Forum:Minor Characters

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Project: Minor Characters

A listing of minor characters who do not have their own pages

Currently developed by: TheUnknown285

Developer(s) notes: Just started. Have a skeleton of what I intend to do.

Status last updated:

Page location: User:TheUnknown285/Sandbox/Miscellaneous_Characters
Page should contain: See below
Supporting links or images: Background Races
Discussion on:

The Proposal

What I want to do is a listing of minor/miscellaneous characters that have been mentioned throughout the series and its expanded universe. These are characters where there is some amount of information available but probably not enough to warrant their own article. This would work the same away as the Background Races article where races where we can only come up with a paragraph of information and grouped together in a single article, allowing that information to be disseminated without having a bunch of super-short articles.

Formatting

• I have posted a link to a sandbox which shows an prototype version of this project. It's certainly not all the characters (I don't want to put too much work into it until I get a better idea if it's going to pass), but it does give an idea of what I'm going for.

• Characters would be listed alphabetically by family or clan name when available. So for krogan, it would be by first name (e.g., Urdnot Wrex listed under "U"). For quarians, they would be listed by the name following the apostrophe (e.g., Tali'Zorah would be listed under "Z.") The volus as they have no family names, so they would be listed by their first names. All other species would be listed by their last name.

• Each entry would being with a level two heading the includes only the character's name (i.e., no ranks or titles listed). So it would list "Christopher Huerta" and not "President Christopher Huerta."

• Character entries would probably be no more than a paragraph or two long (anything more and we should start considering their own article). The entries will describe who the character is and their involvement in the series. The characters' names should be in bold in keeping with the format used in other articles. As we are not using templates to list species and sex, the entry should mention or at least indicate in some way the character's species and sex, if known.

• Underneath the entry will be a trivia section using a level three heading. This would include things such as voice actor trivia, name trivia, references to other Bioware games, etc. If there is nothing to list, then there would be no trivia section.

Benefits

1. We are able to include more information in hopefully a more convenient fashion. Otherwise, information about these characters may be scattered amongst numerous other articles (like CDN stories or news reports), buried in much larger and mostly unrelated articles, or not even present at all on the wiki (such as with characters involved ambient conversations, which have not been transcribed here). In a lot of cases, these are interesting characters that add to the series and help make it interesting.

2. We avoid the creation of super-short articles. Although I'm not as opposed to such articles as others, I know a lot of people here feel articles should be a certain length to warrant creation.

3. It cuts down on discussions/arguments/hard feelings over said articles. Such discussions needlessly end up taking up a lot of wiki's recent activity space and could cause other activity to get lost in the shuffle when the wiki gets really busy. Moreover, no one likes to put legitimate, good-faith work into an article only to be told that it's not good enough or not valid and should be scrapped completely. That risks turning off editors and creating hostility toward the community and it's administrators. Additionally, I've seen such discussions happen multiple times over the same characters. I know character pages for Lilith have been created and deleted multiple times.

4. It allows us to see if certain characters do indeed have enough information available to warrant their own articles. For example, had a Miscellaneous Characters article existed beforehand, we might have avoided a lot of the controversy over an article for Bray. We could have simply added him to the Minor Characters article and seen that there was in fact enough information to warrant his own article.

Things to Be Refined

• Defining which characters should be included.
  • I think one thing warranting inclusion is having the character's actual name. But what about unnamed characters? I don't want crap like "Blue Suns Trooper #35," but characters like Garrus' father seem important enough to include. What about characters that have colloquial names like "Friendzone Turian"?
• Defining when there is enough information to warrant a character having a separate article.
  • I said three paragraphs, but is that enough. Does sending an e-mail count? This might be something that warrants a policy proposal in and of itself.
• Is one article enough?
  • I would imagine such an article could get very long and unwieldy after a while. Would we want to sub-divide it? If so how? By letter? By species? The issue with species is there are several species where there are only a handful of individuals worth including. For example, there has been only one raloi named in the entire series, so it would be silly to have an article for just raloi.
• Formatting
  • Any suggestions? I think it could probably be cleaned up. I'm also not sure how to handle any trivia, like noting that the character Sten is a reference to Dragon Age: Origins.

