Talk:Shadow Broker

General Discussion
I changed the bit at the bottom of the page, but I'm not sure if it should even be there. I did not think this was a place for speculation, but if the general consensus is that it should stay I will concede. I also changed some of the wording, and corrected a spelling error because someone had spelled receive as recieve. Am I the only one who remembers the grade school saying: I before E except after C? Spectre J 20:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Identity
Y'know, all this 'handling of complex information', 'walking the political tightrope' and 'only ever working through agents' stuff makes me wonder if the Broker is some sort of AI. -- Tullis 09:05, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

The thought did cross my mind at the begninning, but never really thought about it after that. The Shadow Broker being an AI would make sense. I mean, he probably has information on anybody you could imagine, and it would take an AI, or at least a VI to really sort all that... Maybe it is a group of people, some sort of Illuminati type group. I do not think it is one person. Spectre J 16:48, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

It sounds to me like the Shadow Broker may have actually been Sovereign. It would have given Sovereign a chance to gather lots of information about the galaxy in the period of time between when he came back online and the events of Mass Effect, as well as a network of agents and the cash to fund their operations. 207.173.178.2 20:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Sovereign, eh? It is a possibility, but I think it is unlikely. That could have been his way of monitoring the galaxies development. He could have set it all up at the start of Council relations, set up a puppet leader, and checked in periodically to see how far along sentient organic life was. I think we will definitely get some more answers in the forthcoming sequels. It is interesting to think of the possibilities, though.Spectre J 21:26, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I have strong reason to believe Sha'ira is directly connected to the Shadow Broker. Either she is the Shadow Broker, her group is the Shadow Broker, or she's very close to the top of the food chain. The following is all speculation, but I believe she's either working independently or with the Council. She and her group (the group I will refer to as the Consort, her I will refer to as Sha'ira so as not to confuse anyone) are located on the Presidium and have access to many important figures. It's stated that most of the visitors to the Presidium end up being clients. The only non-asari acolyte we see is a human female. All the asari we see in the game are attractive females, and aside from the powers of persuasion that come with that alone, asari are telepathic. Remember that they can read anyone's mind if the person is willing? The whole "Consort" setup makes high-ranking diplomats willing to engage in the procedure. Who knows what the asari can look at once they're inside your mind? Maybe the developers did this on purpose, maybe not, but the only asari you have any extensive interactions with is Liara. Liara is "little more than a child," and has spent most of her life alone on digs. She also seems very innocent and it's safe to assume the vision is the only thing she scanned from your mind. Shiala, the asari you meet on Feros, gives you a weird look right after you "mind-meld" and I worry to think what she might have gotten from it, especially if she was still indoctrinated.

New paragraph, still me. So let's look over the evidence. The Consort is a group of influential and reputed asari who have access to many high-ranking government members and other individuals (General Septimus is retired, which implies he has much information and experience; who knows what he could have told her? Also, he's probably only the tip of a very huge iceberg, as who knows who else she might have access to?). Their reputation puts them beyond challenge. Also interesting is the way Sha'ira specifically asks you to help her in pacifying someone who is spreading lies about her and HURTING HER REPUTATION, which is very valuable to her, and would be even more valuable to put her beyond questions if she was the Shadow Broker. VERY INTERESTING is Xeltan, the elcor diplomat. He claims his secrets are being spread, and the only person who knows these aside from him is Sha'ira. Septimus gives you some OSD's to give to Xeltan to show him where he got the information. We're never told where he got the information. The Shadow Broker "knows everything" and the only person Xeltan told was Sha'ira. Guess what?

Third paragraph to make reading this a bit easier. I read somewhere the trinket she gives you unlocks some Prothean ruins. I never did that, and I thought the relic was a listening device. How else would the Shadow Broker know to contact you right after you got the Cerberus data? Also, think about the cost involved in seeing her. Government officials and other people with sensitive information are generally very rich. People who don't have much sensitive information, like the Alliance recruits in the Embassy Lounge, are not high-paid. This is very obvious to an inquisitive mind, but again, social norms put her beyond question, as anyone could argue "well, we wouldn't want bums going and visiting the respected Consort, now would we?" She has it all planned out, it's almost a perfect setup.

Fourth. What do you guys think? 75.41.35.95 00:43, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

I don't think the Shadow Broker is Sovereign, because Fist chose to turn on the Shadow Broker, and give the quarian (Tali) to Saren. I suppose it could be some convoluted mix-up situation, but I seriously doubt it. The Shadow Broker got wind of the deal with Saren even before making the decision to hiring a krogan bounty hunter (Wrex - and even informed him) to deal with the situation, to recover Tali. It wouldn't make sense for this to be an internal struggle between Sovereign and Saren going on here, because the information Tali has, "one step closer to finding the conduit, and one step closer to the return of the reapers", is only equally damaging to them both, and both obviously simply wish that this information be destroyed. I suppose one could argue that they don't know what information Tali has, but even if they didn't, there is a limited possibility to the information she could have. If Sovereign is trying to get information about Saren's actions beneath his scope of perception, it may make sense - but only if Sovereign thought in an emotional manner. The more calculated approach would be direct confrontation of Saren; something Saren would definantly be unable to survive. Sovereign probably woudn't expect Saren to be able to overcome his indoctrination without him knowing. I doubt a powerful 50,000+ year old AI would act in such an uncalculated manner as to send a variable unknown (the bounty hunter) to rescue Tali, and would prefer assassination with returned proof - but not from a variable unknown, but from something he has fully indoctrinated. Edit: It just occurred to me that the Shadow Broker hired Wrex to save Tali, but not to ensure she got to the Shadow Broker -- seems like merely exposure to the council was its objective.

