Talk: Ethan Jeong


I played through this scene this morning and despite having purchased every charm rank available to me (10/12 IIRC), I was unable to avoid killing Jeong.

I suspect that I missed some paragon points earlier on in the game that would have unlocked the necessary charm ranks.

== Intimidation ==

if you use Intimidation on ethan jeong you dont kill him, pretty similar to charm

== Paragon points. ==




From what I know, U first need to unlock all the Charm ranks by to achieve 75% of the Paragon points. Quite a stupid move, couse to achieve it U have to visit other planets and such to gain them and the developers forgot about us who like to negotiate >) BUT all-in-all that scumbag doesn't deserve to live from what he did to the colony and I prefer to shoot him and let the colony to be self-efficient. Maybe they'll cut will loose, but at least they have a free will and no influence and plus with that jerk from corporation >) Don't forget that they got water, power and food (as U completed this task in earlier mission assignments). I am sure that they will discover something from Prothean ruins later and somebody will start again funding the colony >).

I initially self-commanded my meta-ethics according to Augustinian strictness in terms of infliction of homicide. I suppose I realized Augustinian rejection in totality of certain self-defense situations simply was a case of misguided rigorism. So, if fully educated in spiritual just war tradition (and not only of Christian Catholicism), and trying to be an actual paladin, the first play-through experiences, here, where I perforce could do nothing of my personal approval in this situation were frustrating. I am a relatively rapid learner. The game has its idiosyncratic circumscribed boundaries and I kept doing everything I could to "max out Charm" in failure, until I realized the mathematical equation used in the programming, sequential logic bound in a certain task-interdependent way. We could have been mercifully hinted to be exploration-minded before accessing this mission, I suppose... On the other hand, I realized justifiable homicide was the best for all parties, some teachings on justifiable violence upon deeper analysis lacked subtlety. Still, I always and ever shall experience "Renegade" points as viscerally sickening. 

I really do wonder what were the writers, developers, creators thinking, with the unfolding eventuality most would see as "Ideal-type", being really, the re-forging of the shackles of those poor colonists, their doom, not salvation! "The consumer-base won't even realize success is death, HA", who knows...

What the heck am I even doing there if I am going to leave those people in serfdom to tyrannic evil...?

BTW, I now know for a fact the vigilantist Zen warrior-mysticism of Garrus, was not just detected in my mind. Do people know it is interesting to compare the medieval Hellenistic-Christian notion of "tyrannicide" with our "vigilante"... I wonder, hmm... FLAGELLUM DEI, THEOMASTIX.

And on a more culturally refined note: HECK YES THE SCUMBAG GOT HIS VERY OWN PERSONALIZED SPECIAL DELIVERY, WITH UTMOST CARE, DELIVERED ALSO WITH GUSTO! ARG, WOOF, YAHOO [CHEST-POUNDING SESSION, EUPHORIA]!

Simply because you don't care about external markers of a dead academic notion of "learnedness", i.e. your syntax and spelling, you will not be given the chance here, such is editorial elitist snobbery. Those who claim to be the whitest-robed humanistic democrats, one knows thereby as the very opposite.

I am going to purposely be as grammatically messed up as possible henceforth, protesting this elitist, anti-democratic in-group attitude of those who "allow what exists".{{unsigned|104.236.195.130}}

== Imposible to Charm? ==

I just passed Feros, I am at level 38 (I did every single mission except for the turian insignias, even the mineral prospection), and I maxed the charm, literally, I maxed it, so it's not posible to increse it further (I got the full bar) and I got my paragon to the max posible at this point of the story. Every single avioldable conflict was avoided, even in the asteroid DLC, I didn't sell the info to the broker, I even did all the simulators giving the most humble answers (I think I got some paragon points with that), and I did the unborn baby genotherapy dialogue that for some reason gave more Paragon than saving a group of hostages. My only Renegade points are for accepting the 2 crimelords mission, and the Asari diplomat mission wich at the end gave me more Paragon points.
So, I came to the conclusion it's imposible to save that a**hole in the first playthrough...there is new game+ in this game, isn't there?
--{{SUBST:User:OtakuJuanma/Firma}} 05:21, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

