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Be sure to check out our Style Guide and Community Guidelines to help you get started, and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- SpartHawg948 (Talk) 23:35, August 15, 2010

Cleanup Tag Edit

Since I forgot to mention this earlier, there is a reason that the cleanup tag is present on the Dossier: The Professor article. Currently we are missing the In-game summary text. If, and only if, that is added, then the tag can come down. Otherwise it has to stay up. The same applies to Dossier: The Warlord article as well. Lancer1289 16:23, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Perfect timing! If I can get the text, I'll add it in.
Roger that. Lancer1289 16:33, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
I noticed your slight change. The form follows that of e.g. the Assassin. The first form followed that of Dossier: Archangel. If consistency is desired, I thought I'd point that out. --AnotherRho 17:40, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yes that format is more followed than the debriefing format, which apparenlty is only on the Dossier: Archangel page. Curious, however I also discovered many other mission articles missing the summary text. I'll look around for that, and get those summaries. Lancer1289 17:45, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
Cool. I just noticed the same thing. Justicar's is incomplete. I added the cleanup tag to Tali's page, which lacks the debriefing. The convict lacks it too. I'm sure you're checking these right now, so... --AnotherRho 17:47, August 27, 2010 (UTC)

Two of Three Edit

No not a Borg designation. I though there would be three for Tali's Loyalty mission. One for her getting cleared, one for presenting the evidence against her father, and one for her being conviceted. I don't think there is a fourth, considering the dialouge options, but I know there was three. Just confirming your suspisions, so can you get one where you don't present the evidence, and Tali gets Exiled? No one on YouTube convicted Tali. Thanks. Lancer1289 18:13, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I agree, there must be the third you mentioned (otherwise, a mistake would be made in the debriefing). The other way of exonerating her (getting the crowd on your side) surely doesn't have a unique debriefing. Anyway, I'll get the 3rd one in the next few minutes, since I have a convenient savegame to try it out. I also want to find out if that Admiral's post-mission email will differ depending on the trial, buuuut I don't know. Any idea about the emails? -- In the discussion on the Treason page, the first entry mentions that the email is the same, but it's old, and the replier raised a good question. AnotherRho 20:10, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
I'm not sure on that one. I have always gotten Tali exonarated, and only once gotten her convicted, in one of my very early games. However I can see it both ways, why wouldn't be the same, and maybe that Shepard gave the evidence might trigger something different. Lancer1289 20:30, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
In any case, I'm about to add the last debriefing. Afterward, I shall remove the Cleanup tag; if you think it should remain, add it back (or tell me to, either way). AnotherRho 20:43, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
Yea I don't see any reason why not. Sorry, watching a piano getting tuned is interesting, to me at least but I am a Music Major. Anyway there are probably plenty of email that are missing, so I don't see why removing it will be a problem. The debriefing text is much more important than the emails on the priority list. Things like that get added all the time. Lancer1289 20:57, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
Right. Besides, after allowing almost every way of proceeding at/after the trial with that admiral (except one dialogue option, during trial, if you submit the new evidence, where Shep. can say to all, "You should use the evidence"), I've found that Shepard is never even given a chance to mention to Admiral Xen anything about the data. Hence I suspect there is only one email. Also would make sense for ME3 possibilities (this allows the writer(s) to make room for any manner of geth-quarian conflicts). It seems to me, at any rate, that in ME3 the geth, the quarians, and... "dark energy", will play significant roles.
I always found the piano tuner's tuning forks remarkable. Tuners must have sharp hearing. AnotherRho 21:11, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
Either real good or they have to have perfect pitch. Either way it takes training, and a lot of practice to tune a piano. Remember that they have several tons of tension in those wires, and even going just a little too far can snap those wires, and that's no fun to fix. Just for reference a modern Grand Piano usually has around twenty (20) tons of tension in those wires. Lancer1289 21:18, September 2, 2010 (UTC)

