UTC)

Spam Articles
Since this happened twice today, and I can't find anything to support this in the various logs, but what is the policy behind blocking users who create spam articles. I know the policy when it comes to one time vandals, but I was wondering what to do about this. If you think this is an inappropriate place, then fell free to email if necessary. I'm not talking about the misspelled Natroth page, but the other two that I deleted earlier. Lancer1289 19:46, January 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Same as the policy for any vandal. Block them for two weeks. If they do it again, block them for three months. So on and so forth. SpartHawg948 19:48, January 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok then, I just wanted to make sure before I did something about the two users who did make those articles. Like I said I couldn't find anything in the deletion and block logs about it, but I probably didn't look hard enough. Lancer1289 19:51, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Blocking IP Address
SpartHawg948, This is Throwback. I am writing to inform you that for reasons unknown to myself that my IP address has been changed to 76.126.8.35. I think that when Comcast reset my modem, they may have changed the IP address. Regardless, please update your block log and place a block on this IP address. Thank you. (FYI The fourth planet of the Caspian system is spelled "Almarcrux", not "Almacrux".)
 * Rog-o. Thanks for the heads up. SpartHawg948 20:29, January 9, 2011 (UTC)

My problem with Lancer
I want to talk to you about Lancer. He is being a jerk and delete's anything no matter how useful it is that anyone puts. He is like "No, I don't want people's ideas. I just want to edit this wiki all by myself!" Wiki's are meant for other people's ideas for god sakes! That is what makes a great community but I am sick and tired of useful notes being deleted just because "He can't take credit for getting it down" on "His wiki". --81.102.228.43 06:42, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict x2)As Lancer pointed out in the edit summary he left when undoing your edit, the information you added had already been removed after a lengthy community discussion. He didn't just remove it because he didn't want your ideas, and I can assure you that he doesn't want to edit this wiki all by himself. If that were true, I never would have made him an admin. But I did make him an admin, because he is a valuable member of the community who has contributed much, and as such, he has my full support. I think you are mis-characterizing this, as I see nothing personal about it on Lancer's part. The note he deleted was not useful, which is why it was deleted some time ago. As far as I can tell, this is the only item you have added that has been deleted by Lancer, unless I am missing something. If I am missing something, or you feel your concerns are not being adequately addressed, please let me know. Thanks, SpartHawg948 06:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)


