Talk:Ashley Williams/Archive1

What is the source of that e-mail quoted at length in the main article? I do not recall seeing it in the game. 209.195.164.34 23:42, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ash and Shepard reminisce?

"She is amazed that she and Shepard went to the same training facility and they can reminisce about getting yelled at by Gunnery Chief Ellison." Does this dialog actually happen in the game? If so, where exactly do you get this dialog? And do you have to have a specific pre-history?
 * When Ash asks why Shepard joined the Alliance, if Shepard says it was 'to see space', Ashley is reminded of her first trip to Titan and mentions her DI telling her off for goldbricking. If Shepard picks up on 'goldbricking', the commander remembers hearing that when Ellison thinks someone is shirking duty, and Ash can't believe she went to the same boot camp. I've had this dialogue with a female Shepard: a male might get a different response. --Tullis 22:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

I think you can get it on any profile and I got it with the defult male Sherperd and the defult female Sheperd so thats what I think once I get my Xbox fixed I will find out.Troy 027 03:54, 24 August 2008 (UTC) Troy 027

Ash's sisters
Do we want to do separate articles for Ash's sisters? We have enough for a decent article on Sarah (thanks to Ashley's loooong story and other bits) but, not sure about the others. Though I suppose we have an article for Shepard's mother and that's hardly any size. Thoughts? --Tullis 14:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Sounds good, maybe do a general page for Ashley's sisters (if we have anything to write about any of them) and just add as we go along... --silverstrike 15:57, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * About all that's said about Abby and Lynn is that the former is a ren faire girl ("likes waving swords around" and wears "tops you have to tie yourself into") and the latter is a bit nervous. Stormwaltz 20:46, 4 February 2009 (UTC)


 * Will the article on Sarah still be created?--Z0X 23:37, August 22, 2011 (UTC)
 * It already was and it was already deleted due to lack of information. See Talk:Sarah Williams. Lancer1289 23:40, August 22, 2011 (UTC)

Anti-xenophobia convincing?
Huh. I think I just managed to convince Ash to be less xenophobic. Male Shephard, 10 Charm, after the discussion where she tells him about his grandfather, pick the option "The alliance is right". Almost makes me sorry she won't be seeing Ilos.

Here,in Mass Effect wiki says interesting things about Kaiden and Ashley(about their false death on Virmire)...It says that BioWare provided Ashley/Kaiden does not die on Virmire....That´s good,isn´t???


 * Well, hate to say it, but I have no clue what you are talking about, mostly as a result of the broken english. No idea what "false death" is being referred to (one of them DID die, nothing false about it), so I'm gonna take a stab at it. The only thing I can think of that comes close to what you are saying is that BioWare confirmed that Ashley and Kaiden do make appearances provided they did not die on Virmire. What that means is that only one of them will appear in each playthrough, as the other died in the previous game, but it is possible to see them both in the game, just on different playthroughs. Import a game where Ashley died on Virmire, and Kaidan appears, not Ashley. Import a game where Kaidan died on Virmire and you get Ashley. Pretty straightforward. SpartHawg948 22:39, December 18, 2009 (UTC)

Why was this interesting tidbit removed?
I added this (included below) but was removed by a later editor. It was an interesting tidbit referring to gaming culture. Care to elaborate why, seeing as - in comparison - Urdnot Wrex's trivia contained speculation and subjective statement such as "fan favorite", whereas this is fact? Liara's trivia section also contain trivia in similar nature to below:

"When the player first meets Lorik Qui'in, upon inquiry of Matriarch Benezia and asking him if it was odd to see a matriarch, Lorik would comment that "An asari in a pinstriped suit set tongues wagging among the younger male employees..". If the player has Ashley in the squad at the time, she would interject with, "Young men have funny ideas of what asari are like. I blame the extranet. And computer games."

We can have a "Quotes" section and place the her quote there, since we [i]are[/i] quoting things. It's really discouraging when the point of the wiki is for everyone to contribute, but for a contributor to have his contribution edited out wholesale. If I took time out of my life to write that, the least one could do is take the time to make a Quote section to place it. 208.120.25.229 9:39 PM, January 31st, 2010 (EST)


 * I would say it was probably removed because it's totally irrelevant... I mean sure, it's a cute punch line... It's just not relevant to her character and it doesn't tell us anything about what she's like. JakeARoonie 03:25, March 20, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. And while the info on Wrex has been documented in other locations (such as the Official XBox Magazine, where he was named best sidekick), the one-off line from Williams is just that. A one-off line. No more or less notable than any of the other one-off lines uttered by any of the other characters, and as pointed out above, not indicative of her character in any way. SpartHawg948 04:30, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Ashley in Mass Effect 2 *SPOILERS*
I have to say, it was a double-edged sword that Ashley, or any of the other romances from Mass Effect 1, had such a small role in Mass Effect 2. She was one of the characters I really dug into in ME1, and really fit as a good romance for the character role I chose for Shepard -- she was smart, tough, beautiful, cleverly flawed and stubborn, but had her heart in the right place; she just, for me, represented everything a woman should be. By the first scene of ME2, I had realized that I actually missed this girl, and I was excited to see how her and Shepard would reconnect after his resurrection. The subsequent confrontation in the Horizon colony left me a bit angry. At first, I thought, "Really? That's just it? Was this BioWare's way of just phasing the character out to clear the slate for new romances -- where's the depth in that?" I have faith that Drew Karpyshyn does better writing than that. I withdrew from having Shepard romance any of the other characters, not just out of spite, but because it seemed shallow of him -- none of them really fit the character role he played as a Paragon. Tali comes close, I love her character, but as a romance option it just didn't quite fit into place. They certainly made Miranda into eye candy, but I like to think of the Mass Effect series as a TV series or movie trilogy -- if I was watching it, what would I think of Shepard's character if he went after every piece of eye candy available? I try to keep him true to his character role... flaws make the character interesting, but having him stray into another romance just for shits and giggles didn't really make for a believable Paragon Shepard, or a likeable character.

Then came the scene where Shepard smiles at Ashley's photo at the end -- what a rewarding scene that was -- and it put a lot of things into perspective for me. Mass Effect is all about making tough choices -- and some of these choices have unforseeable consequences. Some good, some bad, some niether. It's my belief -- or my hope, rather -- that there is a rewarding consequence for those who choose to stay faithful, or not, to the romance from ME1. Even if it makes Mass Effect 3 consist of the three disks, and takes much longer before release, I really hope that this is their intention. I can live without Ashley being a party member; what I really want is significantly more interaction, dialogue, development and depth between these characters that brings a believable sense of continuation, or closure, in their relationship.

If that's what is to come in Mass Effect 3, I believe the interaction in ME2 is brilliant. I'm sure BioWare realizes that the interaction with ME1's romance in ME2 will leave many players wanting more, and they plan to reward them in ME3. Otherwise, shame on you BioWare, what a wonderful character to cut out of the cast. MerrellJ 15:06, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Note that the framed picture on the desk in your private quarters likely depends on your romance history in ME1. I personally had one of Liara, with whom I had developped a relationship in ME1.Celorilm 15:13, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Shortly after your encounter with Ashley on Horizon, she sends an email to you apologizing for the way she acted. She also tells you she doesn't want to lose you again in the email. She'll be back in ME3, The devs stated that the Romance is told accross the trilogy, so I'm sure good things are to come for those of us who stayed loyal to Ash. Lord Saren101 18:19, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

If you cheat on you Mass effect love interest with a new one, then youll probably be confronted over it in ME3. With that in mind, I have to say if you cheated on Ash with Jack, then you'll probably be in for the most awkward and potentially dangerous situation of the games. Both will gladly kill you if you piss them off enough.

