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: I actually tend to agree with this, think a better one could be found. I have no ideas yet myself, but I would guess a quote from Shepard's speech right when the Normandy launches for the first time with Shepard in command (beginning the mission to stop Saren) would be good. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 01:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 
: I actually tend to agree with this, think a better one could be found. I have no ideas yet myself, but I would guess a quote from Shepard's speech right when the Normandy launches for the first time with Shepard in command (beginning the mission to stop Saren) would be good. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 01:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
:However, I will say that knowing Mass Effect's dialogue system, you'd be hard-pressed to find a lot of Shepard quotes that aren't tilted towards either Renegade or Paragon. Just a reminder that under the guidelines for headquotes, a line has to be chosen from the FIRST game a character appears in, so in this case ME1. Right now the current quote expresses Shepard's desire to stop Sovereign, and stopping the Reapers is central to the character. I personally have never taken the Renegade ending for Shepard in ME1, but it DOES have a pretty emblematic quote: ''"The Reapers are still out there. And I'm going to find a way to stop them."'' The Paragon ending line is: ''"The Reaper fleet is still coming. Hundreds of ships, maybe thousands. And I'm going to find some way to stop them."'' Since all variations of this line are basically the same, I'd favor picking one if we really want to change the current Headquote. However, I do have to say that [[User:LuizLSNeto|LuizLSNeto]] is incorrect in asserting this is a Renegade, optional line - it is neither, it is actually just the line Shepard says to Sovereign on Virmire at the conclusion of the conversation. While I am not opposed to changing the HQ if another can be found that's better, I am also fine with leaving it if one can't be found. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 02:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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:However, I will say that knowing Mass Effect's dialogue system, you'd be hard-pressed to find a lot of Shepard quotes that aren't tilted towards either Renegade or Paragon. <u>Just a reminder that under the guidelines for headquotes, the lead quote has to be chosen from the FIRST game a character appears in, so in this case ME1</u>. Right now the current quote expresses Shepard's desire to stop Sovereign, and stopping the Reapers is central to the character. I personally have never taken the Renegade ending for Shepard in ME1, but it DOES have a pretty emblematic quote: ''"The Reapers are still out there. And I'm going to find a way to stop them."'' The Paragon ending line is: ''"The Reaper fleet is still coming. Hundreds of ships, maybe thousands. And I'm going to find some way to stop them."'' Since all variations of this line are basically the same, I'd favor picking one if we really want to change the current Headquote. However, I do have to say that [[User:LuizLSNeto|LuizLSNeto]] is incorrect in asserting the current quote is a Renegade, optional line&mdash;it is neither, it is actually just the line Shepard says to Sovereign on Virmire at the conclusion of the conversation (yes, it's very similar to the Renegade option when talking to the dying Destroyer on Rannoch though). While I am not opposed to changing the HQ if another can be found that's better, I am also fine with leaving it if one can't be found. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 02:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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:: Perhaps the way around this dilemma is to have two lead quotes, one the Paragon and one the Renegade, thus composing Shepard's dual nature. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 02:59, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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::: No, I don't think that would be kosher or really necessary. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 03:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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:::: Kosher is what we define it to be. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 04:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
   
 
== 'Originally a woman' trivia? ==
 
== 'Originally a woman' trivia? ==
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== Shepard's height ==
 
== Shepard's height ==
 
I think I found some worthy trivia. According to figures formerly sold in the Bioware Store, BroShep stands slightly over 6'0 tall, while FemShep stands 5'3 tall. [http://www.cmdstore.com/mass-effect-3-series-12-inch-commander-shepard.html Links] [https://www.amazon.com/Kotobukiya-Mass-Effect-Commander-Bishoujo/dp/B009F3KWBK to products] (they're not sold in the store anymore, but figures from the lines still are- like the Liara and Tali Bishoujo statues). They're both standing pretty straight in the statues/figures in question, so posture shouldn't be a problem in reference to their heights here.[[Special:Contributions/68.107.67.37|68.107.67.37]] 02:21, December 19, 2016 (UTC)
 
