Talk: Combat (Mass Effect 3)

Difficulty Levels

The Difficulty Levels I observed in the Demo at least are Narrative, Casual, Normal, Hardcore, and Insanity. Veteran was omitted. IIRC "Narrative" is now "Casual," "Casual" is now "Normal," "Normal" is now "Veteran," and "Hardcore"/"Insanity" are simply more difficult. --Burkenation 21:32, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

I was using the ME2 Combat article as a guide for this one. I'm about to go through the demo and enter in info about the difficulties, so this will be corrected. -- Commdor (Talk) 21:49, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Oh, Okay :) I was just trying to be helpful, didn't mean to sound condescending. --Burkenation 21:55, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Oh no, I didn't think you were condescending. You thought there was a problem with the article and rightfully pointed it out. Unless you can read minds across time and space, you couldn't have known if anyone was planning to fix it. :) -- Commdor (Talk) 22:05, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Well I am an internationally renowed Psychic. Unless I'm not. --Burkenation 22:15, February 13, 2012 (UTC)

Encumberment

So will we be able to chose NOT to bring weapons into missions so we do not get encumbered and suffer the hit to our recharge time? Say like just bring a pistol and an assault riffle and that's all.98.203.220.27 11:36, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

You can bring a minimum of one weapon. So you can bring in just a pistol if you want to maximise recharge times.

In future discussion/questions like this should go in a blog post/forum. Talk pages are for discussing the upkeep of the articles themselves.

Cheers.JakePT 11:39, February 27, 2012 (UTC)

Multiplayer Character Heavy Melee

Should the Heavy Melee attacks for the krogan and asari classes be mentioned in the Heavy Melee section? Or do those two belong to ME3 multiplayer? GodzillaMaster 02:04, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Those are specific to multiplayer. Lancer1289 02:26, February 29, 2012 (UTC)

Information

Who reset the Armor, Shields and Barriers part? I spent so much time correcting all the misinformation! --85.229.186.53 18:01, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

No what you put in was in some cases, blatantly incorrect information, among other things.

Armor is best reduced by slow firing weapons like Snipers, Heavy Pistols, and Shotguns. Assault Rifles are not as effective and they are most definitely worse than Pistols and Shotguns.

Shields and barriers are best countered by fast firing weapons like SMGs and Assault Rifles, not Shotguns. With Barriers, Energy Drain isn't effective, and Overload is only effective once fully upgraded, not before then. This was removed, so that is misleading to say the least.

You also called Shotguns a fast-firing weapon, which is so blatantly incorrect that it isn't funny.

So there were numerous inaccuracies that have been recorrected as they were written that way for a reason. What you put in was either incorrect, or wasn't even close to accurate. Lancer1289 18:09, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

I thought I said that shotguns fired many projectiles quickly, which they do. If you have played the series, you would know that the shotguns fire multiple projectiles per shot. They don't fire single, powerful rounds like you implied. The damage multipliers of individual weapons can be found in the wiki and confirm what I have said. Assault rifles do on average an equal amount of damage to barriers/shields and armor. Shotguns do more damage to shields and barriers than to armor, with a few exceptions. Look it up if you don't believe me. The description of Overload says "effective against barriers, shields and synthetics." The description of Energy Drain says something similar. If you don't believe me, play the demo. I'm going to fix your vandalism and save a copy locally. If you do it again, I'll report you to whoever runs this wiki. --Outis1 18:30, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

My vandalism? You have a lot of nerve saying that considering what you said was blatantly incorrect on several circumstances.

The fact remains however that you are incorrect on several circumstances. Shotguns while launching several small projectiles, are not considered fast firing weapons like SMGs or ARs. Shotguns have a small clip, and can't fire that fast when put next to anything else already mentioned.

Pistols and Shotguns are much more effective against armor than ARs, SMGs or any other weapon.

If you look at the descriptions here for overload, then you will see that it is only effective against barriers once it is upgraded. Energy Drain is also only effective once upgraded. So on that point you are incorrect again.

So just to summarize, there were numerous problems with your edits that are countered by in game playing. Hence why the article was written the way it was.

And FYI, I am one of the admins here. So I'm fixing incorrect information, while you kept putting incorrect information in. Lancer1289 18:40, March 2, 2012 (UTC)

Download the demo and read the descriptions for Overload and Energy Drain please. Could you also tell me where you got the damage multipliers for the weapons of Mass Effect 3?