The weird look: probably never mind-melded to a human before, probably also wondering 'did it work?' -- 'She messed up my mind!'

Sha'ira's reputation as the would-be Shadow Broker would probably not have any affect on her reputation as the Consort. In fact, her reputation as the Consort would be more important to her if she was not the Shadow Broker, because the Shadow Broker would be the one judging her.

You are presumedly revealed the private information in the OSD's for Xeltan; if you chose the renegade path options, Shepard will state that "it's easy to find out" that information. It's probably some personal matter, like he has some strange fetish, or has a family member that tarnishes his political appearance.

The Shadow Broker probably monitored the information & communication surrounding the Cerberus faction, and possibly came to the assumption that it was you attacking them, instead of any other accounted-for element. You get the message whether or not you have Sha'ira's trinket.

Also, due to her full schedule, for example, booking you several months in line, I doubt Sha'ira would have the time to have effective extra-citadel monitoring capability.

An AI, a person, or a group of people, you have yet to encounter is far more likely. It's more likely an asari than a krogan, for example, but even more likely a salarian.

The 'salarian possibility' gets credit from Kirrahe's speech about 'holding the line'; he emphasises behind-the-scenes manipulation. Then there's the League of One, who's medallions you recover. Hrm... There is even no page describing the League of One here at the moment, but they are a very interesting, very secretive bunch. The 'salarian way' appears to typically be 'secretive manipulation for the greater good', placing themselves in positions of judgement - that seems to parallel the way of the Shadow Broker.

I have the highest confidence that it is that "Banes" character from Dr. Michel, her black mailer. Michel says Anderson would know her, Anderson has you ask Kahokaou, and he says that Banes died with a ship of his a while back. What? Then how does one still find themselves alive and black mailing someone? Although that AI from the signal quest says it is all knowing of the universe, I think the Alliance is behind it. I agree with everyones "Shadow Broker: More than One" theory, and I believe Banes, Kahokaou, and maybe a small fleet of intelligent Alliance members are behind it. It seems like when Kaou said this, he was tryong to cover up the operation that Banes was running. One thing I noticed while I played on my fourth run was this. You know the Asari in Noveria... the one who asks you to talk to Vargas(Binary Helix Guy) about some things? She informs you that when he is uncomfortable he will rub his neck. Kaou did the same thing when he said "Banes? Well... he dided in one of my fleets a while ago." That is my theory, I rely on it quite a bit.

64.53.58.247 01:39, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

There is too small information about him. But to my mind Shadow Broker is a man whom Shepard meets in the Citadele (or can meet, but needn't do this). As in old-fashion detective he must be a little, unnoticeable man, but that who can see and hear more than something. And probably he is a human. Bet he is the bartender from embassies. Best thing to be here. If I was Shadow Broker, I'd work there. To another hand... Shadow Broker can be the man, or better to say the persone that famous and nobody can imagine that he or she can do such stuff. For this case Shaira is the best candidate for this. But I think, that it cannot be she. 144.206.160.176 08:24, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

My First Time Playing through, I wondered around lost in on the citadel and quite by accident discovered the identity of the shadow broker. It has been more than a year since I accomplished it, and I've been trying to recreate the results ever since, but have been ass of yet unsuccessful. I at one point in time spoke with the volus patron in the market place, who directed me back to barla von. Who then admitted to knowing the identity of the shadow broker. Finally, I was told to go to the Embassies where there sitting in the middle of everything is the shadow broker - the Assari Receptionist. "Busy?" you ask "well, yes . . . " She admits it, but I don't recall much more than that as it has been some time. If anyone else figures out how, be sure to post it here. -Dread Pirate Roberts 12NOV08


 * The 'busy?' and 'well, yes' are normal responses from her. You can get those right after you first walk out of Udina's office. As for the bit with Barla Von, all I've ever gotten out of him is that he thinks it's more than one person. As for me, I just had an interesting idea.


 * There is no Shadow Broker.


