Talk:Commander Shepard

Shepard's Death
How does Shepard die at the end of mass effect 2 in the collector base? I just finished my first playthrough and everyone survived. I didn't even see a place where his death could have occurred.Dtemps123 02:12, February 3, 2010 (UTC)
 * I've heard it's right at the end, when diving for the shuttle. If enough people have already died, there's no one to help Shep get aboard. Matt 2108 02:14, February 3, 2010 (UTC)


 * Also, the asari known as Morinth can engage in a sexual encounter with Shepard at the end of the suicide mission, resulting in the untimely death of Shepard.

Shepard's Name
"has the same name as the Stargate Atlantis[1] character of the same name" is that even a proper sentence?


 * Just wanted to point out too, since someone else decided to post this tidbit on the page recently. John Shepard does, in fact, NOT share a name with a character from Stargate Atlantis. He has a similar name. The character from SG:A is named John Sheppard. Two P's. So please, no more of this "they have the same name" nonsense. SpartHawg948 21:07, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * Just trying to add perspective, but fans of the Stargate series may rebut the "Two P's" argument by comparing it to the [|O'Neil/O'Neill O'Neil/O'Neill thing SG-1 had]. The similarities between the settings of Mass Effect and Stargate (the series) are numerous enough to not discount the idea that Mass Effect may have had a little inspiration from Stargate. SiY28 02:10, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not really a valid comparison, is it? The O'Neil/O'Neill thing is an example of retcon within one fictional universe. It was originally O'Neil until the series aired, at which point it became O'Neill. And of course nothing of the sort has happened with Colonel Sheppard. The Shepard/Sheppard thing, far from being an in-universe retcon, is an attempt to compare individuals from entirely different fictional universes. Now, were the wonderful powers that be to retcon Colonel Sheppard into Colonel John Shepard, I'd agree with you. Until that happens, though, there really isn't a leg for this 'Two P's' argument to stand on. It's similar (but not identical) names, and some similarities between the settings of ME and SGA, but no more than you find between ME and most other sci-fi. SpartHawg948 02:37, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm not saying ME should acknowledge any kind of inspiration from SG, but I would like to debate that the idea isn't so unfounded. Of course it's not an exact comparison between Sheppard and Shepard, as they're not even in the same universe. Calling Shepard Jack O'Neil would be too obvious. It would be more of a subtle nod to SG if they grabbed another character, and changed the name by simply adding another letter like Shepard/Sheppard turned out. It's kind of like saying apples are like oranges despite being different because they are fruit, as opposed to saying fruit and sci fi characters have nothing in common so you can't say anything about that. It would be hard to implement a complete 1:1 replication of the O'Neil/O'Neill scene. I agree, on its own, the Shepard/Sheppard thing just looks like coincidence; but considering it is only one among other things that can be compared to SG makes it look more like a nod to it. I can't speak for others, but personally when I first played ME1, I found the idea of people using an ancient dead race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy a huge similarity between SG and ME; the notion being one of the main foundations of both universe's settings. Also to clarify, the "Two P's" argument was a name I gave for yours, being quoted from your original post; mine would be more like the two l's. SiY28 06:24, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, it's not really a valid comparison, is it? The O'Neil/O'Neill thing is an example of retcon within one fictional universe. It was originally O'Neil until the series aired, at which point it became O'Neill. And of course nothing of the sort has happened with Colonel Sheppard. The Shepard/Sheppard thing, far from being an in-universe retcon, is an attempt to compare individuals from entirely different fictional universes. Now, were the wonderful powers that be to retcon Colonel Sheppard into Colonel John Shepard, I'd agree with you. Until that happens, though, there really isn't a leg for this 'Two P's' argument to stand on. It's similar (but not identical) names, and some similarities between the settings of ME and SGA, but no more than you find between ME and most other sci-fi. SpartHawg948 02:37, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm not saying ME should acknowledge any kind of inspiration from SG, but I would like to debate that the idea isn't so unfounded. Of course it's not an exact comparison between Sheppard and Shepard, as they're not even in the same universe. Calling Shepard Jack O'Neil would be too obvious. It would be more of a subtle nod to SG if they grabbed another character, and changed the name by simply adding another letter like Shepard/Sheppard turned out. It's kind of like saying apples are like oranges despite being different because they are fruit, as opposed to saying fruit and sci fi characters have nothing in common so you can't say anything about that. It would be hard to implement a complete 1:1 replication of the O'Neil/O'Neill scene. I agree, on its own, the Shepard/Sheppard thing just looks like coincidence; but considering it is only one among other things that can be compared to SG makes it look more like a nod to it. I can't speak for others, but personally when I first played ME1, I found the idea of people using an ancient dead race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy a huge similarity between SG and ME; the notion being one of the main foundations of both universe's settings. Also to clarify, the "Two P's" argument was a name I gave for yours, being quoted from your original post; mine would be more like the two l's. SiY28 06:24, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm not saying ME should acknowledge any kind of inspiration from SG, but I would like to debate that the idea isn't so unfounded. Of course it's not an exact comparison between Sheppard and Shepard, as they're not even in the same universe. Calling Shepard Jack O'Neil would be too obvious. It would be more of a subtle nod to SG if they grabbed another character, and changed the name by simply adding another letter like Shepard/Sheppard turned out. It's kind of like saying apples are like oranges despite being different because they are fruit, as opposed to saying fruit and sci fi characters have nothing in common so you can't say anything about that. It would be hard to implement a complete 1:1 replication of the O'Neil/O'Neill scene. I agree, on its own, the Shepard/Sheppard thing just looks like coincidence; but considering it is only one among other things that can be compared to SG makes it look more like a nod to it. I can't speak for others, but personally when I first played ME1, I found the idea of people using an ancient dead race's technology (gates in particular) to travel the galaxy a huge similarity between SG and ME; the notion being one of the main foundations of both universe's settings. Also to clarify, the "Two P's" argument was a name I gave for yours, being quoted from your original post; mine would be more like the two l's. SiY28 06:24, July 6, 2010 (UTC)

Age
I put "probably" 29 because we don't know Commander Shepard's birthday or the month in which Mass Effect begins. He could technically be thirty.


 * Or she, don't forget. : ) I suppose FTL and mass relay travel makes Earth dates sort of obsolete, but - Damn, my curiosity got the better of me... let's see. During Mass Effect, it's Armistice Day (Ash mentions that it's unlucky for them to be fighting on Feros because of the anniversary, and Terra Firma is having their little flag waving protest to mark it). Taking a look at my copy of Revelation, the initial attack on Shanxi coincided with Grissom going to meet the graduating class from the Arcturus Academy. Given the Alliance's adherence to tradition, they probably have their recruits graduate according to the schedule of the older military academies back on Earth. West Point graduates in May, Sandhurst in September. As Bioware is over the Atlantic they'd likely take West Point's schedule. The First Contact War lasted two months, so Armistice Day would likely be some time in... July or September. --All speculation of course, but still, fun to try and work it out. : ) -- Tullis 13:10, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Shepard's 30th birthday wouldn't happen until 2184. Shepard could still be 28, though, especially if this "4.11.2154" business refers to November 4th. ShepardWhyThisJubilee 22:16, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's also possible that the date of Armistice Day is still carried over from the Great War (as in WWI) in much the same way that it's become a general remembrance of war veterans whenever they fought. As for when he graduated, it's impossible to say since the Arcturus Academy could be influenced by any of the older academies or simply do its own thing.  As mentioned in the Shep's Birthday section, his date of birth would appear to be (deliberately?) ambiguous... --vom 10:53, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

First Human Spectre?
Commander Shepard is the first human given the opportunity to join the Spectres

actually,you later find out in the stroy that Cpt. Anderson also had an opportunity to join them...so it should be change to something like "the first human to actually join the spectres",not just the opportunity

Anderson was never really a Spectre he was just petitioned to be one by Ambassador Goyle. That mission he went on with Saren was like Shepard's mission on Eden Prime with Nihlus, Saren was ment to evaluate Anderson's performance to see if he was worthy of being a Spectre. Sorry but your argument is flawed. Jedted 20:18, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Rank
Where'd the LTC rank come from? Granted, Lieutenant Commanders are generally just called Commander, but I never saw any evidence that Shepard was a Lt. Commander and not a full Commander. Didn't edit it in case there's something I missed-just wanted to point that out.
 * In the Codex entry about the Prothean Beacon after Eden Prime, the sentence states that it affected 'Lt. Commander Shepard'. And I think the first Journal entry that gives you some background says you are Lt. Commander Shepard, XO aboard the Normandy. --Tullis 08:23, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Image Issues
So there have been some issues with images on this page. Someone keeps putting a picture up and myself and one other editor keep removing it. I can't speak for anyone else, but it's my belief that since Commander Shepard's gender is not set in stone, we either need images of the default male AND female Shepard, or no pictures at all. SpartHawg948 19:38, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Images of Shepard
As I mention in the Talk:Screenshots page, I feel that we should avoid having specific images of Shepard where possible. There is no canon for Shepard being male or female, and the commander's appearance and backstory are uniquely customised for each player - having a 'default' Shepard for players to jump right in doesn't change that. That's why I've removed the image from this page. --Tullis 19:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I couldn't agree more! SpartHawg948 19:42, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

"Sorry about that, at first I thought it was not updated properly. Still I am not agreeing with your comment on ‘default’ Shepard. After all it is the standard Shepard for this game and Mass Effect 2."- Snfonseka


 * We don't know that this is the Shepard for Mass Effect 2. And this is not the 'standard' Shepard either, just a representative one. --Tullis 20:36, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * And for that matter this Shepard is only the "current" standard. The origional "standard Shepard" (the one pictured in the Wiki logo on the top left of the page) looked a good deal different from the current "standard". SpartHawg948 20:45, 13 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Speaking of, I'd really like to get that changed. Maybe something like the Mass Relay image or the Earth shot from the opening screen, or even that 'uncharted worlds' picture with the Mass Effect logo on. Volunteers? --Tullis 21:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Yea. I agree with Tullis. That logo should be change to something new. - Snfonseka

I disagree about the "no pictures" policy. The default male Shepard is, after all, on the cover of the box! And in all the official screenshots that have Shepard in them. Thus, a picture of the default male and female Shepards is a good idea, IMO. I have a good picture of the default male—I'll see if I can get one of the female. As long as the caption for the image says that it is the default appearance of Shepard rather than the only appearance of him/her, that should be more than adequate. RobertM525 18:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I would still prefer not to have a picture at all rather than have to have a long caption explaining this. --Tullis 18:25, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The caption isn't long. I've just added it. I do not understand what would be objectionable about it. Especially since the article takes a considerable amount of time explaining the fact that Shepard's appearance can be changed. And, look, I don't use the default Shepard, either. I don't like what he looks like. But that's still the Shepard that's depicted by Bioware as what the player character looks like in the game. You can change it, but that's the semi-canon appearance of Shepard. Thus, it's worth having in the article. RobertM525 18:31, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Reopening this discussion
I know this was discussed a while back, but given the recent overhauls and looking at those images, I'd like to go over it again.

It seems strange to have a wiki-wide policy of not having images of Shepard, constantly emphasise that we don't have canon Shepards or a canon critical path for good reasons laid out in the Style Guide, and then stick two pictures of Shepard on this page when we could use the N7 logo. I keep coming back to the statement above: "that's still the Shepard that's depicted by Bioware as what the player character looks like in the game. You can change it, but that's the semi-canon appearance of Shepard."

But there is no "canon version" of Shepard, semi or otherwise. Just a representative one for promo material. Shepard can look like anyone the player wishes, and be of either gender and any ethnicity. Otherwise what's the point of having character creation in the first place? Having default images says to me: "sure, you can mess around with Shepard as much as you want, but your choices don't matter, here's what the commander REALLY looks like." If we're going to have a wiki-wide policy and come down hard on images of Shepard, we need to be consistent.

On the other hand. We do have to put something here, and it will look strange if this is the one instance where we don't have an image of a person for their character page, though Shepard is certainly a special case. Shepard's the main character; we should make the effort to find an image that works.

I'd love to hear people's opinion on this.

