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Are you sure you can let Zaaed die? At least after saving the workers you can't... --(unregistered user, 21:53, February 7, 2010)

It doesn't seem to be possible without access to renegade options. Those were not visible to my character (with a rather low renegade score), so I had to accept him back into the crew with the second dialogue step. Can anbody confirm this option for renegades? --Winnetou 16:43, February 8, 2010 (UTC)

If you choose the paragon path, after Zaeed shoots after Vido, his weapon's heatsink is ejected. Iirc, there is an interrupt, just after Zaeed argues with you that Vido got away, to pull Zaeed away from the sudden fire caused by the heatsink. I'm not sure if he dies, since I used the interrupt.

Choosing the renegade option on this mission (not killing workers) will gain Zaeed's loyalty. Iirc, choosing paragon (letting Vido get away) will not gain Zaeed's loyalty. Could be worthy of note. --Spoo12 02:44, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
Not really, for the simple fact that it's possible to gain Zaeed's loyalty and it do the paragon way. You just have to choose the right dialogue options at the very end. For some reason, punching Zaeed in the face seems to instill loyalty in him! :P SpartHawg948 03:03, February 9, 2010 (UTC)
In fact, the article already states that it is possible to do the paragon path and still gain Zaeed's loyalty. SpartHawg948 03:06, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

SpartHawg, the way you said that, I haven't done Paragon run through for Zaeed, so I didn't know that's what happens, but instead of being upset at reading it, it made me think of a running theme in this webcomic I read, mspa, a running gag is "Punch Zaeed in the snout to establish loyalty" (with Zaeed being for this situation, changable with whatever the current target would be..) Makes me think perhaps the people at Bioware behind the paragon path, were fans of it, but I doubt it, dunno if it's worthy of a trivia spot, likely not. Jaline 03:19, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

That's not bad! Not bad at all! :) SpartHawg948 03:23, February 9, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, just to reiterate, since you went ahead and added it as trivia. If even the person adding the trivia says that it "almost" seems like a reference, it's not. In that case, it's "almost" trivia. SpartHawg948 06:23, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Ehh, you are psychic (since you mentioned it earlier tonight), you got this response *just* before I posted on Zaeed's talk page hah :p Also would "almost" be better reworded as "possibly a reference" because I see people putting that all the time without a problem. Jaline 06:26, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Well, they put it without a problem if it's a valid reference. If it's something that seems like pure coincidence, or has no real leg to stand on, I'll delete it no matter how they word it. SpartHawg948 06:27, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

True, oh well, misunderstanding based upon what we had here, still a fun little note. Jaline 06:30, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

Problem with Zaeed's Loyalty mission. Let's figure this out. Edit

(I also posted this in GF if it seems familiar to you.)

There seems to be a bit of a discrepancy here with Zaeed's loyalty mission that I'd like to address. Up until a little while ago people thought it was only possibly to do the mission and still obtain Zaeed's loyalty by going the Renegade route (i.e., leaving the people in the refinery to die), but now it's generally known that this is not the case. There is also the method of doing the Paragon route, and with a certain number of Paragon points, there's an option to convince Zaeed otherwise and you'll still get his Loyalty.

However, the big problem here is that there seems to be wild variations on exactly what you need to do to get that Paragon option available. Saying 'you need to have enough Paragon points' doesn't seem to be enough, because some players report needing to have as much as 50% Paragon to procure his loyalty, some players report getting his loyalty the Paragon way as the very first thing they did, and some players even still are unable to get his loyalty the Paragon way, even after having as much as 80% of their Paragon meter filled!

So let's figure this out for posterity. What are the exact, or near exact requirements to get Zaeed's loyalty using the Paragon way? Is it something a bit more complex than mere points? The right conversation options? Or a glitch? Let's figure this out, because it has quite a few people, including myself, pretty frustrated!--Doop. 06:00, February 11, 2010 (UTC)

I just did the paragon path for the first time, had a little bit over 60% (tiny sliver of paragon over 60%, before the mission it was just under, by the time it came to the end, it was just over), and it worked fine for me. My options during the mission were a paragon interrupt to punch Zaeed after he lights the place on fire, taking the path to rescue the workers, then at the end I picked "Are you okay?" option (not the exact words sorry, but it was the paragon choice) then the middle option (not the option that was "I don't want you on my ship"), then after that I had a blue paragon option available (top left) where Zaeed agreed to put Vido behind him long enough for Shepard's mission. I do have to say, that I don't really like Zaeed's paragon path on his loyalty mission compared to the renegade path, the renegade path feels much better in accomplishing what is needed to be done to get Zaeed's loyalty. Got all of the loyal things from him, confirmed at the terminal. Loyalty animation, new outfit, inferno grenade, and loyal status under loyalty. That all said, I'm gonna reload and take the renegade path for this play, as I said, it just feels more "right" to go renegade for his loyalty to me. Jaline 04:30, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I took the same path as Jaline, but I did it earlier (I'm guessing) since I only had about 20-30% (roughly) Paragon, and almost no Renegade. It appears you might need to choose all the Paragon options in the end-mission dialog to get the chance to Charm. Once you do get to the point where you can charm/intimidate I don't think you actually need much Paragon points to do so, it's just a matter of making the right dialog choices to get that option. JakePT 11:39, February 13, 2010 (UTC)

