Talk: Kelly Chambers

Talk:Kelly Chambers Archives

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• Archive 1

LOTSB Question

So... has anyone tried seeing if hooking up with Kelly constitutes infidelity as far as Liara is concerned? I know that this question was raised pre-release. Or is it possible for Shepard to have his/her cake and eat it too? If anyone knows, cool, but if not I'll know here in a bit... SpartHawg948 01:58, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

I had Liara on the Normandy when I had only caboodled with Kelly and nobody else. Nothing about her came up. I'm going to see with my character who cheated on her with Tali to see if there's a difference. Lovelyb0nes 02:21, September 8, 2010 (UTC)

What are the exact dialouge choices for establishing a relationship with Kelly and developing it to it's natural conclusion?--HAD 22:41, September 25, 2010 (UTC)

It can't be considered a to full term relationship, not really, but this should be what you need: First conversation, when she says she could trust you if she fell back, say you'll do more than catch her. During the basic "let's chat" conversation, when she explains that she loves all species, say "you're very loving". After every recruitment mission, always choose complimentary and flirtatious dialogue, the most important being calling her beautiful when talking about Samara. When she offers dinner, accept. Save her on the suicide mission, and comfort her after. Complete Lovelyb0nes 01:02, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

One of my FemSheps had already invited Kelly up a few times before I played through LotSB with her; and I noticed no differences with Liara (same mixture of tears, naughty, and nice). Kelly didn't say anything either. AnotherRho 22:23, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Found a vid that says if you had a short thing with Kelly it won't affect your other relationships with the others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUepy3DSKU0&feature=fvw Shadowhawk27 13:01, October 7, 2010 (UTC)

I am curious if romancing her in ME3 has any consequence on my long-term LI, because now we DO get that incriminating picture as a result. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 1singur (talk · contr).

Adding shadow broker dialog

Someone should mention the joke where she says that she "Wouldn't want to be alone with Zaeed Massani," but you can find a conversation between here and Zaeed in the Shadow Broker's lair, where she's listening to him tell Merc stories.

That isn't dialogue but in Zaeed's SB Dossier. That is the only place that it will be. While it does have Kelly in it, the information in the SB dossiers doens't need to be repeated on other pages. Lancer1289 05:38, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

Quite right that it's in the Shadow Broker dossiers, but it most definitely is dialogue - just recorded, not audible. Important dialogue at that, since it shows Kelly doing her crew-monitoring job despite being fearful of time alone with Massani.

Dance Routines

The fact that Kelly has different dance routines based on the cabin music should be reflected on her page. This is not readily apparent and isn't indicated anywhere else in this wiki.

Blindman25 17:00, February 8, 2011 (UTC)Blindman25

And the same applies to the dancers in Afterlife and Chora's Den in ME who's routines also change with the music. It really isn't unique because she probably uses the same code as the dancers at the time. As such, I really can't see it is any more notable than noting it for the dancers in the locations mentioned. Lancer1289 19:01, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

I guess the significance isn't that her dance changes, but the fact that you can change her dance by changing the music. I am unaware of a way to change the music within the clubs (at least within the game.) Blindman25 21:15, February 8, 2011 (UTC)Blindman25

> If Shepard chooses the latter option, the team arrives just in time to see Kelly and other crew members get dissolved into raw organic material — which Doctor Chakwas describes as paste — used to create the Human-Reaper.

Maybe it is bug but I have not choosen to go to omega 4 immediately but still save the crew. Still I did not complete any other missions before going to omega 4 relay.

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I think there is some kind of internal game clock that determines how long is too long to wait. Cheeseburgz

Frustrating

Three playthroughs now and i cant get kelly's email. I made sure not to talk to ANY crew member except to get loyalty missions and purchase [UPGRADE]s. I flirted with her at all the correct times, and I saved her from the collectors, and STILL no email. Do i have to trigger specific dialogue with every potential love interest and shoot them down before i get this email? --Josephpate 03:50, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

That's odd. She sends you an e-mail when you've flirted with her at every opportunity, when you don't have any other love interests, and when the suicide mission is over. I also have her feed the fish for me although I don't believe that's a requirement. Freakium 04:23, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

I'm also having Joseph's problem. Though I get notified by Kelly of a new message in my private terminal, a subsequent check reveals nothing. 180.192.64.66 15:58, May 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think I figured out why it wasn't working in my case -- I replayed the suicide mission and the only thing that I know I changed was when you rescue the crew you get the choice to say "I wouldn't leave you behind" or "I didn't come for you", The first playthrough I chose the 2nd option and I think that pissed her off (was an accident, damn spacebar). After replaying and choosing the first option I got the email. --74.248.177.233 01:36, June 21, 2011 (UTC)

Had the same problem after my first run. What worked for me: After returning from the suicide mission (a second time), I first checked the private terminal in my cabin, so all old messages were marked as read. I then spoke to her first, comforting her. After that I made the tour around the CIC, spoke to Joker, Mordin, Jacob, returned to my terminal, she informed me about the message again - and there it was. --46.223.161.247 16:57, July 17, 2014 (UTC)

This shows that people have had problems getting this to work with just the information on this page, one person found what he'd done wrong, but that doesn't mean that they were all that, since I provided a direct reference, could you at least tell me what disputes what the source said, that you HAVE to ask about liking aliens. I have no desire to load a save game at the beginning of act two and play through the whole game (even powering through, at least 7 missions to the end) just to test this, I'll get around to it eventually, but since I've provided a source, I'd like to know what reason there is to believe that source is wrong. Addition: I checked the archive, and the walkthrough there includes asking "Are you into aliens" when recruiting Tali, so I think even this talk page agrees with me 109.156.150.173 21:45, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

Because the source you provided isn't a source. It's a forum/blog type site, and those types of sites are not acceptable sources. Those types of sites cannot be used as a source in this case and the other problem is that you are only are going for the PC version, when something like this needs a lot more than just one version. Lancer1289 22:39, February 23, 2012 (UTC)

OK, but you said "there are a few things that would dispute that." What are they? The talk archive here includes a walkthrough that confirms it, and no one disagrees with it there. 109.156.150.173 07:22, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Actually, one other thing, because maybe it's just a waste of time. Since you won't accept accounts from other websites, and "a lot more than just one version." has to be confirmed. Are you saying you'll keep reverting it unless I do another playthrough. Buy an XBox 360 and Playstation 3, buy two more copies of mass effect 2, and complete 2 more playthroughs? If that's the case there's really no point discussing it further. 109.156.150.173 10:47, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

'Yeoman' of the Chamber

Should it be mentioned (possibly in a trivia section) that Kelly's title and her last name form part of the title "Yeoman of the Chamber", which was a rank/position in a royal or noble household? See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeoman (while I realize WIkipedia is not the best source, I found several other sites that agreed with this)

So what about her first name Kelly? do we just forget about that. Yeoman is a valid naval position, and I honestly can't see the connection apart from the standard name trivia. Which isn't trivia because I don't remember the Normandy being a castle or noble household. Lancer1289 00:01, April 21, 2011 (UTC)

Well, Kelly does mean 'war' or 'aggressive'. So would she be "aggressive Yeoman of the Chamber"? GlassDeviant (talk) 12:21, September 7, 2012 (UTC)

Mass Effect 1 Appearance?

I was playing through the original game again, and I stopped at one of the dancers in the bar, in the first booth from the right. The dancer furthest from the door (between the Krogan and the making out couple honestly does ook like Kelly Chambers, and she's wearing that same outfit... Hrm...