One last thing (I promise). If we do decide to keep the images of the default Shepards, I propose we get two new shots to match our shiny new character pages; I think we can improve on these. : ) --Tullis 01:52, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Well it seems to me that we have three choices... Accept the usage of the semi-canonical Shepard from the promos (aka the "default" Mark Meer male Shepard); if this isn't acceptable b/c it automatically assumes the Commander's gender and ethnicity and whatnot, continue to use the male and female defaults here; or remove the Shepard images altogether and use a placeholder (like the N7 logo). My personal preference would be to use the promo (Mark Meer) Shepard, as this is the face most commonly associated with Shepard b/c it's the Shepard depicted on TV, the cover of the game, magazines, etc. That's my take on it, but as has been demonstrated many times over now, I'm pretty willing to accept the consensus and go with the flow on this one. SpartHawg948 02:11, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, but we can't just have the Mark Meer Shepard, we'd have to have the Jennifer Hale Shepard as well. Otherwise that kind of defeats the purpose of not referring to Shepard by gender and not using any images, 'cause just having his picture says "Shepard is male and looks like this". Also, if Mass Effect allows for character customisation, and we at MEWiki strive for as much accuracy as possible, then it's kind of inaccurate to give Shepard one concrete image.
 * If it's too much of a pain we may as well just stick to the images we have. I was just curious as to what people thought. --Tullis 02:19, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * I don't think we need to go too overboard with the no Shepard images policy. I think images of the defaults on this page is fine, and I'd go as far as saying images of the default Shepard are perfectly fine on non-story pages like Armor and Weapons, just as long as he/she's not in a story situation. I don't think that will take away from people's own story experiences, certainly no more than the box-art or marketing would. We don't have to refer to it as 'canon', 'semi canon' or anything, just 'default'.


 * One option for this page would be to simply swap the positions of the N7 image and the default faces, since planting the faces under 'Profile Reconstruction' pretty clearly removes them from any real story context, if you're really worried about that. JakePT 02:20, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * But if it's inaccurate to give Shepard one concrete image, how is it any less inaccurate to give Shepard just two concrete images? (playing Devil's Advocate here) SpartHawg948 02:21, January 18, 2010 (UTC)


 * SpartHawg: it's less inaccurate because it says that Shepard can at least be both male and female and that the commander's appearance is malleable (she says, apparently playing stupid advocate here :) ).
 * JakePT: we're looking at recapturing the armour images and we use the squaddies for weapon pictures, but I actually like that idea, especially if we took fresh shots from the actual customisation screens. That way we get the images but also a sense that they're malleable. (And shiny new pictures.) Another concern I had was that, with the new character infobox, it looks clumsy to have the "these are default images" caption; that could be easily fixed if we have them in the body of the article.
 * I dunno. Maybe I'm nitpicking but I feel strongly about people feeling their choices are "wrong" because they're not canon according to some mystical decision they have no say in. I just want to give the sense that we accommodate everyone, and their Shepards. I think that's worth the effort. --Tullis 02:28, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't think we'd be making people feel their choices were "wrong", certainly no more so than BioWare itself does by picking one image for Shepard to use in all their marketing, videos, dev diaries, commercials, print ads and interviews, etc... There's no way we can acoomodate everybody, however nice that may be, so I think we just need to go with the most practical/practicable solution. SpartHawg948 02:33, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * All good points. And if that means leaving it as is, that's OK. --Tullis 02:44, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

I totally get the not wanting to make people feel like their Shepard is 'wrong', but I do feel we have some freedom to use the default Shepard before that becomes a problem. I do think though that with the new character box we'd be better off with the N7 image in it, and having the default faces under the Profile Reconstruction section, with subtitles. So my position is: Move default faces to Profile Reconstruction, use Shepard images in non-story contexts (armor, weapons etc. which may be unavoidable in ME2) and completely avoid using images/gender in story articles. JakePT 03:40, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I forgot to address the 'N7 in infobox, default pictures in profile reconstruction area' idea. It's a pretty good idea. I'm trying to think of reasons to oppose it and I'm coming up with... nada. :) SpartHawg948 03:47, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * You'll make someone a superb "no-man" one day, SpartHawg. : )
 * That seems like a good solution to me. I guess I'm overreacting on this, it's just something I feel strongly about and, since we're spiffing up the pages right now it seemed like a good time to address it again. If we want to do this, could someone look at getting the profile reconstruction shots, while I'll see about finding a nice N7 pic and we'll see how it looks. For all we know it might end up looking better the way it is now, and render all my blathering entirely moot. : ) --Tullis 04:09, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * No-man... I like that! For now I prefer to think of myself playing "bad cop" to your "good cop", administratively speaking (would that make DRY the plainclothes detective?) :P SpartHawg948 04:45, January 18, 2010 (UTC)
 * Nah, DRY is more like our Lucius Fox. : ) --Tullis 04:56, January 18, 2010 (UTC)

Hey I've got a what if. What if we made like a huge collage of ~1500 (rounded to the nearest decimal point) user-made Commander Shepards and use visual editing to hue them in such a way that they create an image of the Mark Meer Commander Shepard's face. Then, we embed that image into a screenshot of Shepard clocking Khalisah Bint Sinan Al-Jilani in the face with a caption "Time to shut you up!". Then, that image replaces this page, content and all. What do you think, good plan? Incrognito 07:27, March 11, 2010 (UTC)

Shouldn't we change this?
I think since Mass Effect has it's own story we should make this article about the default main character: Commander John Shepard, he is on the cover of the game and is (as previously mentioned) the default leading character. Jon-117 03:07, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * The hero of Mass Effect is Commander Shepard. Whether Shepard is male or female, what Shepard looks like and how Shepard acts is up to the individual player. Default is not the same as canon. Locking Shepard or the story down to an absolute canon defeats the object of having so much player choice in-game in the first place. And, as everyone's Shepard is different, saying the main character is John Shepard will be inaccurate for the vast majority of players. If nothing else, a wiki should be as accurate as possible. That's why the guideline for this wiki is to write Shepard as gender-neutral. --Tullis 05:10, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
 * So what if a book comes out based on the game and John Shepard is the main character, what happens then? Jon-117 00:09, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Drew Karpyshyn says: "I’ve done my best to manage expectations and make sure everyone understands that the adventures of Commander Shepard will NEVER be in one of my novels… YOU get to choose Shepard’s  course in the game – that’s YOUR story. The novels are meant to expand and broaden the Mass Effect universe by telling a different story, so they will never simply recount events in the game." He's currently the only person who's writing ME novels. -- |D Karpyshyn blog, August 18 2008. --Tullis 00:35, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Title of the article.
Is it really appropriate that the title of this article be "Commander Shepard"? Article titles typically use only a person's actual name, and don't include military ranks. I think that the title should be changed to just "Shepard". Thoughts? --Randy1012 09:48, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * 'Shepard' redirects here already. Interesting question. I don't know - Shepard is referred to both by military rank and surname throughout the game. Being a commander seems to be quite a large part of Shepard's identity, I wouldn't say it was inappropriate to use that rank. Besides Shepard's in a unique position so far as first names are concerned. : )
 * True, people use the term "Commander" to occasionally identify Shepard, but it's not his name. The article for Anderson isn't titled "Captain David Anderson," for example. --Randy1012 14:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I guess if Shepard ever gets promoted, this article should switch to just 'Shepard' for accuracy, but I don't have a problem with it being 'Commander Shepard'. I could be in the minority though. Hmm. What do others think? --Tullis 13:37, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * It's really not a huge deal (this is a video game wiki, after all), but my main reasoning for the question is just that: accuracy. Including a character's military rank isn't appropriate. It's the same with, for example, Admiral Hackett--his name is Steven, so his article title should simply be "Steven Hackett." --Randy1012 14:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, then it becomes a problem with the search bar. Most players only know him as 'Admiral Hackett', so if we switch it to 'Steven Hackett' they won't find the article if they search for him as 'Admiral Hackett' unless we create a redirect, which seems unnecessary. Although, I suppose we do have Donnel Udina as an article, and he's only named on the ME 'movie poster'. : ) What do other users think? Do we want to create redirects and give people their full names, or are we happy to use rank in the case of characters whose first names are never or very rarely used? --Tullis 15:08, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * You beat me to it :)...


 * The article naming should be according to the in-game references. I did not know (or more acuratly, didn't bother to know) that Hackett first name is Steven. If I were to search for that article, I would search for "Admiral Hackett" and not "Steven Hackett". There is also "The Asari Consort" and "Commander Rentola", and various others.
 * Fair enough, though I think that "Admiral Hackett" should redirect to "Steven Hackett," as Tullis mentioned. "The Asari Consort" redirects to Sha'ira, as it should. "Commander Rentola" should also just redirect to "Rentola," as that is the character's name (well, not including all the other parts that make up salarian names). --Randy1012 00:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, if we're gonna do this thing -- volunteers to create the Rannadril Ghan Swa Fulsoom Karaten Narr Eadi Bel Anoleis page? Anyone? : ) --Tullis 00:45, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * To do a standardization of the article names, we could do something like: "Shepard, Commander" or "Hackett, Steven (Admiral)", or any other naming convention along those lines. Then we could reference the current names to the new pages. --silverstrike 15:17, 16 February 2009 (UTC)


 * To Randy1012 re: the General Williams article: No, I don't like the way this looks. Why on earth do 'Williams (General)' when we know exactly whom 'General Williams' refers to? Also, it creates unnecessary complication for new editors who may not know this convention. Changing.
 * I genuinely don't understand why you consider it 'inappropriate' to refer to military personnel by their rank. Coming from a military family, the opposite is usually true. --Tullis 13:44, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I come from a military family myself, but I was thinking more about how an entry in a real encyclopedia would be presented. If you turned to a page about, I don't know, Douglas MacArthur, it would be titled "Douglas MacArthur," not "General MacArthur" or "General Douglas MacArthur." Adding "General" in parentheses after "Williams" was only to differentiate him from any other Williams in the ME wiki (including Ashley and anyone else that might get added in the future). Not to mention that it screws up the categories--they're supposed to list articles in alphabetical order, but instead of going by the characters' names, their ranks are used instead. But, like I said on the General Williams discussion page, if that's the format you've all chosen to use here, who am I to argue? I'm just glad I was at least able to bring up some interesting discussion about the subject. :-) --Randy1012 18:06, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I didn't moved the article - that was just an idea I had following Randy's complaints... I also think that the current naming is fine - you always refer to the character title and rank and not the full name (even in real life).


 * Military names and rank should be written as: "[rank] [last name] [first name]", or non military: "Dr. something someone", "Asari Consort". --silverstrike 14:11, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I apologise, that comment was actually not directed to you. Clarified. But then are we looking at articles for 'Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams' when we know her as 'Ashley Williams'? It seems unnecessarily complicated. Liara would be fine, as she's often referred to as 'Dr. T'Soni'. Maybe there should be an exception for squadmates. --Tullis 14:15, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I think that character names should be written as they are in-game. That is what visitors will look for - we could add at the top of the article the "correct" reference (Gunnery Chief Ashley Williams) to be accurate, but we should leave the article names as they are. --silverstrike 14:25, 17 February 2009 (UTC)


 * There are also ranks and titles for characters that are not mentioned, for example: does Liara T'Soni's title should be "Asari Scientist Liara T'soni"? or should Tali be referenced as "Quarian Mechanist Tali'Zorah nar Rayya"?, and so on... --silverstrike 14:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * They are never, ever referred to as such in-game, and it makes no difference to their character. 'Turian Agent' is a class, not a rank. So no. The first paragraph of each squadmate's article says what class they are anyway. : )
 * But yeah, I'll add the character's rank to the first line of their pages (for Kaidan and Ashley, anyway) as it is on Liara's page. The aliens don't have ranks, except in Liara's case, and it's already established on her page as mentioned. --Tullis 15:07, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * EDIT: (Whoops! Ash's is already done. I'll fix Kaidan's. : ) ) --Tullis 15:08, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2
As of now anything seen or speculated for the teaser trailer (which often have little connection to the plot of the game it is for) is just that... speculation. At this time it does not belong on this page as it is not a fact.

