Forum:N7 Academy Partnership Proposal

OK gang, here's the deal: the fine folks at N7Academy.com have proposed a partnership between our wiki and their site. Basically, from what I'm seeing here, the site, which is primarily a community-oriented and fan-based site, would like to partner with us to provide their audience with a ready resource for factual information about the ME universe. They, in turn, would provide more in the way of an outlet for the community, particularly for the most creative aspects of the community, since Wikia's community-oriented side is a bit minimalist. They would also be willing to highlight aspects of our site, featuring our articles periodically, giving us our own forum, etc. They also highlight the potential for increased web traffic to both sites. Due to the nature of this proposal, it's not something that the admins should decide for the site behind closed doors. So I bring it before the community to discuss and decide upon. Since I'm probably doing only a half-decent job summing this up, I've asked the representative if he'd be willing to address this directly, and will reserve a place for him to do so.

Due to this, and to the ongoing nature of this discussion, I'll hold off on opening voting for now.

N7Academy Proposal
Hello folks. My name is Jason, but I go by Koyote, most everywhere. I want to point out first, that you all have done such a fantastic job maintaining the wiki, I use it quite often. We at N7A have a clear goal in mind, and our goal is to be a "one stop shop" for all things Mass Effect. And to that end, we would like to work with you to achieve that goal.

Since you do have a very dedicated staff to the wiki, one of the things we could offer you is, acknowledgment of those efforts by spotlighting a particular article, or even a particular contributor on the front page. Setting up forums wouldn't be an issue either. If you have a particular person or persons wanting to moderate those forums (if its even necessary) we can set that up as well. A partnership will likely increase traffic to both the wiki and our site due to the influx of newer members coming every day. If you feel you have things to contribute to our end of things, be it art, web page design, or even presentation, then please by all means come forward and let us know.

If there are any questions, please feel free to ask. Koyote N7 (Talk)

Preliminary Voting (Closed)
Just a reminder folks, this vote is to authorize negotiations, not to finalize any deal. As of now, there appears to be adequate support for the proposal I made (Me acting as our negotiator, consulting persons on and off the wiki as needed), so that's what's up! VOTING WILL BE OPEN FROM 20-27 AUGUST

For

 * 1) As proposer and all that. SpartHawg948 08:00, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) Based on suggestions others and myself have made. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 14:09, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) As MEWiki member and owner of N7A. N7 Spectre 19:45, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 4) Based on the chance to help support the fan community while keeping it separate from the facts of the wiki.--Xaero Dumort 19:49, August 20, 2011 (UTC)
 * 5) Per what I typed in the "Voting Parameters" section. LordDeathRay 02:15, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 6) -- Commdor  (Talk) 02:23, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 7) As it will help us both, support --Bluegear93 08:35, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) While I do support opening discussions, I do not support just having one person. Therefore I am voting here. Lancer1289 02:40, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

Against

 * 1) As I am solidly against the entire proposal and have seen or heard nothing to dissuade that opinion, I vote against.--Captainhu 04:32, August 26, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) Per Captainhu and RiftJargon. Darth Gheis 16:59, August 26, 2011 (UTC)

And there you have it, folks. Voting is closed, with the proposal passing 7-1-2. Looks like I need to put on my negotiator hat. Fun fun!!! I'll let you fine folks know when I have some news. SpartHawg948 08:07, August 28, 2011 (UTC)

Finalized Terms
Ok guys, this is gonna take a little while. There's a lot here... most of it is pretty straight-forward, and there's only a little bit each site would be actively giving the others at the moment, mostly links and all that. A few of the items on both sides are long-term, or hypothetical at this point in time, or redundant, etc.

What we give them

 * A link to their site on our front page, similar to those for the AC and DA Wikis, under a section entitled "Affiliated Sites"
 * A guarantee of preferential treatment if we partner with other sites. What this means is, if we partner with another website, we won't bump N7Academy's link down to make room for the new one. The new site goes under N7A. We do, however, reserve the right to give priority to "official" sites, such as the official BioWare site, in the unlikely event that they want to partner with us.
 * When appropriate, Wiki admins and senior editors will direct editors to N7A. For example, if someone is uploading fan art, or asking about posting fan fiction or something, we can send them to N7A.
 * A link to their site on our Facebook page
 * Regular (monthly or some such) meetings between leadership of both sites. Nothing too complicated, just chat rooms or something, 15 minutes or so at a time, and the meetings aren't mandatory. If someone can make them, cool. If they can't, that's fine too.

