This page is the sixth archive of my talk page. If you leave a message here, I will not read it beause I consider all conversations on this page closed. If you want to bring up an issue again, just leave me a message on my talk page about it. Thanks.

Page History

This new skin is ridiculous, and hard to understand. I know I'm probably not looking hard enough, but I went to check on an edit on the page about Humans and couldn't even find where to check the page history. Aside from going to the specific user's contributions page, how can I check the history of an edit? --Effectofthemassvariety 17:05, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

I already took care of the human page, but to check the history of articles, there is this very annoying drop down menu above the text. At the top of the article, just below the article's title, is this think that says "Edited ____ by ____", the ___ are filled with time and person respectively, and after that is an arrow. Hover your mouse over that and you see a small drop down of the latest contributors for the article and at the bottom is "View full history". Click on that to get the full history of the article. You can't do that to user space pages, including sandboxes, which is annoying and ridiculous in my opinion. I've left a message with the staff about it and asked they bring that back as we've had more than a few instances of vandalism on user space pages.
And yes the new skin is very annoying to say the least, but we're stuck with it. I'll keep most of my opinions about it to myself as we do have that language policy. However the staff didn't listen to much and they needed to. Lancer1289 17:11, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm glad you took care of that Human page. Those edits looked like complete speculation, and, if you read them, they don't even make sense. Thanks for the "tutorial." I don't like to complain about something that's not going to change cause it only makes it worse; However I'm not going to ignore the elephant in the room either, you know? Anywho, thanks again. --Effectofthemassvariety 17:29, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

No problem. Lancer1289 17:30, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Community Thing

Wouldn't you know, I forgot the actual name of the thing I came to talk to you about. It's the thing on the main page. The community board thing... I dunno. Anyways, I was just reading the Community ____ and saw that it said "...drop one a line with one of the admins." I'm sure you can see why I brought it up, but I'll say it anyways: the first 'one' should be deleted so that it says "...drop a line with one of the admins." Just thought I'd bring it up. --Effectofthemassvariety 18:46, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Community Messages! That's what it is! How did I forget that? --Effectofthemassvariety 18:51, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict)It's the Community Message, and that has gone unnoticed for about three months now as the last time was back in July. Anyway fixed. Lancer1289 18:53, October 24, 2010 (UTC)

Spoiler Tags

I would suggest someone (not me, cuz I'm dumb) create a spoil tag for the minor things in the ME Universe. This spoiler tag could be put at the top of any minor stories, or mini comics. That way we have one, but we don't have to continuously make new ones. --Effectofthemassvariety 16:12, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

However we have individual spoiler tags for all current ME books, comics, and games. I don't see why we should have anything different for Mass Effect: Incursion and Mass Effect: Inquisition, which currently don't have ones. I'd say drop a message with Commdor or Dammej and see about spoiler tags for the mini-comics. Creating a general one, to me, seems like just removing some individuality. Precedent says we have individaul tags for everything, and don't see why these two should be any exception. Lancer1289 16:36, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, I was only suggesting it because inquistion is such a miniature (not in content, but in length) addition, and I forsee other miniature additions to the universe. However an individual tag for these things would really make it feel nicer, so I say we do that. --Effectofthemassvariety 20:30, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

I've already left Commdor a message about it, and he said that he should have something up tomorrow. Lancer1289 20:31, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Awesome. Sounds good then. --Effectofthemassvariety 20:35, October 26, 2010 (UTC)

Profile picture

How do I change my profile picture? I connected from facebook and I can't change the image!

You can change your profile picture under Special:Preferences, or at least that's how it works for me. Not sure about Facebook connect users however. Lancer1289 16:57, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Spoiler Tag Quote

I noticed that we needed a quote on our Mass Effect spoiler tag, so I thought that I would try and save some work for someone else and add a quote to it myself. I have six selections up. Check them out on my Sandbox, and see if you like any of them. If you have any other quotes, then just say them. I'd like to see this tag up to par with the rest of them. --Effectofthemassvariety 17:02, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well I've got a few.
  1. "You've lost, you know that" - Saren
  2. "You can't just ignore a rogue Spectre. I demand action." - Udina
  3. "This mission just got a lot more complicated." - Anderson
I have a few more, but I need to check them. However I really like number 3. It really gives the overall view of ME doesn't it. Lancer1289 17:28, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, number 3 was one of my favorites too. It gives the overall view of both the game, and the hole series. I really like your third suggestion. It's kind of similar to the ME2 tag. I'll add these ones up, and we'll see what they look like. --Effectofthemassvariety 17:50, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

So 3 & 9 (The Anderson Quote) are, in my opinion, the best choices so far. I dropped a message with Spart too, so when he comes around he could make some suggestions. Eventually I think that we should eliminate some of the not so good ones and put it to a vote, if a vote seems needed. I have a class to get to in about 40 minutes, and I still have some errands to run, so I'll be leaving for a couple hours, probably. If you have any more suggestions, put them up. --Effectofthemassvariety 18:23, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Well, I feel pretty bad about adding to the confusion. I felt like we were going to just implement one, then I thought, later on, that we should get input, and do a vote. However, since Commdor picked one already, maybe we should let it be(?) I like the quote more than the rest, so... I dunno. Discussion, no discussion, doesn't matter to me. --Effectofthemassvariety 21:25, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

No harm no foul. Anyway I'll get something started later. I'm kind of in and out today. Lancer1289 21:38, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, no problem. Actually, I started a discussion on Template talk: Spoilers (Mass Effect) so that's fine. It's pretty much a formality at this point, but whatever. --Effectofthemassvariety 21:49, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

File Deletion Request

Lancer, I went ahead and added the Charon Relay screenshot as we discussed (under a more suitable file name). I'm now requesting that you delete two screenshots I uploaded, since (a) neither one is being used, and (b) they have annoying file names. The two files are: [deleted]. If it's not too much trouble. Thanks a lot! -/\-AnotherRho 02:46, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Had to take care of a few things first. Anyway I'll be glad to delete them, and then can you please remove the redlinks that will be left as a result. Thanks. Lancer1289 03:24, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Thanks, you're the man. --AnotherRho

No problem. Happy to help. Lancer1289 03:32, November 3, 2010 (UTC)

Turian Name Trivia

There are a fair amount of pages that give the nomenclature of the various Turian names in the trivia section. I'm wondering if these are really necessary if they aren't relevant to the characters in question. For instance, what does "seven" have to do with General Septimus? It doesn't have any relevance to the character beyond letting you know his name has a Latin root. I'd appreciate knowing your stance so I change tweak my edits accordingly. 23:03, November 4, 2010 (UTC)

Well we do have an established pattern with turian, remember no caps, names. Turian culture is based on Roman culture, that's fact not speculation. We do have some patterns when it comes to naming with planets, and since we have that fact about Roman culture, I'd have to say that showing how it has a Latin root is relevant because it shows possbily where the name came from. Lancer1289 23:12, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
Still, I believe it is enough that the turian article makes mention of the Roman connection. Tracing back the etymology every turian's (got it right this time ;)) name just to drive home that connection seems a bit excessive. 23:20, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
It doesn't seem excessive to me, it merely provides interesting information. Lancer1289 23:25, November 4, 2010 (UTC)
Saying that, since the turian article mentions a link to the Romans, we don't need any mention of the Latin-inspired names is like suggesting that, since the Codex lists what naming conventions the Alliance Navy uses, there is no reason to provide this information in other articles such as the Alliance Navy, SSV Normandy, SSV Hastings, and SSV Iwo Jima articles. The info is relevant to the articles in question, so there is really no reason not to include it. SpartHawg948 00:19, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
I'd forgotten about those. Oh well yet again I say something then someone else, almost always Spart, comes along and says it much better and with more information. Not that I'm complaining mind you. Lancer1289 02:14, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Well I am! What's the deal with this new message notification system? It sucks!!! :P SpartHawg948 02:44, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yes the notification system is very annoying. However as Wikia will say, "get used to it". To which I answer, "Why?" Lancer1289 02:51, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

RE: ME Wiki Spotlight Image

Wow, I hadn't seen/noticed that spotlight until I read your message. That looks nothing like anything from Mass Effect. When you have time, pick out an image you'd like to be used, and I'll pass it on to the person who made the spotlight and request that it be redone. JoePlay@fandom (talk) 16:03, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

When I talked to the person in charge of spotlights, I found out that a new one had already been made that does use an image from Mass Effect. It's currently showing up and has replaced the skeletons with guns image. It's not the image you linked me to (again, because this new one had already been made), but it looks good and is easily identifiable as ME. JoePlay@fandom (talk) 19:01, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

Heads up

Just a quick heads up, while I'm thinking of it. I'm going to be at a conference tomorrow, and it's pretty much an all-day thing, so I probably won't be on too much. It's scheduled to run from 8am-5pm PST, and while I don't really have to stay the entire day, I think I'm going to, so I really won't be around till evening time. SpartHawg948 22:00, November 5, 2010 (UTC)

Alright then, thanks for the heads up and do enjoy the conference. Lancer1289 22:07, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Oh, I'll try! There's going to be free lunch, so I'll sure as... heck... enjoy that! :P SpartHawg948 23:34, November 5, 2010 (UTC)
Anything free is always a plus. Lancer1289 00:13, November 6, 2010 (UTC)

Klendagon & Dragon's Age

Just thought I'd point that out. Tanooki1432 03:44, November 7, 2010 (UTC)

And what of it. I've seen the moon many times during my Dragon Age playthoughs, and while there is some resemblence, again visual comparisons are not enough, and how many times do I have to say that. We need proof and an image isn't enough, in this case or any other. So this is speculaion. Lancer1289 04:14, November 7, 2010 (UTC)


I did not know the information was important what I read semed like random information that an unregistered contributer added. I should have read through it more carefully. It is just that I am used to deleting random stuff that unregistered contributers add and I though that might be it. I will make sure to check more carfully next time to avoid deleting important information on this wiki. ----Zoso159ImagesLead me, Follow me, Or get out of my way. 16:52, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

That's fine, but do check before removing valid information. Things may work differntly where you edit, but here we do a pretty good job of catching random information. And trust me that isn't random information. Lancer1289 17:03, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

But what about the Gamer Profile section? that was the only part I deleted and it had stuff I never heard of it. It was full of random stuff that is not even in the game.

Here is some of the content I deleted:

Gamer profile for Infiltrait0rN7

Galaxy of Fantasy:

Most Used Character: John Smith, Level 612 Ardat-Yakshi Necromancer

Group Affiliation: N/A

Most Recent Boss Defeated: K'l'rh, Rachni Blood Wizard


- Best Supporter/Healer (Event: Scourge of the Thresher Dragon)

- Best Unit Efficiency (Event: Return of the Cyber-Protheans)

- Winner (Event: Crystal Genophage Elimination Platinum)

No that information is in the game, is accurate, and gained from the Shadow Broker Dossiers. This dossiers are only accessible from the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC pack and only after it is completed. Those articles, like the Codex are copied directly from the game and contain all the information that it did. Also all of the dossiers were transcribed within a day of the Pack being released, and I can assure you that they all have been double checked, probably checked multiple times, and are accurate. Just because you haven't heard of something, or seen it, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. If you have a question about something, then either ask on the talk page or an admin. Also you didn't leave an edit summary so I assumed it was vandalism because it was removal of valid and accurate information. Again just because you haven't heard or seen something, doesn't mean that is valid, and accurate, information. Lancer1289 21:50, November 9, 2010 (UTC)

You right I should double check before making any edits from now on. ----Zoso159ImagesLead me, Follow me, Or get out of my way. 00:03, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

I can see now that there was no harm intended, but double checking, especially when doubt never hurts. Lancer1289 00:07, November 10, 2010 (UTC)

RE: Legion page.