So for those posting that information... please do not. Zerodark9 22:05, 13 March 2009 (UTC)


 * I suppose I should leave the Mass Effect 2 heading off this page, then, as people keep deleting it along with the speculation. :) --Tullis 22:15, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

I just watched the video and in the end it showed Shepard dying in first Normandy how can this be possible if he flies in another Normandy the same video and the game takes place after this?OmagaSpruz 16:30, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Ummm... dream, nightmare, hallucination, simulation, maybe the fact that this could be only one of a number of possible outcomes, maybe it's an elaborate ruse to get the enemy to believe he's dead for whatever reason, could be content that doesn't even make it into the game (remember the miners on Caleston? That one even made it into the commercials! Or how about pulling a gun on the salarian bartender of Flux and then talking to the asari upstairs?). There are so many possible answers to that question. Best to just wait till it comes out and find out for sure. SpartHawg948 20:35, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Also, please sign your comments from now on. This can be done by pressing the tilde key (this ~) 4 times at the end of your post. SpartHawg948 20:36, November 23, 2009 (UTC)

Sheps Birthday
Since I can't be bothered checking the ME codex, is there an in-game date for Sheps birthday? The only one I can recall seeing is the date in the ME2 teaser trailer which says the 4th of November (4.11.2154). Yes, I know Americans are going to scream 'but thats the 11th of April!' but since we're talking about a unified Earth military, it's pretty safe to assume they would have adopted the international date system which is day/month/year. --59.100.179.191 03:12, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * It confused me too (I hate that backwards dating). I've reverted it back -- it's also on the timeline as being April 11th -- but for simplicity's sake I'll put it on Shepard's page in numerical form so people can interpret it as they want. :) --Tullis 12:33, 30 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually If they were using the international standard, dates would be in the format of YYYY-MM-DD. Molon 17:11, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Cause you know us Americans, we put our hamburger patties in the toaster and our beds in the living room.--Vaile 22:26, December 16, 2009 (UTC)

Today is 01-JUL-09

no confusion there, how I always write my date:/

On the biotics talk page, there's a timeline (that apparently comes from the dev team's timeline doc) of when Kaidan and (biotic) Shepard had various biotic things happen to them (when Shepard was detected as a biotic, &c.) – but Kaidan's age at the time of each event seems like it should be one more:

2168 - Shepard, 14 years old, received secondary exposure to element zero. Permanent biotic inclination manifests.

2169 - Kaidan, 17 years old, accidentally kills trainer after being provoked. Diplomatic incident forces closure of BAaT training. Kaidan refuses further training.

This seems to support Kaidan's birthday being in, like, December or something (so that calendar year - his birth year = his age for only a few days each year), and Shepard's being earlier in the year (since s/he *is* the "expected" age in each of those calendar years, at least according to that document, and if Shepard was born in April this has a much higher probability of working out than if s/he was born in November), making Kaidan somewhat less than three whole years older than Shepard. Do we know when Kaidan's birthday is – or anyone else's besides Shepard's (such as it is), for that matter? For one thing, we'd know what date convention they were using if some character turned out to be born on, say, the 20th of a month… ShepardWhyThisJubilee 06:43, 1 August 2009 (UTC)


 * We have an exact date for Ashley's birthday, but that's about the only one we have. --Tullis 22:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

To revisit this again, has anybody figured out a definitive answer as to whether it's the 4th of November or the 11th of April - or if it is indeed deliberately ambiguous? If it's unknown, maybe a note could be added to that effect. --vom 09:46, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't have a definite answer, we just have the definitive date that was given, so we're leaving it at that. --Tullis 15:18, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, at least I know now! Anybody fancy adding a footnote to that effect?  I'd volunteer, but my Wiki code is so rusty that I'd probably do something nasty to the page if I attempted it myself... --vom 21:21, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm not... sure what we can add as a footnote. That's the date we were given. We left it in the format that was in the teaser to try and avoid dispute. Adding footnotes saying is could be April or November seems a little redundant. : ) --Tullis 21:28, November 13, 2009 (UTC)
 * How about "we don't know what format this is in"? :D I think a possible solution is to make it link to this discussion so anybody else who comes along understands that the date is rather indeterminate... --vom 10:57, November 16, 2009 (UTC)

Considering the in game dating convention used on save files is DD/MM/YYYY, isn't it safe to assume that the same convention would be used for all in game dates? Won't change it myself, but if everyone agrees, then be my guest. --Zadok0 00:56, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * I was just thinking that myself. I'd go with the save file notation. — Milo Fett [Comlink] 05:45, January 8, 2010 (UTC)
 * Know that I am a bit late for this, but seeing as Shepard was a member of the Systems Alliance which is essentially a multi-national military, the date would be most likely interpreted by any military calander as 4 November 2154, just as today would be 4 Feburary 2010. 69.132.216.4 02:23, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * They're still assumptions, though: we still haven't been given a definite date AFAIK, and I suspect the ambiguity may be intentional. And don't military types use ISO-format dates these days...? --vom 14:53, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the late response, guys, but I just wanted to point out that I think our best bet is to go with the international system and say November 4th, 2154 -- for the reasons mentioned above. It just really seems like our best bet to me. -- Fiery Phoenix 7:23, February 21, 2010 (UTC)

The format used for other dates on the teaser site (i.e. video release dates) was the US format. So Shep is more likely an Aries than a Scorpio. 78.146.237.249 20:22, April 14, 2010 (UTC)

About Shepard being dead
http://blogs.ign.com/BW_MassEffect/2009/04/30/119240/

A Bioware dev said he "better not be dead" saracasticly. I take it as he meant he isn't dead.

Fedarated AK74-u 15:57, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

Cloned
Is it possoble that if shepard were to die in M E 2 they could clone shepard at the begining of M E 3.


 * Anything's possible. Personally, though, I only care about the second right now. If it has the replay value they say it's going to have, then I'll be just fine playing it over and over and over again, to hold me over. lol. --Effectofthemassvariety 01:29, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

My guess is that you either play as Sheperd in the third game, or a totally new character.

Casey Hudson said that if you die at the end of Mass Effect 2 you WILL NOT be able to import your save. Now they could go back on thier word but he seemed pretty dead set on this.

A loading screen in ME2 advises you to keep your ME2 savegame to import into ME3 in the future.

Resemblance
Just want to make one point clear. In the past few days I have seen multiple instances of people inserting their opinions that a character resembles someone else (and actor, a character in another game, etc) as trivia. This is not trivia, it is personal opinion. For example, other than the fact that they both have short hair, I see no resemblance between Commander Shepherd and John Forge of Halo Wars, as their facial structures are substantially different. Please remember that these are factual articles. Personal opinions do not belong. Put them on your personal pages. SpartHawg948 11:00, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Mass Effect 2 Class
If you were a soldier in Mass Effect, will you have to make a different Shepard in ME2 or will you be able to change your class?--TheEverAlertAndSilentStep 22:52, November 13, 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure you'll be able to change your class if you so choose. SpartHawg948 02:03, November 14, 2009 (UTC)


 * Developers have said you will have to option to change your class, since things are being changed up quite a bit and you may not want to stick with the same class. JakePT 02:52, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
 * yep yep, the new vanguard abilities are really making me re-think my infiltrator.--Xaero Dumort 21:33, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Yeah! The Adept abilities are freaking awesome! I'm definately thinking about changing from soldier to that! Also, on a side note: You also have the choice of changing your physical appearance as well. I definately got sick of that huge scar across my Shepard's face by the end. lol. --Effectofthemassvariety 01:34, November 30, 2009 (UTC)

"Asleep" comment
I think some people may be taking the asleep comment a little too literally, at least at the moment, knowing what we know. My take on it was that the use of the word "asleep" by the Illusive Man was along the lines of the phrase "asleep at the wheel", as often times asleep will be used in this context on it's own w/out the rest of the saying. Of course, I could be wrong on that, but that is my take on it at this time. SpartHawg948 20:50, November 15, 2009 (UTC)
 * Well my interest was tweaked in the Illusive Man video in which Shepard asks the Illusive Man, "What are the Reapers doing that made you bring me back?" http://kotaku.com/5404715/mass-effect-2s-elusive-man-is--martin-sheen (about halfway through the trailer).Which leads me to believe the reason for implants and things like that and all the "I thought you were dead." comments is because... maybe he was? Who knows what kind of cloning technology may exist? That one is more out there, but at the least he was probably in a coma and they kept trying to revive him after picking him up after the SR-1 is destroyed.--Xaero Dumort 04:43, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * I will admit, that is certainly an intriguing theory. I guess we'll just have to see how it all plays out. :) SpartHawg948 04:46, November 16, 2009 (UTC)
 * So should that mean he is not a human anymore, a cyborg like Saren? I think he have been in a very hard coma severly damaged. What about his crew?OmagaSpruz 18:47, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * Yeah like Saren, but probably cyborg pre-Reaper enhanced level. That's my theory behind why the more renegade he gets the more apparent his enhancements are. Pretty sure in the one picture his eyes are glowing red the way that Saren's glowed blue. We are not really sure of the fate of members of the crew like Chakwas, Pressly and Joker.--Xaero Dumort 19:34, November 23, 2009 (UTC)
 * I just got the idea that maybe the picture where eyes are glowing are face implant, but it is still possible most of him is cyborg type also. I also noticed that his N7 armor or onyx was it, have changed or am i wrong? OmagaSpruz 16:39, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still N7, I think it is just a aesthetic change for the better graphics.--Xaero Dumort 21:31, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * I thought that "glowing eyes" picture was just something they did for halloween. You know, for fun? Maybe I'm wrong. Effectofthemassvariety 02:55, December 8, 2009 (UTC)

Shepards Connection with Legion
I have a theory that perhaps Shepard as we know him was killed when the Normandy was destroyed. Cerberus recovered the body and attempted to remake him (same personality, same memories, better physically) and during their first attempt they attempted to fuse those traits with a geth so as to make him obedient, but something went wrong and thus Legion was born. Teir second attempt was more successful and yields the Shepard we play as in Mass Effect 2.
 * This is pretty much impossible, since even in the interviews with Mass Effect 2 team members, they have stated that Legion is the natural evolution of the geth, and that same geth have different beliefs than others (fractured groups). So... no. This wouldn't sound plausible or even logical to begin with. But, concerning the information we have, we can safely place that file within the "impossible" category. HaierPhilips 07:01, November 17, 2009 (UTC)
 * On the reaper talk page someone suggested that legion is Sovereign itself, i remembered Virmire. Sovereign Mentioned "We are Legion", So the connection is Sovereign hunting down Shepard by the name of Legion. OmagaSpruz 16:44, November 24, 2009 (UTC)

Legion could be a peice of sovereign...but remember sovereign was destroyed at the end of mass effect so wouldnt he just have given up wanting to hunt Shepard thats if he was controlled by sovereign...but my theory is that this is a geth that is very obsessive of Commander Shepard as most people are.... --Rogue of fe 19:28, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, again, Legion could be Sovereign itself, or a piece of Sovereign, if it weren't for the fact that Legion has already been stated to be a geth who "evolved". The fact that Sovereign stated "We are Legion" (which is of course a Biblical reference used to suggest the fact that there are a great many Reapers) and that this geth is also named Legion is very interesting, but I highly doubt that the connection runs as deep as is being suggested here. Again, it has already been explicitly stated that Legion is a geth. An evolved geth, but a geth nonetheless. Not a Cerberus created Shepard MK II, and not a piece of Sovereign. A geth. SpartHawg948 20:55, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Why not partially combine the two ideas? Maybe this geth evolved because of exposure to Sovereign and Reaper ideals?--Xaero Dumort 21:32, November 24, 2009 (UTC)
 * Now that is certainly a possibility. I mean, the Reapers don't care for individualism in others (as evidenced by indoctrination), but I suppose they are, themselves, individuals, and at least as far as could be demonstrated by one Reaper all by itself, individualistic, so I suppose that could be possible. Certainly more so than Legion being the result of a failed Cerberus attempt to make a new Shepard (6 million dollar man style) or being Sovereign re-incarnated or a hunk of Sovereign or whatever! :P SpartHawg948 21:45, November 24, 2009 (UTC)


 * If we can trust Legion to speak truthfully, he calls himself a specially designed mobile platform to operate outside of the Veil. Of course we can't necessarily confirm this, though when EDI asks for permission to let him through the firewalls, she could monitor and verify he's communicating with other geth, giving some stronger evidence he is indeed among the geth. He's not even in-game described as the 'natural evolution' that the Bioware team described him as early on. He's just the product of the geth wanting to gather intel beyond their territory and realizing that a bunch of geth running around to maintain sapience would just cause problems, a single unit could operate more effectively. Though the 'obsession' is also never confirmed in-game if I remember correctly, Legion just replies that there's no data available why he used Shepard's armor for a repair. Greatak 01:30, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Captain Shepard
Is Shepard promoted to a rank of captain? -- Snfonseka 14:14, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Not based upon anything I've seen yet, no. Bear in mind also that the commander of a ship, regardless of rank, is referred to as captain aboard their vessel, regardless of the actual rank they hold. So technically, Shepard has been a captain for quite a while now. SpartHawg948 21:00, December 3, 2009 (UTC)


