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Source for Justicar? Edit

Is there a source for any of the info (besides the name and the ME2 appearance, of course)? The video provided reveals nothing other than A) Her name; B) The fact she is asari; C) She has some rather scintillating dialogue. It didn't mention anything about her being a justicar, nor did it say the sassy language was directed at Shepard as a seduction attempt. If there's a source for that stuff, it would be awesome if it could be referenced. SpartHawg948 08:20, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

There is no info for the character apart from what's in the cast video. Justicar and who she's seducing is made up BS.
Someone has noticed that she has freckles in the exact same spots as Samara, not sure that's worth noting though. JakePT 08:23, December 12, 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I rewatched the video (a couple of times), and you are correct sir! No mention of justicar or seduction of Shepard. And yeah, I've noticed that there has been a lot of chatter on the forums about the resemblance between Morinth and Samara. A few have also asked if Morinth may have been the asari Samara was shown beating the crap out of. Interesting, to say the least. SpartHawg948 08:36, December 12, 2009 (UTC)

Squadmember Edit

I've seen on a stream that she joins, replacing Samara if you're Renegade. Anybody with more information(and wiki skills) feel like updating this? My understanding is that Samara dies in her loyalty mission for Renegades, and her daughter Morinth replaces her. Apparently, she has the same skills as Samara, except that her unique is Dominate. No clue what it does.

If you have high enough renegade, you get to choose to kill Samara or Morinth. If you choose to kill Samara, Morinth joins you and the rest of your party thinks that Morinth is Samara. The skill dominate turns organics against their teammates.

-during the loyalty quest, if you do it right and get morinth to bring you back to her apartment, samara and morinth have a super-saiyan battle thing. you get to choose which to kill. killing samara means morinth joins your team, pretending to be samara. dominate controls an enemy and makes it attack its friends.

Combat-wise I find Morinth to be superior to her Mother. But doesnt it kind of seem half-done in all other aspects? Identical voice/avatar and all thats different is a name change and different loyalty biotic. She even makes the same remarks as Samara during the course of the game. Even noticed a bug - On the Citadel where you can interact with the scenery. It asks if you want -samara- to say something, instead of Morinth. 15:50, January 29, 2010 (UTC)

Nope, she definitely does not have an identical voice except when she is imitating her mother. The rest makes sense for someone who is pretending to be someone else so as to avoid raising suspicions among other squad members.


I liked the first picture of Morinth's portrait a lot better. Why was it changed? [1] --Spoo12 00:00, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

While I'm partial to the current one of all those uploaded, all of them seem to be pretty low quality. As for why, I don't know. I don't know why Midey uploaded so many. Vegnas 00:06, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
Still need a better picture. The one currently is too close-up and doesn't match the aspect ratio of all the other character boxes. Matt 2108 01:42, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

Paragon/Renegade check, during Morinth's "Brainwashing" Edit

Apparently a full meter is not required. I was able to succeed with my choices with roughly 4.5/5. Paragon choices including supporting Samara adds up to +32, whereas choosing Morinth gains +45 Renegade. Winnetou 20:38, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Paragon/Renegade check (seconding what the other person wrote) Edit

I was about 80% full on Paragon and had all the appropriate conversation options unlocked. It might be worth updating the claim that a "full" meter is required if anybody knows exactly how much is actually needed.

>> Atleast with Renegade, 4.5 bars out of 5 is enough for all of the intimidation checks. One thing to note is that check your class power, as usually the other specialisation will give +100% par/ren, and the other only gives 70% or so. That extra 30% was enough for my adept to succeed. JohnEdwa 11:29, February 8, 2010 (UTC) <<

If you have questions about this topic or any other regarding ME2 hit me up

Doesn't it scale with missions completed or levels or something? Laexio 15:44, March 23, 2010 (UTC)

Paragon/Renegade Check (squeezing by) Edit

Apparently I suck at being a renegade. I saved Samara's loyalty mission for last (I had everyone else recruited and loyal at the time) and still didn't have enough Renegade points to recruit Morinth, even after respeccing my adept to a bastion.

If you find yourself in the same position, there are some last minute renegade points you can get just before you go to Morinth's apartment. When you're in the bar trying to get her attention, talk to the two turians sitting on the couches. They're planning some robberies later, but there is a renegade choice to beat them up. Once you've done that, stare down the krogan at the bar. He walks away and you get some red. Telling the bartender to give everyone drinks may also work; I didn't do it, so I don't know. These two choices earn you ~10 renegade points and Morinth's attention, which may be just enough to get you over the threshold. It was for me.