I have discovered that you have found it necessary to revise my revision. I observe that you have cited policy ("we talk first, then change,") but have yourself failed to comply with it. You revision was not pre-empted with a message to me, or the creation of a discussion on the talk page. I do not wish to malign you with any spurious accusations, but this seems most hypocritical to me. I ask that you undo your latest revision and commence discourse on the talk page, which I have already facilitated by creating a pertinent topic.
By no means do I intend to spark an edit war over this, but it seems deeply unfair that you see it as your right to revert my edits without discussing them.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards; faithfully yours so long as this machine is his,
TheEnigmaticMan 23:02, November 11, 2010 (UTC)

No that is your job. Any edit can get reverted, then if the person who made the initial edit has a problem with it, then it is their job to bring it up on the talk page. As such I am perfectly within my rights, and it was you that violated policy with the undo before any discussion. Since you have a problem with the undo, which is within policy, it is again your job, not mine, to bring it up on the talk page first, not revert then bring it up. As such, per policy, I will not revert my edit until after a discussion has concluded per the policy regarding this.
Also this applies in life. If you did something one way, then someone does it differently, would you then undo what they did, then go and talk to them about it? Well I don't know about you, but everyone I know wouldn't because that is seen as both disrespectful and rude no matter who they are. Whether they be a professor, boss, family member, or a friend. That is the basis of the policy. Lancer1289 23:11, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
If that is the site's policy then I apologise for any violation on my part. However, it is obvious that your revision was indiscriminate in that it was universal. It is not grammatically correct to use the word "raising" to describe the motion of Legion's "eyebrows". I can only conclude that you paid little heed to the majority of the edit.
Your analogy is incorrect. If I did something differently, and then somebody else undid it all, then I am not at fault; they are. In your analogy, I am the person who has had his work undone. Mine was the addition, not the subtraction.
However, I can see that you are resolved and that your mind is set. It is not my place to convince you otherwise, and I am aware of the fact that users with many edits almost always have their way. As such, whatever reason I can muster will shrink away in the face of your cankerous supremacy. While I anticipate your desire to defend yourself, know that I shall make no further revision to the Legion page, regardless of the outcome.
If this be a house which tolerates poor grammar, then it is senseless for one to fight it.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards; faithfully yours so long as this machine is his,
TheEnigmaticMan 23:24, November 11, 2010 (UTC)
Just chirping in, but to be frank, your the one who comes off as pompus. Your simply argueing because you didn't get your way and violated policy. However, I have no room to speak, seeing is I was merely intriuged by this discussion. 01:16, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
Well just got back from a concert with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and now to attend to this which I couldn't before I left.
Pompous really isn't a word that I would use, arrogant would be a more appropriate term. Your edit gets undone, then you revert the undo, before bringing it up on the talk page. That's against policy. If you have a problem with it, then bring it up before you undo as you said in your edit summary that you were sure we should come to an agreement. Now wouldn't the logical course of action be to bring up a discussion first, before undoing an edit, and one made by an admin at that? And then implement it after the discussion has concluded? Doesn't that make more sense.
As to always getting my way, well that usually does happen on wikis because the people who have a lot of edits, generally, note this isn't always the case, know what they are talking about. Being an editor with a lot of edits means, in the grand scheme of things, nothing. Even admins have the same voting power as regular users, however they can break a tie provided they voted. Also I haven't always gotten my way, there are more than a few occasions where I haven't, and yet I didn't argue it or insult others when I lost. I presented my ideas in a calm and orderly fashion, then no matter the decision, I accepted it, again whether I agreed with it or not. As an admin I have to set an example for others to follow and not getting angry over something small, is one of those things.
As for the user who "[has] no room to speak", I welcome opinions, whether they agree with me or not. Frankly I've had some fascinating discussions here before and someone coming in, even late to the party, sometimes can catch things that others miss. Or point out a new opinion that also be considered. Lancer1289 05:28, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
Addendum: For someone who passes himself off as a gentleman, you don't act like it given your comments. Just saying... Lancer1289 05:30, November 12, 2010 (UTC)
If it be the case that my actions contravened local policy, then I can only apologise. You know of my position on that policy, that it be an illogical and ridiculous affair, but the salient issue is that formerly addressed; the violation of said. I can understand your position; in do I stride and in a display of most profound conceit proceed to ignore your laws and the cite them for my own purposes.
I feel that the impression I have made here is an inauspicious one to say the least; for that, again most sincere apologies. I can when riled be a most arrogant and detestable beast, wholly impervious to reason or pleading. My behaviour was unpardonable and I can scarcely remember it without abhorrence. As such it is fitting that I plead your gracious pardon, fully sensible of the disparity betwixt said and my deserving of it.
You are quite right in condemning my ungentlemanly behaviour, for it was such that it was not befitting my character.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards; faithfully yours so long as this machine is his,
TheEnigmaticMan 01:52, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
If you don't agree with the policy, then it is your right to not like it, but that is no reason to go and break further policies, especially ones on language. Frankly you come across as arrogant with your actions, based on your comments and actions. While it is again your right to dislike policy, I dislike a number of things myself, but that doesn't give me the right to break more of them. And frankly using more formal language to argue your points doesn't win any points with me. When people start talking like that, they come across as arrogant because they think speaking in such formal tones gives them authority over others. While that may not have been your intent, that is what this says to me. Frankly unless I'm in a debate, or giving a more formal speech, I never hear, or speak, any kind of language like that. Using big words and formal English never wins anyone any points with me, no matter the intent. Lancer1289 15:57, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
What miserable drones and fiends has this site nourished that a man might not apologise for actions he has acknowledged to be abhorrent without further chastisement and insult? Not satisfied with forcing me to admit error, you proceed to insult my wordsmanship. Comprehend that my purpose here is not to "score points" with you sir; in fact I knew nothing of you existence until you had already made an enemy of me.
By the furies, it seems an act of insurmountable hubris to continue with a patronizing education in local policy rather than to accept a genuine apology.
While an apology for my intransigence has already been made, in this I shall tender none. My speech is the product of circumstance and not an affectation designed to impress you. I might as easily take offence at your unwillingness to use formal language when speaking to me, a stranger (indeed, it seems inappropriate to address you as a friend, given our poor rapport and mutual ignorance).
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards; faithfully yours so long as this machine is his.
TheEnigmaticMan 17:00, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
It is the policy to bring something up on a talk page if you have a problem with it as that usually how it works in life. You violated policy, one you have a problem with, and then when informed about it, you then proceed to violate another few clauses of policy.
As to insulting your wordmanship, I didn't have that intent but the reason I don't either like or like to use that language, is because it is hard for others to understand who don't know what you are saying. I use the "common tongue", as I think that's how you would call it, because not only do more people understand it, more people can respect someone using it. If you address someone so formally, then the only thing that comes out is usually two things. 1. You, whether you intend it or not, come across as arrogant and even if you are someone with some authority, like myself as an administrator, then you can actually discourage people from editing or from having a productive time here becuase they thing that formal language has to be used all the time, and that isn't the case. The second option, is that the person can respect you, but I've noticed that happens very rarely. Usually people who talk like that come across as both arrogant and superior because they don't talk in terms that you can't understand, or can't understand without thinking about it.
I respect anyone addressing me as a friend, whether or not they actually are or they are someone who we haven't seen eye to eye. Actually I'll respect them more because even if they disagree with me constantly, they still address me like someone who wants to resolve something, rather than someone addressing me in a formal tone. When the more formal language comes up, unless it is called for, that usually irritates me because now others who many read the conversation, or choose to come in later, may not understand anything, or everything, which is even worse because it usually leads misunderstandings and then even more words to describe the other words.
Also I don't consider you an enemy, there are a few people who I do, but no one who is here now. You claim to be my enemy, yet I don't consider you that.
Finally, never did I say that I accepted or rejected your apology. This is the first case where someone apologized, and when I didn't address it directly, they assumed that I didn't accept it. I did, but I assumed that because I didn't address it, you'd assume that I didn't. Seriously this is the first case of this. Lancer1289 19:43, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
As to your blasted policies in all their loathsome abundance, I have in my view broken but one, for which trespass I have made an unaccepted apology. Having read you policy on language, I discovered that "There is some leeway in Talk pages and in discussion between users", regarding obscenities. This is pertinent despite the fact that the word was not contextually offensive. I do not tailor my speech to entertain cretins; if somebody is incapable of comprehending the concept that a word may have more than one meaning, then that is a situation in which he must dwell, not I.
I care nothing for what you extrapolate from my speech. I do, however, find such presumption as " the "common tongue", as I think that's how you would call it, " to be shockingly offensive. To compound the matter, I have already stated that my language appears here as it naturally flows; it is not artifice. You have in ignoring this claim branded me a liar. I held some stock of respect for the semblance of courtesy you showed before that. Now it has all but evaporated in the face of so grave and mortifying a slander.
You, sir are not my friend, thus I shall not address you as such. Protocol demands that in correspondence betwixt two mutually ignorant parties, formal language must be used. I am not even aware of your name, and you think I would address you as I would my closest comrade? That is something I am not prepared to do. Try to comprehend that in my eyes presuming familiarity with a stranger is an extremely offensive thing to do.
You may not consider yourself my enemy, but such is the level of insult that has been directed at me as leaves me no choice but to consider you mine. You have implied that I am a liar; that I am verbose and arrogant. You have refused to address me properly as I have you and still you expect me to consider you a friend. I can only express utter incredulity.
As to the apology, do you honestly believe that you can by making no mention of it imply that it has been accepted? As far as I am concerned, it has not been. This only increases the magnitude of insult that I have been forced to endure during this correspondence.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards; faithfully yours so long as this machine is his,
TheEnigmaticMan 22:10, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
See... that's the thing. You have to read all the rules. Not just some of them. if you consult the section entitled "Banning", you will note the following item listed as grounds for banning, no exceptions: "Crude or offensive language". I would also point out that the following: "I do not tailor my speech to entertain cretins;" is itself borderline. You don't call anyone a cretin directly, but the implication is there nonetheless.
As for the implication that you are "arrogant", I must confess that, while I tend to try and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and try not to develop strong notions based on very little information, your conduct on this wiki certainly hasn't helped dispel the notion that you may be arrogant. There is only one person who can dispel the notion that you are arrogant, and it isn't Lancer or I. SpartHawg948 22:26, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
Honorable SpartHawg948,
I have quoted one rule in my defense. You have done likewise. Thus far we are equal.
I do not use crude language. I use language that accurately describes my sentiments. I do not consider "cretin" to be obscene, and neither do you. If I am mistaken in this, then that seems a rather poor reflection of your maturity. My conduct on this wiki has in my eyes been exemplary, considering the insults I have endured. If I am wrong, I apologise. If I am insulted, I am wounded. When pricked, I bleed and when slandered I defend myself. My language has been nothing other than befitted. I have observed all protocol in my correspondence with Lancer1289 and yourself. To a point this conduct was reciprocated, but seemingly no longer on the part of aforesaid. My statements have been misconstrued, made to be false and my language insulted also.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards, faithfully yours so long as this machine is to him,
TheEnigmaticMan 22:44, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
We have each quoted one rule in our defense. However, the "Banning" section, it must be pointed out, is the be-all and end-all as far as rules go. If it's listed in banning, that's that. As such, I am afraid that this "equality" you perceive simply does not exist. And it must be pointed out that, in matters of arbitration when it comes to the rules, the ultimate decision lies with site administration. Currently, that would be Lancer, as the only active admin, and myself, as the only site Bureaucrat.
You are correct that cretin is not obscene. It is, however, insulting. And "Insulting other users" is also listed as grounds for banning. I for one don't recall insulting you. If I have, please direct me to the offending behavior, and I will of course apologize. Nor have I slandered you. As such, I would appreciate it if maybe you can avoid calling me a cretin, or implying that I am a cretin. That really isn't a big request, is it? To ask you not to insult me? Or anyone? SpartHawg948 22:59, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
Honorable SpartHawg948,
It is a rather ridiculous notion that one rule can by virtue of its position negate another rule which explicitly contradicts it.
My references regarded Lancer. Your own behaviour has been exemplary. His has not.
I have not called you a cretin, nor have I implied that you were such. I quite simply stated that I speak to people with the presumption that they are intelligent; that I do not treat people like idiots.
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards, faithfully yours so long as this machine is to him,
TheEnigmaticMan 23:12, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
One rules does not negate the other, as the Language policy does not explicitly contradict the Banning policy. Your interpretation of the Language policy and what it means is what is overridden by the Banning policy. The exception afforded in the Language policy is for language like that used when you seemingly branded other users cretins. It has since come to light that this was apparently a generalized comment not directed at others. As such, this use of insulting language (as I feel fairly confident that you agree that "cretin" is an insulting term) is protected under the language policy, and you are not eligible to be banned for it. Vulgar language is not protected, as becomes clear if we look at the item in question in its entirety, not one portion taken out of context. "Offensive language, either toward other editors or in articles, is not tolerated. There is some leeway in Talk pages and in discussion between users". Crude language and vulgarity are not protected. SpartHawg948 23:21, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
First as to the language. The bottom line is that there is leeway on talk pages, but that does not' include obscenities. The language we ask for is either “G” rated, as per the MMPA, or not at all. Language with any obscenities has absolutely no place here as it can be taken as offensive, so it is your job to tailor your speech to be acceptable to everyone. Or as you call them, to the cretins, which is offensive no matter how you put it. This is not my view on the word, but the word cretin means: “person considered to be extremely stupid” “a person afflicted with cretinism” which is a condition of severely stunted mental or physical growth, “a stupid, obtuse, or mentally defective person.” That is already borderline offensive, if you had read all of the rules like Spart stated above. Those are clearly covered in the banning section as it does insult other users because you are not calling them educated. As for others interpreting your comments as offensive, take a moment and read your comments from the perspective of an outsider. What may not seem offensive to you, no matter how you use it, it may seem offensive to someone else.
”I have already stated that my language appears here as it naturally flows; it is not artifice.” Where exactly did you say that, because I have read, and reread this conversation and can’t find where you state that. To expand on that, how have I ignored this claim if you ever made it? I haven’t found one instance in which you make this claim so don’t put words in my mouth by saying that I ignored it and subsequently called you a liar. Prove where you stated this and then I’ll retract my statement and apologize, but I can’t find where you did so. I believe this is misinterpretation of my statements.
As to the language, I stand by what I said. I really don’t care how people talk to me, but I do indeed despise more formal tones. They are both off-putting for someone entering a conversation, they make the language much harder to understand and by extension the meaning of the words, and usually results in misinterpretations and people having to look up words in order to participate in a discussion. I prefer language that everyone can understand because it makes reading and understanding something much, much easier to understand. I’ve had people who are arguing with me, but use the same type of language that I do, because that is the language you would use in talking with someone when you have a disagreement. Formal tones turn many people off because not many people can understand it without having to read it a number of times.
Again how have I implied that you are a liar because I really want to see where I stated this. As to your arrogance, given your actions, I agree with Spart that you have defiantly come off as such. Frankly I hate to use formal tones as it again makes a conversation harder to read and understand. I talk like this when I’m talking to my professors, and yet none of them seem to mind that. I see people who are arguing resorting to more formal tones as a step backwards because then you have to interpret what they are saying, and that can lead to misinterpretations of what is actually being said. I prefer to converse as I would normally because it not only makes things easier to understand, but easier for others who also may have opinions, to jump in. If all they see is formal language, it can be a turn off because they might think they have to talk like that in order to join the conversation. Not exactly the type of thing you want on a wiki were everyone is welcome to edit/contribute.
Finally as to the apology, yes that is how is usually happens. I have many, many times where someone apologizes, then I go on without addressing it, and they don’t say a thing about it because they know that I accepted it. Seriously this is the first occasion that I’ve had where I have not directly addressed it and they take it as I didn’t. I stated that I accepted you apology for violating site policy, and if you can’t accept that, then that is on you.
Again certain is insulting language and has no place here. Either keep it “G” rated, or it has no place here. Crude language is also again something that falls under the “keep it “G” rated”. If you wouldn’t see it on a children’s show or in a children’s movie, then it has no place here. And I'm certain cretin isn't "G" rated.
As you can interpret my comments differently than I would, or someone else., it is easy to misread comments, and therefore intentions. Again I have stated that it was not my intent to befit your language, I said that I don’t like that language and if that somehow insulted you, then I do apologize for that because that wasn’t my intent. Whenever I see this type of language in the normal conversation setting, it is an immediate turn-off for me because not only do I see it has harder for others to understand, but it sometimes gives me a headache because I have to read it carefully in order to understand it correctly.
However I again ask you to address what I asked in my second paragraph. I stated that I don’t like formal tones, and then I will respect someone much more for not using them, than someone using them for the reasons that I stated above. Again find where exactly I have offended you on purpose, and I’ll apologize, if I haven’t already. Lancer1289 23:26, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
Honorable Lancer1289,
Regarding your insistence that I have not defended my diction herein, I quote the following; "My speech is the product of circumstance and not an affectation designed to impress you". That is quite unambiguous. A search of the word "affectation" will confirm its location on the page.
I believe the above adequately addresses the bulk of your writings. The prevailing issue, however, is that of my use of the word "cretin". If you believe that it equates to a weak supposal of fellow editors' education, then you may have a point. Basic second level education includes a subject known as "English". Every word I have used thus far is part of that venerable language. Therefore anybody of decent education should understand what I write. If they cannot, then I will on request compress my sentiments into such a medium as pleases whomever asked, but I have in writing so formally avoided patronizing the community. If I had entered it believing everybody to be of lesser intelligence to myself, then I would have been arrogant indeed. That I did not is a mark of respect. I fail to see how assuming that everybody here is intelligent can be interpreted as an insult, providing that supposal is correct.
I concede the point on rules to you, however. As the site administrator, it is logical to defer to your judgment in such matters. However, I must point out that the phrase "Offensive language, either toward other editors or in articles, is not tolerated. There is some leeway in Talk pages and in discussion between users" is somewhat ambiguous; if the leeway does not refer to offensive language, then to what does it refer?
And a brief note on your reaction to my diction. I find your revulsion towards formal language to be a wearisome business. It is your right to dislike it, but your verbosity in expressing that dislike somewhat contradicts your point. In other words, should my language be too good for your liking; "you've made your point so often as to render is obsolete".
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards, faithfully yours so long as this machine is to him,
TheEnigmaticMan 17:56, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
So you did state it before, but you used different wording and in a different context. And how you presented it was a little rude considering that I stated quite clearly that I had no idea where you expressed it before.
You claim that anyone with a decent education should be able to understand what you write. However that is a lot of speculation on your part. Everyone has a different education and not everyone may have come across those words, or they may not know their meaning, which again leads to misinterpretation and misunderstanding. If you would look at any of the conversations on this site, and I believe I've read most of them, this is the first time I've seen this type of language used. Assuming that everyone is intelligent is not an unreasonable assumption, a very reasonable one actually, but assuming that everyone knows every single word in the English language, then know how to use them appropriately, understand them, know exactly how you use them, and what know what context they are being used in, is very unreasonable. Especially when words are being used that don't come up very often. Guessing how words are used by someone may not know what they mean, or what they mean in the context they are used, frequently leads to misunderstanding or someone misinterpreting what is being said.
Cretin is offensive no matter how you use it. In the way you used it offends everyone here because look how you used it. "I do not tailor my speech to entertain cretins; if somebody is incapable of comprehending the concept that a word may have more than one meaning, then that is a situation in which he must dwell, not I." Because they may not understand what exactly you are saying, or maybe what you are saying in context, then they are not as educated as yourself, and as such don't have a decent education or are one of those things I listed in a few definitions of the word I listed above, none of which are positive. Nor are any of the other places that I've looked for a definition of the word. The word is violating the Banning clause of the Community Guidelines. You may not have directly applied to anyone here, but the implication is there as Spart explained earlier.
The Language policy about leeway does not apply to words that are considered offensive or crude and something that you wouldn't hear in normal conversation. My interpretation of the leeway applies to words that may accidently come up during arguments, that may be crude/inappropriate like four letter words beginning with "c" and "d" and "s", but it does not exclude anything under the Language or Banning policies, which includes words that insult other users, which is exactly this case with the word "cretin". Words that might accidently slip out during an argument, that wouldn’t normally be heard, is another way I could express this. I know Spart has his own opinion on this, but again anything that isn't "G" rated, isn't appropriate and you will be called on it, and if it continues, then you will face punishments for it.
Finally, how does expressing my point on my dislike of formal language contradict my point. I stated in many different ways why I don't like it and I fail to see how expressing them, even multiple times, contradicts my point. It doesn't render my point obsolete, I just expressed why I don't like it and you can read why above. And I don't know where that quote came from, but it wasn't from anywhere on this wiki. Lancer1289 18:46, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
Honorable Lancer1289,
My my, quite the Polonius aren't we? Now, as to your receipt of my rebuttal; it is not in the form promised. I expected no apology, so I am not so shocked as I should be, but the manner in which you reacted to your fallacious declaration (that I had not defended my diction) being rebuked was not becoming of a gentleman. Do you seriously believe that "different wording" is a legitimate defense on your part? As to the context, it is of little relevance. Saying that my diction is "not artifice" equates to it not being "an affectation" regardless of contextual barriers. I credit this mistake to your deploring of prose, of course. I cannot be blamed for presentation; you had professed to having read our discourse in its entirety, so I could not factor your ignorance into my reply (indeed, said was the very effect of the matter).
Regardless of the education of others, I have had a rather good one. I do not intend to waste it by speaking in a form so dull, flat and unprofitable as you demand. I make no apology in this regard, nor shall I brook further insult. Videlicet; I am not to be vilified for speaking well. As to "words... that don't come up very often", to what medium are you referring? Do the people no longer read? If not then that is their loss. Guessing what words mean is inexcusable for somebody who is sitting before the world's largest dictionary - the internet.
Nobody has yet attested to being incapable of understanding what I say. Thus it is impossible to state that I have implied cretinism on anybody's part. I can only reasonably conclude that you are entertaining a willful ignorance in persisting to accuse me of slandering the community.
Your next section leaves me rather confused. If the leeway does not apply to obscenities (videlicet swear words), then what can it possibly apply to? What other forms of language are so prohibited as to warrant leeway? You go on to talk about "words that may accidently come up during arguments, that may be crude/inappropriate like four letter words beginning with "c" and "d" and "s"", but what are those words (excepting carp, duck and sink) besides obscenities? It is a rare thing that a man might contradict himself in the same paragraph (for which adoption; many thanks).
You have defeated your point thus: you claim that my verbosity (speaking in terms too long and complex) is your abhorrence, but have said it so many times as to render yourself guilty. Perhaps I should begin to speak in aphorisms and clichés?
With all attendant respect and the warmest of regards, faithfully yours so long as this machine is to him,
TheEnigmaticMan 19:55, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
I have already explained to you what the "leeway" in question applies to. If you have any confusion about it, I suggest you go back and re-read my answer. It's right here in this very thread, in my post timestamped 23:21, November 15, 2010 (UTC). I can't honestly see why you would keep demanding an explanation for a rule that has already been explained to you right here on this very page, unless your intent is to extract a somewhat different interpretation from Lancer than the one I have given, and to use this to drive a proverbial rail between us or some such, allowing you to declare the rule null and void, and yourself stainless in all this. Unless there is some other reason you want another explanation for the rule that has already been explained? SpartHawg948 21:29, November 19, 2010 (UTC)
And now you’ve completely lost me because now I have no idea what you are talking about in that first sentence with the relation to Hamlet. Of course it’s been a while since I read it.
As to the apology, yes I did say I’d retract, and I didn’t, so I do apologize for that, and for not addressing it.However yes I do believe that different wording and context is a very legit defense. Here is how you used it the first time: “My speech is the product of circumstance and not an affectation designed to impress you.” And the second time: “I have already stated that my language appears here as it naturally flows; it is not artifice.” Now compare those two, specifically the phrases “[m]y speech is the product of circumstance” and “my language appears here as it naturally flows”. Circumstance referred to this specific circumstance, which is this conversation, which you stated clearly that is how we “should” be talking given how we aren’t acquainted. Then you state that your language is not in fact a product of circumstance, but as you talk naturally. Those two don’t mean the same thing, so both wording and context are extremely important. And given how you used the first one, it isn’t that hard, given all of your other comments, to misinterpret that statement and come to the same conclusion. As to your statement about how they mean the same thing, how was I supposed to know that you meant that you speaking like you are means this is how you talk normally from your comments?
”Regardless of the education of others, I have had a rather good one. I do not intend to waste it by speaking in a form so full, flat and unprofitable…” Wow that is rather arrogant isn’t it and now you have insulted my wordmanship by saying that. You stated that you won’t give an apology so I actually can take that as a direct insult. I talk here like I would normally, and saying that I speak in a “dull, flat and unprofitable [form]” again insults me and by unprofitable, I can interpret that as a direct insult the education I’ve received and to all of the teachers and professors that I’ve had over the years. I don’t demand that you talk that way, I merely pointed out why I don’t use those words, and don’t like the wording as it commonly leads to misinterpretations about what words mean in context. I actually had to look up what “videlicet” meant, which leads to my next point.
Using words that do not come up very often, that is in books, textbooks, the internet, normal speech, etc. causes people to waste time looking up words, and then if they have multiple definitions, they have to guess how the word is being used and that again leads to misinterpretation. If I’m having a conversation, I don’t want to have to look up words, or carry a dictionary around to understand what is being said. Talking using words that you think or know that your opposite will have to look up, is arrogant. Normal people, or at least anyone I’ve meet, don’t want to have to look up words during a conversation or ask their opposite to explain them. It is excusable if they look up what a word means, and then guess incorrectly on how it is used because they have either never seen it before, or have seen it only a handful of times. I’m pretty sure people still read, but some of the words you have used thus far I have either never seen before, or only a handful of times.
As to your third point, you have now actually called me a cretin because I had to look up a word that you used, and then proceed to guess how it is used. You stated that you will not tone down your words and that anyone should be able to understand what you are saying, and then if they do not, then they at fault for having a lack of education and if they don’t know how they are used, then they are also at fault for having a lack of education. By saying that you won’t tailor your speech to entertain cretins then you are insulting anyone, i.e. calling them a cretin, who has to look up a word you use, or guess what a word mean in the context in which it is used. I’m almost certain that others reading this have had to look up words, and then guess how they are used, so you called them cretins as well. While many of the definitions are similar, similar =/= the same.
As to the language, I thought I was clear, but I guess not. Obscenities are not permitted, unless it is a direct quote like we have on Jack’s page. People have been banned for using obscenities on talk pages before, and I’m positive it will happen again. I did not contradict myself, you are putting words in my mouth that I did, which is very insulting I might add. I had no idea that you would have guess wrong about what words I meant as carp, duck, and sink aren’t inappropriate/crude in any way. You know perfectly well what three words I’m talking about, and if you don’t, then perhaps I actually need to break the policy and list them. The policy is that if it isn’t “G” rated by the MPAA, then it isn’t allowed. Obscenities are not permitted as they aren’t “G” rated, and frankly they have no place in conversation and again by my interpretation is those aren’t covered by the “leeway” policy. Words like the ones I linked earlier are what I considered covered, as I hear those words slip during arguments, but the bottom line is that obscenities are not permitted on talk pages as they are crude/inappropriate language. Again I didn’t contradict myself, I stated quite clearly what I said, but apparently I wasn’t clear enough.
Finally how do I render myself guilty? This is something I’d like to know. Lancer1289 22:04, November 19, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Galaxy