 * Well, they his crewman don't refer to him as Captain in the game because it would be confusing if he was refered to as both Captain and Commander. In the Tali video, one of the quarians does him Captain Shepard, but that's because it really is the proper way to refer to the CO of a ship, and the quarians wouldn't ignore that. Does that make sense? Plus, he's not technically part of the Alliance military, so they wouldn't promote him, would they? I don't know. Then again, maybe he will be promoted. We'll have to see. Effectofthemassvariety 03:06, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * I would assume that to a quarian, culturally, if you're in charge of a ship you're considered a captain. Or, it could also have evolved into a polite way to refer to someone who has a ship and is clearly in command, the equivalent of saying "sir" or "my lord". Be interesting to see in ME2. --Tullis 15:53, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty sure he still is part of the Alliance military. The comments made throughout ME by Admirals Hackett and Mikhailovich certainly bear this out. Basically, the way I understood it both from their comments and the general gameplay, Shepard (and the Normandy) are both Alliance on loan to the Citadel. It wouldn't make sense to let someone who isn't in the Alliance military have command of one of the most advanced ships in the Alliance navy, they would have given the ship a captain who had ultimate control of the vessel. And if Shepard being a Spectre meant he was no longer Alliance military, why did Anderson have to step down to let Shepard assume command. No, I'm fairly certain Shepard is still in the Alliance military, at least for all of Mass Effect, and it would seem for at least part of ME2, unless everyone in the galaxy decided all at once to refer to Shepard as Commander Shepard (commander being his Alliance military rank, after all) for no good reason. SpartHawg948 03:40, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
 * In fact, the article even mentions (in the trivia section) that Shepard is still Alliance military. From what has been shown, it would seem that military members who become Spectres are basically in the same position as UN Peacekeepers. They are still ultimately members of their own military services, but they are basically on special assignment to a larger, multi-national group, serving under the command of that group and it's officials for the duration. SpartHawg948 03:43, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Maybe. It's odd that Anderson says he's not part of the Alliance military anymore, yet Hackett states otherwise. And you can also tell Mikhailovich to basically screw off when he comes to inspect your ship, so... I don't know. It is true that he is referred to as Captain Shepard in the Tali trailer, so it could be that the quarians are just calling him that because he is the CO, or because he actually has been promoted. Effectofthemassvariety 04:51, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * But again, why would everyone call Shepard Commander if Shepard no longer held military rank? Also, in EVERY military on Earth, which the novels clearly state the Alliance military is based strongly off of (especially the USMC, it would seem), if a Captain says one thing and an Admiral says another, 99% of the time the Admiral is right! Captains (the naval version at least) are upper-level middle management (rank-wise) whereas full Admirals are the leadership. So I'd be much more inclined to take Admiral Hackett at face value. He's got much more experience than Anderson. And again, to re-iterate the main point, since I kind of got off topic. Everyone (including the Citadel Council, Shepard's Spectre bosses) refer to Shepard by his Systems Alliance military rank. I can't think of any better evidence than that. SpartHawg948 05:12, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * You make a good point. I was only wondering why the writers would put two contradicting statements in. I think you're right about him being part of the Military still. So the main question hasn't been answered. Is there evidence that he/she has been promoted, other than the Tali video? None that I know. Is it possible? Yes. Is it possible the quarians only referred to Shepard as Captain because he is the CO of the Normandy? Yes. Am I right in saying that? Effectofthemassvariety 06:39, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Indeed! SpartHawg948 08:01, December 8, 2009 (UTC)


 * Very good then. :) Effectofthemassvariety 05:47, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Since Shpeard is a Marine, wouldn't he be promoted to Major rather than Captain? --LBCCCP 06:30, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
 * I'm pretty sure the Alliance uses the ranking system of the Navy. Shepard is technically a lt. Commander, so his next promotion would just be plain ol' Commander.--Matt 2108 06:38, December 12, 2009 (UTC)


 * That is an excellent point that I had completely overlooked! You refer to him so often as Commander that you forget that is actual rank is Lt Commander (the L in Lt also gets capitalized) so yeah, if he were to be promoted Commander would be the next stop. Lends a little more weight to my theory that Captain is used in the context of captain of a ship, not Captain as in the rank. SpartHawg948 06:48, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

I've got a good theory on whether or not Shepard is promoted or not. If he was "killed in action" as some sources say he was, then traditionally, he would be given a promotion of two ranks by the Alliance Military. And i believe that two promotions would put him at the rank of Captain.


 * What do you mean traditionally, he would be promoted two ranks? Not calling you wrong or anything, but I'm in the military and have never heard of any such tradition. SpartHawg948 00:44, December 22, 2009 (UTC)


 * I know it's a tradition for enlisted soldiers, probably officers as well, but they only promote you by one rank. So he would still be Commander.


 * Again though, where is this supposed "tradition" from? I am an enlisted soldier. I knew plenty of enlisted soldiers from several nations who were killed in action and have never heard of any such thing. Once again, I asked what tradition is being referred to (ie where/to whom is it tradition)... saying "I know it's a tradition" isn't an answer. SpartHawg948 20:33, December 26, 2009 (UTC)


 * A simple google search for posthumous promotions is all that is needed. Frankly, I honestly find it difficult to believe you have not heard of this. It is a very common practice in the U.S. military, as with other nations. Anyone that's familiar with Pat Tillman's unfortunate story will know he received a posthumous promotion to Corporal. Some other real-life examples:
 * http://www.armytimes.com/news/2009/07/ap_illinois_soldier_promoted_071009/
 * http://www.ktvz.com/Global/story.asp?S=7613500
 * http://www.militarycity.com/valor/263007.html (Page on Pat Tillman and his accomplishments, including a posthumous promotion in rank. An Army spokesperson even explains the reasoning behind this practice.)
 * So, therefore, is it possible that humanity's first Spectre, a well-known soldier that could be a recipient of the Star of Terra (22rd century Medal of Honor, practically) get a two-rank promotion upon his death? You're damn well right he could. Shepard is the exception, not the rule. It'd actually make sense to throw every combat and service commendation at him that you could find. I mean, imagine if Audie Murphy died right after the events at Holtzwihr (before he could be removed from the ETO). That's the kind of level of heroism we're talking about with Commander/Captain Shepard. --HaierPhilips 03:29, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * But if you read those stories, particularly the second one, it is clear that this is not the norm. And while you may find it difficult to believe I haven't heard of it, I can tell you that this is the first I (a non-commissioned officer going on 7 years of service now) have heard of this supposedly "very common" practice, and it should go without saying that while I have known quite a few servicemen (and a couple servicewomen) killed in combat, not once have I seen this supposedly "very common" tradition carried out. Regardless, just because something is traditional now does not mean it's traditional in the Systems Alliance, where women serve as infantrymen, there are only a Navy and Marines, with no independent army, there is no draft (which is a tradition both in the United States, where the all-volunteer force is a historical anomaly, and most other nations), garrison forces are not intended to actually hold their ground in the face of an attack... need I go on? SpartHawg948 08:18, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Just wanted to further add that I, too did a google search and turned up a fascinating Marine Corps document, actually a memo from the office of the Commandant of the Marine Corps which actually specifies the legal grounds, rules and requirements for posthumous promotions, which was sent out to clarify as questions were raised about the procedures in light of combat deaths in Iraq and Afghanistan. You can also refer to the Army website section on the subject, both of which I would consider better sources on the matter than news agencies, which generally know a lot less about military matters than they think they do. The Commandant of the USMC and the US Army are much better resources on the matter than KTVZ Oregon, or the Army Times and MilitaryCity (a branch of the Military Times). Despite the misleading names, neither are actually associated with the military or DoD, but are owned by the Gannett Company, America's largest newspaper company. Basically, in order to be posthumously promoted, an individual has to have already been eligible for the promotion before they died, and it has to be approved from on high (and I mean very high, as in the President for officers and the Secretary of the branch in question for enlisted), and as such are not common. As the Commandant of the Marine Corps is clear to point out, servicemembers who did not meet the requirements for the promotion before their deaths are not able to be posthumously promoted, and even when someone is posthumously promoted, it's only ONE rank, not TWO, which was of course the so-called tradition that I was questioning. SpartHawg948 09:25, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * "But if you read those stories, particularly the second one, it is clear that this is not the norm."
 * Which matters not in the least, since no one claimed it was the 'norm.' It was claimed it was a tradition, and low-and-behold, it is indeed one that is practiced in the U.S. military.
 * "And while you may find it difficult to believe I haven't heard of it, I can tell you that this is the first I (a non-commissioned officer going on 7 years of service now) have heard of this supposedly 'very common' practice, and it should go without saying that while I have known quite a few servicemen (and a couple servicewomen) killed in combat, not once have I seen this supposedly 'very common' tradition carried out."
 * Again, I don't know how you haven't heard of it. Pat Tillman's case was extremely well known in the military and anyone following it would've known about it. There's been numerous cases of fine young men and women that have received this honor posthumously in the sandbox. It dates back many years - it is not new.
 * "Regardless, just because something is traditional now does not mean it's traditional in the Systems Alliance"
 * Now you're being disingenuous, considering you're the same individual that stated the SA was based on earth's military, especially the USMC. Considering your own words, I don't even need to refute this statement. As for your statement that it couldn't possibly be based on the same military... ridiculous doesn't even go far enough to describe it. There was a time, not too long ago at that, where the thought of black men serving in a frontline combat unit was absolutely preposterous. There was also a time where the thought of having the air force serve as its own branch was, also not long ago, laughable. For you to say that things aren't going to change in the military (DEAR GOD! WOMEN SERVING IN FRONTLINE UNITS?! THE HORROR!) in a century-and-a-half... I have some waterfront property in Arizona you might like.
 * As for your dismissing of the Armytimes (Really now...) and claims that the entire practice doesn't suit the debate at hand because someone got the level of ranks mistaken... That's dodging the issue. And, again, something else I don't need to refute. --HaierPhilips 17:11, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Sigh... talk about being disingenuous. Someone did claim it was the norm. I believe it was HaierPhilips, who said "It is a very common practice in the U.S. military". And again, I don't get why my having never heard of it troubles you. As I pointed out, it's not a common practice, and honestly, I didn't follow the Pat Tillman story at all after it broke. All I heard was, he died, then months later there was a big ruckus about how he died, then it turned out to be friendly fire. It wasn't "extremely well known" in the little corner of the Air Force I was in, and again, "anyone following it would've known about it"... I wasn't following it. At all.
 * And again, I would like to point out, the tradition I was disputing originally was a supposed tradition of bumping people up two ranks, not one, posthumously which I have seen no evidence of. And I was not being disingenuous in the least. I never stated that "it couldn't possibly be based on the same military", so please don't put words in my mouth. I was just pointing out that there are many traditions the military does have that the SA does not, so you can't base this supposition solely on the fact that it is traditional in current forces. I demonstrated that quite nicely with my examples, (women in the frontline infantry which, despite your grandstanding, I have no problems with whatsoever, an independent army, the draft, and garrison forces that actually garrison, all of which are absent in the SA).
 * As for dismissing the Army Times, I didn't dismiss it, I was just pointing out that the Commandant of the Marine Corps (in an official memo on the subject) and the United States Army might be better sources on the matter of military posthumous promotions than some tv station in Oregon and two news publications that, military-sounding names aside, are not affiliated in any way with the military or Department of Defense, and are no more reliable on the matter than USA Today or The Detroit Free Press, which are owned by the same company as the Military Times papers are. Finally, a historical note: the idea of black men in frontline combat units was not "absolutely preposterous" "not too long ago", black men have served in frontline combat units in the American Revolution, pretty long ago, the American Civil War, pretty long ago, and World War II, still fairly long ago. I think you meant to refer to the fact that they didn't fight in integrated frontline units, although even segregation in the military ended 62 years ago, still not what I'd call "not too long ago". As for "waterfront property in Arizona", I think you flubbed the phrase, as there is plenty of waterfront property in Arizona, around Lake Havasu, the Salt River, and many others (even I lived on waterfront property, at least during the monsoon season when the rivers actually have water in them). The phrase is "oceanfront property in Arizona" since Arizona is, of course, landlocked. And keep it. After being stationed there for 6 years, I have no desire to return to AZ. SpartHawg948 21:33, January 7, 2010 (UTC)


 * Can this enormous, and now long, long, long, long-off topic conversation be moved to email, please? It's now actively cluttering the Talk page. --Tullis 22:14, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Works for me! I made all the points I meant to (and you have to admit, that "waterfront" property in Arizona bit was pretty funny!), but if HaierPhilips feels I missed anything or misrepresented anything of his or what-have-you, he is of course free to shoot me an email, or leave it on my talk page! (actually, the talk page is the preferred option, but whatev) SpartHawg948 22:19, January 7, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to clutter this page even more {::biggrin::} but in my country, at least, posthumous promotions are common for those considered of great merit to the armed forces. It may not be the case for every country. So the over-cluttering here occurred because each spoke of his own military tradition.Braveangel 03:32, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

No, myself and the other individual were both referring to the same military, the US Military, and therefor the same military tradition. It's just that one user was speaking from experience and citing actual military sources and documentation, and the other was relying on obscure newspapers and little tiny local news stations. SpartHawg948 03:46, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

Still Commander Shepard?
Ok so this may be irrelevant as he has been referred to in trailers as Commander, but considering *SPOILERS AHEAD* that he dies at the beginning of ME2 and was "asleep" for two years while being "discharged" if you want to call it that from the Systems Alliance, is he still a Commander? Or is he no longer a Commander due to him playing no role in the Alliance military/ joining what they consider to be a terrorist group?