 * Nobody ever deals with him, they just deal with his agents. In the game, you yourself encounter no less than three shadow broker agents, including two on the Citadel. Everyone assumes there's a "man in the middle", coordinating everything...but what if there's not? What if it's just a sort of well hidden communications network, and all those "agents"...are it? Be kinda like Barla Von's idea that it's more than one person, except that in this case, the people that make it up don't realize that, and just think they're agents of it. Seems like the kinda headgame the bioware types would go for... Graptor 01:55, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

I personally like the idea that the Shadowbroker is some kind of AI, perhaps even a Reaper designed one, meant to keep tabs on the races and prevent a particular one from gaining too much power.24.141.7.42 15:54, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * That is an interesting theory. My only question would be: If the Shadow Broker is in fact a Reaper designed AI meant to keep tabs on the races, why then would the Shadow Broker (an agent of the Reapers) place a hit out on Fist for working with Saren (another agent of the Reapers)? SpartHawg948 21:17, December 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Hmmmm, perhaps the Shadow Broker and Sovereign are not in contact with eachother? Bad excuse, but possible. Or maybe he thought it would be better to keep his cover, as it would be very odd for him not to punish a traitor... this comes to another question; is the Shadowbroker a recent development, or has the position been more or less filled for a very long time? If the latter, it has to be either a computer or a group Wolfcp11 03:15, December 15, 2009 (UTC)

With the AI theory, I think that it would be plausible if it had something to do with the com buoys. I mean, all important information worth transmitting goes through them. What if it flags important information that pertains to the Broker's function. That would explain alot, in my opinion. --LBCCCP 00:57, December 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * That is a really interesting idea. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it turns out to be the case, at least the comm buoy part of it. Not bad... SpartHawg948 01:00, December 22, 2009 (UTC)
 * It cant be Sovereign because Sovereign is dead in after ME and you see Harbinger talking to the Shadow Broker in ME RedemtionIcemoomoo 19:56, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * It cant be Sovereign because Sovereign is dead in after ME and you see Harbinger talking to the Shadow Broker in ME RedemtionIcemoomoo 19:56, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Wow
I can't believe what I just saw/removed. I'm quite frankly disappointed, mostly with myself, although plenty of people have made edits here in the time since the bit in question was added. Under the heading of "Known Associates of the Shadow Broker" was "Unknown Agent". I can't even begin to describe what I felt when I saw that. Mostly a combination of sadness and hilarity. If they're an "unknown" agent (ie we don't know who the hell it is) then it can't really be a "known" agent of the Shadow Broker, can it? :P SpartHawg948 09:20, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe they were using the logic that it was a known unknown? :P -- Stormwaltz 19:51, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, if Rumsfeld says so, I'll allow it! One of the best bosses I ever had! SpartHawg948 22:44, December 20, 2009 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure that this is the editorial faux pas it is believed to be. "Known Associates of the Shadow Broker" merely means those entities that are known by us to be associates of the Shadow Broker. The "Unknown agent" is "unknown" to us insofar as we know very few details about this agent; what we do know, however, is that this agent is an associate of the Shadow Broker.


 * Nonetheless, perhaps "unknown" was an unfortunate choice of description. Maybe "Nondescript agent" would be better, but that suffers from sounding clumsy. Any suggestions?--Heliossoileh 13:59, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * What about "unidentified agent"? --Tullis 15:09, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * That's a good suggestion.--Heliossoileh 15:28, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Haha wow just wow. Thats the most embarassing thing i ever heard! If i ever messed up that bad at a video game wiki i would literally kill myself. Gee willikers did he ever mess up bad! I, too, am quite frankly, disappointed. Maybe you cant describe what you felt when you saw it, but i sure can: Shame. Sorrow. For the entire Yooman race. That man's mistake is such a blight on the soul of the Mass Effect community that i say we delete the entire wiki and start over, lest we carry this ignoble taint into our beckoning futures. Wow. --AVeryConcernedNetizenSgtMajorUSAFCommandHOORAH498

Shadow Broker couldn't be Sovereign...
In Mass Effect: Redemption (obviously set some time after Sovereign's attack on the Citadel) the Shadow Broker is hired out by the Collectors to get Shepard's body. Now, if the Shadow Broker was Sovereign this couldn't possibly have taken place. My best guess is that in a situation somewhat like Knights of the Old Republic II, the Shadow Broker (Goto in KOTOR 2) is some kind of AI who works for an unknown purpose to stabilise and monitor the galaxy's information. Remember when talking to Barla Von, he mentions that no matter the amount of information that the Shadow Broker trades, the political situation is always stable? This is almost an exact copy of Goto's job/role in the Star Wars universe. --ElitePinecone 02:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

I think the Shadow Broker is?????
I've got a theory about it. That the Shadow Broker is a Neutral Geth or advanced A.I. (It would make sense since the Shadow Broker can move data and manipulate information so quickly.)


 * Well, I'd be inclined to say it's not a "neutral geth" (whatever that is) seeing as all the geth are linked in the collective with one notable exception. As for an advanced AI, that theory has been brought up before and does seem to be one of the more plausible ones. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. SpartHawg948 05:49, January 12, 2010 (UTC)