Mass Effect Galaxy is part of the Mass Effect series. Being a spin-off doesn't change this. It's not a part of the trilogy, but it is as much a part of the series as are the books and comics. It is, after all, listed in the Series footer template, and under the Mass Effect Series tab on the navigation menu. Denying that it is part of the series is equivalent to saying that both the Nav Bar and the Series footer, as well as many other items on this wiki, are flat-out wrong. SpartHawg948 23:39, November 12, 2010 (UTC)

Well that does have a point, but I was looking at it from the perspecitve of the main series. However after reading your edit summary and looking through the history, Jacob was only listed for about 11 minutes before it was removed by Teugene on April 16. Now I might have missed something, but that is the only instance I could find where Jacob was listed. Lancer1289 00:43, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
I know it's been listed elsewhere. May have been the Jacob page, where it also seems to have been removed. Regardless, it's valid information, and valid information should not be judged on the basis of how long it was in the article before being erroneously removed. Additionally, there really is no such thing as the "main series". There's the series, and then there is the trilogy, which is part of the series. "Main series" is a concept that really doesn't exist here, which is why we have a series template with a subsection for the "Main Trilogy", and not a series template and a "Main Series" template or some such. SpartHawg948 00:50, November 13, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't mean to judge the information based on how long it was there, I was just saying that I saw your edit summary, looked thorugh the history, and that was the only point where I saw it listed on Joker's page. It may have been on Jacob's page as well, and judging by thi I might have removed that as well. However you do have a point, it is still part of the series. However again, I just commented on your edit summary, not harm intended. 00:54, November 13, 2010 (UTC)


Obviously, you contribute a lot to this wiki, but you don't own it and you aren't right 100% of the time. If I experience something during gameplay and report it and you decide to start an undo war for your power trip, that is immature.