What they give us

 * A link to the Wiki on the main page. It'll be a prominent one, not buried in the bottom or anything.
 * Moderator status in the forums for myself and one or two editors of my choosing. (Initially. More may be added later at N7A's discretion) These individuals would make a few posts on their forums as appropriate, and keep an eye on our dedicated forums on their site.
 * If portions of our wiki (articles and such) are copied and used on their site, proper attribution will be given. They'll credit our site and make sure people know where the info came from. Offer Retracted by N7Academy
 * A dedicated sub-forum for our use. It won't replace talk pages, in all likelihood, but could augment them.
 * Featured articles for wiki-related topics, delivered via RSS feed to Twitter and Facebook.
 * Web space. They've offered up to 1 GB of space on their site, with the potential for increases as-needed, should we require web space separate from Wikia for any reason.
 * Integration of features such as Featured Articles and news on to their site via dynamic content blocks. Offer Retracted by N7Academy

For

 * 1) -- Commdor  (Talk) 15:16, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) Ok. You won me over with webspace.--144.96.212.163 18:49, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Neutral

 * 1) There are things I like and don't like about this, and because of my conflicted nature, seeing both the good and the bad, I find myself having to vote neutral. I doubt that my mind will change over the course of voting period. Lancer1289 00:35, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Against

 * 1) Strongly opposed. What they now offer is not commensurate with what we give. SpartHawg948 06:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * 2) I was willing to go along with this as I've come to trust SpartHawg948's judgement in relation to this site, but I'm old enough to know I should always obey my first instincts. Now I am not only opposed to the current terms, I am permanently and irrevocably opposed to all future dealings with N7Academy.  When you negotiate you do so in good faith, and once a deal is struck, for good or ill, you stick to it if you are honorable.  This renunciation of the agreed terms is appalling, and we should have nothing more to do with them now or in the future.  Opposed.--Captainhu 07:14, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
 * 3) I now oppose, as the N7 Academy have retreated the two offers that could have helped us noticeable. Bluegear93 07:22, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Discussion
So, in case people haven't gathered as much yet, I'm supportive of the proposed partnership. I think it would be a good way to go, and a good way to expand our audience and increase web traffic and all that. Lately I've been looking into ways to do this, with the latest expression of this being the new ME Wiki Facebook page. I don't really any downside here, provided that we make sure to clearly delineate between the Wiki and N7Academy, to prevent an influx of fanon and fan material into the wiki proper. However, I think the chances of this becoming a problem are fairly slim. This partnership can increase traffic, bring greater attention to the Wiki, enhance our community support, and really set us apart from competitors, so I'm for it. SpartHawg948 23:20, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm leaning towards accepting this supposed proposal. It will give us more coverage without merging the two pages together. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 23:29, August 11, 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm open to the idea of a partnership, but I'd like to see the proposal in Koyote N7's own words. Partnering with a fan site would be a big step for the wiki, and we should make sure we know what we're getting into. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:19, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Commdor I forwarded the email I got to you and you should have received it several hours ago. As for the proposal, I really do need to think about it a bit more before giving my opinion. Lancer1289 00:22, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, I don't check my email often enough. Thanks, Lancer. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:33, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Tullis, via email correspondence with me, had a few questions as well, and some alternatives, should they prove necessary. The questions are more general ones for us to consider while discussing this than anything she wants answered herself. - The partnership will go as little or as complicated as you all would like. We can offer you our resources if interested, or just a simple link at the end of the day. I want to make things as painless as possible for people. -Koyote N7 (Talk)- As for alternatives, she offers the following (quoted directly): I think she makes some excellent points, and have been pondering this myself. I don't think we need to worry about a huge influx of sites seeking partnerships, and we can consider any that do on a case-by-case basis, using this discussion as a baseline. As for where, probably somewhere on the main page seems best, perhaps a new "Affiliated Sites" section. Anywho, I figured I'd post them here, since Tullis did opine on this. SpartHawg948 01:09, August 12, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) What form will this "partnership" take? Links to their site (and links to the Wiki on their site)? If so, where will these links go?
 * 1) Will this lead to more sites (potentially many more sites) seeking partnerships with us?
 * 2) If so, how will we deal with this?
 * 3) Do we want to be seen as endorsing other sites?
 * Admins agreeing to display a link on their user page
 * Starting a "fan site spotlight" weekly feature and looking for other good sites to feature in it. Not sure where that would go though; maybe on the front page under featured article or something. Again, we'd somehow have to determine what sites make the cut, and we'd probably get a lot of flak for it if we choose not to feature someone's site.
 * Doing a nice big blog post about their site and say how awesome it is (it does look pretty good). That could double as the fan site spotlight if you want to keep it going; that would be my personal preference.
 * If only she came back for real to the wiki to really establish an input. At least she still corresponds by email. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 01:56, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