Come on, it's not so hard to check. It only takes an hour, tops. --Outis1 15:40, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

And what is there to check. The information in the article has already been verified by multiple users. Yours was completely incorrect. Lancer1289 15:41, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Should I send you a screenshot of the power descriptions? --Outis1 15:43, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

Why? I've already seen it, and it is incorrect. The powers work how they work and we don't allow misinformation. Overload and Energy Drain are effective against shields and less effective against barriers. They are tech powers and not biotic ones. Lancer1289 15:49, March 4, 2012 (UTC)

might i just say that mr. lancer is usually right about this stuff, and he is in this case as well. you are, assumingly, attempting to be helpful, but your attempts are proving... well wrong. so, please stop. --This text has been approved by Murfitizer 00:36, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Heavy Melee damage

I was watching an episode of Bioware Pulse, and they mentioned that the Heavy Melees are customized for each class. We know this already, but the video also mentioned, for the Engineer's Heavy Melee, "this is gonna help the Engineer take down heavily armored opponents" (3:55-3:59, I believe). Presumably this means each Heavy Melee has different damage values; has anyone noticed this?

Video is here. Stormkeeper 14:40, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

This needs to have devconfirmation before it can go into an article. Lancer1289 19:21, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

I took notice of that and the fact that fire eats away at armor, hence the fire Heavy melee attack for the engineer, and the Infilitrator has an electronic attack, perhaps it has an emp effect on shields?

In depth testing

Almost 10 years later, I've looked around and decided to get to the bottom of this myself and do in-depth, sandbox testing of the single-player classes. Tests were performed using both normal and heavy melees from all 6 classes in the Armax Arena (normal difficulty) but additional tests were done on Insanity in missions (namely Priority: Earth) to make sure there wasn't anything unexpected across difficulty settings (there wasn't). All test Shepards were Level 60, wearing base N7 armor and absolutely ZERO squad points invested in any powers (did a reset of powers), and no weapon melee mods so there were no melee damage boosts from any source. I tested damage against all 4 types of protections and many different enemies across the different factions, including Collectors. Did a few tests with a level 30 character to ensure level didn't cause anything unexpected (it didn't, melee damage doesn't vary with level).

Here is a list of my findings, which turned up a few surpises; I won't detail everything I saw, only the things I found out that will add to the knowledge on this page:

• Base melee damage (totally unmodified) is 150 for ALL classes. This damage is the same versus all types of enemies and protection types; even does the same damage versus armor.
• Soldier, Infiltrator, Engineer, and Sentinel - Heavy melees all do the same damage: 600 unmodified damage to all protection types except armor; damage to armor was 450 (25% damage penalty)
  • Infiltrator Heavy Melee causes a very slightly longer stagger effect on unprotected enemies (electrical shock) which can be significant as it allows a follow up attack before the affected enemy can reset itself to attack
  • Engineer causes a burn/panic that can work on certain enemy foot soldiers even through protection
• Vanguard - Standard heavy melee (delivered from standstill) deals 500 base damage to all types except vs. armor to which it deals 375 (25% damage penalty) and has NO AREA OF EFFECT, hits only one enemy, can knock it down if unprotected; this attack is delivered noticeably faster than the non-biotic classes and the Sentinel, fast enough to beat the melee windups of most enemy foot soldiers
  • Has a second heavy melee, delivered on the run, leaps forward and punches the ground. This deals the same damage, but now has an AREA OF EFFECT that delivers the same damage to all affected enemies, and can knock down ALL affected enemies that are also unprotected, but the area is much smaller than say, Nova (you need to really be getting crowded); does NOT penetrate cover
• Adept - here's the interesting one; the Adept heavy melee deals only 250 damage to health, but 375 damage to ALL PROTECTION (shields, barriers, and armor - a +50% BONUS); still weaker damage than the others, but also deals AREA DAMAGE to ALL affected targets, same damage to everything hit.
  • As noted on the ME3 Adept class strategy page, the Adept heavy melee has a much larger force component than the others, and it will send one, but ONLY ONE unprotected enemy hit by the melee flying; other enemies in the blast zone will take damage and be staggered, but will not be blasted off their feet.
  • Heavy melee delivered faster than average, comparable to Vanguard's standing heavy melee

Ale89515 (talk) 09:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Heavy Melees of Tech Classes do tech damage (SP)

I've recently discovered that the heavy melees (in theme with the classes) of the Infiltrator, Engineer, and Sentinel are in fact, tech based. I've observed that heavy melees of these classes deal what looks like double damage to enemies under the effects of Sabotage with the Tech Vulnerability Evolution. I've done some cross-testing to control for a couple variables:

• double-damage occurs regardless of the source of the Sabotage (could be the player, could be Tali)
• tried it with Sabotage without Tech Vulnerability - no double damage occurred
• tried it with the other classes' heavy melees (Soldier, Adept, Vanguard) + Tali Sabotage - no double damage
• tested on Single player only, Insanity, PC, all DLC, OT (not LE)
• unclear whether other sources of "bonus Tech damage" also affect heavy melee damage of Infiltrator/Engineer/Sentinel (i.e. Defense Matrix Rank 5 evolution, EDI's passive Rank 6 Squad Bonus, etc.); no rigorous testing but for now it looks like that's a 'no'.
• cursory internet searching turned up no evidence someone else knew about this (didn't look that hard)

Anyone else care to confirm? It's pretty hard to chalk it up to something else, but I'd be interested to know if this happens in Legendary Edition, or Multiplayer. Ale89515 (talk) 07:24, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

From looking at the Sabotage page there actually is a line in there about tech-based heavy melee attacks receiving a 50% bonus to damage from Tech Vulnerability, with a citation leading to the old Bioware Forums. Looking at that link, it appears the ONLY discussion/confirmation was about multiplayer classes, no mention of single-player classes there really. Also my testing definitely shows the damage bonus for single-player seems to be 100%, not 50%. From the damage numbers I've seen, an unbuffed heavy melee against a Cannibal is doing about 900-1000 ish damage, but buffed by Sabotage, it's doing close to fatal damage, almost 1800-2000. Ale89515 (talk) 07:48, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

Armor

Removed the bit about armor being found on krogans. Its irrelevant to ME3, you don't fight any krogans in ME3. --70.62.200.250 17:14, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Heavy Melee Images.

Could someone please find a detailed picture of the heavy melee's for each class/race The description is very detailed but an image would help more. Thankyou TheRealTerminal 23:47, March 15, 2012 (UTC)

Health

The section entitled "Health, Armor..." etc doesn't actually say anything about Health...

Probably becuase no one has bothered to write it yet. Lancer1289 17:09, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Vanguard Heavy Melee

I just noticed that Vanguard seems to have another heavy melee animation in SP, which is shown when such movement is performed while sprinting. It is similar to Nova but apparently with way lesser damage and radius. It does naturally not use shields either. Do you think this should be mentioned here? Fercen 18:40, March 24, 2012 (UTC)

Too single-player centric?

I was editing some portions of the article, and while I trimmed out some multiplayer-specific information, I wonder if we should be doing that. Would it be wiser to fork mechanics into separate pages for SP-only and MP-only information, or at least include both pieces in this page? At current, players may be mislead by the information, attempting to extend it to Multiplayer where it is not correct, or may find the information simply lacking. For example, I'm tempted to insert core weight capacities. It is easily demonstrated what Shepard's core capacity is as it is in the Coalesced.bin (biogame -> sfxgame -> sfxcharacterclass -> startingencumbrancecapacity) and can be edited. However, adding that the core weight capacity is 75% would result in a lot of "nuh-uh!" from MP players, where that is simply not true.

Combat details are essentially identical for both parts, with only a few details to fix. The problem with fixing them, of course, is that the article can grow quite unwieldy when having to add SP or MP headers for bits of information. I do however, feel that if the page is going to have a title that suggests that it is about combat in Mass Effect 3, it should include combat in Mass Effect 3, not just combat in the ME3 single player campaign. Given Lancer's comments, I thought we might do with a discussion of the issue before I up and start expanding the article, though. Gamemako 19:22, March 31, 2012 (UTC)

Cover usage

Given that cover and its applications have been massively expanded since the previous incarnation, shouldn't it be worth mentioning as part of a section under combat? Phylarion 10:04, May 21, 2012 (UTC)

Shotguns vs Armour

Is it true that in ME3 shotguns are now more effective against armour than shields? It seems counter-intuitive for those who have played ME2, as well as those who know that real-life shotguns are not generally high in penetrative power. Is there a source for this information? Also, if this is all true, should I just assume the Eviscerator, Wraith and Claymore are better at armour-piercing than other shotguns? 92.12.211.198 19:37, June 7, 2012 (UTC)

Por Favor? 92.12.211.198 17:05, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

I just tested it - since there is a 'bonus damage against armour mod' (shotgun shredder attachment) then in a way yes - however, i haven't seen any real difference whilst playing with them, nor have i looked in the game data...sorry. SanjayBeast (talk) 18:21, June 8, 2012 (UTC)