No and see your talk page for a response. Bugs are tricky things and you aren't always right 100% of the time. Lancer1289 03:26, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Skepsis Trivia

Please explain why you deleted my trivia entry from the page of the Skepsis system. Deteugma 03:43, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Probably because: A) It's already there, and B) It's already there in the proper location. That'd be my guess, anyways. SpartHawg948 03:46, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict x2)Now that I've had it happen, I hate the new edit conflict notification system. Now back to the matter at hand. + +
First because that is not now we handle trivia for System pages, see the MoS on system pages for that. Second, because we already have it mentioned in the appropiate place. Lancer1289 03:51, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Ah, I see. The etymology that's there currently is pretty poor: it doesn't mean "thought" and can't be plural. Deteugma 03:48, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

"Skepsi" (Σκέψη) isn't a Greek worda, and the letter eta (η) is never transcribed with the letter i. Deteugma 03:50, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

After an admittedly cursory examination, I can find at least one institute of higher learning (The University of Kent, in the United Kingdom), which would disagree. [1] SpartHawg948 03:52, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)And this isn't the place to argue this. May I recommend the Talk:Skepsis page where this is more appropiate. Please.
And to Spart's comment, nice discovery. Lancer1289 03:54, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Ditto for Professor Paul Cartledge, the A.G. Leventis Professor of Greek Culture at Cambridge, if his book I Symvoli tis Arhkaias Spartis stin Politiki Skepsi kai Praktiki (The Contribution of Ancient Sparta to Political Thought and Practice) is any indicator. SpartHawg948 03:55, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

RE: The Asari/Culture revision

Hi Lancer1289, my memory failed me and I deleted a relevant encounter on the Citadel with a similar one that occurs on Illium. Though they are similar, I re-inserted the one I deleted and added the second feeling that it captures an emotional aspect of the topic not cited. Thanks, I have been using wikias for a long time, it will be fun to contribute more!


Yeah the only thing I have is that we don't need to list everything, especially dialogue. We really don't encourage dialogue in articles, unless it is necessary, and I really don't think that it belonged there. As to the second example, that was really an outright guess. I quote: "The salarian is obviously insecure and saddened about being 35 (the life-span of his species averages around 40) and having a seemingly immortal wife and child." That is what we call an opinion, do you know for an absolute fact that the salarian is insecure or saddened? He may be depressed or just talking a look back on his short life. As to the second bit, after the parenthesis, that is also an opinionated statement. Neither of those really have a place in the articles as they are presented from an encyclopedic POV. As for the stuff inside the parenthesis, that really didn't have a lot of relevance in the article. Lancer1289 06:33, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
No problem, I agreed with your edit, I'm not vain. That encounter on Illium is quite depressing. A youtube capture has comments that state that it made allot of people tear up. I've been looking at the work you've put into all of this; it is much appreciated. I'll keep the editing guidelines in mind going forward. Thanks. MASHDEFECT 06:44, November 15, 2010 (UTC)
No problem, any other questions, don't hesitate to ask. Lancer1289 06:45, November 15, 2010 (UTC)

Removal of Neural Shock from ME talents in the Tech article

Hi Lancer, I removed Neural Shock because my understanding of the ME section of the Tech article was that it was a list of talent "trees", not of the powers that you get from investing in the talent trees. Since Neural Shock is the Medicine-derived power, it seemed inappropriate to list it there. Please let me know if I've misunderstood anything. Rtl42 07:01, November 17, 2010 (UTC)

Well considering what is on the page, and the Neural Shock link goes to the Power for ME2, it does seem kind of inappropiate to list it on that page. Also none of the other abilities like Shield Boost or Overload are listed, and when looking at it a second time, it either needs to be all or nothing, and listing the trees is more appropiate. Looks like I need to do some adjustments. Lancer1289 13:35, November 17, 2010 (UTC)


Lancer I recieved your message and I read the manualand it was not in violation due to the fact that one of the key examples in the manual talked about spelling it armor and armour in the same article being wrong. I chose to change armour to armor to keep consistency with the manual.

The problem is that they weren't in the same sentence and the example in the manual does not apply to this situation. The situation described is one where it specifically says "Human Armor", which uses American spelling, and saying armor in general. This is not the case here, it was referring to armor in general, so armor and armour are both acceptable. Also since you wanted to discuss it, you should have responded on your page, rather than leave me a message, in the wrong section and not using the "Leave Message" feature. Lancer1289 03:22, November 26, 2010 (UTC)


11/27/2010 - Eldfell-Ashland Energy Stonewalls Quarian Conclave In Mining Dispute

“Eldfell-Ashland Energy is refusing to meet with representatives from the Quarian Conclave as they clash over rights to rich veins of palladium discovered on several asteroids on the outskirts of the Nubian Expanse. "Eldfell-Ashland's sole contribution to the project was to appear with an armed frigate after we finished surveying, then demand that we vacate the unclaimed area," says Captain. "We will continue mining until Eldfell-Ashland presents the Conclave with proof of ownership or speaks to us without hiding behind a gun sight. We would prefer both."”

Looks like FridgeRaider forgot to do the next CDN, so I took the opportunity to improvise and attempt to redeem my good name. After fiddling with my TV's brightness and contrast settings, I got it to where I could recognize most of the words in the CDN; the result of that is the above transcript (I have literally nothing else to do right now). However, unfamiliar words, specifically the name of the quarian captain in the report, remained unreadable. I'm giving you what I transcribed so that you can double-check it and add the quarian's name to it. If it's correct, it'll save you a few minutes of manual copying.
And I'm going back to my apartment on Sunday for sure, so things should be back to normal then. -- Commdor (Talk) 05:49, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Sorry catching up from what I missed. I just got back from a concert by the TSO and my hearing is still a little off, and probably will be for a while. I'll get to it in about 10 minutes so double check. Oh and take a guess who the TSO is. Lancer1289 06:06, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
Ok the Captain's name was sorted out and I double checked the rest of it as the captain's name was the only thing missing. I've since posted it. Lancer1289 06:19, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
Didn't forget - someone killed my internets. But don't worry, they got better! An attempted murder case has concluded that my ISP is entirely at fault, and they have been sentenced to sit on the naughty step for 20 minutes. It won't happen again...until it does. FridgeRaider88 09:53, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
That's too bad but at least it got sorted out. Lancer1289 18:26, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Missing Missions

Where do you propose these missions get referenced then?

They show up in the game as missions, so they're not on the Assignments page. They weren't in the guide, so I nearly missed them. I think they need to be clearly listed somewhere with either the missions or the assignments. Where do you think they should go?

--Yoda of Borg 18:23, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

But only the major plot missions get referenced in the guide. If that was the case to include all missions, then we'd have to put the Lair of the Shadow Broker (mission), the Citadel: Captain Bailey, and the Citadel: The Council missions as well. I'm surprised you only listed one to begin with. However, since they are all optional missions, and if you include one, then you must include them all. And again since those are completely optional, I really can't see the justification to list them.
They aren't on the assignments page because they aren't assignments, they are missions, and after sorting that out a while ago, and in line with the policy, missions are listed on the Missions page, while assignments are listed on the Assignments page. If we include one side mission, then we have to include all of the side missions, and that just doesn't sound appealing as it would already lengthen the extremely long page. They just don't have a place, given their optional nature, and again, if we include one, then we must include them all. And remember, you don't have to do Liara's missions to get the info on Thane and Samara. Lancer1289 18:32, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
I figured anybody that bought the DLC would know about those missions. I wasn't even aware of the Citadel: Captain Bailey and Citadel: The Council missions. (Looking back, I completed them without even realizing they were entries in my Journal.) The Liara missions seemed like the only ones out of place (still not sure why they're missions and not assignments).
I've tried looking for a Missions page in the past, but couldn't find it so I thought there was only the Assignments page and the guides. Now that I know about the Missions page, I can stop reading the guide page. Thanks for pointing that out. Sometimes it's so frustrating how unorganized can be and how hard it is to find things. --Yoda of Borg 18:46, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
I really can't see why you brought Wikia into this, as we are the ones who make the site. However this is the first time I've heard of someone not being able to find the Missons page, normally it's the Assignments page. But whatever. Lancer1289 18:56, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
No, I didn't mean it like that. I love that Wikia exists and allows people to create so many diverse repositories for whatever subject they care. (I don't know why it took so long after the creation of the World Wide Web before Wikis took off.) However, since each little community is so small and can organize their material differently, so much of the content is incomplete, unorganized, or in places other than one would expect. You have to learn a new/different structure for each of the sites - then since the structure isn't always clear, it's hard to reinforce because people (me included) don't always put things in the right place.
BTW, at the top of your talk page, you say you will see when someone replies to one of your posts on THEIR talk page. How does that work? (Surely it's automated and you don't keep checking back on every talk page you've ever edited looking for replies?) --Yoda of Borg 19:13, November 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, some wikis are very hard to navigate I'll give you that. However it is nice that each wiki does get to set its own rules and how they naviagate. Granted it's not always the easiest system, but it does have a bit of fun learning how a site works.
As to the message, Wikia has tools that allow patrollers, admins, and others who are interested in maintaing a wiki, to see all of the chagnes on the site. Special:WikiActivity and Special:RecentChanges are the current two tools. So that way I can see if someone replies to a message without having to check each page, because that would take a while. I hate cross page conversations, and yet people still leave me messages about something I've said on their talk page. I just can't stand that as it becomes hard to read a conversation and hard for anyone else to jump in. Lancer1289 19:21, November 27, 2010 (UTC)

Mass Effect Wiki translation

I would like to create a Mass Effect Wiki in Brazilian Portuguese, but it didn't seem appropriate to do so without asking an administrator. Is it OK? How can I create it so that it is linked at the bottom of the homepage?

The last time this came up, when someone asked if the wiki could be translated into Hungarian, Spart didn't object, and I really don't see a problem with it this time either. I certainly don’t have any objections to it either. Lancer1289 17:23, November 29, 2010 (UTC)

Data pad at the end of Mass Effect 2

Every single alternative suggestion that you were able to list is speculation in and of itself. I can assert that the image on the data pad is a Reaper (spelt Reaper, not Repaer), because at the end of the cinematic the exact same vessel can be seen amongst the armada of Reaper vessels. And even if it were not visible, it is clear from the design style that it is of Reaper origin and not a design for a Prothean vessel as you speculate it might be. Unless you are suggesting that the Protheans designed the Reapers which would imply that the Protheans are as old as the Reapers are, which of course they are not. As for the image itself, the most intelligent conclusion that anyone can come up with is that it is the schematic of a Reaper of some kind, unless you are prepared to suggest - as SpartHawg948 has - that it is merely picture, a piece of artwork that Joker thought Shepard might like to admire. I concede that the Reaper might not be Harbinger, but it is DEFINITELY a Reaper.