I just finished the zaeed mission using the paragon path and the ship escaped eyc etc. But when I came to the dialogue at the end of the mission I was unable to choose the paragon option even though I have around 70%?? I have reloaded several times and followed the same path people say unlocks the option but to no avail. Somebody please suggest what I am doing wrong. P.s I did punch zaeed earlier in the mission. Thanks

I think the trigger for the Charm dialogue option is not a specific Paragon level, but a Paragon-to-Renegade ratio. On one playthrough, my Paragon and Renegade were roughly equal at about 40%, and I was able to get the Charm option to make Zaeed loyal. However, I reloaded, and saved Zaeed's mission for later. I did a bunch of missions and my Paragon was at 40%, but my Renegade at about 70%. I couldn't do the Charm option. —Seburo 20:10, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
Hmm, I thought it might be that too but I haven't had a chance to check. I suppose it could also simply be absolute difference rather than a ratio (i.e. once your Renegade exceeds your Paragon by a certain fixed amount, no dice). It could also be that it's discontinuous or otherwise non-linear: below a certain amount it's easy, but harder above. --DRY 20:51, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
I think it might have something to do with the paragon interrupt right after he blows the place... make sure to use it. Matt 2108 23:13, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
The punching out Zaeed only matters in that it affects the paragon level. I've replayed this mission a number of times through a single gameplay in order to find a way to kill Zaeed as the main article says can be done. I've been able to do Paragon dialogue choice without doing the punch, and I've not been able to do the Paragon dialogue choice even though I did the punch. —Seburo 23:50, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
I've noticed the required points are different based on how far through the game you are. Paragon/Renegade checks are harder to meet the farther you progress through the game. I would guess based on either main plot events or total missions completed. Could be easily confirmed using the storekeepers, Meet the paragon requirement early in the game, go renegade for the rest of thee game and keep checking back to the storekeeper without getting the discount, if it goes gray at some point, then we have an answer. Zadok0 23:39, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
I think you might have something there. I've been suspicious how with an imported character, all the early Paragon/Renegade checks were achievable, but then start getting a lot of greyed-out ones in the latter parts of the game. —Seburo 23:50, February 16, 2010 (UTC)
I've completed everyone's loyalty aside from the Justicar and I'm right before getting Legion. I'm at about 65% Renegade and 75% Paragon using the Agent bonus. The Paragon option was greyed-out for me....also noticing the same as Seburo...more and more of my options are greyed out as a progress. MelOne 12:58, February 20, 2010 (UTC)MelOne
 ::I did this as well. Left Zaeed as previous to last (Samara is last due to high requirement), and with over 80% the option was grayed out, even with punching and interrupts. At this point, I'm over 80% Paragon and over 20% renegade. On a side note, Is it me or is Renegade easier to rack in? Sometimes I get rengade for pushing people, but no paragon for being nice.
Kim Stolz over at the Bioware forums recently revealed how the Paragon/Renegade system works in a post here. Basically what you're saying is correct. The persuasions later in the game become more difficult because the difficulty is scaled based on how many total Paragon/Renegade points you had the chance to acquire. If you didn't acquire all the available points then you essentially start to "fall behind" the linear difficulty progression. This basically requires the player to be completely Renegade or Paragon throughout the game to be able to pass the tougher speech checks at the end of the game. --ArmeniusLOD 16:59, February 26, 2010 (UTC)

The last time I played I did Kasumi and Zaeed's loyalty missions first thing and had no issues getting the paragon dialogue, given I had chosen paragon options the few times I had been presented with them. --Semper Fidelis Tyrannosaurus - "Always Faithful Tyrant Lizard" 02:53, April 20, 2012 (UTC)

Killing ZaeedEdit

The article says that you can do the Paragon path and then leave Zaeed to die. I've replayed this numerous times with every single combination of dialogue choices and at various Paragon/Renegade-ness. I just don't think you can leave Zaeed to die in the loyalty mission. Can anyone confirm this? If not, I'm going to delete it from the article. —Seburo 23:50, February 16, 2010 (UTC)

Leaving Zaaed to die is definitely a possible option, but no-one seems to be totally sure on the conditions for it appearing. The only time the option was available to me was when I did Zaeed's loyalty mission AFTER completing the suicide mission. Additionally, though, on the same run I had a high renegade and low paragon score. So the conditions must be that either:

a) You have to wait until after a certain point to do Zaeed's loyalty mission to have the option available (perhaps even after finishing the suicide mission)

b) You need to a very high Renegade (or maybe Renegade to Paragon, or Rengade to level) score.