Any chance that's an uncredited appearance somehow, of her either spying on things or moonlighting in another job there? CarrieWhitaker 08:34, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

I suppose you could interpret it that way, but it's more likely to say that it's just an identical model and identical skin. You have to realize that ME was originally released in November of 2007 for the X-Box, over 2 years before ME2. It's unlikely the character was even thought of when ME was originally in development. So, I would say it's unlikely, but bottom line being, if you want to interpret it that way, go ahead. Tanooki1432 16:29, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah she doesn't appear in ME. The outfit is even used in ME2 and frankly you can't base appearances on similar outfits as they are quite common in video games. Lancer1289 17:13, May 28, 2011 (UTC)

Appearance in ME3.

In my game Kelly has yet to appear on the Citadel. She did survive the Suicide Mission, and we were on good terms in ME2 - though I believe she only shows up if you had that dinner with her. We need more information before it's conclusive, though.

Yuoaman 18:53, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

She may not show up for a while because it took some time for her to show up for me. Lancer1289 18:55, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

I'm in the middle of the genophage arc, and the cure has been synthesized. But still no Kelly. Yuoaman 18:58, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

Are there any people with multiple saves that would be able to verify this? I only have the one. Yuoaman 22:31, March 8, 2012 (UTC)

Where is she supposed to show up the first time? I've been scouring the Citadel for her. Only mission I have left to do in genophage arc is Priority: Tuchanka and she still hasn't shown, but I don't know if I'm looking in the wrong places (or missing the exact spot) or if it's a problem of her simply not appearing. 99.46.197.150 03:55, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

She's supposed to appear down on the docking bay where the refugee camp is, with the medical clinic area. If she isn't listed on the map then she isn't there. Yuoaman 04:12, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Definitely not there for me. Checked at least three times. As I have finished all side missions, is there anything I can do to trigger her appearance? I don't want to do Priority: Tuchanka until I find her, since I can't go backs to the Citadel to find her afterwards. For reference purposes, my ME2 save I rescued her on SM, but only talked to her a little bit (though I was always friendly). Could that be related?99.46.197.150 04:31, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

It's been confirmed that Kelly will only appear if you had dinner with her by a dev here: [1]. Yuoaman 09:39, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

Dang, guess I wasted an hour. Might I suggest that her starting location and the conditions for her appearance be added to her page? It would have saved me a lot of trouble, and may well help others with that same problem. 99.46.197.150 13:56, March 9, 2012 (UTC)

She can be found in the Refurbished docks. She tells you about how she is having nightmares about the collector experience, and you can comfort her for a paragon action. Multiple visits can bring up dialog about what she's doing.

For me, she only appeared juuuust before Tuchanka, AFTER I did the last possible mission left. Last possible second. Either her appearance is tied to some side quest and I left that not done, or she randomly appears at some point and there is some code in place so random () doesn't kill her. IMNdi50160 04:11, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Also, trivia: If FemShep joins the new yeoman in the shower, after a while she says "I'm not going to feed your fish if that's [noise drowned her out in my game]". This is clearly a reference to Shep having romanced Kelly before, as in ME3 there is no feeding of fish, there's a VI for that. I am bad at wiki edits, could someone add a trivia section with this info? IMNdi50160 04:11, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Spoiler She perishes in the cerebus assualt on the citadal, though oddly enough you cannot attend any form of funeral. 115.188.190.149 01:32, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

"If Shepard talks to Kelly after she changes her name to Felicia, she will tell you that the Illusive Man ordered her to spy on Shepard." That's what it currently says in the wiki. It's not entirely correct. When you ask her again after she reappear (2nd citadel visit) you can inquire about her hidden agenda aboard the Normandy regardless of whether you tell her to change her name. On my first playthrough she was killed in the Cerberus assault but I still received her confession. 66.91.254.69 05:34, March 11, 2012 (UTC)

Suicide Sadness?

I don't know about everyone out out there, but when I read about how you can (indirectly) force her to take her own life out of depression I felt a wave of sadness, which surprised me, considering that I didn't have that much of an emotional connection to her, anyone else share this? TheRealTerminal 04:01, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Topics like this belong elsewhere as this is not what talk pages are for. Take things like this to the forums or a blog post. Lancer1289 12:15, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

Lancer, we have discussed this, and I differ in opinion. TheRealTerminal 02:35, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

You can differ all you want. It's community policy. Your opinion holds no weight. Talk pages are for the article. What you are discussing belongs on the forums.--Xaero Dumort 02:47, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

I concur. Please take the discussion to the forums or on your own blog. — Teugene (Talk) 02:56, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Still this needs to be mentioned somewhere on the page as right now there is no reference to the decision tree that leads her to kill herself. IRMacGuyver (talk) 06:11, April 18, 2018 (UTC)

Romance in Mass Effect 3

I think unlike what the article says, you need to have Kelly danced for you in Mass Effect 2 in order to pursue the romance. Just having the dinner is not sufficient. It's possible to have dinner with Kelly in ME2 without receiving the email to ask her up to the cabin. All that is required is to choose a "rude" conversation option with her once but then be friendly with her afterwards and you would be able to have dinner with her without receiving the email after the suicide mission (I know that from one of my playthroughs. I was trying to be renegade and didn't realise it would ruin any romance prospect with Kelly if I have chosen one of those "rude" options even once - and yes, I did ask her if she was into aliens and talked to her immediately after the suicide mission).

Admittedly I'm only at the point just before starting Priority: Horizon in the game; but I don't have a locked-in love interest and have gone to talk with her every single time after finishing a mission. She's only been giving me the "automated reply" since thanking me for saving her life after the coup. DrakevsShepard 07:43, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

EDIT: I can pretty much confirm that you NEED Kelly to have danced for you in ME2 in order to romance her in ME3. I've just finished Horizon and she's still just giving me automated reply. I don't think there's anyway I could romance her in my playthrough, even though my Shepard has had dinner with her, no active love interest and spoken to her nicely in ME3. DrakevsShepard 12:44, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Maybe you haven't reach the next Act to activate additional conversations? I'm not too sure about this although there was some mention about needing her to dance for Shepard to pursue a romance in other articles. — Teugene (Talk) 13:17, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think there is any more plot advancement where you are still able to visit the citadel beyond Horizon. I'm now already in London, so very sure the romance option isn't available to me. On a personal note I think Kelly is the most difficult character to romance in the game. I think the key for me not being able to get her to dance for me in ME2 was because I'd been rude to her at the very beginning. DrakevsShepard 09:28, April 9, 2012 (UTC)

I've had another playthrough where my Shepard had had Kelly dancing for him in the cabin, and the romance scene showed in ME3. So I'm quite certain you require Kelly to have danced in ME2 for her to be available for romance in ME3.DrakevsShepard 19:43, April 26, 2012 (UTC)

Can confirm this too. Was very flirty with her ("Embrace you" dialogue route) and had dinner in ME2, but romanced Tali before Suicide Mission so no dance afterwards. In ME3 talked to her after every plot mission, completed most of secondary assignments before Rannoch - still no romance sequence. Getting dance is a must - someone should update the article. 81.88.219.167 11:27, March 28, 2014 (UTC)

Kelly and Felicia

I couldn't get the cutscene in my first playthrough where she tells me she has changed her name to Felicia. After I told her to change her identity upon my first visit, she confessed about spying on me when I returned to visit her the second time. I've looked at some vids on Youtube and I have seen the cutscene where she tells you she has changed her name to Felicia. Can anyone confirm if there's some sort of a bug where the cutscene where she tells you her new name is Felicia won't trigger? DrakevsShepard 17:41, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Just guessing, maybe it only triggers pass a certain Act. — Teugene (Talk) 17:44, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Have never gotten the option to tell her to change her identity. When do you have to talk to her to get this option? I am at just after Tuchanka: Bomb with nothing left available other than Priority: Tuchanka. — GlassDeviant (talk) 07:08, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

first visit there and then. anytime you get free roam of the citadel before Priority: Tuchanka - [2] T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 12:04, September 6, 2012 (UTC)

Foreshadowing the future?