Don't put words in my mouth. I suggested it could merely be an image of a Reaper, by which I meant it could be, as you say, a schematic. I never said anything even remotely resembling the assertion that it is "a piece of artwork that Joker thought Shepard might like to admire". I'd appreciate it if you not misrepresent my words as such. SpartHawg948 02:54, December 7, 2010 (UTC)
Wow I merely point out a few other possibilities and I get my head chewed off. While yes it could be a Reaper, it could also be something else. Lancer1289 03:14, December 7, 2010 (UTC)


While we're on/near the subject of datapads, Lancer, I noticed that you just deleted an article called "Data Pad". I read the talk page and an idea popped into my head: a glossary. Things like the datapad don't have enough info to justify an entire article, but a glossary would be nice. --Swooshy 04:49, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Is is really so hard to leave a new message. This has no bearing what so ever on the conversation above. Are the messages I have at the top really so hard to read.
A glossary of what exactly? Every single datapadin the game? Wow that would be the largest repeat and needless duplication of informaiton I've seen. Datapads, along with emails, audio logs, and anything else, are put into missions and assignment articles where appropiate and I don't see one valid reason to duplicate information in one massive article that would serve no purpose except that, needless duplication of informaiton. Lancer1289 05:05, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
Not what I meant. The glossary would be for jargon or anything not big enough for its own article. Something else that could be in the glossary (just an example, maybe not a good one) would be whatever condition Joker has. --Swooshy 05:10, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Um yeah I still can't see the justification behind that. Most of that kind of information is listed in appropiate places and linked when we can. Putting a glossary for terms just doesn't sit right with me. It would be a needlessly long article and what's to stop trivial matters/characters/anything form getting in there. It would be a mess, as the only way you could reasonably organize that is alphabetically, and it would leave the door open to needless things getting added. I don't see a reason to create it, it would be a pain to maintain and control what kind of information goes there. Lancer1289 05:18, December 10, 2010 (UTC)


Just wanted to point out... if the SR-71 is a fighter, it's the worst fighter ever. Rumor is that fighters are supposed to be armed, so they can "fight" other planes. The SR-71 is a reconnaissance aircraft. It's only "armament" is cameras. A reconnaissance aircraft, much like the SSV Normandy is a reconnaissance frigate. Pretty close to the same thing, isn't it? Sorry, but as an Air Force man who loves military aviation, that one got my a little riled. If the SR-71 is a fighter, than the F-15 is a cargo plane... SpartHawg948 05:15, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Ok so I was referring to the type of airframe, and before you start correcting me, or something else, please give me some leeway and hear me out first. No, the BB isn't a fighter, there's no getting around that, no guns/missiles, but it also isn't the same as say an AC-130 Gunship, or the B-52. The SR-71 has more in common with a fighter than it does with bombers, gunships, or cargo aircraft like the C-17. Granted it was probably off, but that's where I'm sitting here, and I hope you can at least see my reasoning. I still have a problem with that trivia, as I could also say that the M-15 is possibly a reference to the M16 based on designation, purpose, app. ammo capacity (mag not total), and bullets per pull of the trigger (yes I butchered that as I forgot the term, and I wasn't thinking of burst fire). And I'd really have a problem with that too. The Normandy is armed with several different types of weapon systems, and can probably hold it's own for a time. However like all small ships, what it can't outshoot, it can generally outrun. Oh the other hand, the BB must rely on its cruising altitude, speed, and its electronics warfare suite to outrun, well...anything. I think I got that EWS term right. Right? Lancer1289 05:33, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
But the "M-16 vs M15" comparison is just silly. They are both types of gun, and a very common type of gun at that. Of course there will be some similarities like that. Reconnaissance craft are fairly uncommon, very specialized craft. You;re telling me you don't see any possible link between a reconnaissance plane designated SR-71 and a reconnaissance ship designated SR-1? Really? No link? Between the Strategic Reconnaissance-71 and the Stealth Reconnaissance-1? None at all? Finally, no, you're pretty off-track alleging that the SR-71 has more in common with fighters than it does with bombers or cargo planes. It literally has as little in common with fighters as it does with cargo planes or bombers. It's big, stupid fast (way too fast to be practical for a fighter... you'll note in the entire history of manned aviation, only one Mach 3 fighter has ever entered service...ever... and that was partly because it was intended to shoot down SR-71s), and has nearly no maneuverability. Oh, and it leaks like a sieve. Fighters are small, fast (but not too fast, as in Mach 3 too fast), very maneuverable, and don't leak fuel everywhere. Planes that are big, un-maneuverable, and leak fuel are called bombers and cargo planes. No one said the SR-1 and SR-71 are identical in concept, but they are similar (as even you must agree that when performing recon, the SR-1 would want to avoid having to outshoot anything, and you acknowledge that the SR-1 is intended to outrun some foes... kinda like the SR-71), but there are some major similarities, especially in the designation, intended mission, and even in the visuals. SpartHawg948 05:55, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
Well when you put it that way I guess there is more in common than I thought. Oh well. Anyway my menory seems to be slipping, but what was that Mach 3 fighter again? Lancer1289 06:12, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
The MiG-25. SpartHawg948 06:17, December 10, 2010 (UTC)
Thanks. My memory for just about anything seems to be slipping, curse finals next week. Lancer1289 06:39, December 10, 2010 (UTC)

Asari diplomacy & blood money.

Hello, Lancer. About Asari Diplomacy and you not being able to see the connection between the Shepard/Nassana final conversation and Jesus Christ Superstar. Check this: [2].

I don't want your blood money.

Think of the things
You can do with that money
Choose any charity
Give to the poor
We've noted your motives
We've noted your feelings
This isn't blood money
It's a fee nothing more

Shepard's "I don't want your blood money" is a direct quotation, and Nassana suggests to "give it away to some charity" and to "consider it a fee". I'd say this is a clear enough connection.

And what else connects them apart from dialogue. Nothing what so ever. Trivia that connects things that have no relation must have something else apart from dialogue, or visual comparisons. I cannot see one connection between a piece of dialogue from a scifi video game and a musical. Also note that absolutely nothing is a reference without devconfirmation, which you don't have. That said, I can't see the connection and it is extremely subjective considering they are completely different circumstances. It isn't trivia based on our policies here, so please do not readd it again. Lancer1289 00:29, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
  • Addendum: I saw that you readded it and this isn't how we do this. If you have a problem with the undo, then bring it up on the talk page before you put it back in. Doing what you did almost never works out well. Again it isn't based on the reasons I gave above, so again I please ask you to not readd it again. Lancer1289 00:32, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Smoothing things over

Now, since what I thought would be small inoffensive changes turned out to be anything but, for the sake of openness and moving forward, I'll state what I'm going to do next:

1. Remove the series templates from ME's two DLC pack pages, since the series template no longer directly links to them.

2. Add to those same pages sentences which will point to and link to both pages. Rough example: "Bring Down the Sky is one of two DLC packs released for Mass Effect, the other is Pinnacle Station" and vice-versa. Note: I've considered making an ME DLC template instead, but that's nothing more than an idea at this point and I don't know how you and Spart would receive it, because it would be basically making a template that links to only two pages. Anyway, this template thing isn't something I'm doing now.
Any objections? -- Commdor (Talk) 03:32, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Hmm well I'll answer to each individually.
1. No objections to that. Since we removed it from CN, it needs to go from those as well.
2. An ME DLC template is a tricky issue. However, the only thing I see is that we need to have consistency, so I feel that we need to make one. I don't know about a pic, but while it does only link two pages, we do need to make one as I'm sure the now officially announced ME3 will have DLC. I will have no objections to the sentence being put in either way. I do fell that for consistency's sake, we need an ME DLC template. Lancer1289 03:41, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
Hooray, no hard feelings (I hope?)! I'll remove the templates and add the sentences. As for making the ME DLC template, I'll start putting one together tomorrow, see how it looks (still trying to process the ME3 announcement, so my work ethic is nearly shot. That trailer surpassed my expectations in every way, far superior to ME2's announcement trailer. And is it just me, or was the soldier/narrator sniping from Big Ben a real, live-action person, and not CG?). -- Commdor (Talk) 03:47, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
No hard feelings and yes the trailer was far superior in many ways to ME2's annoucement trailer. Live action always beats CGI. Lancer1289 03:57, December 12, 2010 (UTC)


In the UK (and most of Europe), "holidays" refers to summer as this is the time when most people go on holiday while school is out for the summer holidays. That's why I'm adding it to the article as, as stated NOT EVERYBODY IS AMERICAN - it needs clarifying.Kendroche 22:06, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

See your talk page. As we know in America, not everyone is Christian. "Holiday" =/= Christmas. SpartHawg948 22:07, December 12, 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Um no it doesn't and thanks for yelling at me when I just pointed out something. It doesn't need clairifcation as stated on your talk page and on the ME3 talk page. Lancer1289 22:09, December 12, 2010 (UTC)

Completionist Note

The note I added to the completionist achievement guide is a direct reflection of what is located in the notes here: Feros:_Data_Recovery. If you don't obtain the assignment and get the data from the terminal before finishing the main Feros quest you lose access to the base where the terminal is located. The elevator goes dead and you'll have an uncompleted assignment in your logs permanently. This happened to me because I didn't read the notes on that assignment page. Jmjimmy 05:22, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

And you will note that can happen with any other Feros assignment, Feros: Varren Meat etc, and they don't have a note, nor do I think they need one. You can't complete them if you leave in the Mako, and that is clearly stated in the opening bullet. I think there are also a few other assignments that you can miss as well, which don't have notes. I don't think putting a note there fits, especially when that kind of information should go on the assignment page itself, which it already is. Lancer1289 05:29, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

How to kill a reaper...

How do you suppose they will end the reapers in the next game....

Beamonde 18:13, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

I would just rather wait and see. I have theories but I'm sure it will be interesting. Lancer1289 18:15, December 13, 2010 (UTC)

Tali Pic

What are you talking about, that IS the default male commander Shepard in the picture. I play only default Shepard in the games 'cause that's the true Shepard. And FYI, I found that picture on YOUR Mass Effect Wikia, why would you have it there if we can't use it. And I don't like going on google 'cause half of the pictures there are crap and have nothing to do with the series. It's the romance section of the page, and that picture is clearly a romance between Tali and Shepard. Why are you making such a big deal of this, I'm just adjusting something that I take to heart in this game. Why you have a problem with improvement is beyond me. --Pccraine 04:45, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Well let's see, the image you put in is of low quality and frankly the picture you replaced is much higher quality. So I do not see one valid reason why you replaced it. As ot it being default, there are a few things that I call into question about that, and your reputation for putting in correct information isn't very good, considering you were banned for removing valid and correct information. I also question the first image, as we do try to discourage images with Shepard to being with, as that also appears to be changed somewhat from default.
And it is so hard to respond on your talk page, like I asked at the very top of my talk page, or to leave me a new message? Lancer1289 04:52, December 14, 2010 (UTC)

Bekenstein pic

You keep removing my screenshot from Kasumi's DLC that I put in, why is that?

Well let's see, since there is no Codex picture for Bekenstein, and the Codex entry section is copied verbatim, using DLP, from the Codex, no additions or subtractions. Also with one of the edits, where's your source that says the city is the capital? We never hear anything that says the city is the capital and as such it is speculation, which isn't allowed in articles. As to the picture itself, there really is no way put it in because of the way the article is formatted. Lancer1289 05:57, December 17, 2010 (UTC)


Sorry, I got slightly over excited when I saw that. Thanks for the help and i will be more wary in my edits in the future 07:24, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah considering we don't have much right now, we really need sources for something like that. Lancer1289 07:29, December 17, 2010 (UTC)

Aite Codex

Then you would have won that bet. I went through the trouble of pulling up the Codex entry, and it does in fact use "latter". You beat me to the undo. -- Commdor (Talk) 07:17, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Your reputation for accuracy on Codex entries and CDN speaks for itself. If I was wrong, then I was wrong, but latter also fit better there than later considering the context of the sentence. Also isn't 2:20 where you are now? Aren't you tired? Lancer1289 07:21, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
A little tired, but I'm a night owl. I'm usually good until 4, but since I'm back at my parents' house for the holidays I have to hit the hay around now so I can wake up before noon and "be a part of the family" (shudder...). -- Commdor (Talk) 07:36, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
Ah well that's always fun. Anyway I'll be enjoying my family's annual Christmas Party tomorrow, so I might be incommunicado for a while. Something always happens there so I know I'll have some fun. Lancer1289 07:45, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Reading new and archived emails.

I don't own a HDTV so I come here to read everything from in game such as secondary codex entries. Only thing I haven't been able to find is the messages from the private terminal. If I could get any help with that I would be forever grateful. Thanks. BornAProphet 08:15, December 18, 2010 (UTC)

Private terminal messages are listed where they are appropiate. For example the email for the M-29 Incisor is on the M-29's page. We don't have a page for all of the private terminal messages, and to be honest, I don't see a need to create one. We already have emails listed where appropiate, like walkthoughs, characters, etc, and that would just be needless repeat of information. Lancer1289 17:57, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
I appreciate the reply. I hadn't viewed such things as the M-29 since I don't think I have picked one up in game yet. Nor am I using a walk-through. To know the relevant information can be found is great. Thanks again. BornAProphet 22:00, December 18, 2010 (UTC)
Sure any time. Lancer1289 03:54, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding deletion of contributions

Sorry to bother, but since I considered resuming my contributions to this wikia, you have deleted everything I have added. Now I understand deleting the picture with the HUD, but I always thought of a wiki as a collection of knowledge that is available about a certain topic - seen this way, I fail to understand why, for instance, you deleted every mention of the occurrences of the Space Beetle. Looking at the articles about the Pyjaks, the Harvesters or the Space Cows, I can quickly see where to find this species, you may want to delete these as well. Regarding Hymele I can see the possibility of a transplaneted species, but I just found it odd to find any life there, so I added it as a trivia - having seen many trivia of this kind.