 * Wow and again with the rudeness. Spart just to say that this user readded the Nihlus trivia between Nihlus and KotOR II's Nihilus. Which as you know, was removed per the discussion on the Talk:Nihlus Kryik page. I removed it again because of that discussion, and stated that in my edit summary. "see talk page as this was removed per discussion". Then the user, who most likely didn't read my edit summary or read the talk page, proceeded to come onto my talk page, break the language policy, and insult me, which he did again here. He also is the one with the voice actor information above, and you removed that more than I did. Lancer1289 06:54, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh and just pointing out that I'm an admin, while Spart is a bureaucrat. Which means that he's higher on the pecking order than me and will probably give the same answer about the trivia. As to the rest, I have no idea. Lancer1289 06:55, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Addendum - when someone comes to me with a concern about someone, especially another admin, please let me address the situation before anyone else responds to the matter, particularly the person the message is concerning. Thank you. SpartHawg948 06:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'll remember that in the future, but I wasn't sure if you were on or not and may not have been aware of the situation. Lancer1289 07:03, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Regardless of whether I am on or not, as soon as I am, I'll instantly be aware of the situation, thanks to the message notification, and I vastly prefer to deal with the original post, rather than having to wade through responses and counter-responses. Additionally, given that this is concerning an admin, as opposed to just any old editor (which means that I am literally the only one who can deal with the issue), there really is no reason for further comment until I respond. The point of the original post, after all, wasn't to initiate a conversation with you about the issue on my talk page, but to communicate with me, and I'd just like to tackle the original concern. If there is need for further comment, or my response itself is something you'd like to comment on, cool. But when someone comes to me with a concern about an admin, it really doesn't do to have that same admin come on here and confront that person before I can respond. We've got to maintain an air of propriety, after all. SpartHawg948 07:10, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * Again I'll remember that in the future. Apologies. Lancer1289 07:13, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * No worries. These things happen. Though I must say, this situation does surprise me. All this over one undo of info that was removed after a lengthy discussion that is still right there on the talk page... SpartHawg948 07:17, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Greetings!
Thank you for the welcome. I am new to this wiki and I'm having a bit of trouble finding my way around so I'm sorry if I make mistake from time to time --Jenny D Shepard 15:00, January 10, 2011 (UTC)
 * No need to apologize! It happens to everyone. I make more than my fair share of mistakes, and I've been here longer than just about anybody else. Making mistakes from time to time is perfectly normal. That said, if you ever have questions about anything, please don't hesitate to ask me or one of the other admins. We're always happy to help, and after all, we're here for you! :) SpartHawg948 19:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Thank you mister! I just really want to help out! I've beaten both games countless times and I've only just been able to get reconnected to my computer after a long time. I'd be great to find some other people who feel the same way about it.
 * You just reminded me of a guy I used to work with. You know the type, the office (or, in this case, unit) cut-up. Always had something funny to say to lighten the mood. Any time you'd tell him something or give him something he needed or anything like that, he'd respond by saying "Thanks mister!" all enthusiastic-like. Good times. So, thank you for that delightful memory! :D SpartHawg948 20:30, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Anytime "mister" ;D I hope you can help me out in future as I am currently a level of a noob. Oh and I'd just like to say: I'm commander shepard and this is my favourite wiki on the internet!
 * Well, that makes two of us! On the favorite wiki part, not the Commander Shepard part... :P SpartHawg948 20:40, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Apologies.. I just have to make reference to that line! I often say it when I go shopping. "I'm Jenny Shepard and this is my favourite store in South Carolina!"
 * No, no need to apologize. It was pretty funny. And it is a classic line. I just can't really use it because it doesn't work nearly as well with my username as it does with yours. SpartHawg948 20:57, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Dr . Warren, etc.
OK, you win.

Zulu DFA 10:10, January 14, 2011 (UTC)Zulu


 * It's not a contest, with winners and losers. Literally all I am doing is asking that you abide by the same policies that everybody else who contributes to this site does. SpartHawg948 10:15, January 14, 2011 (UTC)

Funding vs. Budget
In case you forgot, we were having a very instructive discussion on my page, and I'm still kinda awaiting your response, mister. If it's more convenient, we can continue it here on your page. Or we can just pretend that juvenile talk about petty something never happenned and replace a certain section title with a more appropriate term I've accidentally come up with. And no one is the wiser.Zulu DFA 00:04, January 15, 2011 (UTC)
 * Totally missed your response. Now, as to your last point - if you accidentally come up with a more appropriate term than Funding, please let me know, and I'll see about getting it changed. The only alternative you have posed thus far is, regrettably, actually less appropriate than Funding. SpartHawg948 00:30, January 15, 2011 (UTC)

Now I know what you mean
And now that things have calmed down a little.

When you talk about long and detailed edit summaries, especially undos, I do know what you are talking about now. I'm guessing that I'm some of yours but this has been happening a lot with me recently. And it really is annoying. I guess I have to learn to type faster.

Also random question that maybe you would know. I was reading something lately, can't remember where, but it brought up an old question that has been on my mind for a while now. Can someone transfer between branches of the military, such as from the Army to the Navy? And if so, do the keep the same rank, or equivalent like Major to Lt. Commander? I know this seems random and out of the blue, but I can't remember what triggered this the first time, and it has just been something that has been bothering me for a while now. Lancer1289 02:33, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, people can transfer from one branch to another. It doesn't happen often, but it does happen. And yes, the rank generally stays the same. An O-4 in the AF would stay an O-4 in the Navy, or whatever. SpartHawg948 02:40, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok thanks for putting that to rest. Lancer1289 02:42, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