 * In Mass Effect 2, he is still called Commander by nearly everyone in the game, and he gets his Spectre status restored as well (though that may change depending on dialogue options with Bailey at C-Sec, not 100% certain).
 * He gets his Spectre status restored only if Anderson is on the Council.

Default History *spoiler?*
SPOILERS

In the Quick-Start option for Mass Effect 2, apparently the Default Shepard's Pre-enlistment history states that his, "Earthborn" and "Sole Survivor".

I was going to ask about that - the default Shepard. The default Shepard is a male soldier named John, even in all the official media - the launch trailer's "One very specific man," and he was completely modeled for the "leader" video - so why don't you guys refer to him as such? I understand the gender-equality thing, and that you can "also" play as a female, but it's pretty clear stylistically (and commercially) who they had in mind when they were designing the games; don't misconstrue this as challenging a well-entrenched home policy, I'm just curious. And BTW, that little snippet above this paragraph isn't me, that's someone else's bag. MarinesNeverDie 15:21, January 28, 2010 (UTC)

Thought I'd comment here about this, since I prefer the female Jane Shepard myself, for a few reasons.. First, is I play personally as a female in most games, so it was a quick easy option for me, and having to look for "John Shepard" would be pretty annoying. Second, is even though in marketing, through ME/ME2 and surely for ME3, it's been John Shepard as the main focus, and male is the default option, this is just cause of the way the society is when it comes to games. It's always "male" as default, because that's the gender of our society that plays video games more often, male is usually the first option, even though if it were organized alphabetically, it would be female, then male, leaving female as the default option when you start a character in games, but that's just not how it is. Third, is, well, personally, I think the game was *MADE* for Jane Shepard, but marketed for John Shepard, no direct offense to Mark Meer's voice acting, but, yeah, it isn't that great, Jennifer Hale however, is fantastic as Shepard, and to anyone who's only gone through as "John" I'd recommend taking a shot at "Jane" and noticing that it feels that Jennifer Hale is much more connected to the character of Shepard, there's not a whole lot of changes in the script between the two, but Jennifer just delivers them with more of a punch and actually makes me like Shepard more. Mark Meer I'm sure is better in ME2 than he was in ME with his lines, but I haven't had a chance yet to play through the male line, even though I ultimately will, due to Tali romance. But I'm sure he still doesn't match up with Jennifer Hale... That's just my inclusion here, thought you'd want to hear from a female player. Jaline 04:16, February 3, 2010 (UTC)

I tried your suggestion, and played through the game as a female Shepard, and you're right, there wasn't a huge difference; but most of the time my suspension of disbelief was completely broken, and I couldn't take the character seriously. I dunno, I just couldn't give serious credence to the idea that the human military's supreme example of light infantry and military prowess was a female - I've worked with too many in a military capacity to believe that. -- Echo Four Delta 14:59, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard as a biotic
Since you can get a few biotic powers as a non-biotic class, does that mean Shepard is always a biotic regardless of his class?
 * It's most likely he WAS exposed to Eezo in-utero. Just because he was exposed doesn't mean he has to utilize it, and without a Bio-Amp, you'd never really see anything from a Human biotic. --96.54.228.29 19:59, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Personally, since you can take any available skill you like regardless of what your own class is, I class it as just being one of those gameplay things. Personally I prefer to take skills which are "in line" with the Shepard I'm playing as, but I know a lot of people wouldn't. A friend played ME1 as a Soldier with Barrier, purely so they could take more damage.
 * However, it seems very unlikely that an untrained soldier without a bioamp could chuck around nasty mass effect fields as well as- for example- Jacob. (Unloyal Jacob only has one biotic power, and generally speaking, recharge times are WAY higher for teammates than for Shep.) So that would put Shep as potentially having more biotic power than Jacob- who is biotically trained, and has an amp. (Or so we assume, which seems to be realistic considering the other biotic teammates.)
 * So, my personal take is that people who want to have a none-biotic class with a biotic talent are making a highly unlikely (if not impossible) character- but if they're more interested in gameplay and combat than roleplay and story, then that's their call.
 * 86.24.177.168 11:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)Ren
 * 86.24.177.168 11:50, May 16, 2010 (UTC)Ren

Limping?
When you walk slowly in ME2 do you notice that Shepard walks with a limp?Just a question?
 * The new walking animation is totally wonky. It's like the only thing that is worse in the sequel than it was in ME1. Matt 2108 23:34, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Well it looked like he was limping due to the Destruction of the Normandy.

he might be limping in the destruction because his ship is being blown up at the time? or he got injured of screen? Sonic0chick0ames 22:23, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Confirmed. When you slow Shepard's movement to a walking pace, he definately favors one side in a movement typical of someone with a leg injury. It might be due to an error in his reconstruction, or the fact that he wasn't completely reconstructed upon him waking up -- much like the scars he starts out with. MerrellJ 12:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

"conspiracy theory brewing" Maybe it is a subtle indicator that we are going to play as Joker in the next game if Shepard died(any other replacement? Old Captain Anderson?), and it will be a space combat game where you pilot the Normandy SR-3(cruiser this time? or a frigate-cruiser?) against the Reapers and if Shepard did not die then we play a normal RPG......uh maybe not, it's probably just Shepard breaking his leg somewhere along the way(falling down) and not getting treatment for a while, he is still fast when he needs to be CsAtlantis 04:45, February 11, 2010 (UTC) 0441, February 11, 2010 (GMT)


 * That SR-3, space combat game concept sounds awful!! :P I thought that I was the first to notice the limp... :/ oh well. I doubt the developers would let something like that slide by, although there was the lack of weapons on the SR-1 in ME... I digress. I think it's just an injury that hadn't had time to heal, like the scars. --Effectofthemassvariety 06:55, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Firstly, SR-2's still there, and she's quite a good ship. Secondly, this is a crazy idea hinted by some changes from ME 1: a mission as Joker, Normandy's weapon and armor upgrades... At this rate, we'll have a mix of flight sim/RPG/TPS at around what, ME 10? Some space combat scenes wouldn't have hurt, with Shepard giving general orders - like he did during the Battle of Citadel.95.165.199.42 15:55, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

You guys are ignoring the fact that Shepard doesn't limp whatsoever in any cutscenes. It has to be some weird dev oversight. Matt 2108 07:26, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

I actually took a look at some of the cutscenes, and in Thane's loyalty mission he very noticiably limps just as he is about to interrogate that man. I forget his name.MEffect Fan 03:33, March 20, 2010 (UTC)

Facial Scarring
How do the scars influence charm/intimidate options during the game. Do we know about the mechanics? Is this even a fact? L3zl13 08:02, February 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Facial scars are influenced by your Paragon/Renegade scores, and whether or not you got facial reconstruction. Facial scars don't influence Charm/Intimidate at all. --96.54.228.29 03:59, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Updating Images?
Probably no need, but I thought I'd throw this out here - if someone has the time, would it be a good idea to update the two images at the top of the page with ones from ME2? The Default Male face is mostly unchanged apart for the graphical update, but the hair of the Default Female looks different in ME2. As I said - it's not neccesary, but perhaps something for someone to do if they have the time, just to keep the page fresh.
 * Yes and no. It would be something that might be nice to have done, but it wouldn't be to replace the images at the top of the page. If either of the defaults look different in ME2, the new version pics need to be placed in the ME2 section, not at the top of the page. SpartHawg948 13:54, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Assumed ME1 actions for new ME2 players?
Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere. I couldn't find it. This question pertains to the fact that, if you don't import a save from ME1, ME2 assumes your character did the following in ME1:
 * Let the council die
 * Sacrificed Wrex
 * Did not pursue a romantic relationship with anyone
 * There may be other assumptions built in as well that I'm not aware of

I remember reading in a pre-release forum thread that new ME2 players were supposed to be able to decide how these events unfolded through the questioning that takes place with Miranda and Jacob on the shuttle way to Freedom's Progress. This is false, you cannot choose what happened, you can only comment on how the game's predetermined actions made you feel.

Now, at the same time, it seems like the game should be different for people who played through ME1 and made different choices. If that's true, then why does the game make those assumptions for new ME2 players rather than provide them away to decide about ME1 romances, who (if anyone) died, what happened to the Council, etc.?

So, the question: Is there any way for new ME2 characters to change the predetermined assumptions the game makes about what your toon did in ME1? Servius 23:19, February 15, 2010 (UTC)


 * Yes. Play ME 1 and import the save game. Since anyone who didn't play ME 1 won't have any connection to the outcomes, what is the point of allowing new players to choose this, since they wouldn't know wtf it meant anyway? Apart from not seeing a character you didn't see before, what difference does it make to the game? I'm sure that someone will come up with an editor to change these settings, (for the PC at least). I've played through with import and without, and there is no real difference that I can discern, (EXCEPT - the game is easier if you import since you get a fair amount of startup resources and cash).


 * So then the answer is actually no, since I was looking for a way for people who don't have an ME1 file to import. If there's no difference then it's a moot point. I just thought your decision regarding the council might have changed what you could do at the Presidium. Your decision about Wrex might could have affected Grunt's loyalty mission. If those are just aesthetic changes (like how a ME1 relationship just means there's a photo in the frame on your desk) then it's no big deal. Servius 02:50, February 17, 2010 (UTC)
 * You can download a ME1 save file from various places... I'm sure there are options for all possible outcomes.

While there are no large gameplay changes in ME2 due to your previous actions, I suspect that they will affect ME3 extensively. Given the situation at the end of ME2, Shepard is going to need all the allies he can get, and I think in this respect your actions across both previous games will come into play. Bronzey 08:56, February 17, 2010 (UTC)

Dossier?
I know this page needs to be a tad abnormal due to the variabilities, but the focus on this page has so far been on the impact of various choices on Shepherd's Dossier with next-to-no focus on some key common elements of Shepherd's background. Of note:
 * Graduated from N7
 * First human Spectre
 * Missions on Eden Prime (retrieval of beacon, saving of the economy), hunting Saren (including notable subset of Noveria with the Rachni Queen and killing Matriarch Benezia, Feros with saving the colony from both Geth and the Thorian, Virmire with blowing up the Krogan lab and encountering Sovereign and Ilos including being the first to discover the Mu Relay and set foot on Ilos and meeting with the VI's who name escapes me. I'd actually leave off or minimize Therum since its relevance wasn't significant to a general biography)
 * Battle of the Citadel (including the decision re: Council)
 * Death, revival by Cerberus, operations on Freedom's Progress, Horizon, the Collector Ship, the derelict Reaper and the Omega 4 Relay. Possible side notes about certain activities with notable impact such as the quarantine zone and the prison ship. The others I'd say are even more optional and probably could be minimized.
 * (When applicable) The Council's own opinion on Shepherd in ME2, particularly towards the Reapers (I believe the Turian used the word "delusional")

In general, it would have a similar look to a plot overview of the individual games, but with more general focus on Shepherd the character and his/her impact on the Galaxy rather than the player and the elements that are meaningful to the plot of the game.... if that makes any sense.

--forgottenlord 18:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Achievements
Do you think we could put up an achievement section for all that Shepard accomplished?