Things I Would Need Help On/Can't Do Myself

• Add pictures. Don't have the capability (or the knowledge) to extract picture files from the game or make good captures. I can and have added some pictures that were already on the Wiki.

• Redirects. I just don't know how to make them, so if I could be informed, that would be great.

• Expanded universe characters. I've just played the core games and have no exposure to the books, side games, comics, or the anime. So I would need help adding characters from here.

Comments

I approve the creation of this article. As to your queries:

• I would suggest renaming the article to Minor Characters as it sounds a bit better. Some characters like this have had articles in the past (Salkie for example) and so they should have some archived info on the wiki.
• Rather than put Garrus' father here I would say most of his information is covered under Garrus' profile, or should be, as most of what we know about him relates to his relationship with his son. I would also not recommend using characters with conjectural names, as while we may know something about them they are really more ancillary background characters. However others may disagree with me on this and if so I would say we refrain from using the colloquial names, instead coming up with a naming pattern (what is in the subtitles perhaps) but we can cross that bridge when we come to it.
• I would suggest that characters who send e-mails usually have their own articles, such as Bray, however Citadel's combat arena has led to minor e-mails. If the e-mails are already summarised in missions then just highlight the character, if not then maybe it should be included here.
• If we do need to divide the article it should be, IMO, alphabetically rather than by species. Or to match similar divides on the wiki perhaps it should be divided by source material - eg: Minor Characters in Mass Effect 3, Minor Characters in Mass Effect Foundation, etc. But again that bridge should be crossed when we get to it and not at this early stage.
• As to formatting I would suggest more clear dividing between the characters, with definite headers and footers. That would allow a subdivision of the Character heading for Trivia or other notes if necessary.

Thats all I have for now. Good work. Garhdo (talk) 09:37, July 4, 2014 (UTC)

I've always espoused that articles should exist independantly regardless of size unless one set of information complements and/or is dependant on another (partly because of seeing character lists fall apart conceptually in past wiki experience), but under the paradigm:

• Minor Characters is probably a better term.
• I'd include nameless characters provided that they're actual individuals (e.g. Garrus's father). If it reaches the stage where there's a lot of info on an otherwise nameless character, then either that info is clogging up another page (Garrus's), or is being stored in the ether (users' minds) until it can be applied).
• I'd sort by species. Some lists I could see being too short (e.g. minor characters of whatever novel/comic). In the case of just a few it should be "Minor Characters/Other," covering the sole named raloi and whatever else there is).
• All for sub-division, as in, character name should be a level 2 heading, with level 3 headings reserved for trivia. If a character is in a position that a sole level 2 heading cannot cover the whole bio, then I'd use that as the marker for a new character page.
• Make re-directs for all characters rather than use hash tag format within articles. If a character ends up getting their own article, it makes the transition much easier.--Hawki (talk) 12:56, July 4, 2014 (UTC)

A very large number of minor characters are encountered throughout the series. Determining which ones are worthy of inclusion wouldn't necessarily be any easier than determining whether others warrant articles. For a franchise and wiki of this size, controversy over what to cover is unavoidable since the line needs to be drawn somewhere -- increasing that perimeter arguably entails a larger number of cases to consider. With Garrus' father as an example, I don't think he's worthy of mention outside Garrus' bio.

To me the only readily apparent advantage is that lore information currently embedded in walkthrough-y mission articles would be accessible in a more in-universe form. For example, I assume Seryna would point to her personal character article section which in turn would link to the mission where she appears (among other things). This benefit notwithstanding, more or less duplicating what little there is to say about such characters is bound to introduce a good deal of redundancy.