I think I found some worthy trivia. According to figures formerly sold in the Bioware Store, BroShep stands slightly over 6'0 tall, while FemShep stands 5'3 tall. [http://www.cmdstore.com/mass-effect-3-series-12-inch-commander-shepard.html Links] [https://www.amazon.com/Kotobukiya-Mass-Effect-Commander-Bishoujo/dp/B009F3KWBK to products] (they're not sold in the store anymore, but figures from the lines still are- like the Liara and Tali Bishoujo statues). They're both standing pretty straight in the statues/figures in question, so posture shouldn't be a problem in reference to their heights here.[[Special:Contributions/68.107.67.37|68.107.67.37]] 02:21, December 19, 2016 (UTC)
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== ME2 Headquote ==
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Now that the subject's of headquotes has come up, I realized I really don't like the ME2 choice, as it is not only optional dialogue, it's not particularly representative of Shepard's character even if it was humorous and memorable. I have come up with two alternatives that I propose adopting:
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'''1. "If this is a war I'm going to need an army. Or a really good team."''' (said to Illusive Man post Freedom's Progress) - very emblematic of Shepard's goal and the ME2 story generally
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'''2. "Cerberus and I want the same thing: to save our colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them."''' (said on Horizon to Virmire survivor, Paragon option) - emphasizes Shepard's fundamental conflict during ME2, working with Cerberus while simultaneously trying to maintain a separate identity. '''
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(neither are verified verbatim but close enough)
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[[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 04:10, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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2 is verbatim. 1 is '''If this a war, I'll need an army. Or a really good team.'''. that said i favor neither, current one is fine as is. no need for further melodramatics, current ME1 and ME3 quotes got that covered. [[User:Temporaryeditor78|T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤]] ([[User talk:Temporaryeditor78|talk]]) 04:30, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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: Well if you're opposed it's obviously not going anywhere but I don't pretend to fathom the reasoning, or what could possibly be interpreted as "melodramatic" about either choice I proposed. ME2 is about building a team... and about Shepard working with Cerberus. That's not melodrama. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 04:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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:: There isn't anything melodramatic about what you wrote. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 04:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
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== Italicization of ME game titles ==
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I know from experience generally that we don't italicize the names of the ME games anywhere on the Wiki (even in Trivia sections), though for the life of me I can't actually find this rule SPELLED OUT anywhere in the MoS. If it's not there, and we still follow this convention, then I think it needs to be in writing somewhere. Just leaving a note here in light of a recent edit. [[User:Ale89515|Ale89515]] ([[User talk:Ale89515|talk]]) 15:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)
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== Rank ==
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In researching a recent edit controversy -- there are some references back in the archives (e.g. [[Talk:Commander Shepard/Archive1#Rank]]) that an initial codex entry explicitly states Shepard's initial rank to be Lt. Commander. ''However'', fascinatingly, in LE I can find no such reference. Can someone, first of all, provide some kind of OT screenshot that this codex entry actually ''exists'' in OT? And/or any such journal entry? I was unable to find them.
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To be clear, the Systems Alliance Military Ranks (which ''are'' documented in easy-to-find codex entries) define the two relevant ranks as "Lieutenant Commander" and then "Staff Commander". In other words there is no "plain" Commander rank in the Systems Alliance, and we are left to assume e.g. that using the simplified just-Commander form is just a common shorthand. Obviously we aren't talking about "Staff Commander Shepard" either.