What about the Illusive Man? he seems to fit the role Gboy4 12:39, January 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Well, other than the fact that the Shadow Broker was willing to give out information that was used to destroy several Cerberus outposts and operations, and did this in order to get information on Cerberus, and seemed pretty determined/desperate to get the information about Cerberus. Other than that he seems to fit the role. :P SpartHawg948 21:15, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * A red herring, perhaps? this would A) Fool the Commander into believing that he has dooped Cerberus, and B) Dissuade Shepard from making a connection. I also was considering the Illusive Man as the Shadow Broker, but SpartHawg948 already knows my more firmly held Barla Von theory. Vaile 06:48, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * One red herring, maybe. But three? 1) The Shadow Broker giving away the locations of important Cerberus sites, then being desperate to get the info gleaned from them. 2) The Shadow Broker working for the Collectors, attempting to obtain the body of Commander Shepard and hand it over to the Collectors, which puts the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man 100% at odds with each other, and 3) When Shepard asks the Illusive Man about getting Liara back on the squad, the Illusive Man flat-out refuses, saying that she is/was an associate of the Shadow Broker and cannot be trusted. That'd be an awful lot of red herrings, and some very costly and counter-productive ones, to boot. SpartHawg948 06:53, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you ever played ME2, you should know that TIM often manipulates you like crazy. Horizon, he allows the Collectors to attack horizion, to find out if it is Shepard and those related to him that the collectors are interested in. Collector ship, he mentions that he knew it was a trap, and sent you in anyway, cause he thought it was necessary. End of the game, he tries to force you to get all the human-liquefying tech from the collector base, and I don't know if it's official or anything, but the feeling I got was that he revived you mainly for this reason. The point is that he is not afraid or bad at lying excessively, which makes me believe that he would be a good shadow broker, and would not shy away from red herrings, to keep his identity safe, for obvious reasons. Also, note his weirdo eyes. The wiki suggests they are prosthetic, but it seems unlikely, and I bet it will play a part in the third game. If it means he is a robot or something, it's possible he is also able to change form, which would account for the Shadow Broker being around since before humanity, if he was around that early. 24.72.49.251 02:18, March 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Point taken, I hadn't taken into consideration mentionings of him in ME2. But one thing no one is expecting... is a 4 foot tall volus. Vaile 07:17, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * That would be true if it was just a 4 foot tall volus. But if the 4 foot tall volus in question is also one of the top agents of the Shadow Broker, that kind of changes things. If you're looking for the Shadow Broker, the top agent for the Shadow Broker on the Citadel has to factor into your reasoning regardless of height and race. SpartHawg948 07:42, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Of course, but such a powerful man would be able to not only see most investigations coming, but make any and all evidence disappear as well, because I'm sure the Shadow Broker not only trades in information, but controls it as well. Vaile 08:09, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be ascribing omnipotent power to the Shadow Broker. He/She/It may or may not see the investigations coming (and I'm not talking investigations, I'm talking assassinations. Liara doesn't want to bring him in for questioning, she wants to kill him.) but even if the Shadow Broker sees it coming, that doesn't mean they'll be able to do jack crap about it. Trading and control of information doesn't help when it gets down to the nitty gritty. After all, trading and control of information didn't allow the Shadow Broker to get Shepard's corpse, did it? I'm sure the Shadow Broker knew that Cerberus was also after the Commander. Fat lot of good that information did him! We see who won out there. And it's going to take some time for info to reach the Broker, I doubt he's aware of the details of rapidly changing circumstances. SpartHawg948 09:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * You seem to be ascribing omnipotent power to the Shadow Broker. He/She/It may or may not see the investigations coming (and I'm not talking investigations, I'm talking assassinations. Liara doesn't want to bring him in for questioning, she wants to kill him.) but even if the Shadow Broker sees it coming, that doesn't mean they'll be able to do jack crap about it. Trading and control of information doesn't help when it gets down to the nitty gritty. After all, trading and control of information didn't allow the Shadow Broker to get Shepard's corpse, did it? I'm sure the Shadow Broker knew that Cerberus was also after the Commander. Fat lot of good that information did him! We see who won out there. And it's going to take some time for info to reach the Broker, I doubt he's aware of the details of rapidly changing circumstances. SpartHawg948 09:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