Sovereign and the Council: moronicism Edit

The more I think about it, the more idiotic the Council seems to be. Grant the official story about Sovereign: it's a big, bad-ass ship, designed by the geth, controlled by a rogue spectre. This means that the technology to develop a ship of that size, with that firepower, capable of landing safely on a large planet and of facilitating the destruction of an entire colony, unharmed, is not only available to some people(s), but has actually been used, and offensively to boot. And against the Council itself, to boot again. So, the existence of other ships like Sovereign, would seem to merit a high measure of concern. Humans come along and claim multiple colonial losses--complete losses--and ultimately attribute the cause to "the reapers", i.e., big ships like sovereign. The Council rejects not just the claim that reapers are super-AI ships, but that they are even of concern. If Shepard were deluded by Saren, it would only prove that there aren't living starships.

Furthermore, even if "terminus pirates" or whoever were wiping out the human colonies in the Traverse, this would mean that those disunited terminus groups, of whom there was so much fear in Mass Effect, have become powerful enough to not just attack human colonies (Skyllian Blitz), but to destroy them (no precedent). And this after the humans have become a Council race. I.e., those groups would be systematically attacking and destroying the outposts of a council race. Kind of like rough warfare, conducted by a united enemy? This has got to be reflective of the most catastrophically poor judgments. --AnotherRho 06:22, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Race Name Caps Edit

Just wanted to point out that Reapers, Collectors, and Protheans are the exception to the Race Name Caps rule. See the MoS on Race Name Caps for more. Lancer1289 22:36, September 16, 2010 (UTC)

Son of a monkey. Read that before, but forgot the exception. Thanks for pointing that out. Still, "effectively titles"? And for the protheans--sorry, Protheans? I don't get it, but also am willing to abide by the convention: when in Rome, erm, Wikia. Thanks again. --AnotherRho 22:40, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah I didn't write that but in the games, books, and comics, all three are capitalized in subtitles and in documents that are read, so I think that may be the reason. I'm sure on the Prothean one but there must be a reason for it that BioWare is keeping. Who knows. Sorry had to duck out to cook and eat dinner. Lancer1289 23:21, September 16, 2010 (UTC)
No problem, all living things need to eat! Thanks for the info. ---(AnotherRho 15:16, September 17, 2010 (UTC)