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However, this presently leaves me with: if we can no longer establish any explicit reference in lore to the ''Lieutenant Commander'' rank for Shepard (for example even if it existed in OT but was purged from LE) then there's no justification for the "Lieutenant" being mentioned in this article--nor, obviously, for using Staff Commander. We'd need to just put "Commander"-like-Bioware-does and be left guessing which of the official subranks Shepard held and when. If we can actually establish an explicit ''Lieutenant'' Commander confirmation for OT only then that would be a suitable trivia entry.
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UPDATE: I have found a journal entry in LE -- at very beginning of ME1, the very first time you get control of Shepard, if you check the entry in your journal it begins "You are Lieutenant Commander Shepard..." Neo was also able to find the codex entry in OT (Secondary => Aliens: Extinct Races => Prothean Beacon) -- I ''cannot'' find that codex entry in LE, even in a finished-the-game character. So it (remains) canon that Shepard begins the game as Lt. Commander, and there is of course no further reference to promotion to higher ranks.
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HOWEVER, I am going to suggest that as the lead sentence of the article, "Lieutenant Commander Shepard is the main protagonist of Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3, whose gender, appearance, skills and pre-service history are all customizable and have impacts on the story." the reference is inappropriate, because (A) it implies that Shepard maintains specifically the Lt. Commander rank throughout the series when we do not actually know (one way or the other) that is the case, and (B) it causes unnecessary confusion in this issue rearing its head every few years in that Shepard is referred to 99.9% of times as "Commander Shepard". So I'm going to propose that we excise the Lieutenant from that sentence, and make a trivia or reference citation noting that we know Shepard starts as Lt. Commander.
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So here I am inviting discussion! [[User:Cattlesquat|Cattlesquat]] ([[User talk:Cattlesquat|talk]]) 18:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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:My experience is the same as yours, I have not seen Lieutenant Commander in either OE or LE playthroughs. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 18:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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::I concur with the suggestion to remove the word 'Lieutenant'. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 19:33, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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https://imgur.com/a/XGcc5l5
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this isn't even deep-diving in the lore, it's just codex knowledge people are too lazy to read, much less look up. [[User:Temporaryeditor78|T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤]] ([[User talk:Temporaryeditor78|talk]]) 19:53, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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:Again we've established there is early journal reference to Lieutenant Commander. That doesn't necessarily mean the current lead sentence of the article is appropriate. [[User:Cattlesquat|Cattlesquat]] ([[User talk:Cattlesquat|talk]]) 19:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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:it actually is appropriate. in-universe, [[Codex/Humanity_and_the_Systems_Alliance#Systems_Alliance:_Military_Ranks|there is no "commander" per se in the alliance structure, only lt. and staff]]. formally speaking, it's lt. commander shepard. rear admiral mikhailovich. colloquially, you got commander shepard and admiral mikhailovich.
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:you've said before the topic is broached every few years, then read again the numerous sections already said about the matter in the archives. the same arguments there still hold up now, and i don't want a rehash because some people are too lazy.
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:sparthawg, a military guy, has already given his take on the matter. and so did others from the previous regime. [[User:Temporaryeditor78|T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤]] ([[User talk:Temporaryeditor78|talk]]) 20:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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::I'm certainly aware of the brief prior discussions on this talk page. I'm ''choosing'' to reopen this because I think the article will be better with "Lieutenant" excised from the lead sentence and relegated elsewhere -- perhaps to a Trivia note, perhaps to another sentence. The lead sentence isn't even properly "in-universe" as it talks about "the protagonist". It's all unnecessarily confusing. The ''next'' paragraph on the other hand, summarizing Shepard's life, ''would'' be a potential appropriate spot to mention e.g. that s/he had