Talk: Loyalty

I'm calling it: the achievements about gaining loyalty have to do squadmate specific missions.

Hardly a bold declaration, no offense or anything. That would in fact seem to be a logical conclusion, which is why the same supposition has been made on other talk pages on the site. Although, the loyalty achievements could also be gained at the end of a cumulative effort. Work up the loyalty of the characters over time with your words and deeds (similar to the Dragon Age:Origins system) and gain the achievement when you max out the loyalty. We'll just have to see. But until it's confirmed, any supposition is speculation. SpartHawg948 12:07, January 7, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty conflicts

There are no conflicts between squad mates. You can gain loyalty of all of them without influencing loyalty of others.

Yes there are. You may be able to with Paragon/Renegade options be able to gain loyalty of all squad mates, but both Miranda/Subject Zero and Tali/Legion can create problems. Example: After Jack's mission, she and Miranda will get into a fight. Only maxed out Paragon/Renegade points will permit resolution without losing loyalty of one squad-mate. Tell Miranda to back off, and if she's Loyal she drops back to Normal. If you tell Jack "Too bad," then you do not gain her loyalty. Sovereign 07:17, January 27, 2010 (UTC)

To clarify this, it's not after Jack's mission, it's after both Miranda's and Jack's missions are completed (you can do Jack's, then hold off Miranda's for a while), also I believe it's actually 80% to resolve the conflict *immediately* (keep in mind that any armor that improves negotiation does *not* work while you are in your casual outfit, at any time, including Samara's loyalty mission, and on the Normandy.) Jaline 06:26, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Losing loyalty via one of these conflicts does not seem to remove the (character specific loyalty-)achievement or the alternate outfit. --Winnetou 21:08, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

True, but they no longer count as loyal for other purposes. Non-loyal characters have a much greater risk of dying in the final mission, and any romance with a loyal character is terminated if you lose their loyalty. In addition, I strongly suspect that the outcome of the Tali/Legion conflict will have some influence on ME3, particularly if you side with Legion (since that is the option that would affect the Quarian/Geth status quo). ShadowRanger 17:08, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Points required to smooth things over?

Anyone know where your paragon bar should be in order to get Miranda to become loyal again? Vaile 06:19, January 31, 2010 (UTC)

I too would like to know. --AlexMcpherson 01:24, February 2, 2010 (UTC)

It seems to scale on some unknown variable. Might be how far along in the main story you are or your level.

I believe it's 100% paragon or renegade required to "smooth over" after you've lost loyalty with Miranda/Jack/Tali/Legion, you return to them after the fight, and give them one of the blue or red options, which only appear with *extremely* high loyalty, considering you need 80% to resolve the conflict in the first place, 100% is a logical point to need to "smooth it over" and make everything fine, they likely did this to make it "tough" to actually save your entire squad in the suicide mission. Although having more of a warning before it happens, would be nice, because you can finish Miranda/Jack missions both *way* before you have 80% paragon or renegade, even with using the 100% negotiation class skill, which makes it impossible for a normal play through to clear the air when it would naturally happen, causing you to purposely "delay" either Miranda or Jack. Tali/Legion is easier because you get Legion much later in the game. Jaline 06:30, February 5, 2010 (UTC)

Reporting the following: 80+% Renegade, wasn't able to negotiate Tali/Legion, wasn't able to smooth out Tali, was able to smooth out Legion.

I'm almost sure you have to be either 100% Renegade or 100% Paragon to smooth out the conflicts. Lordfrikk 11:23, February 10, 2010 (UTC)

I 'smoothed over' Tali/Legion conflict with about 75 -80/15-25 Paragon/Renegade...i think talking frequently to members of the team that have these disagreements also helps, wouldn't know that for sure though. Still haven't gotten Miranda and Psycho Woman to get along together. :P Any tips would be greatful

Exactly same here. Finished with Paragon Male Soldier, next passage as a Renegade Female Infiltrator - I'll check it out. See below on point scaling.