Maybe this sounds as if I dwell on unimportant topics a bit too much, but you have to understand that it discourages me immensely when everything I add is deleted almost immediately.

Knuff 17:23, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

The mention in the Space Beetle article was just unnecessary as we don't need to list everything. There are also a few other planets in ME where they are encountered and not listed either, and a few more in ME2. The same applies to Pyjacks. There are a few other planets that aren't listed either.
As to Hymele, there is clearly life there with the Mining complex, considering the datapads you find there that indicate that it was inhabited for some time. The beetles could have been transplanted there during a cargo shipment or brought there as a pet and it got loose. Since life on the planet was whipped out, it may be the first states of terraforming the planet back to a garden-class world. That really isn't trivia and more trivial matters considering there are many other reasonable explanations. And I'm unsure what other trivia you are referring to.
As do discouraging, it is not meant to do that, it is just we do have standards and when something doesn't meet those standards, then it is removed. Lancer1289 17:43, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
I was refering to trivia about inconsistencies between the planets description and what you encounter on the planet, so I thought of this fact as useful, no matter if it is just the first stage of terraforming. Another thing about the images with parts of the HUD visible: As I understand that this is a wiki about the whole universe of all things Mass Effect and not just the games, would it be fair to remove the HUD properly via image processing, so that the concerned images serve to illustrate without obviously showing game content? Knuff 17:51, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
But again that is more a trivial matter than trivia, and you failed to provide an example so I can compart it to something. There is clearly life on the planet, and the evidence of a well developed mining facility, so maybe if you landed in an open area and didn't have any sort of industry around, maybe you would have something. However there is clearly life on the planet, and has been for some time. So that is a trivial matter rather than trivia. As to the image, yes if the HUD elements are removed, then it is better. Lancer1289 18:01, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
I don't like to disagree further, but that's what trivia is by definition - trivial matter. Of course trivia should be useful and not totally irrelevant on a page like this, but as I said before, I considered it useful and appropriate. Anyway - will try to improve for the future. Knuff 18:13, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
That is more of a case by case basis and we've had many examples in the past where something is trivial but gets added as trivia. One of the biggest is now the Illusive Man's eyes look like Renegade Shepard's implants. That is trivial not trivia. However this is again a case by case basis. Lancer1289 18:17, December 19, 2010 (UTC)

Lair of the Shadow Broker Morality Guide

Hey Lancer I recently updated the Morality Guide for ME2 to include the lair of the shadow broker dlc. I was able to confirm the morality points you get for every option except for the ones you get after defeating Tela Vasir. Do you know how I can find out if I got any points and how many of each did I get. (RobertX13 22:17, December 20, 2010 (UTC))

To be honest I really don't know. Usually, if you get any as they usually appear after a conversation even if there is a loading screen, cutscene, or both in the middle. As for that one, if no points appear, then you probably idn't get any. Lancer1289 22:21, December 20, 2010 (UTC)

One question

Does this wiki have an IRC channel set up? If not, I can get one set up for you guys. BlackSoulBlade 01:17, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

As far as I know we don't, but at the same time I'm not sure if we would want to have one. This is something that really needs to be taken up with the other admins, and perhaps the community as well. I say drop a message with SpartHawg948 and see what he says. Right now I'm really neutral on the matter. Lancer1289 01:21, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
Alright then, tell me the final verdict when all is said and done. BlackSoulBlade 01:24, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

ME Infobox implementation

Hi Lancer!

As you may be aware, the project to implement the ME enemy infobox has passed with no opposition. If you have a moment, do you think you could head to that page and give me a hand with getting the CSS implemented for everyone? As I recall, SpartHawg is still on a vacation of sorts, so you're my only hope! Thanks in advance. :)

Also, I've finally secured an apartment lease coming up on the New Year. Once I get all moved in from that, I should be able to contribute more than just sparingly. Hope you have a great holiday! -- Dammej (talk) 02:11, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Yeah Spart's in Florida enjoying time with his family. Meanwhile I don't know what it is like where you live, but here it is snowing, not hard but hard enough where it dumped about 3 inches or so. So since I'm living at home, I did our driveway and then I do a neighbor's as well. Even though the snow is light, like a powder actually, it still takes time. Anyway I'll get that code in. Lancer1289 03:36, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
Done, now back to Tiberian Wars. Lancer1289 03:40, December 21, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm actually in downtown Chicago right now. I just missed getting dusted by the snow. I'm up in the 46th floor of a building though, so I don't have to worry about shoveling. :P Looks like the CSS selectors are working. Thanks a lot! -- Dammej (talk) 03:51, December 21, 2010 (UTC)

Nobody cares

You needn't type so much about yourself and what you think on your profile page; nobody really cares. --Finnastaedybeactinadonkey 01:18, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Wow that was incredibly rude and not the best way to introduce yourself to this community, and one of the leaders of said community at that. Some people do read that, and if they don't, then I honestly don't care. It's my user page and I can do what I want with it. Seriously though, that was extremely rude for your first edit here. Lancer1289 01:58, December 22, 2010 (UTC)
I don't normally come right out and say what I think about people. I normally run it through a filter. But I can't help it this time. What a tool. I mean really, was that comment called for. Try making a productive comment instead of criticizing others for what they want to do with their user pages. Some people's kids. SpartHawg948 03:44, December 22, 2010 (UTC)

Ilos Trench Run colossus

Someone243 01:09, December 24, 2010 (UTC)I'm just nitpicking but you could snipe the first two colossus at the end near the Conduit without triggering the cutscene by parking the Mako at the top not going over the lip of the ramp you're supposed to go down

And this is on my talk page why exactly? Lancer1289 02:20, December 24, 2010 (UTC)

Shadow Broker Base Article modification

Hey Lancer I noticed you deleted my Shadow Broker Base modification. I spent a couple of hours running back and forth from the shadow broker ship to the various planets whose location I purchased on the galaxy map and quite some time writing it all down. I'd like to know why you deleted it and if there's somewhere on this wiki I can post that information. RobertX13 20:33, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

(edit conflict X4)Now I have confirmed that it is impossible to leave a new message and/or to not edit conversations that have no relevance to what is being asked. This conversation has absolutely no bearing on what the previous conversation, and what said section was about. Is "[i]f you have a question that has no bearing on a conversation that is under a heading, then please don't edit there" really so hard to follow? Or is pressing the "Leave Message" button so hard? Or failing to avoid causing edit conflicts four times over?
As to the question it was cut and dry needless repeat of information. We already have planets listed with Element Zero in the Element Zero article, and rich planets, planets with over 10,000 of said resource are already listed on the Planet Scanning page. I spent a lot of time filling those lists, scanning planets, and plugging in the information and duplicating the information on another page is just a needless repeat. I stated all of this in my edit summary as well. We already have the information posted in much more appropriate places and we don't need needless repeating of information. Lancer1289 20:44, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

ME3 Talk Page

It's getting a little ridiculous in its size. Shouldn't we archive it? Also, while on the subject, shouldn't most of that stuff be in the forums and not the talk page? Tanooki1432 21:05, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

It's not as long as some other pages were, and we do have a few rules about archiving and because the page is getting edited constantly, archiving it will be a challenge as conversations could be edited without notice.
As to the forums, yes probably most of it should be, but if you would look at the Talk:Mass Effect 2 page, most of the first archive of that one was the exact same thing. Sometimes we have to roll with the punches and the only thing I can see at this point is creating an official Mass Effect 3 discussion forum. We'd link and direct people to this discussion, but something tells me that more than a few people won't listen to it anyway. While yes talk pages are supposed to be about improving the article, sometimes we do have to roll with the punches. Lancer1289 21:19, December 26, 2010 (UTC)

15,000 Edits

Not sure that this is the place to leave this message, So feel free to delete it once you have read it. I just wanted to say congrats on 15,000 Edits. You have done a lot of work in the last couple years years. Hope I can speak for everyone when I say thank you for your time and effort and please keep up the good work. BornAProphet 09:13, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Actually almost all of them have been since Mass Effect 2 was released back in January. Before that it was only about sixty in the midddle of 2008. But thanks for leaving the message. :) Lancer1289 17:06, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Regarding Pages on DLC

I was wondering if having images on these pages would be permitted.(i.e. the promotional Terminus Weapon and armor image on the page for the Terminus Weapon and Armor DLC)--AdmiralPedro1stFleet 17:07, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

Seriously, is pressing the new message button, instead of editing the whole page really that hard? It is what I ask at the top so why does this seem to be so hard?
As to the question, I don't see a problem right now, but I'll just have to wait and see what they look like. Lancer1289 17:13, December 27, 2010 (UTC)

DLC XBOX 360 Sale 12/28/10

Not sure where to post this or if the info is already out there. Apologies ahead of time if so. Today Xbox marketplace is having a sale for: Lair of the Shadow Broker 75% off for 200 MS points, Overlord 64% Off for 200 MS points and Kasumi's Stolen Memory 64% for 200 MS points.--BornAProphet 23:53, December 28, 2010 (UTC)

And where would we put that exactly? A one day thing isn't worth mentioning, especially when said day is almost over. If this was a permanent price drop then yes that would be worth mentioning, but a one day sale, no. Lancer1289 01:46, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Fair Enough, thats why I asked wasn't sure if maybe there was a news section or what not. Hopefully one or two people might still see the message here and be able to pick up the DLC. Thanks --BornAProphet 01:58, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Multiple Article edits

Lancer I could finish editing the ammo upgrade section in one edit if I knew how to edit the entire page.

Just hit the edit button at the top of the article next to the title. That will allow you to edit the whole article.
Also please see my note at the top of the page because I don't like cross page conversations, so it will continue here. Also is that note really hard to read? I'm not trying to be offensive or anything, but I do need to know if it is visible when you open the page. Lancer1289 02:25, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Never mind

Never mind, disregard the last message. I found the "edit button" on the top of the page. RobertX13 02:22, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Ok then. Lancer1289 02:25, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Article modification

In case you're wondering what changes I have made to the weapon, armor, and ammo upgrades articles you should know that I've added the "+" and "-" sighs whitout quotation marks on the weapon statistics. I did so because that's how they appear in the game when you're viewing the items on the menu. And I think it's important that the signs be there so I'm hoping you won't erase them.

By the way, about my previous edit of the shadow broker base, I want you to know that I posted those planets in the article because the developers at Bioware thought they were important enough to be included in the dlc and I wanted to spare someone else the trouble of crisscrossing the galaxy and spending credits to get them. I would like to make an article that is a list of planets whose location can be purchased in the shadow broker base and add a link to it on the shadow broker base page, if its alright with you. RobertX13 03:19, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

As the first issue, if that is how they appear in the game, then that is how they should appear here as well.
As to the second issue, why would we just create yet another article that is ultimately just a needless repeat of information. We already have much more information about rich planets, and a list of planets where eezo is located in the Planet Scanning and Element Zero articles respectively. I cannot see one reason to duplicate information when it is already accessible and in more appropriate places. And didn't we already go over this on this page? Lancer1289 03:26, December 29, 2010 (UTC)

Glitch confirmation

If you have read my little addition to the trivia section of Mordin Solus, then you have an idea of what I am asking. Can you please see if the glitch works with other characters? Jacobs, for example,or Kasumi's.

   Sincerely, AvP66.
Yeah I have already removed that as something that big requires confirmation. Frankly I'm much more willing to believe it was unique to your game, rather than something in the game itself. Also we do have knowledge that if a suicide mission is attempted without completing loyalty missions, then they are unavaliable afterwards. Lancer1289 04:38, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Removing shop links

I've been adding them, you've been deleting them. Why? It's useful cross-linking and hardly clutter. This wiki doesn't have an easy way to figure out what things are available where, a staple of RPG guides. Hythloday1 23:15, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

And so you just add the shops. Frankly I don't see the need to link them at all, nor do I see the reason of putting them on pages where you have so far only included minor things. What about mroe notable locations, like the Citadel Tower or other locations. I don't see the need to link them on the main article page, espeically when everthing is already included in categories. Also note that it violates our Manual of Style on Planets. See Mass Effect Wiki:Manual of Style/Planets. They don't need to be linked, nor should they be. Lancer1289 23:23, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
There's a lot in there to respond to. Seems like your objection is that I put them under the label "Notable Locations"; I would have put it under "Shops" but no template exists for that and I don't know how to create one. I'd appreciate some help doing so. I do think it's pretty obvious that shops in an RPG qualify as notable location, especially since in ME2 there are only four worlds on which you can buy anything, but I take the point that, from an in-character perspective, the Zakera Cafe is several orders of magnitude less notable than, say, the Presidium Tower. I don't understand why a reader would not want that information; the way ME2 is structured a player comes to a place and wants to know what he or she can buy. The fact that the links are available in the Upgrade Guide is nice but isn't a reason not to organize the cross-linking better. Hythloday1 23:34, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
Ok then respond to this, it violates our Manual of Style, and that is immediate grounds for removal. So why should we put it in when it violates the thing that governs articles? There are also only four locations in ME where you can purchase stuff, but I noticed you failed to add those to the appropaite article. There is no listing of Notable Locations on say the Citadel, where I'd argue that there would be plenty. However it is againt our MoS and frankly I don't think we need a list anyway. As to a template, we don't need one like we do for missions and assignemnts, and frankly I don't see one reason for creating one. The shop pages already tell where they are located and they are listed in the appropaite category. There wouldn't be a section for shops, nor do I see a reason to create one. Lancer1289 23:41, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
Fine, I will start a talk discussion on the Manual of Style page. Will you respond there? Hythloday1 23:43, December 30, 2010 (UTC)
I probably would, but I would just be repeating myself. I don't see why they should be added in the first place. Lancer1289 23:47, December 30, 2010 (UTC)

Re: image attribution


I noticed that you recently added some site CSS which appears to have the goal of removing the "image attribution" from thumbnails. Was there a change of heart from Wikia regarding that? I also noticed that it doesn't seem to be having the desired effect, at least in Chrome. Does it work on your end? If not, I've got a pretty simple CSS change that (should) fix that.

