Talk: Jeff "Joker" Moreau

dead?

Damm.The best guy dies ='( General Mike Colan

You say so. However, given that his fate is still unknown, and will remain so till the game releases, I prefer to avoid making assumptions. SpartHawg948 21:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Should Joker be considered the pilot of the new Normandy? The citation from this was an old OXM article that could simply be referencing him appearing at the beginning. where is this info coming from?

Since nothing appears to that effect on this page, I'll assume you're referring to the SR-2 Normandy page? As should be noted on that page, the source is a google doc that is purportedly a transcript from the latest Game Informer magazine. I say purportedly only because, as yet (as far as I know) no one has actually seen the actual magazine. So, that's the "source", for which we are currently seeking substantiation. SpartHawg948 22:40, December 9, 2009 (UTC)

Given what we supposedly already know about his appearance in ME2, can we add an assumption that Cerberus did some work on Joker?--Allurade Dendra 00:49, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

No I dont think so, he might be using robot leg things like xavier in wolverine and the x-men, or he could have turned down the gravity so he bones wouldnt snap, or he could just have been walking really really really really carefully ralok 02:46, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Based on his comments in ME I'd say that he couldn't carry Shepard, since he can barely carry his own weight. The impact of his foot on a surface seems like it would be more then enough, but the cybernetics, that's something to look at, but who's to say Cerberus didn't give them to him.--Allurade Dendra 16:36, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

I thought it was Shepard who carried Joker. SpartHawg948 20:42, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

Yes. I read it wrong.--Allurade Dendra 23:11, December 29, 2009 (UTC)

He's walking in the Stars of Mass Effect video, limping but walking, so It's safe to say he had some sort of operation, I guess.TheEverAlertAndSilentStep 04:54, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

Naw, I just beat MAss Effect recently, third time, and talking to Joker reveals he has braces for his legs to help him walk, but they aren't enough.--Allurade Dendra 20:27, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

I believe in an interview/walkthrough with Adrien we learned Cerberus did perform some changes on him. I imagine they had to do with his condition and making it easier to live with, or even helping to make him function without worrying about it. Tecni 20:33, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

That doesn't surprise me. Too bad he still has to work with the ship AI.--Allurade Dendra 22:52, January 21, 2010 (UTC)

All I can say is: Joker is the man.

Should someone think of a ME2 quote for joker? I was thinking about how he said he fractured his finger pushing the mute button for EDI. Tantalus91 19:26, January 28, 2010 (UTC)Tantalus91

"What the shit?" - onboard the SR-2 Normandy as it's being invaded by Collectors. Best quote ever, because Seth Greens delivery is amazing :P --Fiskn 04:28, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

HE CAN WALK!

Why does no one, especially Shepard, ask him or even comment about the fact that he can now walk? --AleximMose 23:25, January 30, 2010 (UTC)

Because if you pay attention in the last game, he states he can walk, it's just really difficult for him.--Allurade Dendra 17:56, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, but let's play a little with assumptions here.

Joker says in the first game that he could barely walk without crutches because his bones would crack. Staying with this, he needs help to get up from his chair in the beginning of ME2, where the SR-1 Normandy gets attacked. At this point, he cannot walk very well on his own.

When we next meet him again, at the Cerberus station, he does walk without much trouble albeit with a limp. I cannot remember if he says anything about it but we can assume that Cerberus helped him as best they could. It's at this point that I find it strange that Shepard does not comment on Joker walking, because having been dead, comatose and/or sedated/asleep for the last two years, he couldn't know that Joker would've gotten this help from Cerberus.