It has been suggested that if you have your class skill maxed out, while having selected the specialization that gives you 100% bonus to paragon/renegade, the Miranda/Jack confrontation requires 80% paragon or 40% renegade, and the Tali/Legion confrontation requires 40% paragon or 80% renegade. --Miiista 11:14, March 26, 2010 (UTC)

Bullseye here. Maybe not that much, but intimidating is what works better with two biotics willing to rip each other apart. However, I hadn't accessed Operative 4, let alone it's +100% negotiation subskill. I've got another idea here - what if the Death Mask helmet has it's effect onboard Normandy?79.139.166.221 06:32, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

I am infiltrator level 30, I have around 45% Paragon and around 95% renegade on reputatio bars... still both options grayed out when Tali and Legion were steaming just after the mission Legion: A house divided.... I think you have to be at 100% Renegade to have that way open... still not sure. --Chuchui666 (talk) 01:14, October 2, 2012 (UTC)Chuchui666

Tali/Legion Conflict

I thought I'd note that, having just completed the Tali/Legion conflict, I have some interesting results. I am currently level 27 with ~90% renegade and ~55% paragon scores. However, I was able to use the paragon save but not the renegade option during the conflict. This suggests that in this conflict, anyway, it's much easier to save with paragon than renegade. Anyone have supporting/conflicting evidence? --Crush. 09:42, March 8, 2010 (UTC

It was same as when I played it i had 90-95% Renegade and 50% Paragon and could not use the renegade optionIcemoomoo 10:26, March 8, 2010 (UTC)

I just had this confrontation with paragon and renegade both maxed out and was only given the charm option.Pretty weird, I guess you have to be on a nearly pure renegade(i.e. little paragon) to get the "this crap ends now" option.--Big Jack Shepard 02:41, August 30, 2011 (UTC)

Level scaling

It does appear that these confrontations depend on how soon you launch the missions.

Example 1: completed Miranda's mission as the first, but Jack's as last. No chance of Paragon resolution, despite the bar is around 60% full.

Example 2: Tali and Legion, both missions completed ASAP, bar at 70-80% - swift Paragon resolution.79.139.167.253 08:12, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Nope. I left Miranda's till before getting Legion, after a wave of recruitment and stuff, but still had the confrontation with paragon resolution. AlexMcpherson 14:27, March 22, 2010 (UTC)

Order of Missions

I believe this is not accurate. In my current game I got Miranda's first. Then Jacob, Mordin, Jack, Samara, Grunt, then Garrus. I recruited Zaeed, Garrus, Mordin, Grunt, Jack, Samara, Thane, and Tali in that order. I haven't gotten far enough to get Legion or the rest of the Loyalty missions yet. It may be based on the assumption of recruiting squad members in a certain order. My missions also did not come up in the alternate way that is mentioned in the article. Tali has not triggered yet after completing three missions after having recruited her. In my first game I did everything in the order as it appeared in my Journal when it was sorted by oldest, so I got the Loyalty missions in the order presented in the article. Getting Miranda's first is odd, though, since you can't decide when to get Miranda and Jacob. I'm not going to remove it from the article, though, because my situation may have been unusual. I'm on the Xbox 360 version, by the way. —ArmeniusLOD 18:43, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

I'm on the 360 too and in my journal they were in that order. Jacob's then Miranda's, but that my be random because when you come back from Horizon both are usually triggered. I just copied from what was in my Journal, also sorted by the oldest. Also Kelly told me Jacob wanted to talk before Miranda. Your statement leads me to believe that it is jsut random, but I could be wrong. As to the note after it, I did a few walkthroughs without rectriting squad members and I discovered that if a squadmember is absent then their loyalty mission is passed over until they are recruited. Lancer1289 18:51, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

I added a word but if Tali's loyalty mission has not triggered after three other loyalty missions then there are only two explinations I can think of, glitch, or Tali's is then pushed to the end. I can't think of any others at this point. If you don't get it then please let me know and I'll research what the problem. Lancer1289 18:58, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

This is only my second playthrough, so I don't have enough exposure to know either way. I also have yet to complete any optional assignments this time, too. I am trying to mix things up a lot to see how the game changes, like in the first game. I was just pointing out my situation and it may have been a fluke. I think that the information is solid, though, and will work to aid most people who will read it. Until there is some other confirmation otherwise, I think it should stay.

On the note about Tali, it may have to do with the fact that I was thrown into the Collector Ship mission after completing Miranda's and Jacob's loyalty missions. This is also odd because it's one more mission I was able to do before the Collector Ship than my first playthrough. I actually wonder if this has anything to do with installing the Firewalker DLC in the middle of this game. —ArmeniusLOD 19:04, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

That my be but I don't think anyone has enough experience with the Firewalker pack at this time to say for certain. The Firewalker might have added a glitch, the same think happened with the DLC Ostagar pack for Dragon Age. We'll just have to wait and see. Lancer1289 19:08, March 24, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty Mission Failure

There should definitely be some mention on this page of which loyalty missions are capable of being failed (wherein the mission is "complete" but the character's loyalty is still not gained). Thus far, I've encountered three:

• Zaeed -- When Shepard must make the decision between saving the factory workers and killing the guy Zaeed has a grudge on, if he chooses to save the factory workers and then fails the paragon/renegade check at the end of the mission Zaeed's loyalty will not be gained.