reached the rank of Lieutenant Commander as of the beginning of the trilogy. Anyway -- you're definitely entitled to disagree, to say so, and to argue about it. But discussion remains open. [[User:Cattlesquat|Cattlesquat]] ([[User talk:Cattlesquat|talk]]) 20:17, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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:::the lt. cmdr. designation must be kept at the intro as it's shep's official rank at the beginning of the trilogy. i don't care how that's done, though a subtle way of doing it would be like in the intro over at [[Kaidan Alenko]]. hinty hint because facial tells are impossible. [[User:Temporaryeditor78|T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤]] ([[User talk:Temporaryeditor78|talk]]) 20:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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::::Yes it could be preserved in the intro, through (as you say), a bit more subtlety. That is probably the right path. e.g. See below [[User:Cattlesquat|Cattlesquat]] ([[User talk:Cattlesquat|talk]]) 20:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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'''Commander Shepard''' is the main protagonist of [[Mass Effect]], [[Mass Effect 2]], and [[Mass Effect 3]], whose gender, appearance, skills and pre-service history are all customizable and have impacts on the story. Shepard's first name is also customizable, but is never stated in-game. The pre-made Shepard for the quickstart option is a male [[Soldier]] named John, with the Earthborn/Sole Survivor profile.
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Shepard was born on April 11, 2154,<ref>[http://twitter.com/truffle/status/27196273794 Christina Norman's confirmation of Commander Shepard's birthday]</ref> is a graduate of the [[Systems Alliance]] [[N7]] special forces program (service no. 5923-AC-2826), a veteran of the [[Skyllian Blitz]], and is initially assigned to the [[SSV Normandy]] in 2183 as Executive Officer, with a [[Codex/Humanity and the Systems Alliance#Systems Alliance: Military Ranks|Systems Alliance rank]] of Lieutenant Commander. Shepard later becomes the first [[human]] to join the [[Spectres]], an elite special task force for the [[Citadel Council]].
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:It is also worth noting that BioWare only ever refers to Shepard as Commander in all of their promotional (e.g., [https://www.bioware.com/games/#mass-effect-legendary-edition LE promo page]) and sales (e.g., [https://gear.bioware.com/products/commander-shepard-collectible-gold-coin gold coin]) materials. It very much looks to me that that initial codex entry was a choice BioWare chose to completely ignore and discard in every single reference after that one. As such, I would treat it, the exceptional case, as a writing error, not every single other reference to their rank. <span style="font-weight:bold;font-size:100%;background:-webkit-linear-gradient(330deg, red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo, violet);-webkit-background-clip:text;-webkit-text-fill-color:transparent;">[[User:DaBarkspawn|DaBarkspawn]] ([[User talk:DaBarkspawn|talk]])</span> 20:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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::I would not conclude that it was a writing error, especially as "Lieutenant Commander" appears not just once, but at least twice in the Codex/Journal. However, I fully agree that to 99% of the playerbase and in the vast majority of player-facing source material, the character's name is "Commander Shepard" full stop. So in that regard, I somewhat favor what Cattle is proposing above, though honestly I'm mostly neutral. [[User:Neo89515|Neo89515]] ([[User talk:Neo89515|talk]]) 21:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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== Shepard VI page? ==
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Left this on the Discord, but opening discussion here formally -- any objections about creation of a Shepard VI page? Currently the fullest explanation of the Shepard VI is I believe, a trivia note on the [[Thane: Sins of the Father]] walkthrough, and a trivia note on the [[VI]] page. I think it would be good to have a full page to list all the lines, explain the morality variations, how to unlock, and any other bits of info on it. I also think it could be an exception to the usual "no Shepard images" rule just like this page -- I see no issue with having images of the default Shepards, though I wouldn't insist on it. [[User:Neo89515|Neo89515]] ([[User talk:Neo89515|talk]]) 17:12, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
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:No objections from me. Given it's a thing that is present in two games, it's worth its own page.--[[User:Loadingue|Loadingue]] ([[User talk:Loadingue|talk]]) 18:27, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 18:27, 18 February 2023