element zero vs element-zero Edit

Check out Codex/Technology#Element Zero ("Eezo"). I can cite more in-game precedent, if you'd like. SpartHawg948 04:29, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, just about to write you a message asking what you meant. I checked the relevant sources first, to see if element zero were always capitalized. I meant that in a phrase where "element zero" is altogether serving as an adjective (as it is in the phrase, "element zero exposure"), technically it is a compound adjective and so is hyphenated, such as the many compound adjectives in the Codex Element Zero and Mass Effect entries. But did you have something else in mind? AnotherRho 04:34, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I think the way they handle it in-game is fine. Per Codex/Technology#Biotics - "Biotics are the result of in-utero exposure to element zero." SpartHawg948 04:36, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Right, "in-utero" is in that case a compound adjective (and, as such, hyphenated). That's what I'm talking about (nothing peculiar to "element zero"). Just to be clear, the reason why is (because it's correct grammar and) because ambiguity could result (e.g., take the Mass Effect Fields codex entry, which correctly hyphenates every compound adjective; except for this one ambiguous phrase, "while high mass compaction creates dense etc.". Does it mean, "high mass compaction creates" etc., or "high mass compaction creates" etc.? Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if there were a typo on the Wiki there). -- That said, in the sentence from the Jack article, there's not much of a risk for confusion once anyone has played the games or read enough site pages, since "element zero" is made up and therefore easier to remember that it is one thing, even when it is an adjective -- (heh heh: "does the article mean zero exposure to some prenatal element?"). I'll reword it as an indirect noun, as in the Biotics codex. --AnotherRho 04:53, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to agree if there was even one example of element zero being hyphenated in a canon source. I have yet to find one, however. As such, I can't really see applying current real-world standards and forcing them into a scenario where they don't really seem to apply. Same thing as what's going on with the Maeko Matsuo discussion right now. Sure contemporary Japanese standards may consider what she is doing taboo, but she is doing it. SpartHawg948 04:56, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
No, it's nothing to do with "element zero" itself, but any compound adjective. It's correct English grammar (which the writers demonstrate an awareness of all the time, as in those articles you cited), which I thought should be employed in any article written by editors. Anyway, I altered it to avoid any ambiguity. As for Kasumi, I think what you say was worked out (even more so, since it turned out not to be taboo).
Goodness; if this website (see the last example) were to be followed, one would have to hyphenate "prenatal-element-zero" since the exposure is being modified by that one, complex thing! AnotherRho 05:04, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
But, unlike the other examples you keep referring to, element zero is the name of a specific substance. The same cannot be said for the other examples you site. As such, if I'm not mistaken, the term element zero (which is a noun, not an adjective), is still treated as a noun, and from what I can recall, it's perfectly appropriate (even when using a noun as an adjective) to not hyphenate. ref (see 'How do we write the "noun as adjective"?') SpartHawg948 05:11, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Ok; but the website you cited does not discuss the issue of compound adjectives, but gives up ("There are no easy rules for this. We even write some combinations in two or all three different ways: (head master, head-master, headmaster)") and continues to speak of multi-noun adjectives as if there were no possibility for confusion (as though "government road accident research centre" could only mean "a centre that researches into accidents on the road for the government", and not, for one example, a center which researches into accidents on government roads [such as U.S. interstates]). In my studies of grammar (only fun when reading Fowler's Use of the English Language), being the name of a substance is pertinent only if it's capitalized (such as "United States official"). For examples of multiple nouns as adjectives, see here, "the Examples," such as "zero-liability protection" or "one-way street" (all these words being acceptable as nouns, though two of which in each example are serving as elements in the single adjectives "zero liability", or "one way"). AnotherRho 05:33, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) A couple of canon examples that may serve better than the prior ones, taken from the Codex, specifically Codex/Humanity and the Systems Alliance#Timeline: "Roughly 30% of the children born in Singapore after element zero exposure suffer from cancerous growths." and "An international effort to track element zero exposures begin." I won't lie, this type of grammar isn't my strongest suit, but to my (admittedly untrained) eye, the usages here would seem to be the same as that found in the contentious sentence from the Jack article. SpartHawg948 05:37, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
  • Also, I have to ask: "In my studies of grammar (only fun when reading Fowler's Use of the English Language), being the name of a substance is pertinent only if it's capitalized (such as "United States official")." United States is a substance? When I said element zero was a substance, I was thinking more along the lines of substances like steel, aluminum, and carbon. SpartHawg948 05:40, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Yes, excellent, identical examples (the SB Dossier on Jack, whence the sentence's info derives, does the same, but [unprecedentedly] capitalizes Element Zero). In those cases, the grammar isn't the best (in my opinion anyway, following the likes of Henry Fowler), buuuuuuuut they must be repeated when the purpose is one of quoting verbatim. Whereas in the sentence I wrote, I followed what I thought was correct. Nevertheless, the contentious sentence (I like your phrasing) was rewritten without incident, allowing this discussion to serve us (and any happen-stance readers) by exercising our intellects.  ;)
- Ha! Yes, habitual usage (grad school) got me there, where "substance" (loosely) can mean any thing which is one and can receive predicates. ("Now, mix 10 mg of United States into the solution in the beaker, then apply heat for 20 minutes, allow to cool and..."). AnotherRho 05:52, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) But that's my point exactly. We have in-universe usages of element zero in the manner you objected to without a hyphen, so applying current standards which are contradicted by this canon usage seems improper, at least in my opinion. The grammar may not be the best per Fowler, but it is the version that is used canonically, while the more Fowler-appropriate hyphenated version is not. That's what I'm driving at here. Again, like the Matsuo thing. We're attempting to foist current practices onto fictional (and future) practices that directly contradict the very practices that we are seeking to use! So what I'm saying is that current real world standards say one thing. In-game canon standards say another. The two aren't entirely dissimilar, so I can't for the life of me see why, when describing in-universe events, we don't use the in-universe standard. SpartHawg948 06:00, September 24, 2010 (UTC)
Sure, I agree, within measure. To be sure, I inspected the Element Zero article and found nothing to contradict my expectation of how one (in this case, I myself) ought to write in English, in order to increase the likelihood of the reader understanding. But I missed that one. The Matsuo thing is a little easier since, as you almost said, who knows how the Japanese would modify their (spoken) usages in the circumstances of Mass Effect anyway. --AnotherRho 06:08, September 24, 2010 (UTC)