When I talked to her before Priority:Tuchanka mission, and after she confessed to spy on me for TIM, upon activation she said "I heard what Cerberus did during the coup. That's not the organization I joined". I assume she's talking about the Citadel attack, as there isn't any other event that would qualify. That was spotted on the latest patch. Can anyone confirm this? --79.162.221.244 13:24, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

i sifted through the dialogue trees from specific scenarios and found that kelly CAN say that line BEFORE the citadel coup for some reason. this appears to be a one-off chance like the 'Bolto' robotic dog renaming - but that was deliberate and this looks like more of a gigantic oversight. never happened to me yet (nor the bolto thing) so i can't really say if it's really true, a bug or something else (i misinterpreted). T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 14:18, September 15, 2012 (UTC)

"Change Identity" in ME3

How many times do you need to talk to Kelly before the "Change Identity" dialogue appears in ME3, and by which point/mission must this dialogue occur to keep her alive? The ME3 section lists several conversation subjects but does not mention when this one can/should occur. Also, if you do convince her to change her identity, (1) do you need to interact with her again to see "Felicia" to confirm that she actually changed her identity (or is telling her to do so enough?), and (2) can you still interact with her on the Citadel after telling her to change her identity, or does she disappear until after the Cerberus attack?

I imagine much of this is obvious for someone who has actually played the game, but the structure (equivalent to "now that you're beyond the point of no return, you should have already done this thing we didn't mention before") bugged me. Dalton Imperial (talk) 01:42, April 10, 2013 (UTC)

Kelly's face ME2 to ME3

Is it just me or does Kelly look like her face completely changed models from ME2 to ME3? It seems like much more than the obvious "hairstyle change". Different facial structure and eye shape. I'd vaguely noticed this before but I just started an ME3 playthrough right off the end of an ME2 playthrough and it was quite a shock. I'm not sure there's any way to confirm a real model change, but wanted to check if anyone had heard anything. Cattlesquat (talk) 15:07, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

A few other characters have had facial overhauls for ME3. Kirrahe, Khalisah and Aethyta all spring to mind as well. Even Anderson as well I think. It's just an artistic choice by the designers I think. Garhdo (talk) 21:49, April 14, 2013 (UTC)

Actually, we had a workflow issue where character textures didn't transfer over from ME2 to ME3 properly (even had issue with some player character faces not transferring properly, though that was later patched). We tried to get the faces as close as possible, but some like Kelly didn't really work too well. We tried our best. --Dustums (talk) 16:44, February 17, 2017 (UTC)

Friendly Kelly: Dinner, Fish & no Show

It should also maybe be noted, that, it's possible to develop a platonic/friendly relationship with Kelly (including dinner + feeding fish option) without flirting/romance - in which case she never sends Shepard the message to invite her up to the cabin after the Suicide Mission, even if Shepard is not romantically involved with anyone. This is particularly interesting for players interested in having her solely feed the fish (and encounter her in ME3), while remaining single and not *having to* flirt with her.

According to a post by Dusty Everman (who wrote Kelly), whatever happened in Shepard's cabin during that dinner can be much left to imagination, but, flirty or friendly is dependant on how Shepard approached things ("I'd embrace you = flirty; "I'd catch you"= friendly), as well as other dialogue (i.e don't be rude to her, obviously). Wheter she sends you the message (or not) is also dependant on the kind of relationship you built with her. Had dinner together up in Shepard's cabin, she's offered to feed your fish, but no kinky email (even though you're single)? It can be assumed they just talked, or played chess during that fade to black dinner sequence. Why would she send her friend such a message, when that was not their relationship? :p

Notes: The dialogue doesn't change *dramatically* between friendly/flirty. And Kasumi still gives you the same line, assuming/acknowleding a relationship depending entirely on wheter they had dinner or not, no distinction there (but then again Kasumi is known for not recognizing certain flags rigth - i.e she may comment on a (female) Shepard's break-up with Jacob, when they never broke up...) - the fact that Kelly doesn't send you the message should be evidence enough, but more importantly, a romance with Kelly in ME3 can only be pursued IF initiated in ME2 - otherwise she will just be friendly and eventually start giving only ambient dialogue, giving no opportunity for romance whatsoever.

I'm aware that, this one should be tricky (not to mention, a bit tiresome, heh, I should know) to verify, across multiple platforms and so many dialogue options and variables to check. For what is worth, if there is interest, I could share a sort of "friendly dialogue path" for Kelly in ME2, from my own experience, though I think that would fit more appropriately in the forums, or a blog...

Something else (by Dusty Everman) that may be also worth of note: the conversation tree (that leads to "I'd embrace/catch/drop you", if repeated, may cause a bug. Works as follows:

-If you pick the "I'd drop you.", she goes professional and you can't even get back to the question again.

-If you pick "I'd catch you", you start friendly, then later pick "I'd embrace you", you are now on the flirty path. A later pick of "I'd catch you" still keeps you on the flirty path.

-If you pick "I'd embrace you", ou start flirty, then later pick "I'd catch you", you are now on the friendly path. A later pick of "I'd embrace you" still keeps you on the friendly path.

--IceQuinn (talk) 02:15, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

first, new topics go to the bottom regardless of content. second, links to dev statements please.

to the topic itself though i would think it's sort of intuitive which lines affect kelly's behavior. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 03:47, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Dev statements: It's been a while, took me some digging and I'm not sure I got it all, but as per policy is required, here goes: 1. Romance, how to: https://web.archive.org/web/20160731152013/https://forum.bioware.com/topic/75085-kelly-chambersspoliers/

2. Friendship, bug, statements, references...

https://web.archive.org/web/20160804192522/https://forum.bioware.com/topic/164711-kelly-chambers/page-3

https://web.archive.org/web/20160731151848/https://forum.bioware.com/topic/466539-kelly-chambers/

https://web.archive.org/web/20160804192643/https://forum.bioware.com/topic/75085-kelly-chambersspoliers/page-2

https://web.archive.org/web/20160804192622/https://forum.bioware.com/topic/75085-kelly-chambersspoliers/page-3

While nothing is really explicit and a lot is left open to the player's interpretation, my intent was to put out there, that, it is absolutely possible to follow a "friendly" path with Kelly, as stated by the Dev, to get the dinner sequence and have her feed your fish, without having to flirt/romance. There seems to be a general consensus that it is required and that much is not true. Might prove valuable for players who don't want to go down that road (for whatever reason), but would still like to have Kelly feed the fish and re-encounter her in ME3. From my own experience, (tested several times, single Shepard), as a result of this she does not send you the email to invite her up after the Suicide Mission, which means not a romance option in ME3. She will basically treat you the same as if you were romanced by someone else, even though you are not.

Following the "I'd catch you" convo - talk to her after every mission, just don't be rude (she responds well to openness and kindness) and after the Collector Ship mission, (if you have been friendly) you may say that she sounds more than professionally concerned, she'll say something about Shepard being more than a Commander, but her friend, she says she'd give EDI a hug if she could, you ask "Where's my hug"? and the dinner option comes up. Not once you have to say that "you'd do more than catch her", refer to her looks (Samara's recruitment), or hear from her that if there's any touching being done you better be involved (Grunt's recruitment), or anything flirty or alluding to more than a friendship. If you followed a "flirty path" you'll receive the email. If you followed a "friendly path", you won't. Both ways, you get the dinner + fish. If nothing else, might be valid merely pointing out that flirting/romance is not the only way to get that result. In the article, Kelly's offer to feed Shepard's fish is mentioned under Romance, when it is not necessarily needed. You only need to have dinner with Kelly to get that, and romance is one way to make that happen.