Something important to tell him?
In the romance cutscene of Mass Effect 1, Ashley says that she has something important to tell Shepard, but tells him that he'll have to come back to her after surviving Illos to hear it. Is it ever discovered what she had to say? I believe she wanted to tell Shepard that she loved him, but decided to tease him for it. Still, I was curious if there was a confirmed answer on this. Obsessed? No... of course not... but Ashley is going to have my babies in ME3. *pause* Just don't tell my wife. MerrellJ 15:20, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I think what she wanted to tell him was indeed that she loved him. But Ashley being Ashley decided to tease. I think we may have to throw down my friend because Ashley is already pledged to me :P Lord Saren101 17:27, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

Ashley is all of a sudden a bugger-lover? (semi-spoilers)
Sorry, Ashley-lovers, but did anyone else find it weird that the message in ME2 regarding her death quoted her as being all buddy-buddy with alien crewmembers? Ashley was a huge xenephobe- the evidence of her gladly going into battle alongside aliens is crap when she's already said she'd do that if that's what Shepard ordered. It's especially notable in my game where I played a girl who was all up on the blue chick, so I had to verbally backhand Ash a little extra. I can give some sympathy to Presley, since there's some actual evidence of his opinion changing (even if it does show Bioware whitewashing humans again). Ashley, though, was still a massive xenophobe in my game and I demanded she button her lip every time I spoke to her. Now all of a sudden she's lovingly remembered as a cool dude. I'm not happy with that. Revdrkevind 18:05, February 19, 2010 (UTC)

Depending upon your interactions and conversation choices with Ash in ME 1, it was possible to turn her from Xenophobic, to very accepting and comfortable with the Alien races. So much to the point where if taken for the final mission she recommends you save the council.Lord Saren101 19:42, February 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yet when you met her on Horizon in ME2 and have the long talk with her. you ask her to join you she'll refuse and say that she's not a fan of aliens. Shadowhawk27 21:02, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, that was a little confusing. Though she did seem even more wary of Cerberus, so perhaps she's just distrustful of everyone due to recent events. EDIT: To clarify, Cerberus was just an example of humans whom she distrusted even more than aliens, alluding to her current state of mind. She obviously would already be skeptical of Cerberus due to events in ME1. Ev0lve 21:08, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Even when Bringing Garrus and Tali along, Ashley will still feel betrayed that her former Teammates have joined the Enemy of the Alliance.Shadowhawk27 21:23, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

I'm impressed that you brought Tali to Horizon (/wink). I do feel that whichever writer crafted that conversation could have done a much, much better job. Ashley's character on the whole is still one of my favorites, though, so I tend to gloss over these hiccups. Ev0lve 21:25, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) So does Kaidan. GASP! Does that mean Kaidan is a xenophobe too? Or merely that both of them express surprise that so many people they thought they knew would now be working with an unscrupulous group like Cerberus? SpartHawg948 21:26, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Exactly! If you put yourself in her shoes (or Kaidan's, if that's the path you chose), it doesn't seem far-fetched that you would feel betrayed on a number of levels. Shepard shows up after being "dead" for two years, and the first she sees of him is that he's working with a group that they fought against together and is now rumored to be one of the suspects behind the colony disappearances. Ev0lve 21:34, October 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * I forgot to mention, the only way you can bring Tali to Horizon is by using the Gibbed save editor. Shadowhawk27 21:37, October 4, 2010 (UTC)

Tennyson = Babylon 5 reference?
Firstly, I apologize for making an edit before submitting this for discussion. If this proves problematic, I will undo the edit.

I was just wondering, does anyone here think that Ashley's quoting of Tennyson may be a subtle nod to Babylon 5? I ask because Ulysses was recited twice in the show-- first in the very first episode, and again in episode 405, and both times by the commanding officer. Is this significant enough for inclusion, or should it be dropped?

Some quick references:

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/guide/071.html

http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/making/literary.html

SuperLoNC 21:54, February 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can you provide the context in which it was used? So far you've pointed out that it was used twice in B5, which, were some more similarities present, would merit inclusion, although you also pointed out that both times it was recited by the Commanding Officer (which actually differentiates the two, so not sure why it was mentioned). So basically, if you can provide contextual similarities then sure, it can be included. Also, wasn't it quoted three times in the series? I believe it was quoted twice in Season 1. SpartHawg948 23:10, February 20, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'm all for including references, but I think Tennyson is more of a Tennyson reference. ;) For example if Rush Limbaugh recites Tennyson on his show and then I recite Tennyson later, it doesn't mean I'm making a reference to Limbaugh. Just means we're Tennyson fans. :P JakeARoonie 03:21, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

I'd say there's a fair chance it's a B5 reference, but not so much because parts of the poem was recited on B5 as well as ME rather than they both had a military officer with a mild obsession with the piece (Ash's father and Sinclair.) It was indeed quoted again in season three, this time by Sheridan remembering a note left on his desk when he first arrived (the implication being it was left by Sinclair.) Given how many other B5 references there are in ME, it seams likely that this was an intentional reference. 86.4.177.115 22:19, September 15, 2010 (UTC)

Ashley's eyes
Am I the only one who thinks maybe Ash has lazy eye? Admittedly it would be a strange thing to include in a videogame, and all throughout ME1 I noticed how her eyes didn't seem to both aim in quite the same place...I thought it was a glitch, but no other characters seem to have that problem, and she does it again in ME2 (though more subtle). Insert joke about her aiming skills here. But really, just wondering if anyone else noticed this. JakeARoonie 16:44, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Indeed. It does seem her one eye is a little off. I noticed that too. It could be a glitch, but there wasn't enough time with her in ME2 to see if it continued into the sequel. An interesting thought, otherwise. 131.44.1.69 11:43, March 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's a glitch. Something like that would generally keep someone from being admitted into the military, and it would certianly prevent them from leading the exemplary career Chief Williams has led. SpartHawg948 19:43, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Edit of Ashley page.
As I was half-way doing an edit of the article, I've noticed a large chunk of information - specifically under the personal file section - is rather out of place, only to realize after checking the history that the details is Bioware's official information. Having said that, I took the liberty to try and rewrite those details into the article proper (and placed any remaining information that don't belong anywhere under trivia) so as it would have a smoother flow and train of thought, but I'm not sure if anyone else would agree having official Bioware information being torn apart! It might be considered sacrilegious to some! LOL. Thus, I have not applied any changes to this page yet, instead, the edited article it in my sandbox, so I can get feedback on the proposed edit. The purpose of the edit is to ensure consistency of this article with other pages. It isn't perfect but at least I tried and hopefully the feedback will help improve things. The page can be found here. Thanks for the feedback. 11:00, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Ashley's Likeness?
I forget which one, but in one of the "making of" videos for Mass Effect, I recall a segment where the character animators @ Bioware are talking about animating Ashely Williams. On the guy's desktop there was a picture of a woman, although it was only a 1 sec flash but I do remember that woman looked like Ashely Williams. So I'm gonna assume that Ashely's likeness is from somewhere? Does anyone know who Ashely William's face is based on? Ubcphysicsyangbo 05:50, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nope. The only ME character I recall being specifically modeled after an actual person is Liara T'Soni. And, given that it was a one-second flash which nobody mentioned even though a segment about animating Ashley Williams would have been the perfect time to do so, I see no need to assume that the person on the desktop was a model for Williams. It could have been the guys wife, or sweetheart, or sister. No need to jump to conclusions here. SpartHawg948 06:06, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah know I know what you mean, it may have even been just a photoshoped face or something, but I'm just wondering that's all. It would be cool if there was some chick that looked like Ashely though...Ubcphysicsyangbo 07:13, May 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ashley is voiced by Kimberly Brookes. And she kinda looks like her in real life. Go compare and judge- http://ui01.gamespot.com/1760/picture4a_2.png That's what I think anyways. Eddo36 04:09, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * We can't use visual comparisons as fact. We only know that Liara and Miranda are based off real people, IIRC, so unless we have devconfirmation, we shouldn't add it. Lancer1289 04:18, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Oh definitely I'm not about to add any non-canon stuff, that's why I posed the question here :) Ubcphysicsyangbo 09:22, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had no doubt that you wouldn't have added it. The only reason I commented is the Eddo36 made a statement and it seemed like he would. I knew you wouldn't, but I had to make sure he didn't. Lancer1289 17:19, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * I had no doubt that you wouldn't have added it. The only reason I commented is the Eddo36 made a statement and it seemed like he would. I knew you wouldn't, but I had to make sure he didn't. Lancer1289 17:19, May 29, 2010 (UTC)