His disease takes the backseat in the second game, which is a little sad IMO. They spent a lot of time having him talk about his brittle bones in the first game but it's barely mentioned in the second. --Fiskn 04:26, February 1, 2010 (UTC)

They might of built it up just for that one scene in ME2. And I would like to think Shepard is smart enough to figure out Joker was worked on without having to ask.--Allurade Dendra 20:42, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

Maybe it was a discussion they had off screen. Laexio 14:52, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

This is a topic we had on the Mass Effect Bioware forums. I wondered about Joker being treated with Heavy Bone Weave (one of the research projects you can find during the course of the game). The conclusion was given that Joker had actually been treated with Heavy Bone Weave, but because his multiple broken bones had caused them to heal improperly, this was something that the medical procedure could not fix. In essence, the Heavy Bone Weave only reinforced mishapen bones, the surgery could not restore them to their original state. This could explain why, although he can walk like he could not before, he's unable to walk like a normal person can. But since this is all fan speculation, although highly likely, I've chosen not to put it in the Joker page here. --Tilarta 08:35, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah that is speculation, and a lot of it. No matter how "likely" it is, this would need dev confirmation before it goes into the article. Lancer1289 16:43, April 23, 2011 (UTC)

Unfortunately, that seems to be the case with a lot of things in Mass Effect. You know that a fact is entirely likely (like the bone weave on Joker or the Antenna on Legion being an wireless transmitter), but how will you ask a Dev that question? I'd love to have a "Pick-A-Dev's Brain" day, so we can settle all the issues like this. --Tilarta 01:55, May 6, 2011 (UTC)

Joker Quotes

I have to say, in ME2 especially Joker makes some fantastic quotes, it'd be kinda fun to have a spot for some of his greatest, however doesn't really feel like something to go on the article, or in trivia. So put some of your favorite Joker quotes here?

Mine, and the one inspiring me to write this up: "Oh, another dangerous alien aboard, Commander. Thanks. Why can't you collect coins or commemorative plates or something?" Joker - After Thane Recruitment. Jaline 17:46, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

"Why's it always claws and guns? Can't we piss off a fuzzy planet? Still dangerous, but hey, bunnies."

Maybe ask people to put their favorite quotes on your talk page or something? We really ask that people not just pile quotes onto article talk pages like this. SpartHawg948 22:28, February 6, 2010 (UTC)

lol

If Joker heard of the Matrix, then does he know that a game with him in it was released in 2010? LordDeathRay ^{(Comm Chatter)} 03:30, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

"Quick, Shepard! Go find a video games and technology museum back on Earth that has Mass Effect 3, and figure out how exactly we're supposed to defeat that fleet of Reapers!" UERD 06:13, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

It is likely that in the game universe mass effect does not exist as a franchise in game so that will never happen.Adopted Techno 16:17, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

There might be a Mass Effect franchise in the Mass Effect universe!!!--Vault4 16:24, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

If so how come nobody mentions it.Adopted Techno 16:43, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

It is just an idea. (You can't say there is probably not a Mass Effect franchise in the Mass Effect universe without saying there probably is)--Vault4 16:57, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

There could be because of the time gap.Adopted Techno 17:16, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

It's this phenomenon: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CelebrityParadox . ShepardWhyThisJubilee 21:58, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for clearing this up.Adopted Techno 22:15, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

There is an sci-fi called Spaceballs which features such a paradox. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvd3kaupZ60 Kd82 23:45, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

shootin' with a gun?

I think that it was hilarious seeing Joker fire an assault rifle on the Collector Base. LordDeathRay ^{(Comm Chatter)} 04:29, February 14, 2010 (UTC)

Pretty much everything Joker does in ME1 and 2 is hilarious. Him and Mordin are tied for my favourite characters in the whole series.