I'm guessing that if you've tried this lots, you have pretty much ruled out (b), in which case it must be that the availability of the option depends on when you do the mission! It would be good if people could confirm how far through the game they were when they were able to leave Zaeed to die. Nialia 11:26, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

Also, this makes me wonder if you can get to a point where your entire crew, and squad are dead (other than Joker). If you could finish the suicide mission with only an unloyal Zaeed left (might not be possible), and if Shepard doesn't die in this situation (not exactly sure what the conditions are for not dying - some people say requires 2 squad members to be alive, and others say 1, although loyalty may matter as well), then you could leave Zaeed to die in the flames and be the sole survivor. Nialia 11:34, February 18, 2010 (UTC)

I just tested this the other day. I had recruited all squad members (including Legion) & completed the IFF mission (and was able to go through the Omega relay). Just before doing so I did Zaeed's loyalty mission. Even after giving myself a near full renegade bar and empty paragon bar (using cheats), it still wouldn't let me leave Zaeed to die.

So I'm 99% sure that you can only leave him to die if you do his loyalty mission after the suicide mission. I will update the article to reflect this soon, unless someone can confirm otherwise. Nialia 02:01, February 23, 2010 (UTC)

Ecael here from the BioWare forums (the Shepard in those pictures is one of my characters). I posted that up on the forums to show that killing Zaeed is possible, but I've only been able to do it after the suicide mission with Zaeed surviving non-loyal (he's still tough holding the line). Sir-Ulrich tested the Zaeed loyalty mission after recruiting everyone else, and still was not able to get him to die. There doesn't seem to be a way to get a "red" (dead) character on your squad screen until after passing through the Omega-4 loyalty err, Relay. 14:16, March 2, 2010 (UTC)Ecael

Thanks for the confirmation. I've updated this in the article now. Nialia 02:17, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

I see that when rewriting the guide, the note about Zaeed being able to be killed has been removed. I hope that was just a mistake, rather than intentional, because it seems like very important information to me! I won't add it back myself, but I've made a note here. Someone else can add it back if they feel so inclined... Nialia

Wilhelm Scream Edit

Early in the mission, when Zaeed blows up the gate, you can hear a wilhelm scream. Perhaps this should be added into the trivia section? 17:16, March 7, 2010 (UTC)

Images required? Edit

Which images in particular are needed for this page? A shot of the closing scene? The facility itself when you first approach it? I have a number of shots of the level and I can take more if needed, all someone has to do is ask and I'll upload whichever is suitable.

Missing Title Edit

This mission was pretty much a repeat of what happened with Anderson in revelation, it was a really grim reminder of what Anderson had to go through and how Shepard has a choice to save the refinery or not.

Things like this belong in the forums or a blog post as this isn’t what talk pages are for. Lancer1289 (talk) 22:40, October 2, 2012 (UTC)

Paragon route Edit

I'm not sure if this is a bug or whatever, but I have 4 and a half bars of Paragon and less than half a bar of Renegade and I can't persuade Zaeed at the end, no matter what dialogue options I choose or whether I not I take the Paragon interrupt at the beginning. I've completed every loyalty mission at this point except for Zaeed's and Jack's, and I've completed Arrival and installed the Reaper IFF on the Normandy. I'm not sure exactly what the requirements are, but the game simply will not let me have Zaeed's loyalty.

-- 17:50, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Final BattleEdit

Simply ingloriously camp directly behind the door entrance in confronting Vido and his YMIR and troops, and carefully snipe and launch one head-shot after another, attrition sniping, and toss out psionic (tech/biotic) powers - either A.R., S.R., or long-range tech-biotic skills required here - the human troops die eventually - then the YMIR is caught in its deactivated mode graphically schizoid, as it hopelessly pursues your well-entrenched crew, passively not entering your area, and the battle is passably easy on Insanity. I purposely Widow-shot the YMIR at the beginning simply to act arrogant and had no issues. Then when all are carcasses, Vido is heard over the speaker taunting Zaeed when Vido's crew just got absolutely drilled into nothingness shamefully, LOL.

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