Melee maximums

Since I wrote the outline guide for melee in ME2, and added in the maximum attainable damage bonuses for melee in that game (to the husk article I believe) I was curious if I could add in the same here and add in a small melee section to the ME2 combat page? Early estimates before bed have the soldier able to reach 285% bonus melee damage using only vanilla game abilities and armor (might be more if any allies have team melee boosting abilities). I haven't seen a page listing the individual piece stats for the dlc armor providing some melee damage as well. I will also be testing if melee retains it's consistent damage ability from ME2 (whereas it deals the same damage versus shields, armor and barriers as it does against health). Mictlantecuhtli 04:50, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Would you also test out the maximum for MP? As of rebellion, I think it now goes to the vorcha soldier/sentinel, with 3 stacks of melee damage boosting bloodlust. Just for you to consider...SanjayBeast (talk) 05:05, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a gold membership to live, I also don't have built in wireless in my model of 360 so I don't have it hooked up to the net. I took it to a friends house just to get the extended ending dlc, the mounted combat for Skyrim, etc. I realize now that the first sentence of my original post could be misleading, I wrote this guide and not the outline for melee in ME2 as seen on Combat (Mass Effect 2), though I am in the process of rewriting that one as well. Mictlantecuhtli 14:29, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I'll be looking through the pages a bit later on for implants, intel stuff, etc if any of it exists for melee attacks. Right now the numbers only reflect armor and skill bonuses. Also I still haven't tested in "Power Damage" effects increase the damage bonus of Adrenaline Rush. I also need to check if it increases damage from tech armor, tactical cloak, etc unless someone can verify that it does increase the damage bonus of those abilities. Mictlantecuhtli 17:03, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Overhaul... -ish

I've spent a lot of time in the last few weeks doing online searches and such, and scouring the BioWare official forums (b/c my sister stole my xBox, because they think I am doing nothing and it's b/c I play too much xBox, and well, I love ME3) trying to look for official info, and such to help my gameplay. I believe I've found several, potentially 3-6 different links with legitimacy (at least 2 by a BioWare Developer, Eric Fagnan) which give great insight into gameplay mechanics. I wish to somewhat overhaul this combat page, with references, but I know one shouldn't just do massive changes as such on a whim without asking first. I mainly aim to add valid info, add specifics on certain info (like the Armor Gate DR reduction value and mechanics, and the Shield Gate DR mechanics info) and shorten a lot of info to say everything exactly as it is with brevity (in a somewhat more excel-like format, where the raw info is there with as little clutter as possible, without long wordy sentences that give more info than necessary - of course enough info would remain to be as clear as possible, too). I'd ask for some help with reference links, and one reference, might I add, (the only one), currently links to a BW Official forum post started by someone, in which Fagnan posts info which is the point of the reference and is used as evidence.

One Other thing: ME3 is newly unique from the previous 2 in the series due to having multiplayer, and this page seems to vaguely kind of not fully cover both clearly. I was wondering if in certain sections maybe a 2-sided table might be a valid option? like when it comes to armor DR, the different reduction values are 15, 30 and 50, but it's 15 on bronze, 30 on silver, and 50 on gold in MP, whereas it's 15 on normal, 30 on hardcore, and 50 on insanity in SP (I do not know what it is on Casual or narrative, sorry! the forums are mainly on MP, but do state the SP equivalents of the MP difficulties). Maybe a table that was 3 collumns top row said "SP Difficulty" (or something shorter?) 2nd collumn top row said "MP Difficulty" and 3rd row said "Armor Damage Reduction" and going down the columns it said each difficulty from the easiest to the hardest, where MP doesn't line up it'd say N/A or something, and in column 3 it would say the DR value. Or would one advise simply lengthening the height of the page by keeping SP and MP info all separate? Of note: I didn't notice, (I skimmed some parts, and read others) a differentiation of gameplay mechanics specified between MP and SP around the Power Wheel/Powers section, which is somewhat important due to the significant difference. In SP you can outright pause the game and get the power wheel, in MP the gameplay is far more sped up, and you cannot use the Wheel to easily view all powers and descriptions and plan, it's in-the-moment decisions only. Hopefully some admins all post on this, I'll like to hear from the 5 that I know of, if possible. (Lancer1289, SpartHawg948, Teugene, Commdor, JakePT)

Thanks for reading. Blaze55555 09:37, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

I Also wish to add that I don't really want to change the format, that much if at all, but simply do some "fat-trimming" on the actual info in each section. Take out lengthy sentences and replace with short, to-the-point sentences with all verifyable, relevant info important to those trying to find such info. Blaze55555 09:40, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