I am not sure how Joker shooting a gun is funny. But otherwise it was interesting to see Joker get off his Vrolik Syndrome induced butt and do something.MEffect Fan 03:37, May 10, 2010 (UTC)

Quotes

I notice some quotes have been littered about the trivia section.. proportionally large IMO. Joker is one of the most quote-worthy characters in practically any game. Should we just have a Quotes section above or below Trivia to stick all that in? It would clean up the trivia box for actual trivia and centralize all the hilarity in one spot. Aisynia 07:50, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

The admins have discussed quote sections before, and the long and short of it is, we don't want them in articles. If people want sections or pages devoted to quotes from particular characters, they are free to post them in the Forums. SpartHawg948 07:52, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

K. Just that the Trivia section is a mess, and I don't know where to begin on cleaning it up. Was just a thought. Aisynia 13:22, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

You and me both. Quite a few of the trivia sections are getting this way. I suppose someone will probably have to do something about it. Where's an admin when you need one? Oh, wait... that'd be me! :{ SpartHawg948 13:24, February 15, 2010 (UTC)

Joker's bone Disease.

I'm just wondering which type is Joker's Osteogenesis Imperfecta cause there are eight different types of OI? Shadowhawk27 21:58, October 6, 2010 (UTC)

Assuming Type I, due to the fact that he fits most of the symptoms, such as brittle bones, and he also hunches over when he walks, fitting the curvature of the spine symptom, etc. -Anonymous

Romance

Why can't we romance this guy even with his brittle bones,if he can work a gun and crawl to the AI core he can well you know. He is the best man I think he is funny,cute,rugged,determined and smart. and best of all he is in both games. Oh and he works that hat yea.Marcymariehunter 20:31, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

And this isn't the appropiate place for something like this. Use the Forums, or a blog, but not the talk page. Lancer1289 20:48, November 2, 2010 (UTC)

needless rewording

"clears" is excessively vague. my edit was intended to clarify the actual content as concisely as possible. Asdf1239^talk 00:36, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Joker's Mother

I just noticed that one of his lines if you hang around the cockpit is "If Mom could see me now, we'd have zombies on top of everything else." That kind of implies that his mother is dead. Is that something that should be included, maybe in trivia? 24.247.162.139 16:46, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I have to say no because that is your interpretation of it. I can come up with about 3 off hand and each of them is as reasonable as the next. Interpretations are not trivia as they are subject to a multitude of factors. In addition, where is the source that states beyond a reasonable doubt that Joker's mother is dead? Right not it is speculation, and speculation or interpretations of vague dialogue statements, a.k.a. opinions are not allowed in articles. Lancer1289 17:26, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, you're probably right. Just never noticed it before today! 24.247.162.139 18:28, February 21, 2011 (UTC)

Mass Effect 3 Ending

Can someone tell where the line in this article about "relationship score" is coming from? I was wondering what determined who comes out of the Normandy and how it works. I googled and all I got were hits about the asses on metacritic. Matt 2108 01:53, March 10, 2012 (UTC)

Synthesis Pic

Can someone take a picture of jokers face after the Synthesis ending, maybe just after he leaves the Normandy, to show the effects of the merge on his facial features, it would be appreciated.

Or just watch this video starting that the four minute mark. Lancer1289 23:19, March 15, 2012 (UTC)

Would you kindly, do as I requested. TheRealTerminal 12:41, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

And if this is waht all of this was about, then take it elsewhere as that isn't what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 14:57, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Sister?

Is there any info regarding whether or not Joker's sister Hilary is the Hilary mentioned by the PTSD asari T'Goni at Huerta Memorial? Both are 15 and from Tiptree.174.60.11.194 01:59, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

At this point it is all speculation. Lancer1289 01:54, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks. Just wondering...174.60.11.194 02:00, March 16, 2012 (UTC)

I understand and agree with the policy that speculation does not belong in the body of an article. I've also noticed just how often this page gets edited to remove attempts to add this information. Would the addition of a footnote maybe satisfy both sides of this issue? It would allow those who expect the information to be found here to find it, but it would also be set apart from the main article text. I was thinking something like this: See Aeian T'Goni for an incident that may involve Joker's family. Jbusnengo (talk) 21:24, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

It's been a while since we've had anything on this issue. It doesn't come up enough to justify that yet. Lancer1289 (talk) 21:41, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