No, not at all. I think if Liara got the Shadow Broker in a corner, he'd be toast. But the information trade has to be a bustling business. Information is power, and for good reason. While the Shadow Broker buys and sells pieces of information (that he can manipulate, mind you), he gets more information than anyone. With that information, any number of tools are at his disposal: Blackmail, favors, bribery, etcetera. If he get's a good word that a high-profile Asari on Illium is looking for him, he just needs to dispense some false leads, "and like that: he's gone..."
 * None of which is guaranteed to work. He had an agent right next to Liara planting false leads to keep her from finding him. What happened? Liara (with help from Shep) caught on and offed his agent. So much for the false leads... And all the "tools", bribery, favors, blackmail, whatnot, are contingent upon other people playing along. All it takes is someone saying "no" (like Shepard refusing to hand over Cerberus data to him in the first game) and all that information he has is for naught. Blackmail, favors, bribes, etc didn't keep Fist from attempting to jump ship and work for Saren. The Shadow Broker couldn't fix that situation with information, he had to hire a bounty hunter. Again, for all the Shadow Broker's information and power, he has been thwarted rather spectacularly by people who are similarly situated in terms of info and power, and by one particular individual with nowhere near the power and information! That's all I'm saying. No one is invincible or omnipotent, and the Shadow Broker is demonstrably not either. SpartHawg948 09:40, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well I'm noticing some open-ends in these examples. If I'm correct, Liara's assistant had data on her leading to the Shadow Broker. Would it really be above him to use his own people? We aren't sure where that data will lead, but I'm sure that the Broker will cover his tracks once his agent fails to report in, or at least spread further misinformation. Most people aren't untouchable Spectres, most people have secrets. I'm sure the Broker knows many of those secrets. People who don't can usually be bought off, that's evidenced again and again in this story. When Fist switched to Saren's side, I believe it was the Med Clinic Doctor who said that it was a stupid decision. And the Broker didn't just hire a mercenary, he hired one of the last remaining Krogan Battlemasters, and in most scenarios Fist ends up dead. I've said that the Broker is certainly not omnipotent or invincible, but after all of these "failures", he's still seemingly untouchable. Liara believes she's caught him, and maybe she has. But if she has, its not the work of a common C-Sec officer or a small time criminal ringleader, it's another successful broker who worked with a Spectre in stopping the greatest threat to galactic civilization. And even she had to work her hardest to find it. Vaile 10:08, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * It wouldn't be outside the realm of the possible that the info on Liara's assistant was planted deliberately, but there was also no reason given to assume so. It is just as likely that the info is something the Broker didn't want his adversaries to know. And regardless of whether it was the brightest decision or not, the point still remains that the Shadow Broker was powerless to stop Fist from jumping ship. No information of his kept that from happening. And so what if the bounty hunter he hired was exceptionally qualified? The point I was making was that the vaunted Shadow Broker with all his information was powerless! He had to hire someone to clean up the situation, and even then, as you say, it isn't guaranteed! ("and in most scenarios Fist ends up dead." most, eh? Some powerful Shadow Broker!) That only serves to reinforce my point! He is far from untouchable, and has been shown to be incapable of pulling off some pretty major ops. Regardless, back to the original point, nothing stated here has come close to convincing me that Barla Von is the Broker. I still think it's way to obvious and he's way to exposed to be anything other than an agent of the Broker. SpartHawg948 10:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * The best laid plans of mice and men. As much control as the Shadow Broker has, he cannot control free will. He is not a warrior, so of course he had to send someone else. Why was he not able to prevent Fist from leaving? It is not unreasonable to assume that he was more afraid of Saren, I know I would be. And even in the scenario in which he survives, he has outlived his uselfulness to Saren. I am sure that Saren and the Geth tied up that loose end, even if the evidence ultimately made its way to the Council. And I hardly think that we should discount his reputation for several failed operations. The US military itself has had its fair share of failures ,yet those make it anything but incompetent. It's alright if you're not convinced, I was only defending my opinion. Like the person below me (I can't see his name now, I'm only editing this section) said, it's only speculation. We hardly know enough about the Shadow Broker to make an accurate determination of his identity, so all estimations are fanciful guessing at this point. I would say that the most likely suspect would be someone we haven't even met yet. Someone far away from watchful eyes on the Citadel. Vaile 17:14, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do think the Shadow Broker is some sort of AI. People in video games like Shadow Broker ALWAYS are. That is why face-to-face meetings with him is impossible--he's a supercomputer. - ThePlatypus 19:33, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do think the Shadow Broker is some sort of AI. People in video games like Shadow Broker ALWAYS are. That is why face-to-face meetings with him is impossible--he's a supercomputer. - ThePlatypus 19:33, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