It would be a good idea to create a Sandbox page with your ideas in action. It's easier to see look at a table than hear it described, for example. If you're not sure how to start a Sandbox, go to the URL bar and delete everything after /wiki/ and type something like User:Blaze55555/Sandbox/Combat (Mass Effect 3) and then you can create the page. Trandra 11:47, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Creating a sandbox then linking it here would be the best option in this case because as previously stated, it is easier to see than to describe. Well usually anyway. Lancer1289 15:21, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Ohthanks for the suggestions, will do... this might take a while, though DX the page is long (Hence why I think it needs shortening elaboration). I'll start right now I s'pose. Blaze55555 22:06, June 29, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, so I've started, and here's a link to the page so you can follow the progress. You can also look through the history I believe and read my summary to see what I was doing in each. I've primarily started with a restructuring. The current flow I find... stagnant... it starts with Interface info, goes to offensive abilities (melee and powers, which is a very small section) then comes back to defenses and then goes into difficulty and options, then back to offensive abilities with weapons but starts with weapon weight which better elaborates on the new weapon system better than the weapons section does... I see it as a huge mess. This is my new advised order. It starts with overall game backroom mechanics, the Interface and such, then goes to options and controls, then goes to difficulties, then goes to what you're killing (enemy defenses) then to what you kill with (starting with the age-old most common videogame combat mechanic first, weapons, followed by franchise-unique mechanics, and then the least-used combat mechanic, melee. I'm contemplating adding a bit to the end on player defenses, elaborating on how the new health system works, and shields/barriers, though I think this would be much shorter than Enemy Defenses due to a decent amount of info being at the top. Other combat-relevant topics: New cover and maneuvering mechanics/controls, healing, and piercing? Any input would be greatly appreciated! thanks for reading Blaze55555 00:18, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Ssssshhhhhoot... forgot to add the link DX

http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/User:Blaze55555/Sandbox/Combat_(Mass_Effect_3)

>.> There you go... Blaze55555 00:19, June 30, 2012 (UTC)

Cryo Blast

"The best tech power against armor is Incinerate as fire is one of armor's greatest weaknesses and Cryo Blast reduces the damage protection armor provides."

This has been removed twice, but the first time there was no reason given, and the second time, the reason given was "Cryo Blast only weakens armoured plates, so that was correct." If you read the sentence, that is what it is saying--it reduces the damage protection, which is the mechanic by which it weakens armor. I didn't want to start an edit war by undo-ing once again, so please discuss. Trandra 23:07, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Adept heavy melee

we all know how it looks like but did anybody have the luck (bad luck) as I did to see adept's unique heavy melee, sprinting + heavy melee -> results in unique attack I've only seen it once and I have it confirmed from my friend it happened once for him too, but when I loaded different save it won't work anymore, even when I come back to the original save, when I seen it for the first time does anybody know, if it's bugged or something, nobody mentiones it anywhere but I know it exist...

Jancz00 (talk) 07:12, November 14, 2012 (UTC)

Armour vs. Armour-plating Confusion

Do please bear with me here.

The mechanic of armour and armour-plating has confused me ever since the game began, and believe I'm not alone. This thread, however, makes things clearer and I think an overhaul of this article and a few power articles may be in order, but I would like to check that I have this right first.

The yellow (armour) bar reduces damage of every bullet by a fixed amount, and there are several means of reducing this amount through powers, ammunition etc. Am I correct in saying THIS is what is meant when numerous power stats say things along the lines of "armor weakening" and "reduces effectiveness of armor by..."? What I find confusing is that ammo powers that say this, e.g. AP and Warp Ammo, also have an Armor Damage bonus value. I would assume now, that the armor damage is a bonus to the overall bullet damage against armor and the "armor weakening" is a second bonus to the same defence, reducing the amount of damage armor removes from every bullet; however, there is NO bonus in damage done when penetrating armour-plating. When AP ammo and piercing mods talk of the distance the weapon can penetrate, THIS is a bonus against armour-plating (as well as cover).

First of all, I ask: is the above summary correct?

If so, the list of weapons and powers under armor-plating needs a bit of an overhaul: the first bullet point is fine, referring to innate penetration power of weapons, the second should only include AP Ammo, the third is also fine, the fourth should be removed completely as all those powers' effects are actually to increase damage done against armor bars. Several of these power pages would also need altering.

Please let me know if I have got this figured out; I have been confused by this mechanic for so long. >_< Tali's no.1 fan (talk) 17:30, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

The armor-damage bonus value is a bonus additive when used against armor. So if it has a 25% armor-damage bonus, it does 100% against health, 125% against armor.