Greetings, all. I'm the administrator over at N7 Academy (aka "Infinite") and wanted to thank you all for taking the time to consider this partnership. I believe Koyote is in contact with you by email, so I'll leave it to him to discuss the details, but suffice to say I think this could work to both our advantages. I like a lot of the ideas I've seen in this discussion, particularly the idea of having a sub-forum dedicated to the wiki. I think this, along with more common methods like linking, banners, etc., is a good place to start. There would be no problem on my side granting moderator privileges to your staff in such a scenario.

I don't know exactly the extent to which you imagine this partnership can go, but I can see N7 Academy becoming an "official" partner to this site. This is the direction I'm aiming for, rather than just being an "affiliate" or a "featured site". I understand, though, that this kind of relationship would take some time to develop... so I leave it to you to consider how best to proceed. I invite you all to register at N7 Academy if you'd like to get a better idea of the site's features and what we have planned for the future. If you have any questions, you can always contact Koyote or myself. Cheers. N7 Spectre 03:19, August 12, 2011 (UTC)


 * This sounds like something that in the end could be extremely beneficial. It would work as to streamline the wiki for one, as all of the fan necessities are covered by N7 Academy, and we give the fans known access to complete information for the ME series. I haven't really seen any other wiki take this kind of step and I feel that this is a good move for the communities. By having a joint working in some way shape or form, we are ensuring that the wiki is filled with support and having a wider berth. This would also help the wiki stay a factual resource as all fan work could easily be directed to N7. This is something that will really help all of us as fans. I don't think this should be seen as any sort of endorsement, just a conscious effort to maintain two separate autonomous communities that benefit from referring to each other. To answer the question about other sites seeking partnership, that's something that should only be judged as it comes as the community also feels about the worth of doing that, just as they are here.--Xaero Dumort 06:40, August 12, 2011 (UTC)

@Xearo, This is exactly what I was trying to say but couldn't find the words for some reason. ;p As I said previously, our goal is to be a "one stop shop" for all things Mass Effect. One could look at our site for news, fan art, discussions, ect. related to Mass Effect while those looking for factual information could look to the wiki and vice versa. Koyote N7 (Talk)

Voting Parameters
Ok, so it's been a few days without comment, so let's talk voting! Here's what I'm thinking, and feel free to opine, whether for or against. Now, this is still pretty nebulous, with nothing concrete on the table yet. As such, any vote can't really be to approve or reject the partnership per se. Sooo... what I think we should vote on is whether or not to move to the next stage here, formal negotiations with N7Academy.com to come up with specifics. Now, to the specifics of this proposal: I think that, while group discussions and committees work great in real life or for strictly inter-wiki discussion, for something like this, it's impractical. So, I'd prefer for one person to head up the negotiations for our side. And, given that I'm ultimately the one responsible, since I'm the Bureaucrat and all, I think I'd be best suited for it. No ego here, just thinking that, as the one on the chopping block, the one who started the discussion, and the one everyone will ultimately be chasing with pitchforks and torches if this doesn't end well, I do have a vested interest in this! :P

If the community accepts this idea, I'd carry out the negotiations to the best of my ability (obviously), and would consult with several individuals, both folks on the wiki and some people knowledgeable in other relevant fields, during the process, and I would ultimately agree to nothing binding. Any agreement reached between myself and the people from N7Academy.com would be contingent on the community agreeing, via another vote. So, in summation: I propose we open voting to begin negotiations, as opposed as a straight up-and-down vote on the partnership. Any other opinions or ideas for how to go about it would be greatly appreciated, as would support or opposition to my proposal. Consider it a pre-vote vote! :P SpartHawg948 08:38, August 15, 2011 (UTC)


 * Support--Xaero Dumort 20:09, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I love going to this wiki and I love Mass Effect, but I went to that fan site and I thought it looked kinda stupid. I get that we're trying to make some sort of archive for all things Mass Effect, but I just don't think this is the way to go. I've never really been a fan of fan art, most of the stuff I saw on the site we already have on the wiki or could easily get. I think the only thing that I saw that would really make an impact was the story about how the guy made a real-life version of the Mass Effect rifle, and the date of the Mass Effect convention. So I'm gonna have to say the I'm against it. OPPOSED RiftJargon 20:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