 * To add, the default male Shepard face is modeled after Mark Vanderloo. Even down to that scar at his hair line. - Ryuji2 17:18, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * To add to THAT, all the major characters are modelled after people. Kaidan is Jeff Zalzali, Jacob is Kenyon Glover, Miranda is Yvonne Strahovski, Samara/Morinth is Rana MacAnear, Kasumi is Kym Lane, Hackett is Lance Henriksen, TIM's CGI appearance is Jon Bridell (his in-game appearance is someone else, however), Tali's "face" is Hammasa Kohistani, James is Jamal Kazakh, Kai Leng is Michael Kroeber, and so on. Jack, Joker, and Zaeed also have face models (as their existence was mentioned by devs), but they are currently unknown. So yeah, that's definitely Ashley. We just don't know her name.

Please take things like this elsewhere as this isn't what talk pages are for and this has gone on long enough. Lancer1289 02:19, July 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ashley's Military Vocational Code in ME2
She was B4 in ME1, when she was Gunnery Chief. Now she's Operations Chief in ME2, I'm sure her expertise increased as well. Can we make a note that her "B4" only applies to ME1 for all we know? Eddo36 04:06, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well we don't know if B4 is still her vocational code. We don't know the Alliance's naval vocational code system, so again we don't know and that is speculation. And yes I know how military vocational codes work, just as a note. Lancer1289 04:10, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm just saying that the Trivia section in this page says that her MVC is B4. I'm just wondering if a note should be made that it only applied to ME1. Eddo36 04:15, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because again we don't know if it only applies to ME. Adding a note like that would be speculation and that isn't allowed. Lancer1289 04:17, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * No, because again we don't know if it only applies to ME. Adding a note like that would be speculation and that isn't allowed. Lancer1289 04:17, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

We have no idea how Systems Alliance Vocational codes work. As such, there is no reason to assume it would change with a rank or 'expertise' increase. If their system operates anything like the system I'm used to (the USAF's AFSC system), a rank increase wouldn't change her code at all. SpartHawg948 04:41, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, there's no reason to assume it wouldn't change either. It's unknown if it's the same in ME2 as in ME. Why not make a note stating that we don't know if it's still B4? That's what's done for the Collector Cruiser article in referencing the final collector ship encounter. Despite a line of dialogue from joker implying that it's the same cruiser, there's a note that we don't know (And rightly so. He doesn't know either.) What's the harm of a similar note here? Dammej 05:42, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again we don't know that it changed and until we know differently, a note saying we don't know just wouldn't do either. If we do here then we should put a note on Shepard's page saying that we don't know if his vocational code is also still N7 or not. Putting a note either way just don't cut it, because I didn't see a problem with it before this came up. Lancer1289 05:47, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

please don't yell at me! Well, Shepard hasn't done anything in the alliance since he, uh, died, but Ashley has. I'm not saying anything drastic, just:

''According to Bioware's official data, Ashley's Military Vocational Code is B4 and her Blood Type is B-Positive. She had received genetic enhancements including in-utero vision correction (maternal predisposition for nearsightedness) and Class-B Alliance Infantry Upgrade Package. It's unknown if her MVC is still B4 in Mass Effect 2''

If not, it's cool. But they way it's worded now implies that it -definitely- is B4 during Mass Effect 2, which may not be true. Dammej 05:52, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * How about we just leave it as is. I still don't know why this came up, but I don't see why the current version is bad becuase it eliminates speculation. Because we don't know let's not speculate either way. We know what it is in ME, and as Spart, who is in the military, said that he couldn't see why it would change and I agree. Let's just leave it as is because we can argue about this until the cows come home, and still end up in the same place, we don't know. Also to so a small use <> instead of []. Lancer1289 05:58, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gah. I knew I should have done a preview. *shakefist* Wiki markuuuuuuppp! Alright. I'll drop it. Dammej 06:04, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, on Bioware's website still retains it as B4 despite ME2 had released for a good 4-5 months. So, there's no reason for it to change yet unless we have new information. Teugene 06:08, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Let's just leave it as is,and I am still trying to figure out why this came up in the first place. Lancer1289 06:12, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Not that I doubt you, but where is this page on Bioware's website? I'm curious what else they have. Dammej 06:15, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Here is the link to the ME page: Mass Effect Home Page. This is the home page, click Galactic Codex, then scroll down and select Ashley. Or just click here: Ash's Page. Lancer1289 06:19, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, you beat me to it Lancer! :D Teugene 06:22, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry fast typer. Lancer1289 06:24, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah, I see. Unfortunate that they don't seem to be as involved anymore, keeping a "galactic codex" on their website with ME2. Ah well, guess that's what this site is for. Dammej 06:32, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed that is what we are here for. That is also why I emailed BioWare to add us to their list of Unofficial wikis. The Dragon Age Wiki is on there, so I saw no reason why we shouldn't be. Lancer1289 06:36, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well just saying that in general, the codexes on the ME1 page should be considered obsolete. They simply haven't updated any since ME1. I'm not just talking about Ashley's page, but in general of all the codexes there. Example- they didn't say Nihlus and Saren are dead on their page, the Normandy hasn't been destroyed, Mass Effect: Ascension is listed as "new". Like the old forums on their page, it's still there but all locked, since they moved their boards to social. Eddo36 22:02, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * That doesn't mean anything. And why would they change it, the ME seciton of BioWare's website, just like our opening paragraphs for any of our ME articles, is written from that perspecitive. It would be a spoiler if they did rewrite them, just like here. Also why should they be considered obsolete. If we take them as obsolete, then let's remove all the info about Ash that was from that site, because it is no longer relevant. And ever other page with info from the BioWare site while we are at it because they are obsolete. Yea, I don't think so. It would be removal of valid content. We haven't learned anything new and as Spart, who is in the US military, USAF, it probably wouldn't change. We don't know so we leave it as is, until we know something different or there is a new update. Again I am still trying to figure out why this was even brought up in the first place. Lancer1289 23:33, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: ALso if we changed the opening paragraph of the SSV Normandy article to say whyere what it was destroyed, that is one of the largest ME2 spoilers. The same thing applies to the Saren and Nihlus Kryik articles. Putting that they are dead pre massive plot spoliers and it shouldn't be changed. Taking aht info and making it obsolete, we would have to remove all info from each and every article that had info from those entries, as it would be no longer relevant. That isn't going to happen, and those entires are still valid. Lancer1289 23:41, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

You seem to be getting worked up over this. I don't understand why. It would just a tiny note that we would say we don't know if her MVC changed in the two years time between the events of ME and ME2, and would obviously only be placed after the Mass Effect 2 information. I personally don't think it would be that big of a deal to leave a note there.