You're the editor, so it's your call. I will point out, however, that if you look at the page's history, this information has been added and subsequently removed from the page no less than ten times, including at least once during each month since release (24 Aug, 13 Jul, 5 Jun, 26 May, 28 Apr, 18 Mar, and other occurrences), with the most recent occurrence being today. It may be a while since it's come up on the talk page, but that's not true for the article page. Jbusnengo (talk) 22:03, August 24, 2012 (UTC)

Bump. Shouting doesn't seem likely to get this problem to go away. Jbusnengo (talk) 03:06, October 8, 2012 (UTC)

I don't see how you can call this speculation when the information from the game clearly points to this being Joker's sister. Why would it be included in the game to begin with if it was not Joker's sister. There is no reason for it to be there.

And that is circular logic to say the least. So far, no one has offered any proof and until proof is offered, it will not be added. And from now on, if anyone comes to argue the point, posts will not be responded to without proof being offered. Lancer1289 (talk) 05:06, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

It is not circular logic. What proof would be suffise enough? Do you need the asari to scream she killed Joker's sister during her confessional? Why else would the writers give you the option of letting her commit suicide if it was meant to be a random telling of a battle on a planet you don't get to go to or really have anything to do with? Why call the girl Hilary and give her age as 15 if it's not Joker's sister. There is no point in doing that and that is proof enough it is Joker's sister.

Actually, that would be perfect proof if the asari actually said it, the kind of proof that warrants bringing it into the article. That or dev confirmation.--Legionwrex (talk) 05:49, December 21, 2012 (UTC)

Fair enough.

Actually If you go onto the bridge after a mission, Joker will be talking to Liara about refugees from Tiptree and Joker will ask if Hilary was one of the refugees. We have so many clues pointing that she was Joker's sister. You don't actually believe games are made during short breaks with no real story, just unparallelled stories? In case you didn't read it properly here is what you would suggest

• TIPTREE GETS ATTACKED BY HUSKS
• IN ANOTHER TIPTREE PLACE, HUSKS ATTACK
• HILLARY, 15 FIGHTS HUSKS ALONG WITH AN ASARI, AND EVENTUALLY GETS KILLED, AND HER STORY IS TOLD BY AN ASARI
• IN ANOTHER TIPTREE PLACE, HILLARY, 15, HAS HER HOME ATTACKED BY HUSKS AND NEVER IS HEARD FROM EVER AGAIN, EVEN THOUGH THERE ARE REFUGEES.

Do you honestly expect someone coming out and say "WELP IN CASE YOU DIDN'T READ BETWEEN THE LINES, JOKER'S SISTER IS DEAD!" Is this like your first Wiki you ever joined? There are countless of Wiki's that take the smallest clue and insert it into their articles even if they are speculative. Head over to Kingdom Hearts, 9 people 9 hours 9 doors, Burn Notice, Person Of Interest, ESPECIALLY LOST Wikias and get wrecked there.--MillerJ (talk) 17:18, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

Synthesis

When you choose synthesis ending, does that mean Joker will have his sickness compensated? --Takerudavis 11:07, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

There was no indication of that. Lancer1289 12:00, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Well, that s**ks. It would be one reason to choose this ending. Also letting him and Edi have kids, which as well is not certain, I guess... Not much, but when choosing from three "meh", even as little as that would be enough to choose. --Takerudavis 14:57, March 26, 2012 (UTC)

Joker Romance Petition

Hi, I'd really ask Joker fans who want romance between the Joker and Shepard come to the petition. Many people drew, creating alternative stories, videos and more. And finally, enjoy an dissolute odhozenosti from Bioware in the form of EDI. I think that you do not deserve this. The longest of all the fans in Mass Effect waiting for his affair, but nothing.Please join the petition at:http://www.change.org/petitions/alexander-charles-jeff-sliva-we-want-romance-with-the-joker-and-female-male-shepard [1] We can do it! We're fans of the Joker!