I'd like to raise a concern regarding this vote. I understand the way wikis work and support your decision to make it a public one. I ask only that you consider the possibility that some votes against this might have ulterior motives. I don't want to get into details, but this possibility has already reared its head. So, to any wiki member reading this, I ask that you make up your own minds concerning advantages this partnership might bring, rather than rely on flippant, uninformed remarks regarding the site in question. I have history here, albeit short-lived. I still use the wiki as a primary resource and find it helpful in many ways. I'm as dedicated a person as you will find when it comes to Mass Effect and will put in the kind of work that is required to make this partnership a success, along with those in my staff that are motivated to. N7 Spectre 23:34, August 15, 2011 (UTC)

Um was that last comment directed toward the general public or just me? Because so far I'm the only one who has listed OPPOSED as his vote. That leads me to believe that you are trying to raise concern over just one vote. My vote. And if that is the case then that doesn't fly with me. If it isn't the case, please explain to me who else you (N7 Spectre) are directing this comment to.RiftJargon 01:29, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

In response to Spart's comment, I support his idea to negotiate with N7Academy on behalf of the wiki. -- Commdor (Talk) 01:39, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

I've been following and contributing in small ways to the wiki for a while now as an unregistered user. I registered just so I could comment on this discussion on even grounds with everyone.

I come to the wiki for information, and the wiki is very good at providing that information. I don't have to worry about rumors, advertisements, fan-fiction, or agenda here. I feel there is a chance that could change if this partnership goes forward. The danger I see is the idea that N7Academy, which I have been visiting for the past few days and like quite a bit, could be considered an "official" partner to the wiki. That is to say, the impression could be that everything on N7Academy could be considered approved by the editors here or held to the same standard as articles and such on the wiki. I'm not saying this would happen only that this could be the public perception. This could be bad for obvious reasons. I can already see someone making an edit to an article and using something from N7Academy as the source, since it is "officially" associated with the wiki. Additionally, I truly don't see the benefit to the wiki. The quality of the articles here speak for themselves, and the site is already high enough in a Google search for all things Mass Effect that if anyone needs info they come here automatically. What do we really want to gain with this? I would need much more convincing to even consider voting for this to move forward, so I vote against.--Captainhu 04:17, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * OK... let's respond to concerns raised here... RiftJargon was first, I believe. I'm not sure where the notion of an archive came from... so I can't really respond to it. What we're looking to do is find another location for a lot of the more social aspects, as Wikia isn't really set up for that sort of thing, and its attempts to provide a venue for this with the blogs and forums are a bit lackluster. We're not necessarily saying there's tons of new stuff there that can't be found here, it's more about offering our editors other options, and expanding the community and all that. Having said that, I understand I probably haven't fully addressed your concerns, for which I apologize.


 * Next was Captainhu. Just to point out, there will be absolutely no change in the content of this wiki if this partnership goes forward. You like the wiki because of a lack of rumors, adverts, fan-fiction, or agenda in the articles and, frankly, I couldn't agree more. This would not change under any partnership. If I get approval to begin negotiations, know that any attempt to alter our content as a condition of the partnership agreement will be instantly rejected by me. It's a deal-breaker. As for your concern about an affiliation seeming to place our stamp of approval on all their content, it's a valid one. We can take steps to state that this is not the case, but I can't guarantee these would be sufficient to address your concerns. The rest of your comment, about lack of any benefit, in your opinion, is also a valid point, and I can't really argue it. I'd just point out that this could be a chance to really set ourselves apart from the pack. We aren't the only Mass Effect wiki, after all, not even the only one on Wikia. Sure, we're undoubtedly the most well-known and frequented, but this could always change, hence my desire for innovation. That's really all I can say on the matter. Anywho, your votes opposed are noted, and I thank you both for your input, and for taking the time to contribute. On something of this import, we really need to hear all sorts of opinions, pro and con, so it's really appreciated. Thanks! SpartHawg948 07:50, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with SpartHawg948's comments and would like to reiterate that this is for the opportunity to negotiate only... no terms have been agreed on. Some ideas have been put forth simply to consider the possibilities, but none of this is final or even representative of all we can bring to the table.  Under no circumstance do I see N7 Academy determining the Wiki's content.  We are not a wiki ourselves and have no database of factual information that would even make that possible.  As SpartHawg948 mentions, we offer more community-based features and provide fans an outlet to voice opinions and ideas of all kinds.  That said, a quick glance at the articles on our home page will show that there is no "agenda" at N7 Academy beyond providing a feature-rich community for Mass Effect fans.  All news is fact-based and we offer a separate blog feature for members to voice opinions.  What is there at present is also just the beginning.  We're relatively new on the scene, but have plans to offer members a great deal more in the future.N7 Spectre 12:39, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