The two renegade options in Morinth's apartment before she tries to seduce you might also count towards your total, but since you don't see the additions until after the conversation I'm not sure.

The reason I mention this is punching the turian on the dance floor and warning the news reporter don't get you points, and if I hadn't done it, I would've been stuck with Samara again. She's cool and all, but I want the option of both loyalty powers.

Also, I can confirm that you need ~4.5 of your Renegade bar filled to kill Samara. A bit less is enough assuming you just got to Omega and can still talk to Nef's mother and do the bar scene.

I had ~4.1 bars of Renegade full, and I did not get the diologue option, so it must be closer to 4.5. 07:20, February 25, 2010 (UTC)Escho

Paragon/Renegade check (again)) Edit

On my first playthrough 4.x renegade was not enough to pass the third check. Tried several times with ~3.9-4.5 renegade to no effect. had to cheat.

on my second playthrough something in early 3s was enough. weird.

can add that the first case was in the end of the game right before the suicide mission and second one was somewhere in the middle. Requirement scaling is possible, it seems.. or it's just a bug.

I haven't gotten around to writing this for the morality page yet, but I'll write here what I put on Zaeed's loyalty talk page.
"Kim Stolz over at the Bioware forums recently revealed how the Paragon/Renegade system works in a post here. Basically what you're saying is correct. The persuasions later in the game become more difficult because the difficulty is scaled based on how many total Paragon/Renegade points you had the chance to acquire. If you didn't acquire all the available points then you essentially start to "fall behind" the linear difficulty progression. This basically requires the player to be completely Renegade or Paragon throughout the game to be able to pass the tougher speech checks at the end of the game."
ArmeniusLOD 03:06, March 2, 2010 (UTC)

Alright, now I'm pissed. First I tried to get the renegade bar as high as possible, but that didn't work. In light of that percentage thing you guys talk about, I tried going through the game again, replaying NUMEROUS conversations a few times to make it ABSOLUTELY SURE that I got as many points as possible, AND making it to Samara's loyalty mission as early as possible, and STILL I couldn't resist Morinth! What the f*** is wrong with this stupid game!? Isn't there a renegade/paragon playthrough of the game somewhere, 'cuz I highly doubt I did it wrong. The charm/intimidate system was so much better in the first game...

Morinth on Illium Edit

I am playing through ME2 for the second time, and I just recruited Samara and decided to browse the dock before returning to the Normandy. Has anyone else noticed that an Asari that resembles Morinth is lingering outside the Police Station by some crates? There is no way to talk to her, and no identifier, but the Asari looks like Morinth. By the way, if someone can fix the alignment on this, it would be appreciated. I'm new here. NatG83 18:54, May 18, 2010 (UTC)

Rage-inducing failed Renegade Check Edit

Just ran the Samara loyalty mission again, with all other characters loyal, and with about 4.5 renegade bars, and still couldn't make the check. Based on what I've read, it looks like it might not be possible with my character.

Edit: Yeah, I'd say I was right about that. I actually did the suicide mission, made every renegade choice I could, came back with 4.75 and still couldn't do it. I don't think there's any renegade left for me to do.

Maybe something should be added about needing to do this earlier on, after taking on only a few of the more morality-high missions?

Have you tried retraining your powers, you main class power (e.g. Comabat Mastery for Soilder) can be evolved in two different directions, one offers an extra 75% paragon/renagade and the other offers 100%. I found I needed more paragon points at one point in the game so I retrained my soilder from Commando (75%) to Shock Tropper (100%) and it filled up paragon bar to full. --Looq 01:23, May 28, 2010 (UTC)
Thank you very much for this tip! It definitely worked for me. I retrained my infiltrator from Assassin to Agent and my renbar went from ~4 to ~4.75 and I could finally resist Morinth! Thanks! 23:07, July 13, 2010 (UTC)

If you already had the 100% it does not work it just stays the same and if any thing it gets lower. Also giving Legion to cerberus gets a lot of renegade and so does importing you character from Mass Effect 1 it gave me 94 renegade in the beginning plus i started at lvl 2.-- 15:14, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Costume Edit

Are both of Morinth costumes the same as both of Samara's costumes, or is Morinths loyal costume different? --Looq 01:24, May 28, 2010 (UTC)

there the same

Paragon Check Edit

4.5 bars of paragon is not enough to resist the brainwashing and select who you want, and I did every paragon action throughout the game and had on the negotiation helmet, etc and still didn't end up with 5 bars by the end of the game (only about 4.80, with the shock trooper). So I think if you use charm options anytime during the conversations in her apartment (prior o the brainwashing) the game won't allow you to resist her dominate. Mictlantecuhtli 11:59, June 29, 2010 (UTC)

