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Revision as of 18:06, June 19, 2011 by GuerillaTech (Talk | contribs)

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Hi, welcome to Mass Effect Wiki! Thanks for your edit to the Shiala page.

Be sure to check out our Style Guide and Community Guidelines to help you get started, and please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Lancer1289 (Talk) 04:45, June 15, 2011

i'm sorry i'm not an admin, what i say matters little because i don't have a shiny badge to put on my chest.

Wait? They hand out badges? No one told us at this wiki. Of course your voice matters. Don't be hyperbolic here. It's just that what you say doesn't matter more than what others have to say. You seem to be operating under the assumption that it does, that you are right and everyone else is dumb or is lying. And remember, it was your idea to put it to a vote first. And site policy does mandate that, while an item is up for a vote, it remains in the article, so everyone can see what's being voted on in the proper context. SpartHawg948 08:16, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I appreciate you putting words into my mouth, calling people dumb and what not.i realize that even as we do this vote, i will still lose because nobody seems to flock to that page anymore, leaving me obviously outnumbered. I'd also like a link to the site policy as you must have seen, i registered that very same day i brought this up.

My apologies. I misremembered. You actually said anyone who disagreed with you is lying or confused. Not that different from lying or dumb, but even a small difference is still a difference. As for your pessimism regarding the voting, well, you were the one who requested it. And as for the applicable policy, it falls under the section on Deleting, Moving, Merging, Splitting, and Redirecting Articles in the Community Guidelines, which also covers procedural votes regarding articles, and which states that changes proposed for a vote are to take place after the vote has concluded and the votes tallied. SpartHawg948 08:35, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

there you go again, extrapolating and twisting words. apparently my saying that he is lying or confused means that i tell everyone that. and last time i checked, dumb and confused are not synonyms, so you can remove that from the small differences category. listen, i don't want to really argue over something as small as this anymore. i want to work together with you( and possibly lancer if he wouldn't mind) to get your side of this thing going. I don't care if i'm wrong about this or not, i just want to show that "this does/does not happen and here is the proof." There are many people that read that page and never see it happen. some say nothing, others like myself and 82.156.214.20 speak up, only to be shot down. this is understandable, you are here to improve the quality of these pages. It's just not right that you and lancer, and others can say that you saw something and put it up on a wikia like that. a fine example of showing proof to something that is hard to believe is the shifty looking cow page. it includes a picture of said creature and how to find him. since we have evidence of the cow, nobody(including myself) questions the authenticity of the contents of the page. Why treat one page differently from the other? Like i've said before, I want to help, I signed up to do so.

Then help! Don't go around playing word games ("there you go again, extrapolating and twisting words.") My point was that the only reason you gave for disregarding several other users was that one of them (Lancer) must be lying or confused. After all, since you completely failed to address the other people who'd said they have seen Shiala kiss Shepard, I figured that meant you lumped them into the "lying or confused" category as well. As for confused/dumb... well, when you say someone is confused about what they saw, it does tend to become a small difference. And note that I never said they were synonymous. It appears that you are now putting words in my mouth, despite the fact that I specifically said there was a difference between the two. Look, if you want proof, and want to help, then try and work with people. And here's a tip: Calling people liars and breaking rules is not helping. Ditto for false accusations. No one is being "shot down" here. Has anyone tried to silence you? If not, why make spurious allegations like that?I appreciate your intent. I really do. But thus far, the application of said intent has been terrible. If you want people to respect you, you need to respect them. And thus far, I've seen very little in the way of respect coming from you, particularly towards Lancer, who, from what I've seen, has done nothing to merit the treatment you've given him. SpartHawg948 09:01, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

You must really like arguing. We've been playing word games together the whole time. in fact, the only time i "attacked" lancer was in my first comment after he said he won't help (moral high ground or not). You've been bringing up respect this whole time, not once did I ask, mention, demand, or otherwise involve respect thereof into the conversation. I've shown you guys the tools that we can use to make this move a whole lot quicker, yet you ignore it and he pushes it aside acting as if it were an evil, nasty thing. I'd appreciate if you would read everything i write instead of just focusing on what you want to argue about.

What have I ignored? Not your post about extracting saves. I already said I do not currently have a suitable save. I said "no, I don't have a save right before it, so it's taking some time". Once a suitable save is acquired, and assuming that it won't constitute illegal modding (the forum you link to seems conflicted on this issue), I'd be happy to attempt it (I say attempt because I'm not tech savvy). I've also offered to go out and spend my own money acquiring a camera to document this. So please, please, please don't say I'm ignoring you or what you're saying. SpartHawg948 09:18, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

One of the admins there says "You are welcome to do any modding you so choose, but you DO IT AT YOUR OWN RISK." It is not illegal, i don't see why that is what you grasp from it. As for the save, i don't need one from before you talk to her, i only need on that has talked to her and got that said reaction. New game plus works just fine. you don't need to be tech savvy to do this, you really only need to do the first three steps and let me handle the rest. And If we're going to continue to debate, maybe we should keep it on one page.

That disclaimer answers nothing, sadly. It's a BioWare disclaimer. I'm more concerned with Microsoft here, as they are the ones notorious for cracking down on modders. And yes, modding is illegal per Microsoft, and the forum you link to is conflicted on the issue, unless the definitive "This is not illegal per Microsoft's terms" statement is buried in the middle of the 100+ pages. So yeah, I honestly could care less about BioWare's take on it, it's Microsoft that worries me, and quite a few other people, if the forum you link to is any indicator. SpartHawg948 09:36, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

If you're worried about modding, then we're in the clear, because right now, all i am propositioning is sharing saved files. this probably would be a different story if it were about achievements, but its not. and how exactly will microsoft catch you red handed? we aren't soliciting anything on their services at the moment, and microsoft has stated in the past that they can take no action over what someone posts on the internet.