Like I said, this might be tricky to verify, as required. But if proven valid, possible and should it improve the article in any manner, I'll be glad to have contributed even in the smallest of ways. Which reminds me: the article states, under ME3's Romance section: "Had Shepard invited Kelly to Shepard's cabin for dinner in 2185, the Commander may pursue Kelly if Shepard is not involved in a romantic relationship with anyone else." - and that is not necessarily true, I would put that under dispute. "Had Shepard received Kelly's email and invited her up through the intercom (for cuddling/ watching her dance, whatever) in 2185, the Commander may pursue Kelly if Shepard is not involved in a romantic relationship with anyone else." - that would be more accurate. Also pointed out by DrakevsShepard above, in this Talk page. Anything else I can do, please let me know. :) --IceQuinn (talk) 06:45, October 9, 2013 (UTC)

Wrong Daniels/Donnelly Conversation if Saved Kelly?

Despite Kelly/Felicia being alive after the Cerberus Citadel takeover attempt, Daniels and Donnelly had an ambient dialogue conversation saying that Cerberus had killed her. If this bug/error is common (I confirmed she was still on the Citadel afterward), is it worth a Trivia mention? Dalton Imperial (talk) 04:18, February 8, 2014 (UTC)

^ I can confirm experiencing this, on the Xbox 360 version; and likewise, Kelly was in place when Shepard checked the docks. Clearly a bug, but one which deserves a mention somewhere since I'm sure it has the potential to confuse many people. (SDoradus 20160805). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 125.237.41.214 (talk · contr).

Alternate Identity

I doubt this would ever make it into the 'trivia' section, but just wondering if anyone else noticed this: Felicia Hannigan happens to be an amalgam of two well-known red heads: Felicia Day and Alyson Hannigan. Probably can't be verified, but seems plausible, considering Felicia's connection to DA II and Alyson's well-known work in the AP movies and HIMY(Step)M.--Asari fan (talk) 01:59, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

we have guidelines on posting trivia. read them. stuff like these require sourced devconfirmation at the very least. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 02:46, June 16, 2014 (UTC)

Actually, you nailed it! I was the writer for Kelly Chambers, and that is indeed where Felicia Hannigan came from. --Dustums (talk) 16:49, February 17, 2017 (UTC)

I've Been doing a full 3 game Renegade Fem!shep run and decided since I read it doesn't count as cheating (Romanced Laira in ME1) But it doesn't allow me to progress at all, can you only go through it if you didn't romance someone in ME1 ethank14 21:18, May 28, 2015 (UTC)

Suicide mission death

So the wiki states that if you pick the choice to prepare better after the collector attack on Normandy, then you'll arrive too late to save Kelly as she gets dissolved. This is just wrong. Yes there is one who gets dissolved but it isn't Kelly. I chose the option to delay and prepare, and I got to the base in time to save everyone but that first unknown woman. Perhaps the death of Kelly only triggers if you complete a mission after you choose the delay option? 2.248.183.162 14:29, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

you're confusing gameplay mechanics with story mechanics. see the bottom paragraphs of Stop the Collectors#Save the Ship for that. for all we care you can stripmine all planets in the galaxy map and still that will count as "immediately going to the collector base" once you finally get going.

this is -not- a gameplay article. story mechanics are in play here, which means what was written is still perfectly valid. T̴̴͕̲̞̳̖̼̱͒͛̎͒ͫ̃ͧeͩ̈̽̈҉͓̝̰̼̦̫̤̀͠m̫̪̪̯̻͎̫̅̇̓̇͌̚p̸̙̝̓̓͌ͨ͆ͣͥ̂̕o͒̽͐̽͏̞̬̻͕͔͕͚̰͍͠͞ṙ̢̞͚͈̹̰ͨ̓ͭ̈́̌ạ̢̧̪̹̺̺̣̹̲͂͆̏ͪͨ͒ͭř̹͈͜͠y̷͍̻̜̹̼̾̽̈́e̵̹̼̟̦͚͐̈́͌͘d͉̲̣̻͉̱͗̅ḭ̷̻̆͋̆̓̔͝t̨͍̦̫̗͂̅̍̋̆ͩ͝ộ̫̟̬̳̝̲̾ͫ̒̿ͮ̑̚rͯ̎ͨͭ̄̿̽͛҉̠̫̱̠̘̘̲́ͅ7̩̻ͤͩͨ͝͡8̜̣̙͇̻ͨ͛͛̆͒̆̽̒͐͜͡ ͥ̍̉̃̇ͥ̓ͨ͏̕҉̥̹͓̗̤̠̖̤ (talk) 15:02, August 26, 2016 (UTC)

The original poster took issue with the wiki, stating that Kelly isn't necessarily pasted if you choose the "delay and prepare" dialogue option following the crew's abduction. In this he is correct, but if you try to complete an actual mission of any kind, Kelly is in fact liquidated. 122.62.79.114 21:42, September 7, 2016 (UTC)

Identity Bug?

It seems that for my second consecutive playthrough, I have never been given the option to talk to Kelly about changing her identity in ME3. Is there some secret prerequisite for this dialog option to appear? I forgave her for sending messages about me to the Illusive Man, but I got no further interactive conversations from her after that point. Even after visiting the citadel several times between missions, the only conversation I could get out of her was something to the effect of "I feel sorry for all these refugees." There was no option to say something to her.

Any help would be appreciated. Otherwise, I think I'll write this up as a bug.

98.234.186.158 04:24, September 5, 2016 (UTC)

Trigger for Dinner Invite

Didn't see this discussed anywhere so I'll just mention it here, but the point where you can first invite Kelly to dinner seems to vary quite a bit and it's somewhat unclear what the triggers are.

• With a female Shepard who romanced Kaidan in ME1 but is unattached in two, I got to Dinner with Kelly right after recruiting Samara, which was done before Collector Ship
• With male Shepards who were romantically unattached I've tended to only get to invite her after Collector Ship, but I hadn't done Samara's recruitment mission yet, I had done Thane's instead. I unfortunately can't remember but it may have been Samara's mission that triggered the dinner invite too.
• My suspicion is that completing Samara's mission specifically is at least ONE of the conditions for the dinner invite, aside from having been friendly/flirty towards Kelly. Just leaving this here to see if anyone can confirm. If true that would mean Kelly will never have dinner with you if you never recruit Samara; it seems weird for them to have tied Kelly to that mission in particular though.

Ale89515 (talk) 19:13, May 30, 2020 (UTC)

I can add to this that (as femshep) recruiting Thane was also a trigger for being able to invite Kelly to dinner, though I'm fairly sure (not 100%) that recruiting Thane as a male Shep doesn't trigger it. Perhaps the trigger is tied to recruiting potential romance options, but I don't recall recruiting Tali triggering it as male shep either. Most of my male Shepards have only been able to invite Kelly to dinner after Collector Ship. Ale89515 (talk) 22:55, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

Both my playthroughs of the LE so far have had this trigger "bugged" even though none of the interactions were missed.

Playing around with the flags a bit in save editor I think it has to do (atleast for Male Shep) if you had the talk about Samara before Collector Ship mission talk.

As unsetting the flag for Samara talk with flag still set for Collector Ship talk -> no dinner.

Unsetting flag for Collector Ship talk while Samara talk flag still set -> dinner.

So that means if you didnt recruit Samara and talked with Kelly about her before Collector Ship mission and the subsequent talk with Kelly, the dinner wont trigger.

Atleast when going for the friendly route, i didn't try this with flirty/romance yet.