As to why this came up in the first place: Why does any issue on a wiki get brought up? Someone sees something that they feel might be wrong, so they either change it or bring it up. Not everyone thinks of things immediately. It's why I was able to upload more images from the game the other day. I noticed they were missing from the article, so I uploaded them. Similarly, someone noticed that nothing has been said about her MVC possibly changing in ME2, so they brought it up.

I doubt very much that Eddo was suggesting we remove all information that comes from Mass Effect. You're taking his valid comment that Codex website is out-of-date way out of proportion. It's true. The fact that the Codex is out-of-date has allowed us to update the articles on Saren and Nihlus Kryik to later include information that they've died. This information occurs after a spoiler tag, just as any other plot-revealing note would. I suggest you start assuming people are making comments in good faith instead of immediately categorizing everything they say as an awful idea. Dammej 00:15, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Addendum: I apologize if that comes off as combative. I've just seen several of your comments being needlessly dismissive of suggestions from other users. I realize that you have poured a lot of time and edits into the wiki, and I wouldn't count that against you. But you have to remember that people other than yourself have good ideas as well. That's all I mean to say. Dammej 00:37, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit confilt) No I'm not getting worked up over it, no need to worry about that. However a note is just speculation becuase again we can't prove it one way or another. A note would just be specualtion, and I don't know how many times I have removed edits that say "well we just don't know for certain.", or something along those lines. If we don't know then why even say anything about it all together, because usually someone starts a debate just like this. A note would just be speculation either way because again we don't if it has or hasn't. However we again don't know how the vocational code system of the Alliance Navy works, and with Spart said earlier, two years and a promotion doesn't necessary mean her code would have been changed. Again we don't know either way so I really don't see a problem with it the way it is.
 * Also I do assume that people are making comments on good faith however when I saw, "the codexes on the ME1 page should be considered obsolete", in my head, I saw that we should consider all of that information on the ME site obsolete, when it isn't. The information is still very valid and unless we have an update on Ash's status, we shouldn't guess if her vocational code has been changed or not. Unfortunatly we all fall victim to assume different things and that is what I saw. You saw something different and commented on that. Lancer1289 00:43, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * To respond to Dammej's addendum,: I do see it as a little combative, however you are making a point, and I prefer people who acutally say what is on their mind. I know that some of my responses have been combative, but so have Spart's and many others, but some people make asumptions about our policies, then edit, and then complain when it gets reverted. I do realize that people have good ideas, and any and all are welcome. I don't enforce my agenda on this site, nor does anyone else. I simply uphold our policies, as does everyone else, and this one does fall under speculation. I am stating my opinion and that is all. I see somehitng good or even great in some cases, I leave it, becuase it is good and in some cases needed. If an edit ciolates policy then I, and anyone else for that matter, reverts it, or modifies it appropiately. I don't enforce my agenda, nor does anyone else. Lancer1289 00:53, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * By "obsolete" I meant the codex page of ME1 site applies only to the year 2183, that was all. Eddo36 01:18, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok then, because that was very confusing. However again we don't know if the code has been change, or hasn't for that matter. A note would be speculation either way, and in this case, it would be against policy. I really don't see what the problem is with the way it is currently and jsut saying something like "however we don't know if that is still her vocational code in ME2," would be speculation because we don't know. Until we have more info, and based on past instances with unknown items, we leave it until we have something new that affect it. If BioWare put up something about Ash and her vocation code changing, I'd be the first to change it, however we don't so again usually we just leave it until we know something different. Lancer1289 01:28, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well this subject goes beyond Ashley's MVC, but other things in ME universe. There should be a specified timeline for the contents here, just a suggestion. Eddo36 01:34, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you mean, becuase we do have a timeline here: Timeline. Granted it's a general overview, and doesn't get into specifics, that is for articles. However, is that what you were refering to, or am I misunderstanding you again? Lancer1289 01:41, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't mean a Timeline of Events page that you already have. I mean just listing what year this specific piece of information (in this case that Ashley is B4) applies to. She wasn't B4 in 2150 when she wasn't even born, and the ME universe encompasses more than one year. Eddo36 01:50, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * What exactly do you mean, becuase we do have a timeline here: Timeline. Granted it's a general overview, and doesn't get into specifics, that is for articles. However, is that what you were refering to, or am I misunderstanding you again? Lancer1289 01:41, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't mean a Timeline of Events page that you already have. I mean just listing what year this specific piece of information (in this case that Ashley is B4) applies to. She wasn't B4 in 2150 when she wasn't even born, and the ME universe encompasses more than one year. Eddo36 01:50, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Ok, so here's what I'm thinking: This is what we know of the Alliance Vocational Code system- "A soldier's MVC indicates proficiency, not rank. The letter notes career path; the number indicates level of experience, as indicated by service record, technical scores, and commendations." Now, we have no indication that anything other than her rank has changed. Nothing is mentioned about enhancements to her service record, technical scores, or her commendations. As such, any assumption that those have changed is speculation. Therefor, any edits made to the article based on those assumptions would also be speculation. Just trying to put this in policy perspective here. SpartHawg948 01:54, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Ok I'm still not sure what you are asking however I'll take a stab at it. Do you mean a timeline of when information is considered relevant? If that is what you mean then that article would probably overload the sever that this wiki is on because it would have to cover every piece of information we have. An article like that wouldn't be good because then every new piece of information would have to be evaluated for how long it lasts. I think, and don't quote me here, the policy currenly is that info is considered fact until we have something that contraditcts it, updates it, or removes it all together. Again don't quote me on that, but that is the general polciy that seems to be around here. Spart need a comment on this one.Lancer1289 02:02, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't mean create a whole new enormous article. I just suggest add the year-note INSIDE the current articles with information that pertains to a short time period. For example, just put in parenthesis (as of 2183) or something next to where it says "Ashley is B4" on Trivia section. Eddo36 02:08, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

But how do we know this only pertains to a short time period? At that point and rank in a military career, a vocational code change doesn't happen that often, at least not in the contemporary US Military, much of which the Alliance military is based off of. SpartHawg948 02:10, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree, we don't know how long it lasts, and I managed to get in contact with one of my cousins in the navy, currently on liberty. He is going on 6 yeas now, and he was a petty officer third class, now a petty officer first class, and his vocational code has never changed. Lancer1289 02:14, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well by "short time period" I don't mean few years etc. I mean that it isn't forever. Ashley wasn't B4 in 2150 when she wasn't born, and ME universe does span through that year and more. Eddo36 02:16, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

Well of course she wasn't a B4 when she was born, but the info is pretty specific as to when it takes place (i.e. well after she was born) and there is 0 indication that it has changed in the two years since. We're talking the pertinent years here, not years that take place before 2183. SpartHawg948 02:19, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

As long as the info is pretty specific of when it takes place, that's all I was saying. So if they make a ME prequel during First Contact War or Rachni War or something, the info would be less confusing due to not being updated since Ashley isn't B4 during that time. Eddo36 02:21, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict)Additionally, you have to consider that the article states that "According to Bioware's official data, Ashley's Military Vocational Code is B4". Inserting a bit that states that this is the case in ME implies (if not stating out-and-out) that BioWare's official data states that she was only a b4 in ME. Given that the only official BioWare data we have on the matter states she is a B4, and there has been nothing from BioWare to suggest that this data is not still accurate, I don't see why this is even an issue. Additionally, I should hope that her vocational code at the time of the First Contact War and the Rachni War wouldn't be an issue. After all, as you yourself pointed out, she wasn't a B4 before she was born! :P SpartHawg948 02:25, May 30, 2010 (UTC)