Not so; I've done it before, on both the Paragon and Renegade side. Don't know how close the bars were to filled when I did the mission, though. PhoenixBlue 12:55, June 29, 2010 (UTC)
"Kim Stolz over at the Bioware forums recently revealed how the Paragon/Renegade system works in a post here. Basically what you're saying is correct. The persuasions later in the game become more difficult because the difficulty is scaled based on how many total Paragon/Renegade points you had the chance to acquire. If you didn't acquire all the available points then you essentially start to "fall behind" the linear difficulty progression. This basically requires the player to be completely Renegade or Paragon throughout the game to be able to pass the tougher speech checks at the end of the game." —ArmeniusLOD
--Swooshy 11:42, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Sound Check Edit

Quick question... I've never paid enough attention to the random combat chatter to know this... If you recruit Morinth instead of Samara, do your squadmates still refer to her as Samara in battle when she is knocked out? I would expect them to, but I'm not sure. Anyone know? BAPACop 04:57, July 25, 2010 (UTC)

Seems to be no love for Morinth in LOTSB Edit

So, of all the squad members, Morinth seems to be the one who got the shaft in LOTSB. I can already confirm that, whereas Samara will have a dossier if you side with her, if you side with Morinth, no dossier. And, as I'm going through it with Morinth to see if the SB makes a unique comment about her at the end (which looks increasingly unlikely), I noticed something. When you go to get into the car to chase Tela Vasir, you have to choose one squad member to bring with you. If Morinth is in your squad, however, the option to choose her appears as "Choose Samara". Hmmm... looks like there might actually be one squad member the Broker wasn't keeping tabs on. :P SpartHawg948 00:24, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

And I was proved wrong on one count. Morinth does have a unique SB line, though I do appear to be correct in guessing that even the SB doesn't know her true identity. Intriguing, to say the least. SpartHawg948 01:13, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well you have to admit, Morinth is an Ardat-Yakshi, and the only people that know this are dead, hiding(Samara's other two daughters), and Samara herself, and we know she would never talk to the SB. Beyond that, Morinth wouldn't be noteworthy to anyone. And then theres the whole "she can live or die thing". MEffect Fan 01:20, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Not sure what you mean by the "she can live or die thing". If you're referring to the fact that you can choose to kill her, not sure that's relevant. After all, you can choose to kill Samara as well, but if you don't, the SB has a dossier on her, unlike Morinth. SpartHawg948 01:24, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Also, it occurs to me that the statement that the only people who know who she is and that she is an Ardat-Yakshi are dead or in hiding isn't really true. After all, even assuming that there are no doctors or superiors/comrades of Samara's who know about Morinth, and assuming that Morinth's other parent is dead or ignorant of the fact that her daughters are Ardat-Yakshi (which are big assumptions to make), Aria T'Loak knows she is an Ardat-Yakshi, and could easily learn her name from Nef's mother, and we know that the Shadow Broker has sources close to Aria. SpartHawg948 01:33, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Mirata Edit

Hey Sparthawg, should we add Morinth's real name? Which can be viewed in Samara's dosier. Sorry I kind of forgot the name, and I gotta go exercise. -- 20:13, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
If we had her real name, sure. But we don't. We have a name, with ambiguous dialogue attached to it that could suggest either that it is her original name, or that it is simply another alias. The bit in question is "I don’t want to lose you mother. Not over someone as small as Mirata, or whatever she calls herself now." Now, if it were spoken, we'd likely be able to glean the meaning, but it isn't. As such, it could be interpreted either as: 1) Mirata is Morinth's original name, but they suspect she has since assumed an alias. Or, 2) Mirata is an alias (or a fumbling of the alias by the sister) and the "or whatever she calls herself now" is a scornful/dismissive comment indicating that Mirata is itself an alias. Like if I was talking about Harkin in ME2 and said "Not for someone like Fade, or whatever he calls himself now" (with particular emphasis being placed on 'whatever'). So no, we really don't know if Mirata is an alias or her actual name. SpartHawg948 20:18, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Got it, we could at least put something like "possible real name Mirala", since it doesn't confirm, but still hints strongly that it is. Or take the more neutral route and say "Also known as Mirala". I don't think we should put them in the bottom though. -- 20:22, September 9, 2010 (UTC)