Lastly, I think the quality of being a minor character is too weak a bond to justify creating ungainly agglomeration articles to begin with. In-universe cohesiveness and meaningful categorisation would be practically impossible, and monolithic pages can be inconvenient to both read and edit. The sheer number of characters to deal with would make for a large undertaking in collecting all relevant ones as well as adjusting existing articles. I'm not sure the pros outweigh the cons. Elseweyr ^{talk • stalk} 22:30:41, 2014-07-04 (UTC)

Thanks to everyone who has responded thus far. Rather than responding to everyone individually, I'll just do a catch-all response.

• I agree that there will still be controversy, but this will hopefully cut down on that by having a place to put information on minor characters. Even if we just limited it to named characters, it would go a long way in reducing controversy as a lot of previous controversy has surrounded named characters such as Lilith (multiple times), Salkie, Bray, Solik Vass, etc.

• Sub-division into multiple pages looks extremely likely. My sandbox right now has just eight characters and already is a respectable size. On top of that, five of those eight still need pictures (one already has a picture and the other two don't appear on-screen). I would definitely say we should go by letter (or group of letters as some letters like Q or X probably won't have that many listings) or by species with a listing for "other." I'm leaning towards by letter(s) as there are no doubt characters whose species is not known. I'm really reluctant to list by appearance as there are characters who appear/are mentioned in more than one media (e.g., Garrus' sister Solana, who is mentioned in ME2 and ME3).

• I agree that there needs to be a more discernible division between listings within the same article. I've added Level 2 headings to the sandbox, which I think looks pretty good. I also tried Level 3 headings instead, but it looked like crap. Adding the headings would help with editing, too, as the editor screen wouldn't have to load the entire, long article. The one thing I'm concerned with is making an insanely long table of contents like we see in the planets article. Is it possible to make a compact ToC or to collapse it?

TheUnknown285 (talk) 00:03, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

• The idea that amalgamation prevents article creation is contradictory. Wikis exist for the purpose of amalgamating material. Some material is undoubtedly easier to amalgamate (e.g. material from codex entries in ME's case) than others, but if an article needs amalgamation to exist...well, amalgamate. There's no excuse not to.

• In the event that a character's species is unknown, under the paradigm, I'd put it under "Other," with the caveat within the article that "this article lists characters of species not covered in other lists, or are otherwise unknown" (or words to that effect). Protheans and raloi could probably go in the same list come to think of it.

• The problem with letters IMO is that some articles would be far longer than others (compare A to Q for instance), though not non-existent. So that either warrants up to 26 letter lists, or merging of letters, only it's hard to predict where new characters will 'arrive.' For instance, say there's a list of individuals beginning with A, then B-D are covered, then E. Over time however, there's an abundance of characters under D within the article, to the extent it warrants its own list. If that happens, then one has a nightmare on their hands as ever "D character" has to have a redirect to the new D list. As such, I'd argue that species are the better lists to go on, because in theory there'd be a balance of characters for major species (e.g. Citadel species) and a distinct minority for others (e.g. raloi).--Hawki (talk) 07:59, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

I still would argue for listing characters by appearance, first appearance (or main appearance if the first time was a simple mention perhaps) if in multiple games or media, purely for the compatibility with the main character pages, where they are divided in such a manner because the lists grew so unwieldy. That way it would be possible to link the minor character page for that media within the main character page. Garhdo (talk) 10:08, July 5, 2014 (UTC)

Hi, first, I’m glad to see a new and huge project going proposed on this wiki. I will give my opinion on it :

• As everybody suggested, ”Minor Character” seems to be the best naming option for the page who should be a HUB redirecting to sub pages.
• I would sort the sub pages by material sources as it would be easier to realize and the most close to the way we do things on the wiki. We can aggregate some content (as mini games, novels or external content).
• I would also suggest to create a small policy to clarify some points:
  • When a minor character shouldn’t appear one the minor char article? (easier to say : "when not?" instead "when?")
  • When a character does deserves its own page?
• Do we create a redirect for every character?
• In general, I’m in favor of projects who add information on this “mass encyclopedia” even if Else raised some major cons ‘especially the redundancy). I can already say that I will help the realization of the project if it passes.