 * First sign your posts and there is already an Achievements page that contains all the achievements in the game. There is no need for an achievements page here. Lancer1289 21:55 March 15, 2010 (UTC)

No, I mean like he/she accomplished in the game(e.g. Stopping Saren and the Geth from taking over the Citidal). MEffect Fan 22:08, March 15, 2010 (UTC)
 * That's all pretty well covered elsewhere, and it also gets into gray areas. Sure there are some things that happen regardless (ie stopping Saren and saving the Citadel) but there are a lot more things where there isn't a definite outcome, as there are multiple options, and then it becomes a canon issue. And even things Shepard does do, like stopping Saren, have variables. For example, how did Shepard stop Saren? B/c even there, there are options. You can either fight Saren in the Council chamber, or convince him to shoot himself in the head. So no, I think the canonicity issues would preclude any achievements section. SpartHawg948 00:43, March 16, 2010 (UTC)

Change the quote
It might be too humorous, but I think I'm not alone in thinking that the quote should be: "I'm Commander Shepard, and this is my favorite store on the Citadel"
 * What relevance does that quote have to anything? SpartHawg948 21:35, April 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * His humor, maybe? Captain Pakundo 09:16, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ok... and the current ME2 quote doesn't demonstrate that? SpartHawg948 17:29, April 6, 2010 (UTC)

Default John Shepard vs Custom
Is there any gameplay difference in the Default Shepard than in a Custom or Quick-start (when you choose to put ur own identity). I'm a little confused. (Talking of ME1 ofc)

--Anon 17:19, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

No, not at all. The custom and default have no gameplay diffs. MEffect Fan 23:40, May 13, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard on Earth
I seem to recall something about Shepard having gone to Earth at least once after enlisting with the Alliance as one of the two non-Earthborn pre-service histories. Does anyone know the specific quote in which this was said (and when it was said)? 85.147.165.48 02:26, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * I don't recall anything of that nature coming up in conversations. SpartHawg948 03:07, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) After checking this I was checking this, and I can't find anything like this. The only mention of Earth really is in the Earthborn background. There is no mention in the Spacer and Colonist background. So no there is no mention. Lancer1289 03:10, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I'm sure there was something like it. Looks like I'll have to replay some parts... 85.147.165.48 03:42, May 23, 2010 (UTC)
 * If you can find it then just let us know, because that would be interesting. Again I didn't, though I only went though about 35 saved games, at certain points, and spent about 45 minutes so I probably missed something. If you find it, then post a video and link it so we can see it. Lancer1289 03:44, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

God, I dunno where exactly to look. My guts say it was somewhere on the Dark Star-level of the Zakera Ward, but that doesn't make any sense since there's nothing there. A conversation with Miri or Jacob would make more sense, but everyone would know about it if it was one of those. Then again, I'm not really sure on it being Earth that was mentioned and not Jump Zero or Arcturus... I really need to start paying attention. Oh well, let's leave this one open incase I or someone else comes across the quote I could have been referring too. 85.147.165.48 06:58, May 23, 2010 (UTC)

I've been asking around on the BioWare forums and it turns out I sent you guys looking in the wrong direction: remember in Mass Effect, after either becoming a Spectre or completing one planet, you can have a conversation with Ashley. In this conversation you can find out that both Shepard and Ash once had "Gunny" Ellison as a drill instructor, at Macapá Boot Camp - on Earth. As Udina would say: "You wanted proof? There it is!" 85.147.165.48 04:32, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I do have to point out, though, that there really isn't any indication that this Macapá is the one in Brazil, and not one on another planet. People do, after all, have a tendency to name things like settlements or military installations after other things, like settlements that already exist. It's likely the one on Earth, but unless they say specifically that it's on Earth (which they might, my memory is a little fuzzy), we can't just assume it is. SpartHawg948 05:00, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

True enough, though it might be worth noting that Ashley's article says "Following her family tradition, Ashley enlisted in the Alliance Marines after high school and was assigned to the Recruit Training Depot in Macapá, Brazil." 85.147.165.48 05:45, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm... that may have to get fixed then. If there's no source for Brazil, then it's speculation. SpartHawg948 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Looked at the revision history of Ashley's article, turns out it has been there from the beginning, along with that personnel file that disappeared on March 28th. Her talk page has a comment, apparently from the one who made that edit, that says since it looked out of place but still was official info, he added everything that was in the personnel file to the article itself. So, to confirm my suspicions, as the personnel file looked somewhat familiar, I went to the original Mass Effect site and came across this: http://masseffect.com/me1/galacticcodex/ashley_part1.html 85.147.165.48 06:24, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * That looks pretty convincing to me.--Effectofthemassvariety 06:40, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Roger that! I officially stand corrected! :) SpartHawg948 07:17, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * Her personnel file didn't go "missing"; I rewrote the official Bioware information so her article is concise and has continuous train-of-thought. So yeah, the Macapa Boot Camp is indeed in Brazil. Perhaps add a source linking it to the galactic codex to clarify. Teugene 10:20, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Woah, didn't expect you to show up here. In any case, that's what I said, sort of. So... I'll leave the task of actually implementing this into the article to you guys, because I'm lazy and unsure as to how would bethe best way. Cheers! 85.147.165.48 21:46, May 24, 2010 (UTC)
 * I see a problem after replaying the game and doing that conversation, Shepard and Ashley only had Gunny Ellison in common and we don't know where Shepard trained. Ellison we only know has been on Titan, Saturn's moon, so I see adding it to Ashley's article, but we have no concrete information that Shepard on Earth for training. For all we know it was Mars. Lancer1289 21:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, while it's interesting, I don't really see a way to work it in. After all, we don't go into detail on any of the backgrounds and service histories, as Shepard is pretty much a blank slate for players to do with as they see fit. The only way we could work this info in is if we also added all the similar details of the other backgrounds and service histories. SpartHawg948 21:56, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I guess Shepard not deconfirming (nor confirming) that after Ashley asking if he/she went to Macapa boot camp as well, followed by saying that Gunny Ellison's still kicking ass down there could be taken either way. To me, it seems like a confirmation. Oh well, seems like I can't officially add anything unless I have a dev on my side... 85.147.165.48 04:42, May 29, 2010 (UTC)

Surgery for scarring
I'm going to check this out myself, but I thought that you recieve the email about the scars, from Dr. Chakwas, only after you recruit Mordin. It seems to make sense that you would only recieve such an email when you can actually do something about the scars. I could be wrong. Like I said, I'll check it out, but if anyone else knows about the timing, please say so. --Effectofthemassvariety 04:44, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

It always came across to me as if you wouldn't get that certain mail until your Renegade bar reached a certain point, I always assumed one "20% mark" mark higher than your Paragon bar... I do have a have somewhere in the Omega Slums, so I'll go and check out if I get the mail afterwards. 85.147.165.48 04:57, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I got a game that's at the beginning of Mordin's mission, so I'll play it through, and see if it happens to me. Then, if it happens to both of us, then we'll know.

Finished the mission, got the mail. Seems like you were right. 85.147.165.48 05:35, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I received it too. Don't you just love detective work? I mean, if you could call it that. :P --Effectofthemassvariety 05:54, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

I guess there's nothing quite like it. ^^ 85.147.165.48 06:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

On a completely unrelated question, if you undergo the surgery, will Shepard's eyes continue to glow red or will the glow go away like the scars?Betrayer...In Truth, It was I who was Betrayed... 10:53, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

The glow will go away. Understand, the surgery is just a short-cut to looking normal. It will make you look completly paragon, even when you're renegade. --Effectofthemassvariety 18:26, May 24, 2010 (UTC)

Shepard and Cerberus
Does anybody else think that with the Survivor backstory and a completed quest when you track down that Cerberus base and find your friend and find out that the tresher maw attack that killed your unit was set up by Cerberus, Sheppard should be much much more unhappy to be working with Cerberus? It just bugs me a bit 86.18.187.100 10:36, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

No the backstories do not affect the the current games, and I am sure Shepard's encounter as a survivor was just concidence.MEffect Fan 14:01, May 31, 2010 (UTC)

What I meant was the mission where you meet Toombs, http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/UNC:_Dead_Scientists, clearly we're meant to think that Cerberus is responsible for Shepard's squad being killed on Akuze, yet he never mentions it. It really bugs me when I play MS2 as a Sole Survivor. 86.18.187.100 01:04, June 17, 2010 (UTC)

A weak article. Please read.
Considering the fact that Commander Shepard is THE main character of the Mass Effect series, I have to say that this is a pretty weak article and doesn't do the character much justice. I will give it that it does a good job of explaining the ins and outs of Shepard's personality, based on any given psychological profile, but in terms of how he is affecting the story there seems to be very little. While I understand that the Mass Effect games have so many ways of ending it would be difficult to follow a directly canonical path, there are still ways of making this article more robust.

For example, if you start a new playthrough on Mass Effect 2, without having imported either a ME1 or ME2 character, then you'll find that the default Shepard Bioware has supplied has the Earthborn/Sole Survivor history and psychological profile, and who put Udina on the council, and who, I think, eliminated the council at the end of the first game. You can also bet that when Mass Effect 3 comes out there will be a similar set-up, in that you can begin a default character, without having played the first two games, and Bioware will have already pre-determined a path for the game to take. Following these default characters, you could effectively set up a canonical route for this article and the overarching story of Mass Effect.

If you want a more direct example of how the article could be improved, just look at the bit on Mass Effect 2: it starts out well, talking about what happened to the commander, and how Cerberus rebuilt him, but then it just ends with Shepard investigating the Collectors. Well, we all know he kills the Collectors, one way or another, and since Bioware SAID you can't continue a ME2 Shepard into Mass Effect 3, if he died, I think it's safe to assume he survived the suicide mission. There's not even anything on how he killed Sovereign at the end of Mass Effect 1, which seems to be a pretty key plot point to me. I also feel that, given his Renegade nature, as determined by Bioware's default settings in both ME1 and ME2, we could even go so far as to say he saved the Collector Base at the end of the second game, as that does represent the Renegade choice.

Something else I noticed about this article is that it's very careful not to say, explicitly, that a MALE Commander Shepard did this, or a FEMALE Commander Shepard did that. We need to choose one gender and stick with it, and call it sexist if you want, it should be the male character. Afterall, the male character is always used in the promotional art, and whenever you hear Bioware talk about Shepard they always use pronouns like he and him. Of course, we should still include information about how you can play as a female character, and what this does to the story here and there, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

In fact, we could break this article down such that there are multiple sections: you could have one overall section for a male Shepard, which breaks down even further to discuss how each psychological profile and history affects the game, and we could do this for both genders. Or, we could talk strictly from the perspective of making Renegade and Paragon decisions throughout the game, which might be more logical as the games only follow one or the other, or we could go with what I said originally about following a more canonical path, which frankly wouldn't be as interesting as some of the options we have. And we have A LOT of options.

The point is, this article can be much better than what it is, we just have to explore new ways of representing Shepard's character and story.

(Oh yeah, I can feel the hate mail coming my way already.)
 * The "canonal", if you insist on calling it that, Shepard provided in ME2 is for those who havn't played ME, and by no means should we use that as canon. We keep this article like this, because until BioWare sets canon, the Mass Effect universe doesn't have one. Just because the male Shepard is used in the promotional art, doesn't mean that we should start saying he in every article. Because of the way BioWare set up the game, Shepard is non-gender specific for specific reason is that everybody can make their own story with the Commander. Breaking up the article into seperate setions for ecah and avery combination of phychological profile and backgound would make this article too long. You are basically asking us to set canon, which isn't our job here, that's BioWare's. Our job here is to catalogue the universe and provide a reference to players and fans of ME. We don't set canon and again that is what you are asking us to do. BioWare made the game so people could personalize their own Shepard(s), if multiple playthoughs, and that is how we keep it here. Yes we know that you can't continue into ME3 with a dead Shepard, but mentioning it is in line with what we do here. We don't set canon and until BioWare does, we keep things as is. Basically, there is no canon until something official from BioWare, see our style guide, for more on what we do and don't do. If you don't like it, then leave. Lancer1289 17:28, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * Addendum: Just becuase a developer provides a default character, which is common in most games that you can customize characters in, doesn't mean that is canon. Some people don't like to customize, or don't want to take the time to do so. So this article is kept like it is, again, because it is BioWare's job to set what gender, background, profile, and appearance, of a canon Shepard. Until they do, and ads and promotional art don't count, we don't set it here either. The game has many possible outcomes, as you stated, and setting a "canon" Shepard would be bias on our part, and BioWare didn't set one. They did that to give each player the opportunity to experience something different each time around. So fixing the article to your "canon" standards is out of the question until we have a canon to go on, which we DON'T Lancer1289 17:35, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Just a quick question- why do we need to pick one gender of Shepard and stick with it? Because you want it to happen? Even BioWare has refused to do that! Drew Karpyshyn (the head writer for the series as well as the author of the novels) has stated that at no point in the novels will Shepard appear or be referenced to by gender because it's up to each and every individual to come up with their own canonical Shepard, and BioWare doesn't want to interfere with that. People from BioWare use pronouns like he and him out of convenience, but when the issue of Shepard's canonical gender is brought up, it's a different matter entirely. And remember, they also referred to Legion as 'he' in interviews. As BioWare doesn't want to arbitrarily impose notions of canon, I don't see why we should be so quick to either.

