This page consists of Mass Effect cut dialogues relating to the missions on Virmire or their aftermath. They are presented in an approximate chronological order.
Annotation: "|" means the line would play according to squadmates present, listed in priority order if the source is accurate.
Tabber annotations:
- (Par): Paragon answer, top-right of the dialogue wheel
- (Neu): Neutral answer, center-right of the dialogue wheel
- (Ren): Renegade answer, bottom-right of the dialogue wheel
- (Inv): Investigate answer, center-left of the dialogue wheel
- (P Inv): Contextual Paragon or Neutral answer to an Investigate, top-left of the dialogue wheel
- (R Inv): Contextual Renegade or Neutral answer to an Investigate, bottom-left of the dialogue wheel
- (Cha): Charm answer, top-left of the dialogue wheel
- (Int): Intimidate answer, bottom-left of the dialogue wheel
jug20_trigger (missing nodes)[]
Note: unused nodes for deleted voicelines still contain the first 30 characters of that voiceline. The time length of the voiceline gives an approximation of the remaining amount of characters.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\ice20\jug20_trigger_D.upk, Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_JUG20_01_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters optionally present:
| Liara T'Soni: We must find a way to disable their artillery.
| Garrus Vakarian: There must be a way to shut that gun down.
| Urdnot Wrex: That's a big gun. Hope we can find the off button.
| Tali'Zorah: There must be a way to disable that gun.
| Kaidan Alenko: There's got to be a way to shut that thing down.
|| Ashley Williams: Perhaps there is a weakness we[10 to 20 characters remaining]
|| Kaidan Alenko: Gotta find a weak spot we can[25 to 35 characters remaining]
|| Tali'Zorah: There may be a weak spot we ca[15 to 25 characters remaining]
|| Urdnot Wrex: There has to be a soft spot wh[30 to 40 characters remaining]
|| Garrus Vakarian: Got to be a soft spot where we[15 to 25 characters remaining]
cha00_humanfemale_ashley (1)[]
Note: originally, crewmates could be apparently talked to on Virmire in the salarian camp and would hold the same long conversations as on the Normandy. Even if these versions of the dialogues cannot be heard in the game, they should be technically functional. The transcriptions below are accurate. The rest of the dialogues have been omitted as they would play out the same as on the Normandy. Also note that several dialogue wheel options leading to the same Shepard voiceline is not an error, it's a common element throughout the first Mass Effect game.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\NOR20\cha00_humanfemale_ashley_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_NOR10_11ASH_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters present:
(In this variant of the dialogue, only the "Renegade" answer is different; the rest has been omitted)
(...)
Shepard: Do you have a few minutes to talk, one-on-one?
Ashley Williams: Sure. I was just watching some mail from home.
Sarah Williams recording: Oh, before I go. We saw Kaidan in a news vid about the Normandy. He's cute. Later, sis.
Ashley Williams: Let's pretend this never happened.
Shepard: The damage is done, Williams.
Ashley Williams: Oh, shoot me now. One of my sisters. That's Sarah. The youngest.
(...)
Shepard: Are you interested in the lieutenant, Chief?
(...)
Shepard: We're in the middle of enemy territory, Chief. Don't you have better things to do than view mail from home?
Ashley Williams: Uh, I should be inspecting my firearm. Sorry about that. It won't happen again.
(End of conversation)
Ashley Williams: Uh, I should be inspecting my firearm. It won't happen again. And, uh, I have no interest in the lieutenant.
(...)
Shepard: Your sister, I assume?
Ashley Williams: Until I get home and kill her. That's Sarah. The youngest.
(...)
(The following dialogue has a number of changes at the start and at the end if it were to happen on Virmire, and thus the middle part has been omitted here)
Ashley Williams: Surprised to see you here, sir. Thought you'd be chatting up what's-her-name. T'Soni.
Shepard: Liara? Why would you think that?
Ashley Williams: Scuttlebutt says you've got a bit of thing for her. I could understand why. The crew's off-limits, with the regs against fraternization. And at least she looks like a woman.
Shepard: You think I'm interested in Liara because she's the only one I'm allowed to date?
Ashley Williams: So you are interested in her. 'Course, it could just be politics. Alien diplomat's daughter? Us under orders to make nice with the bug-eyed monsters? So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: You think I'm interested in Liara because she's the only one I'm allowed to date?