Side note: I'm almost moved into my new place, so I think I'll be able to devote some time to the very belated Wikia skin update project and others at some point in the new year. -- Dammej (talk) 04:42, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Yes Wikia had a change of heart about that. They said it is now optional, along with some new features that both Spart and myself wanted to ax quickly, and did so. Although I'm apparently a spammer to Wikia as my emails got dumped into their spam folder. See Spart's talk page for more on that. :)
As to it working, it doesn't appear to be on IE, but if you say it is working on Chorme, then I'm just going to have to take your word on that. I just checked with Chrome and it doesn’t appear to be working for me, nor is it working on IE. If you can fix that, then please do so as I hate, HATE, that feature. They could turn off the other two "few and exciting" features, which were adding three images to articles at the bottom under a "Read More" section, which was not only distracting and annoying, but unnecessary IMHO. The second feature was adding a gallery to category pages that displayed images for the 8 most popular pages in a category. However if there was no picture, then it would take the first few words, and made that into an image. That also applied to the "Read More" sections. Needless to say we got rid of those as they were both distracting and unnecessary. Yet they couldn't turn off image attribution yet and I still see it. I'll take your word that you can't, but if you can fix that, much appreciated. Lancer1289 04:50, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
I think you misread. I said that it was not working on Chrome. It's not working because the image attribution class isn't applied to a <div> tag, so your selector isn't being applied, since it doesn't match.
Anyway, just delete
/* Hide "Image added by" on articles */
div.picture-attribution { 
   display:none !important; 
And change
.WikiaArticle .picture-attribution {
  margin-right: 0px;
  background: #334;
  position:static; /* don't cut off any magnifying glasses... */
.WikiaArticle .picture-attribution {
  display: none;
  margin-right: 0px;
  background: #334;
  position:static; /* don't cut off any magnifying glasses... */
Technically, the other style rules there are redundant. I only left them in place in case there's a desire to have them be displayed again. -- Dammej (talk) 05:09, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
Ok changes made and it doesn't appear to be working as I'm still seeing it. Also I apparently did misread your comment.
As to the code, I did pull that code from Wikia's blogs on the subject and it seemed to work for some wikis, or at least as far as I saw, but I never went back to see if I got a response to my comment about it not working. I'll be on Community Central looking through that. Lancer1289 05:16, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
Ok it took a second to update, but it apparently works now. Again thanks for sorting that out. "Vanity has no place on (insert wiki name here)" was one of the most popular comments against it on the blogs. Lancer1289 05:18, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Blog comments issue

Hi, I've got problem with 'seeing' comments of all blogs, for example I 'see' only 20 comments on that blog about new squadmates species, but when I go to OP profile it says that this particular blog got 27 comments, but again when I go there, the page says showing 20 recent posts. Any idea why is it happening to me ? Thank you for your time !!

You'll need to find the link to the next page (should be just under the blog post, before the comments). And in future don't forget to sign your comments with four tildes (~). --silverstrike 21:32, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
I don't know why it is only showing 20 for you, but yes it should be right below the box where you would enter a new comment, and above the current ones. Also there should be a function above the new comment box that says "Show all" and that will show you all the comments. Lancer1289 22:04, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
That is not it, it seems to me that those comments are revealed to me in 'updates'(I checked that it is still one page of comments btw, so the issue is not me being blind or stupid)ex.: I could see on previously mentioned blog only twenty comments, while on wiki activity page were still showing up new comments which were 'hidden' to me until few minutes ago

when I could see suddenly 30 comments.--Knoxxie 22:11, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean by "updates" or what you are talking about with the Wiki Activity Page. The last one was over a hour ago so again I'm not sure what you are talking about. Lancer1289 22:18, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
I think I know what the OP is talking about, some blogs work perfect for me, other ones I can see what the blog post had on the RC, but when I went to the blog itself, the actual comment didn't show up, even if it was the latest comment posted. BlackSoulBlade 23:19, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
Well if that is it, then it is probably one of two things. 1) the cache didn't update properly, or 2) just a Wikia catching issue. Man this new skin is still full of bugs. Lancer1289 23:23, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
  • sigh* I miss Monaco. This Facebook look-alike is a horrid replacement. BlackSoulBlade 23:28, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
Trust me, you aren't alone in that statement. Lancer1289 23:34, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
As horrible as the new look is, it has nothing to do with Wikia's caching (or rather MediaWiki caching). --silverstrike 23:37, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
(edit conflict): I don't think it's a caching issue but issue with the server request. Blog comments don't get cached (and if they do, then Wikia programmers should be replaced), it's either the browser using it's own cache instead of loading the page and sending a proper request to the server, or a request timeout that depending on server settings, sends an old version of the page instead. In any case, a proper bug report should be sent. --silverstrike 23:31, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
(Edit conflict)Well whatever the reason, maybe it sort itself out eventually. Man this skin just keeps coming up with problems and more needless things. I really which they would bring back Monaco or do something about it. Lancer1289 23:40, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
The main problem with the new layout is that they rushed into it. No debugging period, no QA, and minimum time for even the basic of feedback - I still find it annoying to find the most basic links to manage a page ('what links here', 'history', and others). --silverstrike 23:45, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
They actually HAD a beta for Oasis, but did Wikia take any of the advise given? Take a wild guess.

BlackSoulBlade 23:57, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

Wow I go to mass and look what I miss.
Anyway, they probably took some advice, but not a lot of it given the reactions they didn't take a lot of it. They finally made some things optional, but even then a lot of people are still yelling, for a complete lack of a better term, over the fixed width, the annoying small top navigation bar, and a number of other things. The staff didn't listen to a lot of very useful suggestions, and while I acknowledge that they can't take everything into account, they clearly didn't take much into account to begin with. Lancer1289 01:58, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I'm kind of conflicted addressing some of what you wrote - from a developer/project manager point of view, one shouldn't follow every suggestion that is given by the community. Most of the time, the existing community want things to stay the same and fear of change, but sometimes that change is necessary and in the long run, will make the community better. I still think that they rushed into it and didn't really listen to anything the community had to say and went against the type of site they manage (you never use fixed width on a content based site). From a user point of view I agree with you that the fact that they made the new layout mandatory (although there was no reason to) is an offense to the contributors that make the site. --silverstrike 02:17, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
But here's the deal, 9/10 people who were beta testers hated Oasis. Did Wikia even LISTEN to any suggestions they had? No. You know they screwed up when most wikis outright left Wikia. Including WoWwiki.BlackSoulBlade 02:34, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Don't get me wrong, I know people don't like change, but since the last change for Wikia was from Monobook to Monaco, I would have welcomed that. Monaco was much better than Monobook, at least IMO. Don't forget that I do know about development cycles and considering they put this through in about a year, IIRC, that isn't enough time for anything. No you can't follow every suggestion, you do have to put your foot down at some point, but at the same time, you do at least read over suggestions and maybe make changes based on them. Maybe sometimes you can't, but you still have to read over suggestions and take them into account. Wikia didn't listen to much and I believe the only reason they made some "new and exciting", more like "new and extremely distracting" features optional was because the community had enough and that they would drive more people away. Many wikis have already chosen to take down those features, including ours, and they also make image attribution optional. One of the most popular comments about that was "there is no need for vanity on a wiki", or something along those lines.
I also believe Wikia rushed into this, didn't think about the content, and they are more concerned with becoming the next great social networking site than actually presenting content. "[They] want to make Wikia accessible to all people" is the main reason they argued and forced fixed width, however they optimized it for someone using 1024*860 (or something like that) resolution! Seriously who even uses that resolution anymore?! The fixed width battle is ongoing and the only reason the lifted it for WoWWiki was "because more people who visit and use the site have bigger resolutions". That is one of the biggest pieces of (redacted) I've ever heard. The real reason didn't escape anyone. They didn't want their biggest wiki to leave, and it did anyway. Ever since then, the staff has been bombarded with requests to increase the size of their content space, and yet Wikia keeps saying no because they "want to make Wikia accessible to all people". Again a complete lie. Monaco didn't have a problem doing that. Lancer1289 02:47, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