The rest seems correct. Trandra (talk) 17:46, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, that's what I meant. So a change to the plating section of the article is in order, then. I shall get on it now. Tali's no.1 fan (talk) 17:51, March 12, 2013 (UTC)

Vanguard Sprinting Melee/Some Heavy Melee Stuff

So, from what I understand, the Vanguard is the only class with a sprinting melee, aye? Well, I noticed two things about it recently. First, that it has a very, very small AoE, but large enough that you can send three Husks flying with it if they're massed close enough together. Second, I realized that it strikes downward. Why? Obviously, this is a very tactically inefficient angle, since it not only makes the melee attack very difficult to aim at standing opponents, but doesn't seem to do any extra damage either. Then I realized something. The Vanguard has a heavy melee that sends enemies flying (I think the effect also scales with Melee Damage/Force/Power Damage, since I've seen it grow significantly more powerful through the course of the game) - and also knocks them down. Which means, the Vanguard's secondary melee attack is probably meant to follow up launched opponents who were just struck with a Heavy Melee. I've tried it myself with immense success - however, because the Vanguard is unique in this regard, no other class has any mention of Heavy Melee "combos", since they simply don't have them. Would it be alright if I pitched in with this tactic down below, as a bit of aid to other Vanguards who might read it? It seems like very useful information, but this page obviously doesn't get a lot of editor traffic, so I'd like to ask permission before I break character and offend someone hilariously above my station.

Second, I've observed that some of the other classes' Heavy Melees seemingly have attributes of Shock, Incediary or Biotic damage. Do we have any data on damage multipliers for them? I noticed it on a few of the other Talk sections, and it occurs to me that it would be very useful to know if one is powerful against Armor, another against Shields, et cetera. CaptainThunderdude (talk) 00:29, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

class-specific tip. belongs here: Vanguard Guide (Mass Effect 3)#Overview. blatant gushing and subjective observations preferably minimized. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 08:50, February 6, 2014 (UTC)

Enemy Shield Gate Minimum Threshold

This is something I've observed for awhile in Single Player (PC, Insanity), but enemy shield gates appear to only function above a certain % of their maximum value. That is to say, reducing an enemy's shield/barrier below a certain threshold effectively "breaks" the protection of the shield gate, even though the target still has bars of shielding remaining. I haven't done super in-depth testing, but from eyeballing it, the threshold for when the shield-gate "breaks" looks like around 50% strength. I've used this knowledge when playing as Infiltrator with the Black Widow to get one-shot kills on shielded enemies by first hitting them with a squadmate power like Tali's Energy Drain (or Shepard's own Sabotage) on a fast recharge to first reduce (but not completely eliminate) the target's shields and nullify the gate before shooting.

Bottom line: the target still has multiple bars of shielding, and they are still getting one-shotted, proving the gate is no longer in effect.

I won't add this to the page however as I think more corroboration is needed to precisely lock down how this is working and if it works in multiplayer as well which I won't really be able to test myself for a couple of reasons. Ale89515 (talk) 16:32, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Upon further experimentation/investigation, I've discovered that what I'm observing seems to be related specifically to shots taken with Disruptor Ammo applied. In other words, Disruptor Ammo specifically appears to have some ability to ignore shield gates for enemies below a certain threshold of shields/barriers. Whether this is working as intended or a bug, I'm not certain, but looking at the Disruptor Ammo Talk page or notes no other information is available. Ale89515 (talk) 00:35, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Quickly replying here, although I haven't attempted to dig out any evidence. I believe it's a mechanic that applies to any ammo effects, whether through Ammo Powers in single-player or consumables in multiplayer. I'm reaching into the depths of my memory here, but when you have a "damaging" ammo effect applied, it splits the damage done by each bullet into two parts: ammo damage and raw weapon damage. This split is what lets the shot bypass the shield gate: Provided the ammo portion is large enough to completely deplete the shields and trigger the gate, the remaining raw damage can then damage health.