The source of the e-mail №1
What is the source of that e-mail (to Sarah Williams ) quoted at length in the main article? I do not recall seeing it in the game.--92.225.60.85 14:35, February 5, 2011 (UTC)
 * The Source is Ashely's article on the BioWare's Mass Effect Site. See here: Ashely's article at the BioWare site. Lancer1289 17:49, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

Seeker Swarm Sting
How did Ashley managed to nullify the effects of the seeker swarm sting, while up to that point only Shepard knew about the Collectors and their Seekers to begin with? Is this a pointer to Alliance involvment, is Ashley a traitor, or isn t that even Ashley at all? This really bothers me because it would be a great inconsistency in the plot and the writing of the story. She is stung, paralyzed, but yet shows up at the end as if nothing would have happened, she doesn t even mention it. Any input on this?
 * Maybe when the Collectors left, the effects nullified. On the other hand, another theory is that it wears off after a time. I highly, highly doubt Ashley is a traitor or that the person we see isn't Ashley. I really can't see how it is an inconsistency when there are a number of things that could logically explain it. After all we see Ashley getting stung and then the colonists recovered afterward so there are again many possible reasonable explanations apart from "a great inconsistency" two of them I presented above. In addition, doesn't medication wear off after a period of time? Lancer1289 17:30, February 28, 2011 (UTC)


 * Exactly what I was going to say. Could be that the paralysis wears off rapidly and requires the seeker swarms to re-sting people constantly until the Collectors can store them in pods; when the Collectors have to leave and the swarms are taken away, everyone recovers in a matter of minutes. Whatever the actual explanation, I'm sure it's nothing so out there as "Ashley is a Collector" or "the Alliance is in on it". -- Commdor (Talk) 17:44, February 28, 2011 (UTC)

Spectre
Where was it confirmed that ashley becomes a spectre in ME3?


 * PSN magazine. It's one of the top blogs on the wiki right now. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 03:12, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * A link to the blog probably would have helped so the user could read further. Lancer1289 03:15, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't happen to keep track of blogs I've viewed several hours prior, as I've other things on my mind in the meantime. Otherwise it would've been done, or rather I'd just've sent the commenter to JakePT's page. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 03:17, April 24, 2011 (UTC)
 * It's just a helpfulness thing. Since the user did question where we got the information, it would have been a good idea to provide the user with a link to the blog so the user could read where it is from, and possibly learn more information that they haven't yet. Some people don't know the ins and outs of a wiki so they many not know where that specific blog is, so giving them a nudge in the right direction is helpful. Lancer1289 03:22, April 24, 2011 (UTC)

ME3 Ash screen?
Anyone cares to insert GI's pic of Ash from ME3 to this page? http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110411043426/masseffect/images/9/94/Ashley_Williams_in_Mass_Effect_3.jpg 62.68.172.41 21:22, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

No, the pic is to low quality.--Legionwrex 21:26, April 27, 2011 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) Yes I mind as it's super low quality. I will say it again, just because we have an image, doesn’t mean we have to use it. Especially one that is grainy and low quality. We can wait for higher quality shots. Lancer1289 21:28, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Beat you to it by two seconds lancer.--207.200.116.73 21:32, April 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ashley Picture
I Found a sligtly better version of ashleys ME3 picture not sure weather its good enough too insert into the article ?--DC 00:18, June 9, 2011 (UTC)




 * I think we'll be holding off on adding any ME3 images of Ashley in the article until we can expand the ME3 section, but I'd say this is better than anything else we've had, looks a screenshot. I went ahead and cropped it for use in the Characters article. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:48, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ok no problem that makes sense, (She Look Much Better With Long Hair Didnt Expect That) thanks for responding Commdor--DC 01:20, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Has Bioware even confirmed this is Ashley and not a Female Shepard? The July 2011 US/Canada PC Gamer implied that it was a female shepard when it made a crack at the "bust slider" in charachter creation or something--24.224.193.106 02:26, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes that is Ashley. Lancer1289 02:28, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Rank of Lieutenant
Ash seems to have been promoted to Lieutenant as Anderson is referring to her by her rank over the radio when trying to call the Normandy to pick them up from the damaged harbour. This was in the the demo.
 * My perspective here is: sure it was in the demo. So? Lots of things are in demos. Including things that end up not being canon. All sorts of things were in the demos for the first game that weren't actually in the finished product. Remember all those miners on Caleston we were going to save in ME? I do. Too bad it never made it into the game. Silly demos... SpartHawg948 09:40, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Well silly me. I guess they'll just have to make Keith David rerecord all his lines where he refers to Ashley by Lieutenant. Silly me.
 * We'll just have to wait until ME3 is released, or until a dev says something for this to be confirmed. Lancer1289 14:35, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Absolutely. I was simply pointing out that it appears she's a lieutenant - not that there was mountains of irrefutable proof that she is a lieutenant :P. Cheers Lancer.
 * And I was doing the same: pointing out that it appears that she's a lieutenant, and that there is not a mountain of irrefutable proof that she is a lieutenant. So we seem to be in complete agreement. SpartHawg948 23:20, June 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * And as for re-recording lines, well... not necessarily. They could just not use the dialogue you're referring to. They did have to do that with the example I cite too, didn't they? All of the dialogue from Ashley, Garrus, and Shepard which was used in the demo didn't make it into the game, after all. :P SpartHawg948 23:22, June 9, 2011 (UTC)

Ah... actually, she's a Lieutenant-Commander. Possibly he's just calling her Lieutenant for short. --JimmyTheCannon 03:37, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Spectre?
This feels like speculation to me. I just read the magazine scans and couldn't find any confirmation that the info was confirmed by a developer. That entire section is full of speculation and little jokes. Unless you take it as fact that you will be able to "sex 'Liara' up till she's blue(r) in the face".


 * The GameInformer article on ME3 clearly states Ashley/Kaidan will be spectres in the game. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 11:36, July 2, 2011 (UTC)
 * I have the article in front of me right now and it says nothing about either Ashley or Kaidan being a spectre.


 * Check the June 2011 issue of Playstation 3 Magazine (UK Edition, Issue 140) if you have it. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:05, July 2, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've found a download of scans of the magazine here. On page 8 of the .pdf, the infobox for Kaidan Alenko states "Like Ashley, Kaidan dates from the first Mass Effect, and will appear if you saved him at the end instead of her. Both characters have been remodelled, and both have been promoted to Spectre." -- Commdor (Talk) 22:46, July 2, 2011 (UTC)

As well as in all the trailers they are wearing armor similar to Tela Vasir's that have the Specter symbol on them.--Xaero Dumort 04:56, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

I read the PSM3 article which is exactly why I think this is speculation. James Sanders is also identified as the sniper from the first trailer in this article, but that's not true. This article is the only source I can find for this little tidbit and it has no confirmation or secondary sources. I haven't seen the Spectre symbol anywhere on the new design for Ashley or Kaidan, but even if it's there, without developer confirmation it doesn't belong in the wiki.