Ashley Williams: So you are interested in her. 'Course, it could just be politics. Alien diplomat's daughter? Us under orders to make nice with the bug-eyed monsters? So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: I don't see how my personal life is any of your business, Chief.
Ashley Williams: It's not. I just thought we were getting along pretty well. Sir.
Shepard: We are. I'd like that to continue.
Ashley Williams: Hmm. All right. But I'm the jealous type, Commander. Just so you know. So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: Better than a commanding officer should with one of his crew.
Ashley Williams: I read you, sir. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Shepard: I think I gave you the wrong impression.
Ashley Williams: No worries, sir. Probably for the best anyway. The regs frown on fraternization. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Shepard: Liara? Why would you think that?
Ashley Williams: Scuttlebutt says you've got a bit of thing for her. I could understand why. The crew's off-limits, with the regs against fraternization. And at least she looks like a woman.
Shepard: You think I'm interested in Liara because she's the only one I'm allowed to date?
Ashley Williams: So you are interested in her. 'Course, it could just be politics. Alien diplomat's daughter? Us under orders to make nice with the bug-eyed monsters? So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: You think I'm interested in Liara because she's the only one I'm allowed to date?
Ashley Williams: So you are interested in her. 'Course, it could just be politics. Alien diplomat's daughter? Us under orders to make nice with the bug-eyed monsters? So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: I don't see how my personal life is any of your business, Chief.
Ashley Williams: It's not. I just thought we were getting along pretty well. Sir.
Shepard: We are. I'd like that to continue.
Ashley Williams: Hmm. All right. But I'm the jealous type, Commander. Just so you know. So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: Better than a commanding officer should with one of his crew.
Ashley Williams: I read you, sir. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Shepard: I think I gave you the wrong impression.
Ashley Williams: No worries, sir. Probably for the best anyway. The regs frown on fraternization. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Shepard: I don't see how my personal life is any of your business, Chief.
Ashley Williams: It's not. I just thought we were getting along pretty well. Sir.
Shepard: We are. I'd like that to continue.
Ashley Williams: Hmm. All right. But I'm the jealous type, Commander. Just so you know. So what's up, Shepard? Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: Better than a commanding officer should with one of his crew.
Ashley Williams: I read you, sir. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Shepard: I think I gave you the wrong impression.
Ashley Williams: No worries, sir. Probably for the best anyway. The regs frown on fraternization. I won't keep you any more. Have fun. Commander.
(End of conversation)
Ashley Williams: Hey, skipper. Figured you'd be busy with tactical briefings and whatnot. Don't know what I think about us attacking today, of all days. Kind of an ill omen.
Shepard: You mean on the anniversary of the First Contact War?
Ashley Williams: The end of it, yeah. My family always marks it. I'm the only Williams here. I guess you'd be the only other one interested in it.
Shepard: I don't understand. What's today?
Ashley Williams: It's Armistice Day. When the First Contact War ended. My family always marks it. I'm the only Williams here. I guess you'd be the only other one interested in it.
Shepard: Good thing I have my rabbit's foot. It should counteract all the negative waves.
Ashley Williams: Just don't wave it around, skipper. Wrex might be hungry. It's Armistice Day. When the First Contact War ended. My family always marks it. I'm the only Williams here. I guess you'd be the only other one interested in it.
(...)
Ashley Williams: So now you know. Gonna kick me off the ship, skipper?
Shepard: You're a valuable part of my crew, Williams. If I want an opinion "from the head," I go to Alenko. When I want one "from the heart," I go to you.
Ashley Williams: I also play a mean game of pool. I'm sure Kirrahe wants to brief you. I should get out of your hair.
(...)
Shepard: You're part of the team, Williams. I don't care what your grandfather did or didn't do.
Ashley Williams: Not to get all cheesy, but you're the first C.O. who's ever said that to me. Thanks, skipper. I'm sure Kirrahe wants to brief you. I should get out of your hair.
(...)
Shepard: You're tough and decisive. I value those qualities.
Ashley Williams: Just consider me a fire-and-forget missile. I'm sure Kirrahe wants to brief you. I should get out of your hair.
(...)
cha00_humanmale_kaidan[]
Note: originally, crewmates could be apparently talked to on Virmire in the salarian camp and would hold the same long conversations as on the Normandy. Even if these versions of the dialogues cannot be heard in the game, they should be technically functional. The transcriptions below are accurate. The rest of the dialogues have been omitted as they would play out the same as on the Normandy.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\NOR10\cha00_humanmale_kaidan_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_STA60_01SCENIC_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters present:
Kaidan Alenko: Do you have some time to talk now, Commander?