(Reset indent due to Wikia's annoying fixed width) Wikia had an idea. A good one, or a bad one - it doesn't matter. They were lousy in implementing it. I actually didn't know you had experience/knowledge about the development cycle - good to know :). I actually never understood what screen resolution had to do with browser window size (which is the actual relevant information) - what brings me to the question what research have they done in regards to finding the average browser width people use? what is the font size most people use? and how limiting the width of the content area make the site more accessible? I agree that they didn't comment on what contributors request and just repeated their mantra that stupidly narrow is better. Even if I agreed with them on the narrowness of the article page (which I never will) it will never explain why the same width apply to talk pages and why third of that width is dedicated to advertisement. Now that I reread my comment, I notice that it's pretty much a rant and an agreement with what you said. Oh well... --silverstrike 03:13, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Now I'm really trying hard to set an example but I may not be able to contain it much longer with regards to the language policy. I'm also going to indent a few things.
They kept sighting some "studies" that say that fixed width is better for reading and that well...fixed anything worked better. However they never produced those studies so it didn't take long for people to catch on that there were no real studies and they were just throwing more stuff at us to say that "the new skin is the best thing in the world and we don't give two cents what you think".
As to the actual fixed width of the pages, they said that they pulled information based on browser size fo people who visited Wikia and found that many of them used smaller browser sizes. That didn't sand for too long as many people commented that they use quite larger sizes. However the staff kept saying that it is the best interests of Wikia itself. Yeah guess how long they have been using that excuase and how long they will keep using it.
They said that WoWWiki was getting a larger skin because more people with larger screen resolutions, and therefore larger browser windows, used it, which also didn't stand for long and was torched by the community as favoritism. Northing more or less than that. And I completely agree with that.
As to the sidebar, they said that it isn’t only for advertisement, they said that more "new and cool" features would be coming out for the right sidebar. "Yeah Right" was the general response along with "it is intrusive", "takes up way too much room", and "it leaves a lot of empty space". There were repeated calls for the ext to wrap around it, and the staff said they'd look into it. Me thinks they never will as they just don't listen to anything anymore.
As to making the site more accessible, the only reasonable argument they came up with was that it makes designing pages easier as many people don't know what will happen with different resolutions, which does affect browser window size. They say it was a problem with Monaco, yet no one complained about it, nor did anyone when it came up again. Many people said that the people how have problems are ones with outdated monitors and small resolutions, and they made up an extremely, EXTREMELY small percentage of visitors. But Wikia chose to cater to those people over everyone else who has larger resolutions.
As to basically ranting and agreeing, I really don't care, you were asking questions and I'm happy to pass some information along. I don't have all of it for two reasons. 1) They never released anything about their so called "studies" that said fixed width, fixed text and everything else was a good thing. 2) because I don't want to dig through over 5,000 comments about it.
There were a few users, about 20 or so, that said they liked it, and everyone did give them respect saying generally, "Well I don't, but I respect your opinion and just because you like it doesn't mean they should force it on all of us." Also one of the "ads" they used on the Wikia home page was promoting the skin by a user with just 2,500 edits. There were plenty of comments asking if the staff wanted opinions from users with over 10,000, 20,000, even 50,000 edits.
The bottom line is, that they did what they want, made up information, and didn't listen to the Community, many of them also had good ideas about the new skin and what could be done about it. Also here's some of the beta information from one of the Staff blogs:
Over 475 users participated in the private beta and over 200 of these users joined in the discussion on the private beta forum. The forum generated almost 300 topics, with a total of 1804 posts and the in-page feedback tool received over 1500 responses from both private and public beta. From a blog by Wikia staff member Susan Taylor.
Now that is an extremely small beta population based on the size of Wikia isn't it? Whatever they learned from it they either didn't do, take to heart, or disregarded most of it. They did make some changes, but they were small, almost irrelevant, and inconsequencal in the grand scheme of things.
For the vast majority of the community, it became apparent that Wikia didn't listen, nor was ever going to listen, doesn't care, or take any advice. The staff has gotten blasted by people ever since the new skin was mandatory, and most of the comments are negative, about frequent bugs, about features clashing, which the staff just repeats "ADAPT", even though in almost every case is means making pages longer, harder to read, or even worse, content gets cut.
Frankly it seems that the staff rushed into this with no thought about really polishing it, and working on it as the time goes by. Now don't get me wrong, there are a number of features that are good, but then there are some that are a disaster, needless, and completely worthless. However the staff should have taken more time, gotten more responses, and done more work before forcing this on people. I know this is a wall of text, but I thought I should be as through as possible while trying, and probably failed, to repeat things. Lancer1289 03:58, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I agree with you about almost everything apart from the studies about short lines are more readable then long ones - there are several studies (I have no idea how thorough they are and where to find them, but I did ran into them - I'll try to find something in the W3C's AA or AAA standard) that describe the effectiveness of shorter lines. Those of course don't apply to wikis and other content based sites. I actually doubt that their decision is based on such a study, most likely it is based on saving room for their ads. Apart from that I agree completely. Their big mistake (or at least one of their biggest mistakes) is taking the autonomy from each wiki, they should of left the final decision to the wiki community - maybe on some wikis the change is welcome. --silverstrike 04:51, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Yes I have come across some wikis saying that the new skin is better for them, but most of the wikis are the opposite. The autonomy issue is something that was also something that was hit upon, and something that Spart especially has noticed, and bugs him. Moreover, frankly it bugs me too. There is now even more space for ads and no matter how the staff tries to spin it, they are still getting hit by it, but they aren't doing a good job of spinning it to begin with. So yes I would have to agree that it was one of their biggest mistakes, if not the biggest as it drove many, highly prominent wikis to different sites, or to self hosting. That resulted in a number of conflicts between site staff, like Spart and myself, and the Wikia staff. Some conflicts resulted in bans, loss of admins, b'crat, and rollback rights. It was some nasty business, especially on the Simpsons Wiki.
As to the studies, if you can find one, then I'll be more than happy to read it. I would prefer to be more informed on things like this as I do read quite a bit, books, I don't have an e-reader and I don't intend to get one any time soon. What was it Kasumi said, "[t]here's just something about the felling of paper under your hands." Or something like that. Plus it's easier on the eyes. Lancer1289 05:40, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I'll find the time to search for a proper research. I made a simple google search and found a couple of pages that are part of the AAA standard - but they only suggest making lines of 80 characters or less (nothing regarding pixel width). Sorry to hear about your and spart conflict with Wikia I also read your comment regarding them not replying to your inquiries - I hope it's nothing serious...
On a different note, I will soon recreate Wikia's "new-and-improved" stylesheet to make it look as closely as I can to the old Monaco (I mentioned it a while ago just before they implemented the current layout, but due to my HDD crash *sob*, I had to take a leave of the wiki - this discussion is a good reason/opportunity to restart the project), when it's finished it I'll post the result for whoever is interested. --silverstrike 06:05, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
It's more of an annoyance and an inconvenience for me, and Spart probably feels the same way, maybe more maybe less, but that's my opinions on the subject. There are some comments on the Wikia staff blogs from both of us, mainly me, but I wouldn't recommend digging through that as there are about 2,000 comments on that blog alone. His talk page has some more as do a few of my blogs about the Wikia updates. I believe that he expresses his opinions about the new skin in no uncertain terms.
As to your HDD crash, by sympathies as I just got over one myself with my desktop. I mainly use my laptop for the wiki and internet browsing. However I lost about 25 hours worth of school work and I had to take an incomplete in one of my classes because of it. I am working to recreate it, but it is tedious. Not complicated, but tedious. Lancer1289 06:16, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I completely agree, the New Look is pretty awful. If it was an improvement, it would've made sense, but Monaco did just fine. They didn't need to change for the community, so it was obviously changed for Wikia, so they can become a big social networking site, as was said earlier. Did you know Halopedia left wikia over this? Arbington 06:42, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Halo, Simpsons, WoW, and a number of other prominent wikis left. This just caused a big fight, and in the end it will probably do is draw a very big line between the community and site staff, and the Wikia Staff. Some of the ones who left came back, but most are staying away. However, all Wikia is doing, in many opinions is trying to turn itself into a social networking site. You know how we have talk pages, well one of their "great, new, and exciting", gag, features is that instead of talk pages, you comment on the article, LIKE A SOCIAL NETWORKING SITE. Don’t believe me see the the Glee Wiki. Now I ask you is that social networking, or supporting content?
Now I wish I could find it, but one of the staff said somewhere that they wish talk pages would go away all together as they saw them as "unproductive". They said commenting is better than talk pages as it gets the community involved. Well sufficed to say, they got blasted on that. Also did you know that new wikis have default commenting, not talk pages and that they have to contact the Staff to get that changed. Now the staff I talked to in the wake of all this said they don't have any intent to turn off talk pages, but they did say they would support both systems for now. Frankly it is obvious to many that Wikia is trying to become a social networking site, nothing more or less, and they aren't doing a good job of hiding it. Wikia used to be about providing content and informative wikis, but it seems that went down the toilet with this "new and improved skin". Lancer1289 07:07, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Unproductive?! Talk pages are where half the "production" on a wiki takes place! I said when the New Look came out that it really rubbed me the wrong way, but truly the dislike hasn't softened over time. Wikia making it mandatory is the real issue. If it were optional we could've just stuck with Monaco. I don't even like social networks... Arbington 07:22, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. Lancer1289 07:24, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Comments? On article pages? Really!? I think Wikia missed the point completely - probably due to near bankruptcy that threatened them a while ago. Don't get me wrong, if they could find a (good) way to upgrade the collaboration on a wiki, even if that means getting rid of talk pages, I'll support it - as long as it really improves the effectiveness and not just a pseudo social networking concept. --silverstrike 08:17, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Just one thing to osay to that: Indeed. Lancer1289 17:20, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

Please Redo Adept Guide Change

Please redo this change:

The previous text is wrong. Adepts do have an ability that control protected enemies. The previous text makes it sound like shields are a significant weakness of Adepts, when in fact they are not (with SMGs).-- 18:21, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

So if they do have the ability to control protected enemies, then why don't enemies with shields/barriers and armor don't go flying around with Singularity? I've seen many, many times where Singularity, Pull, or Reave has been cast, and enemies still move around, shoot back, and it basically does nothing. You will also note that Adepts are bad at getting through shields, and must rely on their squadmates more than other classes for that effect, even with SMGs. So the text is correct and you probably were referring to unprotected enemies as Pull, Reave, and SIngularity only affect those that are unprotected, or do reduced damage against their protections. Lancer1289 18:29, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
I'm talking about Insanity. An upgraded Singularity pretty reliably holds/locks down most enemies with protections. Did you try a Rank 4 Singularity (Heavy Singularity lasts much longer against protections)? Have you tried a team with 2 or 3 SMG/Tempest users? With upgraded SMGs (shield piercing upgrade) shields go down rapidly (even without Disruptor ammo). Geth are no issue at all. (Geth Primes are immune to Singularity though.)
While SMGs are normally not that great against health, the increased rag-doll damage due to getting sucked into the singularity makes them work quite well for finishing off enemies.-- 18:41, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
And I'm talking about any difficulty. Singularity, no matter the upgrade will not prevent enemies from moving, or even shooting back if they have protection. Yes I have tried a rank four of every power; yes I have had three SMG users; and have you tried an adept alone with two squadmates with assault rifles? Adepts are at a weakness against shields and you also just proved my point. Adpets have to rely on squadmates more than other classes against shields, no matter the upgrades to weapons. And you have to realize that we aren't writing those guides just for one difficulty level. They must be written for all of them and note when they apply to one difficulty level over another. Lancer1289 18:46, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
On lower difficulties with enemies having less protections, Singularity only works better.
In terms of squadmates, Vindicator (assault rifle) and Viper (sniper rifle) work just as well as Tempest for stripping shields.
Singularity itself does quite a bit of shield damage while holding enemies (Heavy Singularity something like 3/4 of Overload before collapsing).
If you can't use Singularity to hold enemies, you are doing something wrong. E.g. holding Harbinger:
It works perfectly fine for holding down most annoying enemies, including Geth Hunters, Geth Destroyers, Scions, Harbinger, Krogans... (with full protections). You just need to refresh frequently, the singularity collapses quickly against protections (but holds all those guys longer than the cooldown).-- 19:09, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Yet I still see Harbinger moving and shooting. I believe that is actually a glitch or something becuase I have seen many times Singualrity, or any other biotic power for that matter, cast directly against enemies with protection and nothing. No holding or anything. As to your first statment, see my statement above about writing for difficulty levels. See my statements about Adpets being weak against sheilding and needing squadmates to help with that. Biotics are weak agasint shields and you need to get to level four of anything for them to even start coming close to the same level of effectivness as tech or even weapons. An Adept must rely more on their guns and their squadmates for shields. Lancer1289 19:25, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Harbinger is neither shooting nor using biotic attacks while the singularity is there. He only tries to escape and is sucked back in.-- 19:50, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
Really? Becuase it was clear he was using some type of attack. Lancer1289 19:57, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
You obviously haven't used Singularity enough. Try an Adept run through with heavy Singularity use sometime and you will see that I'm right (stick with Heavy Singularity).-- 20:20, January 2, 2011 (UTC)
No I've used it plenty of times, I have 4 complete playthoughs with Adepts, and one in progress and it has never happened to me. I used both Heavy and Wide and nothing. Lancer1289 20:22, January 2, 2011 (UTC)

A totally random idea

This is just something that surfaced in my thoughts - although I know the wiki is for very factual/accurate information relating to the Mass Effect universe, I was thinking what about a light-hearted page on 'elevators'? We all love/hate them :) Phylarion 19:53, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Ok I'm not sure what you are talking about. Sorry but your are going to have to be a little more clear about what you want. Lancer1289 19:54, January 3, 2011 (UTC)


I'm still new here, not sure how to best contact you.

I have left a message on my Talk page, and on the one for eezo, the second message is likely in the wrong section of that talk page.

Thanks in Advance.

--Praetor Shepard 22:03, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Usually the best way to contact me is about an issue with something like this is to just leave a message on the talk page. I had other things to take care of and I haven't been on for the last hour. Putting this message here says to me that you think I'm ignoring you about something when that isn't the case. Even if that isn't your intent, that is what is comes across as. I will get around to things when I can, but just because I don't respond immediately, doesn't mean that I won't. Lancer1289 22:43, January 3, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks, sorry for that, still not familiar with how the wikia works, I was certainly unsure about where to post in the talk page for the wiki article. You can remove this. --Praetor Shepard 22:56, January 3, 2011 (UTC)

Kasumi: Stealing Memory Undo

I am confused as to why the credit amounts I added to the Kasumi: Stealing Memory walkthrough on Jan 1, 2011 were removed. "unnecessary, nothing else is mentioned" is the reason given (which doesn't explain much to me). What prompted me to add the credits in the first place was that I got to restart the mission from scratch since I couldn't figure out where I was missing 4800 credits from.

If specific credit amounts are generally considered unnecessary, there are other references in the article that should be removed. --Geiger 06:37, January 7, 2011 (UTC)

Becuase it is unnecessary to list every single credit pickup amount. Since I wrote most, if not all, of the walkthoughs on this site, I know that probably a few credit amounts made it in. However that doesn't mean that we should list every single one, nor does it mean we should remove any. Frankly I don't see a need to do either, but I don't see a need to list every pickup amount. That is unnecessary. Lancer1289 07:05, January 7, 2011 (UTC)


I hate how you keep deleting people's hard work without even consulting them. You always say "facts and sources" but do most even need them? Wiki's are meant for other people's ideas. You assholes are ruining placing like this. I've eddited many other sites without this kind of bullshit. -- 06:35, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Wow that was rude and is it really so hard to edit without resorting to using that kind of language? Please do remember that each and every wiki is free to set their own policies, run things their way, and present themselves the way they want to. Just because you have edited on other wikis, or other site, doesn't mean that their policies will carry over to our wiki. Frankly most don't apart from some extremely general policies.
This time your edit was contrary to a democratic process on the Talk:Nihlus Kryik page where that particular trivia item was there before, and then was discussed over, then finally removed per discussion. If you don't believe me, then read the talk page for yourself. In fact the trivia item was there for quite some time before it was removed. If you had bothered to read my edit summary before you came here, you would have seen that and maybe have read over the discussion on the talk page before coming onto my talk page and insulting me and breaking our language policy in the process. Lancer1289 06:47, January 10, 2011 (UTC)


Hi there. Sorry I am new to this site at the moment and am quite lost at the moment at to what I should do.. --Jenny D Shepard 18:00, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Well let's see there is still plenty to do. Some suggestions are looking through Article stubs, clean up an article, add some screenshots, and read through the Community Guidelines and the Manual of Style. Apart from that, just look around and see if anything needs to be done. Lancer1289 19:20, January 10, 2011 (UTC)

Will do sir! I'm Commander Shepard and you have been the best help on this wiki! --Jenny D Shepard 19:51, January 10, 2011 (UTC)


Glad to see not everyone on the Wikias (ME, Halo, Assassins Creed, etc.) are dicks.

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