It wouldn't be impossible, you can have face to face meetings with supercomputers. After all (Fallout 3 Spoiler Alert!!!) you were able to meet President Eden in Fallout 3 even though it turns out the 'President' is actually a ZAX supercomputer, which was a fact known to at least one of the senior officials of the Enclave, and likely more. SpartHawg948 19:36, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Actually, Eden was the AI I was thinking about when I wrote my comment. I mean he wouldn't want anyone to see he really was just a huge supercomputer. - ThePlatypus 20:00, May 14, 2010 (UTC)
 * True, he doesn't allow you to learn his true nature until a time of his choosing. SpartHawg948 21:06, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Another theory
Another idea that was rattling around my head but I forgot about till a few minutes ago: It seems like there is a pretty good candidate for the Shadow Broker right in the Presidium! Sha'ira! I mean, think about it: She already has a perfect information gathering network in place (herself and her assistants or whatever they're called), she caters pretty much exclusively to the higher echelons of power, the big-wigs on the Citadel and such, she's certainly not hurting for money or resources, she's got serious connections, and it's obvious she's got dirt on some pretty big people. Notice how easy it was for the elcor diplomat to believe it was she who revealed his deepest, darkest secrets? That implies that he was willing to divulge those secrets freely to her in the first place. At the very least, I think she'd be well situated to be one of the Broker's main agents/sources. If Sha'ira herself isn't the Broker, he'd be a fool to no at least attempt to tap that source! (and yes, there was a pun intended! :P) SpartHawg948 10:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * Theres a lengthy discussion on the Sha'ira theory above, in the Identity section. However, personally, I am going with Barla Von as the Shadow Broker. There was a point made, I believe by you, that it would be too obvious, too exposed; however, that is the perfect point for him to be. People who have information to sell or to purchase speaks with Barla Von as everyone knows he is the contact point. Barla Von has access to all the information to go through him, and has a certain amount of protection by being highly visible and well known. Hiding in plain sight is the best hiding place, as no one would suspect he, himself, being the Shadow Broker as he's "just an agent" Tobiath01 11:21, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Darn! That's what I get for not doing my homework! Oh well. And again, I do think that Barla Von is way too obvious. There's a big difference between hiding in plain site and standing in plain site doing a laughably poor job of trying to hide. The Shadow Broker trying to hide by posing as one of the top agents of the Shadow Broker isn't really hiding at all. If anything, it makes it more likely someone will nab him sooner, when they go after Von to get to the Shadow Broker. And the people who are after him won't go easier on him just because they think he's only an agent. SpartHawg948 11:27, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * He's not trying to hide at all; that is the point. Barla Von is the hub of information brokering in the Citadel, and, if he so wanted, could just go independent of the Shadow Broker (a la Liara). Also, he has a sort of diplomatic immunity/protection due to the authorities and those of the high echelons of politics using the Shadow Broker's service, through Barla Von, to gain and maintain their own political power. Those in the intelligence community would expect swift action if they attempted to take out Barla Von because of this unspoken protection; there may also be an overthinking of the situation, such as you are currently doing, meaning that it cant true because it would be too obvious. He gains the authority and connections by being a public figure for the Shadow Broker, along with handling the majority of information gathering and dissemination on the Presidium (which could be considered the most important political hub of the galaxy), as well as the deflecting suspicion precisely because it is "way too obvious" Tobiath01 12:07, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Wait, now I'm confused... are you saying Barla Von is, or isn't, the Shadow Broker? Because in your first post you said he was, but now you talk about him going independent of the Shadow Broker, like Liara did. SpartHawg948 12:10, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm saying its only logical that he is the Shadow Broker because he could, and probably would, go independent if he wasn't the Shadow Broker himself. Tobiath01 12:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * But that assumes that he has a desire to go independent. He has a very lucrative job in the Presidium, supplemented by nice side income from the Shadow Broker. And if he were to leave the Shadow Broker's employ, he'd more than likely lose all that. Given the way the Shadow Broker reacted to a low level goon like Fist jumping ship to work with Saren, I can't imagine he would sit idly by and let Barla Von set up a rival information brokerage, especially not one using sources and clients Von had poached from the Shadow Broker (ie Von's sources and clients while in the employ of the Broker). So no, I hardly think the fact Von isn't independent is proof that he and the Shadow Broker are one and the same. SpartHawg948 12:23, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Not proof, no, but it can be used support a theory where there is no real evidence. Everything is speculation, I am merely giving my view on what I believe is correct. The hiding in plain sight is really Barla Von's greatest strength, to me, as to why no one has figured out his identity. Arrogence tends to run high in information trading networks, and he'd most likely be ruled out simply because he is so visible. Again, we dont know for sure, everything on this page is pure speculation. Tobiath01 12:32, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * Fair enough! Can't fault that logic! :) SpartHawg948 12:50, January 31, 2010 (UTC)


 * I think Sha'ira could be a very effective agent for the Shadow Broker, but I doubt she is the Broker herself. Wouldn't it be much more effective of her to establish Consort chambers onother planets and hubs? It's clearly a good way to obtain secrets without anyone knowing. And with reservations taking up to six months, the flow of information would be enormous. So why only on the Citadel? Vaile 17:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)
 * My only objection there is that you are assuming that she does only have offices on the Citadel. If there is a source stating that she doesn't have similar setups in other locations, I'd love to see it. SpartHawg948 02:09, February 1, 2010 (UTC)
 * I remember it being advertised as a Citadel-exclusive experience. Something about people coming from all over the galaxy to see her. I'll see what I can dredge up. Vaile 02:37, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

I'm just gonna throw it in, without much regard for what has already been said - Barla Von, Sha'ira and the Illusive Man feels way to obvious and that's why they're not my top picks. Instead, I'd say that it's a character we've met already, but never paid much attention to. I like to idea if it being the bartender at the embassies of the Citadel, it's subtle and after having heard what he has to say, you forget him quickly - just like he'd want you to. --Fiskn 03:55, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

Septimus Oraka.

illusive man/ shadow broker Similarities.
Ok from my observations the illusive man would be in the perfect position to be the shadow broker. If Him and the shadow broker were both seeking shepards body. But the illusive man got to it first. But what if the illusive man posing as the shadow broker was a sort of double agent. So he could monitor the collectors and reaper activity. Working with the collectors to slow them down send them to wrong place while he retrieves shepards body. Plus is he was the shadow broker of course he would not want Liara to be apart of a cerberus mission she is hunting the shadow broker down to kill him. Allowing her into the cerberus network could put her closer to proving the illusive man and broker 1 person. Also Destroying cerberus resorces is not a problem for him if you really notice he will do everything it takes to stop the Reapers. Using AIs like Edi would make his information network run super smooth and could use the same communication system from the second normandy to him to a AI facility where no 1 else has access. The illusive man and shadow broker share the same ruthless attitude and have the same job information gathering. Illusive man will spend every credit and use ever resorce and take every oppertunity to stop the reapers and put humanity on top even if it means other alien races die and some humans die.