Well, given that it doesn't strongly hint that it is (my first time reading it, I assumed the second conclusion listed above), I don't really see the need to. If it were an alias she had used in-game, then sure. But it isn't. As such, I really see no more need to list it then I do to list Legions gamer ID, or Miranda and Oriana's usernames. SpartHawg948 20:24, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Also note that Samara herself said that Morinth has gone my many names in the past while you are prepping for her loyalty mission. This may have been her first, tenth, or maybe her birth name. We just don't know. Lancer1289 20:27, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Very true, you all make good points. However I would like to point on the limited contact her sisters have with the outside world, in fact they seem to have no contact with the outside world at all. If this is true, how would they know her aliases. SpartHawg, I respectively have to disagree with you grouping the name with online user names by Legion. I'm not saying put it as a real name, but right now it doesn't have any mention in the article at all. -- 20:46, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
So it's not kosher for me to associate what appears to be one of her aliases with aliases used by other squadmembers? Why not, pray tell? I can see maybe, maybe a mention in trivia (at the bottom) on the basis of the precedent set by (IIRC) Jack's page, but given that we don't even know if this is her real name, when it was used, or really anything about it, I can't see putting it anywhere else. SpartHawg948 20:50, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Respectively disagree, but very well. And this wouldn't be an issue if this didn't seem like another issue, but the topic will be dropped for now. -- 20:53, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
"This wouldn't be an issue if this didn't seem like another issue"? Not really sure what that means... any chance at some clarification? SpartHawg948 20:54, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Nah that's ok, I'm not going to argue further.-- 21:04, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well that's... disappointing. I can't really help the situation or try to see it another way if the other party maintains that there is an issue here but won't answer as to what that issue is. I'm just trying to help out and keep this article as informative as possible while making sure it's also factually accurate and consistent with site policy and other articles. If there is an issue here, or if this is an issue because it "seem[s] like another issue", I really can't do anything to fix said issue without knowing what it is. SpartHawg948 21:16, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks for the grammar edit, now it looks better. -- 21:20, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Sure thing. Just in the future make sure to add trivia bits above the embedded text stating "Please put all trivia above this text. Thank You". Given the clear precedent set by the aforementioned Jack article, I'd been just about to add it myself, but you beat me to the punch! :P SpartHawg948 21:22, September 9, 2010 (UTC)
Mirala is one of the many aliases used by the vampire Carmilla, in Sheridan LeFanu's book of the same name. Widely considered to be the first major victorian vampire tale, and an inspiration for Stoker's dracula. Maybe add this to the vampire ties section? Scrollreader

Reused Audio? Edit

While playing through as a Renegon (Full Renegade, ~50% Paragon bar filling), I chose Morinth. I've noticed that in some cases, she seems to use Samara's lines and voice (literally). This may be a case of my ears not being fine enough to discern the difference, however. Examples below.

- "Talk to Jack" on Illium (soft people, lots of money): Morinth responds just as Samara does, and I don't think it's the "imitation Samara" voice.
- Collector Ship: Same as above when I activate the dead colonists, and when commenting on the pods.

Obviously, from a gameplay perspective Morinth is a "secret" character and probably didn't get as much development time as others. Plus, being the Renegade option, as many people won't kill Samara/find Samara more useful on higher difficulties when Barriers/Shields make Dominate difficult to use, Morinth probably wasn't developed as well. This sort of thing might fit under "bugs" but I didn't want to add it in without getting some others to confirm my suspicions.

Sovereign 02:19, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

That really isn't classified as a bug, nor is it trivia because it is speculation. Also dialgoue isn't a bug or trivia to begin with as it belongs on a UD page. Suspiciions are speculation and not allowed in articles. Lancer1289 02:34, February 1, 2011 (UTC)
Well, excuse me Lancer1289, that's why I posted it here. I feel you are being needlessly rude--I'm just trying to figure out if Morinth is reusing Samara's audio files and thus seeking community input (this is an information resource, after all). That's exactly why I posted it here rather than putting it into the article itself: respect for the idea that unless something's immediately citable or confirmed, it doesn't go in the article. Then you smack me around for "speculation is not allowed in articles." That's why I posted this inquery here. If someone has a constructive response to what I posted, I'd be glad to hear it. Sovereign 21:01, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
And you do realize that I'm an admin and I'm merely just pointing out policy. People have a nasty habit of seeing things on talk pages, and then thinking that is enough to post in an article, then proceed to put them into the articles. I merely pointed out policy, nothing more or less. I frankly can't see how it was rude, but parts of your comment are also somewhat rude. Even if someone said the same thing, you do realize that we would need more than just a few people saying the same thing to even think about it going into the article. Devconfirmation would probably be the only thing that would get it in as without it, it would be all speculation, opinions, and interpretation of game data, which is considered speculation by our standards. Lancer1289 21:22, February 2, 2011 (UTC)
And here we've encountered one of the major limitations of text. There is no "tone of voice", per se, that you can use to interpret someone's attitude. In case you haven't noticed, people around here are skimpy on the emoticons, so this kind of thing happens. But this is a discussion for another time, another place. --Swooshy 21:30, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Trivia Edit

According to the trivia, Joker noticed a change in behavior when Samara got switched with Morinth, but I never noticed that. When you talk to him after Doppelganger, he says the same thing regardless of who you pick. Is there another time he mentions this?