Talk:Commander Shepard Archives

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Lead quote is a biased representation of the character[]

It is a Renegade reply to Sovereign which, besides being optional, is rather the opposite of what most Mass Effect players actually choose in ME2/ME3 (as you can see from EA's ME3 infographic on the matter, where most players save geth or achieve peace) and hear about from Legion and EDI throughout the games. I understand it has been there for quite a long time, but mistakes are not any less wrong just for being ancient. Several alternatives can be found in Shepard's countless auto-dialogue (i.e. always heard by 100% of players) expressions across the trilogy. I dare propose no particular sentence as there are many that speak of friendship, Reapers, fighting, or generic Alliance background, and any of them can be better than "you are not even alive. You are just a machine [...]". LuizLSNeto (talk) 23:10, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

I would agree with this assessment. Do you have a specific alternate quote in mind to suggest? DaBarkspawn (talk) 23:26, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I actually tend to agree with this, think a better one could be found. I have no ideas yet myself, but I would guess a quote from Shepard's speech right when the Normandy launches for the first time with Shepard in command (beginning the mission to stop Saren) would be good. Ale89515 (talk) 01:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
However, I will say that knowing Mass Effect's dialogue system, you'd be hard-pressed to find a lot of Shepard quotes that aren't tilted towards either Renegade or Paragon. Just a reminder that under the guidelines for headquotes, the lead quote has to be chosen from the FIRST game a character appears in, so in this case ME1. Right now the current quote expresses Shepard's desire to stop Sovereign, and stopping the Reapers is central to the character. I personally have never taken the Renegade ending for Shepard in ME1, but it DOES have a pretty emblematic quote: "The Reapers are still out there. And I'm going to find a way to stop them." The Paragon ending line is: "The Reaper fleet is still coming. Hundreds of ships, maybe thousands. And I'm going to find some way to stop them." Since all variations of this line are basically the same, I'd favor picking one if we really want to change the current Headquote. However, I do have to say that LuizLSNeto is incorrect in asserting the current quote is a Renegade, optional line—it is neither, it is actually just the line Shepard says to Sovereign on Virmire at the conclusion of the conversation (yes, it's very similar to the Renegade option when talking to the dying Destroyer on Rannoch though). While I am not opposed to changing the HQ if another can be found that's better, I am also fine with leaving it if one can't be found. Ale89515 (talk) 02:17, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Perhaps the way around this dilemma is to have two lead quotes, one the Paragon and one the Renegade, thus composing Shepard's dual nature. DaBarkspawn (talk) 02:59, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
No, I don't think that would be kosher or really necessary. Ale89515 (talk) 03:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
Kosher is what we define it to be. DaBarkspawn (talk) 04:15, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

'Originally a woman' trivia?[]

So, news[1] has recently come to surface that the first animation tests for Shepard were that of a woman, thus in a way Shepard started off as a woman, even though the animator in question pointed out that Shepard was always planned to be male and female. Because of that statement, I'm unsure if the whole 'Shepard was a woman first' thing can be added as trivia. Thoughts? --Soren7550 (talk) 02:53, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

He said that the first test of Shepard as an entity was a woman, he didn't say that the Commander was planned to explicitly be only a woman. So I'd say we should write it out in some form of "Commander Shepard's first animation test used the female model" or something similar. - --173.58.251.107 03:45, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Mass Effect 1 Bio[]

I noticed that the article doesn't include the events of the first game, but instead jumps from profile reconstruction to Mass Effect 2 events. Also, DLC information seems to be cut out. Is there any particular reason for this?

Darth Ravigious (talk) 15:28, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

A lot of plot-related content is better covered on dedicated storyline and mission pages (or other appropriate articles) mostly due to canon reasons. Note that this isn't really a proper biography, as the majority of Shepard's story is shaped by the player in each game. The ME2 section only covers the parts of the beginning common to all playthroughs, and information on how moral alignment influences Shepard's appearance. DLC is inherently optional content, much like many missions and other actions. Even universal events may have multiple outcomes or there are many possible versions of them, so they are left out for simplicity's sake.
If you're interested, several discussions on this topic can be found in this Talk page's archives. Elseweyr talkstalk March 12, 2015, 17:44:22 (UTC)

Ah, alright. Yeah, I got the introduction aspect for the other two games. But why not add general information, such as "Shepard becomes executive officer aboard the Normandy, and after Eden Prime, is made a spectre and the captain of the Normandy."? (of course not as poorly written as that). Just general information of stuff that everyone does. Or something about how one of their crew members sacrificed themselves on Virmire, or even the Collector base, since who dies in the suicide mission is not clarified in canon, but it is canon that Shepard survived, in spite of the ending where he/she dies.

I dunno. Just basic stuff. But yeah, I get your point.