You need to have all twelve charm points, not just until the bar won't budge. So you need to wait some more. It is possible to save him in the first playthrough, but you have to either put Feros off for a long time or use Intimidate, which takes ten points as opposed to twelve. Shooting him has lasting consequences, but they won't affect the game in a major sense unless your intention is to keep Feros under Exogeni control. --[[Special:Contributions/173.58.100.7|173.58.100.7]] 05:10, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Also, yes, there is a new game plus ability. Just play the game, choose to start a new one, select from existing careers, find the one you want and start. Eventually you'll unlock all the charm/intimidate points so you can have a chance to save Jeong in a later playthrough. --[[Special:Contributions/173.58.100.7|173.58.100.7]] 05:50, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Just checking: When you say you maxed the charm, do you mean you had 12 points in Charm, or that you had put in as many points as it was possible to put in at that point? It is possible to Charm Jeong on the first playthrough, but you need to leave Feros until relatively late in the game, when all 12 slots are unlocked. [[User:-Sophia|-Sophia]] ([[User talk:-Sophia|talk]]) 11:48, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Well...I got the remaining 2 points on charm during ferros, to be more specific, when I handled the colonists in a non-lethal way. So I suppose if I picked Noveria first, I would have the required Paragon -_-
--{{SUBST:User:OtakuJuanma/Firma}} 23:59, March 31, 2015 (UTC)

Yes, if you had done Noveria first, you would have been able to save him. Not that I would recommend it, but you would have had the option. --[[Special:Contributions/173.58.100.7|173.58.100.7]] 19:11, April 1, 2015 (UTC)

[MASS EFFECT 1 ENDING SPOILERS] I'm making a seccond run so I can have my shappard as a total goodye-two-shoes beccause I stupidly killed the council on my first run supposing they were going to survive if I chose "Focus on the soverain" and I wana know, Are there concequences on ME2 and 3? I don't want people killed by the hand of Sheppard if it's not mandatory (I even made Saren to have a change of heart...kinda), but I don't want to be the responsable of a collony being trated as guinea pigs again. So, as personally I see the 2 outcomes as bad, I want to know What outcome gives Sheppard a "better" reputation?  and with who?
--{{SUBST:User:OtakuJuanma/Firma}} 04:26, April 11, 2015 (UTC)

Kill Jeong, save the colonists w/gas grenades. --[[Special:Contributions/173.58.100.7|173.58.100.7]] 04:34, April 11, 2015 (UTC)
----
to all concerned: next time use the blogs/forums/chatroom for asking game mechanics questions. this section is no longer about improvements to the article (it never was to begin with), which deals with the character from a storytelling point of view.

fair warning. [[User:Temporaryeditor78|T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤]] ([[User talk:Temporaryeditor78|talk]]) 04:38, April 11, 2015 (UTC

== Dear BioWare ==

Dear BioWare: Why did you taint my character with negative "Renegade" points for simply performing a police action against an armed aggressor with obvious homicidal intentions and mentality?

Does BioWare not give its approbation to self-defense? I don't comprehend. 

One need not Specter officer status possession even, any civilian could have rightfully and lawfully killed Jeong in the circumstances, honestly.
 
Unless one is an adherent of Gnostic-Dualist anti-cosmic pacifism, whose pretend nobility, if humanly applied, would simply result in the intellectual, peaceful section of humanity being weeded out ineluctably; the deluded neurasthenic believers of such pacifism being evolutionary-wise, counter-selected, dooming any kinfolk of even distant kinship united in being more than animal merely; so the earth loses its "angelic" idealist intellectuals, all those not intraspecies predatory in mind-set, basically. So who, what remains? Non-adherents of Gnostic-Dualism and its poseur purity. So the "oh so civilized pacifism" in reality is deadly to civilization and pure warlordism and heinous bloody fist-law, would reign on this earth all the more terribly, if pacifism was not left to rot in sectarian corners rightly. The less brutal animal impulsive types, per Gnostic-Dualism apocalyptic world-negation, auto-de-select themselves from this planet, and not only themselves, but natural law operating, even those remote affinity relations, and thus in general all peacefully-inclined species members are targeted by the Gnostic extremity of abstraction indirectly; the Cathar ENDURA was nothing beyond suicide given a ritualistic spurious spiritualization; the popularly-conceived, "monstrous", Catholics, if not destroying the Cathars, had the Cathar world-view been victorious, logically, would have equated to human species self-immolation, self-born genocide, via similar logic and natural law operation; pacifist idealism is thus scandalous in its inevitable tendency to promote the death of civilization and its posturing angelical extremism, creates the most warlike, uncivilized and genocidal conditions possible.