Shepard: Of course. Pull up a tree stump.
Kaidan Alenko: I've been thinking about the Feros mission. How the colony ended up failing. You had to make some tough calls to get us this far. And it looks like there's going to be more. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Kaidan Alenko: I've been thinking about the Noveria mission. About what we did to the rachni. You had to make some tough calls to get us this far. And it looks like there's going to be more. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Kaidan Alenko: We've played it pretty close to the book so far. But we're a long way from backup. We've got some tough calls to make. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Shepard: We're stuck in this swamp for now, Lieutenant. What's your take?
Kaidan Alenko: I've been thinking about the Feros mission. How the colony ended up failing. You had to make some tough calls to get us this far. And it looks like there's going to be more. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Kaidan Alenko: I've been thinking about the Noveria mission. About what we did to the rachni. You had to make some tough calls to get us this far. And it looks like there's going to be more. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Kaidan Alenko: We've played it pretty close to the book so far. But we're a long way from backup. We've got some tough calls to make. I'm just saying... try to leave yourself a way out. I've seen what cutting corners can do to someone. And I'd hate to have that happen to you, Shepard. Commander.
(...)
Shepard: Lieutenant, I'm sure you have duties to attend to.
Kaidan Alenko: Yes, ma'am. Just had some static on my comm. Got some signals wrong. Won't happen again.
(End of conversation)
Kaidan Alenko: I won't keep you, then. Commander.
(End of conversation)
(...)
Kaidan Alenko: It's just my experience that once someone lets something slide, it tends to pick up speed. You get my meaning?
Shepard: Talk to me, Kaidan. You've got a little black raincloud sitting over your head.
Kaidan Alenko: Oh, I'm sure it's just the humidity. You know the records about the biotic training out on Jump Zero? They're all classified. Because the Alliance made mistakes. After first contact, Conatix was set up to track element zero exposures and develop implants for humans. Once we had an embassy on the Citadel, Conatix could bring in "experts" instead of taking it slow.
Shepard: You're talking about a particular example, aren't you?
Kaidan Alenko: You know the records about the biotic training out on Jump Zero? They're all classified. Because the Alliance made mistakes. After first contact, Conatix was set up to track element zero exposures and develop implants for humans. Once we had an embassy on the Citadel, Conatix could bring in "experts" instead of taking it slow.
Shepard: Alenko, if you have one failure, it's an inability to speak directly.
Kaidan Alenko: Sorry. I'm not looking to dump any baggage, Shepard. You know the records about the biotic training out on Jump Zero? They're all classified. Because the Alliance made mistakes. After first contact, Conatix was set up to track element zero exposures and develop implants for humans. Once we had an embassy on the Citadel, Conatix could bring in "experts" instead of taking it slow."
(...)
jug20_sal_comstore (missing nodes)[]
Note: unused nodes for deleted voicelines still contain the first 30 characters of that voiceline. The time length of the voiceline gives an approximation of the remaining amount of characters.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\ice20\jug20_sal_comstore_D.upk, Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_JUG20_08_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters present:
Shepard: Show me your supplies. I'll ma[10 to 20 characters remaining]
Rentola: The only "good use" would be a[50 to 70 characters remaining]
Shepard: I'll take out that base.
Rentola: We always seem to be forced to [60 to 90 characters remaining]
Shepard: Can I do anything to help your[5 to 10 characters remaining]
Rentola: Do your job. At least make it[30 to 40 characters remaining]
jug70_asa_indoctrinat[]
Note: the following is the retranscription of a single unused voiceline.
File source: Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\Content\Packages\ISACT\jug70_asa_indoctrinat.isb
Character present:
- Unnamed guard
Guard: We're compromised! The alarms have failed!
jug70_kro_docdroyas[]
Note: while this dialogue never plays, it should be technically functional in the original release of Mass Effect. The transcription below is accurate. Also note that several dialogue wheel options leading to the same Shepard voiceline is not an error, it's a common element throughout the first Mass Effect game.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\JUG70\jug70_kro_docdroyas_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\Content\Packages\ISACT\jug70_kro_docdroyas.isb
Characters always present:
Characters optionally present:
Droyas: What is going on here? Where are the guards? Where is Saren?
Urdnot Wrex: Saren will receive his proper reward when we find him.