The long and short of it is this- unlike previous BioWare games like KOTOR (and the non-BioWare sequal, KOTOR II), they haven't come out with a 'canonical' version of events (i.e. Revan was a male, he did this, this, and this, in this order, and was light-side. THe Exile was a female, and did this, this, and this, in this order, and chose to do this at the end). Given that they have not established canon, we can't just make it up or 'assume' anything. After all, when dealing with this stuff, there are no safe assumptions, just assumptions, aka speculation. I get what you're saying, it's just not right or practical to arbitrarily impose your own impressions of what the canon Shepard should be (in actions or gender) on others when BioWare has thus far left it purposely ambiguous. SpartHawg948 19:45, June 4, 2010 (UTC)
 * And this is why I really don't leaving long responces, someone always comes along and says everything better than I do. I completely agree Spart. Lancer1289 19:50, June 4, 2010 (UTC)

Called it.
Well, I called it right on the hate mail! Hey Lancer, next time you write a message, check your spelling please. It's late and I'm tired so I'll keep this brief:

I strongly suggested canon but I made a variety of other recommendations as well, many of which simply consist of telling the story of Commander Shepard through varying degrees. Also, I never said I WANTED Shepard to be male, but if we ever followed a canonical route then it would seem to make sense at this point in time. Another thing, I never said anything about just hopping on Mass Effect wiki and writing a whole bunch of stuff about Shepard doing this and that without doing some serious follow-up, especially with Bioware. Once again these are suggestions, don't take them so personally.

The one thing I truly picked out of these comments was the one stating that you wouldn't want to talk about all the different ways Shepard's character could evolve because it would make the article too long. There is some truth to this, and I could see why it would be kinda awkward reading about Shepard's character here, and what he/SHE did, and then read it all over again from a different psychological profile. However, I've been to quite a few wikis and read a fair amount of articles, and I could tell you that even if we did incorporate all those things this article would still be dwarfed in comparison to others. Simply put: just because it would make the article long, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Let me just say one more time, for all who presume otherwise, that I SUGGESTED following some form of canon, and varying ways in which we could do this. Never did I say we should "arbitrarily impose notions of canon."

I stand by my opinion: this is a weak article.
 * I'd hardly call the responses to your prior message "hate mail". At no point did either of the respondents show an extreme or visceral dislike for you, which rules out hate, and they were posts left on a talk page, so that rules out mail. There were messages left in response to your post that disagreed with you, but that's hardly "hate mail".


 * Again, going back to your points about canon, i.e. "Also, I never said I WANTED Shepard to be male, but if we ever followed a canonical route then it would seem to make sense at this point in time", it would make sense if there was a canonical route, but as I pointed out in my (apparently) hate-filled missive, there is no canonical route, and BioWare has taken great pains to stress this. Some off-hand references to Shepard as he in interviews and the fact that the default male Shepard is used in advertising hardly outweighs the head writer for the series stating repeatedly that Shepard's gender will not be set by BioWare canonically in order to allow players to set their own canon.


 * Finally, let mke stress that by SUGGESTING that the site follow "some form of canon" where no canon exists, you are indeed attempting to arbitrarily impose notions of canon. After all, we can't follow non-existent canon, so what canon were you hoping we would follow? I'm trying to sound you out for ideas and trying to see your point of view while getting mine across, and it would be easier to do so without having responses dismissed out of hand as "hate mail". SpartHawg948 10:34, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * Ah the ever present, since you can't spell then your argument is invalid. Both Spart and myself have scene this before where someone who doesn't like a response, picks apart errors that come with fast typing to "strengthen" their argument. As to canon, what you are asking, in no uncertain terms, is for us to impose your canon on this article, and by extension, the whole wiki. As Spart has already states, BioWare has taken great pains to not impose canon on Shepard, and using the default profile as "canon", is still a violation of canon. Because there isn't any canon. You also point out other wikis have more info on their main characters, well that is because they have an established canon, to which Mass Effect doesn't. Those articles on other wikis can go into a lot more detail here because they have that established canon, and we keep the article like it is to avoid canon related issues. All of your suggestions were to make the article say Shepard is this, with this background, with this psych profile, did these things, etc., and you base it all off the default profiles, which are provided for those who do not want to customize their characters, or who didn't buy ME and just got into the series. You are trying to set canon where none exists, if you want canon then take your own advice and contact BioWare or Drew Karpyshyn and ask them to set canon for you. We aren't going to set canon here, and that is exactly what you asked us to do. Lancer1289 18:39, June 5, 2010 (UTC)
 * I refuse to continue reading your comments if I am going to continuously be met with the charge that I am trying to "impose notions of canon." That is nonsense, and the whole point behind the word SUGGESTION, Sparthawg, is that you are not IMPOSING anything. I read both your comments, and they both said essentially the same thing; that I am trying to set canon where there is none. As for you Lancer, your argument is perfectly valid, but the constant misspelling represents the manner in which you choose to represent yourself. It detracts from your argument entirely when someone is having a difficult time even reading what you are trying to say. Now, you two are still choosing to focus on what I said about canon. If you don't like it, that's fine. Once again I never said we absolutely need to do this because it would be great and it's the only way we can go. And as you two have pointed out excessively, Bioware does not wish to follow any sort of canon, which is fine and it makes sense to me, just as much as actually following any sort of canon would have made sense to me. But besides the canon route I've talked about, I have also suggested (oh there it is again, SUGGESTED) various ways we could add to this article, many of which I don't think would upset Bioware too much, if at all. People show videos on Youtube all the time about all the things that could happen to the commander, I don't understand why we can't write about it. I don't understand why we can't have a section saying, "if you don't do enough things here, then the commander will die in the suicide mission." Finally, Sparthawg, because your little comment about me "imposing notions of canon" bothers that much, I think you should know that if I wanted to actually impose these notions I would have just bypassed the talk page altogether and started writing whatever I wanted on the article.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.
 * I refuse to continue reading your comments if I am going to continuously be met with the charge that I am trying to "impose notions of canon." That is nonsense, and the whole point behind the word SUGGESTION, Sparthawg, is that you are not IMPOSING anything. I read both your comments, and they both said essentially the same thing; that I am trying to set canon where there is none. As for you Lancer, your argument is perfectly valid, but the constant misspelling represents the manner in which you choose to represent yourself. It detracts from your argument entirely when someone is having a difficult time even reading what you are trying to say. Now, you two are still choosing to focus on what I said about canon. If you don't like it, that's fine. Once again I never said we absolutely need to do this because it would be great and it's the only way we can go. And as you two have pointed out excessively, Bioware does not wish to follow any sort of canon, which is fine and it makes sense to me, just as much as actually following any sort of canon would have made sense to me. But besides the canon route I've talked about, I have also suggested (oh there it is again, SUGGESTED) various ways we could add to this article, many of which I don't think would upset Bioware too much, if at all. People show videos on Youtube all the time about all the things that could happen to the commander, I don't understand why we can't write about it. I don't understand why we can't have a section saying, "if you don't do enough things here, then the commander will die in the suicide mission." Finally, Sparthawg, because your little comment about me "imposing notions of canon" bothers that much, I think you should know that if I wanted to actually impose these notions I would have just bypassed the talk page altogether and started writing whatever I wanted on the article.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.
 * By the way, the thing about the hate-mail was just me saying I knew I would get people who disagreed with me sharply. And I did. But I never dismissed the messages simply because of this.


 * Do the article justice people.

We're trying to do the article justice by presenting it as BioWare has presented it. BioWare has taken great pains to not set Shepard as either male or female, or to pick one of the backgrounds as canon. Again, you are suggesting that the article refer to Shepard as either male or female. These are your words. "We need to choose one gender and stick with it". This is the very definition of arbitrarily imposing canon where none exists. You can attempt to say it isn't by saying it was just a suggestion, but the suggestion was to arbitrarily fix Shepard's gender when BioWare has steadfastly refused to do so. So yes, your suggestion was to impose this notion on the article. SpartHawg948 23:49, June 5, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah except for the part where we haven't chosen one gender and stuck with it, which clearly shows I haven't imposed anything. I think you need to change your wording because impose is a strong word here. If I was "imposing" such a thing then, like I said, I would have just written down without waiting for you approval, or that of the community. Also, you are once again choosing to focus on what I said about canon. To me, that whole topic is now irrelevant at this point because you've told me for the 4th or 5th time now that Bioware doesn't want to set canon. I GET IT NOW. And yes I said we need to pick a gender and stick with it, but that was in light of me wanting to set canon. Now that I am painfully aware that Bioware doesn't want to set canon, it kinda makes setting a gender irrelevant, too, now doesn't it? Sparthawg I am not imposing anything. I made suggestions, strong ones to be sure, but I never set an ultimatum or forced anybody to do anything.

I hope you step away from this one-set mind track against me, and at least consider some of the other recommendations I made. You know, the ones that don't say anything about canon. Also, if you're just going to write back to me about how I am imposing canon don't write at all, because I am getting a little bit tired of hearing it.
 * "To establish or apply as compulsory". That is the definition of impose. That is why I used the word impose. Because arbitrarily selecting one gender or the other (which is what you recommended. You didn't specify one or the other, but again, you said "We need to choose one gender and stick with it") and then applying it as standard across the article would be imposing this standard on the article. You recommended selecting a gender and then implementing that throughout the article. This would be, per the definition of the word impose, imposing a standard on the article which BioWare has not established. I did not choose the word impose (or any of its derivatives) to make you out to be a bad guy, or to come across as hostile. I chose it because it was the word that means what I wanted to say. As you said yourself, you were "wanting to set canon", which would (again, using the dictionary definition) be imposing canon, as it would be applying your desired standard as compulsory throughout the article. Please stop thinking of this in terms of me vs you. Again, my words were not chosen to belittle or demean you, or to aggravate you or make you seem like the bad guy. I chose the word that had the meaning I intended to convey. It's as simple as that. SpartHawg948 02:23, June 6, 2010 (UTC)
 * Sparthawg NO. Just no. To everything. This argument has long since been over. You are so far past actually listening to me that frankly I am a little more than amazed I'm still here trying to make you understand. This is a weak article, and could be vastly improved. Good luck improving it.
 * Sparthawg NO. Just no. To everything. This argument has long since been over. You are so far past actually listening to me that frankly I am a little more than amazed I'm still here trying to make you understand. This is a weak article, and could be vastly improved. Good luck improving it.