Why am I awake so early? It's 6:30 AM over here and I'm not heading to school until the 28th. So why am I awake? I don't know either xD. Now, about this partnership, I'm actually looking forward to it. Provided there's an RP section over there, I can create or join a few RPs and show my RP skills (since I'm a professional RPer). Plus, I'm a sucker for a fan based community, a chance to really get to know the people that you work with from here, and vice versa. I hope I'm not typing poorly, as I just woke up and it's early here. APPROVED LordDeathRay 10:28, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comments and for registering this morning. We're not an RP site, per se, but have a sub-forum that can serve that purpose. N7 Spectre 12:41, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * You're very welcome. I'm excited to be one of the first Mass Effect Wiki regulars to sign up on the site, and that there's a sub-forum for RPs. YAY! LordDeathRay 19:29, August 16, 2011 (UTC)

I know I said a while ago that I'd have to think about it, but since we are talking about terms first, I really don't like the option of just one person doing the talks, even with outside resources. I have no objection to Spart doing it, but at the same time, I would like to suggest that there be one other person, who isn't an admin, doing the talks with him. Am I attached to this idea, no, but someone to represent the general community, which I would think to be a senior editor or someone who is here often, would be a good idea. That way we can get opinions about impact form the top down, both on the community side, and on the administration side. Again I'm not attached to the idea, and I still have my reservations about the proposal itself, but I'll reserve those until I see the terms, if and when they are negotiated. Lancer1289 22:18, August 16, 2011 (UTC)
 * Ok gang, I'll give it about another day or so, and then see about opening voting. As of right now, it looks like it's 5-3 in favor of the parameters I suggested. (Myself, LDR, Xaero, Commdor, and N7 Spectre in favor, Lancer, Captainhu, and Riftjargon opposed) It also looks like there will be something similar coming down soon. An inter-wiki partnership proposal which should hopefully be a little simpler... SpartHawg948 09:59, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * I may be able to join the negotiations, per Lancer's supposed idea regarding a non-admin joining the group... either me or one of the other SEs. I do meet the criteria mentioned above, and I do have at least some opinion on this matter. Granted there is some trepidation regarding a partnership betwwen these two sites (particularly when the other site isn't a wiki as well); even though I'm still leaning towards accepting the proposal. As a result, this has my supporting vote. Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 13:19, August 17, 2011 (UTC)
 * What's your say on Lancer's suggestion and my reply to it Spart? Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem 14:07, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Still not a fan of multiple parties due to the added delay it'll cause. It's already going to be at least two weeks till anything can go forward (due to two votes and all), so I'd really like to expedite the process, and avoid the whole "too many chefs spoil the soup" thing. I went into great detail in an email to Lancer, but nobody can see that here... so, basically, I'm personally opposed to the idea, but were the community to support it, obviously that's what we'd do. SpartHawg948 19:43, August 20, 2011 (UTC)

Terms are posted, people! After a lot of back-and-forth and haggling, these are the terms agreed upon. So let me know what you all think. It's just past midnight on the 7th here, so the voting will be open till the 14th. Should be easy to remember. SpartHawg948 07:02, October 7, 2011 (UTC)

Questions about terms
I felt that since the terms are now posted, I figured we should probably have a separate section on this page for questions about them. So I did this.