And that's the thing: Again, I'm not particularly tech savvy. All I know is that Microsoft tends to come down hard on people, often for silly things. Not being that versed in what's being described here, I'll admit that this proposal does leave me a little outside my comfort zone. So again, barring a definitive and authoritative "This in no way violates the terms of service that I agreed to from Microsoft", I can't really feel comfortable doing this. (If you haven't picked up on it yet, I'm a big 'letter of the law' guy) A handy disclaimer from a BioWare staffer saying that this is the case would be great, but I don't believe there is one. I've already offered an alternative, the only issue here is one of time. I can't promise I'll be able to get it done right away, but then again, I also wouldn't be able to get a suitable saved game right away either, not with my work and class schedule the way it is. Even if I did go the extracting saves route, the earliest I'd probably be able to get a save would be Thursday. I'm genuinely trying to work with you here, but the option you seem to favor isn't one that strikes me as particularly appealing. I can try and get it done quick-like, using Genesis (assuming that'll work) and making a throw-away Shepard, but that's about the best I can do at the moment. SpartHawg948 09:57, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

I'm willing to wait until thursday for your save. Do you no longer have the save that got the kiss? it doesn't matter at what point in the game you saved (before or after) as long as you still have the character. If all else fails, do you remember all the decisions you chose that involved the events on feros, and what you said to shiala when you met her on illium? I probably have the character, I'm just not sure which one it is. I've done a pretty poor job thus far of documenting my many Shepards. I do want to point out though that you say "I'm willing to wait until thursday for your save" as if I've stated "Sure thing! I'll get right on extracting that save!" But I haven't. I still have one major concern, a "deal-breaker" as it were, that remains unaddressed. And, being the "follow-the-rules"/"better safe than sorry" kinda guy I am, I'd much prefer going the safer route (namely video/images as opposed to extracted saves). SpartHawg948 10:14, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Yes, you have stated you are against it, but did say that if you do try, you'd have it by thursday. i was simply letting you know that i was willing to wait til thursday if you decided to go along with my idea. do you at least remember what you did on feros? did you kill ethan jeong?, did you save all the colonists? Love Intrest or not in ME? On illium, what did you say to shiala at the end? Something in there must be a key factor in why you get a kiss and others don't. I simply want to replicate your steps to getting this.

No... I said that, were I to try it, which would be wholly dependent on getting some substantiation that it's not a violation of the Microsoft Terms of Service and all that, "the earliest I'd probably be able to get a save would be Thursday", not that I would "have it by thursday". Thursday is pretty much the first day I'll have time to play ME2. Between now and then, I've got a paper to write, a 20-minute presentation to prepare, a final to study for, and four full days of work. As for decisions, again, not really. I'm not sure which Shepard it was, having several, and given that it's 3:30am and the only reason I'm still awake is to respond to your comments, the old memory isn't working at full capacity. SpartHawg948 10:30, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

lol, you just love clarifying don't you? forget about it for now, we'll catch up later.

Yup. I'm a nit-picker, no doubt about it! Well, in that case, it's off to bed. G'nite! :) SpartHawg948 10:33, June 18, 2011 (UTC)

Editing comments made by other users Edit

Quick note on site policy. Do not edit comments made by other users on talk pages, as you did to my comment on Talk:Shiala earlier today. Editing the comments of other users is vandalism, and is treated as such. If you wish to update the thread reflecting who voted which way, do it in your own comment. Don't edit mine. My comments are my own, your comments are your own. Editing the comments of others is considered to be an especially egregious form of vandalism, as it is effectively impersonating the other person, pretty much literally putting words into their mouths. As such, there is typically only one warning given. Please do not do it again. Thanks, SpartHawg948 06:19, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

lol, you're a piece of work, you know that? i'd love for a more streamlined and up to date approach then. and i am editing my original post thanks. you reverted that as well as the meager changes to your partial sentence naming the voters i made.

Yes I did. I undid the edit in its entirety, and due to the policy against editing other users comments, I didn't edit your comment. We actually have a "more streamlined and up to date approach", in the form of the Policy Forum and Projects Forum, where votes are displayed in real-time, sorted by who votes for, against, or neutral. SpartHawg948 07:18, June 19, 2011 (UTC) that's well and good i'd imagine. a little late for this situation though, no? For reference purposes though, i will be updating my comments to reflect who voted for what until this is over on the 22nd.

Please do. Just please don't edit my comment further. In addition to being a violation of site policy, it actually made my comment factually inaccurate, as my comment and the vote total contained therein were explicitly stated to be current to (and only to) 0:04, June 18, 2011 (UTC), at which time neither Dammej or Legionwrex had voted. SpartHawg948 07:29, June 19, 2011 (UTC) LMAO, i'm sorry. XD

Remember, I am a self-described "nit-picker"! :P SpartHawg948 07:34, June 19, 2011 (UTC)

After what happened above, I decided to take another look at the history, and guess what I found. What I found was that this happened not once, but twice. How it was missed the first time, I really don't know, but since you've already been given the lecture on this, I'll just let this hang. Lancer1289 17:02, June 19, 2011 (UTC) oh dear me, I FEEL SO BAD. OKay, my bad. that last comment was out of line. Do you really feel the need to add your two cents in to everything sparthawg checks in on?

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