 * The Illusive Man has clearly stated that he does not trust the Shadow Broker or anyone even associated with him/her/it/them. The Illusive Man would also never have hired Saren, since he's a turian. It's stated more than once in Mass Effect 2 that the only reason the Illusive Man is allowing aliens to work with Cerberus is because of the enormity of the Reaper threat—and nobody knew about the Reapers when Saren was still working for the Shadow Broker. The Shadow Broker attempted to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors long before the Collectors started abducting human colonies. In fact, it was the Collectors' interest in Shepard that initially piqued the Illusive Man's interest in them.


 * I think the Illusive Man vs. the Shadow Broker will become a major plot in Mass Effect 3. 71.101.142.163 05:56, March 14, 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Broker: Nearly omniscient, yet supposedly wanted to sell Shepard to Collectors?
I think the key to deducing the Shadow Broker's identity lies in reconciling those two concepts. It is not common knowledge that Sovereign was a Reaper and led the attack on the Citadel for the reasons it did. It also isn't common knowledge that the Collectors were working for the Reapers. However, the Illusive Man knew BOTH of these things, and someone as well-connected as the Shadow Broker must also know both...yet the Shadow Broker would risk selling Shepard's body to the Collectors for experimentation?

As far as I can see, there are only four possibilities: Ultimately, I think the third and fourth possibilities are the most convincing. Unless Bioware overlooked something or the Shadow Broker isn't all it's cracked up to be, it seems that either it's an AI/VI, or the Illusive Man lied about it wanting to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors.
 * 1) The Shadow Broker is less well-informed than we're led to believe and/or a short-sighted idiot. This doesn't seem very compelling.
 * 2) Bioware overlooked this problem.
 * 3) The Shadow Broker is unconcerned with the extinction of sentient life. This would indicate that the Shadow Broker is some kind of AI or VI. It seems unlikely that it's a Reaper, because under the circumstances, a Reaper would likely use its influence to manipulate the races into waging war and destroying each other. Instead, it seems likely that this AI or VI is very good at what it does but lacks the programming to recognize/care about the significance of the Reaper threat. (I suppose this would somewhat tie in with the first possibility.)
 * 4) The Shadow Broker was never actually going to sell Shepard's body to the Collectors in the first place, and the person who told us this was mistaken or lying. We have been led to believe that the Shadow Broker and Illusive Man are rivals, but one of the strongest pieces of evidence - the fight over Shepard's body - is also the one piece of evidence that does not fully fit with the Shadow Broker's reputation for being well-connected and knowledgeable. The easiest way to solve this discrepancy is to assume the Illusive Man was lying: The entire dispute over Shepard's body was a red herring to keep Liara from recognizing the Illusive Man as the Shadow broker or a top agent. This also explains why the Illusive Man tells Shepard to be wary of Liara because she "may be working for the Shadow Broker:" As we know, this is untrue, and Liara is actually hunting the Shadow Broker. All things considered, it makes sense for the Illusive Man to keep Liara away from Shepard (and therefore himself) if this is the case. Finally, someone so obviously manipulative wouldn't think twice about a false flag operation like trying to gain information on Cerberus itself in the first Mass Effect. Of course, if the Illusive Man is the Shadow Broker himself, then pretty much everything else we know about him must be reevaluated through these lens: The Shadow Broker would be unlikely to be strongly pro-human (above other races), given its reputation, and it also would likely have been on the scene prior to the First Contact War given its legendary status. Basically, if the Illusive Man is the Shadow Broker himself, he would probably turn out to be an AI in disguise. Otherwise, if the Illusive Man is merely an agent, it would still make sense for him to have lied about Shepard's body, and this would open up the possibility for the Shadow Broker to be any number of other organic sentient suspects, e.g. the consort or something. Actually, even if the Illusive Man is a genuine rival of the Shadow Broker's, it might still make sense to lie about Shepard's body in order to taint the Shadow Broker's reputation with Shepard and Liara. In any case, there are many reasons why the Illusive Man might have lied about Shepard's body.

I should add: If the Shadow Broker is an individual organic, it is very likely someone we've already met. ;)


 * What was just said made no sense at all, ralok 00:24, April 1, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yup. The person who put all that here seemed to frame it very well, but overlooked some things. Going by his (or her) logic, then it's clear that Saren was either A) Not very well informed, or an idiot; B) The result of an oversight at BioWare (extremely unlikely); C) Unconcerned with the extinction of organic life, indicating that he is some kind of AI or VI; or D) That he never intended to actually help the Reapers. Of course, none of these was true. Saren, a very intelligent individual who was most certainly not an AI or VI, was convinced that aiding the Reapers was ultimately the only way to save organic life. There is no reason to believe that the Shadow Broker hasn't come to the same conclusion, that his (or her, or its, or whatever) best interests lie in collaborating with the Reapers. After all, Sovereign was able to rope in a number of organic lackies, many of whom were very intelligent people. And indoctrination can't explain all of it, as Saren himself pointed out that the Reapers couldn't fully indoctrinate their more useful puppets, as that would greatly reduce their effectiveness. So, while it seems like a nice theory, there is in actuality a big 'ol hole in it. This bucket just doesn't hold water. SpartHawg948 00:55, April 1, 2010 (UTC)