--DeldiRe (talk) 15:22, July 7, 2014 (UTC)

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now that i've ascertained user interest in the proposal and finally found free time, i'll have to address some issues and put my foot down on others. the basic idea of a minor characters page seems good at first glance, but the execution as currently presented definitely needs improvement if it is to get out of the drawing board. i'll also be amending this as necessary, as more info becomes available. this is a tl;dr post, fair warning.

there is no need for character boxes.

i'll have to veto this one because of multiple issues.

• as this is a minor characters page, everything that can be learned about them can be summed up in two or three sentences.
• page element imbalance. sticking pictures in is not a bad thing if you're aiming for normal discrete character pages, but here? content spillovers that can't be rectified by judicious use of {{clr}}. because the infobox itself is large even without pictures, you'll have a long right-hand area versus very short text body. longer text probably means the character should get its own page anyway.
  • also considering the fact that the fluid layout results in different looks across multiple viewer resolutions, the disparity is even more evident on bigger displays. as i said, aesthetically ugly.
• fuckups with autocategories. since the race category is autogenerated, potential unknowns and one-entry entities (e.g. raloi) will be generated through usage here. we only make categories if there are enough items to populate it, so having a raloi category with only the raloi page and the "background/minor/w/e characters" page is off the table.

pagelength concerns.

the entire franchise has loads and loads of characters. the proposal mockup only has a very select few, but once shit hits the fan elseweyr's concerns become valid. even with filters i'll suggest in the other tabs this page will grow unwieldly once every character's accounted for.

the entry on neaira is redundant (and borderline speculative) with aeian t'goni's narration of events.

one or two sentences about her plus a linkback to t'goni is enough.

it's dehkarr.

criteria for inclusion

there are fine filters a character has to go through between getting listed here, remaining a redirect to a page elsewhere on the wiki, and getting a separate character page. it's about the order of two paragraphs and overall significance. let's put things in perspective so as to help cut down redundancies while actually putting a home to minor characters.

• name-only mentions are out. the barest minimum should be name and story contribution (or known actions), one or two sentences. and a way to artfully declare which story they're from without breaking in-universe writing rules.
• special one-mention characters or characters already possessing verbatim entries elsewere (dr. jelize, grothan pazness, etc) will remain redirects to their section of the wiki. simply because of the fact that putting anything here is an exercise in redundancy: nothing else is known about them apart from the war assets entry (or something similar) they're mentioned. if you really must include them here, {{see}} and {{main}} templates are available, as well as a ~10-word (or so) short description.
• nameless characters present more problems than they're worth. also out. if they are worth mentioning, like Roth's Decoy, they would've already garnered a wiki page.
  • squadmates' family members are often unnamed and unless they have a character page they're better off being described in the squadmate's page. garrus' family are mentioned in tiny sprinklings throughout the trilogy and in homeworlds, but individually we still know little about them. same deal with other squaddies' families.
  • friendzone turian and other memetically noticeable but unnamed characters are out. i can see marauder shields creeping in with that. the eternity patrons and other such people are little more than background info suppliers for more appropriate articles.
  • war asset quest givers are usually labeled descriptively. if they don't have proper names, use the subtitle (or context)-given one. they can be included if only for the fact that they do have additional info upon quest completion that's isn't really necessary to include in the walkthrough articles.
• if a character has something like over 3 medium-sized paragraphs (not including picture), a separate page is probably warranted. significance is still debatable, but the mere fact that an item has a lot of unique info written about it is still something to consider.
• if two or more minor characters appear in only one scene, differentiate in terms of description and observed behavior as otherwise the info they present would be identical.
• comics and novels dramatis personae: people being more familiar with the game trilogy is no excuse to neglect them.