I currently cannot vote because I have a few questions and I'd like to have some clarification on them. I would appreciate these questions being answered because they will directly influence my vote. I should be back on later to see the answers. Lancer1289 23:55, October 7, 2011 (UTC)
 * 1) Could we specify where these monthly meetings would take place? I would rather not have to open an account at some random site just for this purpose.
 * 2) What is meant by this statement: "A dedicated sub-forum for our use. It won't replace talk pages, in all likelihood, but could augment them"?
 * 3) While I know that there are probably some things that will have to be worked out at a later date, this statement is just way to general and vague for my personal tastes. I cannot support any proposal that would have us taking appropriate talk page discussions to another site as this only makes things more difficult. I also cannot support us replacing talk pages with things from another site or directing people there even if their topics are appropriate. If this is a case, then I will have to oppose these terms. We still have talk pages for a reason.
 * 4) Some clarification on the statement: "Integration of features such as Recent Articles and news on to their site via dynamic content blocks". What exactly does this mean?
 * Well, you can always vote, even if you have questions. That's one of the reasons we have a "Neutral" section. Now... as to the issues:
 * Who's we? I can't specify, if that's what you're asking. And I can only answer for myself, not "we". All I can say is that the goal is to be as accomadating as possible. Don't want to open an account at some random site? In the (unlikely, IMO) scenario in which this happens, don't attend. As stated, these meetings are non-mandatory. This is one of the details we'd work out later, similar to the issue of link placement.
 * I don't see anything vague or general here. It means what it says. Of course it doesn't mean replacing talk pages with things from another site or directing people there if their topics are appropriate. It explicitly says as much when it says "It won't replace talk pages". I don't see it getting more specific than that. What this means is that, when people post things which lead to a reply of "That isn't appropriate for a talk page", we now have another option for where to send them. The forum can also be used for pretty much anything else. This is just one possible use, and it says right there in it that it won't replace talk pages.
 * Again, this one means exactly what it says, with one exception: I typed "recent" instead of "featured". Their site supports dynamic content blocks. They've offered to use these to showcase elements of our site, such as featured articles, news items, etc. The rest of the discussion involved coding issues, so I didn't include it, feeling it wasn't relevant. Again though, it meant exactly what it said. I'm not sure how I can clarify it further. I'll see if I can get one of their guys to explain it from their perspective if so desired. SpartHawg948 06:30, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

Reply retracted --N7 Spectre 22:05, October 8, 2011 (UTC)
 * I will point out that I couldn't vote because I didn't feel comfortable casting a vote without having a complete picture. I wasn't going to vote neutral because I didn't feel comfortable doing so until I had the questions answered. I'd rather cast a vote having the full picture, than having one that is incomplete on something like this.
 * As to the answers, ok so the choice of "we" was probably in error, but I was just seeing some clarification on where they would. Since that wasn't really worked out, I guess I'll wait for further details.
 * The second was a real concern because I could easily see that if we keep directing people to another site for some discussions, they might assume that all discussions should take place there, regardless of what we say. I just wanted some clarification on what the forum would be used for. I did state that I know some details would still have to be worked out, but still, I just wanted to see if there was something already discussed and what was.
 * I just wanted to know what this was and from what I see, I just means what I thought it would, but still, I'd rather just make sure I know what I'm thinking.
 * All said, there are some things I like, and some I don't, so I'm forced to vote neutral. Lancer1289 00:33, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah... about that... see below. I imagine some votes will be changing. SpartHawg948 05:59, October 9, 2011 (UTC)

UPDATE
So, N7Academy has retracted some of what they offered. The long and short is: They wanted access to our news section to post news from/about their site. I said no, for a number of reasons. They then retracted two of their offerings. See above for which ones.This has led me to reconsider the deal, and to find the terms distinctly lacking.

Let's be completely honest here: Even under the conditions I negotiated, which I think were fair to all sides, N7Academy was going to benefit much more from this than we were. They stand to gain a link to their site on our main page, while we get one on theirs. Most, if not all, of their contributors likely already peruse this wiki. Most of our contributors never heard of their site before they approached us. Moreover, through our interwiki partnerships, they would be indirectly connected to two other very large and well-trafficked wikis, the DA and AC wikis. Obviously, this benefits them much more than it does us. They were giving us some nice, albeit mostly superfluous, bells and whistles. We would be giving them a link on our Facebook page, time out of our schedules, participation in their site, and we'd be sending people their way. Again, advantage N7Academy. I was willing to go along with it, as some of the features they offered were kinda neat. Now, however...

Now, their offer does not seem commensurate with what we would be giving them. It's an offer which now doesn't moderately favor them, it strongly favors them. And it's not a deal I'm comfortable voting for, or a deal I'd be comfortable enforcing, certainly not on the editors who would be expected to take time out of their schedules in furtherance of a bad deal. IF N7Academy is okay with going back to the deal I agreed to, the one originally listed above, I'll support it. But not this gutted version. They're asking for too much and offering too little in return. SpartHawg948 05:59, October 9, 2011 (UTC)