• Samara -- When Shepard sits down with Morinth in the VIP club, he's presented with a variety of dialogue options. The dialogue options that work are the ones that talk about what Morinth likes (Forta, Hallex, that band the guy was raving about on the way into the club, etc.). Any other dialogue options make you sound too confrontative. If Morinth gets suspicious, she'll get up and claim she's going to get some drinks, but then she never comes back. Samara's loyalty is not gained.

• Thane -- If Shepard fails to report in on the politician when Thane tells him to (if he runs out of time), the cutscene will play where his son murders the politician and escapes in his vehicle. Thane's loyalty is not gained.

As far as I know, these are the only three loyalty missions that can actually be failed. The rest are successful upon completion one way or another. Shepard Commander 01:58, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Tali's can be failed if Shepard turns in the evidence against her father. DTwirler 02:57, March 25, 2010 (UTC)

Does anyone know if failing Tali's mission still triggers the confrontation with legion after finishing his? (Turning in her father's evidence)

I failed Tali's loyalty mission by turning in the evidence and had no conflict, or hint of it, after recruiting Legion. 99.251.198.60 18:15, April 19, 2011 (UTC)Cavernio

Just to specify, I recruited Legion only after completing Tali's loyalty mission, so it is still not 100% certain if there would still be no conflict.99.251.198.60 18:17, April 19, 2011 (UTC)Cavernio

Alternate outfits

How exactly do I go about equipping these alternate outfits?

98.209.42.180 17:05, March 30, 2010 (UTC)Guest

Use Shepard's private terminal, go to the team status tab, then select the squadmember, then use the appropiate command to change their outfits. Lancer1289 17:08, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

You're also given the option to do so each time you select a team to go with you when you leave the Normandy. You switch with 'Y' on an Xbox, can't speak to the other platforms. ShadowRanger 19:04, March 30, 2010 (UTC)

Loyalty mission with Tali/Legion

I noticed that if you don't rewrite the other Geth, you have more chance of getting the right choices to keep Both Loyal.

In the Article, it says you can still use the alternate outfits if you lose someone's loyalty after a confrontation. I think this might be a mistake, because I lost Jack's loyalty, and I don't have the ability to change her outfit. Wasn't sure if I should edit the page or not.

Other users would have to come forward and verify that the same thing happened to them before we can change the article, that way we know it's not a fluke or glitch. I don't remember running into this issue myself, but it has been a while since I last did a playthrough of ME2. -- Commdor (Talk) 00:34, August 4, 2011 (UTC)

Required Paragon/Renegade for Jack-Miranda

If anyone still wants to know about this issue, here's my most recent report on quelling the Miranda-Jack conflict. (PC version; having done Miranda's loyalty first, and Jack's much later, though I think the order/time makes no difference; Hardcore difficulty): Level 30 Shepard, Renegade at a little over 60%, Paragon at 65%-70%: both the Renegade and the Paragon solutions were available to me. In the past, I've found the required Renegade score to be lower than that of the Paragon: 40%, or two full bars, of the Renegade curve seems to work (for Jack-Miranda). - I'd agree with those statements that say 40% Paragon is required for Tali-Legion (but a much higher Renegade score is required for them). AnotherRho 21:51, September 4, 2010 (UTC)

I play the pc version and am just before the reaper iff mission. i backed jack and have about 85% paragorn but no possibility to make peace with miranda. i am grumpy cuz i dont wanna play bazillions of mini missions to raise my paragorn level in +2 steps to get to 100% :/

Bioware employee explained the system some time ago. The game keeps another hidden paragon/renegade score. https://web.archive.org/web/20160101120935/forum.bioware.com/topic/118911-maintaining-loyalty-for-jackmiranda-and-legiontali-confrontations/ --91.152.240.160 14:50, May 21, 2011 (UTC)

Update

Redid the list of when character's loyalty missions become available, and added that Tali and Zaeed's loyalty missions can have negative outcomes. Before someone goes changing it, please notify me. InfiniteAmo 01:48, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

First no one need to notify you before making an edit to an article. You are not the owner, nor is anyone else for that matter, of this article or any other article on this wiki. If someone sees a problem, or has more information, or something to add, then they are free to do it. As to problems, I provided more updates and fixes to incomplete information and readded a paragraph that didn't needed to be reworded and was already accurate with the note below. Also it removed the order that they appeared in, which seemed odd to do that. I restored that paragraph and made the adjustments I stated above. Lancer1289 02:02, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

What SHOULDN'T I say to X Character?