some background characters that would warrant an entry here

• sel (the salarian next to ish)
• fargut and moklan
• narl/kreete/gryll
• shisk
• shiagur (aside from background info in canrum, also listed as one of grunt's genetic forebears plus some dialogue mentions)
• kargesh and rukar
• darner vosque
• Jona Sederis (currently disambig. has enough info for a minor character section BUT has less than required info for full character page)
• sayn
• drs. o'loy and cayce (firewalker scientists)
• dr. chandana (the other loopy scientists aren't named)
  • "kate" (wife of one of the scientists - her memory is used to indicate the cerb team slowly going crazy. not really a serious suggestion given it's a common name)
• admiral dorian (foundation background turian, commander of impera garrison)
• polonis (zaeed's inside turian on the verrikan, hates the hierarchy, caught in the act by garkko. nothing else known)
• shelby (BAaT student brutalized by vyrnnus, foundation)
• captain chaleen (mordin's CO on modded genophage drop)
• tobestik and sgt bartus (turian flunkies of corinthus, priority: palaven)
• casino infiltration named mingle people with additional info
  • rolan quarn (has decent info from cerberus news network and casino infiltration)
  • jonah and aishwarya ashland (same as above)
• ME2's dossier/loyalty named characters (afterlife VIP people in samara's loyalty, civilians in thane dossier, ...)
• ruck
• hadley (leviathan)
• dr. garneau (real)
• forzan vas idenna
• rupe elkoss
• mel (the tomboy at purgatory)
• normandy background crew (i think mini character arcs can be constructed from the bits of dialogue they spout from time to time - perhaps even enough to warrant separate pages, which in that case scratch this)
• pizza delivery volus (besides his identity theft scene, also briefly mentioned in the archives as insisting for payment.)

some background characters that would NOT warrant an entry here

• shalei and bellicus (fictional in-universe, no info other than fleet n flotilla blurb)
• jona the orphan (we have no direct link that his mother died on the alarei while his father is dorn'hazt - could be two jonas, AND mother's wording not gender-specific)
• email/log-only mentions, unless there are multiple emails and a story can be stitched together (shepard's armax arena fanclub are out, firewalker doctors are in)
• talon five's pilot (no name given, 1/2 of an amusing situation if you brought james on thessia but that's about it. mentioned on UD anyway.)
• unnamed "tackle the varren" dad, urdnot camp (more of an info dump for krogan mindset)
• armax arena NPCs
• the multiplayer chars on shore leave (labeled only by class, unfortunately. trivia material for the other pages).
• car enthusiast and skeptic (bg info for the X3M page -- plus joker)
• vorcha hustlers
• hamlet's elcor actor
• patriarch's homeboy and the casino patrons he's speaking to
• the numerous clerks, guards, and other such NPCs

page formatting

the current arrangement by name is probably sufficient although given the potential number of characters available i'd have to inquire/stalk posts at community central if hundred-plus headers can be supported by mediawiki given the numerous restrictions in place. if not, a fallback in sorting characters only by first media mention/appearance could do in a pinch. level 2 header for ME/ME2/ME3/etc, semicolon-bold entries per character like how i've been doing it here.

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It seems that we are moving forward and I agree with almost every points raised by Temp which are :

• No infobox needed
• Some work is still needed for a proper layout
• His criteria for inclusion/exclusion are quite ok but we should formalized them to avoid endless discussion when the articles will be created
• Sorting by material (as we do for the rest of the wiki: one page for the whole foundation series for example)

If the project is going on, I can already say that I will (if needed) take care of my "specialties" : Mass Effect Galaxy, Infiltrator, External content (need to see if all/some of those characters deserve a mention, especially if already present in other material such as Bernard Plim...) --DeldiRe (talk) 12:25, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

Catch-all Response Version Two:

• Thanks again to everyone for their comments (and to Temp for the list of characters).