I am not sure if this is a LE only bug, as maybe for post Collector Ship Samara to work you'd need to go with flirty route?

But I'm pretty sure this worked in original edition for me. Flachzangen 14:32, February 11, 2023

Requirements for Getting Hug (ME2)

Just an interesting discrepancy, if you ask Kelly "where's my hug?" she will hug female Shepards but not male Shepards. (Note: the hug is always after completing Collector Ship, if you're on intimate terms, to my knowledge) Ale89515 (talk) 22:55, June 13, 2020 (UTC)

That's odd, given that this video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LaechbFUsX4 depicts Male Shepard getting hugged after the Collector mission, and it's always happened for me after I use the option. --76.91.80.36 01:42, June 14, 2020 (UTC)

possibly I was mistaken. Either that or maybe there's some other trigger that may cause her not to hug you, I may investigate further. Ale89515 (talk) 22:06, June 14, 2020 (UTC)

well, on checking with a male shepard, I can confirm I did NOT get the hug, despite being on flirty terms with Kelly and picking the "where's my hug?" line. She just goes "Oh Shepard! I wish there were time to get to know you better." I think I know what causes the discrepancy: you get the hug if you've already had dinner with Kelly before Collector Ship, because the male Shepard I didn't get the hug from gets the dinner invite right after Collector Ship (and the hug line), whereas my femshep that GOT the hug after Collector Ship had already had dinner with her. This may be a trigger we want to add to the page if we can confirm, but the thing is, the exact trigger for dinner with Kelly (when it happens) is still somewhat of a mystery to me. It seems to be tied to Samara and/or Thane's recruitment missions, or just recruitment missions generally but I've had it work differently for different Shepards. I seem to get the dinner invite option earlier with femsheps too, for whatever reason, but that's anecdotal (see above talk section for more of my theories on that). Ale89515 (talk) 22:31, June 14, 2020 (UTC)

If I had to guess, at least one part of it might belong to Thane's mission, because I think afterwards if you talk to Kelly she mentions something about wanting to hug him, which leads to a dialogue option related to hugging and/or dinner with Kelly if I remember. --76.91.80.36 00:10, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

Yes but only femsheps get that line because Thane is a potential romance interest for femshep only; so Thane tends to trigger the dinner invite for femsheps I've noticed, but not for male Shepard. EDIT: recruiting potential love interests and then talking with Kelly triggers the option to flirt with her in some fashion (I think usually by using the left side dialog options that may appear) and after a certain number of "flirts" you can ask her to dinner. So Thane gives femshep a flirt, but not male shep; Samara should work for either gender, Tali works for Male shep (maybe). This is just a theory. Ale89515 (talk) 01:16, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

Gotcha. I'm still working my way through the Trilogy (for the millionth time) but when I get to ME2 I'll see if I can figure out/rule out anything. --76.91.80.36 01:54, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

Cool. What I would do is specifically count the number of "flirty" dialog choices that are triggered by specific missions until the dinner invite becomes available, so I think the missions vary depending on Shep's gender but are: Grunt recruitment (I won't let him touch you), Jack recruitment, Garrus recruitment, Horizon (when she asks about Kaidan/Ashley), Samara (I didn't recruit her for her looks we already have you), Thane, and Tali. Again my theory is only left prong dialogue options count as "flirts" but I could be wrong. Ale89515 (talk) 04:58, June 15, 2020 (UTC)

I actually think I've figured out why I always get the dinner invite later with my male Shepards - the reason is I almost always save Kaidan on Virmire, and you get an extra flirt with Kelly if your Shepard is opposite gender from the Virmire survivor, so my femsheps get an extra flirt with her after Horizon and my male Shepards don't. My mission orders are basically identical regardless of gender and I think that's all it takes to make the dinner invite happen later. Ale89515 (talk) 02:30, June 29, 2020 (UTC)

That makes sense. I'm still working my way through ME2 and haven't gotten to the Collector Ship just yet, but I've taken all the flirty options so far and Ashley is my Virmire Survivor, so my Male Shepard got the flirty options there when I said that I "missed Ash" and that she was an incredible woman. --76.91.80.36 00:04, June 30, 2020 (UTC)

After some testing, I've come to the hypothesis that you need FIVE total "flirts" with Kelly to unlock the dinner invite (with the invite becoming available on the fifth). I think it works like this:

I. first you need to get on the romance "path" with Kelly - these don't count as "flirts" to progress the romance, they are merely required to even make romance a possibility. These responses are:

1. OK Kelly
2. You are very loving (not totally sure this one is needed)
3. I'd embrace you
4. I liked it

II. After the romance path is locked in like this, then flirts become available and you need FIVE to unlock dinner; if you've had dinner before Collector Ship, Kelly hugs you. The possibilities for "flirts" are:

1. I'll protect you. (post Grunt recruitment)
2. I could use that. (post Garrus; femshep has a few extra options, not sure how they impact)
3. Virmire Survivor dialog (post Horizon and ONLY if opposite gender; I don't think an ME1 romance is required though)
4. Are you into aliens? (post Tali; I don't think male Shepard indicating interest in Tali or not matters)
5. Maybe both? (post Thane)
6. You're prettier. (post Samara)
7. Worried? You do care. (post Collector Ship)

• NOTE: after recruiting Jack there is some romance-ey dialog but I don't think it counts as a flirt for a few reasons: (1) you don't really flirt with Kelly at all, she's merely informing male Shepard that if you want to romance Jack successfully, don't sleep with her right away. (2) only male Shepard gets the extra romance-related dialogue with Jack and I don't think they'd want to advantage one gender of Shepard with the triggers for Kelly.

So that's my theory, let me know if you can corroborate. Ale89515 (talk) 18:41, July 1, 2020 (UTC)

In light of what you said, I decided to test out an alternate route. Here's what I've figured out:

1. Your hypothesis is definitely solid. I initially thought that Dinner + Hug was tied to Thane + Collector Ship and went with that after doing some other missions to trigger the countdown timer, but from what I can tell, it looks like you need to recruit Tali, Thane and Samara and do the flirty dialogue before going onto the Collector Ship in order to get the post-mission hug. 2. If you don't do the five flirts thing you mentioned, the hug option initiates the dinner instead, as Kelly says she wishes there was more time to get to know Shepard.

Conclusion: Kelly's romance arc is at least somewhat tied to the Collector Ship mission countdown, as you have to recruit Tali/Thane/Samara and do the flirty dialogues with them before the mission. At least, that's what I can extrapolate based off of your hypothesis and my own experience. --76.91.80.36 00:21, July 8, 2020 (UTC)

If my hypothesis was correct and you need 5 of the 7 flirts I listed, then it's possible to do only 2 of 3 of Tali/Samara/Thane to get the hug but ONLY if the Virmire Survivor was opposite gender and you get that flirt (this would be the only way to reach 5 prior to Collector Ship); was your Shepard opposite gender to the Survivor? Like I said way earlier, I was able to get the hug with my femshep this way, I did NOT do all 3 of Tali/Samara/Thane, only 2 of them. Ale89515 (talk) 04:43, July 10, 2020 (UTC)

Yeah, my Shepard is opposite. Male!Shepard w/ Ashley Williams as the Virmire Survivor. --76.91.80.36 06:34, July 11, 2020 (UTC)

Just checking in to add some additional info: I just played through with a FemShep and did everything the same as I usually do EXCEPT this time after recruiting Garrus, I did NOT take the flirty option (the top left tree, "I've been through a lot too, some of your therapy sounds great right now.") and instead took the top right option, indicating that I was interested in Garrus. Just as I suspected, I did NOT receive the hug from Kelly post-Collector Ship, though still got the dinner invite just like my male Shepard. So this confirms both that 1) the flirty options need to be taken and 2) the Virmire survivor being opposite gender does count towards the # of flirts needed for the hug. Ale89515 (talk) 05:03, August 19, 2020 (UTC)

--Dustums (talk) 23:01, September 21, 2020 (UTC) Here's some clarification. The Collector Ship hug moment is one of the spots where if Kelly is interested enough in Shepard, she'll ask to get to know them better unless she has already had dinner with them, in which case she already does know them better. Otherwise she hugs them. To "be interested enough", she needs to have the relationship available (i.e. Shepard didn't insult her or tell her to be professional) and you need 7 "flirt" moments. Flirt moments have been named above, and I think there are some very simple ones early on to back the numbers seen above. That does mean that Shepard needs to have recruited enough squad mates so that 7 flirt moments could happen. Kelly won't hug if instead she wants to have dinner with Shepard, and hasn't already had dinner previously.