I'm touched you thought about me :)
Hello gracious admin. I can only apologise for my absence, I just got onto a really gruelling degree course (veterinary medicine, eeep) and it's been draining a lot of my time. My latest work is on my blog, if you get curious you're welcome to have a peek *hint hint*. Phylarion 22:51, January 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Huzzah! No need to apologize, I was just wondering where all the old-timers were at. Veterinary medicine, eh? That's some serious stuff. Good luck with all that, here's hoping it goes well. I haven't looked into it, but I'm sure there's plenty of demand for vets. As for your blog, if you're referring to your latest post, I have seen it. It's been drawing a decent amount of comments, and I have to say, I do find it pretty humorous. Anywho, it's good to see you around, and while I do hope your studies go well, I also hope that you do still find the time to pop in on some sort of regular basis. :) SpartHawg948 23:02, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Explain this:
You seem to be the one to ask about this: On Legion's loyalty mission, you board a geth space station. A geth space station. Scattered throughout this station are organic medkits. Why would there be organic medkits on a geth space station? Have they been placed there by the gods of plot convenience? --Swooshy 00:58, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Probably. Of course, this could also be vindication for my own private theory about what geth are really made of! (Hint: Substitute "Soylent Green" with "geth") They called me mad, you know... but I was right! I'll yet have the last laugh!


 * Ahem... now that we've covered that base: The likely "official" excuse, were you to press someone at BioWare for an explanation, would probably be that the station was originally built by the quarians, and the medkits are holdovers from way back then. Of course, that would mean that medkits stay good even longer than Twinkies, but that's a mystery for another day. SpartHawg948 01:15, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I've asked someone this question before, and they told me that the geth were studying organics. I doubt this to be the reason because the heretics do not seem interested in learning more about organics. Your theory makes more sense. --Swooshy 01:22, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm assuming you mean my second theory. No one agrees with my "geth are made out of people" theory. No one. :( SpartHawg948 01:27, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * People from which species? . . . --Swooshy 01:29, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes. A little here, a little there. They like to mix it up. SpartHawg948 01:31, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * IT'S THE MINI-REAPERS!!!!!1!!1!1111!!!ONEONEONE --Swooshy 01:42, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * Pretty much. Actually, I'm pretty sure the Reapers don't even exist. It's all part of a fiendish campaign of misdirection to distract people from the real threat, the geth. SpartHawg948 01:46, January 18, 2011 (UTC)
 * O SHI- YOU'RE ONE OF THEM! SHUN THE NONBELIEVERS! --Swooshy 02:20, January 18, 2011 (UTC)

You beat me to it!
I thought I was going to beat you to that revert on Legion's page. How foolish of me. --Swooshy 03:33, January 19, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I like to think of myself as the second fasted gun on the wiki in terms of the undo key. Lancer usually beats me, though. And don't feel bad. I've had a lot of practice! :P SpartHawg948 03:38, January 19, 2011 (UTC)

I GOT YOUR EVIDENCE
Happenstance or deduction? I knew I was right. Aethytal is Liara's "father". If you want proof check out the new DLC. Head to the back room of the shadow brokers lair, use the device and you'll see Aethytal drinking at a table while starring a picture of Liara.
 * That isn’t proof of anything. We have been saying the exact same thing since it came out, there isn't enough evidence to prove anything. See Talk:Liara T'Soni and Talk:Matriarch Aethyta for more. There are plenty of other, very logical reasons that Aethyta could have a picture of Liara, so thanks for dismissing other, equally valid explanations. Your "proof" has many holes and it not concrete evidence that Aethyta is Liara's "father". There are many other, equally valid explanations, which are listed on those two talk pages, but a picture isn't enough proof by any stretch of the word. Lancer1289 01:21, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * P.S. Spart, I really which this issue would just be done with already. Since the Kasumi thing finally stopped, so maybe this will die down in a few months. Lancer1289 01:35, January 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah... when I saw the "I GOT YOUR EVIDENCE" headline, I'd assumed that the "evidence" was going to be something new. Instead, it was something we've all known about since September of last year. Oh, and in the interests of accuracy, it isn't "Aethytal". It's Aethyta. Though I suppose you could be right, and this Aethytal person (whoever it is) could be Liara's other parent. There's as much evidence to support it being Aethytal as there is it being Aethyta. SpartHawg948 02:36, January 20, 2011 (UTC)