Droyas: What is this? One of my own fighting against the glorious rebirth of our kind?
Shepard: You're breeding an army of slaves! Tools to be manipulated. What glory is there in that?
Droyas: Are you blind? We have a cure for the genophage! Saren has led us through the darkness to a new dawn! You will not destroy the work we have started!
Shepard: You're breeding an army of slaves! Tools to be manipulated. What glory is there in that?
Droyas: Are you blind? We have a cure for the genophage! Saren has led us through the darkness to a new dawn! You will not destroy the work we have started!
Shepard: Take him down.
Droyas: You will not destroy the work we have started!
Droyas: What is going on here? Where are the guards? Where is Saren?
| Ashley Williams: Saren's not here. You get to deal with us.
| Liara T'Soni: Saren is not here. You get to deal with us.
| Garrus Vakarian: Saren's not here. You get to deal with us.
| Tali'Zorah: Saren's not here. You get to deal with us.
Droyas: No! Stay back! This is important work! This is the glorious salvation of my species!
Shepard: You're breeding an army of slaves! Tools to be manipulated. What glory is there in that?
Droyas: Are you blind? We have a cure for the genophage! Saren has led us through the darkness to a new dawn! You will not destroy the work we have started!
Shepard: You're breeding an army of slaves! Tools to be manipulated. What glory is there in that?
Droyas: Are you blind? We have a cure for the genophage! Saren has led us through the darkness to a new dawn! You will not destroy the work we have started!
Shepard: Take him down.
Droyas: You will not destroy the work we have started!
(End of conversation)
jug80_ash[]
Note: while these voicelines never play, they should be technically functional in the original release of Mass Effect. The transcription below is accurate.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\JUG80\jug80_ash_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\Content\Packages\ISACT\jug80_ash.isb
Character present:
Ashley Williams: Go, Commander. I'll be fine here.
Ashley Williams: You've got to hurry, LT. I can't hold out forever.
Ashley Williams: Don't worry about me. Just go.
Ashley Williams: You've got to get to the AA tower before it's too late.
Ashley Williams: What are you waiting for? Go!
jug80_kaidan[]
Note: while these voicelines never play, they should be technically functional in the original release of Mass Effect. The transcription below is accurate.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\JUG80\jug80_kaidan_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\Content\Packages\ISACT\jug80_kaidan.isb
Character present:
Kaidan Alenko: Go, Commander. I'll be fine here.
Kaidan Alenko: Hurry! Williams won't be able to hold out forever.
Kaidan Alenko: Don't worry about me. Just go.
Kaidan Alenko: You've got to get to the AA tower before it's too late.
Kaidan Alenko: There's no time. Go get Ash!
jug80_saren[]
Note: while these dialogues never play, they should be technically functional in the original release of Mass Effect. The transcription below is accurate. Do note that these relate to the cut ability to save both Kaidan and Ashley.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\JUG80\jug80_saren_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_JUG80_13_CIN_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters present:
(Before setting the bomb)
Kaidan Alenko: (radio) Commander, you need to set the nuke and get out. We can't hold... Left flank, left flank! Suppressing fire! Suppress--
Ashley Williams: (radio) Commander, set that nuke and get out! We can't hold them.... Damn it! Suppressing fire! Cover your flank! Cover your--
Kaidan Alenko: (radio) Commander, you need to move fast. We can't hold these things off much longer. Watch the corners! Suppressing fire!
Ashley Williams: (radio) You need to move fast, Commander. We can't hold them off here much longer. Watch the corners! Suppressing fire!
(Right after setting the bomb)
Saren Arterius: Damn you, human! This facility was more than reinforcement. It was inoculation! So be it. You may have taken the day. But this is not over. Goodbye, Shepard. You have ensured we will meet again.
Ashley Williams: (radio) This thing's ticking, Commander. We don't have a lot of time.
Shepard: No one gets left behind. We're going after the lieutenant.
Saren Arterius: Damn you, human! This facility was more than reinforcement. It was inoculation! So be it. You may have taken the day. But this is not over. Goodbye, Shepard. You have ensured we will meet again.
Kaidan Alenko: (radio) This thing's ticking, Commander. We don't have a lot of time.
Shepard: No one gets left behind. We're going after Williams.
Kaidan Alenko: (radio) There's no more time, Commander. The nuke is set. Get out while you can.