Wow! Straight from the source. Thanks for the information. I don't know if you can answer this but I've been curious - was more planned for the relationship with Kelly in Mass Effect 3 that didn't make it into the game? Ale89515 (talk) 14:04, September 27, 2020 (UTC)

--Dustums (talk) 14:58, September 28, 2020 (UTC) Ha, I think you can say that for almost everything in the game; More was planned but cuts had to be made. It's a natural part of development when finishing a AAA game like the ME trilogy. We overshoot then cut and polish to get the game in a shipping state. So yes, especially in ME3, there was more Kelly written. I wrote up a whole section where Shepard could ask about how she came to Cerberus, and she'd tell her whole backstory. Those lines never got recorded though, but they were part of an early ME3 build that was accidentally leaked to the internet. For the life of me I can't find those line of dialog though, so if anyone has them, please let me know. Actually, Kelly was almost cut entirely from ME3. Every line of dialog, even after being recorded, had a cost to our cinematic design team. When the cuts had to be made, the powers that be made the hard call and said "Cut Kelly". The only reason that she made it into ME3 at all was that Ken Thain who was heading the Cinedesign team is a friend of mine, and he put in even more crunch hours to get her into the game as a favor to me, for which I am eternally grateful. That's why her scenes in ME3 aren't the most polished; They were done in haste under crunch conditions.

Thank you for sharing that information. When I first played ME3 (only about a year and a half ago, I'm a relative newcomer) it had the unmistakable feel of something that had been made by making many difficult compromises due to limited time. I often wonder what the game would have looked like had it been allowed to be made with the "it ships when it's done" philosophy. Despite that I still consider ME3 one of the greatest games of all time. The work you all put in is still being appreciated by many, years after. The Trilogy was a unique achievement. Ale89515 (talk) 02:57, September 29, 2020 (UTC)

--Dustums (talk) 03:15, September 29, 2020 (UTC) In game development, if you really follow "it ships when it's done", you will NEVER SHIP! It's never done. You'll always want to add more. Then other games leap frog you with newer tech. So you add more. No, no, no, you always have to cut something. If you didn't, then you'd be shooting short and cheating your players. It's just how games are made. ME3 was not unduly rushed (well, mostly). Games have budgets, and games have schedules, and passionate devs stuff as much as they can in, for better or for worse.

I know I don't only speak for myself when I say, if you guys had spent another year stuffing things in, we wouldn't have complained. Ale89515 (talk) 22:22, September 29, 2020 (UTC)

Finally nearly complete explanation, but let me clarify it a bit.

Game keeps counter of correct flirt answers in dialogs, someone named it Kelly Romance Score, 11 Kelly Romance Points or more are required to get email of course also other known conditions like saving her, no relationship, probably asking her if she's OK after Collector Station, travel and landing on another planet (or simply save and load), some say even finishing a mission, but save and load should trigger the email action.

1. Embrace you: +2 KRP
2. Not too flirty +1 KRP
3. You're very loving person +1 KRP
4. After Horizon about Ash It went well / I miss her, -> Are you jealous +1 KRP
5. Grunt I'll protect you +1 KRP
6. Thane Not sure if I find him scary or sexy -> Maybe both +1 KRP
7. Samara You're prettier +1 KRP
   

After Collector Ship

1. Worried? +1 KRP
2. What about me +1 KRP
   

Collector Station

1. I'd never abandon my crew +1 KRP
2. I didn't come for you -1 KRP! (It's possible to ruin everything here)
   

Dinner invitation 0 KRP, but it is the additional mandatory requirement.

Some popular believes seems to be myths:

1. Feeding Fish yes/no 0 KRP
2. Dialogs after Jack, Tali, Garrus 0 KRP
3. Dialog she's into aliens 0 KRP

Lanxiss (talk) 21:16, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Mind if I ask you what your source is on all of that? Not skeptical, just curious, as it seems to jive with what I've discovered. Recently did a playthrough where I purposefully ignored all of the above and didn't get the Dinner invite, but I'm still not totally sure what score is needed to get it, or the hug post-Collector Ship. What scores are needed to unlock what? My hypothesis is you need a score of 6 (according to what you wrote above), and 7 to get the hug (getting the 7th when you ask, "where's my hug?"). The only thing that surprises me is that Garrus's conversation doesn't count as a flirt, as Shepard says "I've been through a lot too, some of your therapy sounds great."

Also discovered that Kelly's conversations can't be skipped if you talk to her - they will always happen in order based on the order you complete the missions that unlock them, even if you don't talk to her right away after the particular mission (i.e. Garrus's convo happens even if you don't talk to her right after it, it WILL happen eventually as you keep talking to her). The only way you can "miss" one in the progression is if you don't leave enough missions left in the game to be able to talk with her before the Suicide Mission or the game is over, since only one conversation can happen at a time post-mission. Ale89515 (talk) 04:30, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Addendum to above, I think the one exception is the post-Collector Ship conversation, I think that can ONLY happen if you talk to her right after the mission, not 100% sure though, maybe I'll test that one next go-round. Ale89515 (talk) 04:37, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Oops on a few things. Just answered my own question and found out that yes, even the Collector Ship convo gets "saved" and queued up for any time later whenever you happen to talk to Kelly. Also as you even indicated Lanxiss, it's possible to progress through Kelly's conversations simply by saving and reloading a save, so I was wrong and you CAN go through multiple convos with her after just one mission. This means it's probably possible to progress through all of Kelly's romance in just one save/reload session whenever you want, as long as you've done all the missions that unlock them. Ale89515 (talk) 05:15, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I agree some source or proper documentation is needed in order to add this to the article. If strong enough evidence can be produced, the information could be added for example in a format similar to the Virmire Survivor trust level used in the final confrontation of the Citadel coup mission. Thanks to you both for sharing your findings! —Elseweyr ^{talk • stalk} April 12, 2021, 17:51:11 (UTC)

I spent way to much time doing some very extensive testing of dinner unlock triggers and discovered some things that unfortunately run counter to some of what Lanxiss shared. I tested with Male Shepard, by never talking to Kelly after doing the initial flirting at the start of the game to get on the romance path, and then doing a single save/reload session after recruiting all major squadmates and finishing Collector Ship to go through all the convos and control for various dialog choices. I was looking for the trigger for Dinner specifically, did not test romance unlock, however my assumption is that they follow the same "scoring system" Lanxiss detailed, though it's possible based on Dustums comments that the dinner unlock doesn't use the same "score" rubric Lanxiss shared, and only requires 7 separate "flirt moments." I won't share the full details of what I tested, but here is what I found:

To unlock dinner, based on the points system Lanxiss shared, 8 KRP (Kelly Romance Points) are needed (unlocked on the 8th, and if this occurs on asking for the hug following Collector Ship, the hug doesn't happen and instead Dinner Invite happens).

