Forum:Chat Live! Policy Expansion

Forums: Index > Policy > Chat Live! Policy Expansion

This page is for discussing a policy related to the Mass Effect Wiki that may or may not be passed by the community. The Form below serves to describe the Policy and what it is about, or what it will modify.

Policy:

Description of Policy: Additions to the Chat Live! Rules to use the feature. Full description Below.

Notes:
Supporting links or images:

Other Notes

The following consists of all additions to Chat Live! Policies and procedures.

Additions to the Introduction Section

All users must realize that the Chat Live! feature is still a part of the Mass Effect Wiki, and is therefore subject to all rules, regulations, and policies that govern the rest of the wiki. Any user found in violation of the Chat Live! Policies, or any site policy, can be subject to a kick or ban from chat, or even a general ban.

New Section “Description”

The Chat Live! feature, looks and is like an Internet Relay Chat, commonly known as IRC, that are found on other sites. The feature is provided by the Wikia staff as an extension of the Wiki. The chat feature is subject to both the rules listed here, and all other site policies listed in the Community Guidelines and Manual of Style. It is not a right to use Chat Live!, it is a privilege.

New section “Accessing Chat”

In order to utilize the Chat Live! feature of the Mass Effect Wiki, a user must accumulate Twenty (20) mainspace edits. Any type of edit will be counted, however it is encouraged that users make an attempt to clean up an article while doing so and not just make a bunch of small correction type edits.

In the process, if a user has 75%, or 15 of the edits undone with a valid reason, then the counter will be reset. It is true that edits are undone for a variety of reasons, some obvious, others not so much. The other stipulation is that if a user attempts to readd trivia that has been repeatedly added and removed in the past for a valid reason, it will count towards that limit. Attempts to add valid trivia will not be.

In addition, a user must have a valid account for 2 weeks. This means that the user must have made at the very least 1 edit every other day for two weeks, not create the account, make all of the edits the first day, then come back once the 2 week period has expired and use the Chat Live! feature. If this does become the case, the clock will be at set 13 days. If the user makes the 20 required edits over the two weeks, making at least an edit every other day, then they will be permitted to use Chat Live! at the conclusion of the two week time.

To summarize, a user must have a valid account for two weeks making an edit at least every other day, and 20 mainspace edits as described above.

If a user does not meet these requirements, then Admins and Chat moderators will kick the user from Chat Live! without warning or explanation.

If a Chat Moderator is uncertain if a user has met the criteria, then they reserve the right to allow a user to stay or kick them at their prerogative and forward the case to an admin for review. The admin can either agree or overrule the decision but must respect the decision the Chat Moderator’s decision at the time.

If a user has been kicked from Chat for any reason, before heading back into chat, it is highly encouraged that the user contact the person who kicked them on their talk page for the reason why. It is not encouraged that if you are kicked to reenter chat, but instead, seek out who kicked you and ask them why.

Under the “Ground for Blocking” Headline

If a user who has been banned from Chat Live! in the last 30 days, they will not be permitted to use the feature. Once the 30 day period expires after the ban expires, then and only then will they be permitted to utilize the feature. If a user violates this rule persistently, then they will face an additional ban for a much longer period of time.

Under the “Consequences” Headline

A user may question why they were kicked to the appropriate person. This should be the person who kicked them. But if they are not responding, or unavailable, they should contact another Chat Moderator, or an Admin. Admins again do maintain the right to overrule Chat Moderators on this decision. If you have been kicked, please do not reenter chat to question why as that will only compound your situation.

At the end of the page

Admins and Chat Moderators are responsible for enforcing this policy in its entirety.

Explanation

The reason for this additions is multiple instances of users coming into chat, not even bothering to read policies, proceeding to violate site policies, and causing problems. We have had more problems with people in Chat Live! following both sets of rules, both site policies, and Chat Policies, than in any other place on the wiki. This can no longer be tolerated. The following is a list of six users who entered Chat and proceeded to violate site policies for various reasons. There are more, but this is just a part of the main issue.

1. YamiX0: Here for nothing more than chat, breaks the language policy, has only a few talk page edits.
2. Sightmark: Multiple blog edits. No mainspace edits. Only used Chat and blogs. Created other accounts to get around block to just use chat. Now permabanned for sockpuppetry.
3. Addders889: Created account to just use chat. 1 mainspace edit. Used and broke language policy in chat.
4. 77 N7s: Created account for nothing from chat. Then made one talk page edit when no one was in chat that was responding to him. Raged in chat, broke language policy in chat and in wiki space.
5. Robbie2190: Banned from chat for language, then proceeded to violate same policy in mainspace.
6. AskChuckTWD: Warned multiple times in chat for violating policies. Could have kicked.

There are also several other users who on several occasions refused or had to be repeatedly told to follow the chat guidelines. There are also users who were kicked and banned from chat for violating site policies including harassment. This has to end, and it has become obvious that users who are in Chat don't know, or do not care about the policies because they never bother to read them and aren't familiar with them.