Saren Arterius: Damn you, human! This facility was more than reinforcement. It was inoculation! So be it. You may have taken the day. But this is not over. Goodbye, Shepard. You have ensured we will meet again.
Ashley Williams: (radio) We're all clear on this end, but that nuke's set to go. We don't have much time.
Shepard: No one gets left behind. We're going after the lieutenant.
Ashley Williams: (radio) It's done, Shepard. The nuke is set. Get out while you can. Please.
Saren Arterius: Damn you, human! This facility was more than reinforcement. It was inoculation! So be it. You may have taken the day. But this is not over. Goodbye, Shepard. You have ensured we will meet again.
Kaidan Alenko: (radio) We're all clear on this end, but that nuke's set to go. We don't have much time.
Shepard: No one gets left behind. We're going after Williams.
(End of conversation)
nor20_virmire_done[]
Note: while this dialogue never plays, it should be technically functional if the right conditions (normally unobtainable) are met. The transcription below is accurate. Do note that these relate to the cut ability to save both Kaidan and Ashley.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\NOR20\nor20_virmire_done_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_NOR10_04A_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters always present:
Characters optionally present:
Ashley Williams: Thanks, Commander. Things got pretty hot down there. You saved my life.
Kaidan Alenko: Both our lives. I don't know how you did it, Commander. The Alliance'll come up with a whole new medal for what you pulled off here.
Ashley Williams: If they don't court-martial you. You endangered the entire mission. Why didn't you just leave one of us behind?
Shepard: Say what you want, Williams. If you were calling the shots, you'd have done the same. Alenko would've, too.
Kaidan Alenko: We might have tried, Commander. But I don't think either one of us could have pulled this off.
Shepard: No one gets left behind. Not while I'm in charge.
Kaidan Alenko: Anyone else, I'd say they got lucky.
Shepard: The mission was never in danger. I had it all under control.
Kaidan Alenko: Anyone else, I'd say they got lucky.
Ashley Williams: Kaidan's right. Nobody else could make a stunt like that work. Put anyone else in charge and someone gets left behind. Or the mission fails.
| Liara T'Soni: Commander? Excuse me for interrupting. But I have an idea. I think the beacon you found in Saren's base was similar to the one you found on Eden Prime.
| Urdnot Wrex: But how are we going to find him? Or the Conduit?
| Garrus Vakarian: But how are we going to find him? Or the Conduit?
| Tali'Zorah: But how are we going to find him? Or the Conduit?
(The rest of the dialogue proceeds as normal)
nor20_sal_captainkirrahe[]
Note: while this dialogue never plays, it should be technically functional if the right conditions (normally unobtainable) are met. The transcription below is accurate. Do note that these relate to the cut ability to save both Kaidan and Ashley.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\NOR20\nor20_sal_captainkirrahe_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_NOR10_11_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters always present:
Kirrahe: It was an honor working with you, Commander Shepard. Despite the losses, our mission was a success. It is remarkable we managed to escape with as many people as we did. It speaks to the quality of your leadership and your officers.
Shepard: Things would have been a lot tougher if your men hadn't been with us, Captain.
Shepard: Under exceptional circumstances, we are each called upon to do exceptional things.
Shepard: I get the job done. No matter what.
Kirrahe: Rest assured, Commander, my men and I will not forget what you have accomplished here. We will leave your ship as soon as you reach your next destination. Perhaps we will have the opportunity to work together again some day.
(End of conversation)
cha00_humanfemale_ashley (2)[]
Note: while this dialogue never plays, it should be technically functional if the right conditions (normally unobtainable) are met. The transcription below is accurate. Do note that these relate to the cut ability to save both Kaidan and Ashley.
File sources: Mass Effect\BioGame\CookedPC\Packages\Dialog\NOR20\cha00_humanfemale_ashley_D.upk; Mass Effect Legendary Edition\Game\ME1\BioGame\CookedPCConsole\BIOA_NOR10_11ASH_DSG_LOC_INT.pcc
Characters present:
Ashley Williams: I hope we can get the Council to give us a hand, skipper. I'd hate to think we nuked a perfectly nice world for nothing.
Shepard: They're right, you know. We don't have much proof. My "visions" and the word of a rebellious Spectre.
Shepard: Once they know the truth about Sovereign, they'll get involved.
Shepard: They've dismissed all my concerns out of hand. "Visions." May as well have told them I divined it from entrails.
(The rest of the dialogue proceeds as normal)