1. Embrace you: +2 KRP - assumed this is correct and required, did not test
2. Not too flirty +1 KRP - assumed this is correct and required, did not test
3. You're very loving person +1 KRP - assumed this is correct and required, did not test
4. After Horizon about Ash It went well / I miss her, -> Are you jealous +1 KRP - assumed this is correct, tested with male shep/Kaidan so not an option
5. Grunt I'll protect you +1 KRP - on testing, Grunt either is +0, or the dialog choice is immaterial only opening the tank matters. Somewhat surprising as "I'll protect you" leads to explicitly flirty dialog, but I really could find no evidence it has any impact on unlocking dinner.
6. Thane Not sure if I find him scary or sexy -> Maybe both +1 KRP - on testing, +0, seems to have no effect on getting dinner unlock; this makes sense as the dialog is not overtly flirty in any way; not certain if Thane might be worth something for a female Shepard as the options are slightly different, but based on Jack not mattering for a male Shepard, I doubt it makes a difference.
7. Samara You're prettier +1 KRP- on testing, Samara appears to be worth +2 KRP, not 1

After Collector Ship

1. Worried? +1 KRP - on testing, "Worried? You do care." appears to be worth +2 (this one was hard to figure out but I controlled for it several ways, such as by picking it but NOT picking "What about me?" to follow up. Picking any of the right side dialog afterwards doesn't seem to matter.
2. What about me +1 KRP - on testing, appears correct

Some popular believes seems to be myths:

1. Feeding Fish yes/no 0 KRP - assumed correct, doubt it matters but didn't test (dinner is already unlocked)
2. Dialogs after Jack, Tali, Garrus 0 KRP -
   1. assumed Jack doesn't matter beyond maybe just recruiting her as it's not flirty, picked bland response.
   2. Tali was tested (most dialog options) and doesn't seem to matter.
   3. Garrus however is actually +1. Definitely conclude Garrus matters, as I was able to unlock dinner from talking to him by choosing the flirt option ("What about me"); the side-by-side dialog options ("Garrus is tough" / "I worry about him") do NOT matter.
3. Dialog she's into aliens 0 KRP - appears correct, from both Thane and Tali (it has no impact)

According to what Dusty shared, unlocking dinner is also tied to recruiting a certain number of squadmates, but I think that only matters based on unlocking Garrus and Samara/Morinth's dialogs as Grunt, Jack, Tali, Thane, Legion, Mordin, Zaeed, and Kasumi don't seem to have any impact.

My only really firm conclusion is that there are too many potential variables at play to ever have something definite enough to put on the page, the only way to know for sure what the triggers are (and be 100% certain about what does NOT count) in my opinion is to look at code. Ale89515 (talk) 19:24, 15 April 2021 (UTC)

I was thinking about full romance with 11 KRP not just a dinner. After creating account I wanted to post in different section, but I wasn't able due to spam protection, after few days posted here, maybe bit wrong. Anyway I was playing with my saves and save editor, I don't have saves before some dialogues, so I was enforcing them on early save, marking first appearance option on companions flags, KRS is stored in Raw ME2 plot table int variables section position 198 as I remember, do we talk about the same variable? Yes even after Collectors Station it's possible to trigger most of dialogues by save and load if missed before. Lanxiss (talk) 13:57, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

You didn't sign the above, just fyi - but thanks for the info. I'd like to know what your source on the KRP values are tho, are you getting those directly from the int variables? Or some other source? And yeah, I'm particularly interested in the dinner trigger, and my ASSMUMPTION has been dinner is based on the same score rubric as the romance unlock as a whole, but that assumption could always be wrong. Based on what Dusty Everman said, it's possible that certain conversations provide KRP but can't unlock dinner, AND vice versa: some conversations can unlock dinner (if KRP is high enough) but don't provide KRP themselves. So far, only Garrus, Samara, Collector Ship, and I believe Horizon (need more testing) can unlock dinner. Ale89515 (talk) 14:42, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Oops I forgot, thanks tried to fix it :)
Yes directly from int variables, I was checking KRS value before dialogue make another save after and compare the values, however as I wrote, I was focused on romance as unlocking dinner is much easier and I thought conditions are the same, just lower KRS
Unfortunately I always unlocked all companions so I simply don't have a saves to check Dusty's theory, I will try to play with saves editor to mark some as not recruited, but I might fail to find all flags.
Lanxiss (talk) 19:29, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

OK, so in save editor I've unchecked flags for all except Samara, to trigger the dialog, 6KRP plus 1 for you're prettier answer unlocked dinner dialog, looks like total 7KRP is required, Samara ofc mandatory, but the rest should be possible to get without recruiting more.
Ofc there might been some leftovers but I guess we can verify everything playing remaster :)
Lanxiss (talk) 22:11, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Interesting. I'm fairly certain that I've gotten the dinner invite after Collector Ship before I've ever even recruited Samara. I may not have time to do any more testing for a while but like you said, Legendary Edition will be another chance. Ale89515 (talk) 03:09, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

I think that's correct, because it was easier for me this time to make tests on saves from my first playthrough, which I barely talked to Kelly at all, so I triggered dialog event after returning from Collector Station. Lanxiss (talk) 19:00, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Leaving this here to confirm I was able to get the dinner invite as a femshep without recruiting either Samara or Thane first; occurred right after Collector Ship; I had recruited only Tali; also, did not romance anyone in ME1, though Kaidan was the survivor. I DO think it matters who the Virmire Survivor is, even if they weren't romanced, so Ashley provides Kelly points for male shep, and Kaidan provides points for femshep as the additional "romance inquiry" is unlocked, regardless of whether they were ACTUALLY romanced. (PC, LE) Neo89515 (talk) 18:56, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Requirements for getting ME3 Romance

From some testing I've done, I believe I've determined there is a requirement for getting to romance Kelly in ME3 aside from the requirements the page currently mentions ((1)Shepard has no other major romances and (2) Kelly changes her ID and survives). You also have to talk with Kelly at least one more time following her ID change, i.e. you need to have the conversation where Kelly owns up about sending reports to the Illusive Man, and this ONLY occurs post ID change but pre-Cerberus Coup. I didn't have this conversation with Kelly but fulfilled the other requirements for a romance and never got the romance conversation with Kelly following the coup, despite being unattached and Kelly surviving. I only believe this conversation has to happen, I don't know for certain if the Paragon response needs to be taken where Shepard is understanding and forgiving of Kelly or not, but my hypothesis is it is required. Also as I believe another entry here says it may be worth clarifying on the page that "inviting Kelly to the captain's cabin" in ME2 does not mean dinner, but actually the dance following the Suicide Mission. Ale89515 (talk) 03:50, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

To answer my own question - obviously you would need to take the paragon option as taking the renegade option makes her commit suicide. I'm not a sociopath so I've never taken that option and forgot that it's a thing that happens. Ale89515 (talk) 03:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

Further discovery, it appears as though the Kelly romance lock-in only becomes available following completion of Priority: Geth Dreadnought, however it is possible the trigger isn't that mission specifically but merely some number of missions following the Coup (2 in my test case). Ale89515 (talk) 06:43, 21 January 2021 (UTC)

ME3 Headquotes

I don't like any character being left out in the cold regarding headquotes, so I'd like to see some picked for Kelly's ME3 appearance/romance. I'll have to look around for specific ones later but shouldn't be too hard; right off the top of my head, she has a quote about "I'm making a difference here." regarding her work with the refugees. Neo89515 (talk) 22:29, 14 August 2021 (UTC)

My picks (all verbatim):

• ME3: If there was ever a reason I studied psychology, it was to help people at a time like this.
• Romance: Times like these are when you need a love to fight for, someone to confide in. You know... a partner.
  • Now go save the galaxy for me, okay?