Let us not behave as if limp-wristed over-socialized recovering hippies of a decadent far-leftist notion of "morals", right? 

If the colony survived again dependent upon a rogue, amoral corporation-based groundwork, how would there be any survival or rebirth in any sense whatsoever? I allowed the possibility for the community to not merely survive, is that truly what the colony wanted, to exist eternally as enserfed playthings of the wicked? My "brutality" freed the colony to exist beyond unjust external impositions of a criminal organization: the killing of Jeong indirectly provided the possibility of an upward transfiguration of the colony. My "renegade murder" was a heroic service!

By reacting fittingly to a homicidal minded initial aggressive actor, I RISK the WELFARE of the colony? I risk the welfare by liberating the colony directly from its criminal rogue corporate sponsor and agent, psychopathic and evil without argument - I thereby endanger the future of the colony and get thrown Renegade points undeserved?

Why is defending a family of the colonists, in extension, the communal weal, as it is literally presented with illegal, criminal infliction of death, considered "Renegade" instead of archetypal "Paragon"?

Shepard reacted very pacifically compared to police instructional material in scenarios as narrated in M.E. 

Especially in the context of being a Commander officer-grade figure in a paramilitary special forces echelon broadly anti-terrorist in description, Shepard's actions are wholly intelligible, legally defensible, morally untouchable and psychologically indicate the opposite of "Renegade" as every where else, encountered in the game - the violence is super-personal, altruistic and knightly, white knightly.

Jeong PROVOKED causally his death in deciding, voluntarily, to initiate unlawful serious coercion or force against innocent people - there was direct personal assault, deliberate placement of himself in a position where he knew that presence would provoke trouble - do you know the legal-juridical concept of "initial aggressor"? The brutal initial aggression of lawlessness of Jeong could only be legally not grounds for defensive aggressive death-infliction, if he clearly withdrew from the situation and made clear in some shape or manner, the attempt to communicate he was doing so after acting so disproportionately and lawlessly; did Jeong in any way shape or form evince the shadowiest grounds for believing he was withdrawing or abandoning the conflict he himself created in his nescience? Did the colonist civilian or civilians endangered by Jeong have the awareness of no longer existing in mortal danger from the initial aggressor?

Well - NO. I wonder why? 

PERHAPS BECAUSE HE WAS UNAPOLOGETIC IN HIS CRIMINALITY AND THE HYPER-AGGRESSION WAS INDEED CRIMINAL, THE OPPOSITE OF WITHDRAWAL WAS IN HIS MIND, MURDER IN HIS REPTILE GANGLION ONLY, THE VERY OPPOSITE OF ANY WITHDRAWAL! NO INTENT TO BEHAVE LAWFULLY AND ETHICALLY EXISTED EVEN EMBRYONIC IN THE JERK'S BRAIN, SO I ELATEDLY BESPATTERED THAT DEFICIENT BRAIN, RATHER, ITS GLORIOUSLY SHREDDED PARTS, IN INCARNADINE DISTRIBUTION OF JUSTICE NOTHING BUT GALAHADEAN. 

SO, WAS GIVEN, THE PUNISHMENT, DUE. GIVEN IT WAS, IN PERFECT CLEANLINESS OF CONSCIENCE. THE END.

I had the "points" in "Charm" but this inhuman, excremental freak simply was an enemy to all good-willed people, if one is a thinker, the enlightened option was to destroy, ending unknown tragedies, nipping in the bud so beautifully, I did, yes! So, exterminated was the saintly corporatist, sans any modern masochistic neurosis.  

If that is "Renegade" morality, then proudly I am the UTLAGATUS of this civilization.

O YEAH. AND THEN SOME.{{unsigned|104.236.195.130}}