"Needs Pictures"? Really?
Someone really thinks that we need a screenshot of someone who hasn't ever been seen, and is, in fact, known for the fact that no-one has ever seen him? Am I the only one who thinks the addition of the 'Needs Pictures' tag for this particular page is rather stupid?Swk3000 22:20, April 18, 2010 (UTC) I have that issue on my iPod. That 'shadowy figure' is quickly revealed to be a robot. It was never him at all. Hell, when you get the lights turned off, it doesn't even look remotely human other than the body shape.
 * The Shadow Broker does apparently appear as a 'shadowy figure' in one of the comics. If this is the case, I see no reason to not have the pictures needed tag. SpartHawg948 22:22, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * On an unrelated note, why is the Wiki saying it's April 1 when it's April 18 here in Arizona?Swk3000 22:25, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

And who says the Shadow Broker is human? Or isn't a robot? Nothing of the sort has ever been stated. As for the date issue, here in California it says it's the 18th. SpartHawg948 22:30, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Now it's saying it's the 18th. Must be a random bug. As for the Shadow Broker issue, the Shadow Broker himself says that the robot was nothing more than a puppet he used, and that it was never actually him.Swk3000 22:34, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

The Shadow Broker says it, huh? So it must be true. Because the SB would have absolutely no reason to hide his/her/its/their true identity if someone was looking right at him/her/it/them. SpartHawg948 22:35, April 18, 2010 (UTC)

True enough, I suppose. I'm not really happy with the tag addition, but the point has been raised and dismissed, so I'll drop it.Swk3000 22:46, April 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * Kapow, you wouldnt beleive how long it took me to get that to work, i hope the hovertext (whatever its called) is appropriate ralok 00:24, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * If nothing else the tag serves as great wiki humor XD.173.217.89.28 22:06, May 2, 2010 (UTC)
 * If nothing else the tag serves as great wiki humor XD.173.217.89.28 22:06, May 2, 2010 (UTC)

DLC Rumor
I thought this rumor might be worth sharing. If BioWare does have a Liara/Shadow Broker DLC mission in the works, it would make sense. I recall there was an interview (last summer maybe) about the Redemption comic and how BioWare was going to tie the comic in with the game through DLC (or something in that vein). Hopefully this will soon materialize just like the Kasumi DLC. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:51, April 19, 2010 (UTC)
 * Currently there is some discussion on the Talk:Mass Effect: Redemption page about this topic. The link though does give thought to this topic, nice catch. Lancer1289 21:56, April 19, 2010 (UTC)

Another Theory
I don't really have any proof when it comes to this theory, its just one of those "happens to fit the facts" sort of moments (but as we have seen above there are many of those). I also apologise if this has already been said, I have skimmed the above and couldnt find reference, but sorry if I missed it. It is my theory that the Shadow Broaker is Miranda's father. There is no real evidence that connects the two, other than the fact that we know that Miranda's father is extremely powerful (fits), extremely intelligent (fits) and extremely resourceful (fits). His identity is also always hidden from the player during the game, no name, profession (other than business man altough that could also describe the SB) or location/origin is every put forward. His tendancy towards genetic generneering also seems to be a possible connection (shadowy actions for a shadowy man), but is nothing conclusive. Although it may explain a few things (how he is so good) if the Shadow Broaker is also engineered. Like I said, not a lot of proof, but certainly a possibility. I mention this mainly because I think, that from a real world point of view, this is an avenue that the writers may want to explore, it would make a good story (even if only in spin-off media). Either way, it seems likely to me that the reason Miranda's father's identy is kept so secret is to keep the option open for the writers, even if they do no pursue it. That said, it could simply be that "Miranada Lawson" was a name given to her TIM to protect her and she doesnt tell anyone her real name or that of he father so her location can never get back to him. Just thowing it out there. -- Looq. 17:19. 14 May 2010 (UTC).
 * Yeah, that seems plausible to me. The only issue I could see is that some users here (I can think of one in particular, but I won't name names) would be devastated, because if this were true, it'd pretty well destroy the whole 'the Shadow Broker knows everything' idea. I mean, if he can't even track down one teenage girl? I think it's entirely possible that this is the case, which would make it even more intriguing, as it is stated that at one point Miranda's father was a backer of Cerberus, which would mean that at one point the Shadow Broker and the Illusive Man were in cahoots in one form or another. SpartHawg948 19:15, May 14, 2010 (UTC)

Edit?
"As Harbinger is talking about the deal to the Shadow Broker, only one voice is responding to the possessed Collector General further hinting that the Shadow Broker is indeed a singular individual.!"

First of all, you don't put a full stop and then an exclimation mark, its one or the other. =P Secondly I dont see how "responding in only one voice" elludes to evidence of him being only one person, if the Shadow Broaker is a group, then they're hardly going to speak in unison. And as we have seen (and as is stated later in the article) he tends to use a hologram or other impersonal means to facilitate communication. In this case again, I would imagin a group would only use the image of one person or use a single agent to represent them. -- Looq. 17:25. 14 May 2010 (UTC).