Neo89515 (talk) 18:25, 15 August 2021 (UTC)

Trivia Note Inaccuracy Regarding Face Transfer

The current trivia note states the following:

"Due to character textures not transferring correctly from Mass Effect 2 to Mass Effect 3, Kelly's face significantly differs between the two games. This issue has been addressed in the Mass Effect Legendary Edition, with Kelly's face in Mass Effect 2 now resembling her face from Mass Effect 3. However, if Kelly is romanced in the Legendary Edition version of Mass Effect 3, the photo of her that she gives Shepard still resembles her original Mass Effect 2 appearance."

The first sentence is correct, as confirmed by Seth Everman higher on this page. However, as pointed out by a prominent modder, the issue regarding Legendary Edition is inaccurate: Kelly's face is actually the exact same between the original Mass Effect 2 and the Legendary Edition of ME2, as evidenced in this pic. From left to right: original unmodded ME2; ME2LE unmodded; ME2LE modded with her original hair; ME2LE modded with original hair and lighting. And I think the modder who claims this knows what he's talking about because he's the author of the Kelly restoration mod, and he thought I could pass this along.--Loadingue (talk) 19:17, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

From your pic it seems fairly clear to me that ME2 and ME2LE are indeed different facial models (even ignoring hair)? Cattlesquat (talk) 22:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Then I can only tell you it's an illusion. If you use an image editing tool to superimpose one over the other, you'll see it's 100% the same (here).--Loadingue (talk) 23:08, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

I'm talking about the one on the far left compared to the second one. Cattlesquat (talk) 23:15, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

The modder can confirm that the second, third and fourth pics all have the exact same facemodel (since that was the purpose of his own mod).--Loadingue (talk) 23:22, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

But you said "Kelly's face is actually the exact same between the original Mass Effect 2 and the Legendary Edition of ME2", and that would mean the *first* and *second* pictures would have the same face model, which they don't. So maybe I'm not sure what you're saying in your original post? Cattlesquat (talk) 23:32, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

They do have the same face model and that's what I've been trying to show, I'm not sure where the issue lies. I've demonstrated that the first and fourth pic have the same model, and since they were all taken by the same person in relation to his own mod on the subject, he can attest that the second, third and fourth pic have the same model, meaning it's the same as the first.--Loadingue (talk) 23:35, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Sorry not trying to be difficult, but I guess I'm still not understanding what you're trying to say. You said above that "the first sentence is correct" so in other words Kelly's face differs between the games. But are you then saying that's actually *not* the case even though we have devconfirmation that the appearance changed? Because you're saying that the first and fourth faces are the same? (I don't actually see the first and fourth faces as being the same? YMMV I guess) Cattlesquat (talk) 23:46, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Maybe there's some confusion here. That Kelly's face is different between ME2 and ME3 is correct, and that's what Mr. Everman confirmed. However, my modder friend and I are disputing the claim that Kelly's face is different between ME2 and ME2LE, since the Wiki currently claims Kelly's face was changed in the latter when it appears it was not, only her hair.--Loadingue (talk) 23:50, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Gotcha, thanks. Cattlesquat (talk) 23:51, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

However, if Kelly is romanced in the Legendary Edition version of Mass Effect 3, the photo of her that she gives Shepard still resembles her original Mass Effect 2 appearance.

Are we talking about this sentence being the issue? To make this more clear, I was not differentiating between "face" and "hair" as a matter of semantics -- what I was trying to say is that the photo shows her original ME2 hairstyle even in LE3, even though in LE2 Kelly is never seen with her original ME2 hairstyle. Does that help clear things up? So even if the "face models" are identical, the hair styles are definitely different; if in terms of technical language "face model" and hairstyle are two different things, I wasn't splitting those hairs (ha) in my edit. So if the issue here is that I equated "face" with "hair", then sure, make whatever change is needed to correct. Neo89515 (talk) 23:53, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

No, there's nothing wrong with that sentence. It's clearly a pic taken in the original ME2, which it remains in both ME3 and ME3LE. The editt I'm aiming for would simply change the sentence "This issue has been addressed in the Mass Effect Legendary Edition, with Kelly's face in Mass Effect 2 now resembling her face from Mass Effect 3." into "This issue has been addressed in the Mass Effect Legendary Edition, with Kelly in Mass Effect 2 now having the same hair as in Mass Effect 3, though the face itself remains different between the two remastered games."

Oh no you went and edited it, but it's wrong...--Loadingue (talk) 00:03, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Okay, fix it then. My bad. :) Neo89515 (talk) 00:05, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Alright, done. Well, that was a lot of confusion. The modder offered one last comparison to close the deal. First pic is original ME2, second is ME2LE with restored hair. No lighting to make sure no visual tricks occur. It's obvious the only difference are the textures.--Loadingue (talk) 00:14, 20 February 2023 (UTC)

Updated ME2 relationship details

I just made an edit to improve some of the details on Kelly's romance in ME2. My main goal was to fix the section to mention that the requirements are more complex than just "survive and have no romance," which is what the article previously suggested.

I didn't try to add much detail, and I avoided anything I couldn't confirm, but there are a few things I would have liked to add:

1. The specific requirements to start down the "flirty path"; in particular, if you have to pick any specific options very early in the game.
   • For instance, what happens if you agree to call her Kelly the second time you talk to her (and what if that's after you say you'd embrace her)?
   • In that same vein, any other mandatory choices should be noted, like the one on collector base (though if that much detail is being added, it might warrant a new walkthrough-like section of the article to list the known requirements).
2. The earlier discussion of the specific mechanics of her romance in ME2 seems very useful, and could be the basis for the walkthrough-type section in the article I suggested above. It looks like some of the details are fully confirmed there, but others, especially around the earlier choices, are not, so I'm not sure we have enough information to add that.
3. In an earlier discussion, it was suggested that the dancing scene is required to get her romance content in ME3. This seems likely, and should be explicitly noted, but I'm not sure if it's confirmed (for instance, it could just be related to the same trigger that triggers the dancing scene, without actually requiring that scene).

Also, we have that note under "trivia" about how re-selecting whether you would catch or embrace her can change what path you're locked into. That should probably be in a "bugs" section, though I'm not sure if it belongs at the end or under the ME2 section.

Pointillion (talk) 19:05, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

It's been tough to fully confirm exactly how the romance works because it requires basically playing through the whole game and trying different things in different playthroughs, and other people sometimes report inconsistent things, but it's on the to-do list, certainly. Minor bugs or glitches can go under Trivia, but will take another think on it. Neo89515 (talk) 20:45, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

I can add my own update to this, that with some testing, it seems clear that eating dinner with Kelly is required to get the cabin invite. In other words, it doesn't matter how many times you flirt with her before or after, it's the dinner that actually unlocks romance. Even though eating dinner with her isn't romantic per se, it automatically becomes a romance without any further interactions with Kelly being necessary, if you don't lock in another competing romance, either before or after getting the cabin email invite from her. Locking in a romance AFTER you get the Kelly cabin email will prevent you from actually inviting Kelly up (because your new romance will become the new option to invite), but you can always get both scenes if you want by inviting her before the new romance. What remains somewhat unknown is import conditions for ME3 -- I'm not sure if Kelly is imported as a romance to ME3 if you lock in a competing ME2 romance AFTER unlocking the dance invite email, because that's a very uncommon path. I'm also not sure if you can "revive" a romance with Kelly in ME3 if you did the above, but then terminated that romance in ME3. I may be able to test both soon, but if anyone else has insight, feel free to post here. Neo89515 (talk) 20:30, 7 November 2024 (UTC)