Forum Rules

1. When putting your vote, all users are can only put two things, a "#" and then their signature. No comments may be left in the Voting section. This can be done by simply putting "#~~~~". Any comments left in voting section, any at all, will be removed and put into the discussion section. This even means "I support this." Nothing more than a signature and a "#".
2. All users are required to only talk about the policy at hand, and nothing else. Any user who leaves comments or creates a conversations that distract from, or are irrelevant to this topic. This is to prevent irrelevant discussions and topics from entering this forum. This page is about the additions to the Chat Live! rules, and nothing else.
3. Any user in violation of these policies will be warned on their talk page, and if they continue, their comments will be removed, the user will no longer be permitted to comment, and their vote will be invalidated for distracting from the issue.

Voting

For

1. Lancer1289 (talk) 23:41, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
2. -- Commdor (Talk) 23:52, January 4, 2013 (UTC)
3. --Legionwrex (talk) 00:23, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
4. SpartHawg948 (talk) 09:29, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
5. Phantom Bootie Slap (talk) 11:38, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Neutral

1. Trandra (talk) 03:08, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Against

1. --Ygrain (talk) 06:35, January 5, 2013 (UTC)
2. LilyheartsLiara (talk) 15:16, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion

I still support this policy. 20 edits is a very modest thing to ask for, and the two weeks will allow uses to get used to our policies.--Legionwrex (talk) 00:25, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

In comparison to the previous proposal, this is more reasonable. I'll vote neutral for now. If it passes, then I won't feel as uncomfortable about enforcing it as I did about the previous one.

Some nitpicks:

• "The other stipulation is that if a user attempts to readd trivia that has been repeatedly added and removed in the past for a valid reason, it will count towards that limit."

The last clause in this sentence was confusing for me--did you mean "reset the counter" rather than "it will count towards that limit"? If you meant that it counts towards the 75% of edits undone, then it is redundant with "undone with a valid reason."

• "...however it is encouraged that users make an attempt to clean up an article while doing so and not just make a bunch of small correction type edits."

I would remove the part I struck out because it's better to emphasize the encouragement without the extra stuff clogging the issue.

• The stuff about making an edit every other day seems arbitrary. An example: a person that only has free time to edit on weekends made 10 good edits, one week later, made 10 good edits, then a week later, made 10 good edits. Is their counter at 3 or 14?

Trandra (talk) 03:22, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Basically, for the same reasons as before: I don't believe the chat is a privilege and that access to it should be restricted, especially if the behaviour of an unruly few should be the cause of restriction for everyone. Furthermore, as someone who has to cope with work and family, I find my time rather limited and am not thrilled by the idea of being told when and how often I should perform voluntary contributions. Finally, as has been pointed out previously, in the periods in between releases, worthwile edits will become more difficut to find. While performing 20 edits itself may not take that much time, finding something to edit might actually turn into a rather time-consuming process of combing through the wiki. --Ygrain (talk) 06:51, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

To that last issue ("worthwhile edits will become more difficult to find")... that's been addressed. Trust me, I know. My objections to the original draft are the reason that it's just 20 mainspace edits, not 20 major or substantive edits. The point behind this isn't to emphasize that chat is a privilege, but to remind people that chat is still a part of this wiki. An ancillary part, at that. This seems to be getting lost in translation with quite a few people who view the chat channel as nothing more than a convenient social networking site with no other affiliations. We now have concrete examples of exactly the sort of thing myself and others were warning about last time we voted on something like this. Needless to say, this proposal has my full support. SpartHawg948 (talk) 09:34, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

Though I still hate it, this sounds much more reasonable. I have to tell that I agree with Ygrain. I make an edit when I see something that needs to be edited, which isn't much. The problem is lack of editable things. It's really hard to find something that needs to be created / edited unless it's a fresh new DLC. However, with my salary I can't get DLCs right when they're released. And as for watching Youtube playthroughs, I don't want to spoil the fun for myself, even it's for the good of this awesome Wiki. But that's just my humble opinion, no need to criticise. Phantom Bootie Slap (talk) 14:50, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

While the mainspace edits requirement in this version is more reasonable than the prior proposal's requirement, I still object on the basis of the two-weeks requirement. A user having an account for an arbitrary number of days doesn't automatically mean that they are knowledgeable about the rules, nor does the "at the very least 1 edit every other day for two weeks" rule. A user should not be assumed to be ignorant of the rules simply because they are a new user, nor should a new user who has shown their desire to contribute to the quality of the site be unaccepted based not on the quality and quantity of their contributions but simply being new. LilyheartsLiara (talk) 15:33, January 5, 2013 (UTC)

And yet we have multiple documented cases of users, multiple users, being ignorant of the rules and they are always new. They do not bother to read the rules and it is proven. Therefore we have little choice in this matter. The two week period is designed to familiarize new users with the rules before they can use chat. Lancer1289 (talk) 15:44, January 5, 2013 (UTC)