The discussion used to be in the BioWare forums of old, but there could be something in the relevant Talk pages here (haven't checked). —Elseweyr ^{talk • stalk} May 20, 2021, 17:16:18 (UTC)

Interesting. That would also explain why Cryo Ammo wasn't causing this as it has no damage component of its own; I didn't test with Incendiary Ammo as I was playing Infiltrator but it would be harder to see the same effect as it does less damage to shields than Disruptor. I always assume I'm NOT the first person to discover a mechanic, lol, but yeah I've heard a lot of the old "knowledge" was lost as it was located on the Bioware Forums which is a shame. Was this effect deemed a "bug" or "working as intended?" Was there official comment on it? I don't have LE, but if the same behavior exists in ME3 LE then it should be documented here in some fashion. Thanks! Ale89515 (talk) 17:33, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Such information has been reposted pretty much everywhere. This thread is literally the first result returned by Google for "Mass Effect shield gate" query. As for official statements, there surely was one on The Old Bioware Forum! I can't find the original post, though. I hope this quote would suffice. -- Wiki Kaczor (talk) 19:56, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

You found me out, I didn't really do any digging, got a few other things going on - but thanks. I think that's enough documentation/support to put something in the Notes sections at least, if not on this page proper. Ale89515 (talk) 20:15, 20 May 2021 (UTC)

Squadmates have no shield/health gates

Even though it's sort of "said by omission" on the page (and outside sources) currently, I think it may be worth mentioning that NPC squadmates don't seem to benefit from shield or health gates. I did some searching around, but found no confirmation of this fact, however, so I did some more in-depth testing using PC Console to observe ("profile combat [squadmate]") their health/shields while taking heavy damage. I had squadmates walk in front of an Atlas Mech on Insanity, and could clearly see that shots from the cannons were able to penetrate their shields to significantly damage their health as well in a single shot. I did observe something a bit odd though: when this occurred, their health WOULD get damaged, but if they weren't killed outright, their health would very quickly "rebound" back to maximum if not damaged again in a short period (like a second or so). So while NPC squadmates don't get the same shield/health gate "wall" against damage as Shepard/players/enemies, they get a somewhat weaker, "consolation prize" version of it, so the net result is they ARE more vulnerable to being one-shot (why Liara falls over immediately if she's hit by a Nemesis) they can still recover quickly if they aren't immediately killed. I'd like to see if someone else knows anything or can confirm this though, and I may do further testing. Neo89515 (talk) 17:48, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

Sync Kills

I'd like to include a subsection on sync kills under Melee the briefly explains how they work and lists which enemies have them and in which mode (SP, MP). Interestingly, I did a little bit of research and couldn't find any evidence for the origin of the term "sync kill"; sync kills appear in several games like Dawn of War series for example but I personally have no idea where the term came from and couldn't find any source. Also, from testing with Phantoms it appears that enemies perform sync kills in all single-player difficulties except Narrative. Neo89515 (talk) 21:07, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

I don't think sync kill is a standard enough term to use, so I'd be fine with dropping even the one mention we already have in the page. "Instant kill" is more descriptive. I seem to recall the in-game combat tips mentioning this mechanic, but I could be wrong... Elseweyr (talk • stalk) 21:25, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

They are referred to as "sync kills" officialy for Dawn of War I believe, it's sort of an evolving term of art in gaming circles now like "hitscan", but I tend to agree with you. I think in-game tips will say something along the lines of "can instantly kill you" yeah; was thinking of exploring tutorials to see if any mentions but holy crap I have wasted too much time here today *runs away* Neo89515 (talk) 21:33, 7 July 2021 (UTC)

Maybe calling them "enemy grabs" works, since they are in a way the enemy version of them. Neo89515 (talk) 16:37, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Since it's in no way similar to the over-cover grab otherwise, it would still have to be clarified as an attack that instantly kills you. I would avoid inventing any intermediate terms and just go for the simple and descriptive "instant kill". Elseweyr (talk • stalk) 15:14, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

Something I thought I'd add: if you observe in console, the actions of many of the enemy instant-kill and grab animations are actually labeled with "Sync" in the title of the action. For example the Banshee Impale is called "CA_AI_SyncMelee" by the game. This may be where the term originated. I'm not advocating for adopting that as official term, just observing. Neo89515 (talk) 00:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

It's an informal game industry term from the synchronization of animations (of killer and victim) that need to occur, but I don't know where it originated. You'll also commonly hear "finishing move" in the same context, but we can guess from the console commands that somebody on the BioWare dev team came from the "sync kill" world. It's a common enough term that even if we go with some other term (e.g. "instant kill" even though plenty of them aren't precisely "instant") then one or more of the others might deserve a "sometimes also called X or Y" section. Personally I find "sync" kill more precise/accurate than "instant" kill, since the animations get synced up and the result is a guaranteed kill. Just my 2 cents. Cattlesquat (talk) 00:42, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I was wondering if you'd have some insight on this. Cool! Neo89515 (talk) 00:51, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

I certainly don't speak with any special industry "canon" power, it's always entirely informal unless I source something. I suppose in that vein it is worth mentioning that the term was used in BioWare balance patch notes for ME3 multiplayer balance updates, e.g. for the Atlas (Gold) Increased chance to sync kill players from 60% to 80%. That still shades toward a "dev term" rather than "official game term", but there it is. Cattlesquat (talk) 00:57, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

^dev terms used in patch notes are good enough. better than twisting ourselves into knots inventing terms for expressing a context-appropriate concept, why not just use something they use. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 01:56, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

If others are in favor, we can certainly use "sync kill", mostly since it's been widely adopted at least in the multiplayer online community. It does require explanation of what actually happens, certain death being key.