173.14.124.145 17:51, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

You may have missed the section: Shepard was born on April 11, 2154, is a graduate of the Systems Alliance N7 special forces program (service no. 5923-AC-2826), and is initially assigned to the SSV Normandy as Executive Officer. Shepard later becomes the first human to join the Spectres, an elite special task force for the Citadel Council.
As for the missions you mention, admins have previously suggested that adding generic history isn't out of the question, although some kind of sandbox write-up would be required first since the events would have to be detailed elegantly enough. And please note that there literally is no canon at all; a Shepard who dies in ME2 is just as "valid" as one whose story continues in ME3. Elseweyr talkstalk March 12, 2015, 18:43:09 (UTC)
I will say a detailed overhaul of this page into both a Profile Reconstruction page and a Commander Shepard character page is one of many things I am working on for this site. Garhdo (talk) 19:48, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

It's probably out of the question, me being new to the wiki and all, but I could help come up with a generic write-up that is detailed on the retelling of events, but does not clarify on the choices (for instance, with the Rachni queen, the article would only mention that "while on Noveria, Shepard encountered the last surviving Rachni queen following their fight with Matriarch Benezia"). As for the suicide mission, if a generic bio were to be written, it seems that the possible death of Shepard would have to be overlooked as a potential exception, seeing as there is a third game, BioWare intending for the story to continue (plus, nobody would play Mass Effect 3 if their "head canon" says Shepard dies after the SM, not to mention the fact that it is unlikely that people actually choose that option on purpose, and, if they end up dying anyway, go back and restart the SM).

And for Mass Effect 3, it would simply clarify that Shepard's actions resulted in the ultimate defeat of the Reapers, which leaves it open ended to the different choices, even the refusal ending (since the next cycle ended up defeating the Reapers, due to Shepard's actions 50,000 years earlier).

173.14.124.145 20:25, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

The fact that Shepard can die during the Suicide Mission is what matters to the wiki from a documenting perspective. Favoring one outcome over another is still as good as establishing canon where there is none, so no stance should be taken where there are multiple possible outcomes. When describing an ME3 Shepard, the implication is that the Commander survived the SM; it's different from explicitly stating that Commander Shepard generally survives the SM and that the opposite is an exception. (Sidenote: if Shepard chooses not to use the Crucible, I don't think we know for sure it was the very next cycle that managed to stop the Reapers.)
And anon, perhaps you're indicating that there are policies and conventions newcomers aren't necessarily aware of, but generally all editors are equal -- a valid contribution is valid no matter the contributor. You can wait for Garhdo to open his project for collaboration; alternatively, I'd be happy to help you start a project of your own. I'm assuming you're Darth Ravigious, but if not: Signing up for an account (and using it) makes things a bit easier if you want to eg. participate in projects like these, or store article sketches in your personal user space so you can work on them at your own pace :) Elseweyr talkstalk March 12, 2015, 21:08:55 (UTC)


Yeah, that was me. I didn't realize that I was not logged in. And that's what I was referring to. Make an implication, but not explicitly state. I probably should have clarified. And all right! Maybe I'll come up with something when I have time. I would not just want to put my thing straight to Shep's page though, so is there someone I should show it to first?

Darth Ravigious (talk) 22:03, March 12, 2015 (UTC)

More info per games[]

Why are the sections for Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Mass Effect 3 so short, shouldn't there be more about Shepard's part in the story? JediMaster1987 (talk) 07:02, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

Mass Effect 1[]

Why is there no section on Mass Effect 1 in Shepard's page? Shouldn't someone add that? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Illuminati Agent 001 (talk · contr).

Someone else already asked that. Also, make sure you put in a sig. --Nord Ronnoc (talk) 00:32, June 19, 2016 (UTC)
There is, that's the entire section titled "Mass Effect" TheKingLerp (talk) 05:05, June 19, 2016 (UTC)

Shepard's height[]

I think I found some worthy trivia. According to figures formerly sold in the Bioware Store, BroShep stands slightly over 6'0 tall, while FemShep stands 5'3 tall. Links to products (they're not sold in the store anymore, but figures from the lines still are- like the Liara and Tali Bishoujo statues). They're both standing pretty straight in the statues/figures in question, so posture shouldn't be a problem in reference to their heights here.68.107.67.37 02:21, December 19, 2016 (UTC)

ME2 Headquote[]

Now that the subject's of headquotes has come up, I realized I really don't like the ME2 choice, as it is not only optional dialogue, it's not particularly representative of Shepard's character even if it was humorous and memorable. I have come up with two alternatives that I propose adopting:

1. "If this is a war I'm going to need an army. Or a really good team." (said to Illusive Man post Freedom's Progress) - very emblematic of Shepard's goal and the ME2 story generally

2. "Cerberus and I want the same thing: to save our colonies. That doesn't mean I answer to them." (said on Horizon to Virmire survivor, Paragon option) - emphasizes Shepard's fundamental conflict during ME2, working with Cerberus while simultaneously trying to maintain a separate identity.