• The overwhelming consensus is that "Minor Characters" works best, so I'll change to that.

• I'm generally fine with removing the info boxes, but I do have concerns about how to deal with appearance info and voice actor while keeping it in-universe. Would we relegate that to the trivia?

• I suggest tabling discussion of when a character gets his or her own article as it's only tangentally related to this particular project and isn't even an issue right now.

• Temp, I'm unsure if you're saying that there shouldn't be pictures. Assuming you're not, I do need to note that I would need help with pictures as I don't have the capability (and certainly not the knowledge) to pull picture files from the game.

• I see the points raised about redundancy in cases such as Grothan Pazness. I'm fine with just listing such characters and then saying "see _____" provided that the information is easily accessible in the linked article, like if there is a sub-heading to link to. In other words, I would be against just linking to an article and saying "here, find it yourself."

• I also see the point about name-only mentions, but I don't think it should be that clear-cut. I would certainly want to amend what Temp said to include universe contributions. I would say that it's important to note military or political leaders, business people, artists, etc., even if all we know is "__ is the president of __."

• I absolutely intend this list(s) to include characters from outside the games, including the comics, books, movie, news reports, etc. The problem is my only exposure is to the games. So, Deldi, I would gladly accept your offer to help in this regard.

• Would we want to cannibalize existing entries, meaning the ones that exist as separate articles currently but would actually work better in the list? For example, the Salkie article, which only has one paragraph.

TheUnknown285 (talk) 21:29, July 8, 2014 (UTC)

I will also say that, in addition to Temp's list, I would certainly want to add Solana Vakarian, Primarch Fidorian, the Councillors (certainly the three original ones), Hilary Moreau, Huerta, the Normandy crewmember from New Canton (Hadley?), etc. TheUnknown285 (talk) 19:59, July 16, 2014 (UTC)

With all the discussion about ME4 and administration, this interesting project is a bit forgotten, I would suggest that the editors start again to give their input before the launch of a vote. I'm off for a few days at the end of this week and I hope that the project will move forward during my absence ;) --DeldiRe (talk) 13:40, July 28, 2014 (UTC)

Okay, everyone. I've finally been able to do some more work on this and have made some changes to the proposal. Unless someone has any additional comments regarding formatting, I think I've settled on that part. For the issue of how to split the article, for now, I would say we just kick the can down the road on that one and just deal with that when we get to that. I would also recommend punting on the issue of when to deal with questions of whether a character should be listed on the Minor Characters page or get their own article. We can either revisit that with a separate policy proposal or on a case-by-case basis with motions to split.

It might still be a good idea to deal with the topic of when does a character warrant addition on this page as opposed to not being listed at all. It's tough to come up with a clear criteria, but I think it's important to consider things such as story importance, background importance (e.g., political, military, or business leaders, artists, etc.), characters that are references to other Bioware games (e.g., Ruck, Sten), the amount of information we have, etc. A character wouldn't necessarily have to satisfy all of this but each one would certainly warrant a better and better rationale for inclusion. At this point, the only clear-cut criterion I can think of is that the character must be named. I think there are still some important (though unnamed) characters that may get lost in the shuffle there (like Garrus' dad) but I think this is certainly a start and would capture a lot of characters worth including.

Please give any feedback. I think I'm pretty close to putting this to a vote. TheUnknown285 (talk) 21:28, September 22, 2014 (UTC)

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we don't use thumbnails (image for kredak). again, i would insist on one-source/one-shot characters like ari'ka and pazness to be booted out or reduced to one-liners. all of them have handy links available - if there isn't any, a codefix with something like <span id="itemidentifier"></span> can do in a pinch for usage in redirects. also, ordering scheme. alphabetizing by surname (or given name) is well and good, but people better bear in mind how to handle krogan names and other similar items (last name before first name) if and when they come up.

other than these... i think i can live with the formatting as it stands. HOWEVER, given the lack of initiative lately i would insist that you fill up the page with at least a majority of ingame minor characters that are unambiguously allowable here so we can see something close to the final product. this is nearly presentable design-wise, but as an article it's nowhere near enough. example is how i did the drinks page: almost everything researched and included at the outset. along with the list of characters i gave above, i would be willing to identify additional examples so as to avoid cries of wasted hard work down the line.

besides my tl;dr first post above, let me clarify certain things.