Quick explanation Edit

Straight from the official source (link is the first one provided at the bottom of the vorcha article): "Gaining even a few vorcha gives a merc band a formidable advantage; each additional vorcha magnifies the gang’s combat ferocity exponentially." SpartHawg948 04:20, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Holy crap! Thanks for the correction. --AnotherRho 04:28, September 26, 2010 (UTC)

Tildes Edit

Yep, turns out I'd accidentally changed the default signature somehow - simple to fix in the Preferences menu. Thanks for asking. Bronzey 01:51, September 27, 2010 (UTC)

Ammo Pickup Edit

Check the Forum if you want, I posted some stuff. If you want delete this message. SoulRipper 20:45, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the notice! --AnotherRho 20:53, October 2, 2010 (UTC)

Investigations Regarding Alleged Power, "Morale Boost"Edit

Several enemies are said to possess this power. The following research pertains to this alleged ability, such as when it was ascribed to them (on this Wiki).

FactsEdit

1. Geth Prime

  • Nov. 27, 2007, claim added (by AdonisAleus) that they boost stats of nearby Geth.
  • June 10, 2008 (07:30) user Raith Mano adds note under "Use" (currently "Tactics") section that the G. Prime has "the Combat VI ability which boosts the combat prowess of all nearby geth" (this claim is, since March 2, 2010, in the Mass Effect section).
  • March 2 2010 (20:39), user Dch2404 divided ME from ME2, and added an enemy box ascribing "Morale Boost" to Primes. (New version of the enemy box added by Dch2404, Mar. 7, 19:39, corrected by Silverstrike 10 minutes later).
  • Note: One possible source of the "Combat VI" is the Primagames official game guide (presumably for ME). Page 178, a "Tip" for Geth Prime lists "Combat VI" as a power. (I do not have this Guide, but found a promo image of this page on their website. It is apparently from "Ch. 5, Virmire": link to the PDF that I found.
  • Note: The fan and role-playing site, Mass Effect Universe, has a "Codex" entry for the Geth Prime, which asserts that the it improves combat skills of nearby geth. See here. The page states that the info was taken from this very Wiki, and is dated March 8, 2010 (14:34 GMT).

2. Eclipse Commando

  • Feb. 11, 2010, page created (by Blood Nemesis 360 A47), with the assertion of having a combat-improvement ability similar to that of Geth Primes.
  • Mar. 8, 2010 (10:59), Dch2404 added the info box (etc.) ascribing "Morale Boost" to this enemy.

3. Blue Suns Commander

  • Mar. 8, 2010 (12:08), page created (by Dch2404) with info box asserting Morale Boost, and Offensive Capabilities including: "Centurions [sic] can provide a stats boost to nearby troops." (Changed to "Commanders" on Mar. 9, 2010).