Is it a good bet that all Paragon conversation choices are safe ones as far as Normandy/shipboard conversation goes? I mean, have BioWare writers fallen into their KOTOR habits of "Dark Side characters like you when you make Dark Side choices"? For example, I've noticed that since criticizing Mordin for the Genophage with the Paragon/top-right dialogue choice, he hasn't said anything new when I ask him to talk. And telling Grunt that "I might not be coming down for these talks anymore" results in more Paragon points, but a much shorter response than "Don't screw with Garrus!". I expect that the fact that they haven't outright told me to go away is a show in my favour, and that I'm probably just waiting for them to give me their Loyalty missions.

I expect this really only matters as far as the Romance options are considered, especially with temperamentals like Jack. predcon 16:25, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ok what is this asking exactly? Better yet why is this on this page? This page is about Loyalty, not about conversations. Lancer1289 19:27, February 4, 2012 (UTC)

Ending Romance

Does ending a romance result in losing loyalty also?

No. Lancer1289 22:10, March 13, 2012 (UTC)

Strange "Note"

Seriously, what is the paragraph "If you do not recruit a squad member, and the previous loyalty mission comes up. For example, if you have Samara's and you haven't recruited Tali, then you will get Thane's instead. You will acquire Tali's after you complete an assignment or mission after recruiting her. " trying to tell us?

The first sentence is completely wrong, grammaticaly, and the others are just puzzling...

How does it look now? If further clarification is needed, I can work on it more. Trandra (talk) 20:32, September 14, 2012 (UTC)

Lost Loyalty with no cause

After Legion's mission I was able to receive the fight between Legion and Tali. However, though I completed it using a high charm, I still lost Tali during the suicide mission. I am unsure what may have caused it.

I do know that instead of telling them an opinion on the war with the Geth or just leaving I told them I didn't save one of their people, I saved one of mine. Could this be a cause of the randomly lost loyalty?

This is the talk page for matters concerning the Loyalty article.

Loyalty is not the only factor affecting squadmates' fates during the Suicide Misson; see the ME2 Guide for details. Elseweyr (talk) 08:36, August 10, 2013 (UTC)

Increasing Loyalty of Team Members

How exactly does loyalty work in this game to put it simply? Do you simply need to do specific missions with each npc to increase their loyalty to you or does having them tag along with you during no particular missions cause them to become loyal? Or is there something else I'm missing? I've had Miranda tagging along with me in most missions and battles so far, but hardly brought Jacob at all. They each have 1 squad point and seem to have no other differences in regard to their disposition to me. I'm level 4 and haven't seen any specific battles, missions, or tasks indicating that either of them would become more loyal upon completion. I have recruited kasumi and I see her quest Stealing Memory, which I believe should increase her loyalty. So what I'm trying to figure out is whether or not increasing the amount of time I bring team members with me increase their loyalty. If anyone knows for sure a confirmation one way or another would be greatly appreciated. --Shark19 (talk) 06:34, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

The Loyalty Missions are specific missions that come later in the game. Kelly Chambers will tell you "So-and-so would like to speak with you" (Or you can find out just by talking to your squad members when you're on the Normandy between missions) and then once you talk to them, there will be a mark on the galaxy map saying "Help so-and-so." Here are the pages for a few loyalty missions: Garrus: Eye for an Eye, Tali: Treason, Miranda: The Prodigal. TheKingLerp (talk) 10:51, October 28, 2015 (UTC)

Do they need to be completed in a certain order to recruit all team members and achieve each of their loyalty for the suicide mission? --Shark19 (talk) 05:42, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

The order doesn't technically matter, but there are a few that make a certain dialogue tree easier. It only matters for Jack and Miranda's (Do Miranda's first) and Tali and Legion's (Do Tali's first) TheKingLerp (talk) 19:54, November 1, 2015 (UTC)

Capitalization?

So should "loyalty" and related phrases like "loyalty mission" capitalized or not? It's inconsistent on the page. Capitalizing helps make it stand out as the unique "status" or "game mechanic" making it distinct from the mundane use of the word, but the thing is there isn't that much "distance" between the game-specific and mundane everyday use of it. So I'm leaning (and the page also seems to be leaning) towards no caps.

Given that trouble arose when I unilaterally tried to make a blanket change, thought it best to ask first is all. Neo89515 (talk) 22:11, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

(Meant to reply here but accidentally went ahead on Discord anyway.) There is of course loyalty the characteristic and loyalty the gameplay mechanic, but I don't think it's capitalized in-game and the context should make it clear enough. Should not be capitalized IMO. Elseweyr (talk • stalk) 18:26, 12 August 2021 (UTC)