 * But that's only one error, and it's not the only source I've seen make that mistake. I don't think it makes sense to doubt the rest of this source because of one error, especially when many other things in it are backed up by multiple sources. -- Commdor (Talk) 06:01, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * What other source backs this claim up? Did any other interviewer manage to get this quote?  Which developer confirmed this?  Is there a line in the demo where Ashley/Kaidan is referred to as a Spectre?  Is there anything other than this throwaway pic-caption that can even remotely suggest that Ashley/Kaidan is a spectre?  I've admired the dedication of this wiki to only allowing proven facts.  I think everyone here can agree that the enforcement of the rule of confirmation has been strident.  By that standard, removing this uncorraborated statement should be a no-brainer.


 * That would most likely be found in the BioWare forums, as BioWare devs regularly contribute on there. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 12:32, July 3, 2011 (UTC)
 * I still don't see any reason to doubt this one part of the source if so much of the rest of it is spot-on. The Spectre info conflicts with nothing we already know, and it seems like a rather out-of-the-blue detail for a game news outlet to just make up. I recall that in the time before ME2 released, one game site reported that the geth from the first ME2 trailer would be a squadmate, but many did not believe it because the article had a few errors. Yet when ME2 was released, did we not get Legion? I've looked around for a developer's word on the Spectre issue, but have been unsuccessful. I did, however, find this, which supports Xaero Dumort's assertion that the Spectre symbol is on Kaidan's armor. It may not be developer confirmation, but it certainly backs up the magazine's statement. I'm more convinced now that this info is valid, and will oppose its removal unless a developer outright says it is wrong (preferably), or Spart or the community overrule me. -- Commdor (Talk) 19:18, July 3, 2011 (UTC)

In the trailer that showed Normandy rescuing Commander Shepard from Earth showed Ashley had a Spectre symbol on her chest at 5:19 .71.184.217.18
 * I don't really care if it's removed really, but if it's here it needs proper confirmation. I just don't think this information passes the standard set by this wiki.  I like to come here for information free from speculation and rumor and don't want to see that standard watered down without a fight.


 * That symbol on Ashley/Kaidan's chest could be a spectre emblem, and for the sake of argument I'll allow that it is in fact a symbol of spectre's. Is this symbol on the picture the "source" of the spectre information?  How did it get there?  Do you know?  Did she/he just get some knock-off armor ala Conrad Verner?  Unlikely perhaps but possible.  We shouldn't need to get developers to confirm that something ISN'T true. We take confirmation to prove things are true and if there is any doubt we don't include it.  At least that's how this ought to work, otherwise this site is no better than a hundred others crowing about possible multiplayer inclusion.

Sparta or Lancer, chime in whenever you like.


 * Lancer has been absent for some time, and though I know of no editor called "Sparta", I'll assume you mean me. I have no strong feelings one way or the other. At present, I'm prepared to accept Commdor's judgement on this one. He has presented a valid source. One piece of incorrect information does not invalidate the entire source. So they used the image of "Big Ben" to represent James Vega, which we know to be incorrect. Does this one error automatically invalidate the entirety of the article? No. That one tidbit is invalidated because it is overridden by the developers themselves. I've seen no such overriding of the item stating that both Kaidan and Ashley have been promoted to Spectre. (Though not simultaneously, of course!) SpartHawg948 09:46, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Sorry for the "Sparta", SpartHawg948; typing Sparta or Spartan is force of habit for me. As for the rest, so be it. It's your wiki.
 * Not really. It's the community's wiki. I just help keep things more or less organized. And, judging by this thread, the community seems to support the inclusion of Ashley's Spectre status. SpartHawg948 06:45, July 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * Well, it must be right then. I'm still curious as to why no other media outlet in the world has reported anything remotely like this, and why Kaidan's and Ashley's alternate uniform don't have the alleged "SPECTRE" symbol anywhere on them (but I never saw anything like that on Ashley in any case).
 * Kaidan and Ashley's, what I'm assuming default armor as it is the one we've seen them in so far, includes the Spectre symbol. Kaidan's is visible in the picture linked above, and Ashley's is viable in the video. As to why they don't have it on their alternate outfits, who knows really apart from BioWare. And as to why no one else has reported it, perhaps it was overlooked, or the fact that it is in one place, it doesn’t need to be elsewhere, but it's more than likely the former. Lancer1289 21:48, July 5, 2011 (UTC)


 * I've never heard of a media agency not reporting something just because they got scooped. If it's one place normally it's reported everywhere.  The only time this doesn't happen is when the source isn't properly vetted and no one wants to go caught having to make a retraction.  I also doubt this could be overlooked since this info is alive in the internet forums concerning ME3.  Every other piece of information no matter how small has been reported and rereported at least three times in the past two months.
 * As for the "Spectre" symbol, what does that even mean. I've played ME and ME2 several times and always as a Spectre, and I've never seen Shephard adorning himself with this symbol. I've never seen a piece of equipment labeled "Spectre" with this symbol on it either.  I don't think this symbol necessarily has to mean that whatever it's on is "Spectre" quality or is a part of the Spectres, but again, I'm just raising questions.  I don't want to countermand the judgement of the "community".

Wish I had an answer for you and I did look, but I know there is a specific reason that we know that to be the Spectre symbol.--Xaero Dumort 03:19, August 23, 2011 (UTC)

Lieutenant Commander or Lieutenant ?
Somebody told me according to leaked beta Ash is a Lieutenant Commander. If so the given details about her rank (in ME3) is incorrect. -- 13:10, November 29, 2011 (UTC)
 * Key words there is "leaked beta". We do not accept leaked information under any circumstances. Lieutenant is the confirmed rank, not Lieutenant Commander, and therefore that is what the article will continue to say unless a dev says otherwise. Lancer1289 14:05, November 29, 2011 (UTC)

This page confirms Ashley as a Lieutenant Commander as well as Alenko as a Major. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1839558/fullcredits#cast
 * See my comment here about IMDb being used as a source alone. It isn't acceptable. Lancer1289 12:50, January 26, 2012 (UTC)

Not really a registered member here, but the NEW version of the official website confirms she's a Lieutenant Commander. http://masseffect.com/about/story/ 121.44.226.54 03:57, February 10, 2012 (UTC)


 * I've updated the article. -- Commdor (Talk) 04:12, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Rank
The mass effect 3 codex says she was promoted to Lieutenant commander after the battle of the citadel...is operations chief a role not a rank?
 * No it's a valid rank, see Codex/Humanity and the Systems Alliance. And I think you aren't reading all of it. Lancer1289 22:02, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdmszu9HfmI&list=UUZUntTjD4Rp2FZNtWye1JGw&index=1&feature=plcp


 * That constitutes leaked info at this point, the game is still over two weeks away from launch. But nothing in there contradicts the Codex entry Lancer cites. If Ashley was promoted from Gunnery Chief straight to Lieutenant Commander, that only means she skipped some ranks. -- Commdor (Talk) 22:51, February 17, 2012 (UTC)

New Ash pic
I found this pic



i think with a little cleaning up it could do nice
 * Yeah, I don't think that is official. It looks like fan art and fan art isn't acceptable. Lancer1289 12:45, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Its not fan art its a screen shot from the new CGI trailer, considering we don't have any other cgi ones on articles I dont think it will be put in the article (up to the admins though). JediSpectre117 13:21, February 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Well I haven't seen that one, but you are correct. We don't have any other screenshots like that, and consider we'll take the in-game shots at all times, this one probably isn't the best. Lancer1289 15:38, February 20, 2012 (UTC)

No, it's from the CGI trailer, it doesn't look anything what she looks like in-game, stick to in-game pictures

Repeated Picture Change
Whoever is constantly changing the picture of Ashley Williams, please stop.