• i'm not saying no pictures, i'm saying no infoboxes and thumbnails. picture display formatting is the same as what we've been doing for the majority of articles: caption on mouseover only.
• if the only mention of a character is something like pazness/jelize/a'rika, then they do not need expansion here as their entire story is already listed (almost always verbatim) elsewhere. at most, a mandatory one-line description and link is the only content of their individual sections.

== Grothan Pazness ==
 [[War Assets/Alien#Governor Grothan Pazness|Grothan Pazness]] is the batarian governor of Camala.
 

• importance in-universe is irrelevant. what matters is the amount of content that can be said about them, and the number of sources namedropping them. if they are as important as you say, they are bound to have a couple of sentences in the fluff and automatically warrant at least an inclusion here. again, give concrete examples so i can determine who's who and what's to do with them.
  • president huerta has a bunch of stuff about him, perhaps even enough to warrant a separate article.
  • fedorian qualifies.
  • hilary moreau CERTAINLY qualifies.
  • solana vakarian qualifies. named, has info on SB dossier and ME3.
    • i did say we do know next to nothing about garrus' parents. important in garrus' backstory no doubt, but the very fact we don't have canonical names for them complicates matters. if you really must include them, perhaps under no-nonsense descriptors like "Garrus Vakarian's father"/"Garrus Vakarian's mother".
    • Tell you what, i think a [[Vakarian family]] article can be made for them. research for another time or if you're willing to pursue this.
  • ruck and sten i got no problems to begin with, they fit the bill of being there solely for shoutouts.
  • everything known about the councilors is already at Citadel Council#Councilors. no need to recap.
• minor characters with their own articles are holdovers from when ME/ME2 were brand spanking new and people were unsure of everyone's overall significance down the line. for now, they remain that way and should be approached on a case-by-case basis.

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T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 08:07, September 23, 2014 (UTC)

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as of this writing, i see that the writeup on victory seems to be more than enough to warrant a separate article already. the VI did have a fairly significant job in the DLC, about on par with the other prothean VIs, and there's about a couple more sentences that can be said about it. (stray observations: vigil is an energy blob, vendetta is basic holocode with a prothean outline, victory is outright a prothean model overlayed with holo lines a la illusive man and petrovsky when projected by holo drones) T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 04:45, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, as I was writing that entry, I did redact some material for the sake of brevity (e.g., more on the relationship between it and Javik, more comparisons between it and its fellow Prothean VIs (like that Victory's avatar seems to be mobile while the other two rest on a pedestal), and a play-by-play rundown if its actions. If you want to, you can go ahead and remove it from the sandbox and create a new article. If you don't get a chance to, I'll see if I can do it tomorrow as I'm about to go to bed. TheUnknown285 (talk) 05:16, October 22, 2014 (UTC)

Does anyone know Unknown's current status or the status of this project? Garhdo (talk) 02:32, March 19, 2015 (UTC)

No news from him. --DeldiRe (talk) 12:53, March 20, 2015 (UTC)

I'm still here. TheUnknown285 (talk) 00:30, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

Good to hear it buddy - whats the status of all this? Need help with anything? Garhdo (talk) 16:15, March 22, 2015 (UTC)

It's still in the works. It's just things like work, school, ADHD, and massive family issues have gotten in the way. I do have enough that I am considering putting it to a vote, and we can add to it when the opportunity presents itself. I definitely will need help with some things. I can't do any non-video game characters as I have not read the books or comics. I also can't extract pictures on my own. TheUnknown285 (talk) 18:33, March 23, 2015 (UTC)