4. Captain Wasea

  • Mar. 8, 2010 (20:49), Dch2404 added enemy box with info, including "Morale Boost" power (no earlier article version suggested she had such an ability)

5. Captain Enyala

  • Mar 8, 2010 (23:32) Dch2404 adds the enemy box, including the "Morale Boost" ability (no earlier version suggested she had such an ability).


ConsiderationsEdit

Geth Prime: The Prima eGuide for Mass Effect is said to have been released on Nov. 20, 2007. The very first entry (mentioned above, Nov. 27) could then have derived from that very guide. The "Combat VI" statement most likely derives from that guide: I cannot find the phrase used in many places; and used in this way (i.e., as something ascribed to a unit), nowhere else.

  • Obviously the mentioned fan site has taken their info on the GP from our site.

"Morale Boost": Dch2404 appears to be the only one to write "Morale Boost" anywhere.

  • The first ascription of it to anyone is to the Geth Prime.
  • The Eclipse Commando page predates claims of "Morale Boost". That page specifically compares the combat-improvement ability to that of Geth Primes. "Morale Boost" may then have been assumed for the Commando on the basis of the comparison.
  • The latter wouldn't account for why, later the same day, the Blue Suns commander was given "Morale Boost" (nor, similarly, with the two captains).
  • It seems that "Morale Boost" must have some particular source, since at any rate Dch2404 didn't ascribe it to any of the Blue Suns officers (several of which pages were made by the same user).
  • If the Prima Guide for ME2 uses the phrase "Morale Boost", or ascribes it (or its like) to any characters, then it could be the source. Alternately, it may be that user Blood Nemesis 360 A47 (who created the page for the Eclipse Commando) guessed that these leaders have some sort of stat-boosting power, by the fact that "they can actually be heard directing those under their command" (quoting the user in the first version of the article). But even if so, it doesn't help with the source of the expression "Morale Boost".

QuestionsEdit

  1. Does anyone have the Prima Guides for ME and ME2? Can they look up "morale boost" with any facility (if one has an electronic copy, it could be searched)? or...
  2. In the ME2 Guide, is there any info on the characters or types mentioned above?
  3. Although the Prima guides are "official" or authorized, how "canon" is one? Or in other words, how trustworthy is one?
  4. Does the Geth Prime (in ME) have the ability to improve other geth? Or...
  5. Is the "Combat VI" anything at all?

Any useful comments would be appreciated. --AnotherRho 23:40, October 10, 2010 (UTC)

Replies/CommentsEdit

Ok I can provide the information from the guide, which I broke up below for easier viewing.
In the Combat section of the guide on Page 55 it states this about the Prime.
"Type: Boss
Tactics: Tank, Support, Spoiler
Resistances: Combat, Tech
Weaknesses: None
Powers: Combat VI, Overload, Damping, Shield Boost, Geth Barrier, Radar Jamming 9
Notes: Combat VI boosts the combat abiliites of all nearby [g]eth through their networked intelligence. They'll shoot more often, more accurately, and do more damage." (Anthony, Brad. Stratton, Byran, Stratton, Stephen. Mass Effect Prima Official Game Guide. Roseville, CA. 2007.)
That's what I have on the Geth Prime for ME, so it appears to be accurate. As to Mass Effect 2, they don't have that same section, and they only have data on two of the five, the Geth Prime and Eclipse Commando.
Geth Prime P. 119
"Classification: Sub-boss
Powers: Drone Swarm, Siege Pulse
Defenses: Geth Shielding
Weapons: Minigun
Geth pimres are the deadliest of the geth foot soldiers. Primes can call in up to theee combat drones to supprot their attacks and needle a target while the prime fills the area with minigun fire. The Siege Pulse pwoer is a heavy attack that not only does extensive damage, but also temporarily blocks regeneration." (Browne, Catherine. Mass Effect 2 Prima Official Game Guide. Roseville, CA. 2010).
For the Eclipse Commando it gives the following information on page 143.
"Classification: Sub-Boss
Powers: Warp
Defenses: Armor, Barrier
Weapons: Combat Shotgun
Eclipse commandos are the most elite of the Eclipse thugs, able to flank and use cover. Their comabt shotguns are dealy at close range, but kepeing your distance is not without danger. Commandos can use their barrier and armor as fas as you can so you can counter with biotic and tech attacks of your own. A submachine gun is great for chipping away oth of the commando's defenses." (Browne, Catherine. Mass Effect 2 Prima Official Game Guide. Roseville, CA. 2010).
There is nothing about any of the others but that is what I have. I don't think this is an acutal power, but for the Prime on ME, and ME only, it seems to be accurate. As to the canon of the books, #3, they are authorized becuase they are also copyrighted by EA, BioWare and Micorsoft Game Studios where appropiate. I know that Prima does go through the games and plays them to get them accurate and for the maps. As to their accuracy, we don't have anything that has been wrong yet, and they usually are pretty trustworthy. I really don't want to comment on canon becuase I really don't want to guess, but they have been proven accurate so far, just a few small things that even happen here, like missed race name caps and things like that. Small things that crop up over time. Lancer1289 00:11, October 11, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Spoiler Tag Quote Edit