This has zero place on a talk page as this is so far from the purpose of them, that it isn't even funny. Lancer1289 16:36, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry, but that it is important. Joker and Shepard just belong together, suggest to that in the ME1 and ME2 and for some reason, it is not there. So we must make themselves known. CzechJeff5

It's NOT important, this isn't a petition page for romances, if you want a romance with an asshole who says he hates someone because he doesn't praise his flying ability enough or makes comments implying that former squadmates are stinking out the Normandy do it somewhere else.

Some of us want Gayrus to be a canon romance option, but you don't see Gayrus supporters trying to take over Garrus' talk page.

Second.--MillerJ (talk) 17:20, December 24, 2012 (UTC)

About EDI

There was a note about EDI's fate when talking about what happened with Joker at the end of Mass Effect 3, however it has been confirmed that EDI still appears even if the destroy ending is chosen (it's on EDI's page); this is an obvious conflict of info between two pages.--Nintendogeek01 20:30, May 26, 2012 (UTC)

Missing hat.

The article says Joker's hat is missing when he drops you in Ilos, but I don't seem to remember that being the case and I've seen plenty of video of that scene where he is still wearing it. File:Gal-icon.jpg OLIOSTER ^(talk) 19:06, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

No it's correct. I did a drop on Ilos late last night, and sure enough, his hat was missing. Lancer1289 19:08, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

• Yeah I just now noticed it but its only for a couple seconds so I must of just not been paying attention. File:Gal-icon.jpg OLIOSTER ^(talk) 19:09, July 7, 2012 (UTC)

Citadel DLC trivium (Dr. Moreau)

Was my addition grammatically incorrect or something? I don't remember anything about in faq talking about such things. There are tons of references in his dialogue lines and most of them are mentioned here. Why was the one from Citadel reverted with no explanation, especially since this is an obvious one?

It is name trivia, and name trivia is not trivia. More is needed to allow trivia where the only connection is a name. Lancer1289 (talk) 15:05, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Name trivia would be one when a connection between Joker's surname and book is made, but this is not the case - he says the mentioned phrase in the game. You're arguing semantics, and frankly - a "reference" is not only a straightforward copy-paste quote from the referred work. As I mentioned, great part of Joker's character are references and some of them may be unknown to the parts of players, such trivia help them understand all the ones they missed, because they didn't know the mentioned work and this is one of such cases, considering the book is hundred years old. As a wikia, its idea should help people understand the franchise and broaden their knowledge, especially when understanding something requires out-of-game knowledge, even if it is just a playful reference. I can understand deleting speculations, but this one, since it is a fact. 78.88.193.0 15:25, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

It is not fact, nothing is fact without devconfirmation. That is site policy. Now, name trivia is name trivia without further evidence. You have yet to present more evidence so it is not trivia. Get evidence to support it and then it can maybe go in. That is site policy. Giving me an overlong definition of what you think trivia is is not helping your case. Evidence, not opinion is what is needed. Lancer1289 (talk) 15:30, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Again, you are arguing semantics. I wasn't even talking about trivia, assuming by default that you consider references as trivia when I saw them in the section (and not only in Joker's case). There are even speculated references, without any evidence from the devs supporting them. There's one similar to mine where, according to sole facts, the only connection aside from the knowledge about this titles, is the actor playing Joker. Why am I asked for an evidence from developers then? It seems like a double-standard or just an impassable wall, considering contacting developers over a tiny dialogue line in the game, when a reference is the only possible explanation of the Joker's line. And this is an evidence, a circumstantial one, but still an evidence. I didn't provide you with my explanation of what trivia is. The thing you called an "overlong explanation" is just me explaining what it should be in the article - because it broadens the knowledge about Joker's references to the players. What sort of evidence do you need? 78.88.193.0 15:57, June 15, 2013 (UTC)

Evidence in some way that backs up the reference. You have yet to provide any evidence to back up your claim. Lancer1289 (talk) 16:26, June 15, 2013 (UTC)