Who is so far past actually listening to whom here? I addressed your concerns and attempted to reassure you that I meant nothing personal, that I was just attempting to convey my opinion as best I could in response to yours in the hope that we could have a civil discourse. To which you respond "No. Just no." Who is it who is refusing to listen? You haven't even been able to get my username right, yet you harp on others about spelling. You go on and on about how people are twisting or misinterpreting your words, but then when an explanation is forthcoming you refuse to even acknowledge it. You dismiss the comments of others as hate mail, thereby tainting any comments they make in the future in a classic example of poisoning the well. You attempt to stifle further comment by stating repeatedly that the conversation is over because you say so. Have a modicum of civility, please. It'll work wonders for you. SpartHawg948 03:21, June 6, 2010 (UTC)


 * I'll offer some improvements for you, since you're SO obsessed with CANON (on a side note, don't play World of Warcraft... Blizzard Entertainment is notorious for retcons).. Anyways... Here you go:




 * The topic header can be something that fits... Like... "Canon Shepherd".
 * The actual canon Commander Shepherd in the official canon lore is a varied person. The canon gender actually varies... Some are dudes, some are chicks, some are butt ugly hideous (don't tell me you haven't see any insanely ugly Shepherds in your time... The magic you can work with the face editor can produce some pretty crazy things). Some canon Shepherds were born on Earth, some were born in colonies, and other canon Shepherds lived their life following his or her parents from one military assignment to another. In the canon, Shepherd did some amazing thing, that differs all over the place. Some canon Shepherds blew up a lot of Batarian pirates saving the colony of Elysium. Other Canon Shepherds survived a vicious thresher maw attack, while some canon Shepherds blew up some other Batarian pirates at the sacrifice of 3/4 said canon Shepherd's squad. Later, all canon Shepherds rose to the rank of Lieutenant Commander and became the XO of the SSV Normandy and were placed under the tutelage of Nihlus Kryik, a turian Specter who was assigned to assess the canon Shepherds' worth as a Specter. Unfortunately, this poor sap was offed by Saren Arterius, who would become the arch nemesis of every canon Shepherd in existence for the duration of the first game. On Eden Prime, one of the teammates of the canon Shepherds, one Corporal Jenkins might as well of been wearing a red shirt when he got mowed down by geth drones. Later, all of the canon Shepherds met some chick named Ashley. After finding some beacon on Eden Prime, one of the canon Shepherds' squadmates, either Ashely or Kaiden started fidgeting with the Prothean beacon. The one that did so was whichever one was the opposite gender of canon Shepherd (Kaiden fidgeted with it if canon Shepherd is a chick and Ashley fidgeted with it if canon Shepherd is a dude.) Canon Shepherd then pulled said squad mate away and then began hallucinating because of the Prothean beacon. This teammate then began to develop the hots for canon Shepherd. Some canon Shepherds pursued this relation, others didn't.
 * Later canon Shepherd went to the Citadel and did some stuff. Some chose to kill a crook named Fist, some chose to sleep with some crazy asari chick, some accepted the help of a bad ass turian named Garrus and some didn't (why would you EVER do such a thing?!), in the end all of the canon Shepherds became the first Human Specter.
 * After that, the canon Shepherds did different things. Some went to Faros. Others went to Noveria. Some went and got an Asari babe named Liara to join his or her squad. Canon shepherd actually did all of these things, but in different order. Some saved a human colony from an asteroid hijacked by Batarian terrorists. Some even gave the vicious rachni a second chance at life!
 * Eventually, canon Shepherd went to Virmire, but each did a different thing. Some killed their Krogan teammate, Wrex (why would you even consider doing such a thing?!). All canon shepherds then had to make a choice: either leave the chick Ashley to die, or the dude Kaiden to die. Some canon Shepherds left the chick, other canon Shepherds left the dude.
 * Later, the arch nemesis guy Saren attacked the citadel. The canon Shepherds were left with another choice: some sacrificed part of the Alliance fleet to save the Citadel Council, other canon Shepherds had the Alliance fleet wait to take out Sovereign, the evil machine thing bent on killing everyone in the galaxy, sacrificing the Citadel Council. When facing down Saren, some canon Shepherds managed to talk enough sense into him to cause him to commit suicide, making Sovereign's life a little harder. Others had to fight him.
 * After this, the canon Shepherds that saved the council had to choose somebody to sit on the council and represent humanity. The canon Shepherds that didn't save the council appointed someone to either lead an all-human council (if the canon Shepherds in question were renegade), or to lead a multi-racial council (if the canon Shepherds in question were paragon).
 * Later, all canon Shepherds got blown up by a collector ship.




 * There... You now have an excellent start to a section on the CANON SHEPHERD. I'll let you fill in any blanks and do the ME2 part.
 * In all seriousness, what the HELL is your obsession with CANON? The character import feature lets you make your own canon! In Neverwinter Nights 2, you're given the option to backstab your entire group and slaughter them all in the name of the King of Shadows, the big bad guy, provided your character's alignment is Evil. But guess what? When you play Mask of the Betrayer, the game's first expansion, it ASSUMES that you kill the King of Shadows, even if you continue playing with the same character that joined the big bad guy, which is kind of awkward. Let me draw an analogy to Mass Effect for you: I save the Citadel Council, I let the Rachni queen go, and I spare Urdnot Wrex on Virmire. When I bring said Commander Shepherd into Mass Effect 2, because canon MUST be satisfied, the Citadel Council died in Saren's attack, I was an asshole and killed the Rachni queen, and I shot Wrex on Virmire. Alright... Yay canon. Now, why the hell did I play ME1 again? To hell with official canon! We'll carve our own, just like Bioware intended! Tanooki1432 19:17, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Expanding on that point, I also want to point out that John Shepard (or Jane Shepard) is not "canon" Shepard. He is the default Shepard and is meant to allow players to jump right into the game without spending the time to customize their character.  I'm sure there were a lot of FPS/TPS gamers who picked up ME2 this time, and those kinds of gamers typically don't want to spend the time to personalize their characters.  They just want to jump in and play the game for the action and not worry to much about the RPG aspects.  &mdash;ArmeniusLOD 12:55, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

In my experience, video games are never canon. Star Wars and Star Trek video games spring immediately to mind, as movies and TV shows are their only sources of canon. Ed Greenwood mentions that for AD&D's Forgotten Realms, only printed products are canon (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Forgotten_Realms_Wiki:Canon). As something of a n00b to this wiki, I don't know what the developers or producers of ME have said, but I'd shy away from trying to include anything more than absolutely necessary under the "canon" umbrella. PhoenixBlue 19:42, June 9, 2010 (UTC)


 * Free-standing video game series tend to carve their own Canon as they run. Starcraft and Warcraft are two examples that I can think of: two individual IPs (Intellectual Properties) owned by a single company (Blizzard Entertainment). As Blizzard makes new games in those IPs and the IP's individual universe, "canon" is established: Sarah Kerrigan is a royal b**** and the current big bad guy of the series. Arthas is an evil bastard and players kill him. Lore and canon are established stating that he has been killed by adventurers (players). When it comes to video games of IPs that didn't originally start out as video games (again, Star Wars and Star Trek for example), whether or not the game is considered "canon" depends entirely on the original owner to the rights. I believe that in the case of Star Trek for example, video games are NOT considered "canon". Sometimes, if something is considered "canon" or not can vary. For example, in the Warhammer 40,000 universe, the Blood Ravens Space Marine chapter is considered a "canon" Space Marines chapter. The chapter originated from a book, but got its fame in a video game (Dawn of War). I don't know how "canon" something like the Neverwinter Nights games are, but I think the designers could do just about anything they wanted to as long as they didn't drastically change the existing lore or "canon" of Forgotten Realms. A specific example with the NWN series is in MotB, the designers wanted to give the player the option to bring down the Wall of the Faithless, but it was deemed too drastic of an impact to the lore, so it was scaled down (Ironically, I think the wall came down in 4th Edition Forgotten Realms). Tanooki1432 19:56, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * P.S here: Blizzard does not generally use the term "canon" with their games, as they have a tendency to Retcon things significantly. In the case of Mass Effect, and Bioware leaving it up to the player, I don't really think the term "canon" can ever really apply to the series. Tanooki1432 19:59, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Calling for canon in a game that is inherently canon-less (and even more so than most, as this time, unlike in KOTOR and KOTOR II, there's no Lucas network behind you setting canon for an RPG) is pretty much pointless. I mean, when the lead writer comes out and says there is no canon Shepard (no, not even the one in the ads!) you should probably listen to him. But some people don't seem to take too kindly to that approach. It borders on anarchy, I guess. SpartHawg948 20:09, June 9, 2010 (UTC)
 * Chimming in :) Cannon Wars can be pretty nasty among fans of great series. And it seems that conflicts over "what's cannon" almost always (if not "always") arise over things that the producers of the series don't want to have any cannon. There are various reasons for them leaving blank spaces like this: to provide replay value and longevity (for video games), or to provide a breathing space for tie-ins and sequels (or reboots or retcons, for that matter). Bioware clearly don't want to make a canon out of the gender of Shepard. They even advertise it in-game: "play with different gender or class to get a totally different experience." (Something like that, I can't remember the verbatim quote.) Of course they had to pick something for advertising purposes: a male soldier Shepard. But RPG veterans everywhere understand that the ad-boy may not even represent the most enjoyable experience for many of us. So far, Sentinels are for me. Should Bioware make a PvP, or Shep vs Shep online shoot-out, I think I can defeat most of the Soldier Sheps out there. To conclude: the only canon for RPG game series is that everything customizable in the character customization screens CAN NOT be made canon. Braveangel 11:00, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * I think this person speaks true. But for some reason, some people just HAVE to have canon in everything. Hence the reason I suggested that the original poster to this crazy argument not play World of Warcraft, since Blizzard tends to avoid the word "canon" like the plague. Personally, I like Bioware's attitude towards this allowing each individual player to carve their own "canon" how they see fit and not being constrained with some pre-determined set of events (like what I described above with Neverwinter Nights 2). I noticed in the first issue of the comic thing that came with my Collector's Edition of ME2 (with the Collector's weapon and armor. Get it? COLLECTOR'S weapon and armor in the Collector's edition? ba-dum-tsh! Yeah... I know that's bad, but it's 0900 here, cut me some slack) they went out of their way to avoid using a gender and first name when referring to Shepherd, using either just "Shepherd" or "the commander" or "Commander Shepherd", allowing the reader to place their own individual Shepherd(s) in the story. Tanooki1432 13:01, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
 * Me too! I find games where the player sets the canon to be rather refreshing. Of course, no game is entirely free-form (at least none I've played), as you still blow up Sovereign, or stop the Collectors, or defeat Darth Malak, or defeat Jack of Blades or Lord Lucian, or stop Mehrunes Dagon (to cite just a few of my favorites!), but all the other details such as how, and with whom, and the repercussions, are left up to you! Gotta love it! :) SpartHawg948 18:45, June 11, 2010 (UTC)

Quote
This quote doesn't really provide a good telling of Shepard's character. It emphasizes his "action hero, kick some ass" side, but not the side that most of the series focuses on. I think a new quote should be selected. 70.109.163.193 08:44, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Two questions: Which quote are you referring to, and do you have any alternate suggestions? I'm assuming you are referring to the quote at the top of the article, and not the ME2 section quote, as the former is more 'action here, kick some ass' than the latter, but best to be sure. SpartHawg948 08:46, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Why, yes, yes I am. Maybe something like him telling the counsel about the Reapers or something. You know, badass, but not too charged up and brutal. YEAH! 70.109.163.193 08:50, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Gotcha. I was hoping for a little more specific, though. Something that could be implemented quick-like, as opposed to having to go and root around for one. Still, it's a start. SpartHawg948 08:50, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * How's 'bout: "I tried to warn you about Saren, and you refused to face the truth. Don't make the same mistake again." Dammej 08:59, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Good, but I am thinking something that relates to his entire persona. Dammej's one is more specific towards plot, as is the current one. One that relates to his whole character would be better as a head quote. His interactions with the council can show his personality comin' out, so that is why I suggested that. 70.109.163.193 09:02, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Additionally, Dammej's quote does present some spoiler issues. Not big ones, to be sure, but still... The current quote also toes that line, which would be another reason to axe it, but at the same time, doesn't state explicitly who is being referred to, and by the time it could spoil something for you, you'd likely have learned it on your own. So yeah, any new quote would have to be spoiler-free. SpartHawg948 09:06, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Aw, really? That was about the closest you could get to being spoiler free (and not utterly boring) in my brief search of council interations on youtube. I don't really think it's any more spoilerific than the current one, anyway. Finding a quote that "brings out his personality" is going to be tough. Is shepard the tree-hugging paragon or the don't-take-crap-from nobody renegade? Another thought: Perhaps he's bipolar? Anyway, I can't do a thorough search at the momemnt, perhaps another time. Dammej 09:13, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * There are lots of places in the game where all three options result in the same response, quite lamely. One of those would be could. If not, a neutral one would be the best fit. 70.109.163.193 09:21, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

Without proper context, the present quote is completely ambiguous. Said context is a pretty big spoiler, so a change is quite warrented. 70.109.163.193 09:10, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Odd... I thought I just got done saying just that. :P SpartHawg948 09:13, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 * Err, I guess I didn't fully voice what I meant to say. Been up like 20 hours now. Chased my damn dog for like 30 minutes through the woods earlier. Pretty worn out. Feel like salarian. What I meant to say in my previous post, was that to someone who did not know to whom the present quote refers, it is completely meaningless. So another should be picked. 70.109.163.193 09:18, June 22, 2010 (UTC)