There is a discussion on Template talk: Spoilers (Mass Effect) about whether to change the spoiler tag quote for ME or to keep it the same. I'd appreciate your input in this. Thank You!--Effectofthemassvariety 22:15, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Welcome Back! Edit

I have noticed you have been gone for a while, and I misunderstood your comment as being snide on the Firebase Hydra talk page, so, in the interest of keeping good relations, I would like to be the first to welcome you back.--Legionwrex 04:46, July 9, 2012 (UTC)

Thabks, LW, I appreciate it; it's good to be Mass Effecting it again. And I'm all for the good! >-- AnotherRho (talk) 18:00, July 10, 2012 (UTC)

Re:Oldies Edit

Thing are going good with me, I have started to make edit storms on the wiki. I have notice the recent trend on the wiki of steroid-using new users who rack up hundreds of edits in blog comments within a few weeks, they are starting to annoy me a bit.

As to any recent blog discussions, the one I have enjoyed the most are Arbington and I trying to convince people Destroy is not the best ending, it felt good to get that out in the open.

I have actually not been playing Mass Effect 3, I have downloaded only one of the free DLC and my last save was on the Horizon mission of my second playthrough. The reason for this is that my X-box has been broken for the last couple of months, and now that I have bought I new one, I am really getting into playing Skyrim. I'm sure I'll play soon enough though.

P.S. Trying to win an argument with Sparthawg about Mass Effect is like trying to eat a spoon of cinnamon; it can't be done.--Legionwrex 03:04, July 11, 2012 (UTC)


"Trying to win an argument with Sparthawg about Mass Effect is like trying to eat a spoon of cinnamon; it can't be done."

QFT

Trying to find a source aside from the developers that satisfies Lancer is much the same. Lksdjf

Lets try to act adult and not resort to petty insults, it's not Lancer's fault, it's site policy.--Legionwrex 04:16, July 11, 2012 (UTC)
Hehehe... sure, Lancer can come across as a tough dog; but he helps keep the site tidy, concise, and full of more accurate and correct information than the opposite. Other wikis and webpages have so much flub or downright falsehoods (based on people's honest mis-inferences, alone). And so we can be grateful. Props be to the admins and to the care-taking editors.
Besides, we can always add some bit of correct info in a Talk Page, or even on our User Pages.
Legionwrex, I have noticed that blog of yours, but have avoided it since I have not yet completed the game with the new Extended Cut (alas, I discovered that Multiplayer is actually fun). And is a spoonful of cinnamon really difficult to eat? ---- AnotherRho (talk) 19:17, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
You don't even know, it's so bitter you have to wash your mouth out.--Legionwrex (talk) 19:20, July 12, 2012 (UTC)
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