Also, the link to the picture is broken now, it seems. --AnAutisticTeen 14:03, March 7, 2012 (UTC)
 * Nevermind... --AnAutisticTeen 14:04, March 7, 2012 (UTC)

Bug on Crew Select screen
I'm playing on the PC, and on the Crew Select screen, when you view Ashley's info, her passive class skill is listed as Arms Master (James Vega's skill) instead of Alliance Officer. The reverse is the same - Vega's is listed as Alliance Officer instead of Arms Master. Both are greyed out regardless of whether the character has ranks in their passive skill or not. Anybody else see this? --JimmyTheCannon 03:39, March 12, 2012 (UTC) Yeah, this bug is getting on my nerves. Does anyone know if it effects anything or if it just greyed out? --Shane For Wax 13:44, April 23, 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I have that bug too, but on Xbox.--The Forgotten Jedi 04:01, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Gifts to Ashley ?
When Ashley is in Hospital, you can buy some Gifts for her, on the shop in the Hospital entrance. I bought Flowers, Chocolates and some Books, and then Shepard offered her the books. Do they have some influence in Ashley relationship ?
 * Yes they can have an impact later during Priority: The Citadel II. And the clue about what to buy her is what she is always quoting in ME. Lancer1289 12:14, March 20, 2012 (UTC)
 * Do you mean that on all gift items, there is only one good choice ?
 * There is only one correct choice. IIRC, I don't have access to the game or the book right now, but it is the Tennyson Volume. Or something like that. Just pick the Tennyson book thing and you should be fine. Lancer1289 18:17, March 20, 2012 (UTC)

Ash's Armor
Just a question... I know Bioware has stated that Ash's Vocational Code in ME1 is B4, but as was said it could have changed since then, and all of her costumes in ME3 have an S1 logo emblazoned on them, that looks to be a similar style to Shepard's N7 insignia. It may be nothing, but should that be added into the article as a footnote or something? Ataki Uchiha 17:12, April 21, 2012 (UTC)

I personally don't think so. After all, what would S1 even mean? There's no point mentioning it until you find out what it stands for. --Shane For Wax 15:19, April 23, 2012 (UTC)


 * Presumably it would be Ash's ME3 vocational code... N7 is Special Forces tier 7, S1 would be Soldier tier 1?  That was pure speculation, though, so I'll take it onto the forums.  I just thought I'd see what the wiki thought about Ash's S1 logo. Ataki Uchiha 15:21, April 23, 2012 (UTC)

Ashley/James implied hook up?
I heard this rumour during the early days after the release but never managed to find any proof. Apparently if Ashley is not romanced it is implied that she has a fling with James Vega. I managed to find a video about James' dialogue where he's cooking breakfast where it actually seems to be implied.  So should this information be put in the the page? Diain 09:50, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * No. It's the same as implying that Shepard is romentically involved with Doctor Chakwas because they shared a drink together. Twice, even. It's nothing more then baseless speculation. --silverstrike 09:58, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Err....didja see the video? He's cooking her breakfast. And the line I think, is,"She's going to need it after what happened last night."
 * Furthermore, if Shepard is in active romance with Ashley, you still get the scene with Ash drunk on the floor, and Vega still cooks, but he does not mention anything about her needing the food. The extra bit of dialogue when Shep is not romancing Ash has to be there for a reason. Diain 14:01, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * eh, NO. first thing i see while drunk browsing the wiki is this? this is what happened: ash and james had a drink, ash evidently has lower alcohol tolerance than james, james wakes earlier and starts cooking breakfast. with alien eggs. nothing about romance implied or whatsoever if you cared to listen to the dialogue. Temporaryeditor78 14:06, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * Wait, the dialogue changes depending on whether or not she's romanced? There's no other factors?Fair field fencer F F F  22:26, May 3, 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I remember. In my game the conversation that locks Ashley's romance into place happened quite late, so it's hard to reload and check again, but I'm certain that this was the case.Diain 05:01, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

I'm with Temporaryeditor78 on this one, I got no impression of an "implied hook up" between Ashley and James. The video lacks context. James just shared a bottle of something with Ashley, and she goes overboard. You find her passed out on the floor of her room and she tells you what happened. -- Commdor (Talk) 05:41, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

All right allow me to explain. In my game the bit with Ash passed out on the ground and James cooking, and her mail about meeting on the Citadel occur after the same mission, all at once. (As in I get back to Normandy, talk to Ash on the floor, then go back up and mail's in the box). When I speak to James without meeting up with Ash on the Citadel, and I get the above dialogue, as in the video. If I speak to Ash on the Citadel first, thus triggering the romance and fixing it, and speak to james after, he makes no mention of Ashley AT ALL. The fact that the conversation changes by the triggering of the romance with Ashley has to have some significance.117.214.187.95 06:33, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict):This scene is just before the option to lock the romance with Ashley. Immediately after, you receive a message from her on the private terminal where she invites you to dinner, which is where the option to "lock-in" the romance is possible. The scene plays out exactly the same regardless of romance option or Shepard's gender (as long as she is on-board the Normandy).
 * Conversations aboard the Normandy are time sensitive, some of them can be repeated and some will only occur after certain mission or on other conditions. --silverstrike 06:41, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * That was me above. I forgot I wasn't signed in.
 * All right maybe I'm not able to get my point across. The conversation with Ashley on borad the Normandy when she's drunk, does not change no matter what (just like you've said). However what James says changes, based on whether you speak to him before locking in the romance, or after locking it in. If you talk to him before locking it in (that is before meeting Ashley on the Citadel), you get the above conversation. If you talk to him after you've met Ashley ont he Citadel and locked in the romance, you get a different dialogue where all mentions of Ashley are removed.
 * NOw all that I'm saying is that the fact that the lock-in of the romance with Ashley plays a part here has to be significant. Diain 07:24, May 4, 2012 (UTC)
 * think of it this way. the (second) simplest reason any mention of ash is omitted if romanced is because vega wants to avoid any hairy situations with shepard. out of respect for superior officer or simply out of respect for his drinking buddy's boyfriend. whatever interpersonal motivation that fits. the simplest reason? scripting oversight.
 * we're delving into subtext here but since the original argument is an attempt at one... Temporaryeditor78 13:15, May 4, 2012 (UTC)

No romance despite not rejecting Ash in ME3
Reading whats in this article it seems like Ashley should be available if you're not talking to anyone else. Well with my current Shepard she hasn't sent me any invitations at all. I romanced her in ME1, nobody in ME2, and didn't buy her the book of poetry in ME3. When she asked me in the hospital if we were still good, I chose the bottom option where Shepard says "maybe we should start over". So, I guess she takes that to be a rejection? Because I just finished the Thessia mission, and she never sent me an email at all for meeting up on the Citadel, either with her sister or for dinner. I didn't read anything in the article that would seem to be the answer here, considering I did not "cheat" on her in ME2 and simply didn't go with the sappy "oh ash you are the only one for me :))))))))))" in the first conversation at the hospital. I also chose the paragon responses for her when she confronted me on Mars about past work with Cerberus. It would seem theres a way to screw up romancing Ashley, even if you are trying to romance her. 108.75.6.129 07:45, May 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ashley's fate in ME3
What happens to Ashley if you reject her as asquad member? I don't recall ever getting a closure for this, and she wasn't among the former squadmates whom you can contact before the final mission. Could this imply that she was on the Citadel when the Reapers took it and is dead? --Ygrain 13:43, June 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * She shows up as a war asset. Trandra 14:28, June 12, 2012 (UTC)


 * Yeah, I recall that, but afterwards? --Ygrain 14:39, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * We don't know, and that topic belongs elsewhere. Lancer1289 16:28, June 12, 2012 (UTC)
 * Care to explain where, then? I'd like to edit the page and add information that if you recruit Ashley as a war asset, you won't have a chance to talk to her later on. It was rather baffling not to have her on the list of people to say your final goodbyes to, but since I've done just a single playthrough, I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something. Besides, Kaidan's page does not have the information, either, so I'd really like to know where I whould ask this question.--Ygrain 07:41, June 13, 2012 (UTC)

Confirmation of James-Ashley Romance?
Confirmation of James-Ashley Romance?