New Photo? Edit

Sorry, but the current photo is terribly. Shadows are ruining everything, her jaw looks deformed. Can we get a new photo, plz? ^^

Feel free to take one then and then we'll see if it is something the community likes. Lancer1289 17:11, May 15, 2011 (UTC)

New Character Box Edit

I took several photos that could replace Morinth's character box image. and

I mean people don't seem to like Morinth's character box so I think that we need a new one. I may take more photos if they are not good enough. --Midey 12:01, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah I'm saying absolutely no on both. The first image, well it's dark, very poor lighting, and I will oppose that. The second one just doesn’t do everything for the box. The image is much further away and doesn't have the detail of the current one. Both of those just aren't any better than the current one, especially the first one. Lancer1289 16:16, May 27, 2011 (UTC)

Dialogue Bug Edit

Similarly, the subtitles bug appears if Morinth is picked as the Biotic earlier in the Collector Base. At the end of it it uses Samara. --Jono R 09:00, September 21, 2011 (UTC)

Could you elaborate further on this issue. Lancer1289 12:17, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry for the somewhat late reply. On the Collector Base: The Long Walk, if you take Morinth along with you as the Biotic, it says Samara instead of Morinth near the end. --Jono R 23:46, September 23, 2011 (UTC)
Trust me, there have been longer times between responses. As to the issue itself, if you could get a video of the bug and link it, we can see where it goes from there. What I'd recommend is getting the entire sequence where we can prove it is Morinth and then the subtitles switch to Samara. If we don't have that first part, then we can't go much further. Also, please don't upload it here as we don't permit videos to be uploaded here. A link will be fine. Lancer1289 00:16, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I can't take videos myself. --Jono R 00:18, September 24, 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps you can find someone to take the video, or find a video somewhere because this is something that would require a video for confirmation. Lancer1289 00:34, September 24, 2011 (UTC)

ME3? Edit

Okay so we see an Asari dressed like Samara in the new "Reinstated" Trailer, but is that actually Samara? Isn't there a chance that could be Morinth? I guess the Samara looking Asari does guarantee that Samara COULD appear if she survived, but if by some chance that is Morinth shouldn't that be mentioned? Or does that fall under speculation?-- 18:27, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

For now, saying Morinth could be in ME3 because the asari in the trailer could technically be either Morinth or Samara would be speculation. If BioWare doesn't confirm Morinth before ME3's release, though, I'm sure the game itself will. -- Commdor (Talk) 18:36, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Okay, thanks for answering (new account).--Nintendogeek01 18:39, February 10, 2012 (UTC)

Lie or MistakeEdit

Since I started the current dispute, I guess I should comment on it. I'm satisfied with the current version, so instead of editing, I'll comment here. Since there's no dialogue suggesting a trap, its all in the body language and tone. I and others think it's ambiguous, Lancer thinks it isn't. It seems to me that means it's ambiguous, barring a statement of authorial intent. 17:42, February 24, 2012 (UTC)

Where on Earth? Edit

When exactly on Earth do you find her? I just got through and don't recall any specific one that stood out. Did I miss her?NickTyrong 22:09, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

After hitting the Destroyer with the Cain, Morinth appears as a Banshee, jumping up to a ledge right besides you. 22:12, March 12, 2012 (UTC)
I'll reload and check. Thanks.NickTyrong 22:42, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, there she is! Thanks, man! This is also where I found out you shouldn't let banshees get close to you. They will pout their hand THROUGH you. Yeah. Good to know.NickTyrong 23:57, March 12, 2012 (UTC)

Humnum Shevail XD TheRealTerminal 21:27, March 17, 2012 (UTC)

Morinth enemy Edit

Is Morinth worth putting in the ME3 enemies template? The enemy is technically unique since it has its own name, but is the same as a regular Banshee. Same applies to Jack. --SilentCircuit 20:01, April 18, 2012 (UTC)

There is a discussion about this going on. Forum:Cleaning enemy characters pages. Lancer1289 20:52, April 18, 2012 (UTC)
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