(neither are verified verbatim but close enough)

Ale89515 (talk) 04:10, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

2 is verbatim. 1 is If this a war, I'll need an army. Or a really good team.. that said i favor neither, current one is fine as is. no need for further melodramatics, current ME1 and ME3 quotes got that covered. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 04:30, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Well if you're opposed it's obviously not going anywhere but I don't pretend to fathom the reasoning, or what could possibly be interpreted as "melodramatic" about either choice I proposed. ME2 is about building a team... and about Shepard working with Cerberus. That's not melodrama. Ale89515 (talk) 04:43, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
There isn't anything melodramatic about what you wrote. DaBarkspawn (talk) 04:48, 9 May 2021 (UTC)


Italicization of ME game titles[]

I know from experience generally that we don't italicize the names of the ME games anywhere on the Wiki (even in Trivia sections), though for the life of me I can't actually find this rule SPELLED OUT anywhere in the MoS. If it's not there, and we still follow this convention, then I think it needs to be in writing somewhere. Just leaving a note here in light of a recent edit. Ale89515 (talk) 15:56, 2 June 2021 (UTC)

Rank[]

In researching a recent edit controversy -- there are some references back in the archives (e.g. Talk:Commander Shepard/Archive1#Rank) that an initial codex entry explicitly states Shepard's initial rank to be Lt. Commander. However, fascinatingly, in LE I can find no such reference. Can someone, first of all, provide some kind of OT screenshot that this codex entry actually exists in OT? And/or any such journal entry? I was unable to find them.

To be clear, the Systems Alliance Military Ranks (which are documented in easy-to-find codex entries) define the two relevant ranks as "Lieutenant Commander" and then "Staff Commander". In other words there is no "plain" Commander rank in the Systems Alliance, and we are left to assume e.g. that using the simplified just-Commander form is just a common shorthand. Obviously we aren't talking about "Staff Commander Shepard" either.

However, this presently leaves me with: if we can no longer establish any explicit reference in lore to the Lieutenant Commander rank for Shepard (for example even if it existed in OT but was purged from LE) then there's no justification for the "Lieutenant" being mentioned in this article--nor, obviously, for using Staff Commander. We'd need to just put "Commander"-like-Bioware-does and be left guessing which of the official subranks Shepard held and when. If we can actually establish an explicit Lieutenant Commander confirmation for OT only then that would be a suitable trivia entry.

UPDATE: I have found a journal entry in LE -- at very beginning of ME1, the very first time you get control of Shepard, if you check the entry in your journal it begins "You are Lieutenant Commander Shepard..." Neo was also able to find the codex entry in OT (Secondary => Aliens: Extinct Races => Prothean Beacon) -- I cannot find that codex entry in LE, even in a finished-the-game character. So it (remains) canon that Shepard begins the game as Lt. Commander, and there is of course no further reference to promotion to higher ranks.

HOWEVER, I am going to suggest that as the lead sentence of the article, "Lieutenant Commander Shepard is the main protagonist of Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3, whose gender, appearance, skills and pre-service history are all customizable and have impacts on the story." the reference is inappropriate, because (A) it implies that Shepard maintains specifically the Lt. Commander rank throughout the series when we do not actually know (one way or the other) that is the case, and (B) it causes unnecessary confusion in this issue rearing its head every few years in that Shepard is referred to 99.9% of times as "Commander Shepard". So I'm going to propose that we excise the Lieutenant from that sentence, and make a trivia or reference citation noting that we know Shepard starts as Lt. Commander.