Would it be possible to get a confirmation of James and Ashley romance? This is of course assuming that Shepard hasn't romanced either.

I am so F%#$ing pissed about this! I don't care what anyone says, either get verification from the developers otherwise, or accept the fact that it's implied that soemthing happened between the two of them! I can't believe my Shep was faithful from ME1 through ME3 to learn about this crap! If it wasn't for Garrus constantly flirting with Tali, I would've said screw this and went for her! Ashley 'letting her hair down' and being a really fun person for Vega, oh I wanted to airlock that MoFo so badddd!

ashley and vega did not have anything at all period!!! they are comrades/friends that just had a drink togther.some people are just reading way more into it than whats really there and haters are just using it as ammunition to rag on ash since the "racist" argument has been debunked so many times. there is nothing to "confirm" it was harmless charecter interaction. you really think Bioware would have ash cheat on you under your nose if you were loyal? no they wouldnt and Didnt do that! vega says it himself shepard asks what "happned last night"? to wich vega says "oh nothing, we just needed to unwind a bit". and when you go to see ashley all she says was" wanted to let off a little steam". she was under sever stress and just wanted to have fun. dosent mean they F@#%ed at all. so can we let the matter drop and leave ashleys page alone when it comes to this matter?

I completely disagree. In the Citadel DLC, during the party, you can find Ash and Vega alone in a corner upstairs flirting. Look at the way they're standing and tell me that doesn't look like people getting ready to hook up. Throw in the comment Ashley makes about examining Vega's muscles during the same party while he is arguing that muscles are better than biotics, and that's confirmation in my book. Bioware isn't going to make a active scene showing a possible romance NPC hooking up, or even a scene showing them dating. It would make her less of a candidate for the romance option as some players would feel they're missing out on cut scenes.


 * If unromanced they can flirt throughout the party. They can be found opposite the bedroom upstairs at the last stage of the party after the upstairs group breaks off and starts dancing. There you can hear them talking and Shepard has the option of telling them to "Hook Up" or "Cool Off". Telling them to Hook Up leads to increased flirting, and a very strong implication that something happened between them. Garhdo (talk) 01:11, April 7, 2013 (UTC)

Wtih Cerberus or For Cerberus
For the past few weeks there has been a near constant back and forth regarding Ashley's feelings on Shepard's affiliation with Cerberus. One side insists that we use "for cerberus" and the other side says "with cerberus"

Should it not be more be "accurate" to write that Shepard is working "with cerberus". As far as we can tell he has yet to officially join the civilization or take any such vows to uphold their ideals and whatnot.

For all intents and purposes Shepard is working for the Citadel (if he renews his Spectre membership).

Tjkoshy686 (talk) 14:50, May 5, 2013 (UTC)


 * that is just one user being willfully ignorant and failing to read revision history. i suggest you do so too as i've already put down the rationale why the wording shouldn't be changed. or if you're too lazy to do so yourself, it's because the ingame subs and dialogue explicitly use FOR. not WITH.
 * there's a slight shift in nuance with the other wording that does not properly convey what ash thinks at that moment. hence, incorrect. end of discussion. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 15:02, May 5, 2013 (UTC)

Ash before Coup.
Ashley on Normandy Before the Citadel Coup 

Why are there sound files and events in the game data of Ashley that take place before you can recruit her after the Coup attempt? Found files of her talking about the Primarch Son and Rachni goo on her armor. Even conversations aboard SR-2 with Shep something about asking Kaidan to put in a good word for them. How much i would want to get her before Tuchanka its kinda impossible since she's in the hospital. Did bioware have the idea of having her not hospitalized? Or that it was either her or Liara who get injured by Dr. Eva? any one got an idea? --Deamonic Dragon (talk) 00:08, May 11, 2013 (UTC)
 * Because it is possible to have Ashley for these missions. Neither Attican Traverse: Krogan Team nor Tuchanka: Bomb expire after completing Priority: Tuchanka or Priority: The Citadel II. Tuchanka: Bomb has a time limit in that doing three other missions after receiving the mission will fail the mission; you can do Tuchanka: Turian Platoon, then do Priority: Tuchanka, Priority: The Citadel II, and then Tuchanka: Bomb with the Virmire Survivor in your squad. LilyheartsLiara (talk) 00:16, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Omg i neverr thought of that i just assumed that those missions are only available if the Primarch and Wrex/Wreav are aboard the Normandy. In any case Thanx LilyheartsLiara u made my day. ^^ --Deamonic Dragon (talk) 09:19, May 11, 2013 (UTC)

Ashley Romance pic
Someone put a picture of Ash's romance scene in ME3. Thing is, that pic has Shepard in it. I thought all pics that had Shepard in it were not allowed? (besides on the commander's own page) ShermTank7272 (talk) 22:41, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Romances sections can include Shepard, as its kind of hard to have screencaps without the commander fr those scenes. They must use the default Shepard model however. Garhdo (talk) 22:46, May 17, 2013 (UTC)
 * To sum up the Manual of Style, pictures of Shepard are allowed in romance sections (and also armor pages). LilyheartsLiara (talk) 22:47, May 17, 2013 (UTC)

Bar Fight on Silversun Strip

 * The fight during Shepard and Ashley's drinking contest may be a reference to the bar fight that occurred in the Mos Eisley Cantina in Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHypNow9Sqk

To me, it's pretty obvious that this is referring to that particular scene, but let's hear what you have to say. Lksdjf (talk) 04:54, May 25, 2013 (UTC)


 * bar fights are pretty common in fictionland. the ones compared here start pretty much the same (patron taps hero on shoulder, expresses dislike at hero's background, hero ignores, patron taps again insisting, fight happens) but end rather differently. as counterargument, offhand i can't think of other fictional works that use the same setup. "may be a reference", perhaps with a huge boulder of salt, "is a reference" no. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 02:57, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Doesn't this barfight start with something very similar to the famous line though?
 * Star Wars: "He doesn't like you. I don't like you either."
 * Mass Effect: "My friend doesn't like Alliance types. I don't like Alliance types either."
 * I think its similar enough to be included as trivia, provided like several other trivia notes of this type it says merely that it may be a reference, rather than that it is a reference. Garhdo (talk) 13:22, May 26, 2013 (UTC)


 * Was very clearly an intentional reference to the Star Wars cantina scene. Had me hoping for an arm to plop on the floor. Count me as a vote to add as trivia. I'll continue to mention that our rules (really non-rules) for Trivia are weird. This is on the reasonable end of the trivia I've seen. Cattlesquat (talk) 15:07, May 26, 2013 (UTC)
 * I'd compare this to the Battlestar Galactica reference made during the Party with Joker and Traynor. We cant confirm it, but it seems so glaringly obvious, and we know that Star Wars was an inspiration for ME, so I see no reason why it couldn't be mentioned somewhere. Garhdo (talk) 15:19, May 26, 2013 (UTC)