However, I'd like to stress in the strongest possible terms that looking to data-mined internal labels for terminology guidance is not a road we want to go down. In developer environments, these things have to be called something well before anyone even thinks of what they will be called in the final, player-facing product. They can connect to anything from well-known industry concepts (which you don't want to be seen as copying) to plain inside jokes. As such, they should not be treated any differently than other cut content, nor generally be lent any particular credence when describing the game from the player perspective. Elseweyr (talk • stalk) 19:38, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Even if we can't settle on a standard term, I believe I can still write a section describing the mechanics on this page using "general" language, and as Cattle suggests, simply note terms that have been used to refer to the instant-kill abilities. Also I checked the "in-game" tips from the Game Menu and only the tip for the Brute mentions that they can "instantly kill you." Neo89515 (talk) 20:15, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

Regarding the Patch Notes, were the patch notes for ME3 not released to the playerbase? They had to be "data mined?" Most of modern games I currently play very much DO release Patch Notes for "public consumption"; heck some of them advertise on the fan subreddits for their games. IF the Patch Notes Cattle was referencing were released for general eyes, I 100% support adopting "sync kill" as the preferred term of art on the Wiki. Even if they weren't, I'm still about 75% in favor. Neo89515 (talk) 04:21, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

They used to get posted on BSN (Bioware Social Network) and kept in "sticky threads" as official information. That got shut down but various archives persist, e.g. http://social.bioware.com/page/me3-patches, https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/995452-mass-effect-3/62708663, https://bsn.boards.net/thread/72/multiplayer-balance-changes?page=1. I was on my laptop last night when I found that earlier one but anyway you get the general idea. Cattlesquat (talk) 05:18, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Heavy Melee Grants Damage Resistance

Focused testing so far: all 6 SP classes (OT, PC, Insanity/Normal difficulty)

Testing procedure: generally sitting on enemy grenades or taking enemy Nemesis/Phantom shots

From talking to some people in MP and also some of the player notes on the MP class sections, I've learned recently that the heavy melee animation in ME3 grants a significant amount of damage resistance to the player. This seems to be somewhat widespread knowledge in MP circles but again, it was news to me, especially since I rarely used heavy melee attacks in SP because melee was relatively weak there.

I wasn't able to discover if specific numbers on the damage resistance percentage are stored in some repository of knowledge somewhere, for either game mode. If someone has a source, please let me know.

However, I've now done enough basic testing in SP to conclude with certainty that ALL SIX SINGLE-PLAYER CLASSES benefit from damage reduction during their heavy melee animations (generally seems confined to the "windup" portion where Shepard is yelling, not the attack release/thrust).

So, while I don't really know for sure if the DR varies across the various SP/MP classes (it may), I know from simple play experience in MP (very easy to tell you get DR while heavy melee-ing there) and now from testing in SP that the animation does provide DR of some magnitude. Neo89515 (talk) 04:41, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

3-Stage Melee Attacks broken in Legendary Edition

When BioWare was in the process of unifying various settings for Legendary Edition, they broke the 3-Stage Melee attack. It is impossible to perform chained melee attacks due to this oversight unless using a mod on PC.

Confirmation by Brenon Holmes, currently a producer at BioWare and before that a technical designer and software engineer, on the ME3Tweaks Discord while discussing the issue with Mgamerz, the Modding Toolset and Manager lead and author of the original ME3's controller mods.

Start of conversation about 3-Stage Melee not working on the ME3Tweaks Discord

Mod by Mgamerz that fixes the 3-Stage Melee

Appreciate you sharing this. Neo89515 (talk) 03:50, 8 March 2022 (UTC)

And also confirming, just took the time to test in LE, and yeah, no more combo melees. Neo89515 (talk) 04:30, 11 March 2022 (UTC)

Headshots

Should I add a subsection that outlines the headshot mechanics? Or is it already somewhere? Burningcherry97 (talk) 16:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)