So here I am inviting discussion! Cattlesquat (talk) 18:29, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

My experience is the same as yours, I have not seen Lieutenant Commander in either OE or LE playthroughs. DaBarkspawn (talk) 18:35, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I concur with the suggestion to remove the word 'Lieutenant'. DaBarkspawn (talk) 19:33, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

https://imgur.com/a/XGcc5l5

this isn't even deep-diving in the lore, it's just codex knowledge people are too lazy to read, much less look up. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 19:53, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Again we've established there is early journal reference to Lieutenant Commander. That doesn't necessarily mean the current lead sentence of the article is appropriate. Cattlesquat (talk) 19:58, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
it actually is appropriate. in-universe, there is no "commander" per se in the alliance structure, only lt. and staff. formally speaking, it's lt. commander shepard. rear admiral mikhailovich. colloquially, you got commander shepard and admiral mikhailovich.
you've said before the topic is broached every few years, then read again the numerous sections already said about the matter in the archives. the same arguments there still hold up now, and i don't want a rehash because some people are too lazy.
sparthawg, a military guy, has already given his take on the matter. and so did others from the previous regime. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I'm certainly aware of the brief prior discussions on this talk page. I'm choosing to reopen this because I think the article will be better with "Lieutenant" excised from the lead sentence and relegated elsewhere -- perhaps to a Trivia note, perhaps to another sentence. The lead sentence isn't even properly "in-universe" as it talks about "the protagonist". It's all unnecessarily confusing. The next paragraph on the other hand, summarizing Shepard's life, would be a potential appropriate spot to mention e.g. that s/he had reached the rank of Lieutenant Commander as of the beginning of the trilogy. Anyway -- you're definitely entitled to disagree, to say so, and to argue about it. But discussion remains open. Cattlesquat (talk) 20:17, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
the lt. cmdr. designation must be kept at the intro as it's shep's official rank at the beginning of the trilogy. i don't care how that's done, though a subtle way of doing it would be like in the intro over at Kaidan Alenko. hinty hint because facial tells are impossible. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 20:20, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Yes it could be preserved in the intro, through (as you say), a bit more subtlety. That is probably the right path. e.g. See below Cattlesquat (talk) 20:26, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Commander Shepard is the main protagonist of Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2, and Mass Effect 3, whose gender, appearance, skills and pre-service history are all customizable and have impacts on the story. Shepard's first name is also customizable, but is never stated in-game. The pre-made Shepard for the quickstart option is a male Soldier named John, with the Earthborn/Sole Survivor profile.

Shepard was born on April 11, 2154,[1] is a graduate of the Systems Alliance N7 special forces program (service no. 5923-AC-2826), a veteran of the Skyllian Blitz, and is initially assigned to the SSV Normandy in 2183 as Executive Officer, with a Systems Alliance rank of Lieutenant Commander. Shepard later becomes the first human to join the Spectres, an elite special task force for the Citadel Council.


It is also worth noting that BioWare only ever refers to Shepard as Commander in all of their promotional (e.g., LE promo page) and sales (e.g., gold coin) materials. It very much looks to me that that initial codex entry was a choice BioWare chose to completely ignore and discard in every single reference after that one. As such, I would treat it, the exceptional case, as a writing error, not every single other reference to their rank. DaBarkspawn (talk) 20:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
I would not conclude that it was a writing error, especially as "Lieutenant Commander" appears not just once, but at least twice in the Codex/Journal. However, I fully agree that to 99% of the playerbase and in the vast majority of player-facing source material, the character's name is "Commander Shepard" full stop. So in that regard, I somewhat favor what Cattle is proposing above, though honestly I'm mostly neutral. Neo89515 (talk) 21:08, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Shepard VI page?[]

Left this on the Discord, but opening discussion here formally -- any objections about creation of a Shepard VI page? Currently the fullest explanation of the Shepard VI is I believe, a trivia note on the Thane: Sins of the Father walkthrough, and a trivia note on the VI page. I think it would be good to have a full page to list all the lines, explain the morality variations, how to unlock, and any other bits of info on it. I also think it could be an exception to the usual "no Shepard images" rule just like this page -- I see no issue with having images of the default Shepards, though I wouldn't insist on it. Neo89515 (talk) 17:12, 18 February 2023 (UTC)

No objections from me. Given it's a thing that is present in two games, it's worth its own page.--Loadingue (talk) 18:27, 18 February 2023 (UTC)